The Fight for Nationwide Access to Medication Abortion

Need a breakdown of the recent ruling on nationwide mifepristone access at the Supreme Court? Imani Gandy, Executive Producer, Legal Content & Culture with Rewire News Group, co-host of podcast Boom! Lawyered and host of podcast B*tch Listen and Jessica Mason Pieklo, Executive Producer, Legal Content & Advocacy with Rewire News Group and co-host of podcast Boom! Lawyered have got you covered. 

In 2024, the state of Louisiana sued the Food and Drug Administration over a rule change from 2023 that allowed mifepristone to be prescribed and dispensed remotely. Previously, the agency had required the pill to be dispensed in-person at a clinic or other health facility. On May 1, 2026, the FDA’s rule was temporarily blocked, restricting mifepristone access nationwide. Emergency petitions were filed with the Supreme Court the next day, and on May 4, the stay was applied to the block until May 11. On May 14th, the Supreme Court continued to allow patients to access mifepristone.

On Mother’s Day, a website for new and expectant mothers called moms.gov dropped, pushing pro-natalist, eugenicist propaganda.

For more information check out Babes in Bookland: https://womensmemoirpodcast.com/

Transcript

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Jennie 1:59

Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. [music intro] Hi, rePROs. How's everybody doing? I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, I am back from vacation. It was so lovely. My mom and I were in Key West, and the weather was like kind of hot and humid and a little gross. So, we didn't do, like, a ton of walking around just because it was kind of unpleasant to walk around. But I was really hoping for a low-key trip where I could do a bunch of reading and just chill on the beach. So, we did do a lot of that, which was wonderful. And we also took a pontoon tour one day. So, we got to hit the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico. We did like a lap around Key West and then went out to the Mud Keys, and it was just gorgeous. Like the water was crystal clear and like so flat and still. And it would have been really unpleasant to be out there if it wasn't for the fact that like there was a breeze going when the boat was moving. Because man, it was just hot and humid. But it was so lovely. We got to see a bunch of wildlife. We saw a green turtle and an osprey and a bunch of stingrays. And we even saw a pot of dolphins, which was super cool, but even more cool, it was so quiet out. And again, just like the water was so still and flat that we could hear the dolphins talking. Like, you could hear them clicking above water, which was so cool. I had never heard that before, other than like on, you know, watching like a nature documentary or something where you hear them underwater. But yeah, we could actually hear them talking above water, which was maybe the coolest thing ever. So, it was a lot of fun. And I was really able to disconnect. I really avoided most of the news and didn't really look at work. Other than I was reading a book that for an interview I had upcoming. But other than that, I really just disconnected, took time away, read some fun books, and just was able to unwind. I am now still digging out from under a mountain of email, which is not the best. But other than that, it was really wonderful. And it was so nice to get to spend some time with my mom before Mother's Day and just have some quiet time away. And it was a lovely trip. So, I'm glad I was able to do that. But so many things happened while I was gone. But the good news is in this week's interview, we're gonna talk about them. I was able to schedule an interview, like an emergency episode with Imani Gandy and Jess Pieklo with Boom Lawyer, and also check out Imani Gandy's podcast, "Bitch, L*sten!", because it is also amazing. I was able to get both of them for the podcast. So, I'm so excited for y'all to check out our conversation. So with that, let's go to my interview with Jess and Imani. Hi, Jess and Imani. Thank you so much for being here today.

Imani 5:11

It is a pleasure to be here.

Jess 5:13

Yeah, thanks so much for having us.

Imani 5:15

Yeah.

Jennie 5:15

I know it's been so long since we've had the schedule work where we could do all three of us. It's so amazing.

Imani 5:20

Yes, it has been too long.

Jennie 5:22

Before we get started, let's do quick introductions. Imani, since it's been a while, do you why don't you go first?

Imani 5:28

Sure, I'm Imani Gandy at Rewire News Group. I'm the Executive Producer of Legal Content and Culture, co-host of Boom! Lawyered Podcast with my work-wife here, Jess Pieklo, and host of the new podcast, B*tch, Listen!, which is fantastic, and you should subscribe to it.

Jennie 5:44

Absolutely. It is so good. I love it. I'm an episode behind. I didn't get a chance to listen to yesterday's yet, but y'all definitely check it out. You know, I'm a religious listener to Boom ! Lawyered, but also love B*tch, Listen!

Imani 5:56

Thank you. Thank you.

Jess 5:58

It's so good. Jess.

Jennie 6:01

It's so good. People know me, but I'll say hi anyway. I'm Jess Pieklo. I am the Executive Producer of Legal Content and Advocacy at Rewire News Group and co-host of the Boom! Lawyered podcast with my lovely work-wife Imani. And I'm bringing back the Fallout newsletter as well, since there's some court shenanigans afoot. And as folks know, I use she/ her pronouns, and you can call me Jess.

Imani 6:30

Oh yeah. She/her pronouns over here, and you can call me bitch! No, I'm just kidding. You can call me (collective laughs)...call me Imani.

Jennie 6:40

Okay, so we let's talk a little bit about how the Fifth Circuit decided to ruin my first day of vacation. But maybe while we have talked about this case on the podcast before, maybe just like a couple steps back to like how did we get to where we were on May 1st?

Jess 6:57

Sure. How did we get to where we are on May 1st? Well, how far in the loop back would you like us to go, Jennie? Because here's the thing, like, I know. In response to the Dobbs decision, the Biden administration took some steps to make permanent some adjustments to the FDA regs around mifepristone that first originated in COVID— so, like, this goes back—but made them permanent. And apparently the status of Louisiana, the state of Texas, other conservative states, and Justice Sam Alito took this very personally and have launched a campaign against it. Louisiana, among other states, sued, and the Fifth Circuit issued an absolutely bananas ruling that effectively pulled mifepristone temporarily, had it been allowed to take effect, by trying to cancel on its own the FDA rule. And there's a mechanism in the Administrative Procedures Act that allows for that, potentially, maybe that's an open question. Some folks were like, is this a national injunction? Nobody knew. So, it went to the Supreme Court. Sam Alito very reluctantly apparently issued one stay and then a second stay. So where we are, as of right now, discussing this case is that the Fifth Circuit order that would have effectively pulled mife, the rules back to the 2000, and that would have prevented telehealth prescription, required folks to pick it up in person, that kind of thing. That ruling has been stayed while the lower courts still fight this out. And then likelihood of it pipelining back to the Supreme Court, where if they deny the cert petition, then the Fifth Circuit opinion takes effect. That would be terrible, but also sneaky and devious by Sam Alito. If they take the case and hear arguments on the merits, then the Fifth Circuit stay or the stay on the Fifth Circuit decision would remain in place until the Supreme Court decided to do whatever it does at the end of the litigation. So, the Supreme Court kind of stepped in and paused things, but this is very much a live fight.

Jennie 9:00

And, like, [in] the most dramatic way possible, right? Like, I was on yesterday refreshing socials and keeping up, and I'm like, oh, it is now 5:01 and there is no order.

Imani 9:12

Right.

Jennie 9:13

Yeah.

Imani 9:13

Yeah. And we were thinking, like, are they gonna ghost us like they did with SB8? The Texas Bounty Hunter law. Like, that still remains to me one of the most bizarre periods in like my coverage of abortion rights. We have this newly minted law that requires, that allows, just as you know, our friend of the podcast, Andrea Grimes, used to say, "any random motherfucker" to file a lawsuit if they think that someone's had an illegal abortion.

Jennie 9:44

Yeah.

Imani 9:44

And the state says, we're just gonna hand over all of our enforcement power to just people, you know, just people in the world, and we're gonna stay out of it. And it just confounded the courts— or they pretended that they were confounded by it, which is more accurate. But like, well, what do we do? Like, who can be sued? You can't sue the state, you can't sue the Department of Health, you can't sue the AG because they have no enforcement power. So, you know, I guess we're gonna sue every single clerk who's going to be the person that I mean, it's just it was completely bananas. And when people were like, hey man, Supreme Court, you gotta take this up and shut this shit down because it's crazy. The Supreme Court just never took up the petition. Nine months. Like, the abortion was banned in Texas nine months before Sam Alito got around to first leaking the opinion and then publishing it officially. So, I really- it could have been another one of those situations where it's just like the court's ghosting, just doing whatever. Like, the Fifth Circuit order takes effect and the Supreme Court doesn't say anything. So finally, what was it, like 5:15? That Jess texts me, like, you know, it's not ghosting anymore, right? Because I was busy like trying to write a video about how the court had ghosted us. So, it was just chaos. And they love chaos, right? Like the whole point of this nonsense is chaos because individual people think that they are not allowed to take mifepristone when really this is an agency fight about how agencies are going to change the rems or not change the change the rems, and thereby providers have to decide whether they're gonna say, fuck it, we ball, and continue to provide mifepristone, and then whether or not the FDA is gonna start pulling people's licenses for that. Like, it's just chaos and it's a ladder and it's the point in this situation, I think.

Jennie 11:39

Yep. Well, and even just thinking through like the reporting, right? Where you would hear people talking about like medication abortion and not just like being real specific about like one medication, one of the protocols was what was at stake.

Jess 11:54

Exactly. And I think, you know, to Imani's point, the chaos is part of the point. There was also, you know, we have two actions by the Supreme Court in this case. And I think that it begs the question why did war two required? There was an initial stay and a self-imposed deadline of Monday that was then extended. What is the court doing? Apparently writing two dissent, but also a switcheroo in one of the FDA commissioners while the anti-choice movement has been clamoring for this switch because they believe wholeheartedly that the agency has not been moving quickly enough on its complaints that are completely cooked up around the safety of mifepristone. They're saber-rattling with the EPA about whether or not mifepristone is in our water supply and turning amphibians gay. Like, the amount of stuff that is out there that people are putting pressure on the administration around abortion, it's a lot. And so, I think, you know, what is at stake right now is we've we've got like a tinderbox moment here because the court's decision, it's not really a decision, the court's action, effectively kicks this issue right now back to the Trump administration. So, what can the Trump administration do if it wants to here? It can start prosecuting people under the Comstock Act. That's what Justice Clarence Thomas was, you know, arguing for in his dissent of the second stay. Are we gonna see an actual Comstock Act prosecution after midterms, perhaps, right? The FDA could finally act on its quote-unquote "safety review" that it's doing right now that uh they they've been ordered and act, you know, unilaterally there as well. EPA can also act. So, the Supreme Court did a couple things here. It bought itself some cover, I think, personally, from like all the smoke that it's been getting from a hell of a term, like undermining democracy in every way, shape, and form. And it's only May. And it's May, I know, right? Like, we have we are gonna have to talk about the fact that what we can take a vacation in June now, apparently. When did that happen here? But okay, so, that's happening. Now, also, the Trump administration can kind of just cool its jets if it wants to on this stuff until the midterm elections and then let all, you know, hell break loose. So everybody gets to sort of tamp down. It's the question of how the aunties will respond. I can tell you from the initial press releases, they are not happy right now. So, I think there's still gonna be a lot of pressure on the administration to do something from that side, even if the court thought maybe it was, you know, bringing the temp down a little bit there. I don't know.

Imani 14:46

I mean, it's like you said, this new Kyle Diamantas guy. You said I think in new newsletter or your new old newsletter, the Fallout, and just you told on Slack that Kyle Diamantas guy is basically, you know, the auntie's dream when it comes to going after mifepristone in a way that [Marty] Makary wouldn't. And I think I would be remiss if I didn't point out that he's like a just an attorney, like Florida man who has no medical experience and goes turkey hunting with Donald Trump Jr. Like this is it's like, and was already on the phone with people being like, yo, I got you when it comes to mife. So, you were about to say, Jess...

Jess 15:28

Oh, I was just gonna say, no shade to the lawyers there, but I a hundred percent believe this is a man who has had an advertisement on the back of a bus stop. Oh, 100%. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like one of those benchside ads that's like, you know... Yeah, yeah. It's anything. Have you been injured by DEI? Call me. [Imani laughs] I'm sorry. It just, I wouldn't be surprised.

Imani 15:53

Yeah, I mean, precisely. And also I think what's important to read up read into Alito's dissent because we know how his dissents become majority opinions, like going all the way back to when he was a third circuit judge and wrote a dissent in Planned Parenthood v. Casey and then waited, you know, 30 years before he could finally make that dissent law. In Louisiana v. Calais, his descent in Allen v. Milligan, three years prior, became the majority opinion in Louisiana v. Callais, basically telling Southern Black voters to go fuck themselves. So, it's like... am I allowed to curse? I don't know. I didn't, I should have... too late. Okay. Too late! Let's re-record quick, bleep it out. So, I think we need to look at what it was he was saying about how it's essentially "a sovereign harm" to Louisiana that, you know, "abortionists" in New York and the "radical left abortionists" in New York can mail mifepristone to Louisiana, to people in Louisiana, in violation of Louisiana's own abortion ban, right? Like, we sent abortion back to the state so that that states could decide for themselves. And then here come these radical leftists who are, you know, as Louisiana literally said in its Supreme Court filing opposing this stay, blanketing Louisiana in mifepristone.

Jennie 17:20

That is so wild.

Imani 17:21

Like, it's just everywhere. It's falling from the sky.

Jess 17:24

If only. If only!

Imani 17:24

And so, he's complaining about these shield laws and signaling to people, like, this is your argument, right? It is a sovereign harm, and it makes it impossible for Louisiana to enforce its abortion laws. And the full faith and credit clause says that states have to enforce acts of other states, and what is the anti-abortion law if not an act? And you know, there are arguments for why that full faith and credit clause argument doesn't hold water, but I would have to spend 20 minutes talking about procedure. Meanwhile, aunties have, it's just not fair. New Yorkers are "killing our babies," right? So it's like Jess talks about this all the time about how the right is really good at picking and choosing cases to scaffold shitty law on top of shitty law, like with the buffer zone case, right? The "plump grandmas." Like, that's just sort of what these people do. Meanwhile, our side, we are right on the law, right? And we are right on procedure. But if we don't have a good story to tell, then you know, "New Yorkers are killing our babies" is the story that's gonna win out. And Sam Alito is basically saying, that's what you need to argue, and I'm gonna be with you. Yep.

Jennie 18:41

The buffer law one is one that always, like, sticks out to me because our office is, like, right behind the Supreme Court. And so often, if I'm in the office and there's something happening at the court, I will go and join the protest or whatever. And one day, I was coming back, this was maybe a year after the buffer law one. It was a one of the birth control cases, and I had a folded sign, and I was trying to take one of the shortcuts instead of going all the way around the block. And the guard was like, no, you're protesting, like you you have a sign you need to like walk around. And I'm like, I am, like, not even close. I'm not, like, up on the building, I'm on one of the paths. Like, what the hell, man?

Imani 19:25

Mm-hmm. Yeah, the Supreme Court.

Jess 19:26

Yeah, but that buffer zone for the court.

Imani 19:28

Yeah, exactly.

Jennie 19:29

You have to do the external sidewalk.

Imani 19:30

They get a buffer zone, but... yeah, totally.

Jess 19:33

But yeah, there's a lot of signposting in what happened this week from the court. And I think it's good to, you know, take the reprieve and to use the time to bolster resources and support providers and folks who are making sure that mifepristone can get into the United States and distribute it as it as it needs to, but we cannot, like, sit back and think that this is, like, the Supreme Court did anything good here. The Supreme Court did the bare minimum to maintain the status quo and respond to a completely out-of-pocket opinion by the Fifth Circuit, which is notorious for going rogue.

Imani 20:16

Yeah, yeah.

Jess 20:17

But like, you know, anytime you can get iffy without potentially go without potentially having to go out of the way or go in person or whatever, it's a good thing. And you know, stockpile it. You know, if there ever was a time to stockpile it, now might be the time.

Jennie 20:34

Yeah, this is one of those I think the anti-abortion movement knows, but I think a lot of the general public is not may not quite understand like the boon telehealth has been to ensure that people are still able to access the care they need because we don't have the clinic infrastructure for like all of those in-person appointments. Right. Right.

Speaker 2 20:58

And it's just a you don't need it. Like, even if we could, I could wave a wand and like magically create 500 or let's say 5,000 new standalone clinics across the country immediately, fully staffed, all of it. Making people walk into a clinic to pick up pills is just disruptive for everybody. It's disruptive to the providers, it's disruptive to the patients, it's disruptive for the people who are getting other more, you know, invasive or comprehensive services at that particular clinic. And that's they know that. That's the point. Like, these, it's an ancillary TRAP provision, and that's why they enact them.

Jennie 21:49

Oh my god, I totally forgot about that.

Jess 21:51

You can really haul ass, is basically what she said. Yes, I forgot about that one. Oh, the good old days of the Fifth Circuit. And but this is actually what Imani and I are joking about this. This case and the way the Fifth Circuit behaved in it very much harkens back to those like early abortion fights in the Obama years where it was the Fifth Circuit doing something completely uh bananas and on a Friday and everybody kind of scrambling, being like, What do you mean the Fifth Circuit just did what? And it like it almost felt nostalgic to have a really, really bananas abortion rights case drop on a Friday from the Fifth Circuit, literally, you know, creating law kind of whole cloth and like, you know, just really going for it. It was like 2010 all over again.

Speaker 22:50

Misty watercolored memories.

Jennie 22:56

Okay. I feel like I would be missing a giant opportunity. I know we're mostly gonna talk about the mife case today, but I we can't not talk about moms.gov and "underbabied." Like we just can't not.

Speaker 2 23:09

No. Where do we start with "underbabied" really? I mean, you know, again.

Jennie 23:17

Where do they come up with this stuff?

Speaker 2 23:19

Look, their creative team is at least creative, right? Moms.gov, you know, dropping on Mother's Day of all, you know, times as well, is well, first of all, it has nothing to do with moms. It has everything to do with pronatalism and eugenics, which go hand in hand. And yeah, it's a, I would not be putting any personal information into anything on that site whatsoever. I would explore it under a private browser, even. But really. What we're seeing is [that] the Trump administration is beholden to the right on this issue of fertility, whether it's really in relation to the anti-abortion movement, whether it's, you know, in relation to these sort of like techno fascists that have really embraced pronatalism and sort of this "futurism" around AI. And some people don't have to work, and some people don't have to exist at all, is what sort of is the, you know, logical conclusion of that framework. And we're terrifyingly see it now get played out in very real ways in public policy because we can make fun of moms.gov as a as a completely ludicrous and out-of-pocket website, which it is, but it's also directing funding to anti-abortion "crisis pregnancy centers." It's supporting programs that will drive people who have had children out of the workplace because there will not be the kind of support to allow them to enter back in. We're seeing it at a time when families of queer folks are under attack more than ever. And so anything that this administration that's putting out there that is about babies or families or any of it is suspect to say the least.

Imani 25:10

And on top of that, I was just reading yesterday that I know Deloitte was one, but there was big company. Yep. They're all downsizing their paid. I think it was Salesforce, maybe. Downsizing their paid leave for families. So it's like they're trying to push women out of the workforce 100%. Like, you know, gotta get them back to having more babies. Because we are "underbabied" after after all. And of course, this isn't like the babies of Black and Brown children, right? Like, those aren't the babies that these people are concerned about.

Jess 25:40

And I mean, I know it's kind of like, you know, ha ha ha, we're joking about it, but it is important that we're having the "underbabied" conversation on the heels of the case attacking mifepristone access, because it's a direct pipeline from attacking mifepristone access to talking about being "underbabied" to coming after hormonal birth control that allows women to control their fertility in the first place. That's a straight arrow.

Jennie 26:06

And I was gonna say the new like funding app notice the funding opportunity for Title X for what it's gonna look like next year, which is not a family planning program.

Jess 26:14

No. No. So, I think I would be remiss if I didn't use this opportunity to drag traditional media a little bit because I've seen so many stories and headlines from places like the Washington Post, from CNN, that's, like, the Trump administration's been pretty hands-off on abortion. I don't know what all the big deal was. And I was like, have you been under a rock? Yeah. Right. Right. The only thing that hasn't happened is Congressional Republicans passing and putting on the president's desk a national abortion ban. And that's because they're numpties, they're scared, they're chicken to do it because they know nobody wants it except their base, and that that causes all sorts of problems for them. So, what are they doing? They're letting the agencies do it, they're letting the courts do it right now. But that's not not coordinated action. Right, right.

Jennie 27:09

Like, we know there's still more stuff coming, right? Like, there was like the global gag rule that happened. You know that there's gonna be some sort of domestic version that is just waiting to drop.

Jess 27:19

Yeah, I mean, you know, I really feel like we are gonna see a tremendous ramp up as soon as the midterm elections are over. Yeah. It's gonna be one of the only things that the conservatives will focus on and we'll see a narrative shift around it. And again, I think Sam Alito is signaling how some of that will go. This will turn into a, you know, the "Gavin Newsoms" of the world are "trafficking drugs for Big Abortion." And it's not fair for you, people in X, Y, and Z states. And we will see some Democrats start to go soft on that. It already popped up in the debate this week in the California governor's race and Democrats there. Like, you know, Democratic AGs are gonna have to be very, very clear where they stand in relation to protecting patients and providers in their states because the gloves are off.

Jennie 28:15

Again, there's always a thousand and one terrible things. Okay, so I always like to end with not everything's terrible, but maybe ways our audience can get involved. So at this moment, with so much happening, what are some of the things the audience should be thinking about?

Imani 28:31

Court reform. Like, I just keep seeing, you know, politicians posting this pablum on Threads and other places about how Republicans are doing this and Republicans are doing that. And I'm not seeing them talk about and say, and that's why we need massive court reform, right? So honestly, I think that your your listeners can start pestering their representatives about court reform because they're we're not getting anything progressive through this Supreme Court. Like it's just not happening. I saw Liz Warren say the the other day that we need to cut, not she didn't say codify row, but we need national protections. And I'm like, why? So they can just get struck down by struck down by the Supreme Court? We are in an era where these six people have the most power in the country. Yeah. And that's not right.

Jess 29:26

So, agitate for court reform and, Jennie, you'll probably anticipate what I'm gonna say, and dig into your local communities. Now is a time for really leaning into community building as deeply and richly as you can. Community is an antidote to fascism. One of the reasons why this administration, conservatives, its supporters work so hard to keep us agitated, upset, and isolated is because they also know that community connection is the antidote to fascism. So be kind to yourself and your neighbors and build those networks. And that's how we get through this.

Jennie 30:01

I will just add finding out what the policies are in your state. Yeah. So many people do not know what the laws look like in their state. So, check out our 50-state report card. It looks at a wide range of sexual and reproductive health issues. So because it's all interconnected, right? We talk about abortion and birth control a lot, but we also need to be talking about what sex ed policy looks like, the Medicaid cuts that are happening. There's so many things we need to be thinking about, and they're all interrelated.

Jess 30:31

They absolutely are. Nebraska is undergoing a terrible experiment right now as the first state to enact really strict work requirements related to Medicaid and disability advocates in the state are rightly very upset and concerned about what this means for folks there. There's some good coverage of that in places like the Flatwater Free Press. But those kinds of policies, with, you know, when we're- when we've got Iran and we've got the Epstein files and we've got the, like, everything, nobody's talking about work requirements for Medicaid beneficiaries anymore. And, you know, that's those kinds of things are drastic.

Jennie 31:08

Well, Jess, Imani, thank you so much for being here. It was so wonderful to have both of you on. I'm so glad we found a time that worked for everybody.

Jess 31:15

Yeah. Thank you, Sam Alito.

Imani 31:18

[laughs] Exactly. Yeah, it's a pleasure always.

Jennie 31:23

Okay, y'all. I had so much fun getting to talk to Jess and Imani about the mife case and about moms.gov and being "underbabied," which ew. It was so wonderful to talk to them. Absolutely make sure to check out their work at Rewire News Group. That means checking out Jess's newsletter, The Fallout, Imani's standalone podcast, B*tch, Listen! Subscribe to both of them. They are wonderful. And also make sure to check out Boom! Lawyered. Seriously, y'all, I am not a lawyer. That is where I turn to get all of the legal repro news. I never miss an episode of Boom Lawyered, or honestly, B*tch, Listen!, even though I was behind when I recorded. But yeah, make sure to check them out. And I will see everybody next week. If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.org, or you can find us on social media. We're at rePROs Fight Back on Facebook and Twitter, or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and want to make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you want to make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all.