Bonus Pod: Moving the Needle with Art and Activism

Art and activism intersect! Shannon Downey, full-time art activist, author, and educator, sits down to talk with us about art and activism and her new activism handbook for artists, crafters, and creators, Let’s Move the Needle, providing a how-to manual for using artistic skills to contribute to community building. 

Shannon learned how to cross stitch as a child. As an adult, doing work around gun violence and immigrant rights, Shannon leaned on cross stitch during moments when she felt politically fatigued. When she participated in a weekend art show that fundraised $5,000 dollars for art classes for survivors of gun violence, the intersection and importance between art and activism became very clear. 

For more information check out Babes in Bookland: https://womensmemoirpodcast.com/

Transcript

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Jennie 1:59

Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice. Hi, rePROs. Welcome to a special bonus episode of rePROs Fight Back. I'm your host, Jennie Wetter, and my pronouns are she/her. So y'all, you know that I have been doing a lot of crafting recently, particularly cross-stitch. I said I did that big project for my mom, which note to self, finally mail it to her. I need to get I need to do that today. So hopefully I will remember now to finally send it her way. She turned one of the first ones I did recently into a pillow. I'm working on a new project right now. And so it's been so nice. It is something to decompress at the end of the day or over the weekend while I'm watching comfort TV or movies. Most recently, I've been re-watching the X-Files, which has been a lot of fun. I hadn't seen that in a very long time. So it has been such a joy to dig into that again while I'm working on cross stitch. And honestly, it goes perfectly with the one I'm working on right now. Um, and we'll make sure to include pictures of some of the things that I have finished and I'm currently working on on our socials. So make sure you are following us in all the places. We're at rePROs Fight Back everywhere except for Instagram, where we are @reprosfb. So, make sure you are following there and you'll see some of the great things that I am working on. So, but art is more than that, right? Like it is more than just relaxing, it is time to think, it is a can be activist, and you can do so many activist-related things, whether that's the message you put in it, or a group of women coming together working on projects. That is how policy has been advanced in many places, with women talking about their concerns and what needs to be done to fix them. So, with all of the things happening, Supreme Court getting ready to give its end-to-term decisions and just all of the current chaos, we thought we'd do maybe a little bit of a more fun episode. So, joining me today is Shannon Downey, also known online as Badass Cross Stitch, to talk about crafting and activism and all the things. She has a great social. Make sure you are following her everywhere, but also make sure to check out her store or her free patterns. I downloaded a bunch of patterns from her. I am going to be buying a couple cross-stitch, completed cross-stitch from her. I haven't just narrowed down which one I want yet. So that's why I haven't done it yet. Maybe I'll do that as soon as I finish recording. That I am very excited to have. And we had a really fun conversation talking about craft and how this is can be an activism activity and how to use crafting for activism. It was so much fun. I hope you enjoy a bit of a lighter episode. And with that, let's go to my conversation with Shannon. Hi, Shannon. Thank you so much for being here today.

Shannon 4:56

It is my pleasure.

Jennie 4:57

Do you want to take a second and introduce yourself before we get started?

Shannon 5:01

Sure. My name is Shannon Downey, but on the internet I'm known as Badass Cross Stitch. My pronouns are she or they, and I'm a full-time art activist, author, educator, all the good things.

Jennie 5:16

I am so excited to have you on. We're gonna be releasing this during like when all the horrible SCOTUS decisions will be coming down. So it'll be nice to have like something a little more lighthearted show up in the feed at that time. So I'm I'm really excited for that. So, I can like go back and listen and remember happier times.

Shannon 5:35

I look forward to being the palette cleanse.

Jennie 5:39

But also to prepare for this, I was like playing around on your website this morning and I was like, oh, I need to buy that. And I already downloaded a couple patterns. Like I was like, I'm very excited. So maybe let's talk a little bit about what you have. Yeah.

Shannon 5:55

I was listening to the last podcast that you just released, and you were talking about your cross stitch, and I was like, oh, she's a cross stitcher! I didn't even know.

Jennie 6:04

I know. So, I think my grandma taught me how to do it when I was like pretty young. And so like I remember doing a bunch when I was little and then like really stepped away for decades and like haven't done it. And something last year, I just I do a lot of I used to do more knitting, but like when it's hot out, I don't want like a project like on my lap or like whatever. So I decided to pick up cross stitch again and I found the the like stamped kits because then I don't need to have like such hyper focus and I can like watch TV while I'm doing it, and so it has been a real delight to rediscover.

Shannon 6:46

Yay, brilliant. So happy for you.

Jennie 6:48

But yes, like I said, I downloaded a couple uh projects from your site that will be actual, like having to sit and do the counting. So we'll see how my patience holds. It's true. I do make the count. I mean like that. Well, I just have to pay more attention. That's fine. I can pay attention.

Shannon 7:08

I believe in you.

Jennie 7:10

I survived doing this one for my mom that was like cardinals, like in snow, so it was like a lot of white variation, and so like I was like getting like I just need this done because I'm bored. I need something like more colorful and fun because this is starting to just, like, kill me.

Shannon 7:27

Which is why I moved away from cross stitch, because I was like, oh, this is so slow and time consuming. But I have a friend who's a exclusive cross stitcher, and she is so fascinating because the back of her her cross stitch she designs separate. So, like, she'll the front will be what it is, right? But then when she gets to those large color blocks where she's just like, I'm so bored, she stitches them in a way so that the back has this really cool design. She's a magician, and every time she shows me a piece, I'm like, Yeah, I don't care about the front. Flip it over, let me see. So that's how she entertains herself those like blocks of color where you're just like, ugh, I can't.

Jennie 8:10

Okay, so you're not doing cross stitches much now. What are you doing?

Shannon 8:13

Mostly just embroidery. So, like the you know, all the other stitches. I like the freedom of embroidery versus the grid and counting, it's all very serious. So I like the freedom of embroidery.

Jennie 8:26

I love watching those videos, and I'm sure at some point I'm going to make the leap because I keep being like, this looks so beautiful and fun.

Shannon 8:34

Yes, come to the dark side with us.

Jennie 8:39

Well, let's talk a little bit about activism and art because I know that's something that you have been doing a lot of.

Shannon 8:45

Yeah, that's kind of exclusively what I've been doing. Similar to you, I learned how to cross-stitch when I was a kid, and my fifth grade teacher taught me, and I was forced to make a pink bunny with a blue eye. And I was like, bunnies aren't pink, they don't have blue eyes. This is stupid. But I did it, and I was like, Here, mom and dad, this is for you. And then for 20 years, I did not stitch again. And then 20 years later, I'm running a digital marketing company, I'm connected to a device 24-7, I have no good ideas, I hate everything. And I'm on Etsy, like, maybe I needed to do something analog. And I come across a Captain Picard cross-stitch pattern, and I was like, oh, be still my heart. Nobody loves Captain Picard more than me. Star Trek is my jam. I think I remember how to do this. So I bought the pattern, I stitched it, I had the best time. I forgot I had a device for like two hours. The next day I had like three good ideas, and I was just like, oh, snap. Yeah. Like there might be something to this analog digital balance. And then quickly moved away from stitching other people's patterns and was sort of like, well, you know, I'm doing all this work around immigration rights and gun violence. I live in Chicago, so there was a lot happening around gun violence in Chicago at the time. And so, I had a bullet come through my bedroom window while I was sleeping. And that same week there were like six mass shootings, and it was just it felt like real heavy and all-encompassing. And so I just I stitched a gun because I was like, I've never even held a gun. Like, I have no connection to this tool that is being used everywhere in all of these destructive ways, and I just wanted time to think about it, and so I stitched a gun, and then of course I had a lot of thoughts, so then I started writing those thoughts down, and then I went to Instagram as one did back then, and I was like, here's a you know, snappy photo of this gun that I just made, but here's all my thoughts, and then people started engaging in the conversation around it, and I was like oh , shoot. People started to say, like, hey, will you make that a pattern so that I can stitch a gun? I want to stitch a gun. I'm like, yeah, okay. So I make a pattern, and then hundreds of people are stitching guns and tagging me in them, and I was like, Oh, more guns. I wasn't quite what I was going for. So then I was like, Well, what are you all gonna do with these guns that you've stitched? And they're like, Well, I don't know, and just felt like you know, I wanted to do this. And I'm like, Well, if you send them to me, I'll do something with them. I don't know what yet, but I feel like there's something here, and so then, like, at that point, it was like 3,000 people sent me fiber-based guns from all over the world in like a two-month span. And I was like, Oh shit, now I really have to do something with these. And so I'd been working with this nonprofit that works with young people who are victims and perpetrators of gun violence in Chicago and teaches them glass blowing as like both a therapeutic tool and an entrepreneurial tool. And so I was like, why don't we do an art show together and like try to raise money for your next semester, because they had just started and they were like, okay, yeah. So, local gallery gave me their space and we put up a huge art show for one weekend only. The young people from that program brought in their glass to sell, and there were so many people there. We just got hundreds of people to come to this little art show, and then we sold every single piece and raised over $5,000 and was able to fund their next semester. And so that was a real moment for me where I was like, there is a fusion here that I never ever ever would have thought of, but snap, this is like I need to explore this further, and so since then have just like full force, like, how do I use these tools of art and creativity in support of and aiding and abetting all of the activism that I'm doing, you know, unrelated to art, and then just started to like teach workshops and bring people together, and then I was like, oh my gosh, this is an amazing community organizing tool. I'm getting people who would never be in a room together, I'm getting them together, I'm tricking them into learning embroidery. I'm like, I'm gonna trick you into hanging out with me and I'll teach you how to embroider. But actually, it's not about embroidery at all, it's about having hard conversations with strangers. And so then all of these people are having these conversations about things that they would never talk about with strangers in this, you know, safe but uncomfortable space while they're learning to embroider. And it just it I never like if I had planned it, it never would have happened. Like, it was just me following the breadcrumbs until we got here. And then, of course, now like my whole goal is to train up as many people as possible so that they can be doing this work and thinking about ways to use their creative practices as tools of activism. So, I wrote a book for them on how to do that, and so it's just been magical and honestly, never saw it coming.

Jennie 14:11

Well, first, let's talk let's talk about the book real quick because, like, great opportunity to reach some new people who maybe haven't heard about it yet.

Shannon 14:18

Yeah, it's called Let's Move the Needle, but it's an activism handbook for artists, crafters, creatives, and makers. And it really is, it's not a craft book, so don't think you're getting like stitch patterns or anything. It is literally a how-to manual for organizing, for bringing community and building community, and then for like creating campaigns and using your creativity in ways that support movement and community building.

Jennie 14:50

I have really loved the way I've seen crafting really infiltrate like all of the spaces I am in. I think it was the the Tampa Bay Abortion Fund had like giveaway packages like enter, you know, for a hundred dollars, you can be entered to win this or entered to win that. And you know, I probably would have given the money anyway, but like, oh, there's this cute little cross stitch thing that I maybe could win. So, like, sure, I will bump up to the hundred dollar level. And it's brilliant and it says oh, it's so cute. "Feminist killjoy." And there is nothing I love more than like cute floral something with like sweary. I mean, this one isn't sweary, but like totally sweary, yeah.

Shannon 15:41

Yep, live for it.

Jennie 15:43

And recently I just had one I saw a friend gave to somebody who was making pottery, like ceramic little cats and like like pink, like doing them pottery and like for a donation of X, like she would send you one, or you could go pick up one. So obviously, I have two cats, so I had to donate so I could get two of them, and like I just love this like creativity that is coming into all of these spaces that is doing good. Yes, same. Yeah, just so much fun. Let's see. Is there anything that you are working on right now that you are excited about?

Shannon 16:21

I mean, I'm excited about everything I'm working on. I am working on one of the bigger things. So I just wrapped up International Analog Day, which is something that I invented because I was just like we need this was in February, it's gonna be the last Saturday of February from here on out. So, every year we can celebrate together. But I felt like, especially, you know, at the beginning of the year, I was like, man, people need something to look forward to right now. There is just like I just something. And we need to be, I feel like a lot of people come to me and they're like, well, I, you know, I want to bring people together too, and I want to like do like host a crafting event, but like, I don't know, I don't know where to start. I don't like I feel overwhelmed by it. And I'm like, well, I did write you a whole book about it, but that's okay. So I was like, you know what? I think people need is they need to be set up for success, and they need the experience of doing it once where they don't feel like they did it al they're having to do it alone. So, I thought here's a reason, right?

Jennie 17:32

Like, here's this day.

Shannon 17:33

Yes, exactly. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna invent something. And so I decided International Analog Day is the invention, and I was like, where it's literally just there's no rules, it's just you're not on your you all agree to not be on your devices for however long, and you come together to do something, and it can be two people in your living room, and it could be a hundred people at your church in your church basement. Like, I don't care, it's just whatever you can put together and however you can bring people together and agree that like we're analog for the next two hours or whatever. So I got a little organizing committee from my Patreon crew. We're called the Joyful Menace Society, and so we worked on this for you know about eight months to create like a full toolkit so that everybody would feel like they knew exactly what to do and just spread the word. And so we hosted our first international analog day on that last Saturday of February, and it was an astounding success for us. Like we were like, if we get 10 people to host events, like year one was a raging success, and we had over 50 in seven different countries. That's awesome! It was incredible. We I hosted one here in Chicago at Maydell Crafts, and you know, partnered up with some other local crafters with rad work and cool audiences and communities, and from 11 to 4, we were just like stop by, hang out, and make stuff. And folks came at 11 and stayed till four, like it was incredible, and nobody was on their phones or devices, everybody was there were puzzles, there was crafting, there was DnD, there was you know, art giveaway, it was just everything. And so it was like it was so fun, and I can't wait to do it again next year and like just see the growth because so many people after they saw it online or whatever, you know, because it was like, yeah, you can like- I told everybody at the beginning, I'm gonna take two minutes around noon to document and then I'll stop. So there was something to share, but then we also had Polaroid cameras, so we were like documenting, people were sketching the scene so that we were able to share that digitally later just to let people know that it's a thing and they should participate with us. So that was like the last big thing that I wrapped, and now I'm planning an art raffle for October to support States at the Core, which is an amazing nonprofit that has been leadership roles across the country organizing against ICE and authoritarianism. And so, I'm putting together one hell of an art raffle for their sort of a last like end of the year campaign, basically. So, there's been a lot of organizing around that to get just some of the raddest art possible for for that.

Jennie 20:39

That is so amazing. I this is so fun to hear about. I love the like building in-person community, like you have also this great online community that you're building, of people then building in their communities. Like it is so wonderful because so often doing I mean, even crafting, like you just feel like you're at home doing your thing. So you you kind of lack that sense of community, or even being in all of these various fights around issues we care about. Like if you're staying online, you're you're kind of missing that sense of community. So, it is so wonderful to see you bringing all of those pieces together.

Shannon 21:15

Yeah, I mean, for me, it's like I just like I just want to model what and everyone is capable of doing, right? So, if I'm hearing from people: I really don't have community here, I don't even know where to start. I'm like, well, it can start with three people at your library. So let's talk about that. And so that I mean, International Analog Day was a direct, you know, I'm just gonna model how to do this. I'm gonna give you all the tools. We're all gonna do it together, but separate because you're all in your different places, you know. But we had like online Zooms where we did office hours leading up to it so people could talk through some of their fears or barriers, or just like ask questions, like, what would you do if? And then we did a report out after so people could come in and talk about what went really well and how successful it was, and like what challenges they faced, and like help them realize that like nothing's gonna run perfectly and smoothly, and that shouldn't be a barrier, that's just a learning curve. That's just like next year you'll make these three tweaks and it will be so much smoother, right? Right. So for me, it's just like how do I help people figure out how they can do this work in their communities and how they can have these leadership roles because it's not about me. It's about like, here, let me show you, and now you go do. And like stick around because I still, you know, I want to hear about this, I want to see pictures, I want to post it, you know, to my community, but at the same time, like you got this, go do.

Jennie 22:54

Yeah, it's already like has me thinking in the back of my head of like, ooh, maybe I should be looking for some fun little projects I could start working on for fund a thon for next year to like have like people showing me what they donated, and I will send them whatever little piece of art was for that level.

Shannon 23:10

Perfect, yes. See, it's working.

Jennie 23:14

Oh, now it's like added to the list of things to do. No, I'm telling you, but it's like fun and relaxing, and like it is really I don't know, it's something I look forward to now, and like having some quiet weekend time to sit and work on the project, especially now that I'm finished one with the one that was like so much white.

Shannon 23:32

Yes, yeah, it's so good for you too. And like in a space with strangers where you're sort of like you know, in my workshops, I don't tell I don't give people patterns, I don't tell people what to stitch because that pink bunny made me believe that I hated cross stitch, and I don't. So I'm like, I never want the content to get in the way of the medium, and I'm not here. To tell you what to care about. Like, that's not my role. I like you can clearly know what I care about just through my work and what I support and how I talk, but I'm not here to tell you what to care about. So everyone's welcome in my spaces. But what's interesting is you're at a table, you're with other people, you are coming up with your own design, and it's, you know, the invitation is always something that you care about, something that you have an opinion on, something that you want to think deeper about, or you know, and so all of these folks like are making pieces that are deeply personal and usually very political or socially relevant. And then you're sitting at a table with these strangers, and we don't know the politics or the beliefs of the people at the table. But because you're embroidering, like you're working on your own thing, but then you have time where things are just quiet and you're working, and so conversation naturally starts up. Nobody's sitting at that table quietly. And you can start to have these conversations. Like the other day, somebody was working on a piece around adoption justice, and everyone at the table was like, I've never even heard those words together. Can you like would you feel comfortable like sharing like a deeper understanding of what this means or why this matters to you? And it led to the most gorgeous conversation I've ever seen. And it was just because you know, embroidery slows everything down, right? Including you. And so there isn't that like intense intensity that comes when you're sitting across from somebody and you're like, we're gonna talk about abortion.

Jennie 25:41

Yeah.

Shannon 25:41

You know what I mean? Like it's just it's not that your head is down, you're sort of working on your piece, so there's that body language that that can be triggering is gone because you're not even looking at each other. There's no expectation that you stay in that conversation because everybody's just like, well, you're working on something. So if you go quiet, it's because you're you're concentrating, and so it gives everyone time to sort of like, oh, that was sort of triggering to me, or like I've never considered that before, and I can go back into my work without it being rude, and I can think more, and then when I'm ready, I can get back to this conversation or ask a follow-up question, or not, right? And it's it's just how a craft circle works, and so once I started to see that, I was like, oh my god, we could solve all the world's problems with like 30 women at a craft table.

Jennie 26:37

Like, come on, that's so great. One of the things I forgot to mention, like looking through your art, I realized that you were probably from Illinois, but didn't realize you're from Chicago. While I live in Washington, DC now, I was born and raised and am from Beloit or outside of Beloit.

Shannon 26:54

You're my people. [chuckles]

Jennie 26:55

Small world.

Shannon 26:58

Yeah. I've been in Chicago 22 years now, I think. I'm originally from Boston and then bounced around a bit. And then once I landed in Chicago, I was like, oh, this is where I'm supposed to live. And I love Chicago, it's such a great city, it's such a great city, yeah. You know, except for the winters, but...

Jennie 27:21

Correct. Also, it felt weird when I like first moved here and didn't have like the same type of winter.

Shannon 27:30

Yeah, I lived in Miami for a few years and I was like, what is this? Like it's I it's a beach day literally every day of the year. I don't know what to do with this. I did miss the seasons terribly, yeah, very much so.

Jennie 27:43

I mean, we still get some here, they're just a little different. And spring and fall are generally a little shorter, but I don't know. I do miss the Midwest. But yeah, thinking of the crafting makes me think of my mom is one of 11 kids, and her and a couple of her sisters get together. They used to do it like once a month. I think it's kind of trailed off a little bit, but they quilt and they would get together like once a month and would have like a project they they found that they wanted to work on together, or they would get this advent box from the Missouri Star Quilt Company that they would do together. And like I just I always found that so joyful and fun.

Shannon 28:26

That's so sweet. Yeah, the quilt communities are serious business. Yes, serious business, those quilt guilds. I love them. I love to watch. I'm not a quilter, I have made quilts, but I was like, oh, this requires too much precision and like attention to detail, and I'm just not that.

Jennie 28:46

So, my grandma used to always say, why would I buy good fabric just to cut it up?

Shannon 28:52

You're like, because you can make it even cooler when you cut it up and then put it back together different.

Jennie 28:58

She did a lot of crochet, so she taught me to crochet at one point that like is long gone, but she did crochet, she did doilies, like the lacy style ones. So, my mom has a bunch that grandma did, and apparently my my aunts had learned the hack that my mom never learned was that you could take them back to her and she would re-starch and stretch them again for you. Fantastic. Mom was like, wait, what? I didn't know you could- that she would just redo that.

Shannon 29:30

I have several hundred doilies because I go to a lot of estate sales and I buy up all the old textiles that are handmade.

Jennie 29:39

Uh-huh.

Shannon 29:40

And so, the other day I was what I don't know, I was on TikTok, and there was some person throwing doilies down on like a black t-shirt and spraying them with bleach to like you know put the design on the t-shirt. And I was like, well, shit, I have some of the coolest doilies that have ever been made. Like, let me let me see if this works. I have made a whole new wardrobe, my friend, out of these bleached doily t-shirts, and it, you know, all it did was make the doilies extra white, right? So you can just keep reusing them. But now all my black t-shirts have magnificent doily designs on them, and so I'm just on this like quest to find all the ways that I can use my doilies in unexpected ways.

Jennie 30:23

I've also just been really loving, I never got sucked into the craft side of like Instagram or any of that, and slowly it has been like infiltrating, and like I really love the lady who do you have the one who does like the lampshades? It's like ace ace of shades or something, and so she she gets like the cage for like the the lamp and like makes these like fancy old style lampshades with like folding and like sewing like applique on them or embroidery, and then has like the fringe and like they're beautiful. I don't know that it goes with like my aesthetic that I would ever actually buy one, but like I've I can just it takes me back to my childhood of watching the painting guy. Why is my name? Yes, and like I can just sit and watch that stuff for so long. There's a girl doing a tapestry, crocheting a tapestry, like that has been also just delightful to watch. Like, she designed it and is now putting it together, and the stuff is like magic. Like, I just find like watching things come to life that people are working on is magic.

Shannon 31:35

It is, it is. I've been obsessed with so my friend Jen La Mastra just completed her senior or graduate master's thesis at the School of the Art Institute, and she has been making these absolutely massive um tufted rug art pieces that are all like her body, but her like in multiples, and like it's her screaming, I mean, it's her naked, like it is like each one, and and they're all like raging feminist pieces, and they are watching her make those. I've just been like texting her. I'm like, I know you just posted on Instagram, but like, will you send me another one? Like, I know you're working on it right now. They're incredible. So I just yeah, I love watching people make. It's so comforting.

Jennie 32:29

Yeah.

Shannon 32:29

I love having people in a room where I'm teaching them how to make something new, and they're just like, wait, this isn't hard. I'm like, no, it's not hard at all. Embroidery is not hard. I can teach you in 20 minutes, like you can be making a masterpiece.

Jennie 32:43

And like that barrier of thinking, it's hard. Like I do baking, and like I started watching Great British Baking Show, and then was like, I'm like, I can't do like the cakes and pastry. I live by myself, my office was small, like I can't make cakes. Like, I will just eat the cake, and like that, I don't need to just eat a cake. So I started making bread, and like that was the like, this is hard and complicated, and like I can't do it. And so, like breaking that barrier, or like, oh, I'm scared to try bagels, and like, and then doing it, and you're like, okay, it's not that hard, it's like technique, but not like super complicated.

Shannon 33:21

Yeah, this isn't like I mean, you can get really good, you can become a professional baker, you can become a professional embroider-ist, but you also like it's not that serious, you know what I mean? Like, sit down with me, and in 20 minutes, you'll be making something that you're super excited to hang on your bathroom wall, and like great, or you know, give it a couple months, and then you've got something that you can donate to a silent auction or to a fundraiser or to whatever, or just gift, and yeah, I don't know. I I think everybody needs to be making right now to stay sane.

Jennie 33:56

It has been so nice, like you know, watching whatever I just started rewatching the X-Files, so like I have that on in the background, and I'm like working on my project, and um, it's been delightful.

Shannon 34:09

I watch so much TV while I stitch because I used to do podcasts and or like audiobooks, but I realized that I never look up, and so um my vision was literally going, and so I thought, well, if I have the TV on, it's automatically gonna make me keep looking up. Yep. And that's been the solve. So I've watched everything on every streaming platform there is. I'm done. I finished it all.

Jennie 34:35

I don't know what it also made me realize I think I need bifocals.

Shannon 34:40

Oh, yeah.

Jennie 34:42

I like I can't I wear glasses, although I'm not wearing them at the moment, because it I've started to notice that I've always been nearsighted, so but I could wear them all the time and it wouldn't bother me to like go between reading or my screen and like a distance. But when I started working on the cross stitch, I was like, this is okay, and I had to take my glasses off to be able to do it because the distance was bothering me.

Shannon 35:10

There's a part in every workshop where I'm like, this is usually the part where we learn that we either need to update our prescription, change our prescription, or get a prescription. So welcome. Like, and I always joke, I'm like, I should partner with an ophthalmologist and just have them come with me to every workshop because they would have so much business. I know, right?

Jennie 35:34

That and then the finding the- I didn't have like good light where I was sitting, so like looking for like a better solution. I got one of those like around the neck ones. Yeah, because my mom was like, you could just get like a head thing, and I'm like, no, but that's where my glasses go. Like, I can't put that on my head because I need to put my glasses down if I want to check the TV.

Shannon 35:53

Yes, that's so real. That's so real. Aging while crafting.

Jennie 35:59

I know.

Shannon 36:00

So fun.

Jennie 36:01

And then it was really fun to combine my mom's art stuff and mine because I the first thing I did this year or last year was like a small Vango. That was like the first thing I bought was like Van Gogh sunflowers that I did a cross stitch of. And then my mom's like, well, I can turn it into a pillow. So then she like quilted the back and it's now a pillow. That's fantastic.

Shannon 36:23

What a lovely collab. It was nice. I do that when I go to estate sales when I'm buying up the old textiles, like it's they're usually like you know, napkins and table runners, and they're all you know, florals or fruits or little girls, but they've been hand stitched and they were hand stitched in like the '30s, '40s, and '50s, and I just want to like honor that. But I also I always say, like, I'll hang one of the textiles in my studio and I'll just spend some time with it. Like, I'll just leave it there for a couple days or a week till it speaks to me. And I always ask it, like, what did you want to say that you couldn't say because of the time? And then eventually, at some point in the next week or month, depending, it will just come to me. And I'm like, okay. And then that is what I, you know, so I stitched that in the middle of the piece and you know, hope that the ghost of stitchers past is down with it. But there have been there's been a few times where I'm like, I think I know what you wanted to say, and then I would start stitching, and I would be fighting it so hard, like it would not be working, and I'm like, oh, okay, you didn't want to say this, and so I put it aside and I wait till the next you know thing comes to me, and then every single time, the second time I start stitching, and it's so easy, and I'm like, okay, all right, I figured you out, but that's so good. So I just you know, like to collaborate with ghosts.

Jennie 37:57

That's so delightful.

Shannon 37:59

It's just fun, and it's like somebody spent you know 40 hours stitching a tablecloth so that their family could have a beautiful piece of art to like eat off of. And to me, I'm just like, god damn, I would never do that. That's such a beautiful gift, but like I would never do that, and so I never, you know, I because I'm buying them for like five cents, 25 cents at these estate sales, and you're just like that's just gonna get thrown out if it doesn't sell here, and so I have a closet full of them that I'm just constantly pulling from because I'm like, I can't leave them, you know?

Jennie 38:39

Yeah, oh, that's so delightful. So I feel like this whole episode has been about how I generally end my podcast, which is like, what can the audience do? But maybe I will still let you do that so that you can be more specific and talk about your book one more time as well.

Shannon 38:58

Yeah, okay. Well, read my book. Get it from your local library. I heard that you are an audiobook person.

Jennie 39:07

Yes.

Shannon 39:08

I am too, and I read the audiobook, and I have to say, I felt very proud of myself, and it was a really fun experience. So if you want me to read you my book for seven hours, you can also get the audio version. But beyond that, I want everybody having some sort of creative or artistic practice, even just a little bit every day. Just it doesn't have to be good, make it weird, but like do it for yourself and for your mental health. And then if you can find ways to do it in community, like just a little crew getting together at a coffee shop or the library, and everybody's working on what they're working on, but you're doing it together, like I've that is so healing. And then find ways to bring that creativity and that that art and craft into your activism and into your daily change making practice because it's just such a beautiful fusion, and I just think it has an exponential impact.

Jennie 40:08

And remember to have fun with it, and find the variety that works for you. Like, I grew up loving to draw, but it was one or paint, and that was one of those things that really flared my protect my perfectionist trait of like this doesn't look the way I envisioned, which is like its own set of different complications, but like, and so I quit doing it, which is fine because I found these other things that I enjoy doing. So, like, if you're like I don't want to do this because this is frustrating, maybe it's a different thing that is is a thing that will be the area to work on, and there's so many different things you can do and play with, and so many like intro toolkits out there now, um, or yeah, YouTube series or whatever to learn how to do things.

Shannon 40:58

In my Patreon last year, we did it was just an exploration of like other mediums, and so I brought in experts across every medium and was just like, teach us something so that people can decide if they're into this.

Jennie 41:15

So fun.

Shannon 41:15

And it was so fun to watch like this one woman. We did basket weaving, and this one woman you know made this basket and she did a beautiful job on it, and the next day she entered it in the county fair because she was so proud of it, and the and she won blue ribbon and was just like it's my first basket ever. I can't believe this. And I'm like, well, clearly you've found a new jam, so get to it. And she's been weaving ever since. And I'm like, this is what it's about. Just like play around, so fun, and then find your jam and lean into it.

Jennie 41:51

Oh, I love that. Oh, it seems like a just like the perfect place to end is to like find your thing. You never know.

Shannon 41:57

It's true, it's true.

Jennie 41:59

I hope everyone does. Well, Shannon, thank you so much for being here. I had so much fun talking to you today.

Shannon 42:05

Yeah, it was a pleasure, and I can't wait to see what else you stitch up over there.

Jennie 42:09

Okay, y'all. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Shannon. I got so inspired talking to her, y'all. I have big plans for a fund a thon for abortion funds next year. I will be doing cross-stitches, giveaways for people who do donations. I that is my plan. Hopefully, I am I am able to do enough and have a good stockpile ready for fund a thon. But yeah, I hope it inspires you too to find ways that you can use your creativity to get involved in more activism. And with that, I will see everybody for our regularly scheduled episode next Tuesday. If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com, or you can find us on social media. We're at rePROs Fight Back on Facebook and Twitter, or @reprosfb on Instagram. If you love our podcast and want to make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you want to make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprosfightback.com. Thanks all.