Pregnant People Deserve Safe Care; Doctors Deserve to Provide It

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that protects the right to emergency healthcare, including abortion. There has been, post-Dobbs, a clash between these federal protections and states with abortion bans. Amani Echols, Senior Policy Analyst for Maternal Health at the National Partnership for Women and Families and Ashley Kurzweil, Senior Policy Analyst for Reproductive Health and Rights at the National Partnership for Women and Families, sit down to talk with us about this unleashing of chaos and confusion around whether and when emergency abortion care is permitted. 

In many states, patient health must deteriorate to an extremely risky state before qualifying for the “health exceptions” to abortion bans that are in place. In addition, hospital closures are occurring around the country after Trump’s recent One Big Beautiful Bill Act (OBBBA), and for those who have emergencies in rural communities, that is extremely dangerous. For women of color who often experience dismissal or de-prioritization in medical settings, the pain, stress, and complications are often exacerbated. 

Abortion restrictions will no doubt worsen the maternal health crisis in the United States, which has the highest rate of maternal deaths of any other high-income nation. Black and Indigenous women are more than three times as likely to die from pregnancy-related causes than their white counterparts and are even more likely to experience morbidity or severe maternal morbidity related to their pregnancy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome to Repros MyCat, a podcast on all things related to sexual and reproductive health rights and justice.

Jennie 0:10

Hi, Repros. How's everybody doing? I'm your host, Jenny Wetter, and my pronouns are she, her. So, y'all, it has been a week. I am recording this on July 2nd, um, because you know I'm gonna be gone for the holiday weekend, and by gone I just mean not working and not touching any of my recording equipment. I'm not actually going anywhere, but like, so that means it is still the week of all of the terrible Supreme Court decisions. It is so effing hot in DC. It is gross, and you just like don't want to be outside, which is fine. I it's not like I want to go down near the mall or anything this weekend anyway, so it's fine. It'll be a cozy weekend inside, dealing with a bajillion and one flyovers. There, it's just like never-ending. It sounds like this weekend is gonna be pretty miserable with so many flyovers, and then the fireworks, like, center. Literally, she was sitting next to me this morning. It's been a bit of a traumatic morning for them. Um, my fire alarm in the building went off. Everything's fine, it's just you know, building fire alarm. And so that like made them panic. And then, like, she just came out and got settled next to me, and then there was like a series of flyovers, and the look she gave me of like, seriously, this what is happening? And then she had like an emotional support paw that needed to be on my arm the rest of the morning. She was she was a little traumatized by all the things, so she is not looking forward to the fireworks, and Luna will probably live under my bed because she really hates fireworks. So they are not looking forward to this weekend. But yeah, it has been a week with all of the things. The Supreme Court was wild. We will have a full conversation talking about letting trans girls play sports. That was a horrifying decision. And if you think it's just about trans girls playing sports, you're not paying attention. This is going to open so many more doors to get rid of transgender rights that this is this is really like bad. It is bad. Um, so we will have a conversation about it in the next week or so to talk about why this was such a bad decision and what the implications are. And just, you know, we just need to be very firm and strong and not to allow this to become okay, right? We need to be firm in saying that trans rights are human rights. We need to stand with our trans brothers and sisters. We need to lock arms and stay in this fight together. We can't let them try and peel us off by saying that, okay, sports bands are fine, or this other particular thing is fine. We need to stand 10 toes down on all of this and not give up any ground. So, yes, Tuesday was a terrible decision day, and we need to take a minute and regroup, but we do not keep stop fighting. We need to keep in this fight and ensure that we are there, that we show up and fight for these rights. We cannot let the anti-rights community continue to marginalize the trans community. Yeah, we need to stay in this fight for the long haul. And it's gonna be the long haul. And remember that we are stronger together. We cannot just fight for abortion rights and repro rights. We need to fight for all of it together at the same time. So just we'll do a deeper dive in that. But that's just my head, my head has really been focused on that, and my heart has been hurting for my trans friends and colleagues who are it's it was a bad day, and you know, we need to go on and be there for each other. Okay, so like that has been weighing on me clearly, but we'll talk about it more, and you know, also even just thinking of I mean, there were so many bad decisions, we're not gonna talk about all of them, but just I I think the other one that is getting a lot of like credit for being a good decision is the birthright citizenship case. And and yes, it is better that birthright citizenship stands, but it is pretty horrifying how close it came to going down. Like it is so simple and foundational to think that they they almost had the votes to get rid of birthright citizenship is just horrifying and just just crazy. I I can't believe, I can't believe that. It's it's wild to me. Yeah, so there's just a lot this week and the heat and just a lot of other things going on, and I probably haven't talked about this on the podcast, but like my inbox has been just like an absolute dumpster fire, like most of this year. Like I just it fell behind during the report card season, putting the report card together, and then I was on vacation, and it was like trying to catch up, and it was like all these other things that were trying to be done, and it was just so much, and so my inbox like never recovered. And I was finally like, I need to just block off the time and just only deal with my inbox, and y'all, the the weight that I didn't know I was carrying, the stress on my shoulders that I just immediately felt lifted when I cleaned out my inbox and got it to a more manageable place and where like all the the junk is gone, things are in folders where they should be. Like, oh it seems so stupid, but it was so big for me to like get it back under control. So it has just been a lot happening. Yeah. I think with that, let's turn to this week's interview. I am really excited about it. We are talking about the attacks we are seeing on emergency access to abortion. And we had two wonderful guests come on from the National Partnership for Women and Families. We had Ashley Kurzweil and Amani Eccles come on and talk about the impacts of these attacks on access to emergency abortion and also talking about what that means for maternal health. Um, so it was a really great conversation. I hope you all enjoy it. So let's go to my interview with Ashley and Amani. Hi, Amani and Ashley. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much for having us, Jenny. Yes, it's a pleasure. Before we get started, would you like to take a second and introduce yourselves? Uh let's go, Amani, first.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yes, my name is Amani Eccles, and I'm the senior policy analyst for maternal health at the National Partnership for Women and Families.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

I'll jump in next. So great to be back. My name is Ashley Kurzweil. I use she, her pronouns, and I'm the senior policy analyst for reproductive health and rights at the National Partnership for Women and Families.

Jennie 7:15

So I'm really excited to have y'all on to talk about the attacks we're seeing on emergency access to abortion care, but I also feel like we were recording this the week after the Dobbs anniversary, so it felt like maybe just a good time to just like give a little space for reflection on four years post-DOBS. Like, what where where are you at right now? I feel like I'm in lots of places, but I'll let y'all go first.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

I am just filled with both anger and conviction on this anniversary, and I really appreciate the chance to talk about the attacks on access to abortion care four years post-DOBS because anti-abortion extremists are targeting abortion access on every front to make it more difficult for pregnant people to get the reproductive care they need. And at this point, post-DOBS, it's just undeniable that the anti's will go to any length to ban abortion nationwide, even when our health and lives depend on it. And we see extremist politicians and judges stripping people of their reproductive freedom and at the same time making pregnancy more dangerous by enforcing abortion bans and gutting our healthcare system. So we have to put a stop to the political interference into reproductive health care because it is threatening our freedom and our very lives. And you've just teed us up perfectly to have this conversation, Jenny, because so many people have been forced to continue pregnancies that are non-viable or that put their own health in jeopardy, and we have just seen harrowing delays in emergency abortion provision and fatal denials of care. And on this anniversary, it's so important to take account of where we are and carve a better path ahead.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

And I would love to jump in actually as spot on. And something else that I'm thinking about is that it's really hard to also have this conversation in this moment without naming the recent congressional and administrative attacks that compound the impact of jobs right now. So, most notably, access to abortion care is going to be even harder to access due to the passage of the One Big Beautiful Act, which is about to, you know, be a year from when it was first passed on July 4th of last year. And that package strategically cuts the federal Medicaid program after the midterm elections. And this will leave so many people without health care coverage and will strain already struggling hospitals and clinics that will make it hard for them to stay operational. And both of these outcomes will no doubt limit or completely cut off people's access to reproductive health care, whether they have Medicaid insurance or not. And this is really concerning because we know that when folks have restricted access to reproductive health care, including emergency abortion care, as we'll mention and talk about later in this conversation, it just puts pregnant people in more of harm's way. And we have seen post-dobs data come back time and time again showing that abortion bans increase the risk of maternal mortality or more and morbidity, and that these harms are exacerbated for black and indigenous birthing people who already bear the brunt of the maternal mortality crisis in the US.

Jennie 10:49

Wow, this couldn't have gone better if I had planned it, because this is exactly like Ashley teed me up thinking about something else, and you led right into it. Like this is also not stopping at abortion, right? Like we are seeing the attacks on birth control, and all of the people who were saying they will never overturn jobs are like the same people who are now being like, they're not actually coming for birth control, but like there are lawsuits happening in the lower courts around birth control access. There is this complete redoing of what the Title X program is, and we haven't talked about it on the podcast yet, but don't worry, y'all, there is an episode coming in the coming weeks where we are going to talk about it in the forthcoming lawsuit around it. But it's basically saying, like, the National Family Planning Program is actually going to not be a family planning program anymore. And so, again, attacking people's ability to control their bodies, decide if when and how to be pregnant. So, even before they're banning birth control, it's gonna make birth control harder to get. And all of these things happen in the context of this maternal mortality crisis, particularly for black women and indigenous people that we are seeing right now. And this is all the same conversation, and we need to talk about it all together. And I'm so glad we're going to do that today. And Ashley, I feel like you had something to add. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I just wanted to add that I think that it's so important for us to keep in mind, especially on the fourth anniversary of the Dobbs decision, that abortion is life-saving and it's also life-affirming. And we're obviously going to talk today about how critical it is for people to have access to emergency abortion care to stabilize medical conditions that endanger their health or their life, but focusing solely on medical emergencies can create a false sense of hierarchy of who's deserving of abortion care. And so before we dive into our conversation more fully, I just wanted to raise that I think that our movement and our leaders can hold space for people who have abortions for a range of valid reasons as they plan for their futures, and that we can expose the abject cruelty of anti-abortion lawmakers, and we can work together to ensure that all people can make the reproductive health decisions that are best for them and actually get the care that they need because ultimately these policies are designed to control women and pregnant people and by extension their communities by policing their reproduction and their autonomy. So we have to fight back against all of these attacks together. And I think it's important to foreground any discussion around emergency abortion care and those kinds of principles.

Jennie 13:43

Oh, so important. Like this is the harm reduction conversation we're having right now, right? We want to make sure that everybody who needs abortion is able to the dream, right? Like you have access, it's close to you, it's affordable, if not free, you can easily go in and get an appointment, you don't have to travel long distances, it's close, it's with a doctor you know and trust, or provider you know and trust, or they the world where you can go and just access uh medication abortion in a pharmacy, you don't need to go to a doctor and can self-manage, right? Like all of these things. Right. We need to have all of it, but we also really need to fight for ending the harm that we are seeing right now at the same time. We can't let the let that part go while we are fighting for the better world. Yes. Okay, so I guess that brings us to the big bad. What are we seeing around the attacks on federal protections around emergency access?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

I can dive in here first. Uh, and I think it's so important for listeners to understand what's at stake in these legal battles and why government interference into reproductive health care causes existential harm. So, what's being targeted here is the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. I'm gonna refer to that as Emtala, and Emtala has required US hospitals for 40 years to provide treatment to stabilize people in medical emergencies, and that includes abortion care. And that is because abortion can be the treatment necessary for complications in pregnancy like severe preoclampsia and ectopic pregnancies, and there's been a major clash between these life-saving federal protections and then many states' post-DOB abortion bans, particularly bans that lack exceptions for when the health of the pregnant person is at risk. And this conflict has really unleashed chaos and confusion among patients and their doctors around whether and when emergency abortion care is permitted. And even though federal laws like mtala should override state abortion bans, some states are defying mtala, they're defying these federal protections, and instead they're blocking doctors from providing emergency abortion care. So, like Jenny said, we saw a flurry of litigation between states and the federal government under the Binan administration first, that made it all the way to the Supreme Court. And it's most important here to note that the Supreme Court refused to actually settle the question of whether federal law requires hospitals to provide stabilizing abortion care. And then the Trump administration refused to fight to defend emergency abortion care protections. So where we are now is that a hospital in Idaho has taken up the fight and sued the state for failing to enforce emergency care requirements, but that case is still playing out in court. And in the meantime, Mtala is still the law of the land. We still have these federal emergency abortion care protections on the books, but there are open questions about whether the Trump administration is enforcing it. And providers still need clarity about the circumstances that allow for emergency abortion care provision. And this ambiguity is really putting pregnant people at grave risk. We've seen people in medical crisis that have been turned away from hospitals and they've been forced to beg courts for emergency abortion care to save their lives. And unfortunately, far too many people have experienced preventable deaths, preventable health complications, and it's tragic.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself, Ashley. That was great. And the other thing I would like to emphasize is that the attack on these federal protections and the ambiguity that Ashley mentioned for providers really creates a chilling effect and impacts providers wanting to work in certain states because if you're not sure if you're going to be able to provide the full spectrum of reproductive health care, especially in emergencies, it's going to, as a provider, make you pause because you also don't want to get into legal troubles. And so that's another piece that I would emphasize, as well as naming that in the event of a severe pregnancy complication where abortion could be needed, that is the much safer route. Like pregnancy is inherently risky, and people need to have options to all types of care when they need it.

Jennie 19:00

Yeah, I mean they're basically playing a game of chicken with people's lives, right? They're like, How bad has your health gotten? Are you close enough to death for us to give you this medically needed procedure? Like it is horrifying, and and people are dying. And a number of states have been like, actually, we're not gonna measure that anymore. So that way you can't don't have the data to talk about the harm we're causing. Okay. What other barriers to emergency care are you seeing?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

That is such a great question because there are so many obstacles that patients face when they're seeking emergency abortion care for years post-dobs and more than a year after the Republican budget cuts. So I think focusing on how state abortion bans, with their so-called health exceptions as well as hospital closures around the country in the wake of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act are really important to underscore because these two obstacles really threaten access to abortion care in emergency situations. And I want to emphasize that full stop. Exceptions to abortion bans don't work, and they were never meant to. Exceptions in these laws were designed to create this impression that abortion bans are less cruel than they actually are, and and designed to inoculate against charges of misogyny and extremism. But we know the anti-abortion extremists are cruel, and exceptions are difficult and if not impossible to qualify for, and they fail to really account for what the clinical realities of emergency situations look like. So, in practice, exceptions for both the health and the life of the pregnant person have really proven to interfere with providers' ability to offer the standard of care, which leads to patient suffering, because, like you said, Jenny, their medical condition has to deteriorate to a point of extreme risk before meeting this nebulous exception and actually getting the emergency treatment that they need. And even when states try to quote unquote clarify exceptions and assure doctors that they won't be punished for providing emergency abortion care or miscarriage care, there is still uncertainty that persists among providers and pregnant patients. And that's because abortion and pregnancy are just too complicated to legislate, and abortion bans take away access to all the pregnancy care that people need. And that's just again one side of the equation. Another really important obstacle that I mentioned that I want to dive into. Is the hospital closures in the wake of Trump's budget cuts that are complicating access to emergency abortion care. And I think that it's important to emphasize where this care is actually being delivered. So patients typically receive emergency abortion care in hospital emergency rooms, in obstetric emergency departments, and in labor and delivery units. And when those units close, pregnant patients have to travel outside of their communities to seek emergency life-saving health care. And sometimes they have to travel quite far. And the logistical and financial obstacles that come with the need to travel greater distances can be prohibitive and really dangerous. And the National Partnership actually just released research showing that nearly 40 labor and delivery units and emergency departments have closed since the enactment of the OBA or the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. And we definitely still expect more closures as the law continues to be implemented into the next year and more. So the bottom line is that we are seeing hospital closures and abortion bans delaying the care that people need and forcing pregnant people to continue pregnancies that put their health and their life at risk. And we know that this affects people from many communities, but our research shows that this particularly impacts women of color and women in rural areas. Black women and women in rural areas are especially likely to live in states that ban abortion. And Latino women are the largest group of women of color living in states with abortion bans.

Jennie 23:57

I think the only other thing I would maybe add as I think about all of this is kind of the unspoken thing that also like thinking of those hospitals that people can go to is thinking of the number of those hospitals are Catholic hospitals then, who also then restrict it, not because of state law, but because of doctrine. And you may not know that that hospital you are going to is following the Catholic doctrine, so you may not be aware that you will not be able to get the care you need there, or be told that is why you can't get that care. And so you assume that you can't get that car care in the state, even if it is just because you're at that particular hospital.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, and I'd love to also bring in the perspective of the patient, like somebody walking into a facility or ER to receive care. And something that I think a lot about in the maternal health space is the long-standing pattern of women of color and particularly going into a health facility to express a concern about their pregnancy and being ignored or deprioritized in the process. So we know that women of color often their pain, their concerns about their health and their pregnancy and their experiences can be dismissed or undermined or deprioritized, and all of this can contribute to being denied reproductive health care or health care in a timely manner. And too often we hear stories of women showing up to receive care and them not being taken seriously, leading them to have to experience undue pain, stress, or pregnancy complications. And so, in short, simply just being able to share your concerns about what's happening with your body and having them being taken seriously in any given moment can be a barrier in itself to care.

Jennie 25:50

Oh, that leads us perfectly into the next thing I was thinking about is what are the implications on maternal health? We've already started to talk about it a little bit, and I and this also feeds what you just said with uh women of color not being believed or trusted leads perfectly into that conversation. The maternal health crisis we're in right now.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Absolutely. Yeah, there's so much to say about this, so I will do my best to keep it brief. But first, there's no question that abortion restrictions worsen the maternal health crisis in the US. The United States continues to have the highest rate of maternal deaths of any other high-income nation, and black and indigenous women are more than three times as likely to die from pregnancy-related causes than their white counterparts, and are even more likely to experience morbidity or severe maternal morbidity related to their pregnancy that can leave them with complications far after birth, disability, and of course, in the worst, outcomes death. So it's no surprise that as attacks to abortion access increase, maternal health outcomes in the US also worsen. And so restricting access to abortion can force people to have to continue on with pregnancy and delivery, leaving them to face many health risks that are associated with pregnancy and childbirth because pregnancy and childbirth is inherently risky. And this includes the emergence of, well, one, exacerbating current health care conditions, pre-existing conditions, or introducing new concerns. And so some of this can look like chronic migraines, joint pain, eclampsia, gestational hypertension, postpartum hemorrhage, and even death. So those are all health outcomes that have been associated with being denied an abortion when somebody has needed it or desired it. And because abortion is often safer when you're experiencing severe pregnancy complications, that is an extreme concern for us at the National Partnership because it's really a matter of life, death, or disability. And for black women in particular, the intersection of all of these challenges creates an especially heavy burden. So nearly 60% of black women live, black women of reproductive age live in states that have banned or severely banned access to abortion. And those are also states that are already likely to rank among the worst in the nation for maternal mortality. So there's this compounding impact on women of color. And so, in short, this post-Dobs era we live in now has forced people to have more pregnancies and to have pregnancies that are more dangerous than they were before.

Jennie 28:46

This is just one of those that like it is so enraging. And again, it all of the pieces that link together, right? Like the attacks on Medicaid, the attacks on Planned Parenthood, these all come together and interact with the crisis we're already seeing. So black women, other people of color are often more likely to be on Medicaid. So you might see Medicaid cuts restricting their access to care. On top of that, then worrying about emergency access. Like all of these are interlinked and can just make this crisis so much worse.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah, for the fourth anniversary of Dobbs, the national partnership just put out new research that shows the full scale of these kinds of attacks, especially and the disproportionate impact on women of color. Because, like you said, Jenny, anti-abortion politicians are squeezing access from every end. They're going after in-person clinics and forcing those to close. They're restricting the provision of medication abortion via telehealth and mail. And the agenda is just designed to dismantle the full infrastructure of abortion access. And we know that 23 million women of color of reproductive age live in states where there are clinic closures in the wake of the Republican budget cuts, or states that have attacked access to medication abortion. And that's nearly two out of three women of color that are experiencing these targeted, a targeted attacks on their abortion care. And it's so important to highlight how rolling back access to abortion care restricts people's freedom, it undermines their economic security, and like we're talking about today, it harms their health and their lives.

Jennie 30:50

Okay. This is all really heavy and again enraging. What do let's let's like be a little more hopeful. Like, what do we need to change to fix all this?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

I can start from the maternal health perspective. I think a lot about how we can continue to shift the culture around birth in this country to center the birthing person's holistic experience and recovery rather than focusing solely on the fetus and fetal monitoring and medical interventions that you know interrupt the natural physiological process. And so the midwifery model of care and team-based care in general that pays for midwives, doulas, and community health workers would be a significant step in that direction. And so for midwifery care specifically, research has shown that midwives produce equal or better outcomes than their provider counterparts, including higher rates of spontaneous vaginal birth, higher rates of breastfeeding, higher satisfaction with care among their clients, and lower overall costs associated with the care of their client through pregnancy and labor and delivery. And so there are some bills at the National Partnership that we are really excited about. One is the Bipartisan Midwives for Moms Act that would increase diversity within the midwifery workforce and provide new funding streams for midwifery education. And then the Babies Act would require a Medicaid to establish a demonstration program to improve access to freestanding birth centers. But I do want to say that while we work to expand access to new spaces to give birth, like outside of the hospital or with a midwife, we must also still hold the existing system accountable, especially since giving birth at a birth center or with a midwife isn't an option for everybody depending on their health state and the preexisting conditions, as well as sometimes it's just not desired by all folks. So we want to make sure that all options are truly options and not false choices and are safe places to receive care and give birth. And so the other bill I would mention is the Kira Johnson Act, which focuses on ensuring that health facilities are compliant in being able to provide respectful maternity care, which is care that is high quality and treats people with respect and dignity, and would center the voices of moms and birthing people that are entering the facility and expressing concerns about their health and ensuring that they're really taken seriously. And that this bill also requires implicit bias and racism training for all staff within a maternity care setting.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I am so happy that you spoke from the maternal health perspective about what needs to change about our healthcare system because there's this prevailing narrative around these issues that perpetuates a really strict binary between abortion care and maternal health care. But they are so linked and attacks anywhere along the continuum of pregnancy care are so harmful. So your question about what we really need to change in the system uh has landed with me, Jenny, because it's been devastating to see that abortion bans undercut the provision of all of the pregnancy care that women need. And that's in reproductive health care and it's in miscarriage care, and we really need to improve the framework by which we improve access to pregnancy care. And anti-abortion policies we know exacerbate the maternal health crisis, and we have to address abortion care and maternal health care issues in tandem because of that. So we really need policies that ensure that people can access the full range of pregnancy care and can live autonomous and healthy and safe lives. We know that pregnant people in medical crisis should just not have to worry about whether their nearest hospital is going to deny them necessary emergency care. And pregnant people shouldn't be forced to travel long distances to get the life-saving treatment that they need. So we absolutely need our state and federal lawmakers to ensure that pregnant people can get these services and that providers won't be punished for following the standard of care. Because oftentimes they are forced to decide between providing emergency care and risking criminalization, and that's not where we want to be.

Jennie 35:49

Okay, so that's big picture and policy. So, what can the audience do? I love to make sure that our audience is engaged in these issues and has ways that they can take action. So, so what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah, I would lead with listening to moms and amplifying the stories of black and indigenous birthing people as they shoulder the brunt of the maternal health crisis. So they are best positioned to know what solutions would be the most helpful. And moms every day are overcoming systems of repression and challenges and stressors and still being able to provide and care for their families in a way that's really remarkable and often underappreciated work or work that's care work that's taken for granted in many cases. So I would encourage us to have more conversations with each other about our pregnancy experiences, our experiences receiving abortion care. And at the National Partnership, we're trying to walk that walk through our Listening to Mothers initiative. We just launched in early June our Listening to Mothers report that includes stories and experiences from 4,000 moms of infants and toddlers in all 50 states, including DC. And it's the fourth iteration of the survey. We did extra work to oversample Indigenous and Asian birthing people so we could meaningfully learn about those communities in our subsequent reports, because the report that we first put out is just one of many that'll come through the end of this year in the years to follow. And so I would really want us to lean in with complementing all the research that we do and the numbers with our stories and sharing that with folks in our community, but also our policymakers to really bring to light and illustrate why all of this matters so so much.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

And if I can add on to that, I think that it's so vital that listeners activate and organize and call on their elected officials to engage on these issues. It's so critical to pass legislation to reaffirm protections for emergency abortion care at the state level. So people can get involved in those efforts directly. While the federal emergency care protections, so Mtala, that already exists, it provides important federal safeguards. We can also enshrine those protections at the state level and hopefully help address the tragedies that we're seeing pile up, and states like Illinois and Colorado and California already have these meaningful protections on the books, and it's so huge for listeners to continue to activate around that objective. And I also think that accountability and oversight work is key. You know, don't only want to pass new policies, but we also really need to hold our leaders accountable for enforcing what we have on the books already. So folks can, you know, urge their state and federal lawmakers to use their oversight authority to investigate the breakdowns that we're seeing in emergency care access. And we can hold federal agencies accountable for actually enforcing Mtala as the law of the land. So I really think that there is a lot that folks can do to stay engaged on these issues, to destigmatize these issues, and to make sure that when we're thinking about the Dobbs anniversary, we're thinking about the full spectrum of pregnancy care that has been impacted by anti-abortion extremism.

Jennie 40:02

Well, Ashley Amani, thank you so much for being here. It was so lovely to get to talk to y'all about what is going on with emergency access to abortion care.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, it was a pleasure to be on.

Jennie 40:15

Okay, y'all. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Ashley and Amani. I had so much fun talking to them about what is going on right now around access to emergency abortion and what the implications are for maternal health. And with that, I will see everybody next week.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like us to cover, always feel free to shoot me an email. You can reach me at Jenny, J E N N I E at ReprospyFack.com, or you can find us on social media. We're at ReProSpyBack on Facebook and Twitter, or ReprosF-B on Instagram. If you love our podcast and want to make sure more people find it, take the time to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Or if you want to make sure to support the podcast, you can also donate on our website at reprospitepack.com.