Boroughs & Burbs, the National Real Estate Conversation
Real estate: the ultimate game of risk and reward.
It's the biggest investment most people ever make
Fortunes are won and lost every day.
How do you stay ahead of the game?
Who's buying, who's selling and why?
You need an edge.
Boroughs & Burbs
This podcast is your secret weapon, giving you the insider knowledge and strategies you need to succeed in the high-stakes and cutthroat world of real estate.
The Boroughs are New York City.
The Burbs are wherever you are: Connecticut, Austin, the Hamptons, Carolinas, Florida and beyond.
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we travel the country pressing the experts in every luxury market to expose the pain, find the deals, and occasionally predict the future.
Don't settle for mediocrity - tune in to Boroughs & Burbs Thursdays 3pm Eastern and start dominating your market.
Boroughs & Burbs, the National Real Estate Conversation
Boroughs & Burbs 176 || Iconic Branding Through Generations
In Season 5, Episode 176 of Boroughs & Burbs, we dive deep into the art of iconic branding through generations with special guests Chris Renzo of Scalamandre and renowned designer Jamie Drake. Scalamandre, a luxury brand with nearly a century of history, has maintained its prestige while adapting to the changing times. Chris and Jamie share their expertise on how brands evolve, stay relevant, and build legacies across generations. Tune in for a fascinating conversation about the intersection of timeless design, modern marketing strategies, and how iconic brands continue to shape the world of luxury. Don’t miss this enlightening discussion on creating enduring brands in today’s world.
The Burroughs are New York City. The Burbs are everywhere else. Real estate is the ultimate game of risk and reward. It's the biggest investment most people ever make. Fortunes are made over a lifetime and lost in a day. And we're not playing with monopoly money. How do you stay ahead? Who's buying? Who's selling? And why? What do they know? We want the truth. You need an edge. Burroughs& Burbs is your secret weapon, giving you the insider knowledge and strategies you need to succeed in the high Welcome everybody, Burbs and Burbs.
SPEAKER_05:Season five, episode 176. And boy, am I excited for today's show. I'm your host, John Engel. That's my co-host up there. I'm
SPEAKER_02:Roberto Cabrera. I'm on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Very excited about this. Let's go.
SPEAKER_05:He's the burbs. I'm the burbs. He's the burros. And today we've got Chris Renzo, the CEO from Scalamandre. Or should I say the house of Scalamandre.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you, John. Pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_05:Famous for decades.
SPEAKER_03:And as if
SPEAKER_05:that wasn't enough to carry the whole show, we have world-famous AD100 Hall of Fame designer, Jamie Drake, to explain to us why House of Scalamandra is still so relevant in 2025. So glad to have you with us.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for having us. Thanks, John. Thanks, Roberto. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. I have a couple things of housekeeping first. So that's us burrows and burbs. You'll find us on Instagram burrows and burbs. That's Roberto Cabrera.com. And you see his latest market report where he talks about the New York market. Got to check. You got to check it out after a very slow couple of years in Manhattan. Bang. It looks like Manhattan is taken off. You'll find me at theangleteam.com. I want to thank our sponsor, Grace Farms. You'll find them at gracefarms.org. 80 acres and a beautiful facility where they are doing a design conference this week. I want to thank Lisa Ben-Isvi for putting this show together. She is my go-to for all things design to get to the best of the design world. And so I want to thank Lisa. Why don't you say hi? Hi,
SPEAKER_01:thank you. There
SPEAKER_05:she is. So check out, if you want to talk to the best of the design world, Lisa is the person. I'm going to hit share again one more time. That is the house of Scalamandri. You'll find them at scalamandri.com. I went and found Jamie Drake at the AD100 store. 2023 Hall of Fame. You see, I was not exaggerating. And you'll find Jamie at jamiedrake.com. Hall
SPEAKER_02:of Fame is significant. That's not like one good year. Yeah, that's
SPEAKER_05:like good every year.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:And then we can talk maybe about some of the changes of this iconic brand over the last decade. So with no further ado, welcome, Jamie. Welcome, Chris. So happy.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you.
SPEAKER_05:Can you explain for those who don't know how important House of Scalamandri is, what is House of Scalamandri, and how are you known?
SPEAKER_03:Well, the House of Scalamandri is a historic textile and wallpaper, and also Passamontri brand, founded in the late 1920s. It is a go-to destination for interior designers and architects to specify some of the most luxurious products in the world. Uniquely designed, uniquely positioned in the market too. We definitely have a brand that sticks out and kind of speaks its own voice in a very sometimes loud industry where there's a lot of points of view and a lot of aesthetics. Scalamandre has stayed relevant. I know this is a longer winded question, but really stayed relevant by staying true to its roots and its roots go back to its foundation. And it was started by Franco Scalamandre, who had the idea of bringing Italian silks to the United States after he immigrated to the US. So it's always been a purveyor of excellence and luxury in the interior design space.
SPEAKER_05:Jamie, are they still as important as ever?
SPEAKER_02:You know, Chris captured it, I think, perfectly is that if your focus has stayed on quality, on top, top, top quality and great design, there will always be a relevance. And Scalamandre over the years, just as tastes have changed. When I started in the business in 1978, they were known primarily as a traditionalist resource and a lot of historic resources. recreations and huge amounts of customization that you could do with their own mills in Long Island City. Of course, they've evolved to keep up with the times. And now, though they still have all those beautiful products available, although not made in Long Island City, they also moved into more contemporary designs, which have great panache and great impact. How do you maintain that? I mean, it's like, how do you... You know, you're known for something. That je ne sais quoi. But the industry evolves, people evolve, and then it becomes, oh, wow, look what Scalamandra's doing. And is it more of a shock or is it that you're growing? And are you leading or are you following? Like, how do you approach this?
SPEAKER_03:That's a great question. Yeah. I think, again, going back to what I stated, you really need to stay true to who you are as a brand. And I think the design community takes comfort in knowing or has confidence in knowing when they come to Scalamandre, they know they're getting quality and superior products. And it's just been the same over the decades. We work with the world's most luxurious and renowned textile mills, mostly out of Europe, some very innovative ones out of India. And we've done it for decades. So I just think that there is this kind of underlying confidence that interior designers have and when they're specifying and working with us. But when I- Just to
SPEAKER_02:qualify a little bit of what you're saying, talking about quality of construction of the product or actually the design?
SPEAKER_03:Both. So on the design side, we have an excellent studio. We have four people in our design studio. And actually, I can make this announcement public now. We just hired another creative... lead, Susan North, who used to design
SPEAKER_04:with us.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So she's back on our team. What a talent. She's an incredible talent. Lucky you and lucky her. Yeah, exactly. We also have Lorraine Lang in our department, and she's excellent. She's been around for decades. So you have this studio that has this incredible wealth of talent and knowledge and know-how and the ability to resource, like Jamie was saying, our ability to do custom and historic recreation. That is part of the ethos of Scalamandre. I mean, since the 1950s, we've decorated the White House almost in every administration. We're in 900 plus notable properties, public properties around the country. So, you know, it's not something that happened overnight and it's definitely something that occurred over the decades. But, you know, we may just, you know, speaking of what we've done recently, we partnered with the Met and we went into their archive and we developed a collection, you know, that, was inspired by what we saw there. So on one end, you have this design studio that is really connected to the DNA of the company, but also on the pulse of what's going on in the world. And then we have just all the mills that we work with that they're retrofitting looms from the 18th and 19th century. And they are, know creating products that are you know really really unique and you know you can't just um find anywhere um so i think it's a co and also we to stay i think more integrated and more vertical we've also invested again in manufacturing so uh jamie you know was correct to point out that we used to have a textile fabric mill in long island city up until i think 2004 um but it just became astronomical to manufacture in the New York City area. So that went by the wayside for some time. And my father came in and purchased the company in 2008, 2009, right around that time of the, when we were having fiscal troubles in the country, but yeah, that big downturn. So the manufacturer went by the wayside, but we did still have all those relationships with all the mills around the world. So we do lean on that, but everything that you see, is being designed in our studio. Anything that we come out with is being designed in our studio. And just to hint back at it, we did purchase some industrial digital printers to do wallpaper so that we can come out with our own designs and lean on ourselves more just to make the company, I think, more vertical and more adaptable. From idea of something like Lorraine or Susan, they want to create something from that idea to actually hitting the market, it's going to take at least 18 months. So having a printer and having these printers in our warehouse enables us to kind of stay on the pulse of what's going on in the industry and what's going on in the world and produce product more quickly. I think the design team, one of their biggest challenges And they're very in tune. They're seeing all the mills frequently. They're working with the art studios. They're going to the exhibits at the museums. They're staying on top of the pulse. But coming out with that product a year and a half down the line, you don't want to guess. So staying true to the brand helps us deal with that. Staying true to luxury, staying true to the aesthetic of this brand It keeps us moving, keeps us relevant, and I think it helps keep us on top in terms of how people perceive us as a brand.
SPEAKER_05:Who's buying? Who's making the decision? It occurs to me that you've got to get to key influencers, guys like Jamie Drake, and they say, Roberto just sold a$40 million townhouse in New York. Does... When somebody buys an important townhouse in New York, an important apartment, and we're starting to see in New York and in the Miami, South Florida market, some of these markets, we're starting to see astronomical prices paid for the real estate. And these customers want to differentiate. They want to invest in the very best. If you've spent$40 million for a townhouse or you're on billionaire's row, you want it to look like$100 million. Is the customer asking for it? Is Jamie saying to the customer, if you want the very highest quality, we can't just go down to, what is it, ABC? We're going to have to kick it up a notch because the real estate warrants the very best. Who's asking and how important are the influencers?
SPEAKER_02:John, I think it's funny you say that because it is something that I deal with often as a client who has had great success and has bought a substantial, but then they have a hard time allowing themselves to spend sometimes what's appropriate for a property of the stature that they have purchased. And so I kind of, I have a client right now I'm working with who thanks me all the time for helping him work through this.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, isn't it true, Roberto? And there's nothing sadder than to go into a fabulous, fabulous apartment and say, oh my God, they went, it looks so Ikea.
SPEAKER_02:They cut some corners. And
SPEAKER_05:sometimes they just don't know. how to get to that level. So talk to us about, so what kind of, what's that conversation like, Jamie? I mean, when you say$40 million, you really owe it to yourself to spend 10, making it look.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I mean, so there are places, everybody, it isn't about what people can afford to spend. It's what they're comfortable spending. It's, It is really about working it through so that one has to be, as a designer, I like to say that every project has its own melody and its own lyrics. And you have to know what the sensitivities for that client is on both sides, the happiness sensitivity and the discomfort sensitivity, and try to keep those in the front of your mind and to work through it. So there are places where I want to hold my ground and insist that they step up fully and for the finest quality and other places where I can say, okay, here we can do a little value. Did Jamie freeze?
SPEAKER_04:I think so. Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think it is kind of silly to think of a client who might think about spending 30, 40, 50,$70 million on a piece of property and thinking they can get away with spending a million or$2 million for the decoration and furnishing. It's highly unlikely unless they have the rare instance of finding a property that's$70 million and it's only 1200 square feet.
SPEAKER_05:So Chris, you were legendary for windows, walls, and chairs, and then in 2013 began to branch out. What lines of business are you in now?
SPEAKER_03:So let me give you a little bit more backstory and a little bit more kind of history of the trajectory of what Scalamandri did and what's going on here. So yes, so when we purchased the company in 2009, it was, you know, and I don't want to, you know, speak poorly, but it was almost like a nine-year-old startup company. I mean, the company really had to be brought back to life. So, you know, again, going, I would say from that 2008 to maybe that 2013, 2014 period, it was about rebuilding the brand, getting the stock on the shelf, designing the product that people wanted to see. And then, you know, we got back to where we needed to be. And I think the confidence was always there. But You know, as we went forward, we actually partnered with the Starks. They were a competitor. Stark Fabric was a competitor of ours. And in 2017, we went into a 50-50 merger with them. So Scalamandre became the house of Scalamandre. And what I mean by that, it was Scalamandre is your main brand, but under that was an umbrella of brands. Older Weavers, you know, designed and started, founded by Iris Apfel, continues to be designed today by Lorraine Lang. That is a very notable brand in the market, and it's something that we sell and design. Henson. we were able to acquire the Hinson brand in 2020. That gave us another look and another challenge for the design department. But speaking more to what you're asking and branching out beyond fabrics and wallpaper, you know, we have licensed our designs. We have worked with other companies in the home space to get our designs out there in different ways. So for example, I think in 2014, I think we partnered with Lenox, Lenox China, and we came out with an assortment, well, they came out with an assortment of dishware and tableware that had some of our most iconic designs on it. So, you know, we've done a lot more since then and maybe we can get to that. But, you know, that was kind of the 2010s was definitely a transition period for the company. And, you know, with the merger and just the growth, it's almost like we tripled in the last 15 years.
SPEAKER_02:Can I ask you a slightly off question to that, though? Because you've mentioned you bought the company.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:When you bought the company. you bought it because you've been in this business in the past, or you were looking for an investment, you were looking, and then you just, you said, this is something that is raw and we can really make something of it and make, you know, it was a business, it was a, you know, it was a business endeavor as opposed to necessarily an artistic endeavor.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was definitely a business endeavor. And then the love of art followed, but you know, I can't take credit for buying the company. That was definitely my father. And I think what he saw, well, first off, his accountant was the same accountant as the previous owners, the bidders and the Scalamandres. So there
SPEAKER_02:was already- I didn't know that history and connection.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. That was the bridge. Said,
SPEAKER_02:Lewis, you have some extra money burning a hole in your pocket.
SPEAKER_03:Here's an opportunity for you. Yeah, right. And he saw that buying this company this incredible American heritage company and being able to build it back up. My father's an entrepreneur and he has purchased companies in the past and built them back up. And he saw this as another way to do it. But to pass down this really wonderful company down to his sons, me and my brother, and just kind of follow on that path. So it was definitely a business endeavor. But it blossomed into something more. And me personally, I mean, I've always had an affinity towards the arts and music and had a sensitivity to all that. Do I
SPEAKER_06:remember
SPEAKER_02:your dad was in
SPEAKER_03:real estate and grocery stores or supermarkets before? He was... I mean, it could be anything and we can he might have done it. He did. I mean, when he was 14, he stocked the shelves at a grocery. But no, he
SPEAKER_04:was.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. But yeah, my father is a born and bred New Yorker, you know, from Brooklyn, working class family and really kind of worked his way and worked really hard, made a lot of sacrifice to get where he was. The previous endeavor. Yes. Real estate. But he also owned a armored transit company. So they used to securely transport money from the Federal Reserve to banks and other institutions like that. So a completely different industry. But he saw this as a way to take on another challenge and to do it in a more artistic and luxurious and beautiful industry.
SPEAKER_05:So what I'm hearing is that for a hundred years, there have been iconic designs and you're known for a certain style of design. And what I see happening in 2009 to 2013 is you begin to branch out and basically add more design, expanding laterally, and you also expand into trim, accessories, pillows, furniture.
SPEAKER_04:And
SPEAKER_05:I'm imagining that guys like Jamie who are, you know, they have a project like this and they're trying to get the entire room to work together. Are guys like Jamie saying it's not enough to have Scalamandri on the wall? or to have a Scalamandri on the window coverings. Were they calling for the expansion or was this just good economic sense to say, we're not gonna just provide you the fabric, we can provide you the fabric and the window treatments and the furniture?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think it was looking for new opportunities in the market and You know, for instance, when you brought up pillows, you know, it's kind of an add on to a design project. It's kind of the cherry on top, you know, a little pop of accent, a little pop of pattern and color. And we're known for color and pattern and bold design. But what we did was realize that, hey, you know, we have some talented craftspeople in our warehouse and we started manufacturing our own pillows. And it exploded and we're selling thousands of pillows now to the interior design trade. And I think to the designer, and I think Jamie could speak more to this, you know, the designer is juggling a lot of different variables in any project and multiple workrooms crafting different types of products. You know, the pillow thing was, hey, we can make your pillow and You don't have to worry about your workroom doing it in six to eight weeks, or maybe they're backed up or this or that. You can get a pair of pillows from us, 10 pillows from us, single pillow from us, and we'll ship it out in three to seven business days. It was more of a convenience to the designer. And some of our best-selling patterns just really speak to being on a pillow, like the tiger velvet, the leopard velvet. Sometimes I joke, we're like... the animal house in the industry. Some of her best selling products are animal skin or imitation animal skin. And
SPEAKER_02:that must have exploded your sales of those yardages of your very high end, very high cost. Yes, yes. Silk velvets and- Exactly. Adored and passionate, but often people, designers had to limit it to a pillow because that's all the client could afford.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And- Famously, remember Lee Radswell's living room at one point in New York where all the sofas and armchairs were covered in your Tiger silk velvet. And wow. And everybody said, wow, because that was like$100,000 worth of velvet on four chairs and a sofa.
SPEAKER_03:It's definitely a statement, especially the Tiger velvet. Yeah, and speaking to the other categories, to be successful in this industry, you really need to be of service to the interior designer. And I think having these other categories enables us to be more to the trade and, you know, somebody coming to shopper in our showroom, they can get the furniture, they can get the drapery fabric, they can get the bedding fabric. And if they want, you know, they can also get some really cool shoes from Stubbs& Mouton that we did a license deal with, you know, it's, it's about, really being more to the designer, more to the architect, offering as much as we can that makes sense within our offering. You've seen we partner with some other companies that make these beautiful ornaments. And we did a collection of silk scarves of some of our best-selling patterns. We've done the umbrellas with some of our best-selling patterns. It's definitely the... The Scalamandre customer is definitely somebody that wants to make a statement. We're a bold fabric house. So it's been fun branching out. But again, our bread and butter is still fabric and wallpaper and trim. But branching out and becoming maybe more visible, I think is healthy for any company.
SPEAKER_02:What happens if the industry moves to a more minimalistic... you know, just like a very, even maybe an austere level of design. And you have to pivot in some way. You have to also, you have to maintain market share. You have to be involved. What's the approach?
SPEAKER_03:That's a great question because a lot of the things that I've been talking about or a lot of things you've been showing are allowable prints, lots of color, lots of patterns. The thing is we have more than that. We have some of the most luxurious textures and velvets and planes in the market. It's a balancing act. On one end, you have to showcase your roots and But on the other end, have a wide assortment of product for the market. That
SPEAKER_02:requires informing the marketplace that you do have that.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Yes. And that is definitely an ongoing marketing endeavor. Because I'm going to be honest, people think of us, the first thing they think of is the zebras or maybe the tiger velvet. And Those are bold items. So it's more, you know, we're more than what meets the eye initially. And we have, I think, 17,000 SKUs.
SPEAKER_04:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, and that's also with our partnerships. We also, you know, we have some great partnerships where we distribute products. some really beautiful European lines that also have a different aesthetic. So kind of, you know, the, the house of, you know, yes, we're Scalamandre, but we really do have a look for every project. We do have the product for the minimalist project. We do have the product for, you know, the most decorative or classic project or installation. So it's, Yeah, it is a challenge. You do need to continually educate the customer and people get into, you know, they get into their buying habits and you got to look and try to break that and break the cycle and find new markets, find new people. So that I would say is a challenge in any business. And I don't think that's any different in this business. Right. I think that
SPEAKER_02:making sure that with designers, we have things we love. And then we use them maybe too often and we want to see something new. So it's really imperative for the manufacturers to introduce new products so that we get re-excited. What excites you now? What's exciting
SPEAKER_05:you now? I keep seeing magazines that say color is back.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I've always been known as a colorist. I mean, years ago, the first time I was ever... in a major shelter magazine, like a mass one, was House Beautiful. And I had the cover. And it was the color issue. And in it, Marion McEvoy, the editor-in-chief at the time, called me the king of color. And I had to laugh because it was a photograph of my own living room in East Hampton at that time, which was a off-white room with a beige sofa, two brown chairs. But huge swaths of double height curtains in a strong Bristol blue and accents of chrome yellow and Bristol blue throughout and a giant Bristol blue ottoman in the center of the room. And I realized that I had a painterly approach to color and applying it in ways that had great power. And so I was the king of color. But you have extraordinary range. That picture that John showed earlier, there's a room with a geometric formed carpet. It's gray. I mean, that is gorgeous. That's kind of like your own apartment there behind you. It's in the more minimalist range. So having been in business now 47 years. Scroll down, John. Just scroll down, I think. No, that's, I mean, all of these are extraordinary, but the down, down. More contemporary lavish, but then we go to the more traditional transitional in there. This to me is amazing. Right. Well, thank goodness. Thank goodness. Column Andre wasn't reliant on me for ordering window fabrics for here because there aren't any. But, you know, that over the 47 years that I've been in business, the tastes have evolved. But I actually really love doing a variety of things. I don't like being pigeonholed. And so to get to work on a modernist house. We lost him.
SPEAKER_05:I noticed the pillows, right? It's an opportunity in an otherwise monochromatic, sometimes monochromatic room to add color and to change out the color, I guess, with the seasons and with the years.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes. And, you know, the great beauty of what I get to do is often work with clients again and again and again. This is, I think, the sixth project I did for this client. We recently completed number seven, which was a whole new ground up building on the same property. They fell in love with this property on a whim and bought it. They didn't need another house, but they bought it. We renovated it completely because it was rotten, rotten, rotten, furnished it completely. And then they bought the working farm next door and another piece of property adjacent to it. So they are wonderful clients.
SPEAKER_05:Jamie, I've got a Philip Johnson I'm going to be bringing on the market. Can you help me?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Maybe I'll buy it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I'm going to show him that picture. I'm going to show him what you can do with a mid-century modern.
SPEAKER_02:Please, please do. You know, I have one of my fondest memories, knowing that I have the knowledge of Scalamandre for almost 50 years. And as Chris said, the Their work is in so many historic places, house museums, the Metropolitan Museum. But one of my favorite projects, and people say, what are your favorite projects? I say, well, oddly enough, it's not one that was like any other, but I got in 2002 to work on the renovation, restoration, and redecoration of Gracie Mansion, New York City's official mayoral residence. And... Huh?
SPEAKER_05:I think we lost him.
SPEAKER_02:You lost me?
SPEAKER_05:We did for a second.
SPEAKER_02:You were selected and don't, I want to hear the rest of it. And so the Gracie, I was, this was of course just, what was it? Four months after 9-11 and the Gracie Mansion Conservancy gave me the commission to oversee all of this. You know, it wasn't just decoration. There was major renovation to stabilize a rotten house and redoing seven bathrooms and this, that, and the other thing. But the mission was we started, you know, the end of January, was it needed to be done by 9-11-2002 to show the resilience of New York. And Scalamandre made quite a few of the fabrics for us. And they made all of the custom passamantri for us. And it was really, even to get it finished, the ladies, because I think it was all ladies, who made the custom silk. They did. They did. They brought it home during their August vacation to finish it on their kitchen tables all over Long Island. And it was just a perfect example of how resilient New York was and how everybody could give a little bit to this restoration. How was the city's budget for that? Did you have to fight with them? It was privately funded by a very generous government. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:That's
SPEAKER_06:good.
SPEAKER_03:I'm assuming you worked with Ed Goodman. Yes, absolutely. He was an excellent, excellent man.
SPEAKER_05:How important is brand and what brands are alongside of you do you compete with? It occurs to me, and I'll just use this because the Glass House recently was doing a restoration. And they said, we have Fortuny fabric from the 50s. And so therefore, we have to go... We have to go ask Fortuny, can they, you know, do they still have this pattern? You know, we're not just looking for gray fabric. We need a particular brand. How often does that happen? Because when you've been around for a hundred years, you've got a legacy and you've got some customers who say, I don't just need high quality pink or high quality gray. I need Scalamandre. And who are your peers in that industry? industry?
SPEAKER_03:Great question. You know, kind of speaking to what Jamie was saying before, I mean, I think there's room for everybody. And I think there is a uniqueness to all the top special brands in the industry. Yes, there's competition. I'd be lying to say if there wasn't. But you kind of just need to break through the noise. But, you know, who... I mean, Fortuny, I mean, some of the most beautiful prints in the world. But they do it in their own way. And I do think the customer or the client, the informed client may ask for it. I think Jamie knows better than I do in that regard. If Jamie's client, the end user, as we say on our side, is really asking for the brand. Because we really... hone in our marketing efforts to speak to the interior designer, not necessarily the homeowner. If we become relevant or known to the homeowner, great, that's better for us. And in ways we have, we have products that have been in many movies, Broadway shows, again, the White House. people do know us and people do seek us out. But I would love to hear Jamie's answer to that, because I feel like it's more about the home buyer. Interestingly,
SPEAKER_02:Scalamandria, of course, is a number of things in the current time. But when I think of the name Scalamandria, I still think that they're great. depth and strength in textiles that were based in historicism. And they're the only American company that does that. So their competition in a way isn't known as much by their brand names because I don't think many American, especially consumers know the name Tassinari and Chattel. But Scalamandre, that is a known name. And I think that there's benefit
SPEAKER_03:It'll come back.
SPEAKER_02:Bringing the customer of today. Can you just repeat that last point? We lost you for a second. After benefit. Why does it say my internet connection is unstable? Are they talking about my personality? My psychology? I said that the great quality in what Scalamandre is known for now for 95 years, and we have to ask what they're going to do for the centennial, really brings people and reflects even for contemporary designs. Yes. If there's quality there, you know, there's quality there and it's not going to get lost. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:And that goes back to sourcing from the best mills in the world that provide like we say a linen print. We're not going to buy a cheap linen. We are going to buy the best linen and we're going to have that linen printed. Beautiful. Yeah, there's some great shots of the White House.
SPEAKER_02:Go back one time. I'm going to get a plug in here. Go back to that green room. There you go. A Kips Bay. Boys and Girls Club Decorator Show House, room from two years ago. And thank you very much for having that. Beautiful. It's Timothy Corrigan did it as a board member of the Kips Bay Boys and Girls Club and a co-chair of the Decorator Show House, which is one of our big fundraisers annually. Everybody who comes to enjoy this great beauty is helping support afterschool programs for 11,000 kids and some of the poorest zip codes in America in the Bronx. It's a wonderful organization.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks for letting me get my plug in there. Yeah, of course. It's important. Can we talk about the Kim Space Show House a little bit?
SPEAKER_02:Can we talk about the Kim Space Show House a little bit? Is this, does that, like Chris said that, you know, you're almost selling more to, or your approach is you're dealing with designers almost more than the end users. And that's kind of like your client. And does it, do these, does that show, really cater to a professional exchange more than an end user exchange? No. So we have, typically in New York, we have 15,000 people come through the house in the three to four weeks that we're open. Palm Beach, we branched out. We now have a show house in Palm Beach annually and one in Dallas. Palm Beach, which just closed last week, had 18,000 people come through in three weeks. Those are not design professionals. That's mostly... could design interested people and possible purchasers and clients of designers.
SPEAKER_05:I bet the Palm Beach crowd embraces the color and punch of a Scalamandri more so than the people who live in apartments like Roberto's in New York City, where we all wear gray on gray.
SPEAKER_02:I think we should take up a little kitty to send Roberto a pillow. It is
SPEAKER_03:beautiful though, Roberto.
SPEAKER_05:But Palm beach, Palm beach is probably where you can really shine and
SPEAKER_03:they get
SPEAKER_05:you right.
SPEAKER_03:They get me. They do. Palm beach is definitely territory. Oh yeah. Not afraid of color, not afraid of pattern. You know, there are a few places in the country that really speak to the brand. Palm beach is one of them. Atlanta, Atlanta, Dallas, Dallas. Yeah. These are, know home proud um they want to host um and they want to they want to they want to show the beauty of their home they want to show off a little bit and um and they do it with color and they do it with pattern um and it's it's i always see this it's very environmental you know um for example in the northeast i like in manhattan you you you're here and if you have one of those luxury apartments, you want to see the view. You want to see the expanse of New York. You don't want to hide
SPEAKER_04:it.
SPEAKER_03:If you're in the countryside in Connecticut, it speaks more to having a beautiful print on your drapery panels. It's about the architecture of the home. It's about the environment and the weather and the psychology of everything, too. So it really depends on where you are in the country. know and who you're talking to who you're who you're designing for and
SPEAKER_05:and are you consciously bringing forth lines for the dallas market the atlanta market the palm beach market the new york market because one size does not fit all
SPEAKER_03:yeah that's a great question and that's one of the challenges i think any company in this industry faces because the country is diverse and people do want different things.
SPEAKER_05:You have Republican patterns and Democratic patterns?
SPEAKER_03:I would hope that the beauty of our products would unify the conservative and the liberal. That's a hope.
SPEAKER_02:That's a big hope.
SPEAKER_03:It's
SPEAKER_02:a big hope. We have a lot of hopes. Hope brings eternal, but I don't know about that one.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I know. Maybe I'm speaking way too idealistically. John, that is an interesting
SPEAKER_02:question. I think about, I don't think that there's any way a manufacturer can address a narrow constituency quite so much geographically. However, then I think about Sheila Bridges' beautiful Harlem Toile. which the name is Harlem 12. It's not really necessarily scenes from Harlem itself. I think there might be one or two in it. And that ended up having national appeal.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. We have done small capsule collections. We are about to release what we're calling a minis collection, very small scale prints. And we're thinking about Atlanta. We are. But we don't do it on a grand scale. But we will at times, especially when our sales reps are chirping in our ears, we need this, we need this, we need this. And we do the best we can to appeal to that. But at the same time, I feel like we're designing for something that's greater, something that's the sum of all the people that work so hard at this company. know the brand we're we're designing for the brands and hopefully a constituency that that loves what they see
SPEAKER_05:it sounds to me like a much broader strategy i mean I'll use an example. Lily Pulitzer, right? That's a look that is associated with Florida. And Pierre Deux, French country, you know, is very specific. But you're talking about 14,000 patterns. And so when I say I want a leopard print, you've got 40 different to choose from. And you're not just animal print. You've got solids. You've got geometrics. You've got so many. And so we can't pigeonhole while you're Brand may have historically been animal-focused. You've gone way past the animal-focused.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah, I wish Lorraine, our career director, was here with me. And you've done it well
SPEAKER_05:enough to be able to continue to command a premium where people say, I'm willing to pay up a real Scalamandri leopard rather than a
SPEAKER_03:knockoff. Yeah, absolutely. And we have some products in our line that, you know, we're not so worried about the price because it is so special and so unique. And we definitely have some items that nobody else has. And I take great pride in them.
SPEAKER_02:The name alone, Scalamandri, is incredible. I mean,
SPEAKER_03:yeah, it does help. And I think that is a fortuitous
SPEAKER_02:thing. It's like having a British accent. I would have made like seven times more money if I had a British
SPEAKER_03:accent. No, but but in the in the South, they call a Scala Mondra. So, you know, it's a little a little bit more twang on it. But
SPEAKER_02:that's because they've been drinking a lot of sweet tea.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, a lot of sweet tea. You know, it's one of those very fortunate things. It does. It just comes off the tongue, and it just marries so well with what we do.
SPEAKER_05:Lisa, you've been great. What have we missed? What have you learned and what have we missed so far? And I'm curious about this. Lisa says you are the definition of a mensch. What did you mean when you said that James was a definition of a mensch?
SPEAKER_01:No. Well, I've had the... The gift of knowing Jamie Drake for many, many years when Jamie was on the top 50 list of New York spaces time and time again. And we featured so many of his gorgeous work. Jamie is probably one of the most talented and kindest, most giving people in the industry, I have to say. And I know firsthand that he is truly like that. So philanthropic, so talented. and just a gem. Like he is definitely the definition of a mention in the
SPEAKER_02:industry. You're very kindly,
SPEAKER_01:so thank you. You can ask anyone. And
SPEAKER_02:I could plug any of the five organizations that I sit on the board or I'm the chairman of the board of. I do find somehow I have... a great gift of being a quick and decisive person. And so I find time to do all of my philanthropic work in addition to my day job as an interior designer working on enormous projects.
SPEAKER_01:So Jamie recently came to a breakfast.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry. What, Lisa?
SPEAKER_01:No, Jamie recently came to a breakfast at a brand. And before the breakfast, he already went to organization that he was on the board of. I had
SPEAKER_02:another breakfast. Luckily, I like to eat. And
SPEAKER_01:like to give back.
SPEAKER_02:Roberto, I'm a small firm. We're only six people, which is great because I really love the interaction with all my team members. I used to be 14 people. I really like having six right now. It means that I'm really, really involved. I pick my projects carefully, and I am involved in every decision. And I think the clients love that.
SPEAKER_05:Either of you, I guess, as we sort of wind down, Give us something forward looking. Where do you see the industry moving forward? You know, I mean, most of us are shopping online a whole lot more and a lot of self-help and we can do the research ourself and we've got these websites and Instagram and influencers. And so what's the future for a premium design house to get through and influence? What is the future of high-end residential design?
SPEAKER_02:So from where I sit, my clients, they're not interested in buying their furniture online. They may send me a link to something that they came across and maybe on Instagram, but for the most part, they're looking for a vision beyond what they would do themselves. They want something that's more sophisticated, more truly bespoke or couture, the very overused words, bespoke and couture. We really do bespoke and couture. practically nothing that goes into a project. All right, maybe 10 or 15% is something that's more as is, deliberate as is. But every... Every... Sofa. What's the shape? What's the size? What's the fabric? What's the welt on the cushions? What's the trim if there's a trim on the bottom? And then the pillows, and each pillow has at least three things going on. The fabric, the filler, the shape, and the trim.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I agree with Jamie completely. I mean, these projects are, each one is unique. Everything is exclusive. And we do hear those words a lot, bespoke and couture, but it's true in this regard. And that's what Scalamandre helps the design community do to help provide product so that they can create these one-of-a-kind couture products. you know, homes and, and decorate immaculately and everything, you know, like, like Jameson, every square inch is, you know, meticulously designed and thought of. And that's what makes this industry unique. So where, where do I see it going? I think there will always be a desire for that. And maybe even more so as, you know, as, you know, the 800 pound elephant in the room is like, where are things going with society? I mean, there's a lot of unease and there's people that are unsure of the future, but at the same time, home is a safe place. And investing in your home, I think will be something that stays with us in the future in a very real way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. That wraps it up beautifully.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:that was beautiful. Chris, you should go into politics.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, maybe one day. My wife doesn't want that, but yeah. Small question. Are you recession-proof? I don't really think any industry is truly recession-proof unless they're making money, you know, providing something that people need, like during COVID, if you were selling hand sanitizer, you did well, right?
SPEAKER_05:But it occurs to me that the last thing they give up is their home.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think we're more recession proof than other industries, but I don't think completely because, you know, people with money, they're going to hold on to their money if the market is tumultuous. So, you know, and, and, you know, what I just, Scalamount is just a good example of that. I mean, it was during that really bad recession in 2008, 2009, that the company changed hands, you know? So, you know, and it's interesting. I had lunch with a competitor a month ago and I never would have thought, you know, what he said to me. And he said, over the last 20 years, this is another fabric house, another notable fabric house. Over the last 20 years, we've almost gone bankrupt three times. I was shocked because I see them as a very respected and reputable brand. But business is tough sometimes, and you just got to find ways to stay relevant. And I think what we've done to try to protect ourselves, to be more vertical, bring manufacturing back, bring fabrication back into our own home, into the company's home. Yeah, it's definitely a luxury industry. And the people that are in the top 1% will have the means in a recession. But like Jamie said before, are they going to hold on to their money? Yeah. It's psychological.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's also people who have a lot of money during recessions also don't like to spend it because they don't want people to see them spending it.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:They want to be respectful of what is happening.
SPEAKER_03:That's very
SPEAKER_02:true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Well said. And I think that's a beautiful way to end it. I think that the future is bright for Scalamandri. I mean, I applaud you for after 100 years taking the company, reinventing it, and getting into new lines and making it relevant for the next 100 years. And thank you, Jamie, for all you do with Kips Bay. and Housing Works, Design on a Dime, the Alpha Workshops, President's Dinner, and Parsons School of Design, to just name a few.
SPEAKER_02:Right, and the New York Community Trust Board Chair.
SPEAKER_05:Lest I forget. Thank you, Lisa, for putting together another fabulous design show. I mean, I don't know how you do it. You know everybody who matters in New York.
SPEAKER_02:She absolutely does.
SPEAKER_01:The
SPEAKER_05:important people.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you very much, John and Roberto. Thank you all. If you like this,
SPEAKER_05:go follow and like Scalamandri. Go follow and like jamiedrake.com. Roberto, thank you as always. This has been great. My pleasure, guys. Thank you so much for coming. We'll see you all again next week. Thank you. Bye.
