Boroughs & Burbs, the National Real Estate Conversation

Boroughs & Burbs 177 || Western Canada

• Season 5 • Episode 177

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In Season 5, Episode 177 of Boroughs & Burbs, we take a deep dive into the thriving real estate markets of Western Canada with three leading experts. Randy Dyck of EXP Realty, along with Zahra Jiwa and Rez Jiwa of REMAX, share their insights into the evolving real estate landscape across British Columbia, Alberta, and beyond. Discover the hot markets, investment opportunities, and key trends driving Western Canada’s real estate boom. From luxury homes to family properties, our guests discuss the unique demands of the region’s buyers and sellers, the impact of international interest, and what’s next for these dynamic markets. Tune in for valuable knowledge about one of Canada’s most sought-after real estate regions.

SPEAKER_00:

The Burroughs are New York City. The Burbs are everywhere else. Real estate is the ultimate game of risk and reward. It's the biggest investment most people ever make. Fortunes are made over a lifetime and lost in a day. And we're not playing with monopoly money. How do you stay ahead? Who's buying? Who's selling? And why? What do they know? We want the truth. You need an edge. Burroughs& Burbs is your secret weapon, giving you the insider knowledge and strategies you need to succeed in the high We press the experts to expose the pain, find the deals, and occasionally predict the future. That's Burroughs& Burbs, Thursdays, 3 o'clock Eastern, noon Pacific. Because everyone can make money in real estate.

SPEAKER_07:

Welcome, everybody, bros and brrbs, number 177, Exploring Western Canada. I'm your host, John Engel, and I'm joined by my co-host.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, Canada. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Roberto Cabrera, excited to talk about Canada.

UNKNOWN:

Canada.

SPEAKER_07:

Thank you for singing your intro, Roberto. We're joined today by Randy Dick of eXp Realty, along with Zahra and Rez Jua of Remax Real Estate. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thank you. So

SPEAKER_07:

glad to have you on the show. So I'm going to share my screen and remind everybody, you can find us at burrowsandburbs.com. This is episode 177. I'd like to thank our sponsor, Grace Farms. You'll find them at gracefarms.org. And you can see that spring is springing at Grace Farms, 80 acres in New Canaan. And they've got a full spring program up at the farm. Randy. That's his website. You'll find him at randydick.com. And Zahra is at zahrajiwa.com. And let's see, we've got Remax. Calgary Commercial is where you're going to find Rez. Without further ado, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_06:

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_07:

I have to begin by saying, I don't know anything about Western Canada. And so I think we should take it from the top. I think we're talking about Calgary specifically. So why don't you tell us where in the world we are and how to get there?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. So Calgary is in a province called Alberta. The capital of Alberta is Edmonton, which is north of Calgary. But Calgary is the largest city of the two. It's the largest city in Alberta. We are also the fastest growing city in Canada right now. So lots of changes happening here. We're considered a Midwest country, or Midwest city, I should say. And we're very much known for the Calgary Stampede, which happens... once a year, every summer, and that's when the Western part of us comes out. But other than that, we're just a really great place to live, really good quality of life. It's not as populated as some of our bigger cities in Canada, like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, but it's getting there. It's grown quite a bit.

SPEAKER_07:

How big is Calgary?

SPEAKER_01:

We are at, Rez, what

SPEAKER_07:

are we at?

SPEAKER_03:

Almost 2.8? 1.8 million.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, 1.8 million. We're

SPEAKER_03:

growing fastest in Canada. The last three years, we've had the highest net migration numbers, both internationally and interprovincially. And I'm sure Randy will speak to this as well in regards to the more western markets of Vancouver and Fraser Valley. but we have the most people moving from Ontario and BC into Alberta, majority of that into Calgary. We've seen a population increase of about 4% last year and it was almost 5% the year before. And what do you attribute that to? I think a lot of it is cost of living. Alberta is known for its energy resources. We have a great relationship with the US in regards to our oil sands production, which actually gets sent down to the US for refining. So there's always a lot of good employment opportunities. It's the only province that does not have a provincial sales tax. And it is probably one of the lowest in regards to personal and corporate taxes. The cost of living has always been lower in Alberta than the other provinces. Since COVID, when prices were really increasing, especially in Toronto, Montreal, and in Vancouver, Alberta and Calgary were still very low. We've certainly seen an increase since 2021, since COVID started to slow down. But we are still probably dramatically lower than the other provinces. With the influx of people,

SPEAKER_05:

do you guys have the residential inventory to house everybody? Because one of the things you have is you have a lot of land. It's not like Manhattan. You guys can build.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So right now, the city of Calgary itself has 40 brand new communities that it's building right now. And nine new applications have been put in for this next coming year. round of zoning activity that's happening so we have a lot of growth in Calgary and we're not landlocked like Vancouver is so we have like you said so much land surrounding us and even the surrounding cities which were at one point townships are now growing into larger cities as well and kind of bordering Calgary.

SPEAKER_05:

Is it growing in every direction or is it growing primarily to the northeast or to the southwest?

SPEAKER_01:

Quite honestly, it's growing in all directions, definitely. The only

SPEAKER_03:

place we have a border really is the Rocky Mountains.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so the west side is...

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Banff National Park is a federal park and there are restrictions in regards to occupancy and ownership in a national park. So other than that, Calgary can grow west only as far as probably Canmore. But

SPEAKER_01:

north- And there's also some, yeah, there's some residential areas that belong to indigenous groups that we can't also build in. So-

SPEAKER_05:

How far is it from Canmore to downtown Calgary?

SPEAKER_01:

It's about a 45-minute drive.

UNKNOWN:

OK.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah. So when I see these images, I see this is the downtown. And it looks like there's flat land around the city. But if I look at images of Alberta, they're all featuring mountains. And so I mean, it looks flat in this image. And yet, the images of Alberta are all featuring mountains.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a great question. We are a very flat province. So we are part of the prairies. And the province itself is very flat until you get up into the Rocky Mountains. But you're right. Most of the marketing that's done to Alberta does show the mountains because it's something that, like really, that's our pride and joy is the mountains. It's easy to get to. So this

SPEAKER_07:

space between Calgary and the mountains, is this all subdivisions or is this farms?

SPEAKER_01:

It's a lot of farmland.

SPEAKER_07:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's a lot of farmland and reserve land.

SPEAKER_07:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

And what's the most expensive real estate? Is it in downtown Calgary along the river or is it out there in the mountains?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's actually the... It's a bit of both. So the mountains of course are a lot more of our recreational type properties. So it'll be a second home, that kind of thing for a lot of people. The city itself, yes, anything along the river is very valuable.

SPEAKER_07:

And I can see those are the Rockies in the distance?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yeah, you can see the Rocky Mountains from Calgary for sure.

SPEAKER_07:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Which is lovely. So any property that has mountain views obviously is gonna have more value. you know, any condos facing the mountains are going to have more value. Yeah. The mountains are also West. So you get a lot of light that way from, from where we are. So yeah, it's just, it's a great way to face.

SPEAKER_05:

Give me a sense of the housing stock is, I mean, you know, some of these buildings, are they residential high rises or are there houses? Like if I was coming there and I say, look, you know, I have, have, you know, I have a million and a half to spend and I want to buy, you know, three or four bedrooms, you know, where, and I, you know, I, I like the activity of being downtown. Like what are my options?

SPEAKER_01:

So for one and a half million, you can get into an inner, we call it the inner city. So our inner city is very valuable because obviously like there's There's not as much growth in the inner city. So everything that's inner city for us is a lot more valuable. And a lot of developers have gone and torn down single family homes to build infill. We call them infills, which are tall, skinny homes in place of one. So we would build two homes on a lot where there once was one home. So something like that, you would probably get for a million and a half in the inner city. or you could go into the suburbs and we've got these man-made lake communities and you could buy a property in a man-made lake community with backing onto a lake for a million and a half. So moving out further, you get more home, more land that your home might sit on and you might get some more amenities out there too. And if

SPEAKER_05:

I'm on the lake and I buy a house, just how much land is that on? Is it on a half an acre?

SPEAKER_01:

No, probably like the most would be a quarter of an acre would be like the largest lot that you'd probably get here.

SPEAKER_07:

I'm sitting 45 minutes to an hour outside of New York City. And I have, and we have, we have a little bit of half acre in the downtown, but then we substantially, we have an acre zoning, two acres zoning, four acres zoning. And we're right outside of New York. So how far out do I have to go from downtown Calgary in order to get an acre, two acres, four acres?

SPEAKER_01:

Not very far. Probably like, I mean, in Calgary, we say everything's 20 minutes. I think that's changed since we've had the influx of people. So I'd say within an hour, for sure, you would be able to get an acre, four acres of land easily.

SPEAKER_03:

And when you're talking about land like that, yeah, when you're talking about land like that, I mean, there are acreages that are, you know, four to 20 acres and, you know, with horses and, you know, all the amenities of living kind of the almost rural kind of lifestyle. And that's easily within an hour, if not 35 to 40 minutes. And when we're talking, I mean, in Calgary, You know, we have a pretty good road system. Most of it is by car. You know, our mass transit is a little bit more localized to the interior core. So you can get to some of these larger homes within about 40 minutes of a car ride. Is that a

SPEAKER_05:

sub market, for example, in the sense of like, There is a marketplace for buyers that are looking for four, five, six, 10 acres, and they want to put up a massive house, tennis court, pool. John, they could, you know, he's a place where he could put his heliopad, you know, something like that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that is a totally different market and a totally different lifestyle. And like I said, it is more of that rural lifestyle where you have the barn for multiple horses and you do regular training. And there certainly is that. I mean, like Zahra said, the Calgary Stampede is one of our biggest annual events. But a large portion of that is because that's the roots of Calgarians. So there certainly is that. It's a different vibe than what you would have downtown.

SPEAKER_07:

So I'm still trying to figure out who are these people who are buying and what do they do for a living? Roberto and I in New York, we can map the habits of New Yorkers, their habits. able to commute to Florida. There's so many direct flights and they're so cheap that a lot of Wall Street is now commuting to Florida. They summer in the Hamptons, but there's no schools there. But that's a three-hour drive. Connecticut, it's a place where you might move. It's commutable, one hour, not three, and good schools. So where does Calgary... Where does Western Canada fit into this? Because we've been talking about how New Yorkers have been seeking out Florida for quite some time. Now they're starting to seek out Texas for different reasons. Not commutable, but different reasons. Again, wide open spaces. But Texas has been picked over. So is Western Canada the new Texas? And how easy is it to get there and Who's buying?

SPEAKER_03:

I think this is a great relay into Randy here. So I'm just going to mention real quickly. I mean, Calgary is really the office central for oil and gas for Canada. So the larger offices, so flights, you know, into Houston and Dallas, regular basis. We have international flights, you know, into Asia. into Hong Kong, into Europe. It's a very large established international community for flights. Part of what Calgarians do, a large base of the wealth is probably still in energy. There's a larger growth in regards to the tech field startups that is happening. But the base is really in oil and gas, that petroleum energy source right now. were they were calgarians um and as goes oil so goes the price of real estate very much so okay just like texas got it very much so um and when we're talking about you know the energy sector we're also talking about international energy players so not just the us us is our largest partner But we're talking, you know, other countries as well. We're talking, you know, the Arab countries as well. They'll have offices here and there'll be a lot of commuting back and forth or a lot of individuals that are in Calgary for periods of time, moving their families here for two, three year periods of time. Where Calgarians like to vacation? I mean, we love the mountains, summer and winter. many sports, many activities that can be done in the mountains. But where we like to vacation is where Randy's going to probably give us a lot more information is interior BC. The Okanagan area is where Calgarians will buy their often second home, their recreational property. And I think Randy can probably identify that a little bit better than myself. Is

SPEAKER_05:

that

SPEAKER_03:

traversing the Rockies?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's going east-west. So going from the West to the East. And so, yeah, Vancouver, it's the left coast, the West coast, the best coast is the way I say it. And we're California of Canada. The battle begins. Yes, yes. So we're the California of Canada. But what you mentioned about Texas is really true for us as well because many, many people from Vancouver have been moving to Alberta because of affordability, jobs. They have the flexibility of work wherever they are. And in fact, Alberta's done a very good job of marketing to the Vancouverite to come live in Alberta, they're pumping the radio stations, the TV stations, anything they can do to encourage, you know, BC people to move to Alberta because of the affordability and the good jobs. So, you know, it's been a steady stream of people moving from the West to, you know, the central part of Canada, or, you know, whether it be Alberta, even Saskatchewan is a very popular destination these days. And Saskatchewan's got a lot of great things going on with uranium and so many resources there as well. But yeah, I'm out on the on the west coast. And, you know, we're a lot like Manhattan, we are a very condensed small area of property of land that can be developed. Because we have the Pacific Ocean to the west, we have the U U.S. border to the south. In fact, I live all of a half a mile from the U.S. border here. And then to the north, we have- In

SPEAKER_07:

Vancouver. You're south of the word Vancouver?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I live in a small area called Crescent Beach, just outside of Vancouver, which is right in the, you know, when you see, so White Rock is essentially where I live.

SPEAKER_07:

Got it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And so I- Looks pretty

SPEAKER_07:

swanky.

SPEAKER_04:

It's on the Pacific. What can I say? Do you have a boat and fish? I do not have a boat, but I kite surf on the water. So it's sailing in a different version of that. But so the Vancouver market and then all the way out to Fraser Valley, you can see Abbotsford there. You know, my 30 years of selling real estate, a lot of it was in that market where... Collectively, I've sold over 7,000 properties. So I know the market pretty well at this end of the world. But- In your 30

SPEAKER_05:

years, has that kind of exploded because Vancouver has grown?

SPEAKER_04:

Massively, massively. And so, you know- Rez was talking about, you know, vacationing and enjoying the mountains. That's in the interior of British Columbia. And interesting enough, the interior and to the far east or the eastern part of British Columbia is the most active part of the real estate market right now. How

SPEAKER_07:

far east from Vancouver?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, you know, so we have the Kootenays, but Kelowna. which is wine country and a beautiful place to live. And, you know, develop a family and so forth. That's a great area. But it's the Cranbrook. You see Cranbrook on the very lower corner of your screen there. A lot of recreation there. And then all the way up into the Golden or Revelstoke area. That's a very popular destination for Albertans. Can we talk

SPEAKER_05:

about Revelstoke for a second? So, you know, we see a lot of skiers that go to Calgary and to Banff and they go to Vancouver. But then everybody starts talking about Revelstoke like it's the next big thing and it's going to explode but everybody says it's very difficult to get to. Is that true?

SPEAKER_04:

That is one of the biggest challenges with Revelstoke is finding your way there. Which, you know, Fernie is actually, in the south, is actually an easier destination to get to. But again, they're all a little bit further. We've got Whistler Blackcomb to the north of Vancouver, which is a world-class ski recreation destination. Yes, so there's Whistler. So that's one of the places that most of the North Americans, if you're a skier or a mountain biker, you really know this area well. What's

SPEAKER_07:

a lift ticket at Whistler cost these days? My son was horrified to see$250 lift tickets in the East, but I just went to the French Alps and it was$60 a day for a lift ticket.

SPEAKER_04:

You know, there's a comparison on the net right now that you can literally go to Europe for cheaper than I can go to Blackcomb Whistler. So I can get a beautiful flight over to Switzerland and ski at one of the finest mountains in Europe for less money than I can go to my local mountain.

SPEAKER_07:

So is it being corporatized like we're seeing major corporations buying up the major Vermont resorts and the major Colorado and Rocky resorts? Whistler is part of that corporate development. Condos on the mountains.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it is. Okay. And so they're basically taking over the market and making it very exclusive and expensive. And they control all the markets. It's almost unfair trade, so to speak. But they've been able to do it.

SPEAKER_05:

Is there any public resistance to that? Because people are like, it's not like it used to be. It's not as pure as it used to be. It's more commercial. It's more people.

SPEAKER_04:

Absolutely. Yeah. No, there's a lot of pushback, but there are some, some local deals. They do give you some local benefits and you buy some what's called an edge pass, which gets you, you know, discount tickets and discount here and discount there, but it's still, you know, gosh, I mean, I remember taking my family skiing and, you know, I thought, okay, it's about a thousand dollars a day to ski, stay, do you know, keep my kids on the mountain for the day. And I've got five kids. So it was like a thousand bucks. Well, today to go to Whistler, it's a, it's about a, it's about a$3,000 day. You know, it's all said and done.

UNKNOWN:

Wow.

SPEAKER_07:

So I heard about Calgarians buying second homes in Banff, and second homes in the mountains. I'm assuming it's Calgarians again and Vancouverites who are, but we also talked about the international market and we talked about the importance of Western Canada to the energy markets and Middle Eastern and Asian. So are they also buying up the real estate and has that affected prices? Anyone?

SPEAKER_01:

So a couple of years ago, well, I guess it's been three years ago now, Canada put in a foreign buyers ban on purchases of residential properties that are like three units or less. So if you have a suite at home with two or three units in it, that would be off limits to foreign buyers. But anything more than that is open market for foreign buyers. So for that reason, there's been less activity from foreign buyers. But again, like Rez mentioned, there's- All

SPEAKER_07:

foreign buyers. This is not directed at some countries.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's not. Yeah, it's not restricting. Yeah, it's to all. And the reason was because there was a huge short housing shortage happening all across Canada. And so we just weren't able to keep up with the demand of housing that was happening.

SPEAKER_07:

Everybody has a shorting, a shortage of inventory, everybody. And yet after 177 shows, this is the first time in 177 shows where I've heard of a government saying no foreign buyers. We've done Europe shows, London. We've done all over the world, and this is the first time. If I can even add. It must have a profound

SPEAKER_03:

effect on the real estate prices. There's also an empty home tax, Randy. I think that's also in place in many communities where if your home is sat there empty– you will be taxed a different amount.

SPEAKER_07:

Roberto, can you imagine if they did that on Billionaire's Row on 57th Street in Manhattan? An empty house

SPEAKER_05:

tax? They tried to institute a pied-à-terre tax, which would have been impossible to enforce, but it would have devastated. People would have just not come here. And the whole point is they come here, they pay their taxes. It pays for schools that they don't use. It pays for streets that they don't use. It pays for the subway they don't use. And they come here and they just dump a bunch of money on restaurants and shopping. So it's just a counterintuitive thing.

SPEAKER_07:

Randy, is that a Calgary thing? They're not doing that in Vancouver, are they?

SPEAKER_03:

That's where they do it

SPEAKER_07:

more.

SPEAKER_01:

It's worse in Vancouver.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So, so if you're a BC resident, you pay 0.5% of your assessed value. So if you have a million dollar home, you're paying 0.5%. If you're a foreign owner, you pay 2% of the assessed value of the property on a yearly basis.

SPEAKER_05:

That started just like five or six years ago. Right. And it really dropped your deal volume. Is that right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Yeah, it did. You know, it's interesting. Um, You talk about the sales, volume of sales. Volume of sales has diminished incredibly since the high of post-pandemic, 2021, 2022. In most single-family markets in the Vancouver, Fraser Valley, which is about 4 million people in total, single-family sales volume has dropped 50% to 60%. Think about that, 50% to 60%, yet prices have not dropped. And part of that reason is because we just can't build more homes. Yet we have the second largest country in the world and we can't figure out how to build more homes. What does that come down to? Government policies, rhetoric.

SPEAKER_07:

Well, Vermont, we just did a show in Vermont and they talked about a lack of labor. So it's not a policy

SPEAKER_04:

issue. But we have that problem too. They

SPEAKER_07:

don't have enough 25-year-olds building houses. Yeah, with hammers and screwdrivers, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, it starts with policies here. We just can't, we can't push, you know, I buy a piece of dirt. I buy a piece of dirt that's zoned for whatever it is zoned. I, I may have like a, like a, like a development property. I might be in a process for five or six years before I have a finished product. It's zoned. Now if I have to go through the zoning process as well, well add another couple of years to that. Like I've, I've, Been in developments, I've had developments, I've owned property. I've been literally from start to finish a decade, a decade. And not that I didn't push at it, not that I didn't work at it, but it's just so challenging to move through the process. Way too many bottlenecks.

SPEAKER_07:

Change in administration. Any chance that these policies will be reversed? That you'll welcome foreign investment and that you'll, I don't know, encourage more pro-business, pro-growth policies?

SPEAKER_04:

We have a federal election coming up. We're sure hoping that's going to happen. Is

SPEAKER_05:

it definitely dictated at the national level, not so much on the provincial level?

SPEAKER_04:

You know, your most important vote... at least this is my perspective, your most important vote is at your municipal city level. That's where my vote matters the most, yet the voter turnout is the lowest at municipal.

SPEAKER_00:

Always

SPEAKER_04:

is. But gosh, you know, government from bottom to top is... It's a mess.

SPEAKER_07:

We did a show on Palm Beach. I have to say, I recommend the Canadians all watch the... Palm Beach show. I mean, it was incredible because they're projecting, I don't know, 100,000 people growth each year for the next several years. They have a plan to modernize and expand their airports. They have a plan for transportation. And I said, well, where does it end? And they showed me pictures of these fields and they said, we've got the real estate and we're committed as a municipality toward a pro-growth strategy. So fascinating. 2%, I don't think that is that discouraging. Roberto, tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what I can expect to pay 2% in Florida, right? If I go down to Palm Beach or Fort Lauderdale, I'm going to pay 2% property tax because there's no income tax. A lot of people are down there and paying 2% per year property tax. So I don't think Canada is way out of line on that.

SPEAKER_04:

John or Roberto, what's your tax-free day? What's your tax-free day in the year?

SPEAKER_07:

I don't know if I ever get there.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, come on. You guys pay so few taxes compared to what we pay here in Canada.

SPEAKER_05:

Really?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_05:

I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_03:

What is it, Randy? It's June something? I think that's kind of where we're

SPEAKER_05:

at. You

SPEAKER_07:

get free health care. So as a result of these taxes and a discouragement on foreign countries, buying foreign investment, what's the real estate market been doing for the last five years, both in Vancouver and in Calgary? I mean, so much demand, so little inventory, prices are rising. Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01:

I think the difference, like there's such a vast difference between Vancouver and Calgary. For instance, our average price of a home is it's just hit the$600,000 mark, our average price of a home. And Randy, where are you guys at right now, 1.3?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, it depends on what market. It could be as high as... 3.5 million. Out in the valley, it's 1.4 million, 1.5 million. It just depends where we're at. Because we have such a diverse market. It is from beachfront to mountains to this, that.

SPEAKER_07:

Let's zero in on the difference between Seattle and Vancouver. I mean,

SPEAKER_04:

they're very similar markets.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, very similar markets. Does

SPEAKER_05:

the currency difference make any, have any effect on the comparison? Because the dollar is like 142 or something to the

SPEAKER_04:

Canadian. Yeah, when we didn't have foreign buyers tax and when we didn't have, you know, restriction on foreign buyers buying, we had a lot of Americans coming up, especially in places like Whistler Black Home buying property. So, I mean, 35% discount on everything. It's substantial.

SPEAKER_05:

Can an investor establish some form of LLC in Canada and then buy in Canada?

SPEAKER_07:

Or is there a residency requirement? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, there's always a workaround, right? Where there's a wallet, there's a way. I

SPEAKER_05:

like the way you think. I

SPEAKER_04:

like that,

SPEAKER_05:

yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So there's workarounds, but it's convoluted and complex and there's ways around it, but we're not seeing near the influx of people doing. So if

SPEAKER_05:

that policy were to get repealed, you would feel, you would acutely feel a change in the marketplace immediately.

SPEAKER_04:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think we would too. And I mean, The reason they, one of the reasons they put this restriction in place is because of, well, Vancouver was one of the main reasons because there was so much foreign buyer activity happening in Vancouver that it was becoming like, young people were not able to ever purchase a home. Yes, that becomes

SPEAKER_05:

unaffordable

SPEAKER_01:

for others. Yeah, it was just making it very affordable and they had no limits. So then they put in all of these restrictions like the vacant home taxes and all of that as well. But I mean, we, us on the other hand, we're seeing so much growth. Like we are still seeing so much growth. We're still seeing so much building happening. Like what you were explaining about Tampa, Palm Beach, where did you say? Palm

SPEAKER_07:

Beach. Palm Beach.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. We did a

SPEAKER_07:

show on Tampa and they're out of control as well. I mean, Palm Beach is now too expensive. And so a lot of people are looking at the, you know, the next Florida city. So

SPEAKER_01:

yeah. Yeah, so ours is expanding very much the same way. And they are putting in new infrastructure. Like, you know, they're putting in new train lines for rapid train lines going in. There's talks about that happening across the province, up into Edmonton. This is

SPEAKER_07:

city to city? This is not commuter lines. This is east-west lines in the province?

SPEAKER_01:

No, this is actually north-south.

SPEAKER_07:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And then municipal... city lines as well.

SPEAKER_07:

So where are these lines? Calgary, Edmonton?

SPEAKER_01:

Calgary to Edmonton, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So there's talks of a rapid train going in there. That is more a commercial thing. So that's more of like business. So that would be, you know, right now, all of the big oil and gas headquarters are in Calgary and technology headquarters are in Calgary, but this would allow for a spread between the two. And then, you know, speaking of that as well, Edmonton kind of follows about six months to a year behind Calgary. So right now, I mean, we're reasonably priced. Edmonton's even more reasonably priced. So it's a great place to invest in properties. Rentals are doing great right now. So yeah, it's a nice-$600,000

SPEAKER_07:

for the home?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Edmonton? That's it. That's an average price. So you can buy a home, a three-bedroom home, three bathrooms for$550,000. All

SPEAKER_07:

right, so let's review. Reasons to go to Western Canada. Oil and gas, right? I get it. Skiing and recreation in the mountains. I get it. Certainly, there's got to be other industries. You just mentioned technology, right? And the retirees who are looking to downsize out of their expensive U.S. real estate, is that a possibility? We've already cut off our foreign investment. So what else besides oil and gas and recreation are we marketing to?

SPEAKER_01:

Affordability. 100% is quality of life. Quality of life is like you can't get a... That is our... best asset in Calgary, I would say, is quality of life.

SPEAKER_03:

We

SPEAKER_01:

have the most sunny days. We don't spend a lot of time commuting. And a lot of people are working remotely now too. I think that's been one of the biggest draws as well to Calgary is people are working remotely. So quality of life here is great. It's not expensive to live in Calgary. Entertainment, restaurant life, like all of that has, you know, gotten so much better in Calgary. The arts and culture has really improved a lot in Calgary as well. And I think all of these are due to the fact that we're bringing in so many people that they're leveling up with all of their experiences that they're bringing into Calgary too. So

SPEAKER_07:

are you drawing retirees from down under?

SPEAKER_01:

I would say if we are drawing in retirees, it would be because they are maybe leaving the US for other reasons. That's the only reason we would be drawing in retirees. I don't think we really draw in retirees. I would say we really draw in a younger class of people into Calgary. It's really because it's affordable, you know, and it's people, you know, young, professionals who have studied for years and years and they land a great job in Vancouver, they still can't afford a home for 10 or 15 years. Whereas in Calgary, you graduate from university and you can buy your first home after two years.

SPEAKER_07:

One of my Florida associates talks about the shuttle practically between Canada. She works the Toronto to Boca market, but she talks about a huge number of Canadians really want to split their time between warmer climates and Canada. And is that with California? Is that with Texas? Where are the Western Canadians looking to escape to?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if Randy would be the same as ours. But ours, a lot of people would be going down to Phoenix, to the Arizona. state and then Palm Springs is those are the two most popular places I would say for people from Alberta to go to.

SPEAKER_04:

Now that's pretty popular to Arizona is very popular. In fact, I just had a great agent up from from Phoenix Scottsdale. And we had a whole event around Scottsdale, Arizona. You know, just to show Vancouverites what it's like to have a second home, a snowbird home in the Arizona area. But the big difference you talked about, what's the big difference? Well, it's really California and Texas. We're the California of the United States and Alberta is the Texas of Canada. And so you kind of have that concept. And so for people in the Vancouver market, it's really lifestyle premium. They're looking for lifestyle premium with Ocean, mountains. We have such a cosmopolitan city, a metropolitan cosmopolitan city. The food scene is, you know, like in Canada is one of the best. And so it's just all of those things coming together. A lot of people come here from other parts of the world and have their second home. And I know it's a little bit difficult to do that right now, but we just have such a cosmopolitan vibe that happens here in the Fraser Valley and the Vancouver market.

SPEAKER_07:

Check this out, 325 bucks, New York, Vancouver, direct. 300 bucks, who knew? And there's a lot of choices, Delta, JetBlue, United, Air Canada, all heading there direct for 300 bucks. No wonder,

SPEAKER_06:

right? No wonder.

SPEAKER_07:

I mean, you can complain about taxes and you can complain about a lot of things, but I got to tell you, Canada provides a lot of cheap flights to get out of Canada to Canadians.

SPEAKER_04:

I would reverse that flight. I would say coming from Canada to the United States, it's probably twice the money. We're trying to pull you up and like, cause we're, we're like, get me on a plane today. I need to go South today. And so I think if you reverse that, you'd have a different story.

SPEAKER_05:

Where do you go to get out of Canada? In the

SPEAKER_04:

US? Or do you go to

SPEAKER_05:

like Mexico?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, Mexico is an easy spot, but Phoenix, Arizona is great as well. Vegas?

SPEAKER_05:

Do people go to Vegas?

SPEAKER_04:

Vegas is an easy flight, yeah. That's an easy one. But Vegas is Vegas. You know, you can only go to Vegas for three days and you got to war out.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

I

SPEAKER_03:

think Roberto said it the best earlier is that the benefit, John, for Western Canada, I mean, a lot of it is the exchange rate. When you come up and you get to exchange in a dollar and get$1.40 back, things become a lot cheaper. I mean, I think the day-to-day for Canadians, we kind of get used to our own currency and Europeans also get the same benefit with the Euro. And so when you're investing in Canada, I think it makes a lot a lot of sense. You know, just from that perspective alone, there is some a lot of good things that have been done by some of the governments. I know in Calgary here, we had last year opened up zoning so that you can apply for multifamily zoning in any residential area caused a lot of backlash from some of the more expensive communities. And also the federal government has put in some very, very lucrative financing options for multifamily developers. So if you're building a new development that's five units or greater, the government is willing to back it through an insurance program that will allow you to do 95% loan to value financing on a 50 year amortization. Say that

SPEAKER_05:

again. Yeah. I was going to say, repeat that.

SPEAKER_03:

I

SPEAKER_01:

know it's down for

SPEAKER_03:

50. You can get it's basically, it's called our CMHC, which is a government backed insurance to back a mortgage that will let you do 5% down and up to 50 year amortization. So you're you can make a project actually cashflow because of those numbers and And it's there to help incentivize developers in building multifamily units. There are restrictions. And this is where you'll see in different markets, you have to make sure that if it's a rental property, you're maxed out at what rent you can charge. So in Calgary, we can do this all day long. You try to do this in Vancouver or even in the Fraser Valley, it's not going to work because the rents are much higher there. So there are programs out there. There's been a lot of developers from the US and from Europe that have been investing in multifamily projects here in Canada because of some of those opportunities.

SPEAKER_05:

So no foreign restriction in that sense for those properties?

SPEAKER_03:

Commercial property does not have foreign restriction. You can come here and buy a strip model all day long. Or build an apartment

SPEAKER_07:

tower.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. Yeah. Build an apartment tower.

SPEAKER_07:

So that's a way of owning my rent. There's no restriction on the rents I can charge unless I take that program.

SPEAKER_03:

Unless

SPEAKER_07:

you take that program. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

So John, you want your two bedroom, you just have to buy the building and just take one. Yeah, that's right. That's it.

SPEAKER_06:

I

SPEAKER_07:

am encouraged after looking at the flights that while the flights to New York are substantial, 700 and up, you're right. You can get to Phoenix, LA, 300 bucks,$200. Yeah,

SPEAKER_03:

so- I'm encouraged. It's very, very easy to get to. And I mean, you know, I think Randy would agree. Our summers are amazing in Canada. It's the winters that sometimes we need to break it up.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I'm from the South actually, Rez. Yeah. From Pincher Creek, Alberta.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, Pincher Creek.

SPEAKER_06:

You

SPEAKER_04:

get

SPEAKER_03:

some of the wins.

SPEAKER_05:

So how, how far is the drive from Calgary to Vancouver? That's like 10 hours.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. 10, 12 hours.

SPEAKER_07:

I have to ask about the elephant in the room. Politics lately has got everybody anxious, both on this side of the border and your side of the border. And so I want to know what kind of... What kind of an effect has that had or is it going to have on the Canadian real estate market? Basically, the uncoupling, the talk of tariffs on again, off again. I mean, I read this morning that it's impossible to basically tax Canadians without affecting every car in America. And the biggest import we have is energy and we're very much dependent on it. So there's a lot of anxiety on this side of the border. And as we saw in that big hockey game, there's a lot of nationalism at play as well. What kind of an effect has that had already on real estate? Are you seeing a pullback, a nervousness because of this politics?

SPEAKER_03:

I think commercial is different than residential. So maybe Randy and Zara want to talk about residential. I can give a little bit of insight on the commercial stuff after. Go

SPEAKER_04:

ahead, Zara.

SPEAKER_01:

So for us, I would say definitely we've felt sort of a standstill in sales. So within the last two months, our sales, since the talk of the tariffs have been going, our sales have decreased by 20%.

SPEAKER_07:

And has that been reflected in prices as well or not yet?

SPEAKER_01:

No, actually not in prices yet. I think it's too soon to see that. But it could be a

SPEAKER_07:

buying opportunity if this persists.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But I do think that what it's done is it's made people sort of pause and say, I'm gonna wait and see what happens. It feels like there's a little bit of instability right now. And I think people are in that wait and see kind of- On

SPEAKER_05:

both the buying and the selling side?

SPEAKER_01:

No, so inventory has gone up. Inventory has actually doubled in the last two months. So on the selling side, people are a bit more anxious to get going on their plans. But on the buying side, people are sort of pausing and saying, let's wait and see what happens.

SPEAKER_07:

You need inventory. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_05:

Sorry, John,

SPEAKER_07:

go ahead. You needed inventory. You welcome this freeing up of inventory.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, we definitely do. But the buyers aren't fighting yet. So

SPEAKER_05:

the prices are going to come down.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's, yeah, that's inevitable.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. You heard it here

SPEAKER_03:

first.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right. We did.

SPEAKER_03:

Book

SPEAKER_01:

that plane ticket.

SPEAKER_03:

We've had, and we've had a decrease in the interest rates in Canada, multiple. I think it's our fifth decrease in a row.

SPEAKER_05:

Can we talk about your, your mortgage, the mortgages that you can get? Cause I always find that interesting. Cause we do, we can do a 30 year fixed mortgage. You can't do that.

SPEAKER_04:

You know, the really interesting thing here is we talk about inventory increasing. It's increasing here substantially as well. Part of that inventory increasing is tied to the mortgages because many, many mortgages are due. So we have terms. So we have an amortization of 25, 30, 35 years, whatever we have as an am. But then we negotiate an interest rate for a period of time, one year, three years, five years. Most go with a five-year term. And those five-year terms are all coming due. Substantial amount of mortgages are coming due where people have to refinance. And things have changed over five years. Rates have gone up a lot. Yes, they've come down a bit, but they're still very, very high from when many, many people locked in at almost free money, you know, 2% interest rates, you know, these kinds of things. And so that is bringing a lot of people to market because they either can't requalify, at least in my market, they can't requalify, or they've overspent, overused their home as an ATM machine to buy stuff.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so they're now like, oh, my goodness, we got to sell. We got to get out of this. But there's no buyers. The buyers are all sitting on their hands. And, you know, if we want to talk about the elephant. Yes, tariffs, Trump, all that is. causing some of that, but it's not the biggest thing pushing it. Part of that is our federal election that we're now in process of. I think once we get through the federal election and everything starts to settle down, it'll just be kind of business as usual again. But I will say this because I've been doing this for so long. We get stuck in these patterns of how The market works. And today we talk about it's a buyer's market. It's a seller's market. Gosh, I remember carrying properties listings for not just days, weeks, months, years. Like, I mean, the market that we're in right now where we can move a property in 60, 90 days is still a really good market. And we forget, we forget about that. So, you know,

SPEAKER_05:

is your rental here in Manhattan, our rental market is, it's just banging at the ceiling of record prices for the last several years. And it comes off a little bit, bounces up and down. But are you, is your rental market extremely high? Price wise?

SPEAKER_04:

Speak that in Calgary.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, Calgary has gone up a lot in regards to rental prices, partly because some of that financing program I told you about, it gave a lot of developers a lot of extra air room to hit the ceiling. But they were also comparing to the influx of people coming from cities like Vancouver and Toronto that were already used to paying a higher rent. And so, you know, there was a bit of opportunity there that some of the developers have taken and rents went up. We are seeing a slight decline in rents in the last six months, but slight. We've set a new norm in regards to rental rates, for sure.

SPEAKER_04:

And

SPEAKER_05:

Randy, for your market?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, in the Vancouver market, you know, building, of course, is a difficult thing. So bringing a new product to the market is really, really challenging. And then we've had such a high demand influx of immigration, like record immigration numbers for the last six, seven years, just massive immigration. And those immigrants usually land in three or four cities, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary. Why aren't they building

SPEAKER_07:

houses? Wait, you got all these new immigrants. Why aren't they building houses? I thought you had a labor shortage like they do in Vermont.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, we do. It's... And let's face it, the new younger worker just doesn't want to work hard.

SPEAKER_05:

Let's

SPEAKER_04:

put it out there. They don't want to get their hands

SPEAKER_05:

dirty. Where is the immigration coming from?

SPEAKER_04:

Go ahead, Randy. We have a lot coming from South Asia. There's a lot there. Then You know, the people with larger money would be China, but that's really slowed down a lot. But, you know, there's still a fair bit of money coming in. But most of the immigration today is not the immigration that's buying the expensive homes. They're just trying to get by and make a living.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

In Calgary, we're seeing a lot of immigration from kind of the politically unstable areas. So Ukraine, Afghanistan, some African countries as well. And that's kind of government supported immigration. But the immigration that probably has the biggest impact, at least in Calgary, is the Asian and subcontinent Indian immigration. immigration, largely because that immigration is often happening through an educational component and they are often tied with fairly good resources from their home country. So, you know, pretty medium, you know, middle to upper class immigration coming for education into Canada. Often, you know, there's been reports last year from some of the larger banks in Canada that sometimes we don't actually count them in the population because they come in through student visas. But majority of them, even though the visa requires them to go back to their home country within three months, majority of them will actually secure employment in Canada. So

SPEAKER_07:

it sounds so two things. On the one hand, there's pressure on your economy based on the mortgage rules and the resetting of rates, putting a lot of pressure and making more inventory available. But it looks like the change in U.S. immigration policy, tightening up on immigration policy here could be a great benefit. to Canada, generally speaking, bring up more people with means and workers in particular to migrate to Canada, more student visas at our expense, more worker visas at our expense. Those are good things for the predictions, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, those are really good things for a growing economy and a growing country, but I think like Randy said, it's going to probably depend on our federal election because Part of where that gets clogged up is actually in building homes. Where do these people go? Because if we do not have enough homes, all that does is push prices and rents up, right? And that's where the challenge really is in regards to it to the point where last year, the current federal party had to draw back some of those immigration options because there was so much pressure on housing. So really, if we had the homes, then the country could grow a lot more. Canada's, I think, always been really good with its immigration policy in regards to not assimilating necessarily, but allowing new immigrants to become part of the fabric of Canada. And that's where I think a lot of Canadians feel their national pride is because to be Canadian isn't just one thing. So, but those are some of the pressures. If I have an opportunity to talk a little about the commercial stuff in the current market and this elephant in the room, what I'm seeing from commercial developers and investors is they're probably a little bullish right now. Because I mean, right now they know there's a lot of Canadian pride. There's a lot of momentum in regards to opening up interprovincial east-west trade between our provinces. There's been a huge increase since COVID in regards to industrial and warehousing in Canada. to be able to get products east-west, but also to the shores. And so a lot of the large distributors and retailers have opened up avenues for warehousing. You talk about the Amazons and the delivery services and things like that. They do have a lot of major warehousing centers, a lot of automation going into that. And I think From what I'm hearing from commercial investors, they see that continuing. In regards to when you talk about, you know, we've already kind of talked about the multifamily market. There is opportunities, especially in certain provinces more than others, but there's also opportunity because of this growing population. You have areas like Vancouver and Toronto where some of the hurdles are also land prices. I mean, land prices in Vancouver are I mean, but that's because, you know, there isn't any more land to buy. But going back to the retail market in Canada, we also see a fair bit of strength in that. It may not be the large Hudson Bays anymore, but, you know, smaller retailers, franchisers are doing really well. You can't go in Canada, in any city without... you know, hitting a Tim Hortons or a Starbucks drive-thru. I mean, you know, drive-thrus are what we Canadians do in the winter. It's almost like a hobby. So, you know, there's a lot of growth in regards to that. And, you know, when you're looking at the hospitality industry is also as a commercial sector. Since COVID, hotels, motels have certainly increased their rev par, their revenue per available night. And they've seen the benefit in that. And they've seen that, you know, the tourism and travel component picking back up. So commercially, I think, you know, Canada is doing good. You know, with tariffs, that's going to have an impact in regards to workflow and what people spend. But I think what we'll see is what we've already seen is a lot of Canadian spending in Canada. not maybe going. It sounds

SPEAKER_07:

like despite short-term volatility and some short-term buying opportunities as a result of that opportunity, it does sound like the long-term plans are an opportunity, a buying opportunity, an investment opportunity in Canada. Very exciting. Thank you very much, Zahra. Thank you, Randy. Thank you, Rez. This has been great. If you love everything about real estate like we do, Please subscribe and tell all your friends about this. I mean, each week, Roberto and I visit another exciting place that we know nothing about on the planet. And wow, I'm so glad I learned about Calgary and Vancouver today. Very exciting market as an investor and maybe as a retiree. And sounds like Whistler might be fun for my next vacation. So thank you all.

SPEAKER_03:

Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you, Roberto. Thank you, John.

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John Engel

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Roberto Cabrera

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