Boroughs & Burbs, the National Real Estate Conversation
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Boroughs & Burbs, the National Real Estate Conversation
Boroughs & Burbs 192 || Home Inspections
This week on Boroughs & Burbs, season #5, episode #192 we shine a spotlight on one of the most critical, yet often misunderstood, steps in the real estate transaction: the home inspection. In this episode, we welcome Stephen Gladstone of Stonehollow Home Inspections, a seasoned expert serving Connecticut, and Jacqueline Gathers from Pillar to Post, who covers New York City’s boroughs. Together, they share what buyers, sellers, and agents need to know in today’s market. We explore the unique challenges of inspecting homes in the suburbs versus the city, the importance of pre-inspections, what inspectors are uncovering most frequently, and how regional differences can impact findings. A must-listen for anyone buying or selling in the tri-state area.
The Burroughs are New York City. The Burbs are everywhere else. Real estate is the ultimate game of risk and reward. It's the biggest investment most people ever make. Fortunes are made over a lifetime and lost in a day. And we're not playing with monopoly money. How do you stay ahead? Who's buying? Who's selling? And why? What do they know? We want the truth. You need an edge. Burroughs& Burbs is your secret weapon, giving you the insider knowledge and strategies you need to succeed in the high Welcome everybody, Burrows and Burbs, number 192,
SPEAKER_05:season 5. Today on the program, home inspections. And we've got Stephen Gladstone in Connecticut representing Stone Hollow Home Inspections. Say hi. Hi. And we've got Jacqueline Gathers in New York City representing Pillar to Post. Hello, all. Glad to have you. And I'm joined by my co-host, Roberto. Where are you, Roberto? I'm on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.
SPEAKER_03:Central,
SPEAKER_05:center of the known universe. That's
SPEAKER_04:correct.
SPEAKER_03:I love it.
SPEAKER_04:How hot is it in New York today? You're staying on the shady side of the street. Yeah, it's hot, smuggy. It's the humidity.
SPEAKER_05:It's a good day for selling houses, Roberto?
SPEAKER_04:It's tough. Yeah. Just in a townhouse. And they had air conditioning on the first couple of floors. And as you get to the top floor, there was no air conditioning. And first of all, heat rises. You could feel the heat. It felt like the sun when you got to the top floor. It was awful. And the buyer said, what? For$41 million, I can't get air conditioning? We were pricing a house. And I asked, I said, when do they want to list it? And they were like, right now. I was like, maybe in the fall. But anyhow.
SPEAKER_05:All right. So today we're doing home inspections, and I'm so glad that we have an expert from the boroughs, New York City, and from the suburbs, because I think it's a very different proposition, I suspect. But I want to ask the experts. First of all, Roberto, does everybody in New York City, when they buy a condo, get a home inspection done? And do brokers, what's the broker perspective, should they?
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so it's not just condos, it's condos, co-ops and townhouses. And what's interesting is I've been doing this 27 years and all townhouses get inspections, all of them. But the numbers of condos and co-ops that people purchase and they get inspections is so small. It's incredible. It just is. And a lot of that is because of access. A lot of that is because the boards, you know, there's always people going in and out and servicing those things. And you're really only responsible for, and you can only, you know, you're inspecting really what's in the walls, within the walls of what you're buying. You know, a lot of buildings may not allow you to go into the boiler room and things like that. You got to get special permission. They don't want you wandering around and identifying things and certain things like that. So, I mean, that's, but- And sometimes it becomes a hindrance and people were like, they wanna do an inspection. And it's like, you gotta do this inspection now before you sign the contract. So let's get on it. So it's timing too.
SPEAKER_05:Everybody gets a building inspection in Connecticut. I mean, most of the time it's a contingency. Many times now with cash buying, it's the only contingency. Even when the negotiations are over, fine, I'll pay full price. Fine, I'll pay full price plus 10%. But I still want a building inspection for informational purposes only, which means I'm not using it to change the price to renegotiate I want a building inspection because I want to know. I want a report that tells me what it is I'm buying. So I'm going to start with you, Steve, out here in Connecticut. Are you finding who's hiring you and are they showing up saying, I'm not using this for negotiating leverage. I want a home inspection because I want to know what I'm buying.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, this is our 42nd year of doing home inspections. So I've gone through the ups and the downs. And the last two years, while you say everybody has home inspections, a lot of people have been waiving the inspection in order to get a better position to buy the house. And they very often don't do an inspection at all. But one of the things that has bothered me for years is people using the home inspection as a way to reduce the price of the house. And I think that that's foolish. I really think that we do things backwards. We should really be listing the house and doing an inspection before the house goes on the market. noticing all the things that are bad or need to be repaired, and then have those things fixed or disclose them, and then put the house on the market and not have to negotiate pricing. But nowadays, with the waiving, and almost every realtor promises me, no, we're not going to waive, but there's a lot of waving going on and it's really affecting the marketplace for the home inspectors. And it's really affecting consumer protection big time because people are buying houses and they're not even aware of what's broken or what needs to be replaced. The air conditioner may be working, but it may only have two more years of life left to it. And if they're spending all their money on the house, what are they gonna do in two years when that air conditioner goes?
SPEAKER_05:If you do a pre-inspection and I fix all the problems, I guarantee you Jacqueline's going to come in there representing that buyer and she's going to find a few more problems. You guys always find a few more problems.
SPEAKER_02:But they'll be minor ones.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. Jacqueline, is that true? Should we be doing pre-inspections? And how long have you been doing this?
SPEAKER_00:So I've been in business eight years, but prior to that, I actually retired from the New York City Housing Authority after 30 years of service. So I'm pretty well versed in the field. Steve mentioned something really important that we've seen an uptick in New York City. A lot of sellers are having pre-listing inspections done because that puts them in the driver's seat. OK, they can use that report. to fix what they want to fix. The things they don't want to fix, they can price it out. so that when the buyer comes full transparency, they already know what's wrong with the house. They can share the report with the buyer, giving them more confidence in purchasing the property. And another thing is that the buyer can't price gouge and say, oh, I want that door replaced and it costs$2,000 when the seller already priced it out and it's 150 to replace the door. So that pre-listing and inspection is really important. And what we've found is that sellers, that have a pre-listing inspection done, 80% of the house sells for asking price or over.
SPEAKER_05:When's the last time you priced a door?$150. I want your door source.
SPEAKER_03:I
SPEAKER_05:think you're right. It's interesting that they're not... My perception is that they're saying, I still want it, but I want it for informational purposes only. But Steve, you're saying that they're willing to say as a way to win a multi-bid situation, I'm going to waive the building inspection and I'm not even going to get it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, unfortunately, that's what's been happening lately. But I use the example, if you were going to sell your car, you would take your car and wash it. or you take it to a car wash, you would tune it up. You would clean the back seat. What's happening with us is the house goes on the market and the seller wants to just wash their hands of it. They wanna walk away from it. Instead of staging it, which is what we were doing for years, cleaning it up, making it as advantageous for them as possible so that buyers come in and love what they look at, they're ignoring it. That's why I say doing the pre-inspection points out all those things and they can get estimates on what something would cost. I just think it's a smarter way of doing it. You
SPEAKER_04:guys are increasingly seeing these things happening? Yes. Like the sellers?
SPEAKER_05:All right, so walk me through what I can expect because I think some people are picking up the show for the first time and they're like, I want to watch this because I want to know what I can expect. I think what they can expect, if you're going to try and buy, if Roberto tries and buy a house in Connecticut, I'm going to tell him, you should expect a half a day, four hours of time. Somebody's going to arrive at eight in the morning, and by noon, they'll be ready to talk to you. So you don't have to arrive until 11 or 12, and then you walk around with the inspector. I don't recommend that. and he'll start telling you about the house and what he's found over the first couple of hours.
SPEAKER_02:That about accurate, Steve? Well, actually, I don't recommend that way for my clients. So let me just explain. We do team inspections. So we're going to have two or three licensed inspectors on site. And I'll be the lead or one of my guys will be the lead. And we are actually going to hold that client's hand throughout the whole inspection. And we're going to go around and explain things to them so they understand what's going on before they even get a report. They're gonna leave that house feeling calmer and more at ease because they know what issues are there. Then in a day or so, they're going to get a report that's gonna reflect the same thing. But what I've found over the last bunch of years is that teaching them about the house, teaching them how air conditioning works, teaching them how to change a filter, explaining them about the age of the roof and why the roof is only gonna last so long makes them, not only feel calmer but more aware because i'm dealing with 35 year olds buying their first house and they're spending a million dollars they're scared to death
SPEAKER_04:but in some cases you must you must also for people who are less knowledgeable or less you know are you not applying as much common sense You could also provide a lot of alarm and there'll be, you know, look, I'm gonna spend a million dollars, but you're telling me that really this house over the next four, like five to seven years is probably gonna cost me another$150,000,$200,000. Well,
SPEAKER_02:if that's true, then they should know that, but that's not typically what's going on. What we're doing is we're giving them an owner's manual for the house with the report and with the walk around. And we're calming them down because they'll point at a piece of trim and they'll say, oh, that's gonna be a big deal. And it's not going to be a big deal. It's going to be a caulking. Today's inspection, as an example, they wanted to know about a taping and spackling line that the painter's going to fix when he paints the room. It wasn't a big deal. And so calming them down about the little stuff then they're more prepared for the asbestos that's on the pipe or a roof that needs to be replaced in the next couple of years. It's not to scare them. It's to make them more comfortable with what that house is.
SPEAKER_05:Jacqueline, how is it different in Manhattan?
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes I do an inspection and there's a lockbox in the inspector. That's it. You use the lockbox, you go in. Sometimes. But one of the things I do is I teach the home inspection component to first-time home buyers. And one of the things we stress to them is that the house is like a body, okay? If my nail is broken, it's not a big deal. I can go to the nail salon. They can fix it. I'm in good shape. But if there's something wrong with my heart, that's going to affect how my body operates. And we paint that picture for them so that we don't want them to get caught up in aesthetics or things that are just not important. We need for them to focus on the bones of the house. We're concerned about that roof, the mechanicals, the electrical, the plumbing. Those are the things we want them to focus on. And a lot of times when we have clients come back to us two or three times for an inspection, we ask them, well, what happened at the last inspection? And they start saying, well, you know, they wouldn't replace the screen door. The screen door, you lost the deal for the screen door. So these are things that we kind of like to have that conversation with them about what's important and what's aesthetics. You can paint over something. And, you know, as Steve mentioned, a trim with paint, those are minor things. We don't want to focus on that. You want to focus on the bones of the house. That's what's important. That's what you want longevity with. And that in the long run, if something's wrong with it, that's what's going to cost you money, not a door or a vanity.
SPEAKER_04:What are the most challenging things to identify? Because I mean, for example, in some of these buildings, let's say it's the dead of winter and you cannot check, we can't really check the air conditioning in certain buildings. So certain buildings don't turn it on, et cetera. In a townhouse, it might not come on. How do you, or if it's wintertime and the heat, how do you certify or give someone comfort in those situations?
SPEAKER_02:Well, first of all, you have to explain to them what the limitations of that home inspection is on that particular day. People will call us up and say, I need an inspection tomorrow. If it's pouring out, you're going to find the leaks. You're going to find the gutters overflowing. You're going to find all the water problems. But if it's bright and sunny, you look for stains. But you're not going to be able to see the same thing when there's six inches of snow and their expectations need to be adjusted. So we try and explain things before we go out in our contracts and before we even start the inspection that they have to understand we're not able to see the future. We can predict things just like with air conditioning. The typical outside air conditioner is probably gonna last about 15 years, but we encourage them to cover them in the winter and maybe they'll get an extra five years out of it. So explaining things to kids that don't really understand houses, and I think Jacqueline, you'll probably agree, a lot of our customers have no house sense whatsoever, explaining it to them will help to calm them down. And at least they'll begin to understand what the little stuff is versus the big stuff.
SPEAKER_05:I think in the age of the internet, and I have to say it's probably happened in the last 20 years, as information becomes better to access, I have to say that I'm on my sixth house. I think when I bought my first house, I think that I got a report that said the water is potable. Now, I think the standards... in your business or the expectations in our business is a lot more stringent. I think people are ordering a battery of water tests, air quality tests, especially since COVID. I want to understand the HVAC. I want to understand, are we at MERV 8 or MERV 10 or MERV 12? MERV Griffin, what are you talking about? What does that mean? Well, I think in the old days, you couldn't talk about MERV levels, but now... Tell me, are your clients more educated because they've gone on the internet and they're asking for tests and they're asking better questions?
SPEAKER_02:Well, in that price range, what's happening is the wife says, I want you to test for everything. And so... The mold testing has become very popular. I know in New York, you have to have a mold license. In Connecticut, you have to have an asbestos license if you're going to take a sample. But we do radon testing on almost every house. We do termite inspections on almost every house. We do some mold testing in Connecticut. We do water testing for a whole gamut of different things, depending on whether they have a well or whether they're on municipal water. What we're finding is not that they're better educated, but that they're more worried about things. I think, Roberto, you said, you know, are they fearful? They're fearful. They're coming into this thing fearful. What we're trying to do is calm them down and make them more aware of what are the important aspects of this.
SPEAKER_05:I just had a$3 million sale fall apart because the radon came in at two and a half. Well, that's silly. I said... Well, but the actionable level from the EPA says right there on the internet, it's four. And they're like, yeah, but two and a half is still too high.
SPEAKER_02:Find me a house with zero. You're never going to find a house with zero. You'll find low readings, but for$1,500, you fix the house.
SPEAKER_05:Really hard for me or for you to educate, to tell somebody who's fearful that, that they can live with radon or water that's less than perfect.
SPEAKER_02:You can make it even simpler. One mouse on a trap has made people run away. And that couldn't be more ridiculous because we lie to people. I admit it. We lie to people. We say only 99% of the houses have mice.
SPEAKER_05:They all have mice. They all have mice. There's two kinds of houses. The house with a mouse problem and the house that doesn't know it has a mouse problem. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:And to be afraid of these little critters that do almost nothing except poop and pee, it's ridiculous. But there are going to be people who are going to say, I'm not buying any house that has any kind of rodent. And they're going to be searching forever.
SPEAKER_05:Jacqueline, you don't have these problems in the city, right? There's no rodents in the city.
SPEAKER_00:No comment. But what we do have is the overeducated young buyers. I'll have a client that's buying a condo and they want termite testing and radon. And so they check all the boxes because they don't know. So they say, I want everything. So I have to get on the phone and explain to them that, you know, your brick and mortar condo, there's no radon on the fifth floor and that there's no termites on the seventh floor and explain to them what, and then some of them are just insistent that they want it done. And I explained to them, we don't want to take your money for something that you do not need. But I had one client and the husband was a scientist and they were buying a condo and he insists on having radon testing done. I explained to her, I explained to him, they just, she said he will not sleep at night unless, so we did the radon testing in an apartment. Waste of money, but that's what they wanted. That made him sleep at night and you get things like that where we try to educate them because you don't need this, but they want it, so we give it to them.
SPEAKER_02:Peace of mind. They want peace of mind.
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_05:So one of the questions, and it was for pre-war versus new construction in Manhattan, but I think the same is true out in Connecticut. Is there a different inspection for, say, pre-war and antiques versus new construction or even newer construction?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think that what there has to be is more experience on the part of the home inspector, because we're looking at different aspects techniques and different materials. Some of those materials are no longer available. Some of those materials are carcinogenic. I think that you have to have a bigger body of knowledge because you're looking at so many different types of materials and with newer houses, you need to understand heat pumps and PEX plumbing and newer techniques with electrical. You have to keep making yourself sharper so that you understand the different techniques.
SPEAKER_00:I agree with Steve on the pre-war buildings. The electricals, a lot of times they're not upgraded. And you know, the whole point of the home inspection is about functionality. Just because it doesn't look like the new construction, it works just as well. And we test them just to make sure. I'm always cautious, especially in New York City with new construction, because one of the things, I did a whole seminar on co-ops, condos, new constructions. You absolutely need a home inspection done because with new construction, No one's lived there before. You need to make sure that all the components of that condo are functioning as designed. And we find a lot of things with new construction, more so than our pre-war buildings, because sometimes the plumbing is not functioning as designed. Half the outlets don't work in the unit. The doors don't close properly. We had one condo where the door was open, but the toilet was there so you couldn't close the door because the toilet was kind of blocked. How does that work? So they had to come back and they had to revise that. So we kind of focus a lot on new construction because we find so many things. The pre-war builders, they're older. They're actually more spacious and people love the pre-war builders in New York City because the square footage is amazing. But you have to check the electrical, the plumbing, make sure the floors are level, minor stuff. It's that new construction that we really have to pay attention
SPEAKER_04:to. In a new construction though, are you talking about a building that is literally brand new? Yes. So at what point, and I ask this because Sometimes we sell an apartment in a new construction and obviously you're closing on it the following year and you're doing the final walkthrough just prior. And some developers do not want the broker present with the buyer during a final walkthrough because they feel like the broker's gonna be like, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong. So I'm just curious at what stage in the process are you able to get the access to inspect what you want?
SPEAKER_00:So what we ask is that the electrical is in place and that the plumbing is in place because it's difficult to do a quality inspection without the electrical and without the plumbing. And it's funny you should mention the final walkthrough. You know, when we do that inspection and they get that punch list, the client, a lot of times they hire us to come back. and do the final walkthrough with them to make sure that everything on that punch list was repaired correctly and is functioning as designed.
SPEAKER_04:Do you ever get any resistance or someone saying, and who are you? And why are you here? Oh,
SPEAKER_00:they never asked us that.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting.
SPEAKER_02:We get it. We get it in Connecticut. I mean... one of the hardest inspections that we do, which is totally ridiculous, is going through a brand new house that's just being built because the builder doesn't want it to be inspected, which is crazy because many times these houses are wonderful. And all I'm going to say is nice things about it, but they're so afraid that it's going to add to that punch list that they don't want to have a home inspector in there. They say, well, a municipal inspector's already looked, but he's only looking for code. I'm looking at a whole bunch of different things way beyond code. I'm looking at safety. And I find brand new houses that don't have a handrail, that don't have an anti-tip on the stove. That might be an important thing for a young homebuyer when that stove tips over and burns someone. So it's not the same, but the builders are scared to death of us because we're picky.
SPEAKER_05:So are the realtors, Steve. I'm coming to your house next. And Roberto shows up with his buyer, I think. And he shows up and he asks Roberto, can you recommend three home inspectors? Roberto or I, we're going to pick somebody who's not going to blow up the deal. Mr. Magoo. I am afraid that the only thing an inspector, from a realtor's point of view, the inspector could blow up the deal by discouraging, bumming out my customer. And many deals fall apart as a result of the building inspection.
SPEAKER_02:Many of us have been called deal killers. But realistically, you don't stay in business for 42 years. doing home inspections, getting referrals from a million brokers, being the deal killer. Where is that line? You seem to be getting the
SPEAKER_05:hang of this now. I'm glad we're having this conversation because we got to get honest with each other. If you come in and say this... HVAC system is 15 years old, according to the sticker. It's at the end of its useful life. And this roof is 20 years old and it's also at the end of its useful life. And you start clicking through and scaring my buyer with all the things that he's going to have to replace in the next five minutes, right? Like a week after closing, he's going to come to me and he's going to say, what the hell did you get me into? So I'm where is that line because when i go back to the seller and i report this he's going to say what the heat works the air conditioning works the pool was full of water last summer what do you want from me i didn't promise you a new house
SPEAKER_00:I think, you know, as a home inspector, we don't want to be alarmist because, again, we're not there to kill the deal. So when we do, for instance, the brownstones, you know, the brownstones have some age on them. So when we find things, the way we present it to the buyer is we tell them that, you know, this is pretty typical for a house this age. Okay, so that puts it in perspective. Yes, there's something wrong, but it's not unusual. It's not a unicorn. This is pretty common for a house this age. And that's how we present things to our clients so that they're not alarmed. They feel comfortable. They know, okay. And we tell them no house is perfect, but this is typical. So they understand that it's not something that's weird or crazy that is only happening in their house. This is something that we find in houses this age. And that's how we present things to our clients, not to alarm them, not to kill the deal. If they want more information, then we'll have a conversation with them about it. But that's how we present deficiency.
SPEAKER_05:Like what? That great big jagged crack in the wall coming right down through the middle of that brownstone. You're like, it's good. It's typical for a brownstone built in 18. He's not going to say that.
SPEAKER_00:We'll tell them that you need to bring in a structural engineer for further evaluation. So we don't leave them there like that. If it's something of that nature, we'll tell the point them in the direction of the professional to further assess it and give them more detailed information.
SPEAKER_04:That's our role. Have there been occasions or is there something that you would identify that you literally in your own gut, you have to, because you're trying to be objective, you're saying these are issues, this is, you know, black and white, this is what's wrong, this is what's okay, etc. Where you literally look at something and you're like, you cannot buy this house because this is a ticking time bomb. Or a major surprise. Yeah, like this, you know, the foundation, the house is in great shape, but this foundation is going, I mean, it could compromise everything. I mean, I don't know. I'm just throwing out.
SPEAKER_02:Do you have any horror stories like that where you really
SPEAKER_04:shake
SPEAKER_02:your head? I can certainly answer that question. My wife was a realtor for years. You know that, John. And she feels that there is a cover for every pot. Okay? There are people who are handy. My first house, my mother couldn't believe I was buying it. My father said, what bank is giving you a mortgage for this piece of you know what? Okay? I bought that house for$44,000. I sold it for 2005 and I made a good buck on it because I had people lined up to fix things. It's making people aware of the problems so that they can budget for it. And it's not a question of that they shouldn't buy the house, but I will tell you one of the indications that I usually use if somebody is iffy about it is if the wife is starting to cry, I figured they're probably not gonna buy the house, okay? But the bottom line is that doesn't happen all that often. And most of my clients buy the house. But if the air conditioner is 15, we give them an idea of how to make it last longer. We talk about maintenance so that maybe they don't have to change that boiler. But if there's lack of insulation in the attic, we talk about, hey, maybe you should think about this sooner because of the rebates that might disappear with that big, beautiful bill, okay? So I'm not killing deals. And I think I'm pretty focused on taking the pulse of my clients so that they are understanding the house, but not fearing the house. If they are fearing it, maybe they should be looking at another house.
SPEAKER_05:All right, let's do some word association, John. I like it. All right, we're going to play a game. We're going to say a word, and either one of you can jump in with the first word that comes to mind. So I'll start with an easy one. Electrical panel. What do you think of when you hear electrical panel?
SPEAKER_02:Go ahead. My feeling is with all the new changes that have happened in the electrical standards now, I'm opening up panel boxes that are loaded with arc fault and ground fault circuit interrupters now. And people that have no clue what that is, And so we have to explain it to them that arc faults are about loose connections and sparking and arcing and ground faults have to do with measuring what's going through the outlets and shutting off before somebody gets electrocuted. So they need to understand that now they have to go to the panel box to reset things instead of at the kitchen sink.
SPEAKER_04:Got it. That wasn't quite word association, but... What do
SPEAKER_00:you
SPEAKER_05:want from me? No, that works. Go
SPEAKER_04:ahead, Jacqueline.
SPEAKER_00:Federal Pacific. Say again? Okay. Federal Pacific. It's a type of electrical panel that when we see it during inspections, we advise the client to replace it because they've been known to overheat. Sometimes the circuit breakers don't work properly and you don't see them anymore. But every now and then we see one and we... replace it right away so
SPEAKER_04:i got one bed bug mattress mattress
SPEAKER_02:not in connecticut
SPEAKER_04:we there was an apartment here in a building the bed bug it was a a hoarder the bed bugs were identified because they were going to the other apartments. They were in the walls. They were in the outlets. They sealed the place up. They brought some service in. They raised the temperature to like 200 degrees in the apartment for hours just to kill everything. It took like four months to actually get it to a point where there were no more instances of bed bugs. It was frightening. Wow. Okay. So Just saying, that freaks me out.
SPEAKER_02:That would freak me out, too. But I lived in Manhattan for several years, and we were so complacent with the cockroaches, we would just hit them on the table while we were having breakfast.
SPEAKER_05:Nice. Nice, Steve. See, now we know what your standard is. Got it. All right. Next word. 1950s construction. Post-war construction. Excellent. All right. Good stuff. Good stuff. All right. Anything more to add about that? Like what's not? 75 years old. I mean, they've proven themselves. Okay. So we're, we're fans of the fifties.
SPEAKER_04:Even the white elephants, the white brick elephants here in the city. Just that's what we call them. White elephants, but still solid.
SPEAKER_02:Well, here's the problem is that you don't know who's monkeyed with them in the last couple of years. And one of the issues that we all would wish would go away is the handyman that comes in and does stuff way beyond his abilities. And so you can take a 1950s house and destroy it by, you know, when my daughter walked and moved into her house, she wanted all the walls gone. Now, I call that a barn. All right. but she wanted beams everywhere, holding up everything. You bring in the wrong person, you bring in somebody who doesn't understand weights and you could have collapse or sagging or all kinds of problems. You take that 1950s house that had support under the bathtub, now you fill the bathtub, get in it, it becomes an elevator.
SPEAKER_04:Right? Yeah, I've never heard that before.
SPEAKER_00:We see a lot of sagging roofs in Flatbush in Brooklyn. We always tell the clients if they want to expand their basements and have more space, call in the structural engineer first so he can tell you which walls have to stay, which beams are the low bearing beams and not do it the other way. And a lot of times the contractor will do what you ask them to do. But a couple of years later, that floor starts sagging. So we always tell the structural engineer first before the contractor.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we always recommend that they get permits, but the municipal departments have become so difficult and so time consuming that a lot of people sneak things through and the contractors know that. And so you'll get all kinds of substandard workmanship going on that once the drywall's up, once the paint is on, it's really hard to see.
SPEAKER_05:All
SPEAKER_02:right, next
SPEAKER_05:word. First time home buyer or millennial, which I take your pick. First time home buyer. What have we got? What's the first word? Anxiety. I heard.
SPEAKER_02:Lack of knowledge, lack of skills, fear. Usually the husband is on a conference call and the wife is scared to death because she's going to take care of the whole house.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting. Building superintendent.
SPEAKER_00:Handyman.
SPEAKER_04:Friend, foe. Depends. Depends. That's what I was expecting.
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean, basically, he's my access to the electric meters and to the boiler room or not. I mean, a lot of houses, we can't go on the roof. We can't see the meter rooms. Even in houses? Yes. Well, not in houses, but in a condo situation where everything is, all the gas meters are hidden somewhere.
SPEAKER_05:Well, that brings me to my next one, cedar roof. I mean, Summer Slate, there's a lot of asphalt roofs out there, but cedar roof is a badge of honor out here in Connecticut or out
SPEAKER_02:in Rhode Island. It used to be, it used to be. So cedar roof, first word. Not long lasting anymore. Not
SPEAKER_00:in New York City.
SPEAKER_02:No, we're importing just about everything from Canada and other places. And it's just not the same quality it used to be. And people are paying twice as much or three times as much for a roof that isn't going to last as long as in an asphalt roof. Wow.
SPEAKER_05:All right. Well, then for Jacqueline, brownstone. What have you got for me? Brownstone.
SPEAKER_00:Historic.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, that's a cop out. Give me something, you know, meaty. I knew that. Headache.
SPEAKER_00:They are. They can be. We do a lot of brownstones in Harlem and Brooklyn, and they have special contractors that work on the brownstones. And we always recommend that they use them. A little more money, but brownstones are unusual. You just can't have a lay person go in there and do work because of the architect design and some of the things you find there. You have to have someone that works specifically with those brownstones to do work and repair in them.
SPEAKER_05:Any difference between New York and Connecticut in terms of the laws Requirements, licensing, expectations. Are we more lax in one or the other? I mean, how do we compare even with Florida?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, with New York, when we would find a buried oil tank, people would say, who cares? Not a big deal. In Connecticut, it would have killed the deal. Now... Everyone wants them out of the ground, which of course makes sense. But that was always a problem. The licensing is a little bit different. There is a potential for reciprocity, but it's a little bit different. As I said before, the mold testing, I took the course, but I never went and took the test. But you have to be a certified mold tester to do mold testing in New York. We do a lot of inspections in Westchester. And so it's a little bit different. I can't do a radon testing using a continuous monitor in New York where I can use it in Connecticut because New York wants a piece of the laboratory. See, if I read the machine, I'm the laboratory. So there are differences. I have a supervisory license for pests. I can sign the paper in both states, but I'm not licensed in New York as a termite person.
SPEAKER_05:Got it. Asbestos. I love that one. Asbestos. Yeah. Everybody's new favorite word.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's overkill.
SPEAKER_00:I think so, too. If it's not disturbed, it's no harm to you.
SPEAKER_02:The only time I recommend removal is when it's on pipes. I don't care about ducting. I don't care about roofing or siding. I grew up on Long Island in a house that was sided with asbestos cement shingles. Nobody ever got asbestosis from it that I know of. But pipes leak, and we're dealing with a new generation of plumbers. And that generation of plumbers, their wives say, don't touch asbestos. So if you've got a leaky pipe and there's asbestos on it, the first thing the plumber is going to say, I'll come fix it as soon as you have it removed.
SPEAKER_04:The remediation of that in the city is very expensive.
SPEAKER_02:It is expensive everywhere. It becomes a Tyvek thing. You know, everybody's got respirators and Tyveks. You know, there's a reason why there are hardly any old plumbers anymore. They were dealing with lead. They were dealing with asbestos. They were smoking cigarettes. And then they got away from all those dangerous things and started using PVC glue. They're all dead. I thought they were
SPEAKER_05:all retired down in Florida drinking Mai Tais on the beach. I don't think so. They make so much money. They do. I'm in the wrong business.
SPEAKER_04:Plumbers make so much money. Yeah, they're all retired. We call some plumbers here for a job and they're like, we'll let you know if we can approve that. And they just, they don't have time. It's just like, oh my God.
SPEAKER_02:They're just paying for the tow away fees. Holy mackerel. They're making so
SPEAKER_05:much money. I think we need to talk more about asbestos. I don't want to just, I think that you make a very good point. Wrapping of the pipes is one of the critical points of every inspection. Another one is the, what are they? Eight inch square tiles that everybody's
SPEAKER_02:looking at. It's nonsense. The eight inch and the 12 inch tiles that had asbestos in it, you would have to scratch and sniff and snort it in order to get it into your body. I mean, it's totally ridiculous unless it's breaking up. If you've got a water problem in the basement, then it makes sense to encapsulate it after you deal with the water problem. But disposing it has become the biggest expense. That's crazy. And the glue that held it had asbestos in it. So I just recommend that they put another layer over it and be done with it.
SPEAKER_00:That's all. Just cover it.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So totally overblown. We've spent billions of dollars on asbestos removal for no reason whatsoever.
SPEAKER_04:But some co-ops, some of these co-ops and stuff, if you find it or if you're going to renovate that bathroom, you have to remove it. And that's just a rule, just how they feel. Yeah. And that's very expensive because you're trying to renovate an entire apartment and you can't even get started until you remove the asbestos in that bathroom. And that bathroom could take weeks. I mean, do you know that by the co-op rules going in?
SPEAKER_05:The rules?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because every building will have a alteration agreement. And in there are all the rules of everything. And it's pretty extensive.
SPEAKER_05:Do I hand that to Jacqueline before when she's making her inspection and say, these are the rules of the building?
SPEAKER_02:They don't give the condo paperwork fast enough.
SPEAKER_05:So
SPEAKER_02:you don't know those rules. Got it.
SPEAKER_05:Mold, as long as we're talking about asbestos, we got to talk about mold. Mold is the new dirty word.
SPEAKER_02:Well, but you know, once again, we have gone, the pendulum has gone way too far. We talk about moldy smells. We talk about a little bit of mold on a wall. You take detergent, you clean it up and you move on with your life. Unless you're getting sick in that house because there's a lot of mold, I think it's overblown. You see a moldy piece of sheetrock because it got wet, you cut it out and you look to see if the insulation is wet behind it and you replace that. But to bring in everybody with the Tyvek suits and the respirators to deal with two feet of mold is, once again, scaring the hell out of your client for no reason at all.
SPEAKER_00:We do recommend that they use the water bleach solution if it's a small area. And we tell them if you do that and it comes back again, then that means it might be behind and you need to do some testing. But people just get so afraid, again, that fear factor, and they just run with it and start spending all this money that might not even be necessary. In
SPEAKER_04:your industry, what are the next things that are coming down the pike that are going to be like, you're going to have to test for this, you're going to have to test for that? What are the next couple of things?
SPEAKER_05:I think air quality in the last few years has become bigger and bigger.
SPEAKER_02:A lot of realtors have asked me, do not offer mold testing to my clients. Don't even talk about it. When you talk about new things, we are now being asked Is there enough room in the panel box for an electric charger for my car? And? If there is, I say, yeah. Do I have enough power to power a charging station? How many
SPEAKER_04:amps or whatever do you need for a charging station?
SPEAKER_02:It depends on what you're charging, but generally 40 or 50. 40 or 50 amps.
SPEAKER_03:It's
SPEAKER_02:going to be a 220 line, but it's going to be 40 or 50
SPEAKER_05:breaker. How about solar and backup power? That's got to be a hot
SPEAKER_02:one. I have solar on my house, and I just put solar on the Belltown Firehouse. I'm waiting for Eversource to put the new meter in for them. But more and more, years ago when I had my first house, that my parents didn't like, I put in a swimming pool and I put in a plumbing solar system to heat the water in the pool. You never see that anymore, but for years there were water solar systems. It was piping up on the roof. Now with photovoltaics, it's a little bit different, but we're seeing more and more equipment, just like we're seeing more and more people are willing to spend money on geothermal and heat pumps. So I would say Heat pumps are one of the bigger things that are hitting the market now. Inverter technology that will go down to zero degrees and heat your house with 95 degree air so that all the things that we've learned about programming thermostats goes out the window because we're telling people leave it at 70 whatever you're comfortable at and just let it heat the house.
SPEAKER_00:In New York City, people are fascinated with having a digital copy of their property. We have an inspection package that includes a virtual tour and is starting to uptick. And with all the storms and for insurance purposes, people like the idea of having a digital copy of their co-op condo, their house. And that way they can send it to relatives, they can store it. So if they have any major catastrophe, they have a digital copy of their property.
SPEAKER_05:What is a digital copy? Is it like a slideshow or it's a video?
SPEAKER_00:It's a virtual tour. Okay. It's broken down into the different rooms and you can zoom in as close as a switch plate. And that's something we offer without inspection packages and you get it the same day as the inspection. And people love the idea of having that virtual tour.
SPEAKER_05:And for insurance purposes, I guess, you know, you have a record of what the house was like on that day.
SPEAKER_00:And our investors like it because that package comes with floor plans and the virtual tools. So they might be in Indiana, but they're buying a co-op in Manhattan and they take that virtual tool and the floor plans and they send it to their architect or their contractor and they can start working on the renovations.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. Love that. Is AI affecting your industry?
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_02:Not really, not yet, but I don't think that you can replace the knowledge that's in a good home inspector with AI, but the fact that there's so much good stuff on the internet that people can look at videos, that they can look at YouTube stuff, and if they're willing to do the research... they're going to feel a lot more comfortable because many of us are just like this podcast. We're trying to give people good information so that they're not freaking out about all this stuff.
SPEAKER_05:All right, Jacqueline, I want to go back to mold because it's a big deal. And I feel like some people might say, Steve said, Oh, it's, it's, uh, overblown, but I mean, I've, I've been in situations where they're, uh, I've been in situations where there's some mildew on the wall, and I agree with Steve. In most situations, we can address it with a bleach solution. But in some cases, for instance, the unfinished attic may have moisture in it, and therefore there's evidence of maybe black mold. What I typically see on the inspection report was possible mold in the attic requires further inspection. Possible issue with the roof requires additional inspection. Possible asbestos requires additional inspection, which annoys me as an agent because now I've got to order a bunch of specialists to come in and investigate all the things that I wanted my home inspector to do the first time around. So can we talk about... I know that's a lot to unpack. Can I jump in? First of all, it really is a big deal if it's a recurring problem, and sometimes it's not obvious, right?
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's up to the client. And when we see certain things and we think it might be What we think it is, we refer them to a mold company to do testing. You know, I would never discourage a client from having testing done because better safe than sorry. So we let them go to, we contract out for that. Let a mold person do mold because a mold person can look at it and tell you if it's mold or not before he starts his testing. So we leave the, let the professionals do what the professionals do. We don't make that call. The same thing with asbestos. If we feel a And if the client feels like they want to have it done, then we refer them to a specialist because I think it's important. Even with termite, I use a termite person because I want somebody that looks at termites every single day to do that termite inspection because he's going to see things that someone that sees termites once every three months is not going to see.
SPEAKER_05:Do you bring those with you to the inspection up front or do you evaluate the house and then recommend further testing?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it depends on what they ask for. So if they set up, we do it online. If they go in and they say, hey, well, certain mortgages, you know, they have to have termites testing done, FHA and VA mortgages. So they'll check they want termite. I contact them. I have the termite person come out. If we see something there and they think it's mold and it looks weird and they want mold testing, then I get on the phone and we set up for a mold test. to come out and do an assessment.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, the inspector often says, you know, these bathroom fans vent directly into the unfinished attic. And, you know, I think that's a
SPEAKER_02:concern. Yeah, it's a big problem. Let me jump in because you said a couple of things that I think need to be clarified. First of all, black mold. I would be just as concerned about blue mold, green mold, or yellow mold. Black mold has been the big bugaboo, but the reality is mold, there's thousands of different types of molds. Some of them are good, some of them are not so good, and some of them can kill you. But identifying what color it is is meaningless. because I'm just as concerned about white mold versus black mold versus anything else. So that's one thing. The other thing is bleach. Bleach is not always the answer. Many times it's detergent. Many times it's something that is made specifically to kill mold. And bleach is a very dangerous poison. And one of the things that a lot of people do is they get into their shower naked with a sponge with bleach on it and clean the shower curtain. You're exposing yourself to chlorine gas, and it's a poison. So we've got to be really careful with people doing their own thing. Okay. Now, the other thing is, we're generalists. We're called in to look at the inspection and look at the things that we look at on a day-to-day basis. And we recommend specialists when specialists are required. We don't pretend to be specialists. When you use that medical analogy before, if it was a heart thing, you would call a heart doctor after your general, your regular doctor took your pulse and checked your ears and checked your nose and all the rest of it. We're the first step because you typically can't afford to have all these specialists come in to do a home inspection and you can't get them to make one report. There have been companies in the past that have tried to do that. They're all gone. So, We're the first step, but we're not the end step. If there's an air conditioning problem, I'm going to recommend an air conditioner person. If I see termites, I'm going to recommend that. And I have the supervisory license for termites, but I'm going to recommend that somebody get a quote on treating it or fixing it.
SPEAKER_05:This has been a great show. Thank you. I'm going to hit the share screen button and go over a couple of things. First. This has been Burrows and Burbs. And you can find us at burrowsandburbs.com. And within a couple hours, this show will be up on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music. It'll be everywhere. And so hopefully about 5,000, 6,000 people will see this show in the next couple days and give you a call. I want to thank our sponsor, gracefarms.org. And if you go to our work and you look at teaandcoffee.com, They've got gift boxes and tea and coffee, and it's a nonprofit, and it goes to making the world a more sustainable and peaceful place. And next, I want to take you to pillar2post.com. I want to thank you, Jacqueline Gathers, Pillar to Post. This is where we find you and your company. You've been around, this company, you said you've been in the business eight years, but I think Pillar to Post has been around since the beginning of time, right?
SPEAKER_00:Long time.
SPEAKER_05:And they do Connecticut and New York. And can I also take you guys down to my beach house in Florida and Hilton Head and everywhere else too?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, all over the United States.
SPEAKER_05:All right, awesome. And Steve, are you part of a multinational organization as well? Steve Gladstone, Stone Hollow Inspection Services.
SPEAKER_02:No, we are a local family-run company in Connecticut, and we service Connecticut and Westchester County.
SPEAKER_05:And how about that roof we're seeing on the screen right now? That looks like a cedar roof. There is. Not as good as they used to be, but that one looks pretty good,
SPEAKER_02:huh? If they look great, I'm happy.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, okay. You know, you got to put a problem house on your website. Not one of these pretty Connecticut houses with an outstanding cedar roof. We need
SPEAKER_03:to see your horror stories.
SPEAKER_05:You need to put something upstairs. If you're buying this, you need to talk to us. The best part about Steve's website is it says it's the best looking home inspectors in Connecticut. I saw that and I had to laugh and I said, I'm going to hire this guy because at least he's going to be good looking.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And I was not disappointed. Thank you both. This is an awesome show. We're going to have you guys back. I don't know, maybe what we'll do is we'll bring in some really horror shows and have you guys react to them. Maybe that would be a fun show. But thank you both so much. Two of the best in the business. Pillow to Post, you've been a regular. We've had a regular relationship out here in Connecticut with Pillow to Post and Stone Hollow for 20 years. You guys are two of my go-tos and do a really great professional job. Thank you. I appreciate inviting us. buying a house without a home inspection from a professional team. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00:You're welcome.
SPEAKER_05:And Roberto, good
SPEAKER_00:to see you again.
SPEAKER_05:Try and keep cool, will you? I love the fact that you started the show saying that you're trying to price a condo in New York and the air conditioning isn't working. And your solution was, you know, you might want to put this on in the fall. RobertoCabrera.com for all your New York City real estate needs. Bye,
SPEAKER_04:everybody. See you, guys.
