The Biggest Bottlenecks To Profitability with Dr Rahul Doshi [CPD Available]

UK Dentists: Collect your verifiable CPD for this episode here >>> https://courses.dentistswhoinvest.com/smart-money-members-club

———————————————————————
If your dental marketing is “working” but your books are not filling, the problem is rarely the ads. We sit down with Dr Ravil Doshi, a dentist who built a highly successful practice and achieved a multi-seven figure exit, to get practical about what drives real growth in a UK dental practice: conversion, culture, and systems that do not collapse when one person is off sick.

We unpack why practice owners so often feel stuck after investing in SEO, pay-per-click, and social media ads, and how to build a patient journey where every team member knows what to say, when to say it, and how to move the patient forward. We also explore the idea of a communication stack, how to spot bottlenecks using simple KPIs, and where AI can already help by reviewing call quality and identifying missed opportunities.

Associates get plenty here too. We talk about the invisible “treatment plan wall” that caps earning potential, how to present comprehensive options ethically, and how to build trust so patients do not feel they are being sold to. Finally, we get into bigger-picture practice management: growth systems, the role of vision, when buying another practice is actually the right move, and what it takes to build an associate-led practice even with as few as three surgeries.

———————————————————————
Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.

Transcript

Welcome, Guest, And CPD

Dr James 0:00

Another episode of Dentist Who Invest podcast today. I'm joined by Dr. Rahul Doshi. Dr. Rahul is a dentist who is very successful with his own dental practice. He worked towards and eventually achieved a multi-seven figure exit. Now, Dr. Rahul shares his knowledge by coaching and mentoring to other dentists who are on that journey as well, whether they're working towards exit themselves or they just want to leverage their business a little bit more to get back to time and life. This episode will be valuable whether you're an associate or a principal because we're going to be covering some pointers that are useful to both those parties in this episode. As ever, you can claim your CPD for this episode within the official Dentists Who Invest Smart Money Members Club. Smart Money Members Club also includes multiple mini courses and webinar series on finance for dentists, including how to become as tax efficient as possible, as well as understanding investing. All of this content counts as verifiable CPD, and you can download your certificates there and then on completion of each lesson. In addition to this, we also include a whopping 10% discount on your dental indemnity and a 5% discount on lab bills for dental principals, amongst other perks and discounts for members. Please use the link in the description to claim your verifiable CPD for this episode. Dr. Rahul, we know each other from the internet, I suppose you could say, uh, given that we got to talking over Facebook some time ago. But what I was very interested to learn more and more and more about is how you help Dennis whenever it comes to leveraging themselves out of their business a little bit more. And I understand you've got a little bit of a formula to doing this. Is that fair to say, Rahul?

A Formula That Stays Bespoke

Dr Rahul 1:43

Yeah, the formula is there, but it's almost like a guideline of what people need to do. Um, and then it becomes very bespoke to that specific practice, and that's really important. Um, because not all formulas will be suitable or exactly the same way for every single practice. So having tailor-made for that specific patient type, um, um team, the type of dentistry that they do, the type of dentistry they want to do is super important.

Dr James 2:11

Yeah, 100%. And I've actually been there myself a little bit. It's like that's where the skill comes in, I guess. Because if it was just a sh uh a cookie-cutter formula, well then you could just give someone a PDF of a protocol and they could follow it, right? But it's not quite as simple as that. It's the same with dentistry as well. Having a protocol for an implant is completely different to actually doing an implant, of course. It's an adjunct. So I can completely, completely, completely understand that. And maybe what it could be good to do is talk a little bit. Maybe where we should kick things off here on this podcast is maybe talk a little bit about what you see dentists struggling out there with whenever it comes to their business, both associates who can think of themselves as a business within a business, and also principals as well.

Dr Rahul 2:58

Sure. So let's start with principles. This is probably a little bit easier. Principles come to me because they are um investing in the marketing. The marketing isn't actually bringing the type of patient that they want to see, and therefore there is a conversion issue. The conversion issue probably exists because there isn't a really uh sophisticated sales journey, communication journey, patient journey, or patient interaction that actually tries to look at every single patient type to get them to become a patient. Um, and the reason for that often then goes back to um the team. The team aren't actually um the way probably they probably need to behave in a in an aligned manner towards a specific vision um with a specific culture. And that's often the reason why things don't work out. So eventually it always falls back onto creating an amazing team, a high performance team that actually is really aligned to growing the practice. So you're not just actually pulling the team to grow the practice, but actually they are working with you to take the practice aligned to your vision and are really motivated with the vision and part of the vision, and and and then you can actually put in the patient journey and then switch on the marketing and take the ROI of the marketing spent to another level and then get the type of patients you want. Hope that makes sense.

Dr James 4:31

It it it absolutely makes sense. And listen, you're preaching the choir a little bit on that one because I have friends who run marketing companies, and the classic tug-of-war against, I guess, of energies between the marketing companies and the dental practices themselves is whenever the marketing companies generate the leads, the dental practices say the lead quality is bad, but the marketing companies say that the front of house team aren't always converting them as well as they should be. And the answer usually, in essence, lies somewhere between those two. Uh the actual truth is kind of somewhere between those two things. But what what we can do is Dennis is definitely maximize our odds, right, of being able to convert those leads, whatever quality they are, and at least we can then say, right, we've tidied up on this, basically. But we'll we'll come back to that in just a second. Maybe it could be good to talk about the associates briefly, what they struggle with.

Dr Rahul 5:22

Sure, actually, and before we come to the associates, let's just go back to one more step that is important in this space, and that is actually we actually teach them how to look at marketing properly, how to actually write their ads or how they should look at ads written by their agencies, how to look at SEO campaigns, how to look at pay-per-click campaigns, how to look at um social media ads, how to look at social media, so that when they're working with actual agencies, they can actually hold the agencies accountable and also now take ownership and control, as opposed to often the feeling is that if they invest in something, whether it's um um anything, whether it's an equipment or whether it's a marketing agency, they feel that suddenly there'll be an increase in upturn, in revenue, in new patients, etc. And that's not necessarily the case. Here they can take actually they can outsource everything, but also be in control as well.

Dr James 6:16

Ooh, okay, nice. Makes complete sense. And yeah, maybe we should uh we should we should cover those associates very briefly, and then I don't I'm actually itching to ask a few things about that, but yeah, maybe we should cover those associates very briefly.

Dr Rahul 6:29

Yeah, and with the associates, really, they are sometimes lost in the direction of where they want to head to. That's often the main thing once we fix that. The second thing is actually the communication to actually um present the most comprehensive treatment plan to their patients, aligned to the style of dentistry that they want to do. So you'll see some dentists want to do more implants, some want to do more cosmetic dentistry, some want to do more aligner treatment, some just want to do general dentistry. And how do they do more of it? Or why don't the patients go ahead with their treatment plans that they suggest? And often they are limited to suggesting um this limited amount of treatment plans because they are in that uncomfortable zone of presenting treatment plans over a specific value. So everybody has a wall, a wall of um a barrier, shall I say, to the amount of a treatment value that they are happy presenting to a patient. For some dentists, it's 500 pounds, some 2,000 pounds, some five, some 10, some 15, some 20, some 30. How do you break through the barrier to then give the most comprehensive treatment plan that's ethical um that will be really suitable for the patient that the patients then say yes to?

Mapping Bottlenecks With Simple KPIs

Dr James 7:48

You know, there's a really uh well, actually, before I jump into that, just to comment on what you've just said, it's it it there's always there's an amount of money in everybody's head, and it's different for each one of us, that we think to ourselves, oh shit, that's a lot of money, right? And it's a subconscious thing more than more than anything else. And whilst it's not to say that we shouldn't listen to that to a degree, because ultimately there's going to be a limit somewhere, we also need to realise that it is a subjective thing and it may not be accurate if we think that, yeah. So busting through that is actually one of the biggest things that you can keep that can keep you where you are by way of maintaining you at a certain income, because all our brains, every single one of us, our brains are calibrated to believe and expect we should earn a certain level of income. And the moment we bust out of that or go above that, we feel slightly uncomfortable. So I guess a big part of that is realising that's part of the process and journey, and having someone like yourself can be very reassuring because you can say, Hey, do you know what this is actually fine? And for the level of work that you're doing, this is what people would charge, and everything along those lines, and that can make a huge difference. It's slot, it sounds slightly wishy-washy, but it can definitely make a massive difference, and I guess that would apply to the the principles as well as the associates, of course, as well. It lives inside all of our heads, every anybody who charges people that lives in your head to a degree. But yes, anyway, back to the principles because one thing I was itching to ask you based on what you were saying just a second ago, is how can you tell that your team are not necessarily as how can I say this, adequately skilled as they should be when it comes to converting those leads into bumzone seats in the chair. Any red flags.

Dr Rahul 9:35

Okay, so the the the important part is that if you are reliant on a single team member um within a practice, and and that's often the case, it might be in practices such as the treatment coordinated, might be the reception, or it might be the dentist themselves, then suddenly you have a bottleneck of who can convert. That's the first thing. If you then if instead, if you create a journey where actually every single person is involved in actually can talking to the patient, but all aligned. So everybody knows what they're saying, when they're saying it, what you know, um, and and what to say at any moment in time. You then create what you call a communication stack where patients are going through a journey, understanding snippets of information aligned to the type of treatment that they are probably looking for. So when they come to the end of that journey, they totally understand everything. So what you're then looking at is really at every single phase, how does that journey change and evolve? And you're looking at every stage. So you do look at metrics at every stage, right from reception to TCO, TCO to dentist, dentist to conversion, and then you'll figure out exactly where those bottlenecks are uh in terms of conversion.

Where AI Helps Calls Today

Dr James 10:48

Interesting. Okay, so those are the those are the red flags, so to speak. And I I actually have a little side note, uh, a side tangent, Aku, uh, on this. How do you think AI is gonna help us deal with those things? Or do you think it's at that level yet? Because AI can remove the bottleneck if it can handle multiple calls at once, in theory.

Dr Rahul 11:06

AI can help understand the quality of the call. So that's what that's available right now. Many entities are actually promoting that right now, where the calls are screened, you get an idea of whether you've built trust, you've built a relationship, you've understood the patient, whether you've given correct options, you've then whether you've closed appropriately, and whether the patient books ahead or not. And then they'll figure out if they don't book, what could be the reasons why they haven't booked, and they give suggestions. So that is where AI helps. If the AI takes over the call, that might be initially challenging, we're probably not there yet, but it probably will evolve to that eventually in the future, where the actual tone, the voice, the relationship building is really smooth and seamless.

Hiring Signals That Matter Most

Dr James 11:54

Gotcha. All right, cool. So the very first thing, in your opinion, or one of the biggest things that you would suggest to people is to remove the bottleneck. And I I I I agree with that, right? Because the receptionist is wearing so many different hats. She's trying to keep the patients, he or she is trying to keep the patients happy, uh, and they are uh obviously uh booking people back in, uh, you know, rearranging appointments as they need to need to, and in addition to that, they're also handling lead flow as well. So it makes complete sense that this is just not gonna work. Okay, cool. So that's the biggest bottleneck. And then how do we qualify the people that we're gonna hire to handle these roles? How do we qualify them? What should we look for in terms of them being able to in terms of their CVs that we know that they're gonna be able to be adept at this at this job? Any green flags that you can think of?

Dr Rahul 12:43

So actually, and then we go to the green flags.

Dr James 12:46

Yeah, okay, red flags and green. Let's do it that way. Let's do it that way.

Dr Rahul 12:50

Red flags are, and I get this, you know, the first thing I look at is how often have they moved from job to job. So people who've been at a job every year at a different place, you know that there is something that's making them move every single time. So that's a big red flag to me. The green flag is really somebody who just shows attitude, commitment, who actually wants to be there, wants to improve, and is and shows passion and excitement in your conversations. Or if you ask them to come over to spend half a day to see how your practice works, and they'll be more than keen to do that, and they want to help out and it'll improve. So that's those are massive green flags. So I I I I don't really look at the skill level because skill can be taught, but the attitude and commitment can't.

Smart Money Members Club Offer

Dr James 13:34

Yeah, you know, there's a very interesting Gary V podcast I was listening to once. Shout out Gary Gary V if anybody knows him, and he was like, he would hire people with A-grade attitudes and B grade skill sets if it came to that all day long, uh, or at least because he knows that with a great attitude the skill set can evolve. Whereas someone with an A-grade skill set and a C grade attitude, it's just not gonna work because yes, they might be good, but as things move on and develop and they need to learn new stuff, well, they're not gonna be as adept at that or willing to do that because of just because of their personality effectively. So I definitely think that's that's that's that's certainly a very valuable thing to say. Okay, so that that's for the principles whenever it comes to the whole how can we say this? Uh yeah, you know, removing the bottleneck and getting the most out of our marketing and everything along those lines, and it makes complete sense. It's it's just it's so valuable to just have it laid out and pinpointed like this is exactly what usually goes wrong in your experience. Would you say that that's the main one or any other things people can improve on a tighten up on to get the most out of their marketing? UK Dentists, Dentists Who Invest now has an official platform where you can learn about finance and obtain UK compliant, verifiable CVD at the same time. The only platform that exists on which you can do both. The Smart Money Members Club has hundreds of hours of mini courses, webinar series, and live day recordings on all things finance slash tax efficiency for UK dentists. This includes complete courses on how tax works for UK dentists, finance so that you can invest and grow your own money, business so you can improve your profitability as an associate or principal, and for those out there that want it, there's also a mini course and how you can responsibly enter the crypto space using measured amounts of capital. I've gathered this content from the best of the best I could find in each respective area so that you know that this is how people at the forefront of each field advise their clients. The Smart Money Members Club also contains discounts on common things that UK dentists need to pay for on a regular basis. This includes a whopping 10% discount on dental indemnity, the offer to beat your income protection deal no matter what you're paying, and for the principals out there, 5% discount on lab bills and 10% discount on practice insurance. These are designed to offer hundreds, if not thousands, in annual savings. The purpose of this members club is to not only boost your monthly income but also manage your outgoings as much as possible and therefore create more profit. To celebrate the launch of the Smart Money Members Club, and given that the CPD deadline is coming up soon, I've decided to offer the first month of this platform entirely for free. This offer will end in the coming weeks as soon as the current CPD cycle is up. To collect your CPD for this podcast episode using the Smart Money Members Club, feel free to use the link in the description of this podcast.

Dr Rahul 16:25

I I I think yeah, I think what I mentioned was the three things. And I think understanding marketing, most people don't understand marketing, and I alluded to that earlier. They literally think that they look at either an ad on either Facebook or get a recommendation or they listen to somebody and they trust a lot, a lot of money to them on a monthly basis, hoping, and it's a hope that they will get the right type of patients. But if they start understanding marketing, if they're understanding what the actual headline should be, the description should be, what the actual um plan should be, how the actual stats work, what stats to look at, what stats not to look at, then they are actually become you know in control and in tune. The actual um marketeers actually then start respecting those principles and work harder. It's almost congruent to lab work. When dentists send good impressions or scans to the lab, the lab will send back good work. And if they are critical of what the um um technician is doing, they'll send good work. If the dentist is laid back and the scans or impressions are poor, you're gonna get poor work. Um and you're just hoping that the work will be okay. So it's a similar analogy.

Dr James 17:34

Makes sense. And then let's just briefly refer back to the associates for two seconds because you just uh like I also believe, you believe that communication is the biggest thing that helps them whenever it comes to whenever it comes to being able to improve their income or improve the the their profitability. And of course that's not the only thing. Obviously, you have to be really good at clinical dentistry and do right by the patient as well, but you literally just looking at this purely from the point of view of an economics uh standpoint. Communication is the one for you, which I which I also agree with. What what are what are in your experience, what are the associates doing that stops them from hitting that next level whenever it comes to income? Anything specific or any common clangers, I guess, that seem to occur in your experience?

Dr Rahul 18:22

Yeah, so I mean two or three things. One is actually a mindset thing you mentioned earlier on. So they may have this mindset issue that um there is a limit to what they can present. The second is actually creating a structure, a system of how they communicate with all the patients. And it's almost like going through a journey that they actually have with a patient that they repeat again and again. Um, they're building that trust, building the relationship. They often miss that out. So people don't go ahead or purchase anything when they don't have a relationship. I'm not talking about building social relationships, I'm talking about building relationships of trust, knowledge, experience, and guiding the patient to exactly what they are, what they want. And also, sales now is such a big study that most patients know when they're being sold. So when when communication isn't done in an um ethical way where you really care about the patients, patients can see through that. And that's a massive red flag where people will walk away because they feel that being sold to. So it's removing the sales out of that communication and really looking at being interested in the patient before actually um presenting treatment plans.

Systems That Create Practice Growth

Dr James 19:34

Lovely Jovely. And maybe a good cool thing to cover right now would be aside from the marketing side of things, which is obviously very important for principals, what other bottlenecks do you feel they come up against whenever it comes to improving their practice or what are the common issues that you see them struggle with aside from the marketing side of things?

Dr Rahul 19:52

So when people look at systems within a practice, they're often looking at operational systems and looking at efficiencies, and the focus is always on the how how do they potentially reduce expenses or the overheads. But really is to create systems that encourage growth, growth in all areas of the practice. And how do you create systems that encourage growth within the practice in all facets of how the practice works? And that then actually leads to a the practice evolving on a constant basis, changing, and that change will obviously lead to the practice earning more money.

Dr James 20:27

Are you a fan of the emith?

Dr Rahul 20:29

Um, yeah, working on the business as opposed to in the business, absolutely.

Dr James 20:33

Great book. Every business owner needs to read that. Did you know there's a dental version as well? Yeah, I I I didn't know that, yes. Oh, you did or didn't? Sorry, I didn't catch that. No, no, I did, I did. Oh, you did, you did, yeah. There you go. I don't I know of it, I know that it exists. I believe it's written by uh someone based in America.

Dr Rahul 20:52

So hopefully it's Michael Gerber read it and wrote the original version, and there are variances of that because he gave out licenses to different um um sort of uh professions to actually work with him and take that sort of um ownership of that.

Scaling By Career Stage And Exit

Dr James 21:07

Ah, I didn't I didn't know that, so that's the history of it basically. Yeah, there's there's a dental version, so shout out to that. If anybody's not read the emoth, I'd highly encourage them to read it because you'll see there's there's there's how you see business before it and how you see business after it, in my opinion. And that's coming from the person who had spent a lot of time around people who had read it. And I I personally thought I spent so much time with people who had read it that I was like, okay, I kind of get what it's gonna say. And then that put me off reading it for like two years, and then I did eventually read it, and then I was like, okay, this is actually amazing. I wish I would have done this sooner because I appreciated it in so much more detail, basically. Uh so yeah, shout out that book for anybody who's a business owner, not even just a business owner as well, associates. I think should read it. I think everybody should read it, basically. But yeah, very good book. But yes, um, where were we? So for you, systems and processes are the big bottleneck for for. uh practice owners out there. And Rahul, one thing I'd really love to get into as well, which I think will be really interesting, how does your methodology or your is is coaching a a word you could use, I guess, really? Absolutely. Yeah. So how does how does it how does it change based on where someone is at relative to their life cycle as a dentist, I guess? Like how does it change if someone's just starting out? They've just they're yet to buy a practice or they've just bought one, maybe middle of their career, or maybe coming more towards exit.

Dr Rahul 22:32

Yeah, so I think the key thing is that the people who've just bought a practice, they're often inundated in all the operational systems and they don't focus on the team. They don't focus on the sales they don't focus on the marketing. They don't focus on the growth. And they've been taught certain things. But when you've actually done it for decades and actually done it for multiple practices of your own or done it for other practices and you've seen the success, you know exactly what to install to make these practices actually increase their revenue by triple, quadruple or five times very easily. And that just changes really who they are in terms of as people, in terms of the time off that they have because now they've got that certainty of income that's coming in which they didn't previously for the practices that are established that they often plateau. And when you plateau and there are practices around you that are growing suddenly that becomes a disparity between your practice and theirs because theirs is growing yours is flatlining and there's a differential that differential keeps on growing. So it's really now knowing what you need to do to actually go back and become even better than you were before. So you're not only um uh closing that gap but actually even overtaking it significantly so that then helps that practice speed the competition in the area and finally most practice owners actually the exit is a big thing because they've worked hard in the practice for so many years. You want to get the max value out of it. And the max value you get is really by increasing that epith. The epitha is focused on increasing the turnover and of course you can reduce the expenses but really is how do you create a sustainable business that people will love to buy and that not only increases the actual epith but the multiple as well because the practice will look be looked upon favorably if all the facets of the vision the culture the sales the actual marketing the KPIs are all in place.

Second Practice Or Optimise First

Dr James 24:28

Okay boom good good to know good to know and then there was oh there was what was it that was in my head just a second ago that is going to annoy the heck out of me just to follow on from that I think I think the yeah having one mind on the having one eye on the eBit that is obviously what's going to allow you to improve your multiple and then get the biggest you know get a bigger exit. Not that it's all about that obviously you want to safeguard the patients as well or that was it it was it's just come back to me. The age world question I think a lot of dentists struggle with and it'll be interesting to hear your take on this you know you've got a principal reasonably successful practice going well and they start to think to themselves okay how can I take this to the next level what what should I do and I think a lot of dentists and principals out there equate that with let me buy another practice right and sometimes I see their practice and I think to myself do you know what you probably make just as much money if not more if you just really nailed some basic things in your first practice right like you're buying this other practice you're taking on a whole load more debt you're trying to make an extra hundred grand but there's three hundred grand of profit up in the same practice with virtually no increase in your overheads whatsoever.

Vision As The Growth Engine

Dr Rahul 25:42

What's your thoughts on that Rahul when is when is the right time to purchase a practice versus just focusing on what you have yeah the right time is actually when you when you think you've maxed out what you've done in your practice in terms of you know that you're charging um your treatment plans are comprehensive your marketing is really smooth and slick your team are really slick you've got systems for leadership you've got systems for sales you've got systems for marketing and more importantly you have a vision a vision that actually aligns you your team and your patients everybody knows where you're going. So it's it's say we look at an any industry outside um the dental area and say we can look at cars. So if you look at certain brands you will know what those brands represent you know what a Ford represents to people you know what a Mercedes represents to people you know what a Rolls Royce represents to people and not just the people who are looking to buy but people working there. And once you've got that vision which is formulated and you've got all these sales marketing and the team working well that's then the right time to look at something else. But often people don't get those things and and actually one of the key things in the formula that I haven't mentioned is the vision. The vision is one of the key things that we work on we challenge practice owners on and that's where 90% or 95% of the people are going wrong. And that's where actually us being involved with them in actually creating a laser sharp vision that really everybody feels aligned to is one of the key things that actually is this bug to their growth.

Building An Associate-Led Practice

Dr James 27:13

Nice. And you know another thing that comes up as well which is very popular amongst principals and a lot of them would love to know how this works is a lot of them want to leverage their businesses a little bit more to get back a bit more time. Right. And I think a lot of them sign up to having a business with that view in mind where they can uh separate time and money a little bit but it doesn't always pan out and maybe sometimes they're working just as much or more than ever maybe earning a little bit more money but even not even necessarily that always being the case as well a lot of them feel that the way that you can progress things that they can progress their practice more towards them having a little bit more of their life and time back is to make it more associate led. But I've heard a lot of principals who come to me and say James I don't think my practice can be associate led I I just don't think that that's possible where I am or based on my location or everything along those lines and things well just stuff like that things along those lines effectively so I guess what I'm asking you Rahul is how practiceable or realistic is it that your average Joblogs dentist can achieve an associate led practice or is that really only reserved for the the very lucky few principals that eventually make it there? Is the difference the setup the location things that are beyond their control or do you think in your opinion that actually most dentists can achieve it with the right systems and processes and enacting the things that you talked about just a second ago?

Dr Rahul 28:48

Okay that's a really great question. And actually so when I had my own practices I I I was one of the pioneers of crossmaking dentistry I paid a lot of national media including TV series of people thought they were coming to see me. And yet I the patients were not just seeing me they were seeing my team my associates working there. So when when somebody who's well known is actually giving their patients to other dentists can do it then general dentists giving other their patients to their their colleagues is is pretty straightforward. What there are there are two aspects of it one aspect is you as a practice owner need to be confident that the associates are really good clinically. And that means that they need clinical mentoring um and that's one of the things that we do help with. But the second thing is also there's a mindset thing that the principals have my patients only want to see me. They've been with me with me for the last 10 years 15 years 20 years. They won't see anybody else and how do those conversations occur and then those principles are limited to doing not the type of dentistry that they want to do but just servicing that relationship as opposed to maybe doing the type of dentistry that they want to do more of I hope that makes sense.

The Three Surgery Reality Check

Dr James 30:04

It does yeah so you're saying that it's a lot more achievable than people necessarily realize and a lot of it is how they think and even just I think it's just routine as well they're just so used to and trained to expect to go to the clinic and have to work uh nine to five that they maybe don't even question that reality sometimes like is there actually something else out there that's better for me or can be done so I think it starts with realizing that it's possible first and then you can start to explore it. Do you think there's a magic number in terms of formulas in a dental practice in terms sorry do you think there's a magic formula or number in terms of number of surgeries in a dental practice there's like a minimum expected number of surgeries that someone can have in order for them to become associate led like three surgeries, four surgeries or what are your thoughts on that?

Dr Rahul 30:51

Yeah I I think you need to have three surgeries really before you start um bringing associates in because I I see a lot of people where they work in their own practice and they work as associates elsewhere because the cash flow in their own practice is limited. So the number one thing is that they have to become the their practice has to really be making money before even they think of associates and relinquish all their associates jobs themselves elsewhere. That's the number one rule. The second thing is that you need three rooms one for what you do one for potentially hygienist therapists to take over some of the basic stuff and then you're ready for the associate to come in. And sometimes it it's easier even for the principal to work from a couple of rooms where they dovetail between different rooms but that's another story.

Dr James 31:38

Nice okay and in your experience what a out of your experience out of looking at lots of different dental practices what is the smallest dental practice that you've seen achieve associate led for you know associate led status as it would you say it's like three four surgeries or does it need you need to have minimum three three will work I've I've seen I I've seen practices where they've actually quadrupled their growth by having just three rooms so um three rooms is definitely achievable.

Dr Rahul 32:06

It's not impossible and also remember as the practice grows um not in the um um number of surgeries but as you grow by your revenue grows and the style of dentistry you you do grows and your marketing starts working the principals also will be looking at doing less days and getting time off so although also also that builds up sort of capacity within the practice as well but obviously four and more is ideal but the three will definitely work.

Where To Find Ravil

Dr James 32:34

But that's so valuable to know because I see so many principals out there who are like oh I've only got three or four surgeries I need more than that to get to get the margins that I need to become associate led. So you saying that actually there are people out there who's achieved this is definitely a little bit of a mindset shift I'm sure for some of the listeners to this podcast. Ravel you've been very generous with your time and knowledge and wisdom today on the podcast if anybody wants to find out more about you and what they do and what you do sorry where are they best off finding you?

Dr Rahul 33:02

Absolutely they can go to the website um which is dentalwealthbuilder.com they can go to um our Instagram um that's mine and my wife's and um babner's is dr dot bavner dot doshi um and and they can even check out our books on Amazon which is Lead2Grow um and dental alchemy and and those are super popular books on um the systems that we've talked about and leadership and growing practices through the team.