0 to 9 Dental Practices: Here’s How I Did It with with Dr Ahmed Giaziri

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A Friday afternoon phone call. An unannounced CQC inspection. A notice of decision to close that meant it would be illegal to treat patients. Ahmed Giaziri went from running his first practice to facing every principal’s nightmare, and the way he rebuilt afterwards is one of the most practical UK dentistry business stories we’ve heard. 

We talk through Ahmed’s route into dentistry, from a strict upbringing in London and a near-miss with medicine to studying at Trinity College Dublin, then working as an associate in Australia before returning to the UK. He explains why he bought his first private practice in 2013, what he got wrong about management and compliance, and how a malicious complaint escalated into a CQC shutdown scenario during renovations. We also unpack how Denplan supported the turnaround, and what that taught him about systems, cash reserves, and leadership. 

From there, we get into the mechanics of scaling: why a simple NHS and plan model can still be highly profitable, what he looks for in repeat income, and how he uses marketing to grow private dentistry on top. Ahmed shares how goodwill lending works in UK dental practice finance, why banks back dentistry differently to other sectors, and how he thinks about buying the freehold and separating property into a limited company for longer-term passive income. We finish with delegation, ops structure, mentoring associates to improve retention, and the honest question of how sustainable growth feels when you’re still in clinic.

 
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Transcript

CPD, Discounts And Quick Welcome

Dr James 1:37

Also includes money, including comments, principle, as well as understanding listing, all this content comments as verifiable CPD, and you can download your certificate on these listing. Any discount, we also include a walking 10% discount on your demand date, 75% discount on lab bills for demon principles, amongst other parks and discounts for members. Please use the link in the description to claim your verifiable CPD for this episode. Ahmed, I've always had trouble pronouncing your last name. Is it Giaziri? Giaziri.

Dr Ahmed 2:19

Yeah, you're right. First time, Giaziri.

Dr James 2:20

Giaziri, Giaziri, hey, okay. I should have just stuck with that. I should have stuck to my guns with Giazeri. There we go. Ahmed, how are you today?

Dr Ahmed 2:26

Very good. How are you, James?

Dr James 2:28

I'm amazing, man. I'm full of beans. I'm really excited for this podcast. Ahmed, you're you're you're you're you're out and about on Facebook, so you might have a few uh people who recognize you in the audience on this podcast today. Maybe so. But for those that don't, if we had a little bit of a bio and an introduction, I think that might be a nice place to begin.

Dr Ahmed 2:49

Yeah. Um parents are Libyan. Um, they came to England in the 80s. Um, I grew up in London. Um never really knew what I wanted to do in life. Um had a quite a strict upbringing. The highlight of my my life as a kid was watching Match of the Day on a Saturday. And um, before Match of the Day, a lot of your older kind of um group members know that casualty was on before match of the day. And so when teachers asked me what I wanted to do um uh when I left school, realized I wasn't gonna make it as a professional footballer, so I said I wanted to be a paramedic. Um I was getting quite good grades, so they said, why don't you just do medicine? And I said, Okay, I'll do medicine. Um didn't get into medicine, uh and it still annoys me too today. Uh and um the advice I was given was don't even put dentistry as a second choice in my UCAS form because it might show people I'm not fully committed to medicine. And so I didn't even get into dentistry in England, and I my dad's secretary, she was Irish, and she said, Why don't you apply in the Republic of Ireland? Um, so I applied for medicine and dentistry in Ireland and got an offer for dentistry in Trinity College in Dublin.

Dr James 4:25

Oh wow, no less, man. That's uh that's uh pretty prestigious, right? In Ireland.

Dr Ahmed 4:31

Yeah, I I had no clue about Ireland or Trinity because uh I I started doing dentistry reluctant, reluctantly, and doing Trinity went to Trinity, and um yeah, I used to go out in uh bars and clubs, and people asked me, you know, where do I study say Trinity? And they're all like you know, going, Wow, you posh so and so, and then just walk off like this. And I didn't realize how what a prestigious university it was. I didn't realize it was seen as the Oxbridge of Ireland, but yeah, I I really didn't appreciate how lucky I was, and I was just kind of there, just a little bit down in the dumps that I wasn't doing medicine, and um yeah, it's it's kind of been kind of the story of my life. I just kind of accidentally got into uh practices and business um without having a strategy, and you know, I I do admire people who are ambitious and have a strategy, but my motivation seems to be um I kind of find myself in situations a little bit over my head, and if I just work hard just to make the best of a situation that I found myself in.

Dr James 5:51

And it's not a bad strategy because you do do a lot of growing when you do that to yourself and you bite off just a little bit more than you can chew, right?

Dr Ahmed 5:59

Yeah, I I think so. I mean, I think there are people who just are naturally motivated, they get up at five in the morning and you know, they really attack life. Um I I just find myself in fortunate situations, um able to invest or you know, do do a difficult course, and I just motivate myself to to just be able to complete um the course or try and uh complete any problem that you know I find myself in. Um I've always found that I used to be the worst of the best in school or university. They always always put me in the top set in maths or science, and I used to be surrounded by geniuses who found it very easy, and it was always my kind of ambition just to stay with those guys, and that's where my work ethic came.

Australia, Returning Home And Buying In

Dr James 7:01

Hey man, I mean, like I said, there's no, you know what, it's interesting because those sorts of circumstances can do that to you, and what I've always found is that if you do find something unbelievably easy, well, it can make you one of the things, one of the results of that is it can make you complacent, which is generally speaking, a trait which is not that conducive to pushing and being successful in life in the long run. So actually, maybe there were some valuable lessons in there, which it sounds like there were. And of course, you're the brain power. You were up there like punching with the big boys, you know what I mean. But you actually came out with a really cool work ethic as well, which is amazing. And that, of course, has led to what you've since achieved whenever you left university, acquiring zero well, your first practice going from zero practices to one practice to nine practices, which is really, really, really flipping cool. And there's gonna be a lot of wisdom in your head with regards to that journey that can only ever be learned through directly experiencing that, and that's why the listener is gonna benefit an absolute ton today from this stuff. So, listen, thank you for sharing your story. And then you told me off camera before we jumped on, got your first practice relatively late at 32.

Dr Ahmed 8:14

Yeah, that's right. I mean, I I I worked, I came back to London after graduation, um, worked two years, a new NHS contract came in in 2006. I didn't get a good offer, so I went traveling with a friend, worked in Australia for a few years, and to be honest, I was loving life in Australia um as an associate. Um, had no ambition to own a practice. Um, the weather was good, the money was good. Uh at 5 p.m., you just wanted to go out to the beach or meet friends. Um so yeah, I think ambition for me is almost weather dependent. Um when I'm living in a in a nice climate, I don't really want to work hard. But around 2012-13, um, you know, my father and other family were trying to trying to emotionally trying to drag me back to the UK. And I, you know, I did I did relent and came back. Um my father's quite a successful businessman himself. Um Libya is an oil-rich country, and you know, he he he was involved in working for oil companies, um, selling to Shell BP. But he he helped me with the deposit of my first practice. So I do appreciate I was very very fortunate um in that I had that family help. Um, but he convinced me to come back. And 2013 there wasn't many private jobs for associates, so I did buy a private practice because, in effect, I had to buy myself a private job and um yeah, just saw a practice, big plan list. Um and I did like the idea of having a secure monthly income from uh from a den plan practice. And at that stage, I I had my implant MSc. Um, I thought I could add to this practice, uh, started teaching myself orthodontics, just taught myself everything that the practice wasn't really doing much of, uh, with the security that it was actually very profitable from day one. So even if I couldn't add to it, I I should be okay. And then the I was enjoying life actually running one practice. I was very naive. Um, I think you know these Facebook groups like like your group, James, they weren't really there back in 2013. I didn't really know what I was doing, and um, and um one malicious complaint um led to a CQC inspection in 2015, which I failed. And um I was actually on holiday when the inspection happened, it was an unannounced uh inspection, and um got a text message from my receptionist. We didn't have a practice manager. That was uh another example of my naivety, um, saying the CQC have just been in, and I was in Tenerife at the time. Uh and I was like, uh, what happened? She goes, I'll tell you when you come back, and I was just like that usually means it's bad.

Dr James 11:41

The news never waits until you come back, the only ever bad news, anyway.

The CQC Inspection And Closure Notice

Dr Ahmed 11:46

I know, so I I flew back to Gatwick on Friday, like at midday, and uh sure enough, the CQC inspector rang me as soon as I landed and said, Um, could we meet you at your practice at 4 p.m.? Um and I was like, Yeah, yeah, no problem. She goes, I recommend you cancel any patients after 4 p.m. So I had associates working there at the time. I was like, Why cancel patients after 4 pm? She goes, We're gonna give you a notice of decision to close. And then she's she said, Um, after you've been physically handed that notice of decision, uh, it is illegal for you to see any patients. It was such a formal, formal and cold phone call that uh I was really panicking. And I don't know if it's a good whenever is a good time to have your practice closed, but I guarantee you four o'clock on a Friday is not a great time because everyone is is shut. Um the BDA um helpline is kind of shuts at five. I tried to bring the lawyer that helped me acquire the practice. Um to be fair, she answered, but she didn't know she's never come across this. Um, but basically, it was a malicious complaint. Um, someone was uh trying to commit insurance fraud. He had a lot of decay in his mouth. Um, he said he walked into a door. I don't know why I didn't even pick up the red flag and wanted to me to fill out the insurance form saying that his all his decayed teeth were broken from walking into a door. Um when I kind of refused, he he threatened to go to the GDC, which he did, saying that I hurt him and I was using dirty instruments. Now, the GDC, to be fair, threw out the claim, but because he just mentioned dirty instruments, they are legally obliged to then notify the CQC. And the CQC did an unannounced inspection whilst I was renovating the practice, and that's why I was on holiday because there was builders going to be in. And you know, the builders we still had we still had the practice running, but the builders were a bit messy, and the CQC came in and said, you know, this is not safe, and um, because I had no manager, we weren't doing the right audits, we weren't well led, which they were correct about, but I think it could have been handled a bit more kind of you know diplomatically and you know less less severe than then closing the practice, and um yeah, I it was a big den plan practice, and I I spoke to the ex-principal and he said just ring ring den plan, and literally Den Plan arrived there and then, like they rang me that evening, and they literally just took the keys of my practice off me and said, Um, we're going to run it for the next three weeks, we're gonna negotiate with the CQC, our inspectors are gonna come in and um inspect your practice, we're gonna train your staff.

Dr James 15:01

They were doing press releases for me, their PR team were just sending um what is that even a thing that this that that can they can do that?

Dr Ahmed 15:12

I didn't I didn't even know about it, but they just saw how how naive and and and clueless I was. Um, because the CQC closed my practice at four, and then at half four, we have a very small NHS uh contract. Half four, NHS England called me saying um they already knew this was happening. The CQC tipped them off. They said, We've heard your practice is being closed. Um we've written to your all your NHS patients, we've got registered with us, but just in case there's one or two people we don't have the correct address details for, we think it's best we just do a press release to the local radio station and the local newspaper. And I was like, is that is that really necessary? Do we really need to publicize this? And you know, I I I was in shock, like, and I was like, it's probably one of the few times I was kind of had tears in my eyes. Like, and then um, yeah, I called them plan. They said, listen, don't don't worry about it, you know, we we'll know what to do. Our P PR team will take care of it. And but yeah, that that was a big, big lesson learned.

Dr James 16:24

Oh my goodness, wow. Well, listen, thank you for being so candid, Sharon. That that is wow, fascinating. There we are.

Dr Ahmed 16:33

And it was a scary moment because um I was renovating the practice, so I put all my money into the renovations, and um they CQC said we'll re-inspect you in four weeks, and I said, I I don't have the cash reserves to be closed for four weeks, and so the them plan negotiated they come back after literally about 14 days, and to be fair to them plan, I mean I don't want to plug them plan here, but they did really help me. But they even lent me money just to just to keep me going until the reinspection. Um, so yeah, you you kind of know who your friends are in in these situations.

Dr James 17:14

Wow, okay. Well, I mean, that is a flipping crazy story. And listen, as I say, thank you for sharing. I didn't I didn't know Denplan have a contingency plan for these sorts of things. So obviously they do. Obviously, this sort of stuff happens, and they've got a protocol in place, which is what you benefited from on that occasion. So that was your first practice, and you bought your first practice in 2013.

Dr Ahmed 17:37

2013, yeah.

Dr James 17:39

2013, and that was the same year, that story.

Dr Ahmed 17:42

So they this inspection happened just over a year of owning it. So I bought it October 2013. The inspection happened in January 2015. So, yeah, just about 14-15 months into practice ownership. Um the the previous principal didn't have a manager. I thought I could run it without a manager, and you know, and you know, I learned a very, very tough lesson that you really need someone managing the practice for you if you're going to be full-time clinical, which I was.

Denplan Steps In And Recovery Lessons

Dr James 18:15

There we are. Okay, cool. So basically, bought the first practice, all of this kicked off. We're just at the point, this is almost like, wow, where do we go from here? The only way is up effectively. Practice reopened, and presumably things picked up and things started to tick along and run a little bit more smoothly. How did you get your hunger back for dentistry and being a principal at that stage to go on and buy it more practices?

The Preston Practice And Sudden Retirements

Dr Ahmed 18:45

I mean, again, it it's a constant theme in my life, and you know, serendipity had a lot to do with it. Um when you buy a practice, your your email address is still registered with the dental agents. And I I got a listing of a practice in Preston in 2016, um which was really, really profitable. And um it was an NHS practice, and you know, it had my eyes uh uh opened up a bit, and I was like, you know, how how can a NHS practice be this profitable? And it did have a big um plan list as well, but it it was all up and it was four hours away in Preston, and I just thought I listen, I just want to go visit it just to see really how they how they do it more than anything. Um so yeah, one Saturday morning I drove up four hours to Preston, and Preston is where I did my implant MSc, so it wasn't unknown to me. And um, I turned up and it was a very basic practice. They they they had no website, um they had um no computers, it was all pen and paper. And this is 2016, so it's not not decades ago. Um, they did no marketing, they did no um cosmetic dentistry, they did no implants, um, no orthodontics, really, you know, about 50% profit margin, uh, principal-led practice, um, doing none of the you know, sexy dentistry. And they were making more than my private practice, and we we had similar turnovers, you know, approaching a million. And it kind of annoyed me, they were making more money than me um doing NHS and and plan. And it it was almost out of anger that I I wanted to buy it because they were just they were more successful than me. I said, like, you know, I've got to have this practice, and I I wasn't even thinking about how am I gonna run it, it was the other side of the country, and yeah, I think in the back of the mind looking back, there was a bit of you know, if the CQC closed a practice again, it would be good if I had a second income because you know I I had almost zero money when they closed my first practice. I mean, I didn't I didn't, yes, I've got family to fall back on, but I I realized that you probably do need a second income in dentistry. There's so many threats out there. Um, not only the GDC, um, you've got HMRC to worry about. Um, you know, um there's a lot of blue and blue reporting, um, there's a lot of litigation. You know, your your back can go in dentistry, some some illness can happen. I realized early on you you do probably need to think about a second income in dentistry because of there are a lot of threats to to you and your career. So there was that in the back of my mind, maybe I do need a second source of income. So I I offered full asking price for this practice, was rejected because you know I was seen as an investor at that stage. Um, and then I forgot about it, and then the people that were buying and practice, their finance fell through. Um, so the owners came back to me and said, Are you still interested? And yeah, I I bought it October 2016. Again, they didn't have you know a manager, so you know, I I had to then interview a manager to run it for me. Um the associates were quite quite further on in their careers. Um, the principal's wife, she was a dentist, she retired, another uh Associate, he was probably in his late 50s. He was quite annoyed that I bought the practice, um, having a young new owner, and he said to me, Um, give me a uh I I'm I'm partly responsible for a lot of the goodwill of this practice. If you want me to stay, I want 140,000 pounds, 70,000 for the first year, 70,000 in my second year, or I'm walking. So I just told him you can walk, and so he just left. And uh a third associate, she she retired. Literally, so three dentists retired within two months of me buying a practice, so it was quite full on in that first couple of months. I suddenly had to find three associates uh and a manager. Um, but yeah, I I was quite lucky. Um, I kept the print, the one principal stayed on, the husband stayed on, and he helped me recruit. Um, I didn't know Preston, but word of mouth, he he kind of said, you know, we'll we'll find you some associates.

Dr James 23:53

Wow, what a story. So that was let me do some math in my head. Got your first practice at 32, 20, and that was in 2012, right? Is what you said.

Dr Ahmed 24:03

2013.

Dr James 24:04

2013, sorry, and then second practice 2016. So you were 30, you were 32, first practice 35-ish.

Dr Ahmed 24:11

Yeah. So and yeah, again, it it's almost like my kind of plan in life um is being purely accidental. I mean, I I wanted to be a doctor in the first place, but I then found I had a second practice, which you know I didn't really need, if I if I'm honest. I I was you know quite happy my income with one practice. Um, so in 2016, I I had income from a second practice, which was just kind of building up. I didn't really need um, you know, timing is everything. I mean, interest rates were you know 0% back then, and um I wasn't really uh looking to invest in more practices, but I was speaking to a friend in worked in banking, and he was quite amazed at the low interest rates banks were offering uh dentists and dental practice owners, even for goodwill lending. I mean, goodwill is uh is is a non-tangible asset, it's an asset you can't touch. But banks know that uh even when a dental practice changes hands, usually the clients still go to that same practice because they associate um a lot of familiarity with the building of the practice, uh the associate dentists, they know the receptionists, they know the managers, they know the nurses. So even when a practice changes hands, they calculate the patient attrition is usually less than five percent. So banks do lend quite a lot of money on goodwill, and I didn't really appreciate that in other industries um this is not always the case. And you know, when interest rates are below inflation, um you are technically borrowing free money, which I I I didn't really fully appreciate at the time.

Goodwill Lending And Separating Property Assets

Dr James 26:17

By the way, I'm still here. Yeah, I tried not to distract you. I'm back, I'm back. There we are. So yeah, uh that would that that's something unique to dentistry that maybe us dentists don't always appreciate as much as we should. UK Dennists, Dennis Who Invest now has an official platform where you can learn about finance and obtain UK compliant, verifiable TVD at the same time. The only platform that exists on which you can do both. The Smart Money Members Club has hundreds of hours of mini courses, webinar series, and live day recordings on all things finance slash tax efficiency for UK dentists. This includes complete courses on how tax works for UK dentists, finance so that you can invest and grow your own money, business so you can improve your profitability as an associate or principal, and for those out there that want it, there's also a mini course and how you can responsibly enter the crypto space using measured amounts of capital. I've gathered this content from the best of the best I could find in each respective area so that you know that this is how people at the forefront of each field advise their clients. The Smart Money Members Club also contains discounts on common things that UK dentists need to pay for on a regular basis. This includes a whopping 10% discount on dental indemnity, the offer to beat your income protection deal no matter what you're paying, and for the principals out there, 5% discount on lab bills and 10% discount on practice insurance. These are designed to offer hundreds, if not thousands, in annual savings. The purpose of this members club is to not only boost your monthly income but also manage your outgoings as much as possible and therefore create more profit. To celebrate the launch of the Smart Money Members Club, and given that the CPD deadline is coming up soon, I've decided to offer the first month of this platform entirely for free. This offer will end in the coming weeks as soon as the current CPD cycle is up. To collect your CPD for this podcast episode using the Smart Money Members Club, feel free to use the link in the description of this podcast.

Dr Ahmed 28:28

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I I'm not I mean, I'm I'm quite risk-averse, I'm quite, you know, conservative. I'm not really into borrowing lots of money, but you know, when when friends in banking were saying, you know, interest you're borrowing at two and a half percent. Um inflation at that time was two and a half, three percent. They were just saying, listen, you're borrowing free money. Um, so you you'd be stupid not to take it. But you know, my money was accruing in the second practice, and uh yeah, I I the only thing I really knew was was um dentistry and property. I did have a clean, keen interest in property. Um and when I was going on property forums, there was a lot of kind of people using risky strategies to buy buildings with zero deposit. And banks were actually offering us zero deposit on the buildings as long as the practice was profitable. So I was actually kind of realized how lucky I was. I was actually not only buying a practice, I was buying a building as an asset as well with zero deposit. So what I started doing was I started putting the buildings in a separate limited company, and the practice were going in another limited company because eventually, you know, if I sell the practice, I'd like I'd like to keep the the buildings and live off hopefully more passive income than dentistry.

Dr James 30:04

Yeah, it's a good strategy that and uh uh as well as that another common thing is where people put them in a pension, I believe, for like a SIP or something along those lines. Uh, but even a limited company, I've actually never thought about that before. Like, oh, I guess you could put them in a separate limited company as well. So there we go.

Dr Ahmed 30:20

Yeah, yeah. No, you you can put them in SIPs, but I I think with 40,000 a year, I know that's increased recently. Um, maximum you can put into a SIP. That um, yeah, if you buy a building for five or two hundred thousand, you have to use five years worth of pension allowance to put it into a SIP. So, you know, that would have slowed me down a bit. But yeah, there's there's a lot of strategies, and yeah, do speak to accountants and financial advisors. Um, I'm starting to do that now and reverse engineer my strategy. But, you know, if I was Ford thinking, uh I would have probably you know had the SIP from day one.

Smart Money Members Club And CPD Link

Dr James 30:59

Well, do you know what that actually uh brings me on to something that I'd like to ask in a little bit uh further on uh down this podcast, uh you know, uh during the proceedings of this podcast, and that is what are the biggest lessons that you learned or things that you would do differently, because that stuff is gold dust, especially for people who are going on a similar journey for uh a similar journey to yourself. But just before we do that, so you've just given us a really good understanding of the journey, so to speak, as to your first practice, second practice, and how things continued from then. And if you just bring us right up to this present day, how things look, nine praxis the way things are right now, and if you look back on what you've done and the you know everything that you've achieved, are you happy? Do you want more? Is there ever a stop button, or how does that how does it feel? How does it feel for you?

Scaling To Nine Practices With Repeat Income

Dr Ahmed 31:53

Yeah, I mean, it I mean, I I I don't know whether I was driven by ego or or you know, I or I I really had that deep ambition to to grow a micro corporate, but it it did grow organically. I was you know, money accumulated in in the practice accounts. I I didn't know much about you know stocks and shares. Um, you know, I only really joined your group after COVID. Um I knew a little bit about property, but I was acquiring property alongside my practices. So I just decided that you know, once the funds built up, I'd look to add maybe one practice a year, and that's essentially what I did and focused on marketing. I mean, I I did have a kind of very um straightforward strategy when I bought a practice. I did like practices with repeat source of incomes, whether it is NHS practices with a high UDA value or a big plan practice. Um, I like that security of the repeat income, and then you know, use my marketing team to build up on the private income. And one one practice did grow to a size is actually the Preston one where I needed to open a second location, and that was my first squat, and that happened in 20 2021, 2022. Um squats are stressful. Um, I know Bobby appears in your podcast. Yeah, and yeah, you know, if you're gonna work in the practice in and you're really motivated, it is possible to do a successful squat. Um but you know, I remember going to a talk uh actually in Australia about buying a practice or setting up a squat, and it's useful to look at the practice income in different instalments. So the first hundred thousand uh uh practice generates because of the high fixed costs, maybe only five to ten percent of that is profit, pure profit, and then the second um tranch, the hundred thousand to two hundred thousand uh tranche, maybe 20, 10 to 20 percent of that is pure profit because your fixed costs more or less stay the same. And if you build on a turnover, you're just increasing some of your variable costs, which are not usually that much. From two to three hundred thousand, maybe that tranch 20 to 30 percent of it is is profit. So when you buy an existing practice, because your fixed costs don't really change that much, whatever you add to it from marketing and private income, more a bigger portion of that is profit than when you're starting a squat. And I do admire people who do set up squats um because it does take a lot of work, and I it's my personal belief if I do half the work uh of setting up a squat, I can probably double a turnover of an existing good practice. Um but I think other lessons I've learned is just just obviously having infrastructure. Um after about four practices, you do need an operations manager. Um, luckily, one of my good managers who decided to retire early, she stayed on as my PA operations manager. Um, you you need someone just helping the managers. Um, most managers, not all of them, are nurses or receptions that have got promoted. So they they're probably not very experienced is uh uh running a big business. So it'd be good if you had a manager with not only dental experience but business experience to help them. And yeah, just just uh think about I think like any investment, if you put down a deposit, how are you gonna get that deposit back? Um how long is it gonna take you? If I if I invest in a practice, if I can get my deposit back in two, three years, then I know I can grow further. Um and the only thing stopping me growing more is I'm still the only um director of of all nine practices, and um you know, unless you know I really invest into a head office, um, it's gonna be difficult for me to grow more at this stage.

Dr James 36:49

And you know what? That's actually something I'd love to ask you about. How do you delegate things even before even even where you are right now before you get the head office? How is it possible to manage those nine dental practices with, let me see, seven times 24, 168 hours in a week? I'm curious to know about that. But just before I talk about that, I was just wondering, you mentioned fixed costs and variable costs there. And I feel a lot of dentists know fixed costs and variable costs and that uh, how can we say nomenclature that account accountants use, but maybe not as many as they should there, you know, maybe not as many as there should be, uh, understand that stuff. So I'm just curious how how how uh how um refined does one's understanding of reading a balance sheet and the numbers need to be to expand at the rate that you've expanded at? Do they just need to basically be able to understand uh you know PL to a basic level, or do they really need a refined understanding of how to read a balance sheet, in your opinion?

Delegation, Ops Support And Associate Retention

Dr Ahmed 37:51

I mean, I don't think you you need a um massive knowledge about this. You you you do need to speak to an accountant. Um and when you're buying a practice um and you've got the accounts there in black and white, it's very easy for you to know the the fixed costs, the the rent or um the electricity costs, the rates, and you know, the variable costs and and the staff costs. The variable costs are obviously just your dental materials and and your lab bills. Um but yeah, it uh it is it is really useful, and again, it's easy to do this with an existing practice to know how many days the practice is actually open, and then you divide you know the the fixed costs by the number of days of trading, so you know you're running costs per day, and then you can break it down by how many surgeries you are, so you know how much it costs to run a surgery in a per day, and if you really wanted to know how much it runs per hour, then that's quite useful to know. And it's it's very useful to know to share with the associate so they know what they need to gross just so that the principal is not losing money. And you know, when you have those conversations with your associates when they haven't made that target, and you tell them it's actually it'd be actually more profitable for me to have given you 50 pounds and told you not to turn up today than you turning up today because what you generated didn't even cover you know the overheads, it is a big wake-up call for some associates. And I don't think those discussions are had enough between principals and associates.

Dr James 39:40

I see. And listen, that's very valuable what you just said, because I feel like sometimes people, how can we say, fixate on understanding the balance sheet to a huge level before they make progress in their journey, whenever it comes to buying dental practices to hear it from yourself, where it carries some gravitas and it allows dentists to understand what truly is necessary. Let's pull it back to what I was saying just a second ago in terms of delegation. The question that we discussed before we talked about the numbers thing we mentioned just a second ago. So I was just curious, whenever it comes to delegation, I know that you told me off camera you're still in clinic three days a week.

Dr Ahmed 40:18

Yeah.

Dr James 40:19

Yeah, fair play to you. And you know your time outside of clinic. How does that look? Are you constantly firefighting, so to speak, or do you have some time to yourself? Have you managed to get somebody in who can run that for you? I know you said you had an ops manager. How does that look?

Dr Ahmed 40:37

Yeah, I mean, my my ops manager, she she looks after the other managers. Um, I don't have a clinical director, and that that's probably the next step is to have someone as a clinical director. Um, I will need two because of the geographical spread of the practices, and so yes, I am not firefighting, but uh you know, I've got many hats. I'm doing I'm doing dentistry just so my knowledge stays relevant because a lot of my new associates they need some sort of mentorship. Um so yeah, my my work life balance is is completely out of sync. Um I do take 12 weeks off a year, which sounds great, but uh you know, I'm on my laptop literally every day, even when I'm in Spain or things like that. It's it's a sacrifice I'm I'm willing to make at the moment because you know I do hope to kind of retire uh young and hopefully get that time back, but you know, you can't take things for granted. But yeah, I work three days and then I have two admin days. Really, ideally, I need to drop one more clinical day and have three admin days. Um, mixed in with those admin days, I do like to mentor dentists where I can just sit with them as their assistant and just help them with you know certain procedures. Um that really helps with retention and when you're recruiting. If you if you can help you know younger dentists, then they do appreciate that. Um, you know, there is a lot of kind of trust issues in dentistry, but you know, uh people you know trying to uh retain money off associates, um, and then if the associate uh complains, then it leads to a GDC complaint. If you if you can be there for associates and help them and let them know you know you're on their side and share your experiences not only in dentistry and business, because most of us graduating have have very little business knowledge, then they do they do tend to stick around. So I am fairly happy with my retention and you know, you know, I've got good associates working for me, which has helped me grow myself.

Dr James 43:01

Awesome, man. Thank you for that. And do you know what? In your experience and going on this journey that we talked about just a second ago, I'm just curious to know, now from the vantage point that you're presently sad at, right now, presently, looking back over this uh yeah, as I say, this voyage of going from being a 32-year-old, getting your first practice, CQC, uh doing what they did, reopening again, and then all of a sudden you're acquiring more and more and more to get to where you are today. If you could do anything differently, or if you had some advice for that 32-year-old version of yourself, what might it be?

What He’d Do Differently And Getting Help

Dr Ahmed 43:39

I you know, I think we're speaking about this off air. I kind of bit off more than I can chew. Um, and I I think just get advice of people that have walked that path before. Um I do now, you know, I'm in a WhatsApp group of other um dentists that own multiple sites, and it's good having that advice um on hand, but I probably didn't take enough advice at the beginning. Um so and yeah, I kind of bit off more than I can chew, and I'll be quite honest with myself. I think I know my dad could probably help me out financially if I if I ever got stuck, but not not everyone has that safety net. So yeah, I I was quite fortunate. But if you are gonna buy more than one practice, you know, just reach out to people like myself or I can put you in touch with other people who have done it. And you know, most of us are happy to share our experiences. You know, we you know, we're not we're not competing with everyone, we we've all kind of you know. Made our wealth and you know we're just you know happy to share and collaborate with other people.

Dr James 44:56

You know, that's the thing that is one of the biggest misconceptions I think that people have about business that they think that it's really cutthroat and everybody's out for themselves. Actually, 90% of people who have done well just want to share what they've learned on their journey because that knowledge is scarce, and the only real way you can learn how to do that stuff is to just go and experience it. There's no book, there's no textbook, there's no YouTube video, there's no course, so to speak. You just have to do it. And there's a big part, there's a there's this big sense of compassion and willingness to give back from people who have been on that voyage and people who've experienced that stuff, and they just don't want others to struggle in the same way that they did. So, yeah, very much resonate with that, and that's something that I've observed too. And I feel like a lot of people out there don't realize that. Why would you struggle on your own when you can just ask? You get the right person that can accelerate your own journey and they enjoy giving you that information too.

Dr Ahmed 45:48

Yeah, I mean, 100%. I mean, there's there's loads of us out there, you know. I I don't I'm not selling a course, I'm not, I'm not, I don't teach, but you know, if if you and I've learned this through property forums, if you just say to someone that's reached where you want to go and said, you know, do you mind if I buy you coffee or buy you dinner just so I can pick your brain and just be honest about it? Nine times out of ten, they said, Yeah, no problem.

How To Reach Ahmed And Closing

Dr James 46:13

You know, they want the dinner, man, you know, in a nice restaurant. Absolutely, it's a win-win. It's a win-win. Listen, Ahmed, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge today. And let's say somebody did want to reach out to you off the back of this podcast. Where are they best off finding you? Out of curiosity.

Dr Ahmed 46:32

Yeah, so I'm I'm in your group. Um, I'll I'll message you my direct email and contact number anyway. But you know, just look for Ahmed Jazeiri. There's only one of us, I believe.

Dr James 46:45

Uh got you, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, thank you so much, mate. Well, listen, as I say, thank you so much for generously giving up your time because I know you're flipping busy for the benefit of the audience. Thank you so much for this amazing podcast today, and I'm already looking forward to when we have you back on again at some stage to get a catch up uh with regards to the next leg of your journey, however that looks. That'll be interesting and fun whenever that occurs. Amen. Thank you so much. We'll see each other very soon. Thanks, Jen.