Dentists Who Invest Podcast

Making Tax Digital: What Happens Next? with Vanessa Pople and Anita Holmes [CPD Available]

• Dr. James Martin • Season 4 • Episode 459

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Quarterly tax reporting is coming for self-employed dentists, and the fine print matters more than most people realise. We sit down with Vanessa, a tax partner specialising in the dental sector, and Anita, an MTD Client Services Director, to make Making Tax Digital for Income Tax feel practical rather than intimidating.

We talk through what HMRC actually requires: digital records, MTD-compatible software, and quarterly updates submitted one month and seven days after each quarter end. We clarify who is in scope from April 2026, why the £50,000 threshold is gross qualifying income (and why “qualifying” means self-employment and rental income), and how the phased reductions to £30,000 and £20,000 may pull more UK dentists in over time. We also explain the final declaration that replaces the traditional Self Assessment return for the 2026 to 2027 tax year onwards, plus what still gets added at year end.

From there, we get tactical. What does a dental associate report when the bank only shows net pay? How do you handle mixed NHS and private income, side income streams, or rental property? We discuss software choices including Xero, Sage and QuickBooks, the pros and cons of bank feeds, why separating business and personal accounts saves stress, and how to avoid messy reconciliations that create problems later. If you want support, we also outline service options from light-touch review to fully managed reporting and quarterly planning.

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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.

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Dr James

What's up everybody? Welcome to this live webinar on something that confuses them to hack on it in it. And it still does, even though the deadline has, or at least the initial deadline anyway, because of course we still have time to map a lot of things we're set in this webinar, and that is making packs digital. And I'm thrilled to be joined by Letter and needed to represent a for a lot of dumb number is going to be super factual. And you know what we need to just know exactly when it's time to say everything should be made simple as possible. Smart money members club. Smart morning members club also includes small money courses and comments possible. All this content comments is verifiable C P D. And you can download your certificates then and then on completing of each lesson. In addition to this, we also include a whopping 10% discount on your Dental Indemnity and 5% discount on lab bills for Dental Principles, amongst other perks and disc comments for members. Please use the link in the description to claim your verifiable CPD for this episode. Anita and Vanessa, the floor is yours.

Vanessa

Thank you, James. Anita's just going to light load our slides for us. Welcome

Welcome And CPD Details

Vanessa

and thank you for joining us, everybody. I think Making Tax Digital did start as of last month, and we're hoping this session will be an introduction to you and give you some ideas on how to prepare and get ready.

Anita

Thanks, Vanessa. So can you all see my screen now? Can you see the slides? Yeah, we're all good. It's on the screen. Marvellous. So times have changed. Making tax digital tax is now live. Vanessa, would you like to introduce yourself?

Vanessa

Yeah, sure. I'm Vanessa. I'm a tax partner based in Oxfordshire working for ASEX. I specialise in the dental sector and across ASEX group we have over a thousand uh dental professionals, everything from the newly qualified all the way through to large privately owned groups. Uh I have qualified in uh tax. I'm a chartered tax advisor just over 32 years ago now. So I've been doing this quite a while, but specialising in dentistry for the last 13 years. Thanks, Vanessa.

Anita

I'm Anita, MTD Client Services Director at ASEX. I specialise in making tax digital for income tax and support clients as they navigate this significant transition. I've been with ASEX for over 13 years now, and just over a year ago, I joined the MTD project team and I've been working really closely with the MTD team from a very early stage, ensuring our clients are prepared and fully compliant. ASEX, we're proud to have been the first accounting firm in the UK to submit an MTD for income tax course that return, and today we're recognized as the UK's leading advisor in this space, supporting thousands of

Meet The MTD Experts

Anita

clients across the country. Over the last year, we've worked really closely with our clients on HMRC and we've contributed to the largest cohort of MTD test returns in the UK. And this hands-on involvement's given us valuable and real-world insight into how MTD operates in practice. My role focuses mainly on helping clients understand and adapt to NTD for income tax, ensuring they remain compliant and confident throughout this change. And I'm really looking forward to sharing some of that experience with you all today. Today we're going to cover making such digital for income tax and give you an introduction into that, what you need to be doing now, what the benefits are of the MTD and the new way of reporting, some common challenges and how to overcome them. We're going to do some frequently asked questions, particularly for the dental sector, and we're going to give you an overview of our services that we're offering to our clients. So, what is MTD and how can you comply? So, making tax digital is part of the government's initiative and plans to make it easier for individuals and businesses to ensure that their tax is correct and keep on top of their affairs. What it requires is for individuals and businesses to keep digital records, use a software that is MTD compliant, and to submit quarterly updates, bringing your tax system closer to real time. Who does MTD impact? So from April 2026, making tax digital for income tax is going to impact sole traders, self-employed practice owners and dental associates, and landlords with a gross income that exceeds £50,000. It's going to be introduced in three phases. So from April 2026, it's those with a gross income of over £50,000. From April 27, it'll be those with a gross income of over £30,000. And from April 28, it's those with a gross income of over £20,000. It is worth noting at this stage that the £50,000, if you are a sole trader and you have rental income, it is those two incomes combined. And it's the gross income, not the profits.

Dr James

Sometimes people use the £50k mark as shorthand for £50,270, right? But in this instance, it literally is £50K, isn't it? Absolutely. That might catch a few people's eye. Because I thought that to myself, people might do that math in their head, right?

Anita

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, it is it's based on your 2425 tax return. So whatever you reported as your turnover on that tax return 2425, if it was 50,000, if it was 50,000 and a penny, you are in scope for MTD. And

What Making Tax Digital Requires

Anita

you're in scope for three years as long as you receive qualifying income. And that qualifying income is your self-employment and your rental. Even if it drops below that 50,000 after the first year, you remain in scope for three years unless you fall below the thresholds altogether for three years in a row. So that's a really important point. Well done, James. So how do we comply? So this is a mandatory change. Um, failures to

Who Falls Into MTD Scope

Anita

comply will result in penalties from HMRC. There is a soft landing, but there is absolutely no confirmation as to when that soft landing will end. So we are advising people get compliance from the start, don't wait for the soft landing to end. To comply, you're going to need to keep digital records. And what we mean by digital records is that you must record and store key data either in an MTD compatible software or use in an application or a spreadsheet that has got digital links. And the minimum amount of data that you need to report is the date, the amount, and the cascade or the type of income or expense. It needs to be submitted using compliance software. It must be submitted every quarter. And at the end of the year, after you've submitted your four quarters, you'll be expected to submit a final declaration that is going to replace your self-assessment from tax year 26-27. And that incorporates the information you provided through your MTD quarterly return and also any other sources of income. So, for example, bank interest or employment income, uh, dividend income, anything else that's reported on your normal self-assessment return. But you must remember that even though you started from the 6th of April 26th with your MTD submissions, you still have your 20 or 25, 26 self-assessments return to submit in the traditional way. So the key deadlines that you need to remember and you need to be very wary of, the quarterly returns are due to be submitted to HMRC one month and seven days following the quarter end. So the first return that is due in this first mandate is due on the 7th on or before the 7th of August. So that's one month,

Digital Records And Key Deadlines

Anita

seven days after the quarter end. The next one will be the 7th of November, the following one, 7th of February, and the final one, 7th of May. Once you've submitted your final quarter on the 7th of May, you will then be expected to submit your final declaration, which is due by the 31st of January. That will be 2028. So what do dentists need to report quarterly, Vanessa?

Vanessa

So it's it's everything really, and it's gross income. So for in particular for associate dentists, that would be quite tricky because they're used to seeing in their bank account uh the net pay from their pay statement, but they will need to gross that up. So backtrack through the pay statement and make sure that's recorded in their digital records. For everyone else, it's it's all the all the income from the practice combined. So NHS, private fees, including the planner fees, and any side-along associate income that you you might be receiving and incorporated within your practice as well. I know people have different structures when they're when they're operating a business themselves. On the expenses side, it's everything you would normally sort of prepare as part of your year-end process. So your indemnity insurance, your lab bills, materials, travels, CPD, anything like that you would need to include. Um many dentists have multiple streams, so it's important to remember that if it's one business, it's all those streams going into one thing. If you have separate defined businesses for whatever reason, multiple sole trades, for example, then you will need to uh report those individually on a quarterly basis.

Anita

So what do we need to do now?

Vanessa

Okay, so um you need to work out when you're um caught by MTD. So Anita explained earlier that uh the 24-25 tax return reported figures are important. If if you fell under the threshold in that year, then you know, are you going to fall in in the following year? And what will

What Dentists Report Quarterly

Vanessa

the threshold requirement be? Are you going to be caught by the 30,000 or the 20,000? Um, and plan accordingly. Make sure you're geared up and ready for it. Um, choose your compatible software. Um, it doesn't have to be um you know a paid-for product necessarily, but that might be something that you choose to go down the route of and you need to research those, but it can be quite overwhelming. If it becomes overwhelming, seek professional advice, talk to an accountant about the options that are around and how you might be supported. Um, some of our clients are opting to deal with their MTD reporting themselves, and that's fine, and we will support them and give them training on software and so on. But others are saying, no, I'm going to stick to my lane and I want you to deal with this for me, which is you know, it's perfectly acceptable sort of stance to take. Um if you're working in a practice environment and you've got in-house finance function, um, train yourself on your team. Teach your team what to expect, how to make sure that the digital records are maintained adequately and that the reporting can be made on time. If you are um, in particular, this this next point is about sending digital records direct. We have spoken to some of our associate dentists, for example, who get electronic pay statements

How To Prepare Starting Now

Vanessa

from the practices that they work at to maybe give instructions to send those directly onto their accountant that might be dealing with MTD for them. Um one of the biggest hurdles for us as advisors is going to be collecting and collating that information where people aren't managing.

Dr James

We'll ask Vanessa it sounds like Vanessa's connection has just dropped out there for a second. Not a problem at all.

Anita

What are we up to? So, yeah, maintaining your digital digital records and sending them direct to your advisors, that's really important. Send them live, send them as you get them. Don't wait till the quarter end up. Oh, I would like Vanessa. Sorry, sorry, we lost you for a minute there, Vanessa. Sorry about that. Sorry. We carried on with the digital records direct.

Vanessa

So you can see. I didn't didn't realise you'd lost me. Sorry, everybody. Um, and uh the last point, uh, did you cover maintain regularly, Anita? Did you not get to no?

Anita

We got to um send them direct to your accountants. So doing it on a regular basis, don't wait till the quarter end or the month end. Get them there as soon as you receive them, get them forwarded, and then we're going on to the digitalizing, the record keeping.

Vanessa

Absolutely. And and you know, a lot of people uh think that that you know this is something they can handle, and maybe in in the preparation for it, they think they're going to be able to do it. And then when it comes to the time and it comes to uh you know having that that commitment every quarter to make sure everything's up to date and running, uh they do come into problems and uh and they're already starting to talk again about changing the way they approach this.

Anita

So, what are the benefits of making TATS digital? So I would I talk more a lot of people looking at this really negatively, and it's just more work for them to do, and it's all doom and gloom. But actually, there's a lot of benefits from using um cloud software in particular. You're getting a lot of time back through automated tasks. So where you may have a real manual process, or you're inputting everything into a spreadsheet. Lots of software is out there now. I've got lots of facilities where you can record as you go, you can take pictures, it uploads it into the software, you know, and it it reads that information direct from receipts. You can have direct bank feeds from your account, so you don't have to type in your bank statements. That's a direct, it comes up on the software on a daily basis. There's so much you can automate to make life a lot easier for you. A lot of our clients on the beta, um, on the beta uh run, the project that we did, the test clients, were actually amazed at how easy it was and actually said to us, Why did you not tell me to do this years ago? So don't be scared of it. Um, there's a lot of benefits to come from it. You've got real-time financial data, which means you can collaborate with your accountant, you can do a lot of forward tax planning, you can see your tax liabilities or an estimate of your tax liabilities in in advance, and you can put money aside for that. So it helps with cash flows. You've got really good dashboards on there. A lot of these software's now have got dashboards on there. You can get, you can see a PL, you can see if you've got spare cash to buy new equipment. Um, it gives you you know advanced notification if you've got money to save taxes. So, you know, do you need to buy more equipment? Will you get more capital allowances? There's lots of tax planning because you've got the live information. Some of the software options allow um simplified invoice processing where you can send an invoice direct to a client and it's got a pay now button on it. So

Benefits Of Cloud Accounting

Anita

it's helping people with debt management as well. Um, and it's a really easy way to capture your documents and not have to keep paper records because it's a cloud software, it's there all the time, it's accessible all the time. You don't need to be keeping boxes of um reads and reads of paper records. So it is really important that you look on the benefits of it as well. So on this slide, I'd like to talk you through why we've chosen Xero as our preferred platform for making tax digital. We're strategic partners with Xero, and we've worked with them for a very long time, and it's proven to be one of the most reliable and user-friendly systems available. Importantly, it is fully recognised by HMRC for MTD, so it ticks all the compliance boxes. What we've seen throughout the pilot scheme is that Xero is consistently, it comes out the recommended option by our clients, largely because it's straightforward to use and it doesn't require a steep learning curve. From a practical perspective, the big advantage is visibility. You get real-time financial data and simple dashboards, which means you're not just staying compliant, you're actually understanding how your business is performing as you go. It also significantly reduces your manual work. Compared to spreadsheets, you've got automation, which means fewer errors and faster processing, which is particularly important when you move into coarserly reporting. There's also lots of additional applications available with Zero, which means you can make the software bespoke for your particular requirements. And because it's cloud-based, you can access it anywhere. It allows both you and your advisors to work on the same data at the same time, which makes collaboration much easier. Throughout our strategic partnership with Zero, we've got a large number of trained colleagues, plus dedicated support and training resources. We can also pass on subscription savings to our clients, which helps make the transition a lot more cost-effective for them. So overall, Xero is not just about compliance, it's about giving you a system that makes managing your finances simpler, quicker, and much more insightful. So, what are the key challenges and how do we overcome them? Vanessa,

Choosing Software And Why Xero

Anita

would you like to start?

Vanessa

Yeah, sure. So one of the things that clients have discussed with us often is how do they approach this, how do they, how do they comply? And a big part of that is choosing the software. Um there are lots out there. There are a lot of um, you know, banks are offering apps with their their business accounts and so on. Um, and it is about really researching that and finding the one that works for you. Um, the you know, the the the ones with the banks might be okay for straightforward simp situations, but they might not deliver the advanced reporting and information that you you're actually looking for for your business. So, in those situations, we would say, you know, discuss it with an expert, talk to your accountant, and and be guided by them.

Anita

Yeah, because I think it's really important as well with the software, is it's the support you get with that software. Um, it might be simple to use, but if you have that tiny little quirk that you're not quite sure of, who's there at hand to help you? So I think sometimes it is better speaking to your advisors who can give you discounted software and try and work with them because you'll always have that backup. Um, so I think that's really important, isn't it? Totally. Yeah, I think a really important one is this managing your quarterly deadlines. If you're used to just speaking to your advisor once a year, um turning it up with your spreadsheets or your bag of records or what you know, whatever you provide your advisor. I think it's really important to get used to these managing these deadlines. Um, and again, use reminders, maintain your regular records and really keep on top of it. Don't bury your head, don't let it build up, and don't let it become a really overwhelming task. I think that's really important.

Challenges And Best Practice Habits

Vanessa

Totally. Um, so you know, going back to understanding the scope of what you've got to report, I mean, it really does feed into again, you know, all those software interactions between the MTD platform that you're gonna use, your bank account, whether you're using Dex and all that sort of stuff. Um, if if you're not using something that talks to each other and fits all in, how how are you going to manage that? How are you going to pull all that information together and understand that you are gathering everything that you need to do? Um, if you're unclear on anything, then you need to, you know, keep keep a list, keep a keep a manual record, you know, at somewhere to make sure you're pulling all those separate bits in. But if you could automate as much as possible, that's going to speed everything up for you and free some time.

Anita

Yeah, and I think that's why adapting to new technology is really important, is it, isn't it? Um moving from manual to digital, it can be overwhelming, it can be really daunting. But I would all I can say is reach out, reach out to your accountants. They're there to help you, they're there to guide you, they know your business, they know the type of record keeping that you use now, then they know how to adapt you into new record keeping, and they're there to help you and get you through that journey. And I would say start very early, do your research with the software. Um, we do Champion Zero, but we also support all of the other softwares, and you know, we've been working with them for years. So we can guide you and sort of which is the which is the best model for you and build almost a bespoke package for you. So start early and get some advice.

Vanessa

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, keeping that consistency going, so record keeping consistency. Um, you know, keep on top of it, don't wait until the quarter end to try and pull everything together. Um, it's gonna take you possibly longer than you think, but if you can keep on top of it on a on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, that's gonna help. Um the more inconsistently you approach your record keeping, the more errors you're likely to make. And you know, making tax digital is all about trying to iron out those errors. So um you'd want less work to be needed to be done at the end of the year, essentially.

Anita

I mean, there's bridging the gap as well between your old and your new processes. If it if you're used to using a spreadsheet, the spreadsheet works for you. You're not you're finding it's not taking a load of time to do that. There are some softwares out there that will allow you to bridge your spreadsheet, but the spreadsheet will need to be in a certain format. Um, I mean, I'm a big believer in this cloud software. You can take it with you where you go. You can't take a spreadsheet with you, but you can take your cloud software with you on a mobile device, on a bit of tablet, a mobile phone. You can take pictures of your receipts as you go. Um, but if you don't want to use a spread, if you don't want to use cloud software, a spreadsheet can be used in the right format and it can be bridged through a compliant software.

Vanessa

Absolutely. And one of the other important aspects is keeping your personal and business financial affairs separate. Um, for some people, they won't have even set up a separate account yet or even thought about doing that, and that's particularly relevant, I guess, in my associate uh dental world or you know, therapists of my genus. Um, but we are recommending everyone does now try and set up a separate account and have everything to do with their business fed through that and keep all their private and personal finances outside of it. And I know when we're running our own business, it's our own bank account, and we you know we interchange between. Business credit cards and the business account paying for personal bills, but that is going to muddy the waters with your MTD, and it's it's not best practice. So try and get a bit more disciplined with that.

Anita

And then the last one I think is delays or uncertainty about the rollouts, um, being unclear on your timelines, making it difficult to plan. We know what the thresholds are now, we know when they're coming into place. So, what I would say, my big suggestion now with clients is get your 25-26 return submitted as soon as possible. You know exactly where you stand, and you'll know if you're gonna be in scope for the next phase if you're not already in scope from your 24-25 return. Um if you don't think you're gonna be in scope till 27, 28, there's nothing to start your planning now, there's nothing to start your setting up now. As Vanessa said, start looking at separate opening a separate bank account, start looking at software, start looking at automating now. Why delay it? It will make life a lot easier for you anyway. So I'm a big believer.

Dr James

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Members Club CPD And Discounts

Dr James

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Anita

So we're going to cover some frequently asked questions now, Vanessa.

Vanessa

Yeah, I I've sort of pulled these together from conversations that we've been having with our clients over the last sort of six months or so, whilst we've been really heavily gearing up for the start of um making tax digital going live last month. Um so um please do chip in, Anita, if you've got anything to add from your perspective. But one of the one of the main questions is um around, you know, I have both NHS and private income. How is this treated for NTD? Well, if you're a sole trader, all of your dental income, regardless of where it derives from, is usually within one business. Um that very rarely would it be with separate in that way. So both of those income streams are pulled together and reported um quarterly, you know, as a joint figure. Um if you do have a separate business for any reason, so perhaps, for example, you've got a um, you know, uh you've kept it separate because you're working at two different sites and it's reported as two different sole trades, then yes, you would need to report, you know, uh two return, two quarterly returns um each time, but uh I feel that that would be very unlikely. So you would normally pull them together. Um we've had a client uh you know cease self-employment in 24-25, um, and wanting to know if they still need to um comply with making tax digital. Uh ordinarily, if they ceased and that was it, they retired, you would say, no, that's fine, you're out of MTD. But unfortunately for this individual, they did have continuing rental income, which although it was below 50,000 in gross income, um,

FAQs On Mixed Income Streams

Vanessa

it does mean they still caught for MTD for that rental income. Um if you've got rental income alongside a continuing dental income stream, then yes, I think Anita explained earlier you would do quarterly returns for each source. So that's you know, eight over the course of the year, quarterly returns and final declaration. Um if you move into a partnership or incorporate uh with a view particularly, I mean, we're having discussions around this to take you out of MTD, um that could work, uh, but only if you don't have any other sole trade or uh rental income alongside that. So you could do that for now. I mean, you know, there are no dates at the moment uh for when MTD might apply to partnerships or indeed companies, but I seem to recall back in the day because I've been around for a long time, um, there was talk of that happening. At one stage, you were supposed to have MTD for sublect trades, followed a year later by partnerships, and a year after that by companies. So uh watch this space is what I say. But I think that could still come in. Um so uh yeah, um making those moves just to avoid MTD might not be the solution. Um we had another client recently, um, very fortunate, managed to get the lawyers on board and sold his practice right on the 31st of March 2026. Also thought he would then be outside of scope uh for MTD, having ceased, but as most people do when they sell their practice, he was staying on as an associate on a self-employed basis, his choice. Uh, and so therefore he is still caught. But even though it's a a new business, he uh he will continue um being caught for MTD. Um so uh touched on it, alluded on it in through through the course of this. A partnership is is excluded for MTD at the moment, and some people do often get confused with um a partnership and jointly owned property. If you have property that you just own in joint names and you and your spouse declare your appropriate percentage on your tax returns, individual tax returns of that rental income, without there being a need for a partnership tax return to be prepared, you are not in a partnership. So you are not outside scope, you will be inside scope for MTD for that rental income. Um then the final point here is how how do I stay compliant without it taking over my clinical time and running and growing my practice? Well, it's about getting prepared. If you're if you're running on spreadsheets and you haven't embraced um, you know, cloud software and everything like that, yes, there's going to be a short-term transition, a little bit of time pain and input required from you. But I do strongly believe that once you get those automated processes in place, uh your business will actually flourish and you will have more time. Um, it's got to be more time consuming manually entering information for you know a two, three surgery practice onto a spreadsheet when all that stuff could be you know automated through through Xero or QuickBooks or something similar.

Anita

It's worth noting on that one as well, Vanessa, that a lot of um softwares and till systems are actually come um they'll they can feed direct into a lot of these. So you might have one system in your practice, but you never know that might actually feed straight into Xero into the accounting software and they can work alongside each other. So it is worth definitely doing the research with your software.

Vanessa

Absolutely, and you know, and it might actually guide you as well if you if you particularly like one piece of software that you're using day to day within the practice and it it's known and reported to work particularly well with uh uh a particular finance software, then you that could steer your decision-making process. Absolutely, absolutely, definitely research is needed, isn't it?

Anita

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Okay, so we're just gonna give you a quick overview of the services that ASEX offer. Um, so like I say, I've been working with a project team for over 12 months now. Prior to that, I was with the Abbas um accounts and business advisory services team. So I'm quite used to working with clients and helping them maintain the records, helping them introduce efficiencies. So we developed three different types of packages for our clients because we have got lots and lots of different types of clients. And within these three different packages, each one is built bespoke around the clients. So we've got the MTD Comply package, which we think is best suited for those that want to do everything themselves. They're really tech-savvy, they've got a bit more time on their hands. Um, and what we tend to do with that is we'll help them register with MTD, we'll set them up on the software of their choice, get them ready to go, they'll get some training from us, and then off they go. They're doing their quarterly processing. And what we do is we come in at the end of the quarter and we'll review the transactions just to make sure they are putting the correct information in the right place and we'll submit that return for them, and then we'll do the final declaration at the year end for them. So that's the comply package. We have a complete package which is aimed at the people that are too busy, they want to concentrate on what they're good at and what they're good at, and let us do what we're good at, and we'll do all of the processing for them, almost their bookkeeper. We'll do all the record keeping, set up the systems, make sure they're compliant, keep on top of them, keep nagging them for the records, uh, and maintain all of that for them, submit the course of the returns, and then the final declaration. And then we've got the confidence package, which is our all singing, all dancing package. Um, it doesn't suit everybody, but it's a great package. So it's the complete package where we do absolutely everything for the client, and including that, we'll provide coursely reporting packs, which will give you a full profit and loss balance sheet if you require it,

Support Packages From ASEX

Anita

maybe cash flows if you want them, but it's a full report package each quarter, which we'll send out to you, and then we'll book in a meeting with the tax advisor, and you can have a quarterly meeting with your tax advisor to do some tax planning. Uh, and then at the year end, again, we'll do your final declaration, prepare you an annual report pack, and we'll also book you in with our wealth management team to do some planning ahead as well, about um investment planning, whatever you want to talk to them about. So we've got those three packages, and like I say, within each of those packages, we will be we will build them to meet your requirements uh and move them around. So that's the packages that were sorry, Vanessa.

Vanessa

Sorry, sorry, Anita. It's worth saying um at this point that our our clients that we've spoken to, in the dental clients, that is, um, it's about a 50-50 split at the moment. Those those that are engaging with us, um, I mean, there are some clients and and uh who haven't responded to any sort of request to have a discussion about what they're gonna do, but um, you know, they are being chased. But it's about 50-50 between MTD comply and complete. And and already we're we're writing out to those clients that said they wanted to do it, have a go at doing it themselves, saying, How are you getting on? First months up. You know, we've already had a handful come back to us and say, actually, do you know what? I haven't got time, can you upgrade me? So um, you know, it it's bear that in mind and don't be afraid to speak to your your accountant and say, look, this isn't for me. Maybe maybe for this year I'll I'll get you to do it and maybe I'll step into it another time. Um, so that that's how we're working with our clients. It's very, it's very individual. Um, everyone's had a you know a phone call and opportunity to discuss their their business requirements and their appetite for doing this uh themselves uh on a one-to-one basis.

Anita

Yeah, it is about being realistic, isn't it? Realistic with your time. If you're in surgery all day, are you are you really going to have the time? Or have you got somebody who can do it for you? You know, I know some of my clients have got the daughters, they've pulled the daughters in and they're doing the processing and we're just reviewing what they've done. So being realistic, and and like you say, absolutely reach out to your advisor. And if if halfway through, like you say, you're finding that you're not the manager, you're not managing to keep on top of it, then reach out. Um, and that's where you're at.

Vanessa

Yeah, we all have good intentions, don't we, that we're gonna be organized and do things, but um uh it doesn't always come to fruition. Absolutely.

Anita

So I think we're gonna move on to the QA session now, guys.

Dr James

Yeah, that sounds good. Thanks so much, uh, Anita and Vanessa. I think uh everybody owes you a clap up uh for sharing everything that you know in this webinar this evening and uh what a turnout we've had as well, close to 100 people on this webinar tonight, which is flipping unbelievable. So, yes, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for making it really concise and just breaking it down as well. And I know that we're gonna move on to the community session very shortly. So, guys, if you do want to get a question in, although to be fair, I'm gonna say that uh you guys actually did such good job there with the facts section and what have you, that you might have, how can I say this, anticipated a lot of things around people's minds this evening. But nevertheless, there'll be things that are very specific to each and everybody's circumstances. And just on that, that's actually what this QR code is about on the screen right now. If anybody has any questions or anything more specific, or they just want Anita or Vanessa to give uh their circumstances a look over to make sure that everything's taking along as it should be, or they don't have time, as you were saying a second ago. Uh, Anita and Vanessa are quite happy to share this in the air. And you can register uh uh for for a reach out from either of them uh on that very note, even if it is just for a little bit of an audit to make sure that you're compliant and everything is going uh the way it should do, you can register for that by scanning this QR code on the screen just here, or we're gonna share a link for that in the chat very shortly. So it's entirely up to you, whichever route that you want to go down. And that will be just to simply put your hand up and say, actually, I could do with a second pair of eyes on this, what I've done or what my accountant's done, or anything along those lines. But yes, anyway, that's enough for me. Let's move on to the QA section of this webinar.

Live Q&A On Real Scenarios

Dr James

Let's scroll right up. So, first question that has come in is from Ramin. Uh, shout out to Ramin. And Ramin asks, can you name a few software names that we can look into? I think you guys kind of covered this, did you? With Zero.

Vanessa

Yeah. Sorry, Vanessa, go on. You go ahead, Anita. You know more about the softwares than I do.

Anita

Yeah, there is so many out there. Um, I know the the the the the front runners are your Xero, your Sage, and your QuickBooks. Um, we haven't worked alongside so we do use Sage and we do use QuickBooks, but we haven't tested those. We don't know how closely they've been working with HMRC. Um, we like I say we partner with Zero and we've been working with Xero and HMRC together, but they will have to be compliant um if they're listed on uh HMRC's website. HMRC has got a list of compliant softwares on their website as well. Um, I know there's quite a few um free softwares out there that have been offered by banks. Um I would just say be very wary of your free software, make sure it meets your needs. They are they tend to be very, very basic, and a lot of them are only free for a very short period of time. You suddenly get um introduced to fees six months down the line. So just be really sure that if you are getting the free software, one, that it's free and it stays free, and two, that it's actually going to suit your needs.

Vanessa

Yeah, and try try all the softwares as well. But you know, one of my colleagues has been a real big supporter for uh as long as I've known him on QuickBooks uh in the uh in the last 12 months or so, he's complete turned, completely turned around and is a real pro sort of zero fan now, saying that the the way they've progressed and how easy it is to use and explain and train clients on is so much superior now. So um, yeah, do have a look at it. If if there's a software that you're you're used to using, for example, they will probably have an MTD compliant version. So have a look at it, but don't let that stop you exploring other options as well.

Dr James

Nice one, thank you, uh Anita and Vanessa. By the way, guys, I can see the questions are coming in thick and fast now, which is wonderful. We do have uh 25 minutes remaining on this webinar, so we're gonna get through as many as we can. It will be a hard stop around the half eight mark. So, again, if we don't get to any of the questions, it might be another reason why it's worthwhile just dropping uh signaling your interest through that QR code that we talked about just a second ago. Because of course, you can go to a certain level of detail on a webinar like this this evening, but in order to say fully what's going on, you need to know a little bit about someone's circumstances. So perhaps that's something that might be better on a one-to-one basis versus a one-to-many, which is what this webinar is. But like I say, we're gonna do everything that we can to get some full-bodied answers in these questions that are coming in this evening. Okay, next one is from Mohammed. And this is, I guess, a broader question uh about accountancy, I suppose relevant to MTD as well. So Mohammed asks, how do you move money between personal and business account? Like money transferred to personal account gets reported, how on the balance sheet.

Vanessa

You're right to pick that up, Anita?

Anita

Yeah, if I heard rightly, it's it's how do we record transfers between personal and business? Was that right, James? I'm sorry.

Dr James

That's how I've understood that, yes, or how you record it. Yeah, you you know, even on the banking app or if someone does a balance sheet, something along those lines. Yeah.

Anita

Okay, so if if you're using um a software and you're using a banking app or whatever, and you you you transfer money out of the business account into a personal account, we've set up what we call a current account, and that requires any personal income and expend any personal drawings and any personal if you're putting money into the business, and it goes through what we call a current account, and that sits on the balance sheet.

Dr James

Nice, Shorten. So is that uh happy with that answer to Mohammed? Let us do let us know if that's uh hit the nail on the head for you. That's what you were after. Uh, do let us know with a response in the chat there. But I believe that's what you were getting at with that question. Anyway, moving on. Next question, we've got Mandeep. Mandeep says, Thank you for this evening. Have you heard of Sage software? My accountant has recommended them. Just wanted to know your thoughts. Thank you.

Anita

Yeah, again, um, we mentioned that in the first in the earlier, didn't we? Sage has has been out for years, many, many years. Um we we use it, a lot of our clients use it. Um, as Vanessa mentioned, some of them have gone a little bit behind and they're not as progressive as as others. Um, but yeah, it's a very reliable software and it's been out for years.

Dr James

Great stuff. Anything to add, Vanessa? Are you happy with that?

Vanessa

I just I guess Sage, it from my experience, Sage is quite an unusual software to use in in dentistry. Most clients um historically have used uh QuickBooks and more recently, Xero. So those are the two softwares I see mostly. Um it's very unusual that I come across a client that um is working with Sage. So can't really comment on on how well that works myself. Um, but what I would do uh Mandeep is investigate whether that software will actually talk to your bank and talk to all the other um uh softwares that you're using in the business.

Dr James

Nice, brilliant. Okay, cool. So next question. I'm just scrolling on my phone here as well to get them up here as well, so I can do two screens at once. Let me see here. So uh thank you for that, Mandy. And the next question is from Amy Sinclair. Can I send my pay slip with the lab bills information on etc to my accountant? Or am I meant to upload them somewhere on my software? I use Sage in brackets, thank you.

Vanessa

Having just said uh we don't come across Sage very often, there's a second one. Um uh it very much depends on who's doing your bookkeeping for you. So if if you're doing your own bookkeeping, then you would you would uh you know annotate out the the um payslip yourself. Um depends.

Dr James

Sure. Happy with that? I need anything, Dad?

Anita

Well, again, it depends on uh what your accountant's doing for you and what you're doing for yourself. Um I can only refer to our packages. If we were doing complete, I'd say send it to us, we'll deal with it. If you're doing comply, I'd want you to upload it to the software yourself and annotate it yourself. So it does depend on what you want to do for yourself and what your accountant's gonna um support you with.

Vanessa

Yeah, essentially I understand the way to deal with that is you have to almost create a reverse invoice for yourself within the system so that you're you're reflecting the gross income and then the expenses flowing through. Um, so that will be possible within that software. But who's doing that, whether it's you, Amy, or whether it's your accountant, I I can't say. Sorry.

Anita

Yeah, it's really important because it's not the net that you're you're you're recording. You you've got to gross that up, your full income, and then you split your expenses out. So it's not a simple, straightforward, but it it's doable.

Dr James

Well, it you know what, it kind of comes back to what I was saying just a second ago. You know, obviously we can be we can give general answers on a webinar like this, of course, but to get into the nitty gritty again might be worth just reaching out, I suppose, or letting uh Vanessa um and Anina know that. How can I say this? You want a second pair of eyes on that basically? But yes, anyway, uh moving on to the next question. Next question is from James H. And James says, For my separate bank account, does it have to be a business bank account, or can it be a random account used solely for my business? Yes.

Anita

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you don't need to be paying for a business account as a sole trader. You can just use a second account, um, but just have it as a sole solely for your business.

Vanessa

Yeah, a lot of clients will sign up to one of the online banks, online only banks, because they tend to be, you know, unless you've got a really good relationship with your bank to set up a your existing bank to set up a second account. Uh, a lot of people will go on and and do one of the online banks.

Dr James

Excellent. And guys, thank you so much for the questions as well, because these are the little nitty-gritty things that come up inevitably through such a shakeup as making tax digital Cesar hyper-valuable, hyper valuable for the person who asks, but also for the listeners too. Next question is from Megan: if you're employed and also a landlord, gross income over 40k, but landlord income small, um, does making tax digital still apply?

Anita

So, no, it's basically based on qualifying income, and the qualifying income for MTD is sole trade income and rental income. So, if you've got employment income, for example, of 40,000, like you just mentioned, and you've got rental income of 20,000, you are not in scope because it is not taking into account your employee income. It's purely sole trade and rental income.

Vanessa

Yeah, you just need to watch the thresholds as they come down. Um, so you you know you might not be caught now or next year, but you might be caught when the threshold comes down to 20,000 growth.

Dr James

Great stuff. Great question, Megan. Because that might catch a few people out or have a few people wondering, that's for sure. Uh, next question is from Annam. My gross income falls, sorry, my gross income um from the 24 to 25 uh tax year falls below the threshold as I was doing foundation training, but thankfully gross income has now gone up as an associate. But does that mean I'm caught by MTD for 26-27? Good question.

Vanessa

Yeah, I mean HMRC will pick up, won't they, Anita, if the if the first period of sole trade is less than 12 months, um, they will then gross that up. So if you uh started working um as a self-employed dental associate, say in September 2024, so you're only recording six months' worth, but that six months' worth was 30,000, HMRC will gross that up to 60,000, then you would be caught for 26, 27.

Dr James

Cool. Okay, yep, fair enough. Thanks for clearing that one up. And another question from Megan here in the chat. Uh, regarding different making tax digital uploads uh and different MTD uploads for landlord income and associate income. Uh, I think Megan is referring to her previous question. So she's asking, it do we have to do, do we have is it two separate? I think you were saying something earlier about you have to register as two, you can there's potentially register for two separate businesses.

Vanessa

Well, you you have to you you have to report separately for the associate income and the rental income. So they are not combined. Um, so it would be two quarterly returns every quarter.

Dr James

I see. And would that then apply, let's say somebody has let's say somebody has um you know, maybe like a small business on the side, something along those uh along those lines outside of dentistry. Uh let's say they had associated income, um rental income, and also a small business as well. Is there potential that could be even more? Yeah, that's so it depends on sources of income.

Vanessa

Yeah.

Dr James

But then my understanding, if my understanding is correct, it's when those all the sources of income could accumulate accumulatively exceed 50,000, not individually. Have I got that right?

Vanessa

Yeah.

Dr James

Okay, boom. Good. Really good to highlight that one. Amazing. Thank you, Megan. Next question is from Stephanie. Hi there. If we haven't associated a bank account until now, how do we manually input into zero? Or is that possible? You know, this is a great question, actually, but I won't interrupt because I think I've got a follow-up thing to ask this. Uh so yeah, if we haven't got if we haven't associated a bank account um until now, how do we manually input information into Xero? Or is that possible? Or does that mean I'm not compliant? Do we have to associate a personal account to reconcile, which feels a little invasive? Hmm.

Anita

Yeah, okay. So what you can do with Xero is you can upload your information into a spreadsheet and import that into Xero up to the point when you opened your bank account and then set your bank feed up and move from there.

Dr James

Right. I guess the other part of that question, um, which uh Stephanie's asking is could you you could obviously just set up a separate business account for all your uh your income, right? Because then that would mean you could take some of your income across to another account and zero doesn't have a record of all your transactions when you went to Tesco's or you went to the cinema.

Vanessa

Yeah, and and that's one of the things that's one of the important things to have a separate bank account for is that you know if you've got a separate business account that links to your zero, that becomes part of your digital footprint there. If you did have a revenue inquiry for any reason, then they haven't got immediate call on your personal bank account because it's not linked to the business.

Dr James

Nice. Okay, I'm really glad you asked that question, actually.

Vanessa

Yeah, it's a very good question.

Dr James

Anita, anything to add?

Anita

No, no, less covered it.

Dr James

Very good. And you know what? I had a little bit of a follow-up to that one because um I was talking to some friends who were accountants the other day, and they were saying the number of times they go into uh someone's how can I say this, bookkeeping software, and then it's not set up correctly, or the balance is completely different on the bookkeeping software to what it is in your bank account. Can I ask why that happens? Or first of all, you can I'm assuming you guys have seen that because I think it's a common gripe of accountants. Why is it it would that be a yes, Anita and Vanessa?

Anita

Yeah, it is okay.

Dr James

Because he seemed a little, he was like a bit like how the you know, I could see he was completely puzzled, but so it sounds like it's not just him, it's other accountants as well. Why does that happen?

Anita

There's lots of different reasons as as to why and how it can happen. Um, um, the main one being not understanding the software properly, um, going gung code, not taking the proper training, not you know, not researching it and not taking the advice. Um, you can, you know, accounting software, it's not a magic tool. It doesn't do everything for you. You do have to give it instructions. Um, and if you instruct it to delete something, you think you've done something wrong, you can very easily delete a bank line. Um, so you do need to have an idea of what you're doing. But what I would advise people to do, if they are using accounting software with bank feeds to do regular bank statement checks and to do that reconciliation. Uh, not just don't assume it's doing it right, don't assume you're doing it right. Regularly check. We do it once a month or once a quarter. We'll ask our clients to give us a physical copy of their bank statement from the bank, not from because there are glitches sometimes. We do leave, you know, it's not a perfect ideal world. Sometimes there will be a glitch in the imports, it might miss a line, it might miss a date. So regular checks to make sure that your bank on your software matches your actual bank physical bank notes.

Dr James

Nice, and yeah, apparently that is a very common thing. Again, Vanessa, anything you want to add on that?

Vanessa

No, no, that sounds that's all good. Yeah.

Dr James

Lovely stuff. Great questions and inspiring some great conversation as well and follow-on questions. Next next query is from ASIA. Uh ASIA asks, are charitable donations included in making tax digital or are these added on the final tax return?

Anita

Final declaration. So your quarterly return is purely, it's almost like a trading statement. It's purely your trade income and expenditure, and it is your rental income and expenditure. Everything else that normally goes on to your self-assessment return will be added onto the final declaration at the year end.

Dr James

Nice, great, short and sweet. Guys, questions are coming thick and fast in here. I'm not entirely sure we're going to get through all of these because we only have nine minutes remaining, at least on this clock. Uh, so anybody who has getting getting the quote, if anybody's got any questions and you want the very best chance that we can get to them, uh, as I say, feel free to pop us in the chat now. Patricia asks, who does the reporting? Your accountants um from the details you put into zero.

Anita

Again, that that depends on what agreement and what package and what plan you you you make with your accountant. Um we're we're recommending our clients a lot, you know, let us review what if they want to process, let us review it for them, just to give them reassurance that they're compliant and they're not put making any errors. But it it absolutely depends on what your what your accountant or your advisor is is working with you and how you're doing it together.

Dr James

Sure. Seems reasonable. Thank you for that. So, like I said, guys, we're going to try to get through all these questions as best we can. Uh, we will have to call time on these very soon. So, like I say, if you do find yourself in a place where you do have a question, something along those lines, perhaps that might be an instance to use that QR code that we were mentioning on the screen just a second ago. Next question is from Amy. I get paid into my business account and then move money out into my personal account. If I need more of my business accounts, I move some back. Is this okay?

Vanessa

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that that that's a very that's a very ideal way of dealing with it, yeah. And and and as Anita said, it would be form part of that current account of the money moving between uh on the balance sheet of the money me moving between one business account to the to the personal account.

Dr James

You know, this happened to me once, and I accidentally sent some money to my personal account, and I thought that was a taxable event, and I was like, oh my god, seriously. Uh, but then you can send it back, but you obviously just have to. How's that best recorded on the banking software so that the accountant knows at the end of the year, so there's no uh confusion, basically?

Anita

Well, if you're sending money to your business account, it would be it would be you you would just do it as a transfer to the current account, and then when you transfer it back, it's just transfer, it'll contour itself out.

Dr James

So label is a transfer, right? Because you know the way you can label as dividend and all sorts of things like that.

Anita

I mean, don't forget, as a sole trader, you're you're more than entitled to draw money out of that business at any point in time because you're not taxed on what you take and what you draw, you're taxed on your profits. So absolutely no concern there. There's nothing to worry about with regards to HMRC if you're taking money from that business account.

Vanessa

Yeah, the ideal the ideal scenario is that you do move money into your personal account and then pay your personal bills from your personal account and not just leave everything in one.

Dr James

Yes, okay, yeah, fair enough. Because I remember um and that and actually that's the thing worth mentioning, and Vanessa and Anita, correct me if I'm wrong on this, because this is what my accountant told me. Uh, when you take money out of your business and you put it into your personal name, some people get really really wrapped up in, oh, do I count it as income or do I count it as dividend? Right, you know what I mean? Do I count it as wage or counter as dividend? But if you basically just label it as transfer, then your accountant can just figure it out at the end of the year, which is ever the most whichever is the most tax efficient.

Anita

Yeah, that is the one way of looking at it. Yeah, and I think it's worth remembering um if if it's a limited company, it's a very different matter as to how you draw money out of that business. So we're we're today we discuss an MTD for it income tax, which is sole traders and and landlords. So it's a very different matter if you would if you take money out of the business, it is just purely a transfer.

Vanessa

It's just drawings, isn't it? It's not salary and dividends. So that that's the you know almost the the the wrong terminology for for this situation. But um, I get what you're saying. But you know, the way I work with my clients that are in a company, we we don't leave things till the year end, we plan a plan from the beginning of the year what's gonna be salary and what's gonna be drawn as dividends.

Dr James

Sure. And yeah, I should highlight that. That is for a limited company specifically, not in this sole trader. So that is a very good thing to highlight. Uh so yeah, that is definitely what I said does not apply if you're a sole trader, basically. But yes, anyway, um, moving on to the next question, we're gonna get a few in here before the final whistle, before we call time. Next question is from Laura. Sora Laura says, sorry, uh, but could you just clarify if sole trader income more than 50k but rental income less than 50k both still have to be submitted via MTD individually? Is this correct? As anything that contributes okay, do you want to jump in there? Because I feel like there's actually a second part to this question.

Anita

Yeah, so basically, your your um the way that they are establishing whether your your c you need to be in scope for MTD is they're taking all of your sole trade and rental income together combined. So if combined exceeds 50,000, you are in scope for MTD and you must report your sole trade and your rental income on a coursely basis. If your rental income is 20,000 and your sole trade income is 50,000, you still have to report both. It's not a it's not a it's not a threshold for both to be 50,000. It's combined. And if you combine no matter which way, which one's the more and which one's the less, they both have to be reported.

Dr James

Yeah, once you're in for one, you're in for all cumulative, in in other words, yeah.

Anita

But yeah, so even though it's cumulative that's taking you over the threshold, you still have to submit two separate returns, one for rental, one for trade.

Dr James

Correct. Okay, fine. Sounds good, Laura. Hopefully that clears that up. And then the second part to that question, and by the way, I'm just reading this out as it comes, so hopefully this is you haven't answered this. Um, is this correct? Is anything that contributes to total over 50k? Yeah, okay. It sounds like uh Laura's just asked what you guys have just said just then. So Laura, do let us know if that's cleared things up for you and made that hyper uh yeah, just uh, well, how can I say this, hyper clear, uh, so that obviously we are not putting a foot wrong. Selena says, Hi, would you recommend using the Zero Software app so we can upload from our phones rather than on a desktop, which may take longer to do?

Anita

Absolutely. Um, you can use both because it's cloud software. While you're out and about, use the app. When you're back at home, use a desktop. They all speak to each other, they're they're all live um data. So absolutely. If you've got zero software and you're out and about, absolutely have the app and use it.

Dr James

Great stuff. And guys, I think we've got time for one more question, so let's just slip this one in before the final whistle. Can we choose to manually input income and expenditure and choose not to auto-bank feed, then only what we input is visible. Does that make sense? I just read that out literally.

Anita

Yeah, um you if you look at the um HMRC guidelines, there's not meant to be manual retyping. So with that, what I would say is um if you you are supposed to uh import, so if you're not going to do live bank feed, you would probably need to download a CSV and import it into the software. Yeah. But HMRC and not looking at your bank account, HMRC are looking at your return and what's reported on that return. So it's really important that we highlight that. HMRC are not going into zero and looking at your banking port and looking at every transaction and going, what have they missed? They're not looking at that, they're looking at what you're submitting, which is the return. And that return is being pulled from that bank feed and from what you're categorizing into the business. Anything that's personal that you're put into the personal currents account, as we mentioned earlier, that's not going onto your report that's being submitted. So it's really important that you know that you understand that. And don't be don't be scared that the software is giving things away that you don't want given away because it's not the report.

Vanessa

It's not going to give it away as of right. The only the only risk with not separating out the personal and the business is that if there ever was a problem and there was an investigation into your accounts and your tax returns, then they would have call on that that underlying bank information and that bank account and all the transactions that are in there. But that would be only in this is in this situation where there's a tax inquiry. So something's gone wrong.

Dr James

Wonderful. Thank you for clearing that one up. And that actually brings us to the conclusion of proceedings this evening. Again, Vanessa and Anita, I think the least we can do is give you both a clap up once again on behalf of the Dennis and Vest audience for being so generous with everything that you've shared tonight. Guys, there's obviously the opportunity to take the conversation with uh Vanessa and Anita offline. Uh, should you need a little bit more specific info on your circumstances? Because obviously, we naturally don't want to go into too much personal detail on webinars such as this this evening, given that they're in the public domain. So there's obviously the QR code in front of you that we talked about just a second ago, and we will be sending the link out after this email as well that people can use uh in order to register themselves for that. Like I said, guys, thank you so much for your time, Anina and Vanessa, and of course to the audience too, because that's what makes this all so fun and all so worthwhile. We had a really amazing turnout of a hundred, over a hundred dentists this evening, would you believe, who've uh used their Wednesday to come along about making tax digital. And to me, that just shows how interesting this is and valuable it is, and just how many people need clarity on it. So, yes, as I said, congrats everybody for coming along this evening. Looking forward to the next webinar already, which will be in the Dentistry Invest platform. If you do want to get your CBD for this, we'll obviously be releasing details on that very soon. So keep an eye on your emails. In the meantime, the only thing that remains to be said is I hope everybody has a wonderful Wednesday and we'll see each other again super soon. Bye bye.

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Dr. James Martin

Host