The Importance Of Personal Brand For Dentists with Rahil Kumar [CPD Available]

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Patients do not have a checklist for your clinical skill, but they do have a radar for trust. We sit down with marketing specialist Rahil Kumar from MiSmile Media and dentist and speaker Dr Dan Shaffer to get brutally practical about personal brand for dentists in the UK, and why it changes everything from your diary to your pricing power. If you have ever thought “posting won’t really make a difference”, we challenge that comfort-zone logic and show what being visible actually does for your career. 

We talk about what a personal brand really is: not a logo, not a claim of being “high quality”, but the sum of every touchpoint patients experience. Dan shares how authenticity and integrity create a USP patients can feel, and why personal stories land when they are true rather than engineered for likes. We also explore the reality that most patients cannot easily judge clinical nuance, so they choose the dentist they trust, the one who communicates clearly and feels consistent online and in the practice. 

Then we get tactical: which platforms matter, how Instagram and Meta algorithms work, why short-form video wins attention, and what to do if you hate being on camera. We also zoom out to the in-practice details that make or break a premium brand experience, plus a case example where consistent organic social starts bringing patients in without turning on the paid ads tap.

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Transcript

Why Personal Brand Matters

Dr James 0:00

Recently on the Dentists Who Invest podcast, we've done organic marketing and full-certificate ads with expert marketers tentative director to market. Now we're going to be talking about personal brand, which is, in my opinion, one of the greatest facts to doing a business that people just don't know enough about and how it works. First of all, we need to start out by defining it. You want to listen on this one for sure in order to get yourself out there, knowing how that's done, and also knowing how that can affect your bottom line whenever it's done correctly, looking forward to steps ever. As ever, you can claim your CPD for this episode within the official Dentists Who Invest Smart Money Members Club. Smart Money Members Club also includes multiple mini courses and webinar series on finance for dentists, including how to become as tax basic as possible, as well as understanding investing. All of this content counts as verifiable CPD, and you can download your certificates there and then on completing these testing. In addition to this, we also include a whopping 10% discount on your dental indemnity and a 5% discount on lab bills for dental principles, amongst other parts and discounts for members. Please use the link in the description to claim your verifiable CPD for this episode. Welcome back to another episode of the Dentistry Invest Podcast. I'm joined today by two people, uh, Mr. Rahil, Dr. Rahil Kumar. No, are you a dentist?

Rahil 1:22

No, dude. I actually thought you were a dentist. No pure marketing man.

Dr James 1:26

There we go. There we go. Just uh in the world of dentistry, I suppose. And then it kind of comes to the territory, I guess, and rubs off on you that veneer, I suppose. And one person is certainly a doctor, and who's Dr. Dan Shaffer, who sat right next to me. And we're uh we're riding a little high today, actually, aren't we, guys? Because we're coming off the back of the business of dentistry event, which was uh but 24 hours ago we were sat in this. It was very good. It certainly was flipping good and a lot of fun. And I can't believe that we had over 400 dentists in the room at one stage. It was a real pinch-by moment. Uh, and uh, not to get too nostalgic, looking back in Dennis and Vest, I remember when I started the Facebook group, and I remember one of my best friends told me that it was it had a terrible name and it was never gonna go anywhere. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna prove you wrong. And here we are five years later, still uh still uh still still yeah, still still going, which is great. And uh yeah, it was a real culmination of all of that effort. But anyway, that's not even what we're supposed to be talking about today in this podcast. We're supposed to be talking about personal brand and how it can help Dennis from the point of view of their businesses, but also just generally, I guess, in life. And I think that a lot of people overlook this or neglect this or understate its importance or maybe just don't realize how important it is. And I always remember one thing, just to quickly kick things off. I'm a fan of Alex Ramosy, right here. I know you like him as well. Yeah, Dan. Heard of him? A fan, yeah. You're a fan? You're also a fan. I'm a fan of Alex Ramosy, and he has this one episode, right? And uh I used to listen to his content all the time, to be fair, but maybe not so much uh anymore. I used to be an avid Alex Ramosy podcast listener. Like every episode, I'd be like, oh my god, a new episode. Uh I haven't

From Dental Event High To Brand Talk

Dr James 3:00

listened to it in a while. And it was only because I felt like, okay, I'm kind of maybe hearing the same stuff again now, so I need to move on. I've obviously learned a lot of things. Anyway, he has this one episode, and he it was the day that he realized how important personal brand was. And he'd been in business for quite a while. He'd sold business for like 30 million, something along those lines. It was like uh I believe it was his business gym launch. Uh I belie I believe it was that anyway. I'm a little loose on the lore or the details, I suppose, but I remember the episode. And then I remember him talking about how he felt like he was quite competent on business, and then he saw something about how it was like Kim Kardashian, when she was 25, launched it, became a billionaire because she launched the business. And he was like, you know what? Like, I'm pretty sure, you know, no shade to her. Perhaps she's very uh, you know, you know, has a background and all this stuff and everything along those ones, but he just felt like he had more under his belt by running businesses at that stage. And he was like, But then why am I not a billionaire? Like, how the frick does this work, right? And then he was like, What's actually happened here? And then he was like, dude, it's just because she's so famous that anything she launches just gets this huge amount of headway without her even really trying. And he's just like, you know, I can be miserable and be begrudging about that, or I can just be like, This is how the world works and just accept it and try to uh, you know, you know, to take advantage of the fact that this is the case, you know, or make money from it, I suppose. If you're not that that's the only thing in the whole wide world, but that was his perspective on it, and that's what taught him how powerful personal brand is. Anyway, that was a that was an intro, that was the kind of setting the scenes what we're gonna talk about today.

Fame As A Business Advantage

Dr James 4:30

Personal brand, Rahil. How has that benefited you? How do you feel that Dennis in the UK could benefit from that? I guess it starts out with quantifying what it is or qualifying what it is.

Rahil 4:42

It's probably one of the hardest things to define. Yeah. I think everyone kind of has their own definition of branding. Uh some people are more like, you know, it's not actually a thing, it's like a feeling. Some people are like, oh, it's something something you don't control. It's like what your customers actually think about you. But I think there's a lot that you know practice owners and dentists can actually do. And then it's not just about actually saying, Oh, we're you know, we're exp you know, we're high quality, we're this, we're that, but actually every touch point of your brand actually demonstrating that. That's what some people I think don't get when it comes to branding. It's not just, oh yeah, we can say we're X, Y, and Z. It's like, okay, you've got to actually do this. And that's when your customers actually will look at you and be like, okay, what they're saying is it's true.

Dr James 5:36

Sure. And I should I should uh mention as well that Radhill, the reason why you've got some experience in this matter is because of course you run MySmile Media, uh, and that's obviously a joint venture with your dad, Sandeep, uh, which is interesting. So you see dentists benefiting from this a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, I'm sure, and you're you'll be the one who's trying to say trying to get them to see the light on that front only because they're gonna benefit from it.

Rahil 6:00

100%. It's you know, I've seen firsthand kind of my dad's journey. Um and obviously where he started to where he is now, he's subconsciously

Defining Brand Through Touchpoints

Rahil 6:13

over a lot of those years built a brand without even knowing it, and then only in the past, let's say a couple of years has it been more realised what he's doing. But you see it like all across the industry, like you think of the you know, the biggest names in the industry, you even think of the event that you know you guys held spectacular yesterday. You're building a brand, you're building a a following of people who get the like you know, these people like you know the the events on Saturday, but a lot of people have very exciting Saturday plans, but they chose, you know what, I'm gonna come to business adventure street and I'm gonna listen to you guys and listen to all the people that are connected to your brand. It's like you build this following of of like-minded people. Um and I think now more than ever, it's it's just exceptionally important. Like with AI, I think there's so much information wherever you want it. Like, if I want information about something, I can find it. But the difference is is having someone give you that information and intertwine like you know, their own personal story, their own experience. Which makes you trust them. Like, you know, I think I go back to uh your story yesterday on stage then as um as one of the things that really stuck with me stuck with me yesterday about the event. If you told any other story that was like, you know, just a generic story, you can just pick it off the shelf, people probably would have stopped listening on the phone, but it was that personal story that comes with building a personal brand and being authentic that you know really hit home for me.

Dr Dan 7:58

And I'll tell you what, you made me think just whilst you were talking there about me as a dentist, you made me reflect on what makes me my personal brand as a dentist. And and I was just thinking whilst you were talking, there was stuff going on inside of my head just to try and identify what it is that contributes to making me a personal brand. Is it the letters after my name? Well, probably not, because that's not me. Is it the fact that I've got doctor in front of my name? Well, probably not either. It used to be maybe 30 years ago, but but nowadays it's very different. And I think it's based around communication skills. What's your USP or unique selling point? And that is the way that you talk with your patients, the way you present yourself. And I met some dentists yesterday, and um, you know, I'm sure you've met lots yourself, um, who have you know 20,000 followers on Instagram. They have an Instagram page full of pictures of lovely teeth that they've done, and you know, that's built a brand for them. Yeah, but without that those communication skills and that integrity, that I am me as a dentist who you can trust, and it's a mixture of expertise and likability. Yeah, definitely, and if you get the mix right between expertise and you can showcase that um, you know, to your patients, like I'm really good at fillings, or I'm really good at crowns, or I'm really, you know, whatever, uh, or I'm a good endodontist. And then likability. Well, you know, you can trust me, you can talk to me, you can you know, tell me all kinds of stuff, and we hear all kinds of things in the dental surgery. If you mix those two properly, you get trust. And this is what patients want, and this is how you build your brand. And and so I was just reflecting

Trust Comes From Expertise And Likeability

Dr Dan 9:41

on that and thinking, in fact, that integrity is so important as the USP behind your personal brand.

Rahil 9:48

100%, and it again it comes back to a lot of dentists will focus on the service that they offer the what be it you know, be that um Carolina's like invisible, be that implants, be it bonding, be it whatever, but from a customer's point of view, the majority of them aren't educated enough to notice the the clinical skill, like you know, the gap in clinical skill. They think, okay, a dentist is a dentist.

Dr Dan 10:16

Yeah.

Rahil 10:16

So what are they actually choosing? They're buying into you as a person. And that's where like you know, your story, your why, you know, your authenticity, integrity, that likability, and actually, you know, coming across as yourself. Like there's no ROI in coming across as someone else. The best thing you can do is kind of be authentic, and people can tell when you're not. Like, you know, I'm sure you've been chatting to someone, and you can tell that you know, you're very different in person to how you are on social media, and you always you know that mismatch is that it's like a shop window, isn't it?

Dr Dan 10:50

So you look at the shop window or you look at the practice website and you see all these lovely nurses with the hair done, uh, you know, lacquered back and smart uniforms and all lined up at the right angle, your branding colours match, and then you walk into the surgery and the door hinge creaks, and there's a there's a stain on the ceiling tower where there was a leaking pipe last year in the winter. And you think, hang on a second, it doesn't match up to my expectations.

Rahil 11:12

Exactly. Yeah, there's a sticky piece of paper on the reception desk that says something irrelevant, and it's just like you portray yourself as one thing, but for the customer, it's that it's the whole journey. So if you are branding yourself as something, every touch point from like you know, obviously your messaging on be your ads, your social media, your website, yes, that digital journey is massive, but also you've got to, you know, you've got to talk the talk in the practice as well. So it's got to feel everything that you're you're saying is.

Dr James 11:42

And you know what, Dan? Um I actually at the event, yeah, actually, I actually had a nipped out of the room uh uh what when you were on, when you were talking, I was preoccupied doing other things. But what was that story that you shared on stage?

Dr Dan 11:54

Just so quickly. What I did is I shared three stories, but the particular story that I think you're referring to is my own personal experience through a grief journey of losing my daughter, she was stillborn 18 years ago. And what I did is I took that experience as a grief journey and tried to explain how someone in deep grief feels and how that matches with their professional life of being a dentist on a daily basis, and how it actually feels to sit there being immersed in grief, and also after you've taken a bit of time off, being back being a dentist and having that dentist persona and professionalism to meet patients, meet 20 patients a day or 30 patients, whatever it is, go through the motions, but yet you feel like you're you know disembodied looking down at yourself for a film script because you know that the reality is that you're in this grief journey, and and that's very difficult for professionals because you know, dentists, doctors, lawyers, working in a shop, you know, whatever your walk of life, it doesn't really make any difference. You still eventually need to go out and make money and work and bring home money for food and rent and bills, but yeah, that's very, very difficult to reconcile the two. And when I looked out to the audience and I said to them, and and I didn't use that personal story in order to upset the audience at all, it was in fact the opposite. I didn't see anyone crying, but I saw people nodding, and they recognized when I said to them, anyone who's been through difficulty, divorce, grief, all these life events, and you need to integrate that with your professional life. That is really, really difficult. It's just not easy, and everyone nods around them

Authentic Stories That Build Connection

Dr Dan 13:38

because everyone recognises that idea, and they've also been through that idea, and it can be something maybe not traumatic, you know, you've had a new baby, and until that baby's about you know 20 years old, their life's gonna affect yours in so many different ways, when they're a child alone, when they're sleepless, you know, when they're growing up, when they're a teenager, you've got worries, you're still gonna be a dentist. That's an amazing idea. So that's the kind of story I was telling.

Dr James 14:11

Understood. And you know, Dan, it's interesting because I know obviously you you've always been someone who's up for putting themselves out there, but I guess uh what has I is it fair to say that that's maybe been accelerated over the last year or so since we started business of dentistry, that's grown even more? Would you me putting myself out there? I I guess maybe just uh you yeah, well the amount of the the content that you're is going out that's going out and uh your visibility and everything along those lines, would you agree?

Dr Dan 14:40

So so as far as my personal uh development goes, I've always been very keen on digital production, digital architecture. I love uh websites, I love film production, I love all of that side of stuff, including 3D scaling technology and printing. I'm just fascinated by anything digital. And my personal content production, yes, it has uh ramped up, and that's actually since COVID. Because when Dent Street got taken away and your identity uh as Dr. Shaffer, uh you know, with the BDS after your name, that gets stripped away because you closed down for seven months. You think, well, what am I gonna do? You know, what am I just gonna sit here? No, well, actually, I love film production. I've wanted to do it for years, never had the time and the opportunity to spend on developing those skills. So I sat down and I learned Adobe Premiere, I learned web design, I learned marketing, I learned, you know, content production, and that's when it really ramped up because it freed me up when I realized that this artistic um skill and sensitivity had been hiding behind the science for decades of being a dentist, and it all just blew out the water. So you're absolutely right, yeah. In the past few years, yes, the the content production um and getting myself out of there has increased. I feel very comfortable on a stage in front of hundreds of people or doing small group courses or being behind the camera or in front of a camera.

Dr James 16:04

I I just really enjoyed it all. Sure, and you know, I just wanted to ask you one thing on that, and then I want to bring Rat Hill in on the kind of mechanics of it effectively. But what have you noticed, what benefits have you noticed in your life since you started to accelerate, accelerate that journey, or accelerate that side of your career, I guess, really, where you're putting yourself out there more.

Be Seen Or Be Forgotten

Dr James 16:24

How has that benefited? Because I think for me, one something that held me back in the day was I was just like, how much will that help? Will that actually make a difference? And you know, a lot of people are afraid to speak publicly and do content and things along those lines. And it's like there's that fear. There's there's a I love that there's a saying that I heard, and it's uh I I it really resonated with me. It was comfort zones, uh they they what's what's the word I'm looking for? They um disguise themselves is the word I'm looking for. Comfort zones disguise themselves as logic, okay? Comfort zones disguised as logic, right? And it's like you feel scared, and how your brain that's a subconscious feeling that you feel, like in the like the deep part of your brain, and how your conscious part of your brain rationalizes that is oh well, it probably won't really help you that much anyway. It it probably really isn't that good a thing to do, you know what I mean? Whereas in reality, it can't it it is, and you know that on some level, but that's how we rationalize our fear, and it's so important to not, it's so important to be self-aware enough to understand that, right? And definitely I did that a lot back in the day, and it held me back, and now I have been on the other side of that. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. I love doing this stuff, you know what I mean? So I guess a lot of people are yet to see that. So in order to help those people understand why it's beneficial, how do you feel it's helped you in your life, or what's changed since you started to accelerate that?

Dr Dan 17:50

Well, I know you like your quotes. What about Beverly Knight? Shoulda woulda coulda. And I always think shoulda woulda coulda means you're out of time. Yeah, so you can say, well, I should have done that, I would have done that, I could have done that, but actually going out there and doing it and then checking it out there is much better. And another quote for you, the Dr. Pepper advert, what's the worst that can happen? You know, someone's gonna think someone's gonna call you an idiot. So does it really matter? You know, if you go wrong, you say the wrong thing, or it doesn't, your video doesn't quite work, you know, whatever it is, you put your content out there and it flops, no one's gonna remember it tomorrow. You're only as good as your last bit of content, and you can do another boost tomorrow. So I I kind of lost fear of that kind of side of things, and just you know, carry on doing what you're doing. If you're enjoying it and you're putting quality stuff out there that you know respects integrity, and uh, you know, people quite like it and they talk to you about it, then you're probably doing something right. Carry on doing it. And if people don't notice it and you're enjoying it, then still do it.

unknown 18:46

Yeah.

Dr James 18:48

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Rahil 21:36

But there's there's all there's all sorts of different ways that you can do it. Like obviously content is the you know the one that's trending right now, shall we say. But there's so many you know different forms of content as well. I think everyone is very obsessed, and rightly so, with the way that the you know the apps are pushing it with video content and wanting to, you know, similar to what we're doing today, like you know, having this, you know, having this conversation. But what I've kind of realized is that if you're not comfortable being on camera, yes, you still need to let push yourself out of your comfort zone and try these new things. But if it gets to that stage where you resent it every time you get on camera, there are so many other forms of content that people just don't think of. I think like LinkedIn, for example, some people, while they may not be able to articulate their points on camera, when it comes to writing it down, oh my god, I can scroll through some of their posts for for days. And there's so many, so many people in the in the industry who do that really well. So it's finding kind of a content medium that works for you as well is another big thing for dentists, because you know, not everyone is comfortable on video. But I think the the big thing that we try to do when it comes to branding, personal branding, is trying to really get something of like why are you doing this? Like, you know, for some people it's you know, there's no point having a a brand just for the sake of it. For a you know, for a practice and for a dentist, there's completely different reasons to have a brand. For an associate, like you know, you're bound by the practice that you work in. But let's say if that principal decides to sell,

Content Formats That Fit You

Rahil 23:19

what happens to you? For them, building a personal brand, showing off their cases, showing off their their expertise, but also them as a person, getting people to buy into them, not only brings them patience, but it also future-proofs them that just in case they do leave that practice and they need to go somewhere else, they have this foundation to fall back on. It's a possible brand, your personal brand. It follows you wherever you go. It's not you know bound to the practice. And then from a practice's point of view, like you, you know, you can name you know probably 10, 20 massive brands in dentistry off the top of your head. And like, you know, we obviously you know specialize in Invisalign a lot, and there's this big fear at the minute of this race for the bottom. But then you'll see there's some practices and some brands that are able to consistently charge a high price and nobody bats an eyelid. Why? Because they've built their brand already. People know what it is that they're gonna get from them and they trust them to do it. So instead of having to compete on price, they maintain themselves as as one of the like as one of the luxury kind of practices in the market. So for them, they get patients kind of coming to them because they've already done the grunt work of building the brand, putting themselves out there, letting it be known that this is what we do, and backing it up with proof. Whereas everyone else is undercutting each other and this, that, and these guys are actually getting patients to to come to them, which obviously makes your you know your marketing easy. If you've got a recognizable brand and you know, you think about it not just in dentistry, which is what I think we we always get bogged down to think we like to live in this little bubble. But what we've you know, what we're trying to train people to do is actually look outside of dentistry and you know, look at all of these big brands that you trust. Whenever you uh need to make a decision, you don't know what to do, you're most likely gonna fall back on something that you trust. That's just you know, human nature. So there's so many benefits and for you know both practices and you know associates to to build it. Um but actually finding out why you want to do this is is kind of where we start and realizing that you know this isn't just oh yeah, slap a logo on my Instagram posts or you know, a nice fancy new you know, homepage on the website solves everything. There is like you know, so much more that kind of that kind of goes into it than that. Is Instagram still the go-to to build a personal brand? I think meta as a I think meta as a whole is is you know where we go. Um and it's purely because it's where like our audiences, if you look at like you know, everyone's average screen time, for example, but I think that metric just keeps going up and up and up. I think I think you know mine is about nine hours.

Dr James 26:07

It's shocking, isn't it? You know, when you get that little notification at the end of the day, and I'm like, how have I spent six hours on the phone today? Like, I I just don't know how that's happened, you know.

Rahil 26:18

And if you can you can break it down by like where you spend it in terms of your apps as well. Oh, and I it's the same apps that always up here on mine at the top, but it's not just this way for us, it's the same for like you know, our audience as well. They're the ones also spending time on this, and the way that the algorithms are with social media now, they're so clever. And like, you know, people get you know so confused with the algorithms these days. And the way I kind of like to look at it and reframe it is the algorithm's job is to keep you on that app for as long as possible. So they need to show you content that is you know gonna either entertain you or solve your problem or make you feel C. They want to keep you on that app as long as possible. And Instagram, like you know, meta as a whole, do that phenomenally well. Um, and you either be a you know, you're either creator or you're a consumer. You either sit there scrolling, doom scrolling, or you're actually like, you know, this is where my potential patients are. I'm gonna put myself out there and and go and do it. You'll be hard pressed to find someone without an Instagram account these days. I'm pretty sure if you did a you know

How Social Algorithms Reward Attention

Rahil 27:25

hands up with your, you know, with the 400 people that you had yesterday, I'd be surprised if that if there's anyone there without a meta account. And it's probably the same for the people, you know, out on the street, there are potential patients. Like, you know, this is where they spend their time. So you've got to you've got to go to them.

Dr Dan 27:41

And and and it's really interesting actually what you're saying because that infinite scrolling made up of autoplay videos, video content is king, of course. So if you're watching video, short form video, you've got to, if you want to uh have yourself in there, you've got to create short-term video because you're competing. So you as a dentist or you as a dental practice, short-term video, uh short-form video is absolutely king because that's what people are watching constantly on doing scrolling six hours or nine hours. And another really interesting uh thing that happened when they started taking phones out of schools was they realized that uh even though school children didn't have phones, secondary school children, during the daytime, they still had the same average screen time by the end of the day because they made up for it after school time. And and that's fascinating, and I'm sure it's the same in adults as children. It's gonna be no different. Just because you take your phone away or put it somewhere else or stop uh you know, looking at content, you will then make up for it in the evening. Yeah.

Rahil 28:43

It's fascinating. The algorithms are that that's so good these days, isn't it? It's like you know, everyone's feed is just perfectly created for you.

Dr Dan 28:52

Yeah. Um here is changing though. So I hear that they're they're actually introducing a lot more random stuff instead of algorithmic triggers, and and that keeps it fresh because everyone's a little bit bored of being in an echo chamber.

Rahil 29:07

Yeah, so it kind of depends on, you know, it kind of depends on the content you engage with and the content that you like. So, you know, if you get a video and you're on it for two seconds and you swipe up, the algorithm is like, okay, this sort of content this person isn't engaging with. But if you watch a video the whole way through, it sends another signal to the algorithm that he likes this sort of content, I'm gonna push more of it. Um so the like you know, the algorithms are are so clever these days, but what I think dentists sometimes fail to get with them is, and it comes back to this, you know, living inside the bubble. You're not just in competition with other dentists when it comes to the algorithm. You are in competition with someone, you know, someone just got engaged, someone's just gone on holiday, there's you know, all of this um AI brain rock content, there's like you know, all these funny that you're that's where your content's sitting. It's not sitting in like you know, this echo chamber of just dental content, it is sitting in a you know, you know, on social media with everything else. So if your content is literally just one thing over and over again, and for majority of dentists is that static before and after, you're not just in this, you know, compared to other dentists before and after, you're compared to everything. And if people think, oh yeah, this doesn't fit what I usually like, they scroll past it. It's just finding, you know, each platform's made for different things, and it's realizing that okay, I need to play to the platform strengths here. Like, you know, you're not gonna as much as we want to, we're not gonna change the way that Instagram or Facebook or or LinkedIn is. You know, they're built for specific purposes and your content has to you know.

Dr Dan 30:49

And it's not just about socials, is it? I mean, as a dental clinic, your position not just against other dental clinics like it used to be decades ago. Consumers, I'm gonna call them consumers not patients. Yep. They're consumers. Your patients are consumers, and they're gonna compare your practice and your service to Barclays Bank or Virgin Trains or uh, you know, budgings, or you know, whatever else, other levels they use hotels, wellness, but like you see. When they come in, they're expecting the level of service that they get from other companies and businesses.

Rahil 31:20

You see, practices these days they look more like you know, wellness retreats than they do dental practices now. And it's you can remember David Lloyd Jim's. Exactly. Um it's it's like you know, like it's moved far beyond just like you know the uh you know what it used to be before with just you know how a typical NHS practice used to look. Um and then it it comes down to again that branding. Like, you know, it's not just obviously what you see on social media, it's all of these touch points from when they walk into the practice. One thing that like that we're experimenting with is like how does the practice smell like when you walk in? Yeah, it's the same thing when you walk into a luxury hotel. There's always a smell. And and things you don't think about, like how thick is the toilet paper? Or you know, weird, but you know, is the loot brush new? It's the most ignored part of a dental practice is the toilet. Everyone puts so much emphasis on, oh, I need this dental chair, I need this, like you know, I need this screen above the patient. But then a lot of patients, when they you know, when they actually come into the practice and they need the toilet and it looks run down or it's in the corner, it's like, what image does that send?

Dr Dan 32:24

Do people use the toilet as kind of uh like a milestone almost, like a marker? And I know my wife when she goes to people's houses, and I hope none of my friends

Branding Beyond Social Media

Dr Dan 32:33

are listening to this, because you know, she'll go into the loo and she'll comment later on on oh, that loo was lovely. Well, you know, it wasn't the wallpaper. No, they've just done it, or you know, very clean house. You know, the the toilet is the heart of the home in a way. It's very weird to think of it like that.

Dr James 32:48

There's a standing right, and it's something along the lines of you can judge the sophistication of society by the standard of their bathrooms or something. There's something like that. I remember reading that somewhere, and um, I remember someone quoted that, and then they said, and if that's true, Japan is the pinnacle of um uh the developed world, I guess, really. I did this anyway. Moving on.

Dr Dan 33:10

No, I did this at the hotel. When I walked into the bathroom, I checked behind the door for any dust on the floor to see whether the room's clean. Yeah, people do use arbitrary markers in dental clinics as well as looking at social.

Dr James 33:22

Okay.

Dr Dan 33:22

Like in socials, is the logo central? Is it proper? Is it you know, is it a bit scrappy? And if you don't do it properly, then people notice it very quickly.

Dr James 33:31

What did what good point, good point, Dan? And what do what do dentists do wrong when it comes to their personal brand, Rahil? Like, where do they mess up? Like, what has you scrolling through your Instagram feed and you see something and you're like, oh man, seriously?

Rahil 33:44

Uh the biggest thing that a lot of them do wrong is they don't do it. Is honestly if you reach if you want if you if you want the biggest thing is that they don't they don't see the importance of it. Um, I think for both practices and associates, I think we've covered it like you know in depth. Like there are so many benefits to like you know actually being able to be seen. Because if you're if you're not on, you know, if you're not doing this, you're just invisible. Like, you know, you're relying on people to find you in ways that, yes, people still use it, but you've got to adapt to the way that you know your customers, you know, they're they're buying and their searching habits are. And you know, I'm pretty sure we can we can all attest to it now. It's no longer just as simple as, oh, I see uh, you know, I see an ad, I go to a landing page, I book in, yep, it's done. It's like you're inviting them almost to be part of your world now. The amount of touch points it takes someone to actually submit an inquiry has gone through the roof. I think some people are saying they need to see you like upwards of like 10, 15 times before they're like, especially if they have no knowledge of you, to actually book that first appointment with you. Now, if you consider it in terms of right, if they need to see me 15 times and then not seeing me on social media, suddenly that 15 times is like, well, where you know, where you know where where are they gonna find me? So, in that sense, if you're not doing it, you're invisible. Um, so actually getting started is is a massive thing. And then the other thing is kind of following what

Mistakes That Break Credibility

Rahil 35:15

the you know what the biggest names in the industry are doing is another one. Um and you know, there's nothing wrong with taking inspiration. I think we all do it, like both inside and outside of dentistry. We all kind of look for inspiration wherever we can find it. But just copying someone just because, oh yeah, you know, let's say, you know, I think the the big example is uh is Milad, the singing dentist. Like, you know, just because he's made it, you know, you know, he's made his brand doing it this way, doesn't mean that someone else can just come in like, yep, I'm gonna now start making dental parodies and be successful. But he did it, and the way that he does it is so authentic, it's so real, it's so him that it's worked. If someone else does it and just doing, and you know, they can someone can tell you just doing it for the views, it won't have the same effect. And you were talking about influencers before, and obviously they've got a big following. But the amount of influencers that will launch something, like you know, they'll launch a product, they'll launch a course, they'll endorse something, and people won't buy it because they're not actually bought into like that influencer as a person, they just you know, they just follow them because they made a trending reel that they liked or something. It's not necessarily about having the biggest following. I think that's what a lot of people get confused about. It's not like you know, we don't need to go viral as a dentist a lot of the time, but you need to have the right people following you, the right people trusting you, buying into your message, and that's what really you know makes a difference and compounds over time.

Dr James 36:41

Nice. And yeah, I mean, uh, how can I say this? I think for a lot of people it's it's just getting started, really, isn't it? And would you say the biggest barrier is mainly comfort zones?

Rahil 36:55

Yeah, I think you know, in in one sense, it's like I'm you know, I I'm on this journey now myself. I think the the team have been on me to you know starting my own personal brand, and I'm now encountering the same thing that every dentist is constantly moaning at me about, and I'm saying, no, you've just gotta do it. Is you know, it's it's not easy. It is not easy to like you know, put yourself out there and you know be open, open to judgments. Um, but I think the thing that I'm starting to you know to realise is that I will over-analyse my content so much more than than anyone else will. So it is in essence like a getting, you know, figuring out why you're doing it, and then breaking it up into you know, you don't need to do everything at once. You're not gonna go from starting it tomorrow to you know famous in in in a week. It's very rare to have overnight successes, as you both know in Dentashkir. It takes time, it takes repetitions. Like people compare social media to the gym, and they expect, oh yeah, first post gonna go viral. It's like going to the gym once and expecting to be completely ripped. No, but what it does is it teaches you like you know, okay, this is what I need to do, and it's reps, reps, reps, finding out what exercises you're comfortable with. Like, you know, some people hate certain exercises in the gym and they'll go away from them, but they love this. It's just finding out what you're you know, what you're comfortable with, and then just reps, reps, reps. There's no substitution for it.

Dr James 38:24

And I guess where you can help is you can obviously set up and you can advise, I guess, really, on how I dentist goes about that, because you've seen it so many times.

Rahil 38:33

Yeah, so we we help in obviously a couple of different ways. Um, we help on the on the kind of branding and personal branding front in kind of helping them to you know articulate their story and actually figure out, okay, this is where we are now, and this is where we, you know, this is where we want to be in the next couple of years. And a lot of brands, like you know, they were set up 15 years ago and haven't been touched, and it doesn't reflect where that person is now. So we kind of take you know their journey, their story, and basically bring it into where they are and where they want to be. And obviously that does involve a visual element with you know, with logos, with colour palettes and everything to do with that. And then on the social media side, we do a we do more of a dung-for-you process. Because what we found is when we give dentists the freedom of okay, we want you to film X, Y, and Z for us, and this is how like you know, this is what we want you to do, these same doubts crept in. So, what we'll do is we'll go in there all with a pre-agreed kind of content plan, and once we filmed everything with them, we'll be, you know, we'll be the ones editing it, captioning it, posting it, looking at all the reporting, the metrics, everything, and just leaving them with the time, like you know, with the time saved to go and do what they love, which is the clinical dentistry, and leaving us to kind of manage that account for them, and then obviously we come back, we look at what's worked, what hasn't, and just accelerate on from there.

Dr James 40:01

Can you give me just one thing just to round off on? Can you give me an example just to make this really tangible for the audience? Can you give us a case study off the top of your head where you had dentist, Mr. Smith, Dr. Smith, and he or she they were

Done For You Branding Support

Dr James 40:16

a little nervous to get out there, then they kind of stole the light, they went and did it. And when they did that, what then happened was the practice grew by examined, or they were able to leave their job as an associate and start a squat or something along those lines. I think you can think about it.

Dr Dan 40:30

When you said stall the light and the lights came on.

Dr James 40:32

You know what? I've just realized that the lights are linked to us moving around because they saw a random move.

Dr Dan 40:40

Exactly. That was like uh a perfect Instagram moment.

Dr James 40:44

I was waiting for that moment. I was I was I was waiting to use that nine and then turn the lights on. That's what actually happened. But yes, there we go. It was all scripted. But yes, anyway, uh Randall case studies that you can think of. I'm sure you've had a few over the years.

Rahil 40:58

Oh, yeah, there's there's so many case studies on the on the social media side, and I think on the on the personal branding side, the it's a bit harder to it's a bit harder to think on the personal branding side. It's it's one of those, you know, when you you most need it, they just escape your head. Uh they're all on they're all on like our socials and our website, which is really annoying. Um but in terms of like practices that we work with, like you know, Lenin Dentals, Lenin Dentals, one of them, they came to us and they were literally like barely posting, like they knew the value in it.

Dr James 41:33

Yeah.

Rahil 41:33

And they every so often get a surge of motivation to do it, and they become so active for a week and then busy practice, things to do. What's the first thing to drop that drops off? Oh yeah, like you know, we don't need you know, we don't need social media this week, it's fine. But you know, they they knew what they you know, they knew that the platform rewarded consistency consistency, and they knew that they wanted to like, you know, it's where their patients are and they want to push themselves out there. So they kind of came to us and uh we've been working with them for I think about six to nine months now. And I think if you look at their if you look at their stats, like you know, in terms of the the metrics that everyone looks like, you know, their their followers, their views, everything like that is completely like I don't think they've ever had ever had stats like it. But I think the thing for us that is always you know the thing that we look at is they're actually getting patience from their organic social media. So as much as we love to focus on, oh yeah, they've increased their follower count by you know six, seven hundred, and you know their video views are now like you know in the in you know around one thousand, two thousand per video, whereas before it was you know around a couple of hundred. Like you know, these metrics are great,

A Practice Case Study With Results

Rahil 42:42

but what actually is you know, what is this doing for the practice? Yes, it's making us more visible and it's actually bringing patients in. And each of those patients, you're not you know, turning the paid lead, you know, the paid advertising tap on and having to to pay for all of them actually coming to you naturally. Um so those are always like the biggest wins for us when we see both associates and and practice kind of actually getting those results from it from a patient point of view. I think it'll