This week Eimear tells the other Bluffers about the story of singer and actress Anne Bracegirdle and her very unwelcome admirers.
If you would like to support us please copy and paste the link below: https://www.patreon.com/operabluffs
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1cyMUXduglZlcOt7X6Dr7d
https://www.instagram.com/operabluffs/
https://twitter.com/OBluffs
This week Eimear tells the other Bluffers about the story of singer and actress Anne Bracegirdle and her very unwelcome admirers.
If you would like to support us please copy and paste the link below: https://www.patreon.com/operabluffs
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1cyMUXduglZlcOt7X6Dr7d
https://www.instagram.com/operabluffs/
https://twitter.com/OBluffs
Hey, hello? Hi,[inaudible] Chris. Your beginning to look a lot like Christmas today in reindeer antlers. That's accent native. Where's your sticks gun. Oh, I had to take them off, but there were no highlighters. I'm not a drummer anymore. I'm a lawyer. Was it getting confusing? Changing hats like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Okay. So what else is happening? So hang on Kathy. Every week, you've one job. Welcome to prep. Laughs with me, Catherine, me EMA. I thought I should make you more work and special guests today. I suppose you'll get legal representation this week, um, is also here, but can we scratch the legal representation part? I think it's important that they know they come after us. If they do want to come after us, they should go through you. We think it's very important. You'd be the fall guy. But then I could just be, I could be the bodyguard like Kevin Cosby. No, not bodyguard. What's the person that you went to the pub or the Navy be a shirt. Spencer. You're tiny. Yeah. I mean you're tiny, but they don't know that. Oh, that sounds like we're being sizes again. So I actually have something to tell you. Um, so last week when we were talking about Mozart's Requiem. Yeah. Yes. And I incorrectly guessed that it had something to do with the lion King. Um, I looked at all and I'm not the only person to have thoughts, something along those lines in the word that well, no, no, no, no, no. Wait. Okay. All right. I may actually be the only person that thought it of the Requiem, but um, there is a song in the lion King that is so close to Abbe. Verum Corpus. Oh yeah. And when you install them, like next to each other, uh it's it's like, I was like, Oh my God. I've discovered like a rip-off. But um, nobody else seems to feel that way. Everyone's like, wow. Inspiration. Isn't it lovely. So, Oh no, it is a ripoff. I thought D Disney movies were famous for that. They do take a lot of classical themes and I think we should probably give some, um, like a shout out to the Reddit user fairy stories. Who's the person that put this together. Okay. Now I need to share my screen. I am going to play it now. Oh,[inaudible] that seamless professional. Sorry too much.
Speaker 1:So this is the lion King, right? Yeah. It's just God, save the queen. I know. That's nice. So then plead the movie. So then this is the second one. Oh, I can't get the linking to stuff. Okay. Oh, it's the same kid and everything. Oh, I forgot her next. The[inaudible] Corpus right here and bloody God save the queen. Thomas infiltrating my brain everywhere. Right.
Speaker 2:So born. Did he do go save the queen? Yes, of course. Did Tanya God save the queen anyway. Do you remember? I told you this
Speaker 1:Back and knee of thought he'd written the Irish national Anthem.
Speaker 2:Oh God. Yes, he did not. Okay. Fine. Anyway. Oh, okay. So Kathy wanted to do this new thing. Oh, I've got a very exciting new thing. New section, new section. And actually my very good friend who is also a very good, um, Zoe done suggested this and um, she said, why is it called up pro Bluffs? And maybe you should do a bit so that people that are trying to bluff their way in opera, you should have a tip for them every week. So, um, so we're going to do that. So, um,
Speaker 4:Tip of the bluffers tip, what are we going to call it?
Speaker 2:The opera bluff of the week?
Speaker 4:Bits Bluffs. What? Wow.
Speaker 2:So I sent you a list of them earlier. I ignored them. Do you want to pick one over? Well, actually, Dave, do you have any, do you, is there anything, like if you were going to see an opera and I know you've been to some, but is there anything that you've been like, what do I do when this happens? Why do people cut? What's this mean? That I don't, but one time I went to the opera on my own. Was I in it? Well, yeah. No, no, but that's what my question. So, and I wasn't supposed to be on my own actually. It's just like, wait, we do question. Can I go on my so operas are very long and I was on my own and the interval is also very long and I ended up because of reading socially, awkward me not talking to anyone. So I wonder if you're at the opera, is it okay to talk to them?
Speaker 4:You're not allowed to talk to other people in London full stop. Okay. But, okay. So there's a bit of a disclaimer here and this is terrible because I didn't want it. But the reason why it was really painful, it was Cinderfella to give you like that. You couldn't spend 20 minutes on your own. Was it? You were a climbed born. I know this. And you were on your own
Speaker 2:Lauren Glenburn yeah. Mantra was like two hours long and I still, I still had my Ryanair carry on bag with me.[inaudible] explain what happens at Glyndebourne. Like explain the date. What happens in a day? If you go and see a show Glyndebourne. Yeah. People gonna know. Yeah. People don't know you're going to go[inaudible] you arrive. And then
Speaker 4:The show starts at about half, three, depending on how long it is between half, three and a half four. And then
Speaker 2:It was just the 20 hours.[inaudible] Oh, we laugh, but it's true.
Speaker 4:Watch the first half. It depends on how long it is. If it's very long, there are two intervals. If it's not that long, there's any one interval, but that one interval lasts an hour and a half in my memory.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And there aren't, if there are two there aren't two very nice. Maybe an hour and an hour and
Speaker 4:A half. Okay. I was talking about, I think the Glyndebourne, you absolutely can talk to other people you can, I think like, but then saying this, I have never been outside at Glyndebourne during a show.
Speaker 2:I have to say I'm with Neve being in, coming to see you in shows or coming to see other people in shows a blind born interval is the loneliest place in the world. If you're by yourself, you're going to see like a general rehearsal because all your friends are involved. So it's like, well, you can't hang out with them. They're all doing the show. And then the only people that are sort of maybe industry people or like friends and friends.
Speaker 4:No, there's literally no one
Speaker 2:Else there.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay. That's fair enough. I've never, that's never happened to me because I've never not been in the show or if I have not been with people, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I've never had to sit through an hour and a half on month
Speaker 2:Of the story is don't be alone.[inaudible],
Speaker 4:Don't be alone, but that's not really a tip.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, it's a kit of
Speaker 4:When to throw knickers.
Speaker 2:So this has stopped happening in recent opera history. And I think like I've seen videos of flowers being thrown and stuff and that it just does it
Speaker 4:Have never, do you know what I, when I first moved to London, um, in like 2001, I think it was fun. And then, um, I remember seeing people's throw flowers at the opera. I don't think I've seen it since then.
Speaker 2:No, I've only seen it. I saw it at Tasco a couple of years ago at the opera house, but they were filming it. So I sorted it Tosca with Gilkey and Brent turbo. And
Speaker 4:You know, what's funny. It was your cue that I saw flowers bring thrown out. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes. I think it's,[inaudible],
Speaker 4:She's paying people. I was selling flowers. I would do that job, but I would also probably think flowers. I think she's great. And I just love her for the fact that she's still like kind of an old school diva. Nia, do you have any idea who we're talking about? No. I'm going to York. You is like one of the biggest opera stars, but especially in the nineties and early noughties, um, she also had this, like, she was married to a tenor and they were like as famous for being in love as they were for fighting with each other. They were like the Richard and Elizabeth and Richard
Speaker 2:Were fighting with each other. I think mostly they were always
Speaker 4:Falling out. I think now this is me. I didn't know that, um, um, Alanya and he was kind of as famous as she was and they were both famous.
Speaker 2:We should say they're both beautiful. So it was all just a complete,
Speaker 4:They like the opera dream, you know what I mean? Like they were, they were going.
Speaker 2:Okay. And so when do you, what do people throw their knickers at though? I'm sure it's no, unfortunately they don't much as I asked they wouldn't no, no, they don't. They don't throw roses very much. Yeah. That's the only time I've seen it. Are we talking about rules? So knickers? Well, I said Imara. Well, I was thinking about the Tom Jones thing of having, you know, underwear thrown at him. And I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong. I've I've never seen that happen to an opera singer, but, um, no, I've never, but if it has yeah. Shame. Uh, but yeah, so that's uh, so if you want to throw flowers at your favorite singer, why not? Just to make sure that light I'm just imagining
Speaker 4:Like clothes anymore because of like allergies and.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Maybe I'm just imagining myself having really misinterpreted this podcast and going alone to an opera at the stage. So the opposite of that. Well, I wonder if it's something that still happens on the continent more probably is. I don't know.[inaudible]
Speaker 4:Yeah. Solo, knicker throwing she,
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't want you to do this to me, but it would be pretty funny if you give me really bad advice then and sent me along. Oh yeah. Actually needs the first thing to do. As soon as the orchestra they'll warm up at the beginning. Right. And then everything is very, very quiet before the overture. And then you want to stand up and shout as lasting can whatever's on your mind. She didn't want, that would start off with a bit of a[inaudible].
Speaker 4:Well, on that note, maybe I should start lads. Sorry. Okay.
Speaker 2:That's enough of that in guys. This is a long one. Shouldn't have been,
Speaker 4:I went down too many wormholes, so okay. I am going to, Oh, here's another shout out who I'm allowed to name?
Speaker 2:I got a tip off.
Speaker 4:This was not where I was. I was doing someone else. And then I got a tip off from Dr. Estelle Murphy, T university college university, university, Southern environment,
Speaker 2:Enemy national university. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And it's in Minuth and she's a Catholic at this, an actual musicologist. I know like, like an academic, which maybe that's probably why they're like unicorns. It's probably why I shouldn't name her retakes. I'm about to completely bastardize what she's asked me to do, but she didn't tell me. She just gave me a name. Right. Excellent. Okay. So
Speaker 5:This
Speaker 4:Is so thanks for Stella. Still gave me this name. I'm going to tell you the story of a lady called and brace girdle.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Have you ever heard of, and that means nothing. Nope. Not once. Not even once.
Speaker 4:So what's like the most famous actress of her day, which was just for the record. Um, not the dates I've written down.
Speaker 5:I was, it was the 18th century London because I'm getting a little bit, no, it actually was 17th bit obsessed 17th century. I've written down
Speaker 4:Here, which is amazing that immediately I've got the wrong dates. Could someone else Google or no, don't Google Googler. Don't give me. Um, but for the laugh I've written down that she was born in 1608 and died in 1707
Speaker 5:[inaudible] but definitely not when she was alive. Wow.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Um, she was born in 1671, two.
Speaker 5:This is, so the thing about
Speaker 4:An girdle is that nobody that's not true is that hardly anybody who's done any, like digging on her. The only reason I know anyway is that then this will become clear. All of, pretty much all of the main references to her are from the accounts of the men surrounding her life. So the only, so shout out to this lady, right? So this is where I got the majority of my information and like a credit, like where I can say this is probably the truth. So there was a lady in 1965 who wrote a thesis at called Juliane farrier and Utah state university in the English department. She based her thesis on and brace girdle and they've put it online. Oh, awesome. That's the only bag I could find that anyone has ever written on this woman other than a Wiki page. Do you know what I mean? So anyway, so I don't know if you know anything about the 16th, the story of the 17th century, right? Neve do you, uh, very little. So it was called the, um, the restoration it's when Charles the second was brought back, the monarchy was so the monarchy was gotten rid of by Oliver Cromwell, and then it was good. So one of the reasons why men played all the parts of the theater was that first of all, there was no theater. Uh, and then before that women weren't allowed to play parts in the theater. So, um, all the female parts were played by men and then Oliver Cromwell was like, it, lads. I'm a pure Attarian. There can be no crack here, close the theaters down. No, one's allowed to have any fun. And then everyone was like, yeah. And then went with that. And then a couple of years in we're like,
Speaker 5:What the is this? No crack.[inaudible]. So then there
Speaker 4:Was a revolt and they found King Charles, the second, who was like the son of King, Charles, the first who Oliver Cromwell, cut his head off or cut the head off off, cut the head off of, is that a thing? Um, and they put Charles back beheaded. Yeah. That's it beheaded. Yeah. And the second went back in to, it became.
Speaker 5:Sorry. So there was just like then a little while where there was no King. And then everyone was like, actually, this is. Yeah. There's the King. It was fun.
Speaker 4:Brutal crack lads, Charles. The second was, he was absolutely party party. Last. He was fun. He drank too much. He like, he had a million illegitimate children and mistresses from everywhere. There was no crack. And then there was all the crack. Um, and it just to set the scene, right? So when Charles like opened the theaters, obviously they were like, but not black market theaters. What are they called? Like underground theaters, but like not everybody could have access to them. So when Charles got back into contraband, contraband theater,
Speaker 5:Uh, Contra muggle,
Speaker 4:Um, Charles Lake said, that's cool. They opened the theaters. And for the first time, I'm not going to say ever, cause that's probably not true, but in ages, um, women were allowed to play women parts on stage. Right.
Speaker 5:But how would they be believable?
Speaker 4:So the, because then suddenly men could see women, attractive women live. That's why, um, they wanted to hang out with all these like attractive people. And that's where the sort of actress prostitute thing came from that like correlation because men were so sort of turned on by them that in their mad buddy, male fantasies, they, they could have these women. Now a lot of them, the rich ones did have them because obviously these, you couldn't be an actress, a fewer of like a higher sort of social standing. And you couldn't be one if you were like too low social standing because you couldn't read. So no one was so somewhere in the middle, they were finding these like actresses to come and play these parts. And then everyone was like, ah, prostitute. So anyway, and brace girdle was born at some point in the 16th century. When did I say 16? Something, 70 something, whatever the that was. Does anyone remember? Yes, it's 60 and 7,671. Right? That's well, that's when she's really rich of being born because she was a woman. No one gave a and wrote it down there. I'm also not really sure who the her mum and dad were there is I'm seeing multiple, um, thanks for her birth. Yes. So there we go. There were loads of it. So no one knows, right? Partly because she was abandoned by her parents and given to this like acting troop now, quite a high up acting troupe. She, she was easily the daughter of a guy called just stinting in brace girdle, who was like a, kind of a, nobody, or she was the daughter of this guy called or the wholesaler Richard brace girdle, who was this like high class, like rich guy who lost all his money and Ann was born. And instead of because they couldn't suddenly afford another child, they gave him her to this guy called Thomas Betterton and his wife, Mary, who were actors. But they were actors in the Jukes company, which was the company set up by Charles the second. So they weren't like any old actors. They were like pretty live in like fancy, fancy, total fancy actors. So, um, and made her stage debut at the age of six. Okay.
Speaker 2:Wow. Yeah. And she
Speaker 4:Kind of pretty much stayed in the theater, but she was sort of was like, you know, a bit part, she was a little child, like she wasn't being childlike labored or anything.
Speaker 2:She wasn't doing like, no, no.
Speaker 4:It was like, well, to me, I was in her early teens when she started like making sort of turning heads and making like headway. And it's because she became, she was really good-looking. So when she[inaudible], she started playing like boy parts, she started to become like a little bit more famous, uh, because she started playing britches roles. Now this is only important because britches roles meant that because she was playing a young boy. She was getting her legs out. Oh, wow. So like the little Husky that she was. Yeah. For what, how old was she now? Like a 13 year old. So she was getting it. So obviously she's getting her legs. So then everybody assumed she was loose except that she was notoriously. And for the remainder of her life, this is important. Remained a Virgin. Oh, I see. Okay. It's important. It's important because from her early teens, which is a bit Peewee or whatever, uh, men became obsessed with her because she was a Virgin. So this is like Emma Watson.
Speaker 2:Yeah. All over again. Yeah. Yeah. No. Do people have a thing for Emma Watson? Like as for Miami? No. Dan, you remember like the countdown for her, like being legal. It was disgusting that you remember that. Yeah. I remember that. That's the thing. Oh, it was horrible. So we think we've moved on as a society.
Speaker 4:No, that's exactly it. So she was the Emma Watson, like fine. That's exactly what was happening. So she became quite notorious. People became obsessed with going to see her. And then the older she got, she began like playing the, like the young love, like the heroin parts, especially. So one of the guys that she was the seemed to happen in like early theater where like, if you were, if you worked well with someone, you worked with them a lot. So she ended up working as like the love interest to this guy, William Monfort an awful lot. And William Manfreda piety, he was like this total ride. Right. So a total fat, everyone thought he was like the most handsome thing ever. And he fancied himself as a bit of a playwright. So he wrote like three plays that were actually like produced and starred himself. And at breasts girdle, and maybe his wife, his wife was also, um, an actress called Susanna, um, Montfort. But so he wrote these plays, but mainly with them, uh, and in mind, because they were so kind of infamous playing off with each other, but people didn't believe that they weren't like doing the naughty. Yeah. Because they were so convincing onstage. So like, Anne's like virginity sort of kept this thing, like a fire, like all of these rumors and all of these men coming to the theater. I know it's totally grim. Right? Like, um, one of the, so one of the guys who came to the theater an awful lot was a guy called captain Richard Hill. Captain Richard Hill became completely obsessed with them. Now, be it, Anne might be only 17 at this point, trash lately obsessed or there, uh, Richard Hildy fairs only about 20 captain Richard Hill was besties with Lord Baron, Charles Mowen the fourth. Cool. That role does. Yeah. So Lord Baron, Charles. Oh yeah. Lord Baron. Charles Mowen the fourth happened to be really good pals with and William Mumford. So Richard Hill, captain Hill, it's kind of like socially sort of like, God has close into the Lord Baron Charles Moore and the fourth. I'm just coming with Lauren from now on, by the way. Cause that's too much to say and
Speaker 2:Moulin let's call it.[inaudible] just like Johnny Mo.
Speaker 4:I turned him out. Okay. I can deal with Charlie Mo. Is that what we're going to call him? Okay. Maybe I should just walk in from Charlie lads.
Speaker 2:I it's at the moment I have William Munford as Billy Mon uh, Richard Hill is Dick Hill Charlie. Most. So I don't know if you want to run with that or not.
Speaker 4:Billy Mo isn't no, I, so Charlie Mo Charlie Mo. Oh yeah. No. So what's anyway. this. Right. That was very funny but
Speaker 2:Confused. So here we go. This is where it gets complicated. So
Speaker 4:The night of the 9th of December nine at 1692, Richard captain Richard Hill goes to, uh, Lord Baron, Charles Mowen the fourth and asks him to help him kidnap and brace girdle.
Speaker 2:Oh God. Oh Jesus. So they hire 16.
Speaker 4:And the idea is that they're gonna like neighbor when she comes out of like, she's at a friend's house near temple in London, and they're gonna NAB her and shove her in the carriage. Um, Oh my God. When she comes out right. And then whisker off and then he'll have his business with her check. She's a very[inaudible] and give her back, actually I think give a back, was the plan to give back or just to take a normal plan was to take her forever. Yeah. Uh, but he called it,
Speaker 2:But it was to take her forever. So, and so
Speaker 4:It was kind of, well, it failed because Anne didn't come out alone. She came home with her mom, uh, Mary what's, her name. And, uh, they've made such a rocket screaming and clinging to each other. And the six men sort of struggled that like it grew crowd. And so the six men plead flat, flat, flat, flat. And uh, all of this was watched by, um, Lord, what's his name? Mowen and captain Hill. But they looked at like Ellie, they put, they pretended to be like members of the concerned crowd. They just happened to be in the,
Speaker 2:Oh, so, so Dick Hale and Charlie Mowen had orchestrated the whole thing. They'd six men do this for them.
Speaker 4:They were going to show her in a carriage so that they weren't caught doing it. Oh yeah. So they were sending
Speaker 2:Like, Oh, what's this going on? We have no idea. I believe. Yeah. Cop cop, the number of kidnappings nowadays, is that what they were doing Dick Hill and Charlie Moe pretended like that.
Speaker 4:I didn't have a clue what was happening. And they were just around. And then they were like the heroes who chased off the six men and were like, Oh my God. So they then said to add in her mom, they were like, Oh, come here, ladies. We'll escort you home safely. But on the way home and was a bit like, this is fun.
Speaker 2:Not okay. Okay.
Speaker 4:She didn't live very far away. Well, she was just kinda like the sense that like they had more to do with it then, because at this point, Richard Hale had been kind of stalking and like in the theater and she had rejected him and rejected him and rejected. And she'd been like, you're disgusting, go the away. So on the way to her house, she was a bit like this. Isn't cool. They're up to something they're not, they didn't happen to just be around. Just for clarity. Near temple is in the center of London. It's very close to coven garden, which is where they would have been. Okay. And she lived very close. I didn't have to go far and was like, this is. Um, but realize that like Richard Hale, who a bit drunk with like, this is not cool. And he kept bringing up, um, William Mumford and asking her like what was going on between them and whatever. And she was like, I'll pass. So when she got home, she sent a man, one of her servants out send a message to William Hill, William Hill William Munford to be like, listen, I think something is up. Just so you know, Dick Hill, um, what's his name? Uh, barren Charlie hemo are outside my house. Don't come near my house. Cause it wouldn't have been unheard of for him to come and calling after the theater closed. So, um, this message got to William Munford in the meantime, the two men that started to like plead with Anne to come out and they were like, we're really sorry for trying to kidnap you. That was. But like, so they admitted, they admitted it to her, but they were like an Mo because Mo was a Lord. And like, it felt like he had a bit more standing than, than he was like, listen, he only wanted to kidnap you for a week to persuade you, to marry him, probably rape you.
Speaker 2:How romantic that was only a week. I'm offended.
Speaker 4:off lads, go away. This is not cool. Right. So, but in the interim while all this is happening, William gets the message. And I bet he comes over out of concern. He got this message and decided he was so worried about Anne, that he was going to check that she was okay. Yeah. So William Monfort appears on the street, walks around the corner and sees the two lads standing outside the house and Lord Charles Mowen goes up to him and yeah,
Speaker 2:I go, Hey man. And they embraced, they hug
Speaker 4:That men hugged in the 1690s, they hugged and in his ear, what do you miss? Like, Hey man, you need to keep better company. And as he's saying it Dick Hill stabs.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. Oh, wow.
Speaker 4:So then the two lads legate cause obviously they've murdered someone, but, but um, when you're Montfort didn't die on the spot. So when Montfort was taken home, uh, and he died 12 hours later, but he was alive enough to tell them who had done it and what had happened, who did it? Oh, good. So great.
Speaker 2:He believes that's the way you'd be like,
Speaker 5:Huh?
Speaker 4:Stupid. I mean, come on. I'm like,
Speaker 5:Why do we need to ask those questions?
Speaker 4:Haven't we decided now women just don't exist until I'm not, we haven't even found that when women start to exist, really, we haven't in the time. Then that happens. So anyway, so Dick Hill flees to the Island, white first and then to France.
Speaker 5:But do you know who else did the same time
Speaker 4:To avoid being caught? Feel the CBRE did exactly the same thing.
Speaker 5:Hey, Theo, fellas
Speaker 4:Later right now actually Theo see Brynn and brace GERD are connected. Yes. Because Kali CBRE, his dad famously said that the pinnacle of his career would be to shag and brace girdle. I mean, that's not quite what he said. He said it in like 18th century flowery language, but he basically said that the pinnacle of his career would be to act as brace, girdles lover or something grim. Yup.
Speaker 5:So yeah, just to connect to those stories. Yeah. All around,
Speaker 4:Bring it back. So Hill's off to France via the eyewash and Mon is arrested. Cause he's an idiot and he stayed around. Yeah, no, just to put this into context. So the Lord Baron Charles Moe and the fourth is only 16 at this point. Yeah. Now this isn't his first merger either. Yeah. Oh, let me tell you about Nord Bern, Charles Mowen. So he, his dad died when he was like four jeweling, obviously. Um, obviously then he became the law of bear in the forest. So Charles Mo sorry, your barn Charles Mullen. The third was Lord Baron. Charles Mowen the fourth dad. And they basically owned, I think most of flipping Cornwall or Devon or something that they were like huge landowners. Eh? Yeah. They actually didn't have very much money because the Charles Mowen mow the third lost at all. So how gambling, drinking and being, let's say gambling, gambling, wasn't it. And it didn't have very much money particularly, but in 1691, when he was 15, he married and then actually really sadly there, he like nine months later, him and his wife had a stillborn baby. Oh. Or a few weeks after the baby girl was born. He murdered his first dude. He had his first July, uh, he got drunk in the pub and they had a bit of an argument. Lord Kennedy. I can't remember if he survived or died. Yeah. But because it was dueling and apparently there's like this sort of like code of honor with genie that if, when this, the second part, like there's always a witness because obviously killing people was illegal then. But if you had someone to witness it, who could say that you were attacked by the other guy, you were self defending and therefore you weren't murdering, but they kind of show it a little bit in Hamilton if anyone has seen it. Oh, do they? But the, um, native, this is an opera podcast,
Speaker 5:You know, I haven't seen it. I feel terrible, but I haven't seen, Oh God, it's so good.
Speaker 4:It is. I feel a bit crap, but I don't have Disney plus. So I like literally you couldn't get tickets for it in London. And then also I was just, yeah, just didn't do, which is terrible, but I've heard nothing but good things anyway. So he got away with that one because it was self-defense or whatever. But two days later after he killed the first guy, Richard Hill, Dick Hill asks him to help him kidnap. Um, and he's like, yeah, cool. it. I'm on this Lake bender net. Yeah.
Speaker 5:So he's like, this is the guy for me. This is the kind of wing man. I absolutely very easy, easily angered quick, quite murdery 16 years old. He was just like the Academy probably more sober though. When you and I, Oh, my headphones are squishing my head. I'll just have it noted that you're at legacy. Oh, maybe it's my knee. If it was my office.
Speaker 4:Um, okay. So, uh, Nord, Charlie or whatever, Charlie Mo then uses. He's only what they say. He was 15, but it's a year after he got married and another source said he was 15 men. He got married. So he's about 15 or 16, but he's still too young to take up his seat in the house of Lords. But he isn't too young to use his Lord's privilege of being tried in the house of Lords. Oh no. This is where it gets a tiny bit pooling to call. So you have to like stay with me. Um, because at the time I sorta didn't play up. How big, so Winnie Montfort was one of the biggest celebrities right of the day. He might as well have stabbed Brad Pitt. Okay. Yeah. So they tried to kidnap Angelina Jolie and they stabbed Brad Pitt today.
Speaker 5:Right. So,
Speaker 4:And when you Montfort was so big that actually, um, Oh, here's a couple of facts, but William wants it for his leg to give him a bit of a shortage on his funeral day. They said that the bells of St. Clemens cracked when they told for his death. So that's a bit of hearsay.
Speaker 5:Wow. Wait, like in the oranges
Speaker 4:Fact, the family, the day of his funeral when they signed it out for the funeral mass, uh, and then also, wow. I know he's like the most famous guy you've never heard of. Right.
Speaker 5:Have you ever heard the, um,
Speaker 4:The term I'm going, I'm going to find this. This is cool. What is that phrase that
Speaker 5:The bushes were? No, not that one close though. What's the term about a beating heart?
Speaker 4:Never ceases or fails or something.
Speaker 5:Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Spike your face. Oh, I've written it down somewhere. It's something. What the is this another one about a beating heart lads. Be still my beating heart.
Speaker 4:Be still my beating harsh. It's not, not Shakespeare. It is not Shakespeare. It is when you Munford well done Nate. That's exactly the phrase. So that's how, you know when you're on fridge anyway.
Speaker 5:We've why, why what's the connection? He wrote the phrase. It was in his bloody play. Oh gosh. Right. Okay. So be still my beating heart,
Speaker 4:Heart to quote William Mumford to give him his juice since he didn't last very long on this mortal coil. Um, so w where are we? Okay. Uh, when it, Charlie Moe has decided to use his right as a Lord to be tried in the house of Lords. This becomes like a media, like circus, like sensation, right? So not only has one of the biggest celebrities in the world been murdered. He'd been murdered by a barren Lord, whatever the hell. Right. He's pretty much a celebrity. Uh, so it attracts and he's being tried in the house of Lords. So it attracts like everybody is interested in this. And the Lord who presided over it was called, was the Mark, is it the Mark? He's in the Mark. We, I mean, the he's of Karmazin the guy called Thomas Osborn. And he was said to show up for the trial in the largest and finest coach of its day ever seen. So in front of a Hummer, he basically showed up in a Royals, no religion. Didn't Lamborghini where I don't know, what's a fancy car. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Stretch, stretch, stretch Hummer of the day to like proceed over the, and to be seen. And it also, the trial
Speaker 4:Was dubbed the fairest trial of all time, or, sorry. it. Fairest trial of all
Speaker 5:The time. Wow. Sorry. I can't quote
Speaker 4:Exactly. It was the fairest trial that ever was seen because of all of the ladies that appeared,
Speaker 5:We've been like fast and like, Oh, Hey, it was for the women. Everybody was thrilled. Right. Cause like all these sexy ladies show up
Speaker 4:And like, it's a celebrity being tried for murdering another celebrity. Like it doesn't get better than that. Even now, I feel like
Speaker 5:All the sexy women turning up to see the celebrities, I'd like to see someone be tried and such literally it just literally just gawking. Yeah. Being nosy. I see. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Now, awesome. This is important. So, uh, Charlie Mo's dad, Charlie mode, the third was, uh, a wig. Right? So before the tone and the name of party Neve, there were Whigs and Tories. Now wigs tended to be people from London, but more liberal. And the Tories really weirdly were from like the suburbs that are not the suburbs. What are they called? The countryside like notch, the situ not London, basically. So the house of Lords was divided between toys and wigs. So Lord bow in the fourth was too young to take up a seat, but Lord bow or nor DMO Mowen the third was a big wig.
Speaker 5:A big way. Yes. So
Speaker 4:Wigs were way more liberal. Like then the pure Rotarian Tories, I might've made that up. But anyway, the wigs were notoriously more liberal rash than the Tories. So, but because there was such like, kind of fights about like, um, morality and all that crap and the, you know, like the church versus science and blah, blah, blah. These things really, really mattered. So in the, um, so all of these witnesses came forward to say that he clearly pinned Manfred down to be stabbed and he didn't let him go. He didn't have a chance to defend himself, but because they were like plebs, no one cared. And also because they needed the wigs needed Charlie Moe's future vote as the Lord, they acquitted him of the murder. So he was found not guilty. Yay. Something like 69 to 14 or something. I had obviously why I didn't write that down. But anyway, so loads basically only 14 peers found him guilty, all stories, which for one sec, she is pretty good at the tour is to actually be on the moon.
Speaker 5:Hi Greg.
Speaker 4:So that happened. And then, um, really famously queen Mary, who was a Tory, said that the verdict was symptomatic of Rotch at the heart of society. I'm not sure if the Lord's wherever at the heart of society, I'm not sure the Lords have a program through where the heart of society is, to be honest. But anyway, there you go. That's my dig.
Speaker 5:And you may guys pull it that's for a different podcast. He was found not guilty.
Speaker 4:Right? So then his like, uh, the wife of, um, so Susanna Munford is William month. A wife she's really off because like her husband's footsteps, husband's been stabbed to death. And like Charlie Mo is just got away with it completely late. Nothing's happened. Right. That he's a, nobody, but coincidentally, now I'm not calling it a conspiracy on this Susanna Manfred's dad was arrested for queen clipping. What's that right? Is that where you take like a little bit off each coin? See eventually is at the time at Queens roommate of either gold or silver. So people clip them, but it was punishable by death. So he was on. Yeah. So Sydney, her dad finds himself on death row being accused of corn kipping and shut her up. They're like, we'll not kill you, dad. We'll just ship him off to Australia or wherever everybody will die. If you shut the up about your dead husband and had the, has the Lord turned a blind eye to that murder thing that happened, I'd be on your way. And so that's how that got settled. She was like, you're fine, grant. Whoa. So that's what set them up. So she did. It's brutal. It's brutal. Isn't it. So then, and just to tell you, so no one knows what the happened to Richard Hill. In fact, after I did all this research, I kind of find a thread that said what did happen to him. And to be honest, he never really got his comeuppance, right. William Hall, that's a shame. Do you want to hear this? So Dick Hill fled to France and then this is what I just found happened to him, which is really irritating. So, um, I read in this blog that he died in a fight in a bar and I was like, yeah, right. That someone's suffering the death. Right. And then it turns out then, you know, in the comments section at the bottom, it's like Richard Hill didn't die in a drunken brawl. He died in Carlo in 1747. And he was buried Carlo and already in Ireland. Yeah. He was buried in Kilkenny. He married in the late 1690s, had many children and also served for the British army with distinction and was rewarded for the service, with the pardon for the murder. Oh my God. He became a magistrate in hell Blass in Wales before returning to Ireland. I know. I wonder if there's like a grave in Carlo you can see and throw eggs at and be like, ah,
Speaker 2:So basically
Speaker 4:Nothing happened to Dick Hill who tried to like adopt rape and, like, I didn't know what a forced marriage on someone what's that called when someone is like, uh, I dunno, but presentment, no, this is a term for it anyway. And so, uh, yeah, nothing came to him. And then, so Lord Baron, Charles Mullen the fourth, right? Obviously he got away, Scott free from this and then went
Speaker 2:On to have a very colorful history.
Speaker 4:I'm sure the Lords were sort of slightly regretted, uh, pardoning him because
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, a year later he stabbed
Speaker 4:A Hackney Coachman outside the house
Speaker 2:Of Mark. God he's finally stopping both
Speaker 5:Stabby.
Speaker 4:Did you die? So then two years later, he batches
Speaker 5:Very good at stabbing actually is for someone who does it quite a lot. Right. Two years later,
Speaker 4:He badgered a member of the press in a coffee shop. Probably someone who was like, Hey man, as it feels like to book a murder, don't want to get away with it. Yeah. Um, and then two years after battering, the press guy, he, um, had a Juul with a guy called captain Bingham, which is very pride and prejudice. Oh yeah. Barry Bingham survived that one
Speaker 5:Actually, to be honest, he is, of course, of course he did. Everybody's for at least 12 hours.
Speaker 4:He's a bit. Seven people, except that, uh, that like a couple of weeks after he tried to kill Bingham, he stopped a guy called captain Hill, uh, and ran off and he'll dip actually die. But he was then royally pardoned by queen by, um, some, the King in between Mary and Anne. There was a King guy. Can't remember his name, probably another Charles, because at the time the wigs were the one voting for war funding that the King wanted. And so we couldn't afford for them mojo. What's his name? Como to go to jail. So he put Charlie Moe. Yeah. So Charlie Moe was pardoned by the King for his vote on war funding as long as he gave it. So of course he did. So he survived that one. Then that same year he got into a fight in the pub with his mate, um, Warwick, right? Where they Oh yes sir.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Warrick. That's so weird. You English people are very strange. You know that, Oh, we just do it as a tray.
Speaker 5:This is[inaudible]
Speaker 4:Wild brick Ash. So with his pal Lord Warrick, they get into a fight with a guy called captain coach, kill him and then stab his friend who doesn't die and lives to tell the tale, which is where the come up.
Speaker 5:What are it using to stop people with? I feel like their equipment's fault pencil or what.
Speaker 4:So Lord Warrick is branded for the active merger. Yeah. They used to brand people, um, and Mowen gets away is unanimously acquitted. I know. No, I couldn't figure out why, but I'm sure there was another vote in the house of Lords that got him out of that bloody murder charge and branding. So then somehow awkward to be friends with him though. Right. He's such a psycho. He then joins the army. Right. Um, and then somehow in the army, like he gets to be a total psychopath in the army and everyone thinks he's great. Cause he's like battling and up and doing whatever, but it goes to his head. But then somehow he becomes pals with this guy called Lord Michael's field. He's important because he's like the right-hand man to the King. So when Nord Michael's field dies, he disinherits his family and leaves Charlie Mo like somewhere between 40,000 and a hundred thousand parents, this is in like 16. Right. So then I know it doesn't end here. Right? So the family that he cut out at Michael's field cut out, we called the Hamilton's Hamill to bring it back to that note. Not them Hamptons some British Hamilton's that don't have a rap musical written about.
Speaker 2:And what was the other guy? What's that guy called? Who? The, the Tory people.[inaudible]. But anyway, it probably,
Speaker 4:But yeah, it's their family because, yeah. Sorry. I have to cut out that wind sound
Speaker 2:Because the Hamilton's, so this is here at Gale Hamilton.
Speaker 4:Do you know what? I wouldn't put it past Neil Hammonton to be related to this Hamilton because Neil had the Hamiltons the juke Hamilton family were Tories. So they were cut out. So they like legally like a tested this will. They were like, hang on a second. Why has all our inheritance gone to this guy? The only is up for like at least three murders by now, like what's going on? So the house floor it's totally, but didn't totally, he won by like four votes Mo or one by like four votes in the house of Lords to keep the inheritance. But at the time it came down to the queen or someone who was a Tori. So, uh, Charlie Moe knew that he was like. He was going to lose the money. So he challenged, uh, the Duke of Hamilton to a Juul. Another true, of course he did. He did. Right. But with his ineffectual knife, barely Mo realizes that he is going to lose everything. Like there's no way the queen is going to side on his or whoever the it is, uh, is going to side on his like, or whoever is just under the queen that makes those decisions because the queen is a Tori. This app's in no way, is this queen, um, yes, this is queen Anne. So there's absolutely no way that he's gonna, this is won't be overturned and he's not going to lose all this money. So he decides to challenge juke Hamilton to chew. So this is where Hamilton, the story takes a turn, juke, Hamilton stabs, Charlie Mo in the deck
Speaker 2:To death and the deck to deck. Oh my God. That totally makes up for the other guy having a fine life. Oh, that's really bad. It's like a weird sort of like, does anyone have like a sort of like Trenton, you know, Hey. Yeah. Yeah. That's really funny. I wonder if there's a word for Dick stabbing. I wonder if there's like a, you know, there were a philanderer and the Bounder and a murderer and a Dick stabber. I wonder if that goes in, like
Speaker 4:Was stabbed in the groin, but I think that's the polite way of saying Dick, right? That's the same thing.
Speaker 2:Was it an accident? Was he aiming for his day? 17th century?
Speaker 4:Hard to tell, but, but then so except it doesn't end well for our hero, Lord Hamilton juke. I want to keep calling our play handler juke Hamilton though, because he's, double-crossed by Charney. Moe's secondhand man, which is a guy called McCarthy who stabs him in the legs or somewhere and in the heart,
Speaker 2:Wait the witness in the legs. And he bleeds to death. I feel like that's just not, not on right now, but that all aiming for the DIC region.[inaudible] for the day, my legs fine. That's weird. Maybe they were all at a dinner party actually, and everyone just kept dropping their knives and it was more embarrassing to tell the real story. And they were like, it was a[inaudible] would you pass your test? Yeah, that's it. That's it
Speaker 4:Anyway. Back to, um, so that's what happened to him and then back to add,
Speaker 2:Oh yes, yes. Where we started off. So, well,
Speaker 4:Quit the stage. I have to do the merge route. No, that's joking. And did quit the stage for a little while, until after the murder trial. Cause she was like her horrified by what had happened. And then she didn't last too much longer. To be honest, I said to him, as long as she lasted, like another 10 years she came back, um, she, she acted until a bit 1705, um, remained apparently a Virgin. There were rumors that she was like the playwright William Congreves concretes a mistress, but like, Oh no one can ever like say if that was cheerful, they were upset. Married, never had any babies.
Speaker 2:So anyway, um, when did she, when did she die? Well, she, Oh God. Oh, she died in, I
Speaker 5:Do, because you said it earlier and I wrote it down. She died in 1707.
Speaker 4:No, I was completely wrong at the beginning, you know?
Speaker 5:No. Yeah. You were complete wrong. It was like 17, 14. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yes. It's 1748. Eh, because the only time that she, so she, she, she was a singer by the way, she was an opera singer in that way that like opera singers and actresses. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my connection to the opera. So John Eccles, who was like the court composer to Quinan wrote are these really famous set of like mad songs that they released. Um, the year after the court case where she sang about like all these like crazy themes and like emotions and stuff. And one of them was Dick stubbing come out. Cause he hadn't been Dick stabbed at that point. He wasn't sick stabbed Kathy until like 75.
Speaker 5:See what was happening to Dick stab. Yeah.
Speaker 4:No, not quite. So one of his most famous or most famous songs was the thing was called I burn, which was taken from Don coyote. Anyway, she went on, she was, uh, she retired in 1705 really early. Uh, they say she retired because like this like up and coming like actress called an Oldfield came and started to become more popular than her. Um, but I think she was probably traumatized by all the that happened to her in her life. Um, abandoned by her parents, like made to work as a child, as a child star. And then in your, she was only 17 lads when the murder happened. Like that's pretty good. That, that whole thing. And then she became really famous for that. And then people came to see her because not only was she a Virgin, she was a Virgin that people got murdered over. Do you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 5:A lot of pressure. It's like Brittany, Brittany, Brittany, Brittany. Um, yeah.
Speaker 4:So then anyway, so John Nicholas wrote for her, but she did appear in like lots of other operas by people I've never heard of the Richmond Erez that big opera hit and the judgment of Paris, another big oval that was John Eccles, but another big it, um, and then she retired in 79 and the only time she came out of retirement, which is kind of sweet was for her dad's benefit night. Um, her adopted, yeah, your motto, um, Betterton, because he had squandered, not squandered. He had speculated or their money away and she
Speaker 5:I'm going to say that about money speculate. So she came out of your time.
Speaker 4:She came out of retirement to, uh, like Phillip his coffers and then no one ever heard of better again. But the problem with on is most of the information on, on is through Lord what's his name and bloody
Speaker 5:Thingy and his nose. No one
Speaker 4:Other than this lady in America and Utah has ever really written a better. Hmm.
Speaker 5:What was that lady's name again? Uh, Oh yeah, really cool. She must be, and this lady must be in her late seventies. Now she wrote this in 65, 1961. The way she got the information from, well, let's be honest. It is completely footnoted. I just ignored all the footnotes because I'm that person. And that's not what we're here for. We're here for no, uh, Julie and farrier. You trusted. Thank you, Juliet. Oh yeah, yeah. Juliane. Oh, is it Juliane? It's not Julie. And is it hyphenated? I didn't write it down.[inaudible] I don't think so. Thank you Judy. Thank you Judy. Now, Judy Julian.[inaudible] and she's a woman. She's done something nice, like actually written about, we love her. We love her. We love Julian farrier. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so that's where most of that information. Wow. She wrote lots of more. Yeah. So Charlie Moe got his comeuppance. Did Charlie Moe definitely got his comeuppance being stabbed in the Dick. Oh my God. He's probably more famous for murdering a really famous person, but like, or helping to merger similar story for the next one. Um, about not similar stabbing, a similar as in it's. No, not unfortunately, not about Dick stabbing, actually. I'll do some more research. Maybe there's a bit of Dick stabbing. Um, but it's also about how a woman was perceived at the time and how that's just because the narrative around her wasn't, you know, it was constructed by other people, mostly boys. So yeah, that's very, very interesting. Well done. Thank you. Well done. A stout Bravo heads up that's pretty narrow is the cute thing. Your knickers, just so you know. Yeah. Don't talk to me. That's weird. You're my sister weird name. Oh God, no, it's going so well. I don't even know somebody that Dick names now. Yes. You're the Kaiser San Jose of this situation. Anyway, there you go. That's my story lads. And because of the internet, um, that took a size nine hours and I slightly lost my will to live. So if you liked the story, please review us on iTunes, please, please, please star review us and say nice things and say also if I could put a request in, cause I may as well, um, do passwords. Cause I think that's how it works, do passwords. And if you like us and you like other podcasts like us do that too. Let's do that again. Okay. You know, when they, like, if you like this with this one, if you like, blah blah showed us out. Yes. But basically if you like shares with all your friends, DMS on Instagram, if you have any people that you'd like us to really dive into, what's our Instagram Bluffs. What's what's our Twitter. Oh, Bluffs. Cause I accidentally set up an opera blouse on Twitter and then couldn't work it. And then did we steal somebody whose name? I just, and then when I posted first and it was open Bluffs and I was like, Oh, pice, what's this open just one post. And didn't realize, so now we're old Bluffs, even though we actually do also control opera Bluffs on Twitter. That's embarrassing. Okay. So that was very confusing. So the Instagram is opera Bluffs and the Twitter is old. Plus maybe it will be opera email. If people want to ask questions about what you do as an opera. Oh yes. Okay. Our email is what is our email opera bluffs@gmail.com hit us up. Um, again, if you don't, if you hit us up, by the way with gesture and you haven't five star reviewed us, I will get like, I did a need for someone to learn how to like find your IP address and like hunt you down and she'll do whatever. Yeah. Because she's a lawyer. And that's what I think that we should like, it's like this whole part. Let's stop threatening people that are listening to us when you can do like a beep when someone curses, can we just do that for like that entire segment there and then just cut to the end. Woo. I'm guessing the feeling you don't want to take all our legal fights on me. I can't like now we've, we've chosen you as our lawyer. Like where did you Diani we're actually getting more, more fascist. The opposite of Rudy, Giuliani. God, you are exactly like Rudy Giuliani. Not sweating her day, but we can make that happen yet. Now I'm gone. I'm gone. So it's good night for moody. Thank you. Good night for me. And it's good night from me, Catherine.
Speaker 3:[inaudible][inaudible].