Eimear tells the other Bluffs the tale of composer Carlo Gesualdo and how nothing will stand in the way of his madrigaling.
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Eimear tells the other Bluffs the tale of composer Carlo Gesualdo and how nothing will stand in the way of his madrigaling.
If you would like to support us please copy and paste the link below: https://www.patreon.com/operabluffs
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1cyMUXduglZlcOt7X6Dr7d
https://www.instagram.com/operabluffs/
https://twitter.com/OBluffs
So I had the internet guy ranger yesterday to fix the internet. And he was like, Oh, Oh, now I know what's been happening on the street. And he was like, yeah, the internet and the whole streets being completely screwed up because, and then he was like, Oh, wires are pulled out out of your box. And I caught the kittens a couple of weeks ago, swinging off the wires at the front. There turns out they pulled out all the internet cables banned. It managed to take down the entire streets, internet. It's like a super villain
Speaker 2:Or like you get sued for that meeting. I was actually just about to say, I can cut that. Cut that of all the things, right. We're we keep talking about getting sued by like Tom cruise or whoever. I don't think we've ever actually said Tom cruise, but anyway, being sued by famous people would just so unlikely, but you know what is possible? Your neighbors tell it to you because Oh, okay. Well then we can't. We can't. Oh, no, I thought that was a good story. Terrible. I know it is a good story. I know. I hate worrying about this stuff. I'm willing to have you sued because if we get sued, did you hear who's going to get sued? No. So this is a bit political, so, you know, but I think it's fine. Cause we had interaction on Wednesday and I think, um, I think the political landscape in the America is about to change quite a lot. Hopefully. So, um, Sidney Powell, um, the Trump lawyer who was talking about the dominion voting machines, you know, I don't know how much it's coming over to the UK, but that there was this whole theory that the, and the, the reason why lots of people are protesting the legitimacy of the election is because they were blaming the dominion voting machines that were apparently created for Hugo Chavez to rig his own elections in Venezuela. Um, they, they were saying that the, these machines, you could add the flip of a switch. You could change all the votes to like, you know, Democrat votes instead of Republican they're suing. Don't you hand tick? Well, no, no, no. She's talking about electronic ticket on a piece of paper. Yeah. Okay. I think it's after they've been, I dunno what she, because I don't vote here, but, um, uh, so anyway, dominion, obviously their voting machines, right? That's their business and they can't stand for being called. Not very good at that. So they're suing Sidney Powell herself for 1.3 billion is going to get fun. Anyway, we'll see what happens with that. But I thought that was really excellent. Yeah. There were repercussions of just talking crap about people and the professional job. That's probably
Speaker 1:What's going to happen to me and my street, but, uh,
Speaker 2:You'd be sued for 1.3. Somebody couldn't download an episode. If I got news for you or something, I would, I would
Speaker 1:Like, come on. Why is it taking so long? Come here. What's that new Twitter? They're on
Speaker 3:Parlor. Are you on it? Have you been on it? I've been on it. No, but I follow, like, I think there's a Twitter account code parlor, hot takes or something. So I just get like really crazy highlights. Um, the cream of the crop, you know, the cream of the crop off. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. Uh, it's pretty funny. Anyway. It's like, is anyone surprised at what's happened?
Speaker 1:Nope. No, I know that's the thing actually. No, sorry. Before the last four years, if at any of the time people had just joined the Capitol building, I'd be like, Whoa, where's actually, I might say like, yeah, probably. Yeah. So that comment, yeah, it took this long to happen.
Speaker 3:Wow. Well, did you see the thing where the Simpson's like literally, do you know that whole thing about the Simpsons predicting?
Speaker 1:Can we hear there's something scary going on with the symptoms predict?
Speaker 3:Did they, like they had even a character or I actually think it was like groundskeeper Willie or something who like, is literally dressed the shaman guy. Q Anon shaman. Yeah. Um, with the tattoos, even, even the tattoos were pretty much the same. I don't like this guy. This is sounding all very conspiratorial this assignment, but it's how you apparently gain followers who maybe we need to just go down that route. All right. Phil body tats. We're doing well, but we could do better anyway. Okay. So, uh, I assume once again, the guys, every single time, welcome to opera Bluffs with me. Catherine Collins and Mimi of Collins. Woo. Okay guys, are you ready for your upper bluff of the week? Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm always nervous just in case. I don't know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Casey don't know. Yeah. So upper bluff this week is a question as always who would win in a fight. Should I love these ones? I love these ones. Okay. Ready? Patina or Mozart genie. Geez. Poor Mozart. He's never winning any of them too much time at the piano. He would have very strong fingers, but nothing else. I don't think it was a great tool.
Speaker 1:He was a chain smoker. I'm not sure his health. And he was in that car accident. And so maybe most ours might have an actual chance to be honest in this one. It depends if we're doing young Puccini or old opportunity, well, you may only have your own load trends. So if we're pitching them against other as 30 year olds Puccini to say shaming, we know he did a lot of exercise naughty
Speaker 3:Or he did, but you needed
Speaker 1:It. Wasn't exactly. You know, he wasn't exactly virginal either. Yeah. He was about Tom.
Speaker 3:Um, Oh. Oh exercise. Sorry. I didn't understand.
Speaker 1:Always comes down to smart. Mozart was down the gym Cine. Certainly wasn't
Speaker 3:Okay. Well we very quickly established anyway, but like patina is winning and that Mozart is, has never winning any celebrity death match
Speaker 1:Went against like Schubert. Definitely doesn't have a chance to get him.
Speaker 3:Okay. Easy. Right. Who would win in a rap battle? Puccini or
Speaker 1:Absolute Mozart. All
Speaker 3:Right. Finally, finally, Mozart coming out on top.
Speaker 1:She wouldn't know rapid smacked him in the face where that's all Mozart wrote in. I'd say in the marriage.[inaudible] yeah, absolutely. I nearly go as far to say Mozart invented the wrap.
Speaker 3:Okay. Well that's a hot, controversial. Yeah. Okay. So Mozart, M and M's opinion.
Speaker 1:I ever tried to sing Mozart. Recitatives I'm just saying. So I'm just saying that, uh, I think there's absolutely no chance Mozart all day. Oh, that's really cute. We finally found him finally found something other than being a musical prodigy. Yeah. That's great. Well, we should tell him.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Does that in any way, tie into your story
Speaker 1:Sort of yeah. From Mozart rap battles to, uh, who I'm about to talk about,
Speaker 3:Was this a, a request? No,
Speaker 1:No. It's not. Last week was a request. Um, and this week is not a request this week is something that I, um, you, so again, I always know something about it, but I nearly did in the first season and they got so caught up with the, uh, 18th century. But I forgot about any of the century and we're all
Speaker 3:We all have that with the 18th century, it's terribly
Speaker 1:Distracting. And I mean
Speaker 3:Then suddenly Bridget turns on and you can't concentrate. Everything's right.
Speaker 1:Like everybody knows why it was so ridiculous. Do you know what I mean? Why all these things happen. So anyway, we're going a bit further back actually further. This is the earliest that we've done. We are going back to the 16th century. Oh, I thought we're going to go for pagans now. That's not true. We went back to when were the lesbians? Oh, that was pretty far back. That was a rule. But yeah, that was pretty far back except 12th century. Yeah. So not that far back. Wait. And I had a St. Flan
Speaker 2:In, which was the seventh century.
Speaker 1:You got it wrong in the podcast and it's the seventh century.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Seventh century, not the 17th. And we don't all know that because he edited it out. Me correcting myself. Yes. That was very funny. So I thought the way, sorry.
Speaker 1:I know, but sometimes 17 seventh, you know,
Speaker 2:You know, people are listening to this. For fact music has story. It's very important. We get this stuff, right. It's not what we,
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tell you what, talking about his story. I am about to tell you his story and his I'm referring to his condo. She's just,
Speaker 2:Geez. That's so rude.
Speaker 1:I'm his, I'm referring to his Carlo. Just Waldo. Yes. Just to me, he was a composer. Wait, say Sam again. Carlos. Just Waldo. Yes. Now there's loads of podcasts about this guy. Actually. They probably have actual facts. Right. But I wasn't interested in them. So I'm going to tell you what I know about kind of just up. No, actually that's not true. There are some wicked then returning to the story actually. Oh, do you want to plug some for a sec and BBC radio three, do a composer of the week. And then he was there composed for the week and that is it. That's a brilliant podcast or it's a brilliant episode. It's an hour long. I think they've whacked all the episodes together. Cause it's like every week they have a snippet, but it was brilliant. And then, um, case notes and that's, I feel terrible case notes because then everyone listened to it and then nowhere have my bloody stories come from. Which isn't true. Actually. That's not true. This is the first one. But, um, but it's um, but if you Google like bold decomposers, this guy comes up pretty strong Nate. Right? So it's not a, it's not a deep dive you have to do to initially get this guy's name even though, obviously neither of you've heard of him. So what have you guys been doing? I think I've heard of him. I've been doing nothing. Well. Yeah. Um, well he's like, he was the, he obviously he wasn't an opera composer, but he was a composer of choral music. Like he was obsessed with, um, what are they called? Because they, my tats and stuff. But um, magicals, that's the word? I never sang anything.
Speaker 2:Oh, can you like, okay. So legitimate question. I have heard of madrigals a load of times. I've no idea what that means. If you say magicals, what am I supposed to imagine? Just acquire or like about for six virgins standing with nothing else to do on a Thursday evening, but go to church and sing together. Very, very, Oh, we need to cut that. And I have some magical, so that's a self burn. I mean, what, why are Madrigal?
Speaker 1:Isn't it funny? Cause when someone says magical is while you kind of know exactly what kind of signs you're going to get, but I don't know what the official term for magical is. Okay, here we go. This is Wikipedia and
Speaker 2:Magical is a secular vocal music composition of the Renaissance and early rock eras. The polyphonic magical is unaccompanied. So basically need it's unaccompanied voices. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And I think I can
Speaker 1:Imagine the type of thing that it is. It's not really Ernie music. In fact, at the end of this, there will be a magical stuck in the end. So if you stay tuned, there'll be a magical and everyone will know what the hell we're talking about. Right. So let me tell you about Carlos. Just Waldo. Right? He was born on the 8th of March, 1566. His parents were called forbids CEO and he was the Prince of somewhere. I can't remember now. Oh, the Prince of both, his parents were called for his parents. Did he have a mother? And his mom was a Jarana ma
Speaker 2:Geronimo. That is cool man.
Speaker 1:So Geronimo, just Waldo. Uh, and Fabrizio was the Prince of, Oh yeah, no Venosa wherever the. That is it's stands aside somewhere. It's when, um, he was the Prince of spinosa and it was when Italy was like, not Italy as we know it today. So it was like broken into roles, separate. They were all separate kingdoms. So at this time you had the cheese in the North and then you had the, just Waldos in the sacks for the role that flipping families and the muddy cheese were famously patrons of being, they were very famous patrons of the arts. Um, like I'm sure I learned that in school, like Minichi patrons, this is all around. Like, this is all in this ballpark, right? Uh, that's all what's happening in this era. God, I have no words. Sleds. I have no English today. I think it's because I've probably got Corona virus, which is why I've had to have a glass of wine. So you have to bear with me. It might be the last thing I ever do is tell you about this. This will be your legacy[inaudible] he was the second Prince born after Julio. So he was the spare. So he was basically the Prince Harry of the kingdom. And, but usually means you're like kind of the cool one though. Maybe not always. You see
Speaker 2:That Harry and Meghan have come off social media.
Speaker 1:I did see that was that because they were told to, but by the palace or because, because the world can't handle smart women of color saying smart things. It turns out no, they can't. No. Oh. I mean hopefully if this podcast is still around in like 20 years, people will look back on when the was that time. Yeah. That'd be lovely when everything was plaguing and races immerse. So Fabricio
Speaker 3:Was the spare Prince of,
Speaker 1:He lasted for[inaudible] or the parents of Carlo that's who we're talking about. We're talking about Carlo. Okay. Carla, Carla was the spare Prince two and Julio. She real is Prince William Carlo is Prince Harry, right? Okay. So in 1573, he was born in 1566 in 1573, Toronto ma dies and said, why are foul nausea? Don't care. To be honest, when you look back at this date, like this long ago, there's either nothing written or eight versions of it. Do you know what I mean? There's a bit of that good that goes to this. But anyway, his mom dies that I know, and he was seven and he gets sent off to learn with the Jesuits to become a priest. Right. Okay. Uh, yeah, I guess that's what you do with the spare one. Right? So, but also his family had major, major connections to the church. So his mom, so Geronimo was the niece of Pope Pius, the fourth and his uncle was Carlo Borana Moe or whatever his name is because I can't read my I'm writing and who became Saint Charles Borana Mayo. And he was also, he was a failed like PayPal candidate and he was the arch Bishop of Rome. So it was him. It was him. It was his uncle, Charlie Ricardo who said, Oh, he needs to go to this college and become a priest. Okay.
Speaker 3:Hey, wait. He was you're the spare while you're
Speaker 1:So, Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm the spare girl. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:Nibs despair. And also you're the barrel. So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Either as the spare you become a priest or a podcaster. Yeah. Opera singer.
Speaker 1:I wonder how many opera singers are spares. That's funny. We should do a pool. We should do a pool. Are you a spare people?
Speaker 3:If you're the second born and you're an opera singer, please write into us because we want to feel less than it actually funny if there were wrote in about that.
Speaker 1:Okay. Right. So anyway, so he goes off to learn to be a priest. Right. But apparently in the 16th century, when you're in your Jesuit training and you're a child, you get, um, a part of the training, um, to make you devote and whatever it is, um, daily beatings. Great. Yeah. Every day apparently makes you just let my childhood. Yeah,
Speaker 3:No, Joe King, when I was a child training to be a child.
Speaker 1:Okay. That's funny
Speaker 3:From last week's episode that when you guys were seven, you were training to be singing mermaids. So
Speaker 1:Smack that's already old Carlo is becoming a priest and getting priesthood. And I actually, to be honest, it's super suits him. He's loving all parts of this. Maybe even the daily bit more about car note. So he, um, he might understand a bit more about Carlo in a second, but so Carla was loving being a Jesuit. He gets all his education and he also starts to learn musical instruments. So he starts to learn the Lou tunnel, whatever the house. And he really, really takes to it. And as a Prince, he wouldn't have been allowed to learn that kind of nonsense. He would have been hunting and womanizing princess stuff. So, um, he, uh, so he starts like obsessively learning music and writing music for singers and 1585. He publishes his first book of motets. Um, old technique is just another word for bloody magical in a way it's just another thing, singing music. So that's, everything is going really good. He's like solutely obsessive about the church and really obsessive to the point where people think he's a bit weird about music, right? So he's that guy. He's the music guy. Oh my gosh. Like everybody else at the Royal Academy of music. Sorry, sorry. You know them, but in 1685, 1585. Oh, I love this. Anybody that's following this for genuine music knowledge. I've done two things wrong here because I didn't look down. When I told you the name of his brother, I called him Julio. His name is Luigi. That other Italian name. I apologize. I could pretend it was Julio. And then no one would know. And so in 1585, 1585, the Weegee just Wildo dies. The brother dies. Okay. The brother. Yeah. So Pearl Carlo is ripped at a Jesuit college faster than you can say dies. And he loved it. It, yeah. And it's suddenly, so he's in like he's in Rome and he suddenly ripped back at it. Like there were Naples. So back to Naples at age 19 and is like, before he's even past the palace walls has like already had his marriage manged. He has to go into labor training. Yeah. So his Mary's is arranged to a girl called Donna Maria devils. So Donna Maria Douglas, who is his dad's sister's daughter. So his first Stefania, so she is four years older than him. So she's 23 ancient ancient. And she's twice widowed, Whoa. At 23, 23 twice. But it was the first guy died from having officially on his death certificate from having too much sex. I'm sure it was said more flat then apparently the second husband had another, the husbands have names, by the way, I couldn't find them. Um, so she was married off to the first husband at 15 and managed to sex him to death. And then the second husband, uh, after she had two kids by him, um, he had a heart attack while having too much sex there. The official reasons where he does is she doing, she's doing it wrong. They're doing it wrong. She was fine. She survived, I guess. So within months within like, I think it's four months after the death of her second husband. Um, she is marrying just Waldo Carter just too. So that's fine to be honest. But Carlo is like, this is awkward because I really probably don't like women very much and really love music. I just love music. Is he missing his beatings now? Well, I'm not necessarily sure. I'll be honest if he's ever stopped having beatings. Yeah. So at this point he he's employees, people that specifically to beat him three times a day. So that's an official job title. And later on in his life, I think this is when it starts, but it could have been earlier. He has one guy specifically beat him up because he suffered very badly from constipation and he has literally the beaten out of him. I mean, have you ever been there?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I'm
Speaker 1:Not sure it's quite a hobby if you wonder. Right. Because that is quite funny. Um, but I wonder if particular daily beating as a kid, if someone had damaged his leg, intestines is something that he had to get.
Speaker 3:That's your gut. You're going way too deep there. Way too deep. Okay.
Speaker 1:Anyway, he literally had someone beat the out of him on a daily basis. So there you go and do with that. What you put,
Speaker 3:How you put that on your CV should features,
Speaker 1:Would you want that job? Royal beater. Yeah. So anyway, uh, he very quickly got the job done and they reproduced and had a son called Emanuele and then Carla was thrilled and off and never really spoke to Maria. Again, it didn't really have anything to do with it. Didn't care about her. Okay. So Maria gets but said, yeah. Is a bit sad. Right. But he was so busy writing his magicals like literally he was openly using hundreds of these. Yeah. But Maria gets Maria as well is like, she's kind of like Kim Kardashian, right? Like she is most famous girl woman in this place. She's apparently like ridiculously beautiful and very like charismatic and very smart and is at every social event. Whereas Carlo really hates social events. So they really don't have anything in common. And he's so busy obsessively writing his music that she's doing all this alone and whatever. So very quickly, she kind of picks up a little bit of a thing, a bit of a dalliance with a guy called forbid CEO. But, um, for[inaudible] the joke of Indira. So she begins an affair with Fabricio and to be honest, that's going great guns. It actually lasts a couple of years. Yeah. She's proper in love with him. He is also like an add-on. So, Oh, they are the most beautiful people in this region and they are cupping off of each other, but it was a pretty well known secret that this was happening. But the only person who didn't know about it was Carlo
Speaker 3:Really, did he really not know? Was it one of those things where it's like, they produced an air? I wonder
Speaker 1:Just didn't mind because he wasn't interested. So yeah. He was like, that's fine. I don't care what she's up to and doing whatever. So Carlos uncle Julio is like, Oh, he hears about Maria's affair with Fabrizio. And he's like, Oh, well then she's a bit easy. Obviously I'll give that a towel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, just have a go put my[inaudible]
Speaker 1:Get off me. You dirty old man and not a chance. Right. So she's having none of it. And he's so enraged that he was turned down, that he goes to Carlo and it's like, your wife's dirty. Like you need to do something about this. Everyone is laughing at you and whatever. So Carlos, I go bulls fine.
Speaker 3:Now I just want to sit by my magical, I didn't care. But now I
Speaker 1:I'm forced. Now I'm forced to care. Right. So Carlo comes up with a plan, right. Okay. To like, to, to sort the situation.
Speaker 3:So he kind of
Speaker 1:Tells everybody in the palace that he's leaving to go away on a hunting trip. He leaves. So he leaves the palace
Speaker 3:Before leaving the palace. However,
Speaker 1:He changes all the Luxe. So that's a crucial bit of information because obviously they sleep in separate wings because posh after coffee, people don't ever, I need to know this from the crown. Doesn't seem to sleep in the same room.
Speaker 3:You sleep in the same room. Geez. How embarrassing anyway, what are you uncouth? So
Speaker 1:Obviously they think Carlos gone off, Maria goes to bed and later is joined by Fabrizio. So that's fine. So they're doing their thing in her room and then unannounced Carlo returns with like an Army's worth of armed men. Jeez storms the castle and storms into her wing. But she thinks she's locked the door, but he is tampered or changed all the locks or whatever. And so burse opened the door and I witnessed the say he shot Fabrizio dead and then went over and slit his throat now.
Speaker 3:And this is just a real life story, not an opera.
Speaker 1:This isn't fictional you.
Speaker 2:Must've been really angry about not being able to write his matter. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I forgot to tell you this, but Maria was pregnant and the paternity of the baby. So the baby was a goner. There was also, so, you know what I was saying, there's, there are different reports on all these things. And the, there was another report that said the baby was in the room, but I only read that once. And I'm not sure if that's true, but apparently he stabbed the baby as well, or he killed the babysitter, but she saw[inaudible] and then he arrived. So he had the arm guards, I suppose, in case it went wrong and he walked back out and everyone is like, Holy. And he's like, it. They're not dead. And he went back in and he massacred them, completely mastered them. She had hundreds of staff wins. He and so did he, he was pinned to the floor boards and where he was lying. The floorboards were completely destroyed below him. He'd been stabbed so many times. Oh my gosh. Harlow lost his. Right. Yeah. So that was fine. And all was forgiven because obviously CarNow like was the husband. And he had to do that because, um, she had ran to the woman and of course,
Speaker 3:Sure, no, no, Jory the world could convene.
Speaker 1:He was only two. And what a good husband would have done when you find your wife in bed with someone else. So I'm really cleared in all courts. Uh, and he went on his Merry way. He also cut down all the trees that surrounded the castle so that he could tell if any of her family came for him. And I mean, this seems like fair enough.
Speaker 3:And then went on his Merry way. And then he was thrilled
Speaker 1:With themselves because he had an air and no wife. So we could just spend all this time, hold on.
Speaker 3:And where was the air? Where did the air come from? He already had an, a, she don't even have the baby before. Sorry. They already had kids.
Speaker 1:I had one kid, she had two, it didn't happen to them. Um, and so, uh, he went on his bed. He went off right in the magicals and life was great for all Cardo, therefore, while he was having a great time. So it literally was like
Speaker 2:Magical writing, magical writing, magical writing, beating, beating, beating, magical writing, frantic murder, his wife and her boyfriend and their child. And then back to the magicals he's like, well, this is a Sunday afternoon. I better do this quickly. Get this out way, cut down some trees and get back on with my magical workaholic. Yeah. It's a very generous word for that.
Speaker 1:It summed up in a nutshell. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow. He's committed. I mean, you've got to give that to him right. Committed to his magical. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So Carlos, um, that's super great. I mean, in society, like lots of the gossip, because there were lots of eyewitnesses, so there was lots of this going around in the gossip grounds. People were pretty horrified, even though he was found, not guilty in court of law because obviously he was entitled to do it because he owned his wife. Um, and she was cheating on him. So fair game. The locals were like, him. He's nuts that you could have divorced her and embarrassed her and made sure she could never marry again. Or, you know what I mean, her place in society. At that point, he could have divorced her, which would have more certified her and her family. You know what I mean? That would have been there when she was pregnant. That would have be,
Speaker 2:But like you're saying he could have divorced her, but like he weren't you saying his uncle was the Pope or certain things. So her and so they're Catholic. You couldn't divorce him.
Speaker 1:No, but I think in certain circumstances you could I'm actually, no one could even divorce in all, all of the documents I've read were like they could have divorced and in fact divorce comes up again for a Carlo. So I think there was some sort of, it comes up again. So that's not the end of the story and ecclesiastical court. I think there was a, I don't think it was divorced. I think it was an annulment probably now being thankful.
Speaker 2:Well, what about[inaudible]
Speaker 1:Except you you're like, and then what act is that? What year was that? Um, particularly written. Oh yeah. Come on. So he murdered his wife, he thought like, yeah,
Speaker 2:Wait a little bit, Richie, man. You're normally the one with the questions, to be honest. Anyway. So what happens next?
Speaker 1:Okay. So Carter murders, his wife and he's found not guilty and he's thrilled. And he gets to go back to writing his magicals without any interruptions. And he is a sun and air. So he's done his Prince Lee, Judy thrilled. So he's in no rush to remarry and, and he devoted his time to just music until 1593. When a contract is drawn up between CarNow and a girl called Leonora de desk day, who is the niece of the juke of Ferrara. Right? So Carlo is frigging thrilled not to get remarried. He's thrilled because Ferrara is the center of everything, musical. Oh cool. Now everybody knows he really savagely murdered his first wife, Fred. So, so everyone's thrilled about this marriage except Leonora. Yes. I'm thrilled. They're power thrilled, not particularly thrilled that Leonora has to suffer this fate. Can you imagine? So in 15, at 94,
Speaker 3:The key was found not guilty
Speaker 1:In 1594 Leonora and Carlo Mary. Oh yes. And then, because he's so excited about, you know, that he's a bit of a recluse. He never leaves his castle, but he's so excited by the music scene in Ferrara and like writing for voices up there and whatever, but they actually live there for two years. And for those two years, they have nothing in common particularly, but they managed to, um, produce a child and he manages to like write a shitload of music. Everyone's happy. Once again, once he's produced the child, he kind of ignores her. Everything is totally fine. The baby is called[inaudible].
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 1:Called alpha. Xeno is because Leonora, his brother is called Alfonzo rather is the, he is the heir to Ferrara. So he's the first Alfonzo. Okay. So it's not like that it's Alfonzo.
Speaker 3:Oh my God. This has become so game of Thrones
Speaker 1:That old AF funds, you know, um, may have been Alfonso's child that they might have been getting it on a little bit, but I couldn't find it. They both blonde. I heard that on one source, the BBC and never again. So, so according to the BBC, they were absolutely getting it on. The BBC said that it was rude when I get a suit by the BBC this week is that who's going to Sue isn't there.
Speaker 3:We can't take on the BBC. They're losing popularity. The BBC will be delighted. They love the publicity.
Speaker 1:So yeah. So the, according to the BBC, um, Alfonzo and Leonora were banging and getting it on doing the dirty, uh, which is really more in my Mo
Speaker 3:No in garden mowing God is IC. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Substantiated. And I would never, ever give out information that I didn't, I couldn't back up a hundred percent,
Speaker 3:Not twice a week
Speaker 1:To spread the name, historical gossip.
Speaker 3:So anyway, find Xeno.
Speaker 1:I it's born. And to be honest, CarNow is indifferent to his wife, but absolutely thrilled with her son, his first son, Emmanuel LA, I was going to say, so obviously he's the air Emmanuel is the air, but he has never, I mean, at this point, I think he's still a kid, but, um, Emmanuella grows up to really not like his father. What, because he boots. Yeah. That would have been a thing.
Speaker 2:Put a spanner in the works. Wouldn't it feel relationship with your father
Speaker 1:Technically has nothing to do. And I'm not sure at what point he parts company with his dad, but maybe after the murder, her family took him. I'm not sure, but he's not about, and he also grew up hating his father. So very awkward. That's really awkward. Now he is still out of the throne and Carto is totally willing to, um, to honor that like, he's the heir, but Carla was totally enough with a, Fantino like, apparently he's really cute kid. Like he's cherub, like and gorgeous. And yeah. So, um, after two years, um, Carlo decides to go back to his kingdom and I'll, um, Leonora stays behind with her brother. Sure. She's delighted. But then she's staying with her brother and he's down in Naples. So she's in the, he's in his eyes. Uh, they're living apart and at that works for them because they have nothing in common. Um, but the juke alpha Carlo is writing to Alfonzo senior all the time saying, can you send my wife down? And, uh, the joke is always that, well, if you want to, you have to come and get her. I couldn't possibly send her on her own. You know, these are murderous poisonous times. So, um, Carlo is always finding a reason not to go. So she doesn't go for two years, but then, uh, funds have dies and she has no choice, but to go she's no protectors, no protector. So then she has to go and join, um, Carlo down and old[inaudible] in Naples. So off, she goes with Alfonzo Reno. And then that's when Carlo begins to lose his mind again. So he starts, he just didn't like being around like women, I suppose. So he's still doing his annual or his daily, like three beatings a day. And he's got his like staff that's their job is to beat him up. So that's what happening. But then he takes it upon himself to beat all Leonora up daily. Yeah. And he starts like, which is nearly worse. I think in those times is the publicly humiliate her an awful lot.
Speaker 2:This is just like Ramsey Bolton. Isn't it in game of Thrones to come back to go before
Speaker 1:I said Ramsey, it's very game of Thrones.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. But I guess that's because game of Thrones is based in, to be honest,
Speaker 1:I've never seen, you've never read it. I've read it. I have read all the books I've fed all the week. I love the books and yes, I would. What I remember of the books. It was very arousable buildOn. Yeah. I'm just not a good TV watcher guys. It's not my fault. No, that takes a lot of to watch the telly and to sit the third I'm busy. It's a good thing. Um, so, uh, she has to get answer. So this is when, like the cruelty really, really ramps up. Right. He also has, um, uh, mistresses that live in the castle. Oh wait. Oh, sorry.
Speaker 3:So surprised by that. I thought he was just some sort of like, I was actually nearly feeling sorry for him. It's like, it's just this guy. He doesn't even like women. Like if it was up to him, he'd have nothing to do with women. He just wants to be alone beating himself or having someone beat him and writing his music and women are being forced upon him because of his position. But in fact, he actually had mistresses. So he is interested in women.
Speaker 1:And well, what he's doing with his is, uh, Oh no, anybody's guests will know what to do.
Speaker 3:See bulletin then it's, I'm flipping the young one, the one, Oh my God. Jeffrey, Jeffrey,
Speaker 1:Jeffrey Jeffrey. Oh, that Jeffrey has dropped her off. He was about 11. Did he have mistresses?
Speaker 3:He did a lot in the, in the show. Spoiler alert. He does a lot of like beating of like prostitutes.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. Yeah. I wonder if, yeah. Very close, actually very close. That's terrifying. Um, so I don't know if he was sleeping with these women, but he, uh, yeah, they definitely lived in his castle. The Duke died in 1597. That's when Leonora has returned with Alfonzo. Oh, fun. See, you know who I'm assuming is called Alfonzo. Now that Alfonzo was dead. But um, now that his uncle's dead, but, or his dad who knows uncle father, um, but in 1600, uh, Fantino dies. Oh no, no. The Cero cherub dies and Carlo is beside himself. This is the breaking point for Cardo. This is the breaking point for Carlos. So bad for Leonora that her family are desperate for her to divorce him. This is what I mean, the divorce thing came up again. They're really worried about her safety and she keeps refusing instead. Leonora takes him to court and accuses his two mistresses of witchcraft. Wait. No. So what, who are the women that are in his castle? When did he get them? No idea. How many are there too many of them too, because there are two in the court case. Other than that, I think there's like those kinds of like, there's just no, no one cared Kathy. They were women. And they were like study women. So they have even less God. Why would anyone write anything like a name? So then she uses the myth of witchcraft in the trial. She accuses them of witch craft. So there's a trial, right. She's just trying to get her own back at him. I mean, it's a pretty, now that we're all like 20th century, 21st century feminists, it's a bit to stomach that she did it by accusing his mistresses. He probably didn't their women. Yeah. Probably weren't treated brilliantly and probably didn't have much choice in it. Oh, at this point he has ascended to, um, the top of the rank. So he's the Prince of wherever the hell he lives. Um, and um, so he is even more untouchable under torture. The two women confess to witchcraft
Speaker 3:Torture is terribly effective for getting confessions. And they're not very good confessions, but it does get good. Gets the job done. I mean, we're not looking for the truth here. We're looking down,
Speaker 1:But here's a quote from one of the, from one of the witches in the trial, it was said the track record contains the phrase soaked with the seed of them both. So basically apparently they would shove bread up their vaginas, serve it to him in a sauce that was part of the witching there.
Speaker 3:My eyes have just like dissolved into my brain or something.
Speaker 1:I understand. Yeah. They made bread sauce for him. Yes. From their private, from their private parts. I mean, that sounds completely likely, but that's what they were up to. I mean, I don't know what you guys are up to in the bedroom, but, uh, with cheap bread cutting that that's definitely not what I'm up to, but instead of being burnt or hung, which was like the normal thing for witches, their punishment was to be locked in the castle forever with Carlo, just Waldo this blue beard, isn't it. So this is another opera. Any of it's an old story. So being learned and locked in rooms forever. So yeah, so that happened to the witches and they got locked in. So not exactly what Leonor, I think probably had a mind. I know
Speaker 3:I'm like good job, Leonardo
Speaker 1:Things got even worse. Domestically speaking at this point though, like, um, old Carla was still throwing magicals every left right. And center. And the worst part about it is he was really good. And he was like, way, way ahead of his time. Like some of the things
Speaker 3:I hate what he does with his wives, but his magicals are tip-top.
Speaker 1:So one of the things he was writing, um, people that are like modern, like he shouldn't have, like, he shouldn't have even known how to write those sort of like core progressions or whatever. I'm not instrumentally enough to give a crap about that.
Speaker 3:It will be a tough call to make wouldn't it, if you were a singer in those times and being like, this guy wants me to think it's magical now I've heard
Speaker 1:Private
Speaker 3:Life is not too good. It's a little lumpy.
Speaker 1:I'm a singer and it's a paid job. So, where do I sign up? I can, Oh, bread in my, okay. I can do that. And we've all
Speaker 2:Seen modern production.[inaudible]
Speaker 1:Sorry. Cut. That.
Speaker 2:I don't want to give people ideas. Sorry. And
Speaker 1:So anyway, so Alfonso Alphonse, Xeno dies. Right. And he's heartbroken, but that's not the end of his, like his airness what's that like he has an air. What's that called? He still has a, his line. Gosh, I can't believe I thought that because I'm so like I was stock our stocks. Cool. Whatever I'll use it. Even with the, our stocks. Oh no. I see. I think I've got Corona. That's what's happening. Right. So yeah.
Speaker 2:I new symptom of coronavirus
Speaker 1:There's brain fade, honestly, as we've
Speaker 2:Been reading about this for months, but I think it probably is. I think it probably is, but also the social fallout from it, from COVID and people not interacting so much, you know, in person like a hundred percent. I actually agree with that. Like I do. I think I've noticed it myself. I can't, I'm finding it hard to find words and stuff and, and it is meant to be a symptom isn't it? People were saying,
Speaker 1:Well, thanks, Kathy. That's like the cutest thing you've ever done, standing up safe and mentally affected by a virus.
Speaker 2:It probably is actually the nicest thing I've ever done. So terribly nice as a person. Anyway, Knight in shining armor green young
Speaker 1:Anyway, after Alphonse Hino dies. And after the, which court case trial thing, Cardo basically lucks himself up with the witches and refuses to do anything. He becomes even more antisocial. So like when his uncle becomes, um, Saint Charles or whatever, his name is, Saint charity, whatever, he doesn't even go. He makes an excuse that he's sick or he's got something on her. He didn't get beaten up.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm beating my witches that night meeting my witches. I've got a dinner, bread sauce. I need to go and attend.
Speaker 1:So he, he really is. He becomes this like kind of fictional recluse figure in the scary bastard. He kills women and it doesn't leave his castle. Uh, and he's locked in there with his witches horrendous. So I think that they're quite grateful that he becomes a bit of a recluse. I'm not really sure. And again, because she's a woman who cares what happens to Leonora, but apparently he was really paranoid that she was trying to poison him. I know. Yeah. I wonder if she got onto her old friend, Julia to fan, except that she's a bit early. It's terrifying. I know. But only early, like surely by like 20 years, which is 10 to 20 years. So it's just, after all this goes down, then actually I'm Julia's mom starts like popping her head up around Naples and going. Yep. So he had still has a son, so he knows he doesn't really give a about Leonora, whatever the she's up to. She's not having affairs because she's too afraid. Obviously he's got his witches and he's got a son somewhere who's syring other humans with his fancy wife because he married quite well. Can remember to who didn't ride down don't care. The son's happily married has wants nothing to do with his dad. It's kind of questionable whether a Manuel a would have actually accepted the position of Prince of wherever, because he was so horrible.
Speaker 3:Why didn't he, why wasn't he given it?
Speaker 1:Because he died in a horse riding accident three weeks before his dad died?
Speaker 3:No. Had he had, he'd had kids though at that point. So there was still a line.
Speaker 1:No, he didn't. He didn't have any kids or none that made it to adult church. No. So the lines stopped there. So Carlo died in 16, 13 of being beaten to death by the witches. Um, some say he got ill and he said the only way he felt any relief was to be beaten severely around the head. Um,
Speaker 2:So he literally was paying, he's still paying people to beat him.
Speaker 3:So if it wa if it weren't for all the, like other, I mean, he's clearly a villain because he, you know, like murdered his first wife and beats those women and all of this. But like, you know,
Speaker 1:Is his first wife, his second child and her lover.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. No, well, his second yet. Right. But like, he what's wrong with him. Yeah. But he's been being beaten since he was a kid. So yeah, probably quite a lot. Yeah, no. Yeah. Very quickly.
Speaker 1:It's weird. So that is the story of, CarNow just Waldo told really strangely, sorry. You know, when you plan out how you're going to tell stuff and then like ethnic is not how it comes out of your mouth. Is that just me?
Speaker 3:It's amazing what happened for the writers of game of Thrones as well. So
Speaker 1:That is really game's attorney though. Isn't it dark as man. Yes. But you know, what's more dark is that he still, like, his music is still being played today and kind of celebrated for its like ingenuity or whatever. But I feel it a bit like, are we not? Now I know back then it was kind of cool to kill your wife.
Speaker 3:It's not cool anymore.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? It was fine to have sex with children. Apparently at some point in Greek mythology, not cool anymore. Do we draw?
Speaker 3:We still bought,
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, the art from you can't judge the, Oh, you haven't
Speaker 3:Thrown out Greek philosophy. Yeah. You know, it's like, yeah. Anyway, he,
Speaker 2:We separate. Otherwise there's just, no humans are so fallible. We wouldn't have anything. We'd have to do a raise culture completely. And just start again all the time, not condoning the activities.
Speaker 3:I remember one time an so I studied philosophy and I remember having like an argument with not an argument like it is when you study philosophy, having arguments is just having a conversation. Like I remember like having a conversation with one of my classmates, um, where I talked about how Nietzsche was a misogynist, um, and Anna where we're like this guy in my class got really, really angry with me. Like about how could I say that about him? And like, sure. We're not, you know, his ideas were amazing. And I was like, I didn't say his ideas. Weren't amazing. Like, and in fact I enjoy discussing his ideas, but like as a person in his life, he, you know, he didn't like women, you know, uh, be able to separate those two things. One both can be true at the same time that he had an amazing ideas and that he was like, perhaps not a guy you'd like to hang out with now, you know,
Speaker 1:I'd love to hang out and have a field Cardo, Hey, just want to, we've been married to him. We can have a drink. I'm not coming back to your castle with the bread sauce. Um, yeah. So, yeah, so he was like, yeah. So he was real mover and shaker. Um, and everyone, and it was kind of weird that a Prince or someone of his standing would be producing, like would be into music that way. You know, like he wouldn't have people, but he had a printing press in his castle. Like it was, he, he ate, lived breeds and aided or whatever it is. What did they think was wrong with him? Was he like just a psychopath? Well, yeah, there is this a brilliant podcast on it. That's done much better than I've just done it by classic FM. It's called case notes. They do it on there and they have this psychologist or whatever on. And she is like, if we got this guy in today, he would be a psychopath, like, especially in the murder, it's one thing going in and like shooting the guy dead and, and shooting your wife or whatever. But it's another thing to go in, shoot him and then slit her throat is very dark. And then to go in and mutilate, the crap out of them is that's not just, you're not just seeking you're in a rage. Yeah. You've lost it. And, and it's that sort of flip that extreme flip. Yeah. And then the fact that he, apparently lots of people say through his music or whatever, that he was really remorseful, but then he treated like he publicly treated his second wife. So horrendously
Speaker 3:Yet at the very least you think you'd be embarrassed?
Speaker 1:Sounds like a sadist. Yeah. I think he was a lot of, do you know what I mean? Like, I think there was an awful lot going on an awful lot, going on Stravinsky
Speaker 3:Out and say, I think he was a Michelle misogyny.
Speaker 1:You can't say that people
Speaker 3:I'm just going to say, I'm going to put out that. I don't think he liked her very much. Stravinsky was obsessed with him. There's been quite a few composers who were really big fans of his. Yeah. But yeah, it's a pretty cool story. So I'm not glad that he did all those things cause it's pretty horrendous, but, it makes a great story for a photo. Disclaimer. We don't approve of the things that he did in case it seemed. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so I think at this juncture while I weirdly rub, I'm sorry, it's for my own new fan. You're multitasking right now overdue right now. So there you go guys. That's my story this week. Glad you enjoyed it. Glad I don't have to tell them that the story for a couple of weeks, quite frankly, because my brain, that was an awesome story. Emma, thank you so much. Please listen, rate, review, and subscribe. Tweet us at Oak Bluffs and Instagram us at opera bluff. And please follow us on facebook@operablasterpodcastandpleaseemailussuggestionsandcriticismsandlovelettersandeverythingatoperabluffsatgmail.com. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 4:[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible].