E102 | Innovation using Cinematic iPhone Footage with Jeff Wood Visuals

The guest on this episode is a great example of constantly innovating and moving with the times whilst continuing to create outstanding work. 

Jeff Wood is a wedding filmmaker who started capturing weddings back around 2008 and has worked with celebrity and luxury clients as well as being an influence for many UK wedding videographers over the past decade. 

But rather than just sticking with the status quo, Jeff has embraced the way technology has started to change the industry and has started using his iPhone to provide new opportunities to be creative. 

We discuss everything from keeping the name of his business and his choice of equipment open so he could do either photo or video. To sitting on private jets with celebrities, judging awards, monitoring the next generation of wedding filmmakers and what the future holds for wedding filmmakers.

If you are into filming, cinematography and technology then you will really enjoy listening to Jeff describing his processes and how you can use your phone as a high end cinema camera. 

This is a real glimpse into the future, but maybe we are already there. A great conversation, I really enjoyed this one. 

Check out Jeff’s work here: https://www.jeffwoodvisuals.com

Song of the episode from musicbed:

Piano Sonata No 14 in C sharp minor - Ignace Padereweski (Beethoven)

MB01QTWBYST86RH

On the How to Shoot Hybrid Podcast we talk about all things Photo, Video and Hybrid Shooting!

This is a place for photographers and videographers who want to build successful and sustainable business capturing weddings, live events, working with commercial clients or working on creative projects.

We discuss different topics around photography, filmmaking and business as well as interviewing guests in the photography, filmmaking and hybrid content creation industries.

To discover more about the podcast click this link: https://lnk.bio/howtoshoothybrid

Transcript

Here's what's coming up on this episode. You know, when I started to get more and more into this, the idea of shooting weddings, I didn't know whether I ought to do fully video or stills. No one really knows what the budget was for that particular wedding, but numbers, like $70 million, that kind of thing were bounded about.

Well, I think the industry is already changing in that, you know, people are going, people are ditching their videographers and going for content creators. You know, I see a situation where a lot of guests are arriving with back lit by a sun. You know, I'd be like, I could do a gimbal shot of that. Just flip it up and do a gimbal shot with a sun, like flicker in between them, and it just opened up all these opportunities.

The Apple log is just a joy, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's the first time we've enjoyed a log workflow. There's certain things that, you know, the, in particular, the, the Black Magic camera app is, that is more of a cinema camera than. The Sony A seven C two.[00:01:00] 

It's the how to Shoot hybrid podcast, discussing topics around photography, videography, content creation, and running a creative business. My name's Jules and on this episode, and I'm in a chat with Jeff from Jeff Wood Visuals, who was a massive inspiration to me when I came into the industry about 10 years ago.

Well, no, there wasn't many people. Don't hit, hit me with that straight away. There wasn't many people kind of doing, you know, 10 years ago there weren't that many people doing kind of modern, more modern style when every videography. So, you know, like I was just looking out there for whoever's doing stuff.

There's obviously loads of American things to watch and, and look at, but in terms of UK based, there wasn't that many people doing it. So, yeah, your name definitely was was in the mix for that. So, yeah, I'm really excited to talk to Jeff because not only is he one of the pioneers of wedding videography, like the more modern style in the uk but also because listening to him on other podcasts, and I know he is been doing [00:02:00] other things to kind of innovate with where the industry's going today.

So, hello, Jeff. Hello. How are you? Good, good. Thanks, mate. I don't, we've never met in person, but obviously I know who you are. You don't know who I am, but that's cool. So it's great to have you on the podcast. You sound like a decent northern lab, so you're That's, that's right. But I'm from wrong side at Pennines, I think, mate, I'm from wrong side of pennines.

That's, there's always, always, I lived in, she you in Cheshire. I lived in Sheffield for a while, so I'm you're all right. You know. You're all right then. Well, I prefer don't, don't tell anyone, but I actually preferred Sheffield to, to Manchester. But don't tell you're allowed to say that. I'll cut that bit out just in case anybody who knows you, listens to it,

go on there. So tell us a little bit about, about your kind of yourself and how you got into the industry, the wedding videography industry. Well, like, like we were [00:03:00] just saying a minute ago it's all about the toys. Yeah. So I I I, years and years ago I, I had a project in mind. There was a story developing, and it was a, a, a story personal to, to my family.

And it was like a massive, massive story. And it's, I wanted, I wanted to make a documentary. I had no experience whatsoever. I, I, I used a handy cam while scuba diving and I, I kind of like, took an interest in, in editing, you know, from, from, you know, playing with that. And and I, I just, I thought, right, if I'm gonna make this documentary, I needed to do it on a professional camera.

So I went out and bought a Sony ex one. Do you remember that? I, I don't personally, I never personally had one, but I, I, I can kind of picture the larger sized kind of would you class it as a profu? I dunno, would it be all, would it been more like, I mean, it wasn't one of those big TV ones, was it?

It [00:04:00] was kind of in the middle? No, it was, it was prosumer, the app shop movies on them. I think that didn't look very good. It was basically the fir, it was the first professional video camera to use solid statement. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, so that was, that was exciting. I thought that was the future. So I was like, right, I've gotta get one of these.

I, I, as it happened, I had one of those, you know, those when they used hi eight tapes. I had one, I had one of, I had one of those, but that was shit as well.

So, and it cost a fortune. So I thought, God, I need to justify, you know, spending all this money. Yeah. So I thought, I thought I, I need to, you know, make some money from the camera. So I looked into, uh, shooting some weddings. First thing I went, I went online and googled I ex one wedding. And it, I came across some pretty decent work by, there was some Russian guys, I can't remember what they were called, but they were shooting [00:05:00] through litus depth, the field adapter.

And, you know, it's, the whole thing looks like some kind of weapon from aliens when you've got all that on it. But it looked cool, you know, and I was like, oh, that's, that's, you know, that's, that's amazing. And Ray Roman was around at the time as well doing a completely different style like it just today, but, you know, it was different.

It was cool. And and then the, well around about the same time, the five D Mark two was coming out and I was massively interested in that as well. And I actually thought, I didn't know whether, you know, when I started to get more and more into this, the idea of shooting weddings, I didn't know whether right to do fully video or stills.

Yeah. So, you know, I bought the five D amount two and obviously when I, I shot a few weddings on both and the, you know, the five D amount two just looked, you know, so much nicer, obviously not as sharp. Not as much dynamic range. Yep. Not as much bit depth. So on paper, you [00:06:00] know, it should be terrible and it looked soft and it looked, you know, cartoony.

Yeah. But it looked beautiful, you know, so pretty soon I just sold the X one. I went full 5G mark twos Right. Much to the dismay of the industry. You know, everyone told me that there's no way I'm gonna be taken seriously. And it's, it's, it's just weird how much kind of backlash there is when you do something that appears to be different.

Unprofessional, right? Yeah. Yeah. It appears unprofessional. You know, turning up to a wedding to shoot, you know, cast your mind back to the first time it's happening. Turning up to a wedding to shoot video. On a small stills camera. Yeah. Well, people still, everyone's mind, people still today think you're a photographer if you're doing video on, on a, on a small camera.

Because, because they just don't get it. They expect you to be having this big camera and everything and, and they don't under, I mean, this is, this is like still happening today. And now how long of wedding Videographer's been shooting on DSRs and Mirrorless now? [00:07:00] I mean, it's like 16 years. Exactly.

There you go. Was it 2012, roughly? When is that? When five DMAC two come out around that? Two, two, 2008. Right. Early 2008. It might have even been late 2007. Wow. Because I started shooting in 2008 and I bought, bought one mid 2008, I think. Wow. And yeah, by the end of the year I'd sold the, the Sony and I was shooting purely on three five D mat twos and recording all my audio separately.

And yeah, it was. It was it was good times. I became, I became pretty successful pretty early on. Yep. And I mean, I was very lucky though because I just happened to be live three miles away from the, kind of the best poust, most expensive, most reputable wedding videographers in the country.

Right. And they, they just happened to be kind of [00:08:00] looking around on the internet for, you know, what all this DSLR things about, you know, they, they were pretty late onto the, you know, the bandwagon with the DSLRs. Yep. So they go, they Googled, you know, five D mat two weddings and found a whole load of my work and, and, and then went, oh my God, where is this guy?

And oh, he's in Ingham. It's like he's three miles away. So they, they gave me a ring and said and we had a meeting it was funny because we went into this Belgian bar, which is kind of like in a cellar on the ground, and it was like pretty dark in there. Yeah. And I took, I took my, took my five D mark two with a, a 1.2 50 millimeter.

Yeah. And when I, when I said, I said, oh, look around, you know, do you reckon you built a video in ear? And they were like, no, no chance. I was like, well, check, check this out. And they, they were like, whoa. That's unbelievable. Yeah. But anyway, long story short, we kind of built a friendship and did a deal where I, you know, I said, I'll, I'll teach you everything I know about [00:09:00] shooting on these cameras.

And in return, they taught me everything they know about getting great clients. Yeah. And they, you know, they'd, they threw some kind of like some jobs my way that they couldn't do, you know, they were like, oh, we've got this. Are you busy on such a date? We've got this job that we can't cover. You can have it if you want.

And then it turned out to be, you know, a billionaire,

billionaire wedding on the grounds of their own, you know, estate. You know, and it was like, oh my God. So, and then obviously work leads to work. Yeah. So, yeah, that's what got me into those circles. It was, it was just purely thanks to real vision. You know, I've heard those guy, I, I owe my, I've heard of them as well.

Yeah. A couple of people are, you know, other videographers I've, I've known that'll be, kind of have been doing it a while, you know, a while longer than, than kind of this new wave that's coming through. They, they, I've heard multiple people quote them [00:10:00] as like, been there. Yeah. Yeah. They're kind of, they're very private.

Right. Yeah. And that's the thing, you, you start googling 'cause people have mentioned it and then I've gone online trying to look for them and there isn't a lot out there on them. Yeah. You won't find any of their work. Yeah. Because all, all, I shouldn't say it all, all all their, all their clients are either oligarchs Yeah.

Or so they're not allowed to show it anyway. Royal Royalty or, you know, the, you know, they, when like, put it this way, the last time, not the last time, one of the last times I worked with Elvis guys, I ended up sitting on a private jet next to Katy Perry and show up and I was just like, this is the mind. Oh, sorry I lost that fault.

Course you can. Yeah. Go for it. So yeah, that's, that's, that's, you know, that's their world. Wow. You know, it's, it's so funny, whenever I'm, whenever I'm chatting to Mickey, you know, we'll be chatting about something and he'll just go. Oh yeah, I know him. And it [00:11:00] was like, yeah, of course you do. Yeah. You know, that's crazy.

So, yeah. So when, when was this then? How, how, how, you know, how far into you doing this? Did you, did you kind of cut your teeth on sort of like the standard weddings that, that we all do at the beginning? Or, or did you, was this fairly early on that you got these opportunities pretty early on? Yeah, I'd say within the first two years.

Wow. So I was, I think without those guys I'd still be, you know, I'd probably be just hitting the kind of like three or four grand mark now. Yeah. You know, but because of those guys I hit that, you know, within early on, yeah. 18 months. Yeah. Yeah. They, you know, they were saying, Jesus, you're charging 1200 quid.

And I'm like, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot, isn't it? And this is like, no, no, it's not thought. We're charging four grand. And I was like, I. What, so they said, yeah, you need to be at least three. And I was like, three.[00:12:00] 

So, yeah. You know, it's, it is like, you know how terrifying it is putting your prices up. Yeah, yeah. You know, I, I pretty much tripled my prices. So like, you know, as soon as I started getting bookings, I was like, oh my God, I can't believe it. I'm getting bookings at three grand. But, but because it's, it's within these circles where, and I think this is you know, I haven't kind of got this in my notes to talk about, but in terms of pricing, like your kind of insight into that might be quite useful because I think most people they, because you, you kind of go to the same weddings every week.

Especially like, you know, there's this like slow progression usually, and not, not for everybody, but it's a slow progression of like coming into the industry and then kinda like doing the same weddings and it's just slightly, you know, you get slightly better and you put your price up a bit and you get slightly better weddings and, and people spending more money.

But it's kind of a very slow progression and I think you don't, you don't, your mind's not really opened to like these people that live in a different world to what we do, where they've got like millions and billions of pounds and so to [00:13:00] them spend it, spending five grand, 10 grand, 20 grand on a wedding videographer or wedding photographer is nothing.

It's, you know, it's, it's not even the same as spending 500 quid on one for somebody who ain't got any brass, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, yeah. Tell, so how, how did you go absolutely. About that? Did you. Did you, did you kind of just, they told you you need to be charging at least this, and then from there you were just re you know, you just started to work with these clients and realized how much, you know, you're probably working with planners at this point as well, and you realized how much money's getting spent.

Yeah, no. Yeah. No, to be honest, I, I've froze at three grand for years. For years and years because I was just really happy with the clients I was getting. Yeah. And I was seeing my mates working for people that they didn't even meet, you know, and being stressed and having all these stories of like, coming back from a, an, a broad trip, you know, just all with PTSD, you know, and I just thought, you know what, you know what?

I'm gonna stick with my [00:14:00] clients. You know, you can keep your, you know, you might be getting 20 grand for that gig. Yeah. But four of you're are spending a week in Italy to get it. Yeah. And then, you know, the edit is crazy because, you know, some of these weddings are just mental and the. And their, you know, their, their clients expect them to shoot until sunrise.

It's pressure, you know? Yeah, yeah. You know, they, they'll be like, we've paid a million quid for this dj, and he, he start, he starts at set at three and ends at six. And you must capture that and just, I'm too old for that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, so, I, I liked, you know, I said it was, it's all about the toys, but, you know, obviously I got into the art as well and I liked being able to make, you know, more kind of like wedding films that weren't about the party and weren't about the wedding.

They were more about the travel and more about the people. And, and that's what I got into. Yeah. So I, I thought, I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying my career. I'm gonna keep it the same. Yep. So I stuck, stuck at three grand for A's [00:15:00] and A's and A's, and I've only just put it up, relatively recently. Yeah. But that helps you to get the, that clients that by keeping it, that practice, 'cause this is some, you know, a lot of people they talk about, especially if you listen to like American podcasts like that, you know, it's all about like luxury clients.

Luxury clients. And there's a lot of people talk about luxury, luxury weddings, luxury clients now. And it's kinda like, put your prices up. Put your prices up. But would you say then, 'cause this is what I feel that there is, like like you said, once you get to a certain point, you're working with certain clients, you don't get to necessarily meet you don't get to build up a, a rapport.

You don't really get to be part of that wedding. It's more like you are there, it's hired to do a job and you, you know, you, you, you've beasted basically like, like yeah. You, you know, like you should be, if you're, if you're kind of earning that sort of money and you, you got, you got the pressure to deliver.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's like a different job, you know. If, if you really, [00:16:00] if you really wanna go for those kind of gigs, then just give yourself, you know, a taste of like, doing it four times and then, and then look at, you know, whether you want to really spend, you know, per permanently make the change to that, that kind of gate.

'cause it, it gets old pretty quick. Right. I there's some other mates who kind of give me a, a foothold into another level, another tier where some people that I met while working for real vision based in Delhi they they liked what I was doing and got me on board for a billionaire wedding in in Florence.

And I did the edit. And they, they like the edit. So they got me on board for another billionaire wedding in, in India. Yep. And we're talking like, no one, no one really knows what the budget was for that particular wedding, but numbers like $70 million, that kind of thing we're [00:17:00] bounded about. And you know, it was, I thought, you know, you come back from a thing like that with your mind completely altered.

Yeah. You know, and you just think, God, you know, that was something to behold. And then and then they did another one. I can't remember. There's a few in between, but I remember one in particular that was in Barcelona that it was at that point that I just decided, this isn't for me. You know, that cost millions and millions, you know, the, the repress line in the streets to get a glimpse of the, the guests Wow.

And things. And it, and it. The feeling of kind of awe had gone, you know, it was just, it feels a bit absurd. Yeah. You know, and not really your bag, so Well, yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's, I don't think it would be many people's bag. Yeah. Unless you're actually that level of, of wealth and you [00:18:00] just live it all the time.

Yeah. I think, you know, in terms of like pe you know, people like you and me, you know, in terms of like people that end up shooting it, I think a lot of 'em like get trapped, trapped in that tier. Yeah. You know, and, and can't get the, the normal work anymore, you know? Yeah. Like, I'm trapped doing all my clients are kind of like from the home counties, you know?

They're, they're all I've got. I spent, I feel like I've spent my life on the M six. Yeah. You know, and I'm jealous. Of all the people that have got the local work, you know, and they're getting decent money now. Yeah. 'cause Yeah. 'cause it has started to come up here. Yeah. So I'm, you know, I'm spending two nights in London and getting five grand.

Yeah. And they're, you know, they might shoot a wedding on the Saturday and a wedding on the Sunday and get three grand and three time. And So you're, they're actually making more. Yeah. They've, [00:19:00] they've probably worked less. Yeah. Made more. So, yeah. It's a bit of a trap, you know, but I can't get the work round here anymore.

You know, I, I don't know where to start. Right. You know, I, I just, it's a slow process as well, isn't it? Of like. Working in with the venues and working in with the local suppliers and kind of like building that network up, because especially if you've already got that established network, it might be, you might be having to travel down south for it, but it's, you've already got it.

Yeah. And so it's, you're not having to work hard to get those jobs, but you would have to if you wanted those local ones. So yeah, I found, I found the same thing myself. I'm not, I'm not, not saying it's on the same level or I haven't really working with planners, but I've kind of over time used things like Instagram ads and because like I wanted to earn a certain amount, it was just easier to sell it.

Like when, when people up north were, it is, [00:20:00] it is starting to change now, but before, over the last sort of five years when people down south would like inquire and you send the prices out, it's fine. And then, but you send the same thing up north and it's too expensive. And obviously there are a lot more venues down south that are used.

You know, they're used to kind of being more, everything's more expensive so it doesn't stick out. Whereas obviously it's, yeah. Yeah. And there's, and there's a tier, I mean, I wanted to mention before, but I forgot talking about price by sticking to three grand, three grand a day, it'd be, so if it's a multiple wedding, it'd be more.

Yeah, that'd be, they may, maybe like a gram for the welcome dinner or two, you know, then three for the main day, and then maybe a gram for the, the next day or two grand for the next day. Yeah. So, you know, in my mind it was, it wasn't, you know, super cheap, but I lost a lot of work for being too cheap, really.

Right. So I've got, you [00:21:00] know, I've got friends, you know, I'd have friends, photographer friends that had say, Jeff, I've got a gig for you. They're looking for a videographer. Get in there. It's, you know, some. Some like super rich Saudi family and and then they'd have a phone call with the planner, and then the planner would ghost me straight away.

And I found out later on it's 'cause, you know, no one will take him seriously if he's checking feet. Okay. You know, it wouldn't, wouldn't touch me. Wouldn't touch me. 'cause of mc price. Wow. Not even look at the work and find out a bit more. It was just a case of No, that's, that's not enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's it, isn't it?

It's just about, there's these tiers and there's these expectations of like, well, this should cost that much. And it, it depends on the circles that you're moving in and, and kind of the clients that you're working with. And that's more determining the price than the standard of your work or you know, how established you are.

Yeah. And, and all the rest of it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I know a photographer who's I mean, he won't mind my mind me mentioning [00:22:00] his name. Liam Crawley. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't believe what he's charging. You know, when you look at his Instagram account, you, you know, you think, and he goes all over the world.

Yeah. I wouldn't be able to afford this. Yeah. You know, I just assume like, I wouldn't be able to afford this, you know, this is world class. Yeah. You know, I'm thinking he must charge tens of thousands and he doesn't, he charges, like I know what he charges, but it's just like, he probably charges a similar amount to like, to like to most the people that we're Yeah.

We're working with. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, you know, that's a wasted talent. You know, he should be, he should be like sought of, have to buy all the, all the, all the main planets. You know, he, he could be, you know, I need to, but is he, but is he getting, have a word with a few people? Is he getting work with the couples that he wants to work with and that, you know.

Yeah. It's, that's it, isn't it? Absolutely. Is this kind of a motivation ion there of like, yeah, this is a, this is a sort of nice price where a map for the amount of work and then. There's an [00:23:00] element of that. At least I still get to work with couples that I can kind of bond with a bit more than, I never speak to them until like the day of the wedding.

And then I spend 10 minutes with 'em on portrait session. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Yeah. So, rewinding a little bit, you talked about that you mentioned previously that there was a point where you were looking at the mark the five D mark two. 'cause you were thinking, do I wanna do photo, do I wanna do video?

And I, I, I wasn't really expecting you to say that, so go through that a little bit with me. This is obviously way back 2008 type time. Yeah. I, I quickly just got addicted to video. Yeah. You know? And you know, that that was a, a brief little thing. That's why I called my business Jeff Wood visuals.

So that you could do photo. It could be either. Yeah. Yeah. So, but that didn't, you know, that didn't last. I did do, I've done a probably a handful of weddings where they didn't have a photographer and wanted to take [00:24:00] frame wraps. In them cases. I'd take a few stills as well, as well as the frame frame wrap.

Yeah. But I found, I found it very, very stressful. Yeah. You know, shooting, shooting solo and doing, doing both. Yeah. It was pretty stressful. Yeah. But that's something I'm doing now. My my partner girlfriend Jane has, I discovered by accident that she's got a ridiculous eye for stills. She'll tell a story's a funny story.

Go story actually. Yeah. We were at a friend of my, a photographer, friend of mine. I had a, an Airbnb that she said I need some, I need some content for online. You can stay for free if you just take a few shots. Yep. I was like, great. It's beautiful place. Absolutely gorgeous. I did a few shots. The photographer had done a few shots and I was tasked with making a reel for Instagram out of all the shots.

And it just looked, just looked a bit lackluster and a bit, I just thought, what could I have done to make it look [00:25:00] better? You know, I thought it's just not, it's not my forte. This. And then I looked at Jane's phone and just the few snaps that she'd run off with her phone, just, they were, they just blew me up, just blew my stuff out the wall.

Right. And so I ended up making the reel just from her snaps. Right. And it just looked, it looked so much better because of it, because I wasn't concentrating on the right things. You know, I was trying to. Put a cinematographer's eye on it. Yep. And doing these slow move, slow movements of the space where as Jane had just taken what she wanted to remember, you know, the details and the fittings and, and it just, it just looked like, it just looked professional.

It just looked like, yeah, that's what you wanna see. Yeah. And I just thought, I thought that's what I need. You know, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna be doing hybrid, I need someone who's got that eye, you know, to be, to be, you know, capturing [00:26:00] details in an imaginative way. Yeah. But she's never held a camera, hence bought this Sony.

It's for Jane. Really. 'cause you know, I want, we've got, we've got our first gig coming up in in August. So it's about time she picked the camera up and started. That's, that's, that's cool. So what's, what's on then? What's the plan there then? Like, it's funny enough, so just, just to kinda give you a bit of background, like I, I work well for many years.

Me and my wife worked doing this full-time together. She's kind of, she's got another job now, but she still, she still does some weddings with me. But I mean, she, she'd never used a camera in her life and she had no idea about anything, sounds exactly the same. And I just, I realized that she had a really good eye for stuff, but I didn't actually know that until I said, can you help me out with this?

And like, just gave her a camera, come to a wedding. It was really early days when I was kind of building my portfolio so it wasn't charging much and it was kind of a case of just, [00:27:00] I need you to be at the back, you know, turn the press record when, when it all starts. And but then she got all the bits through the day and I realized how.

Good. Her eye was at it, and she obviously, I, I think to this day, if I said, if I talk to her about technical stuff, like change the shut, you know, she shoots full, she's always shot fully manual. But if I say, you need the shut speed needs to be this, unless I give her the exact amount of sh you know, to change, change it to, she won't, she won't know the technical thing of like, I need to change this to do this.

But, but sorry, did you say she sheets fully, manually? So she's, she's short for the last and she doesn't know how work the last five or six years work all the, she does it, she does it by instinct. So like, I've, I've said this, this, I've said, this one does the shut speed. This one does the aperture right in, you know, do, don't really change this one, but if you need to change this one, but don't let it go below this number.

That's basically the rules that we've worked under. And then, and then she's just worked it out. But like in terms of, if you [00:28:00] asked her to explain it to somebody, she wouldn't know how to explain it. But she knows how to do it instinctively. It, it's, it's, it's weird, but it's worked. So. Yeah. Well, I think, well, I, I think, you know, it's photography and, and, and filmmaking.

It's art. Yeah. I think the more you learn, the more technical stuff you'll learn, the, the worse you become. I would say that's true for me. You know, like, yeah. Like, you know, Kurt Cobain, you know, is never, he never learn, you know, how to, how to play guitar. He just did it by instinct. Instinct, yeah. And, you know, so I remember there's some quote, you know, from him about that, you know, which I wish I knew now.

'cause it, it sounds good,

but yeah. I mean, yeah, there's something to be said for that. You know, it's, it's you, you have more happy accidents when you, you know, when you just play. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So tell me about like you and your Miss sister and you, you've got this gig coming up [00:29:00] August, did you say? So what's the, what's the plan with that then?

Yeah, that's that's a really lovely wedding in Urbano in Italy, right. It's, it's with, it's for a family that I've shot four before, and and we've, we've had we've had a Zoom. I, I've been totally transparent, you know, with everything there, even with the phones, you know, they've said they're dead excited, you know, I mentioned that, you know, I might be shooting just on, on iPhones.

Yeah. And they were like, oh, that sounds interesting. That's, you know and they, they were talking about photography and I said, well, you know, Jane's, you know, got an eye, I'm gonna train her up. And they were, I. Happy to be my first client. Brilliant. For the, for the hybrid package. Now they were right to trust me, you know?

I know, I know for a fact. The work is gonna be incredible. Yeah. You know, I've, I've looked, I've looked at on Google and it, it, it's just, you know, stunning. It's just [00:30:00] typical Italian. Yeah. So it's gonna be easy. It's gonna be easy to make an amazing film and, you know, even the frame grabs from the film would be usable.

Yeah. You know, and the fact that Jane's there getting details as well, you know, all the things that I'm not, not thinking about, you know, I've got bags of confidence. Yep. You know, so Yeah. It's gonna be a good gig. Yeah. And it's, it's, you know, it'll be lovely to go, you know, as a couple. Yeah. You know, I got so sick of traveling alone, you know, so it's, it's gonna be, it's, you know, I really see it as a.

A turning point in my career, you know, I'm gonna start really enjoying it again. Yeah, that's, that's the thing I I, for years, you know, me and Lindsay would, we would be able to, you know, it wasn't, it was abroad sometimes, but it was, it was obviously like, even if it's just in this country, just having someone in the car, you're driving places and then on the day, just having someone to have that kinda, like banter [00:31:00] with and, and not have all of the, not have all of the kind of stress of the day just resting on your shoulders.

Obviously, if you're working with another photographer, I guess it's, you could say it's the same thing, but you're not really working together. And what I found is it's, it's good to work in sync, you know, you've kind of got the same goal. Yeah. Yeah. So, absolutely. Absolutely. That, that was, you know, it's gonna be so, so much easier, you know?

Yeah. How many times have you been with a, a photographer who's, you know, a good friend and they've gone exactly in the wrong spot, and you're like, yeah. I don't know how to say, but you could, you just, you know, now I'll be able to say, you know, plan it all out beforehand. Yeah. And, you know, and be on the same team.

Yeah. And that's it. That's, that's, that's basically why I started offering both photo and video in the first place. It was, well, it was a business decision because you as a, as kind of a family, you know, working in it full time, we got. Both sides of the money, but also [00:32:00] that I love working with different photographers and, and videographers, whichever service I'm offering.

It's great to like meet people, but there is that element of being able, like you say, being able to plan it and being able to execute it the way that you would do it, rather than having to kind of compromise sometimes just so that you kind of work well with the person that you're, you're put with and you don't know who that person's gonna be till the day sometimes.

So, so, yeah. That's really cool. Wicked to rewind a little bit to, you've, you've kind of been doing the video stuff and you've come in, you've, you've, you've well established, you're working with these great clients now. So you started doing kind of other bits, industry wise. You started getting involved in Tia, you were a judge in that for a few years.

Is that right? Yeah. Still Aming. Yeah. So how, how, how did that come about? Did you enter, enter the competition and like win it at some point? Or did you just become a judge? I, I, obviously this is probably pre me being in the industry. No, no, and no, I I entered on its [00:33:00] second year when Richard Wakefield was the judge.

Right. And I entered because he was a judge who's Richard? Who's Richard Wake that he, he, he left the industry years ago, probably a decade ago. But he was he, he ran a, he ran a thing called the Web Film Academy. Right. So he was, he was Ed, educating and you know, judging and, you know, so, and he was friend.

I did the, I did a, a joint workshop with him and real vision. So we teamed up together and did this thing and, and so he was judging this competition and I thought, oh, well, he knows his stuff. Yep. I will enter, but at the time, the, the TWE point system that cuts off, like half of the entries cut me off, right.

So I didn't actually get judged. Is that like, so [00:34:00] you get scored, you get scored, don't you? Some Is that was it that bit? Yeah. Yeah. You get, you, you get your clients to fill in this, you know, this score sheet. And if you, if you get 10 outta 10 for everything you go through, one person gives you nine, one person gives you nine.

You don't, yeah. So, so I was, I had a word with Damien afterwards. I said I'm not very happy with the way he, like Richard Wakefield left and then Damien asked me to judge, because I was I was a lot higher in the kind of like in the industry then than I am now. So I was, I was the go-to for Damien and I said, I said, yeah, I'd love to, but this whole point thing is getting rid of people that shouldn't be gotten rid of.

Yeah. So he, he came up with the wild card system. Right. So I was pretty happy with that. So, you know, then, you know, if I've got a load of people that have been knocked off, [00:35:00] then you can look through them and if one of 'em is a potential winner, you can wildcard them and pull them through. Right. Yeah, that makes sense.

So that, that's why that came about. Yeah. So yeah, I had, I did answer and I didn't even qualify, but you ended up as a judge, so it all worked out and yeah. So obviously like from the, on the back of that then, have you done kind of, I think you, you offered mentorship or you'd still do offer mentorship, but like kind, how did you, how did you kinda get into that?

It was a friend of mine asked me it was James Tracy. He'd recently switched over to video from Yeah, I know James. Yeah. And he, he just asked me, he just said, have you ever thought about doing mentorship? I, I said, nah, I've done a lot of workshops, you know, I've done done it to death. And I got, I started getting pissed off at workshops because it became obvious that everyone was there just for the piss up.

So I, so my workshops kind of developed into workshop less workshops. It was just a [00:36:00] social event, just basically, yeah. So we'd basically just all, you know, rent a beautiful, you know, like house in Spain. Just all go for the weekend and just chill. Yeah. You know, just chill. Have a drink talk shop a little bit, but not too much.

But it, it was basically, yeah, that, that, you know, that's what that developed into. Yeah. So when James said, do you want to, would you do mentoring? I thought about it and I thought, you know what, no one learns anything at a workshop. 'cause you go, you listen, you just sit there and listen to someone talk about themselves for a day, and then you go away and just think, well, there's a bit of a talk.

That's it. So I thought if I get a year with him, maybe, you know, that could make it. Big difference. Yeah. And it was, yeah, it was good fun. It was really good fun. And it was, it was nice to see, it was, it was nice for me to go over everything, you know? It [00:37:00] was almost a learning experience for me just to learn what I know.

Yeah. 'cause you've probably never done, probably never gone through, well, what do I actually know? You just sort of been doing it for like, what, well over a decade and Yeah. You get to kind of consolidate all that. Yeah. So, and it was nice to see, you know, how, how much he improved, you know? It was great. You know, towards the end we, we sat down and looked at a, you know, hi.

His last video he did before mentorship and then his last one is, is done recently. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it was, to see that, to see that development was really satisfying. Yeah. Yeah. It was good. Yeah. You still offering that then? Then I did. To the right, to the right person. Yeah. I've done a few, I've done a handful, you know, I've done about, I dunno, seven or eight or something.

It did start to feel a bit laborious. You know, it's, I kind of, I honed it because it became, came obvious when, you know, I was, I was mentoring someone who was [00:38:00] already pretty good. Mm-hmm. And, and it, it, it got to about, you know, she'd, she'd booked a full year, the full 12 months and I'd visit for a full day once a month and, you know, there'd be other things on top.

Yeah. And after about four months, I was just like, my work here is done. Yeah. You don't really know what else to, to kind of provide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it, it got to, so, so then the next, the next one that inquired I'd changed the package. So I'd said it's so much per month, or if you book multiple months, I.

You get a slight discount if you get booked three months and then another discount if you booked six months. But that was it. You know, I'm not gonna do a year again. I don't think that's, you know, necessary. So, yeah, I mean, I've got, I've got two, two hot inquiries on the go for one-offs. So other than that, there isn't any mentorship going on right now.

Yeah. But I'm getting, you know, I'm getting my passion [00:39:00] back for, you know, actually doing the job. Yeah. So, you know, I think that's where my, where my passion's leading me now. Where you're spending kind of focusing your kind of creative mind a little bit more on that and, and kind of Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard, isn't it, to do all the different, all the different things.

I think I just, I, I, I need stuff going on the go all the time. I, I seem to, every time I think I'm gonna have a bit of just focus on one thing. I, I, I tend to just. Find myself taking stuff on when I don't need to, but I think it just seems to work better for me like that. But yeah, I can definitely see the benefit of sticking to sticking to one thing and really focusing on it.

So we'll segue into, I'd heard you on some of the podcasts talking about using your iPhone in kind of within your work, so mixing it in with your other cameras, using it for weddings, like, and obviously like some, we're not just talking about kind of content creation style, but like cinematic [00:40:00] style. So I think that'd be really interesting to talk about because it, obviously, the industry is always changing and there's always new technology and there's always new approaches.

And I think actually at the moment we're in a, a place where there's, there's more approaches and there's more styles in terms of like how people are making wedding films. I'm doing wedding photography than there ever has been. But people usually stick to what they know in terms of how they go about it.

So apart from kind of the DSLR to mirrorless transition, which I think isn't that much of a transition because they're essentially the same, it's the same thing just with a couple of bits changed inside the camera. And then you, obviously you've got the permanent live view, but other than that changing, changing that, it's changed photography, I think more than it's changed filmmaking, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and for me personally, I started [00:41:00] 2015, 16, I, I kind of started doing this and my first camera was a Sony a 6,300. Which was a mi was already mirrorless. I never bought A-D-S-L-R or yeah, I, I, I've used camcorders and things like that from, from way back, but, so I only ever knew mirrorless anyway.

But the idea of using a phone is actually quite a big jump. Yeah, because Yeah. Well sorry. No, no, no. Go for it. I was just, I just, I was just gonna say 'cause it, because it is a very different form factor and a very different way of doing things. It's, it's not as, there's not as much show is there, you know, like a lot of the gear that we use for filming stuff, it's, it's a show.

Yeah. Whereas this is more like, it's, it's stripping it back and just thinking about like, those principles. Yeah. Well, it, it can be a show, you know, you can, you can kit it up. Yeah. You know, there's, there's no, there's no, there's no end to what you can stick on on a phone. You know, you can have, you know, have you seen the behind the scenes.

Shots [00:42:00] of 28 years later. I haven't, I haven't seen the behind the scenes, but I I've looked at the, I looked at the trailer and I had, I heard you talking about on another pad, 'cause I heard you talking about a particular brand of lens that you can get. And I saw the massive lens that you can stick on the, the phone, so I know I'm guessing it's stuff like that.

Yeah. So yeah, so it's, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know it's anything different to any other cinema camera until you zoom right in and see that, you know, there's a phone in the middle of it. Yeah. Because they've got all the same gear that they'd use if, if it was you know, an Alexa in, in, in the middle.

Yeah. You know, it's just all the same. So yeah. And when I have shot with the phone, it's been with, it's been in a cage with a, with a small anamorphic lens on a gimbal. So. It's no one really, unless you look closely. No one knows that it's a phone. Phone. Yeah. It's [00:43:00] when I was, I shot a, a full year of weddings on on a Cannon R five and a phone.

And it wasn't really to prove anything, you know, I didn't, you know, I wasn't like of, Hey, you know, I'm gonna go under the radar and use this phone. 'cause it was in a cage on a gimbal. Yeah. So it looks just like another camera. Yeah. Why? Yeah. Yeah. The, the whole, the whole reason was mainly the cheapness of the anamorphic lens that you could get for it.

You know, I was in, I was interested in that. I was interested in the codec. When I tried the Apple log, it was the best log I've ever used. Right. Wow. You know, it's, I stru, I struggled with S log when I first, you know, when the, the A seven S first came out. And it was, I became, it became unenjoyable.

So I started, I ditched it and started using, you know, other methods. Yeah. But the, the Canon log, sorry. Yeah. The the apple log is just a joy, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's the first time I've [00:44:00] enjoyed a log workflow, right. So yeah, it all started when I, I updated my phone, you know, I'd always just bought a, you know, an se, you know, the same as my kids.

And I decided to start taking Instagram seriously. So I was like trying to do it on my little tiny phone. I was like, this isn't working. I need a new phone. So I went, went down to Apple and I just went, alright, I just want the biggest and best. Okay, there we go. And it was then that I looked at the the video capabilities and I was just like, what?

You know, it was just a massive shock because of the specs though. You can actually get out of it. Yeah. Yeah. And then when I looked at, you know, some of the things that had been done, I was, it just blew my mind, you know? And I just thought, this is crazy. So I thought, yeah, I'm going, you know, I'll buy, I'll buy the BS script, anamorphics and bsri cage, and just have a look, you know, just have a play.

And yeah, I was completely blown away. Absolutely blown away. So I was like, right. That's it. I'm gonna use that for the [00:45:00] wide. Yeah, that's it. So, and, and it was during this year that I started to get a little bit frustrated with the color differences between the phone and the normal camera. It's just work.

Yeah. Yeah. So between the, the iPhone and the the, and the camera. Yep. And I, you know, I thought it's, it's just extra work, you know, what am I gonna do? But just for a laugh. I I shot a wedding only on the phone just to see if it can be done, you know, just for the fun of it. Yeah. And the client, the client was well into it and it was a brilliant experience.

You know, it's, you, you can imagine I'd gone from running around with a gimbal dangling off my belt and a as a kuo stock, you know, thing with a 7,200 millimeter lens on. I'd gone from that, you know, and like, so having gear all over the place and, you know, being all sweaty and going, oh, what should the, I'd gone from [00:46:00] that to just having my phone in my pocket.

And it was the, I enjoyed the challenge because it, it, it changed my shooting style for that, for that gig. Yep. You know, it became, it became less kind of like less movie inspired. Even though, you know, some of the shots through the 58 millimeter like looked, you know, like a movie, you know, so I was, I was surprised at that, but it became more movement.

You know, I, I, I kind of used a lot more movement I in situations just off the cuff, whereas, you know, if you're using a gimbal, you've gotta plan ahead, haven't you? You gotta think, oh, I'm gonna use the Gimbal for this bit. Whereas with the phone you know, it's in this situation where there was like a thimble sized lens on that I could stick them both in my pocket, you know, and just chill out.

I could take 'em out, sit the lens on with a, just a quick bang at fitting Yep. And shoot, shoot [00:47:00] 58 millimeter run and go. And then I could just, you could just flip it up, stick it in sports mode, and just do gimbal shots. And it was just, you know, having them situations where I could just jump out of the back of a car.

Do a gimbal shot and then do other shots. And then, you know, I see a situation where a load of guests are arriving with back lit by a sun, and I'd be like, I could do a gimbal shot of that. Just flip it up and do a gimbal shot with a sun, like flicker in between them. And it just opened up all these opportunities.

Yeah. So yeah, it blew my mind and I thought, right, that's it. That's, that's, that's the solution to this color difference. I'm gonna get rid of the cannon and get another couple of phones. Yeah. And yeah, that's still influx. You know, it's, I've got that, that first gig in Italy, they're, you know, more than happy for it to be all on phones.

And I think [00:48:00] even, you know, even just today or last night when I was playing with this new Sony sorry, is that me? Is that an email? I. I kind of,

I discovered again how good the phone is just while playing with the song in terms of, like, you, you've comp, you were comparing 'em side by side and you actually thinking, well, I'm not, I'm not sure the phone's, yeah. I think the phone might be better. Yeah. Yeah. This, this, there's certain things that the, you know, the, in particular, the, the Black Magic camera app is, that is more of a cinema camera than the Sony A seven C two in just, just in the fact that you know, I've got this Blazer, 50 millimeter anamorphic lens, and there's no way that the camera can do a DS squeeze even for monitoring.

Whereas the Black Magic camera app can do the DS squeeze record in [00:49:00] DS squeeze. And it can do it, it can record in log with a monitoring look, or it can b it can bake in the look, you know, any look you want. Hang on a minute. You're starting to blow my mind here 'cause I've never played with this stuff. So just, just yeah.

So you're not having to take this footage that's looks funky and put it in your editing software and then des squeeze it and then grade it. It's doing that in the camera app Yeah. Whilst you're shooting. Yeah. Yeah. So, so show you, so while you are, while you are shooting it, it's doing all that in the background.

And then when you press, once you finish, you press play and you've got an, a really nice, normal looking animo, anamorphic image. So if you, can you see that? Yep. Well, I've got these I've got these guides here. Yep. For you know, if, if you wanna do Instagram reel, you know, if you wanna frame for a, so the middle, the middle bits, you, you're known by 16 Sono.

Yeah. So ignore them. Ignore [00:50:00] them. So that's No, no. DS squeeze. Yeah. So it's just normal. So you can imagine, you know, you stick your anamorphic lens on and it all starts getting stretched. Yeah. Okay. So then you stick, then you go into 1.55 by anamorphic DS squeeze, and there it's, DS squeezed it and it records it in des squeeze as well.

Right. And that's, that's actually log with a monitoring lot on. Right. So you can see what it will look like once you've graded it. Yeah. Yeah. So you can either you can either just put the lot on in final cut will automatically add the log. Right. So you don't even know you're working in, in load. Yep.

Or you can just bait the lot in, like with, with a phone. Right. So there's, you know, there's loads, loads of things you can do with this phone that I started to get used to. Another thing is if you've got three phones all shooting a multi count. You can, I mean, I've not got, I've not got my other phones turned on, but otherwise I'd show you, you can just, just hit one of these things.

Yep. And [00:51:00] it'll show you all the angles. So you can do the Multicam, other phones, you can do the Multicam almost live. Yeah. Yeah. So you can just see. You can't do a, you can't do the cuts. You can't do the cuts, which I'm sure you'll be able to, I think you can in other apps, but Yeah. But in that one, yeah. On the on the iPad Pro.

Yeah, I think you can. But, but you know, for the sake of just monitoring them Yeah, yeah. And controlling them, and so you can control them. So you know, you can be in a, yeah. So you can be in a church. At the front, trapped at the front, look at your back angle and go, oh, that's slightly over. I'll just turn it down a bit.

You mean you can change the exposure, like Yeah. From the, from the wall? Yeah, you can, you've got just as much control over that phone as you, with this phone, so you can do anything. And then you can sort of hit start, hit start when it's all finished, you know, and on all your angles. Yep. That's amazing.

So the, and the codec is better on this than it is on the, [00:52:00] the Sony, you know, you can shoot straight to ProRes. So it's got a lot going for it, you know, it's, it's basically Oh yeah. And the screen know the screen's really good quality. Yeah. As soon as the. As soon as I started shooting with the Sony, I was like, yeah.

He said, what? You know, I can't even see that 'cause 'cause I've got gotten so used to that. Yeah, yeah. You know, just seeing a much bigger detail screen, you know, people are gonna watch your work. Yeah. And, and you can see it in broad daylight as well. So it's got a lot going for it. Now another thing is the, the readout speed of the sensor, it's, it behaves like a global shutter, so you're not gonna have that rolling shut 'cause the sensor if you're moving around.

Yeah, yeah. Because the sensor's that small, the readout is super fast. It behaves like, like one. Yeah. At, at one of the gigs there was a photographer like shooting straight in, straight into my lens with a flash, not a single flash block. [00:53:00] Really? Yeah. So I was just like, well, that's it, you know. This is, this is a great, great, great camera.

Obviously if you want background separation, you gotta work, you gotta work at it. So with a 58 millimeter like thimble lens on it you've got a bit, you know, you've, it looks cinematic. It's probably looks around about like an F four f, F four f like 5.8 split. Yeah. So, you know, if you're, if you're really into that, you know, super shallow, you know, like, you know, massive Boca Fest, then you're gonna need a depth of field adapter.

So yeah. As soon as you stick a depth, depth of field adapter on it becomes as big as a mirrorless. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So if you, if your only motivation is to be, you know, discreet is to be minimal, yeah. Then that's, that's, you know, then obviously that just renders it useless, you know? There's no point. [00:54:00] But if your motivation is to have all these cinema camera features Yeah.

Which you'd only find on super expensive cinema cameras, then yeah. This with a depth of field adapter is better than any of these Sony muralists. It's just, you know, when it comes to, I just can't believe it really. Yeah. When it comes to like cinema features No, I know, I know, I know. The the, the Panasonics have much, much better cinema features.

You know, you can do open gate. Yeah. So you could get a two, A two by anamorphic on a Panasonic and shoot proper open gate with a live DS squeeze. So, yeah. I think the Panasonics are way, way ahead of the game when it comes to, it comes to that, yeah. An anamorphic workflow. So, yeah. And I think I need to, I need to look at them to be honest.

But, you know, I'm pretty happy with the phone and with the [00:55:00] depth of field adapt to, and an amorphic lens on it, it's gonna be pretty killer, you know? And, and you've you've seen the 28 years later. Yeah, exactly. And yet you wouldn't, you wouldn't know that was shot. That's all right. You wouldn't know that was shot on anything other than in typical kind of cinema cameras that they'd use.

I mean, just, I think what's blown me away a bit there is, is there's, there's obviously these limitations when it comes to size of sensor and things like that, but the soft, it's the software bit that you just said there where you can, like, we can monitor these cameras and yeah, you can get apps on your phone that will monitor your, your Sony muralist camera from other side of the room, but it's all really clunky and you can only, you know, you've gotta go into this app and you've gotta do that.

Whereas if you've just got one app and you're controlling three, three angles. Like you say, you can change exposure really easily and from all the different cameras whilst you're still filming on this one. I mean, that in itself is, yeah, that's a, you know, if they could, they ought to be put in this software in bloody, in the stuff that we're buying, we're paying thousands [00:56:00] of thousands of pounds for Yeah, yeah.

Because obviously it's possible to do it. Yeah. They need to do at least a, they need to do at least an anamorphic dp, you know? Come on. Yeah. It's, and I think the FX three, FX three does, so I'd be, I'd be tempted by an FX three if it had a screen like that. Yeah. But it doesn't, but it hasn't even got, hasn't even got a screen.

Yeah. So I'm just like, oh, so then you'd have to buy a monitor, you know, and then, and then you just create a bigger rig. It's more expense. Yeah. Oh yeah. Just, just remembered the new I've just bought four, four new ones. So these, the Insta Mic and I, and I read, I read that they'll, they'll connect up with the Black Magic camera.

No way. On your iPhone. So you can record in camera as well as the backup on a solid drive. Wow. So, you know, that's a no brainer. I'll have to look at that as well. Yeah. So and that's with the, that's with the Instamatic? Is that the Instamatic Pro? Yeah. Yeah. Right. But I mean, [00:57:00] again, with like all the different wireless microphones that are coming out, if you can link them up to the phone app and it's just something like you say, it's, for me, it's about finding, you want the, you want the best, you wanna get the best results, but with the least amount of faf and, and the most amount of efficiency.

Yeah. Because weddings are fast and things are happening and, and you've already talked about the situations where you'll be jumping out of a car and something will be happening. And if you've got to kinda like, turn your gimbal on and make sure that it's, it's not wonky and you know, and you're carrying all this stuff and you've got another one hanging off your shoulder or whatever, and.

So you've got a bag full of gear to take. Whereas if, if you can just kind of have what you need in your pocket, so in a really small bag that's easy to take with you. That's, that is game changing. I mean what the Yeah, yeah. I think, sorry, go on mate. I think the you know, the, if it was only the, you know, the [00:58:00] sport mode, the, the, you know, the, the ability to get a convincing gimbal style shot without a gimbal Yep.

That alone is, is worth it at a wedding. Yeah. You know, where you're like the, in this situation that you just described, you know, jumping out of a car and some suddenly something's happening, like, ah, yeah. Whip it out and. That alone is worth it. Yeah. And they're only gonna get better these features. They, they're not, you know, they're not going the opposite direction.

They're just gonna get more and more stable. Yeah. The footage is gonna get better. They, this, they could technically put bigger sensors in there, couldn't they? They just, I did see a phone the other day they could with a one inch sensor. It was one of the Chinese models and I, and I thought, well, wow, if, yeah, I can't remember which one it was, but it, I mean, you now, if you've got a one inch sensor in a phone, you're now getting to the territory of, you know, the footage.

When I first started, I was using, it was like a third angle. I was using like a little Sony RX, whatever. [00:59:00] And and it used to overheat 'cause it was small and, I mean, it was almost setting on fire when you were recording like ceremonies and stuff on it. But it, it's, you know, that, that was a one inch center and the footage was decent out of that.

So Yeah. Who knows where it's going. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think two things from what you just mentioned is you, you don't even need a super 35 sensor to get a, you know, like a really cinematic depth of field. The I can't remember what the size of sensors were on the SI two Ks that were used in Slumdog Millionaire.

Mm-hmm. But they were pretty, pretty small. And I think if you, you know, if you, if you hacked away at the, you know, took the lens out and somehow built some way of using 16 millimeter lenses on you or, you know, that kind of thing, then, you know, you could get some cinematic look. Yeah. But, you know, he's going to, he's gonna do that.

But I think as well as that the the kind [01:00:00] of computational fake Boca is going, that's only gonna get better. Mm-hmm. You know, with, with, with. With faster chips and you know, with AI stuff, ai, and it's gonna be, you know, you won't even need a real lens, you know? It, it'll just be faked. And, and if you could sit, you know, if you could sit like a professional filmmaker down and say, okay, which one's real and which one's fake, you know, it'll come to a point where they won't be able to tell, or even pick, pick the fake one and say that's, that's the better one.

That's more realistic. Yeah. You know, it's gonna get there. And so the consumer's not gonna be able to, to tell the difference if, like, you know, if a professional filmmaker's gonna struggle. No. So what are the, what are the downsides then? What are the downsides? Have you've come across anything that you've been like that that's a real fucking deal breaker.

Like, you know, dance floor low light I don't know. PE people, people, low people saying, you look, you look like an [01:01:00] unprofessional person 'cause you've only got a phone. I don't know. What's, what are the downsides? Low light's not been too bad. I generally shoot a dance floor on a gimbal with an anamorphic lens, so that kind of sucks more light into it, you know?

Yep. The, the 24 be becomes, it acts like an 18, so there's more light going in, and I've, I've been on the pitch dark dance floors and the fact that, you know, these pinpoint lights are just creating these anamorphic flares. Yeah. It's just, it's just just gorgeous. But yeah, downsides you have to relearn things.

There's, there's no, there's no really kind of like a elegant way of getting long shots properly in the dark. Yeah. So that is a major problem. So, can you just go closer then a little bit, you know, you just have to get close to the actual Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my longest lens that's working really well is the 58 millimeter.

So if you can get close enough to make it work on a 50 58 [01:02:00] millimeter lens, fine. But, you know, we all know that sometimes you need, you know, a 200 millimeter or something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When I get, they've sold that a depth of field adapters, which is really frustrating. And so I'm just, I'm going grab one.

As soon as they come back on the market with a depth of field adapter, you can use any cannon lens on it. Right. So, yeah. I think you lose a stop at two of light. So if it's a pitched art room and you need a two mil, 200 millimeter shot, you're gonna have to light it. Yeah. So that's a new, that's a new problem that we've, you know, gotten used to not having but loads but load.

Yeah. But loads of people, you know, will take lights to weddings anyway. It doesn't, it doesn't necessarily go with minimalistic. It's a trade off. No, it's it, but yeah, it's a trade off. You know, if you really like anamorphic and you don't mind lighting it, then yeah, go with, go with the phone. Go with the phone and a depth of field adapter sticker.

You know, I don't know what the, the longest blaze lens is. Something [01:03:00] like 150 mil or something. Right. It's like stick 150 millimeter anamorphic lens on it. It's gonna look absolutely gorgeous. Especially if you backlight it, you get some anamorphic flare coming through during the speeches, you know, you're gonna get the most cinematic speeches you've ever captured.

Yep. So if you, if you're into that, go for it. Yeah. But at least, you know, basically something you can do. There's the option there. Yeah, I was trying to think of other drawbacks. The, the battery issue. I've not come across an issue yet because I've got, I've got like a battery attached to the top of my, one of my tripods.

That, you know, whatever phones on that tripod can be charging. Yeah. Plug in. And then this on the, the tilted chrono system, there's a handle thing that you can stick here and that charges it as well. Oh, that's cool. So, and they're, they're like a hundred quid. Right. So like the cost of a, a battery, A camera battery.

Yeah. So you can just buy a load, buy a load of them and, you know, [01:04:00] change them whenever it starts ringing out. But it's lasted all day and night. Yeah. So far. So what's that, that you just had on there? That's, is that like a case that you just had on there that you can attach different accessories to? Yeah, that's that, yeah, that's the Tilter Kronos almost all my Goins are upstairs, but there's like, there's a camp, there's the handle thing that charges it.

Yeah. There's like a lens flip up thing that you can fit lenses to. Yeah. There's a filter tray like you can, like, with a whole like, suite of different like nds and, pro missed filters and stuff. Right? There's, you can attach lights, you can attach a tripod plate you can attach a, this, all these little things there that it's like a hot shoe type thing.

Yeah. So whatever you attach to it will, will be powered by the battery that Oh wow. You've got attached to That's cool. Oh yeah. And when you take that off, there's like a fan that you can stick on the here as well. It cool. Gets hot. Yeah. I've not had knee, yeah. I've not had knee overeating issues yet, but you know, who knows?

You know, when it, when the, if there's an outdoor ceremony, it's Italy shines. It's an hour long. [01:05:00] Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's a great system. There's also this, the Beast Grip system, which is, it's a bit bulkier 'cause this is the one that, that fits any camera. Right. So, you know, as, as you buy different, different cameras, they'll all fit in the same system and the animal fit lens on Wow.

That's the one I use on my gimbal, you know, so it's, yeah. That's not minimal. And which ble are you using to, to do that then? It can't be like, it can't be the smallest running sc Cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's more, more than enough. That's great, mate. So what, what would you say? Like if I, I get my, I've got my phone, I ain't got any of those those g gizmos and, and stuff on it.

What would you, if I wanted to have a go at this tomorrow, what would you, where would you start? Obviously, you know, you don't wanna go out and spend like a couple of thousand quid on all these different accessories and lenses 'cause you might not use it. But if you, you know, if I were to dip my toe [01:06:00] I'd, I'd say if it's, yeah, if it's for Hobbying, I'd definitely go with the moment system.

So the lens that I've mentioned, the 58 millimeter lens is by moment. Yep. They do, they do an, they do anamorphics as well with different style of flares. They do like blue flares, neutral flares, and gold flares. They do wide angle. So, you know, everyone knows the, the 13 millimeter lens is fine in broad daylight.

Yeah. As soon as it's in the dark. Yeah. Yeah. So if you get an, you can get like a wide angle lens, stick it on the normal lens, and that works better in the dark. So a moment do a case that's more like a normal phone case. Yeah. But it's got the, you know, the adapted to put the lenses on. So that's, that's what I'd do.

I'd get that. I'd get the moment case with the 58 millimeter, the 18 millimeter and anamorphic. Cool. And you use a black Magic app? Yeah. Apple set your back about, you think the Black Magic app is, is the best thing out there? Because Apple have got their own Yeah, yeah. [01:07:00] Versions of stuff, haven't they? Like the final Cup camera up and all that.

Yeah, I've not played with that. I had a little look and there's no log. Right. So it's, you know, it's just, it's it's video. Yeah. You know, it's fine for probably, you'd probably be all right doing corporate on that. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, I especially because you can do the, you know, do this Multicam thing with, with the Black Magic app, then Yeah.

Don't, don't use the, don't use the Apple one. Cool. I do do, I do use the normal phone camera when I'm doing fake gimbal stuff because the, the sport mode on that beats, beats the, all the stabilizer options on the black magic. Right. It's, yeah. So it's, it's a bit of a drawback because if you're shooting with the cam, with the, the Apple camera to use Log, you've gotta use ProRes 4 2, 2 hq.

Yeah. So, you know, files are massive. The files are humongous. [01:08:00] Yeah, humongous. But if it's just for the odd shot running around, you know, then that's fine. Yeah. Cool. So where do you think that's going then? If we, we've, we spent quite a lot of time there talking about the, are the phones, I mean, it's, from a technology perspective, it's almost making, not, not saying that everyone's gonna switch to a phone over using the Sony A seven S's and stuff, but in terms of the technology, you know, where it's, where do you think it's going in terms of five years from now, 10 years from now?

What do, what do you think that looks like? What do you think the industry looks like in terms of how, how things are being done? Well, I think the industry is already changing in that, you know, people are going, people are ditching their videographers and going for content creators. Yeah. And it, it's, you know, it's, it's, it is a worry, you know, it's, it is just another thing that's decimating, you know, the the number of jobs like that are up on offer. Mm-hmm. And it's, [01:09:00] you know, it, who knows, you know, my, I'm, I'm preparing myself for any eventuality, you know, I'm, I I'm embracing it rather than running away from it. Yeah. You know, I think, I think there are op you know, with new technology becomes new, new opportunities.

And you mentioned in your email, I think the shot on phones idea that Yes. Uhhuh Yes. So I, I've noticed that on your website. I was gonna ask you about that. So that's, you know, just one of the things that I've just thought, you know, let's set this up just in, in case it kind of like goes anywhere, you know, because I thought about what.

We know the advantages are to like shooting on a phone, overshooting on a camera, and one of them is everyone's got one. Yeah. So I, I thought like if, if all 'em guests at the wedding have got the same camera that I'm gonna bring, do I [01:10:00] really need to go? That's a good point. Yeah. So, you know, I thought might be a good challenge that, you know, so it could be, you know, if I could get a hold of the people that are gonna be shooting and give them, you know, you know, probably do a, a video call with 'em and teach them, you know, how to not shoot, you know.

Yeah. The ba the ba the basics of not movement, not getting shit sh shit footage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, if I, you know, I'd see it as a ma as, you know, a fun challenge, you know, to sort of like, sort of get them to shoot in a certain way and then get all the footage and make something, you know, if you could make something that looks.

Decent out of it. That's, you know, that's, I find that exciting. Yeah. So there's that, there's that idea. So in answer to your question, no, I, I, I have no idea where, where the industry's going. You know, that's, that's why I'm kind of like, open to anything. Yeah. You know, you kind of keeping, keeping kind of options up [01:11:00] and not all eggs in one basket, because it's almost like, I mean, yeah, let's be honest, who would've, five years ago, who would've seen the whole content creation thing come in?

Because all, everyone, I mean, in hindsight, everyone should have seen it coming. But at the time, I think ev, you know, especially within like the wedding videography industry, everybody was like, it was all about. Having the best kit and it was all about creating the best cinematic film that you possibly could.

And, and people, people would criticize people who didn't use lights because, you know, if you don't use lights, it's just gonna be shit. And people would be like, well, yeah, but the, the is o's good on the ISO's good on these cameras. And they'd be like, no, no, because you can't. And you know, I can see, I, I can see the arguments on both sides of, of stuff like that, but, but people would've been like, no cam phones, they, they're never gonna be good enough to, and then we're having this conversation five years later, [01:12:00] and we've already got a situation where I've, I've lost out on bookings to content creators.

So I know, you know, I've, and I'm, I'm not saying that necessarily, I would've a hundred percent wanted that job, but I, I kind of follow up with any, any inquiry. I get an inquiry. They, they don't go with me. I always ask why. Yeah. It's a weird thing. It's a weird thing because it's a misuse of the word, you know, they aren't content creators.

The people calling themselves wedding content creators aren't content creators. They're videographers using the Exactly. That's, what was that? That's, that's my sort of view on it. They're just doing what? Yeah, what They're just doing a, a slightly different style of videography, but it's this, they, they're essentially the same as what I was nine, 10 years ago, starting out and shooting a wedding, and I, and I, I was trying to kind of, you know, I was working out and, and what the, the content that's coming out of it's slightly different because everything's been shot vertically.

Typ, well, typically shot vertically, and [01:13:00] it's in short eclipse rather than long, a longer edited video, but it's still videography. Mm-hmm. It is. It is. And it's, yeah. You, you can't say it's different because I use a different aspect ratio. 'cause you know, you can use whatever aspect ratio you want in video.

You can't, you can't say it's different because it's a short, shorter video. It's still video's, a video. Yeah. You know, so like, when I started, everyone was doing hours, two hours. And I was like, my, my main product was three minutes. You know? So that must have looked, that was, that was gonna be very different.

It video. Yeah. That was gonna be very different sort of 15 years ago. It didn't mean I wasn't, it didn't mean I wasn't a videographer. I was still, you know, I, I, I called myself a cinematographer 'cause I copied off still motion and I thought, oh, that sounds cool. I'm gonna call myself a cinema star. Yeah.

Hang on. And differentiate myself from videography. But I was a videographer, you know, come on. Yeah. So it. Yeah, I get it. You know, they wanna dis differentiate themselves [01:14:00] from videography, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of seen as, it can be seen as hold hat now, you know, and say, oh no, you need a new cool content creator.

But they are, you know, I'm gonna get in trouble for this. I know I am, but they aren't content creators. They, I might be wrong, tell me if I'm wrong, but a content creator creates the content. They're in front of the lens. Well, that's how it's historically been. Like a YouTuber is a content creator.

That's what a con Yeah. Yeah. Like someone like Andy k he's a content creator. Yeah. Do you, have you seen his stuff? Yeah. Yeah. It's really funny. He's a content creator. He's, he's creating this content, you know. If anything, it's the bride and groom that the content creators, yeah, from a tech, from a using V word, how it's being used historically.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So anyway, sorry, I should stood up. I couldn't No, no. I've gotta be in so much trouble now. Well, no, you're not, you're not, you're not kind of, you're not criticizing anybody. You're basically just saying because, because I, I, I have, I've had these conversations with, with my misses [01:15:00] because I'm like, I don't like to be stale.

I like to keep innovating. I like to be open-minded and be, and be. So I've thought, am I, am I missing a trick here? Because there's a bit from a business perspective, not necessarily from a creative perspective, but from a business perspective, I think I'd rather have the opportunity to earn some money by turning up and filming some stuff on my phone and sending it to the couple on the next day, having very minimal editing involved.

And get, and, and again, this is not like fulfilling my creative desire, if you like, but from a business perspective it's prob probably if I, if I put how much money I spend on edit, how much time I spend on editing, I probably getting paid more if I just turn up and shoot on my phone and deliver the clips because I haven't spent the time editing.

And so from a business perspective, it's almost, yeah. Am I missing a trick here? Am I being, am I trying to keep this integrity of like our, oh, I, I I, [01:16:00] I make wedding films, but maybe, no, like you said, we're, we're all wedding videographers. Doesn't matter what you call yourself or whatever. And if, if what couples want is just, they want the clips so they can make their own reels and they don't actually want you to edit something together for them that takes you.

A week. Do you know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. I dunno. Yeah. And, and I'm, I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just, I'm asking the question 'cause I'm, yeah. I'm wondering. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you should just keep yourself open to it, you know? It sounds like fun. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It does, doesn't it? Just, just rocking up and just getting involved, you know?

Yeah. Acting like a guest and shooting all, and then they go, right there you go, job done. But then, but then, you know this Yeah. You know, I used to say, that's not the way to go. Yeah. But then do it. But then you've also, you've also kind of talked about how you can actually use your phone to, to, you know, as an alternative slash to integrate it into your workflow and still create really nice cinematic work.

So, so I can definitely [01:17:00] see, you know, the, the industry, it doesn't necessarily have to go in two different directions. Yeah. So, so I reckon based on our conversation just now, I reckon the far, the far the distant future is you'd be able to just rock up with one phone. Wave it around and the AI will make a wedding film and it'll just instantly edit it all and it'll be like, there you go.

It's 25 minutes long. It's absolutely brilliant. Check that out. Yeah, that's, that, that is gonna be the fit. So, you know, make, make hay. Well, the sunshines, because we'll all be out of the jobs pretty soon. And on that frightening note,

no, but I mean, you're probably right. I mean, yeah, who knows? Who knows where, where that technology goes. 'cause it's already, it's already kind of. Gone. Gone in a completely different way. Yeah. To, to what you would've thought. [01:18:00] So appreciate your time, Jeff. I'm just gonna ask you a couple of questions just to wrap up.

I sent these over so you, you might have an answer to these thought. So I, I, I ski, I skimmed them last night, skim them. I can't remember what they were. Well, maybe you can wing it then. What's the biggest piece of advice you would give yourself if you could go back to the start of your business?

Would it be by an iPhone 15 or go into the future and buy an iPhone 15? No it'd be, you know what? I can't. I can't, I can't complain of how my career's gone. Yep. So just, yeah, it'd be, just do what you're doing. Yeah. Still having a good time doing it. Honestly, it would be, I could, yeah. I think, you know, I've had ups and downs like everyone, you know, and, and.

You know, af after traveling too much, you know, you know, I wouldn't wanna go back and say, oh, don't travel as much, because you miss out on the good bits as well. You know what [01:19:00] I mean? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, no, I, I wouldn't change a thing. Cool. That's really good. It's a cop out, but, you know, it's a good, it's good.

What's something that you bought that you wish you hadn't?

Probably the, the Canon R five. Right. Because it was a very expensive, it was an expensive experiment. Exploration. It was and it, you know, you know, I learnt a bit from it, but it was a step back from the Sony stuff, you know, it was I. The image was amazing. You know, the image was beautiful, but the clunkiness of it, you know, there was, there was so much missing, so much missing from the, you know, the workings of it.

Yeah. And it, it might have been, it might have been the lens, I don't know, but the, the auto focus was dead loud. You know, it was like, it was probably the lens I was using, but it was, you know, it's almost like the, the on camera audio was unusable. Right. 'cause it was just likeer [01:20:00] kind of the server in it.

Right? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, I, I wish I'd have just borrowed one and, you know, and played with it, not wasted my money. Yeah. You can put one wedding trend in the bin. What is it? Well, as in act at the wedding. Yeah. You know what they're doing at the wedding. Yeah. Just 'cause we see so many, don't we?

You stood there sometimes thinking why the fucking hell are they doing this? And then you, and then you see at every wedding that year.

Well, everyone says the cake don't because it's just a bit, you know, but that's a cop out because you know, that's an easy answer, isn't it? Right. If it's actually your answer. Loads of loads of people say the cake. I think that's gotta be something from like decades and decades ago. The cake hasn't it, that we just haven't, we haven't quite moved on from, yeah.

When, when people used to eat sponge, do you, have you ever had alt time? Yeah. Tea and sponge. [01:21:00] Do you remember when, have you ever had, this might be a thing from way back, but do you remember when. They'd have like a chimney sweep. Yes. Up at the wedding. I've had one of those weddings as well. What was that? I have no idea.

What was that about? No, no idea. But I was taking, I was taking photos of this chimney sweep 'cause I've been told to buy the mother, the bride at the mother, mother of the ride. And I was like, I was like, I don't really understand what's going on here. I had to look at it when I got home and it, it was a thing from, from back in the day.

It was something to do with wishing luck. But yeah, I think the official answer's gotta be, no, it pains me to say it because it's great fun for the guests. But it's during our break time singing waiters.

You're gonna get in trouble for that one. There's just, yeah, but you know, it's just that bit where you're like, oh, I can have a sit down now. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. The singing waiters coming on in a minute. What? [01:22:00] No, I think I had 'em up 50% of my weddings last year as well. And I, it mu it like, it must been a big thing last year and I was like, am I ever gonna get to sit down and, and just rest for a bit?

'cause every single wedding seems to have seen it. Weighters, but yeah. I'll take that one. That's it. That's a good one, right? Last one, you're getting married again and you could only pick one thing. Is it photo or video? Which is the best memory video? Ah, there you go. I knew you'd say that video a hundred percent.

'cause you can take frame graphs. Yeah. You can't, it's hard to make a, a video outta photos. Yeah. Although with ai, who knows? Well, yeah. It'll all be a matter of time and they'll be making, making photos do all sorts.

Yeah. But it'd have to be, it'd have to a well made video. Right. You know, that weirdly reading that question got me kind of thinking about like, you know, if I was getting married Yeah. You know, what, what [01:23:00] style would you go for? Would I want Yeah. You know, I think, I think it would be a more kind of flashy, kind of like reels driven right.

Kind of style. I think I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm thinking outta the box here, but I think if I had like 20, like 92nd reels. Instead of like one half an hour film. Yeah. I think I'd prefer it. You see, you, you, you're coming at my content creation, moving into content creation idea. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. We had, yeah. Well that's, it's interesting. Well, you know, I think, you know, yeah, yeah. Because I think, I dunno, I mean it's, it is probably because of, it's like a busman's holiday, isn't it? You know, sitting down to watch my own wedding video. Yeah. It'd be like going to work. You know what I mean?

Like back, I'm back [01:24:00] doing judging. So I think that's, yeah. So I think that's the reason. Yeah. That's the reason. 'cause it'd just be like, oh, you know, I might as well just be working. That's good. That's good. Right? Where can people find you if they wanna check your workout? I. What's your Well, I'm, I'm, I've become all modern and started going on Instagram now.

No. So at Jeff, at, at Jeff Wood Visuals, it's my Instagram. Yeah. And Jeff Wood visuals.com is my website. Brilliant. And who's listening? You should be going and checking out Jeff Work. 'cause whether he is, you're looking at his Instagram stuff, there's stuff he's doing on reels or you are looking at his website and like the longer films.

It's, it's really, it's really brilliant. And I know that you've, oh, thank you. You've inspired, you've ins of, you know, over the years you've been kind of, you've inspired and influenced the style that of a lot of, you know, winning filmmakers of today. So thank you very much for your time. Well, I, I, I only copied off still motion, so thank them.

But they, they must have copied off someone else as [01:25:00] well, is someone's always copied off someone. Well, let's say that. Yeah, let's go with that. I appreciate your time mate. Thanks. Thanks for coming on today and take care of yourself. Thanks for having me. Cheers buddy. You too. Thanks, mate. That's it for this episode.

I hope you have enjoyed listening to my chat with Jeff Wood. I think you'll agree. He's a really nice block and. It's great for somebody who's been doing this for so long, who got so much experience, but is still kind of like hungry to learn and to try things and kind of like keep pushing forward with the times.

And I got so much from listening to the, the, the stuff that he was talking about with using the mobile phones and things like that. So it's been a great conversation. I hope you've got something from it. So the last thing to mention is this week's featured song and it's a Beethoven piece which you can license for music bed, which is pretty cool.

It's piano and outer number 14 in C minor performed [01:26:00] by Ignace pki. I'm not sure if I've got that pronunciation right. This is one of my favorite pieces of classical music. It's very emotive and I think used with the right story. It could work really well. It is a little bit somber in places, but.

I know that a lot of people like to use a sort of a, a small somber tone to the music and, and definitely kind of like that classical piano stuff. So I thought I'd I'd throw it in there because I think it's cool that you can license some kind of more well-known classical songs from Music Bed. So thanks for listening.

Please join me for the next one and take care. [01:27:00] [01:28:00] [01:29:00] Bye.