With All Wisdom
With All Wisdom
Episode #144: Pastoral Reflections on A.I., Part 2
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In the second episode of a two-part series, Pastors Derek and Cliff offer some thoughts about how pastors should use A.I.
Welcome to the With All Wisdom Podcast, where we are applying biblical truths to everyday life. My name is Derek Brown. I'm here today with Cliff McManus. We are both pastors and elders at Creekside Bible Church in Cupertino, California, and professors of theology at the Cornerstone Bible College and Seminary in Vallejo, California. And today we are going to continue our conversation about AI. But before we do that, please check out Withallwisdom.org where you will find a large and growing collection of resources, all aimed at helping you grow in your walk with the Lord, all rooted in Scripture. And we just got done talking about the importance of God's revelation in Scripture. Even just to think clearly about life and reality. We need revelation from God. And so that's what we aim to do at withallwisdom.org with all of our resources, rooting them in God's Word, so that they will actually be helpful for you in your thinking, in how you uh assess the world and discern what's going on in it. And so we pray that you find good resources there. So let's get back to our topic, Cliff. We left off by uh addressing the statements that Elon Musk had made about the future of AI, the future of prosperity created by AI, the future of money. Apparently, we're not going to need money. There won't be poverty anymore. And we addressed that by going to scripture and showing, no, uh we are we know that that can't be possible because what if what God has revealed to us, revealed to us about who we are as human beings who must work and and will work, uh, who uh we are as those who exchange goods and services and even into the the future in revelation that we'll they'll that will that re uh exchanging of goods and services and the use of money will continue uh until Jesus comes back, and then the point about there always be the poor among us, uh no matter what, no matter how prosperous we are. Well, why is that? Well, for one reason at least is because we are sinful people, and even though there might be great wealth and great prosperity, nevertheless governments and corrupt people will take that money and hide that money and keep that money and keep those resources away from certain people, and not everybody will have equal access to those things, and um and you add on to that just the sinful human heart that is that will not work and is lazy and so on. So there's a lot of reasons why there will always be the poor among us, and AI can't fix that, contrary to what Elon Musk is claiming. And so we ended by really exalting the word of God and saying, listen, we need God's revelation to think clearly about any issue we're faced with in life, including AI. And not only that, but scripture has things to say. Uh AI is not in the Bible in as much as AI was not invented at the time of the writing of the Bible, but the the truth in the Bible speaks directly to it. And one of the things that you brought up was epistemology, uh theology of knowing, a theology of knowledge, uh, another important part, anthropology, who we are as human beings, who God is, what is true intelligence, what is the mind, and so on. And these are things that scripture clearly addresses, and so we can take that knowledge and we can apply it now to our questions about AI. And so we're going to continue our discussion. Cliff, you wanted to venture into the question of how to use AI, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, as we I mean, we said some negative or uh critical things about AI in the last episode, um, and that's becoming more and more of a debate in the Christian world, outside the Christian world, is okay. Well, and specifically for us as Christians, um what is there a biblical position? Is there a Christian position about AI? Should we use it? Should we not? Uh what are the parameters and guidelines, if any? Um and and Christians need help sorting this out. And I think we can offer some basic principles from the Bible to help us think through that. And uh it's a balancing act, for sure. Uh, but it goes back to the definition that I read from Peter, Dr. Peter Gaimon that I thought was a good one, where he just basically said that artificial intelligence essentially is a tool. And uh a tool, any tool that's really a tool is is neutral. Like a hammer, you can use it for good or bad. Um your iPhone, you can use it for good or bad. The printing press, you can use it for good or bad. And I'd say the same thing is probably true with AI, for good or for bad. Now but on the other hand, Abner Chow made a good point that AI is a byproduct of computer programming or scientific the scientific process of computer programming. And then Abner's point there is that science is not neutral. There's no such thing as a strictly neutral scientist, is what he's getting at.
SPEAKER_00That's true.
SPEAKER_01Because uh uh science is an is empiricism. Science is a process of induction. Science uh has many scientists, and scientists are humans, and they have presuppositions and worldviews, and they they operate uh according to their presuppositions and worldviews, whether they admit that or not. Right. So the byproduct or the output of the end result of what they're producing is not neutral. So um AI is a tool, but the question is, and because I personally believe that everything that AI comes up with, uh I think there's a finite pool of resources that AI is drawing from. And that pool is filled with information contingent upon whoever the ultimate programmer is who's putting in that information. And if it's an atheist or a secularist or a Darwinian who's creating the AI program, like an Elon Musk has his own AI program, he is operating with a worldview. So it's catered to his worldview. Right. Um, so that's gonna be the challenge or the the limit to it. Um so the this is why we just need biblical principles, is how can we deal with it? Um yes, it's a tool, and on the other hand, uh there are, I guess you could say, unmoved movers behind each AI program, which is a human in the end who has a presupposition worldview, and what is his bent? And we have to be discerning and aware of that. Yeah. Um and so I think you've got some good principles for us, Derek, that we can talk about, and especially applying to Christians, but in particular also uh those in the ministry. Yeah, because we as we teach at seminary, we get these kind of questions from pastors, uh students, even as we're grading papers in our theology classes. I talked about this last Wednesday. I uh assigned some papers, theology papers, and had to remind them in and I asked them point blank. So you guys didn't depend on AI for the content, I hope. I forgot to talk about that. You can use AI for certain things in your paper, but not for the research and the content. Uh you've got to do your own labor. Anyway, so they were wondering, well, what are some guidelines and principles? So I said, Hey, listen to our uh podcast coming up.
SPEAKER_00Well, it is a it is a very important question because I am I am positive AI in that I do think it is a useful tool and I do use it. And uh I I I see it in a similar way is you know, years ago I was kind of in the right on the cusp of of the transition to using software for Greek and Hebrew work. Right on the cusp, you know, is because I was, you know, this is about almost thirty years ago. And it was it had been around already, you know, Bible works have been around, but uh I know by talking to others that one of the big issues was should I use, should you use a software program to parse your Greek verbs and to help you with diagramming and and all this sort of stuff and to to do all that work. And that was a fair question because the concern was is this going to diminish the scholar or pastor's ability to really understand and know the word? Is this a lazy shortcut? And so these were the kinds of questions that are very similar, if not the same, that we're experiencing now. And so I think you have these kinds of questions come up at every major turn of technology where you have a new tool introduced, you have to start asking these questions. And they're the right questions. I don't fault anybody for having hesitations about Bible works. That's that's okay. In fact, when I started getting introduced to it, I started to wonder, like, hmm, what would Will Varner say about this? Would he come and smack me up alongside the head and say, You've you memorize, you know, you need to know the the Greek parsing yourself.
SPEAKER_01Will Varner, professor of theology at Masters University?
SPEAKER_00And Greek professor, and he I'm afraid, I'm afraid of what he might have said to me.
SPEAKER_01It sounds like you're still having nightmares about that. The guilt. Well, it's interesting you mentioned that, Derek, because I'm a little earlier than you in terms of the generation I came from. That's right. So my professors, uh, my Greek professors in college and especially at seminary were old school, they were older. Yeah. And in Hebrew class and Greek class, they literally hammered into us that whatever you do, you are to never use an interlinear translation of the case.
SPEAKER_00Oh, an interlinear, okay. Okay. And so I think technology. It's technology.
SPEAKER_01It's not electronic or whatever, it's not AA, but it's technology. It's an advanced, it makes things go faster. That's right. And so I was thoroughly trained after three years to never use an interlinear Bible. And then as the years went by, life got busy. And I'm not a Greek and Hebrew scholar like those guys, because they only do one thing, they only do Hebrew or Greek. Right. They don't have a life. Right. I had a life and other duties. I had four kids. I was like, no. So after about 10 years, I thought, you know what, I'm gonna cheat and I'm gonna use my interlinear Bible. And now it's on my desk and I use it every day. Yeah. And it took me a while to get over the guilt of that. Yeah. Uh, but it was the same dilemma that uh I was confronted with and challenged with. Yeah. I thought, no, it's not inherently evil often. An interlinear Bible, at some point I came to realize an interlinear Bible was not inherently evil.
SPEAKER_00I would hope not. It was just the word. The word of God is not inherently evil. That's good to know. Uh, and same here. So I I use, I don't use uh Bible Works is gone. It went obsolete. Now I use accordance. Wonderful tool. Uh, use it, I'd say, every day, mainly for Greek and Hebrew, um, going through and using that to to know the scripture, to give me help with knowing the Greek and the Hebrew, uh, as I'm going to study a passage and in preparation for teaching it, that I'm using that technology to help me better know the scripture. And yes, I do hover over it to get uh parsing sometimes. And and I have no qualms about that in my conscience. I believe this is a good gift, and I can thank God for it. Uh, and one of the principles is that we're going to address is or suggest is that you need to, as a pastor, you need to know what your job is, you need to know what your work is, you need to know what you are being required to do biblically speaking. And you don't want your use of technology to infringe upon that. That would be kind of a principle I would lay down. And my work as a pastor is to know the word of God, know it accurately, and to be able to teach it accurately and to teach it well. And um tools that enable me to do that are are legitimate. And so I I've evaluated a program like accordance as being useful to that end. That doesn't do the work that I'm required to do for me, and so that's an important principle. And so that you can apply that now. So the only reason I brought all that up was simply to say that now we're in the age of AI, and what you're finding is people asking questions about okay, now how can I use AI in my pastoral ministry? And let's narrow it down because we're talking about Bible teaching and preaching. How can I use it for that task? And same questions that were being asked with accordance and bible works, they're being asked now about AI. And I would say, again, AI is a tool just like that accordance software, that Bible works software. It's a tool to be used. How we use it is the question. So I think the first thing I would say is when I look at I so I I use Claude.ai. Uh I think it's the best uh platform for me and what I'm doing. And uh I have the paid version, the $20 a month version, which I heard is gonna go up. I don't know, someone's was saying how it's gonna get more expensive as we go on, because I was surprised it's only $20 a month. But anyways, you can get a more expensive version. But uh that works for me. And the question that I've received is Derek, how do you how do you use it? Like, how do you and and the first thing I say, well, uh one thing I do not do and never will do, and I said this from the pulpit, it will never generate content for me. Period, full stop. And why is that the hard line? Well, because I believe that that is what God has tasked me to do as a teacher. Uh, and this is this is modern language, I don't like this language per se, but I am the content creator, and in as much as God has tasked me as a teacher, uh as a believer, made in God's image, to study the text and then teach that text to the people. And in God's grace and wisdom and kindness, um He is working through my mind, my personality, who I am, as I study this text, to then draw out the meaning, to then convey that meaning to the people, and that's the work that He's given me to do. And so I don't think it's right, and and this is where my conscience stops, I do not think it's right for to use AI for content creation if I can use that language. Again, it's not the best language, but just to get the point across, I can't use it, won't use it for content creation. That means then, very practically, that I do not type a prompt into my Claude and say, Hey, uh, I've been busy this week, Claude, and I need your help, and uh I never prepared my message on Ephesians 6, 10 through 20 for the Yopros. Can you write me up a really good message on that passage? To me, if a pastor did that, my judgment is that he's disqualified from the ministry because he is giving over the task that God has given him to do specifically, the the important, the vital, the the crucial task of knowing the Word of God and then conveying it through people. And I'm gonna talk about what that actually means in a minute here, because I think once you realize what that means, you realize, oh, AI can't replicate that. But once a man started to do that, he's he's abdicating what God has actually called him to do, and it's a misuse of AI. So uh so even though I've had a busy week, I still have to get in the text myself. I still have to work and I have to be the one who's creating the message. So that would be a hard stop for me there, a hard line, a red line. Uh beyond that then, though, the question is are there legitimate ways? And yes, I would say uh I like the word research assistant, and what I mean by that is I can ask um Claude, hey, Claude, can you um give me the let's say I'm I'm doing a uh uh I'm teaching on spiritual warfare, because that's Ephesians 6, 10 through 20, right? And an important I would ask, hey, Claude, give me the five um, give me five top books that have been written recently uh on the topic of uh spiritual warfare, and then give me links to where I could find those. Or give me uh ten of the most popular articles on spiritual warfare, uh, and then I would say, okay, now go from popular to academic and these kinds of things, and then give me the links. And so it would take me to these, give me these resources that then I can go and and look at for myself. And that's similar to what you could ask a uh a research assistant to do. Hey, research assistant, can you go do this for me and then bring them back? And it's uh simplifying the process, it's speeding up the process in terms of the gathering. What I don't ask them to do is to to do the work that I need to, namely to assess those materials, assess those sources, and then draw my own conclusions. And so that would be one example, using it as a research assistant. Some people use it as a as a way to get uh illustrations. I am still uncomfortable with that. I think the illustrations need to come from your own observations of the world, and the reason I believe that is because just take Charles Spurgeon as an example. Um, you want to talk about a master illustrator. Well, Jesus. Jesus was a master illustrator. I mean, every other word it seemed was some sort of allusion to something in nature or uh to the Old Testament or I mean, just this constant use of illustration. But just to take a contemporary example or a modern example, Charles Spurgeon full of illustrations. And I remember being in in college and you know, talking to other guys or in seminary, and there was this kind of feel like you shouldn't have illustrations in your sermons. And I'm like, oh, okay. Guess I shouldn't have illustrations in my sermon. And then I got a hold of Spurgeon. I was like, well, that's weird because everybody loves Spurgeon. It's like everything he says is kind of an illustration. And wait a second, Jesus is illustrating a lot, it seems, just using, at least using um illustrative language to convey a spiritual truth and telling stories a lot, too, by the way. And um, and I concluded that uh, you know, Jesus, Spurgeon, uh, we'll just take Spurgeon in his case. Well, why was he full of illustrations? Well, because I think he was full of God and full of the word of God, and he kind of just saw life that way. And so everything he saw became an illustration of a spiritual truth. Not because he was trying to please tickle people's ears, but because he was just full of the Spirit and everything he and full of the Word of God. So everything he saw kind of turned into an illustration. And so, in that way, then a Christian preacher, uh, a man who is walking with the Lord, should have some ability to be able to look at life and pull out illustrations here and there, whether it's from his personal life, like you've you tell uh some great personal stories that are always entertaining and and and funny and and they really help land uh uh one of your points. Um I remember you talking about how uh it was some sort of thing about spiritual discipline and how you were either you were taught or or someone had a rubber band, they'd snap. I still I remember to that to this day I remember that. It was so funny. And Colton loved it too. Um so I would I actually again maybe this is a conscience issue, but just to help guys think about it, the idea of getting AI to get your illustrations, there seems to be something not great about that in my judgment, that you want to be someone who's training yourself to be able to see these things yourself because you are meditating on the word of God and you are seeing the illustrations in life, and then you are bringing it. And frankly, I just think that's more real. It just comes across as being more real.
SPEAKER_01Well, I've had a I've had a problem with this is just me. There are entire preaching books that are just on illustrations.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's true, yeah. I have a few, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and I never I never used them because of like uh for whatever reason. I just don't felt inauthentic or insincere. Right. I want it to come from the gut. Yeah but John MacArthur's um commitment for most of his ministry was if he's gonna use illustrations, he's using illustrations from the Bible. Right, yeah. Which is good because then you're getting a double dose of the Word of God. Yeah. Uh so I believe in that. Uh that's helpful. But um I I get so I would agree with your point there. Um I think there's some authenticity involved there. And that's helpful. I like your phrase too, research assistant. That's a good way to and even when you ask uh Claude or whoever that guy is that helps you. Grok or Claude. Um even if you say give me five resources, even the way you word it, if you say the five best resources, that's totally subjective. Right. They might not give you the five best ones. Right. It's selective, bottom line. It's like a good, you know, I'll pick up a new good commentary in Revelation that's an exegetical scholarly commentary, and the first thing I'll do, I'll look in the back of their to see their bibliography, and they got like 200 resources used for their commentary, and I'll be looking. Well, did they use Robert L. Thomas from Master Seminary? Oh no, they didn't. Wow, what an oversight. Uh so you can have that problem with AI too, that it will be selected. Uh and you always just have to that's another thing with AI even using it as research assistant or a tool. You always got a supplement or double check or fact check.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, fact check, and that's why I always ask for links. Uh I don't take uh Claude's word for it. Um I have I'll I'll go back and forth and I'll re-ask questions and and so on. I'll go deep uh deeper because you can't just merely trust that what it puts out is legit, just as an example. Uh I'm trying to put together a uh a guide to logical fallacies. I recently read a book that was so full of logical fallacies I almost fell out of my chair as I was reading it because it's published by a pretty big publisher. And it seemed like every page had a very obvious logical fallacy. And so I asked Claude, could you prepare me a document that has uh just kind of an exhaustive or comprehensive document on logical fallacies? And each under each one explain what it is and then give me examples of what the logical fallacies. And I'm not gonna publish this or anything or try to claim that it was mine, I just want it. For my own uh thinking through these issues. And uh and the some of the the examples that it gave were clearly anti-creationist, um, anti-uh uh Christian. I thought uh there's a bent here. There's a there's a there was nothing in there where it was turned the other way where it was a uh an evolutionist making a silly uh logical fallacy and that you could point out it was always the Bible believer, the creationist, or the Christian. And I thought, well, that's interesting. Where's that coming from? Well, to your point, it's not purely objective, a purely objective tool. Yeah. Um it it's come from people who have worldviews and so on. So just a reminder to people that you you can't just say, oh yeah, that's what AI says. It must be true.
SPEAKER_01No, AI is not objective. Today, in preparation for this, I asked AI a question on my Google phone. So it must have been Gemini.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is it a historical fact that Jesus rose from the dead? And the answer was not yes. As a matter of fact, they questioned it and quote, said, There's no quote academic evidence to prove that it was a historical event. Wow. So, no, that's not intelligence. That's unbelief.
SPEAKER_00That's right. That's demonic. That is wrong. Yeah. What an excellent point. It is not intelligence, it's unbelief conveyed uh through this uh machine. Yeah. Right? That is what is it doing? Well, what does that show? That shows that it's it's the way that it's programmed, or the way it's picking up things, or the way that it's gathering information, or the way that information is conveyed, or the way it selects information, all those things, that it's coming back with something that is uh completely and totally wrong.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, the sentence, the sentence was because there was no quote secular or academic proof. Yeah. And I was Derek, do you think there's academic proof of the resurrection?
SPEAKER_00Well, depends on how you define academic, I think.
SPEAKER_01And I think in our circles, absolutely there's academic proof. Yeah, exactly. Uh starting with the Bible and an academic analysis of it, if you're objective, led by the Spirit, yes, there is academic proof.
SPEAKER_00Jesus rose from the dead. Absolutely. Revealed in God's Word. But if if academic is defined differently, if it's defined from a uh secular, naturalistic point of view, then well, yeah, it's by definition, there wouldn't be much because they have a bias against the Bible. I mean, it's just speaking of logical fallacy. So um, boy, we've we've still have more to say, but um uh let me just go through these uh briefly and see what you have to say about uh these cliff. Uh I I preached on this and then I we published an article uh with all wisdom about this, but just the a reminder, uh, and hopefully these principles will help you as a pastor, if you're listening, to think about how to use AI and how not to use it. Um I recently uh, well, several months ago, was on the phone with somebody who's who had kind of caught their pastor red-handed and using AI. And uh so this is happening. And so uh we need to be aware of it for ourselves as pastors, but also if you are a member of a congregation and you suspected this, then you need to address it. Uh so if someone is using AI to create their sermons, namely to write their sermons, um, to create the content, um, even I would say to really clean it up, like here's my nasty manuscript that I spent three minutes on. Can you clean it up for me? And it turns it into this nice, nice piece. I I'm not sure that that's the right way to go either. Uh the what you preach needs to come from you. And the reason why is because a man who is using AI for sermon writing doesn't understand that authentic preaching and teaching uh only comes from a man who is experiencing the sanctifying power of the word of God for himself. So I wrote that in that article. And so the the preaching is not merely getting up and reading a manuscript. Like, there are men who do that, that they've been caught and they get up and they read John MacArthur's sermon. But that's not what preaching is. Preaching is a man who's knows God, coming to his word, being changed by that word, being filled with the Spirit, and then conveying the truth of that word from an authentic life and heart now out to the people. Uh and people can tell. I mean, after I think there is a reason why this guy got caught in AI plagiarism, because you're listening to and you're like, that sounds kind of stale, doesn't sound like you. Like, where's this coming from? And so the mistake that people are making, guys that are making, is that this is true, real, life-changing preaching doesn't come from a just get up there and reading something. Uh, it has to be conveyed authentically from you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And which is one of Howard Hendrick's teaching points that teaching and preaching the Bible is always the overflow of your study in the Word of God.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Overflow. Um, which leads to number two, he might be doing this because he no longer has a taste for communion with God. And I mean, one of the great privileges is as a pastor, one of the greatest privileges, and boy, I hope I'm not wasting this privilege, is that uh we get time on a daily basis to be in the Word of God and to study it deeply and to pray to the Lord over what we're studying and to have communion with God.
SPEAKER_01And so a man who wants Is studying the Bible one of your favorite things to do too?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think studying the Bible is my favorite thing to do.
SPEAKER_00There you go. Not one of, but your favorite. Yeah. And so if a man's having AI create the content for his sermon, that there's something desperately wrong at that point. Like, what are you what are you what do you like to do? Like, what do you want to do? Don't you want to be in the Word? Don't you want to spend time with it? And I get it. Like, there are times when it's not as pleasant at other times. Like, there's times when I actually am not looking forward to it as much because I know it's gonna be a really hard passage, and I'm not exactly sure what it's says, and I gotta preach it. And so, oh, yeah, I get it. Like, it's hard. It's an exegetical grind. I read that phrase in a a work by uh uh a word uh book by Owen Strand years ago. It's an exegetical grind, I love that phrase, but it's a grind, and so I get it. Sometimes it's not always as pleasant as it is as it could be, but nevertheless, the the fruit and of the effort is the Lord. I've I've just seen this in my own ministry, the Lord blesses that effort, he really does. How does he bless it? He blesses it by giving me clarity through that hard work, and then he blesses it by giving other people clarity. That's that's awesome. So uh if you're wanting to create content for your sermons, that's just why why why? Why would you want that? Uh number three, he's lazy. It's tied to number two, but it also has its own category. You're lazy, you just don't want to do the work, it's a grind. I get it, it is hard. But um I I mean Paul tells Timothy clearly, like, you need to work hard to show yourself approved. Like, that's the point. Um, so that you can present this to the Lord and say, I worked hard, I've I'd labored over this.
SPEAKER_01And um that's a very important verse, 2 Timothy 2 15. Approved. You want to be t tested and approved by God and how you handle the word. And that entails a workman. That means work.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_01If you don't work and you're fudging, then you're not approved by by God. That's scary.
SPEAKER_00It is scary.
SPEAKER_01There's higher accountability for teachers. James 3. Or uh 1 Timothy 5 17, elders who lead well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching, which means work hard at exegesis, work hard at study. That's right. Work hard, the word there for work hard copious. I was gonna ask you if it was copious copious, hard working, to grow weary, toil, diligently labor. No pain, no gain.
SPEAKER_00And then I love First Timothy four where Paul tells Timothy, be immersed, I think it's literally be in these things, be immersed in these things. And I think that that kind of mindset that separates the if I can use this language, the men from the boys when it comes to pastoral ministry. That you have some guys who are like, mm, this is my nine to five, and then you have some guys who are like, yeah, when I go to bed at night, I'm I'm reading books on theology, and when I get up in the morning, I'm listening to things on theology. And when I I'm driving to work, I'm listening to a sermon, and when I'm at work, I'm studying scripture, and when I'm you're just immersed in it. Yep. So then it becomes an as a true overflow. Um it's interesting. I'm gonna maybe uh write an article on this, but the pastor is soldier, and I was listening to uh some there's some great stuff online right now about these retired Delta Force guys, and the question is, what kind of separates you from the conventional soldier? And he says, Well, uh the the Delta Force guy is he's basically essentially you're you're just doing it every second of the day, and you're responsible for doing it. No one's telling you what to do, but you are so committed, you are so d he even used the word devout. You are so devout that all of your life, every second, is soldiering. That's it. And conventional soldiers, uh, they need someone to tell them what to do, and that's fine. They tell them what to do. Um, you probably take some time off, you know. You there's you're not but Delta Force, they're always on and it they're always thinking about it. It's all it's just what they are, it's who it's who they are, it's what they do. And I thought, hmm. There's some parallels there to the pastoral ministry, at least the way Paul describes it to Timothy and being in it. So anyway. Um he's lazy. So uh number four, he is not gifted in teaching. That may be why you're getting AI to write your sermons. If you're not gifted in teaching, that's fine. Like, go you can do something else. Yeah, like you don't have to be in pastoral ministry. Uh and number five, he craves other people's approval and outward signs of personal success. So then he kind of just lives off of this is going back to we've known of churches where this has happened where a man was reading John MacArthur's sermons.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And you're like, well, John MacArthur had a big following. Maybe if I read his sermons, I will have a big following.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. It doesn't work that way. No. People do the same thing with Rick Warren's sermons. Yeah. But Rick Warren actually gives them the sermon to preach.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've heard that.
SPEAKER_01Whereas John MacArthur wasn't aware people were reading the sermons. Yeah, yeah. And they think they can just replicate the big church.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. So, uh we hope these principles have been helpful. I think the main thing is that you have to discern clearly and determine clearly, okay, what is scripture calling to me, calling me to do as a pastor. And uh it's to know the word of God and to be able to accurately teach the word of God. Uh that means it needs to be in you, it needs to be part of you, it needs to be authentically in your heart, in your mind, you're immersed in these things, you love these things, you love what you're doing, you love what you do, you love the scripture, you love Christ, and it's just it's what you do. And I think, boy, if if that's if that's where you are, it's almost as though I don't need to give you a lot of instructions on how to use AI.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You you'll figure it out. Like you'll just naturally figure it out. The the gentleman I was thinking of that that got caught recently uh by a friend of mine, um, i you you kind of look at that and go, it this seems to be an indication that uh deep down you're you're not really in these things uh in the way you should be. You're not immersed in them. You don't you don't seem to love them the way you should. But uh so that that's why I see just some of these principles, understanding what your calling is as a as a pastor, and then and and seeing that clearly, that will help you navigate the AI world in terms of how to use it. And um it's a great tool. I've I've used it a lot, and uh it's it's been helpful, uh, but I trust it's it's never been misused, and I and I hope it never will be, at least in my case.
SPEAKER_01So Amen. Any closing thoughts, Cliff, or anything you want to Well, as with anything, and any tool, um naturally given, or one's tools that we develop because of human ingenuity and common grace of God and advanced technology, 1 Corinthians 10 31, whether then you eat or drink, or whatever you do, including use AI, yeah, do it all to the glory of God. Yeah. And that needs to be the heartbeat of every true Christian who loves God.
SPEAKER_00That's right. That's right. Um boy, so helpful. It's we don't we don't need uh multiple different uh instructions and and precise instructions. It's do all to the glory of God, love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, uh, work diligently, you know, these things lay it out so that we can discern the questions of AI and really any other technology that that comes along. Because there'll there'll be there'll be others. Yep. Questions like these will arise again, ethical questions like these will arise again for pastors and for all Christians. So we hope this has been helpful for you. Uh if if there are any other issues you'd like us to cover, please let us know. You can even email us at editor at withallwisdom.org. Uh you can check out withallwisdom.org for more resources uh like these. And until next time, keep seeking the Lord and his word.