Kickoff Sessions
Weekly podcast episodes with the sharpest minds in the world to help you live a richer & more fulfilling life.
Previous guests include Luke Belmar, Justin Waller, Sahil Bloom, Gad Saad, Peter Schiff, Stirling Cooper, Jack Hopkins, Sadia Khan, Matt Gray, Daniel Priestley, Richard Cooper, Justin Welsh, Arlin Moore and more.
Kickoff Sessions
#253 Jenny Hoyos - The 19-Year-Old Who Cracked YouTube’s Algorithm
Join Jenny for her 21 Days to Viral program and learn how to make anything go viral with short-form content: https://nas.io/jenny/challenges/21-days-to-viral
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Think you know what it takes to go viral on YouTube?
Jenny Hoyos has cracked the code for creating content that keeps viewers hooked!
In this episode of the Kickoff Sessions podcast, Jenny reveals her strategies for building a loyal audience, designing the perfect hooks, and turning everyday moments into viral sensations.
Jenny dives deep into how she tailors content for different platforms, the role of color theory and set design in storytelling, and why understanding your audience is more important than chasing algorithms. She also shares how creators can monetize beyond ad revenue and leverage their content to build businesses that actually last
If you’re ready to rethink your approach to creating viral content this episode is for you.
Connect with Jenny Hoyos
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennyhoyoslol/
My Socials:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/darrenlee.ks
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-lee1
(00:00) Preview
(00:45) How to Create The Perfect Hook
(03:34) Tailoring Content for YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram
(08:59) Jenny Hoyos Content Framework
(10:47) Finding Your Niche
(14:12) How to Improve Your Content
(17:34) How To Create Viral Hooks
(22:26) Set Design and Color theory
(27:54) Why the Comments Section is Important
(33:52) How to Build a Loyal Community
(40:23) How to Go Viral on Short Form
(46:59) The Psychology of Audience Discovery
(49:54) Monetization Strategies for Creators
(55:03) How to Monetize Your Audience
(57:11) Jenny’s Journey as A Content Creator
(01:01:28) Understanding Audience Psychology
(01:02:10) Jenny’s Program: Go Viral NOW
First things first, the best hooks. Don't have a hook, how would you make someone curious? You need to be specific as to what's going to happen, but they don't know how that's going to happen. No one realizes how hard it is. You know it takes longer to find a place to film and to set it up than it does to film the video. You can still spark controversy without being controversial.
Darren Lee:Before we start this video, I have one small favor to ask of you. If you've been enjoying the US tour so far and all the effort we put into making these videos as best as possible for you, please hit the subscribe button down below so we can help more people every single week, Thank you. So where I want to start is with this episode. How can we make these clips go as viral as possible?
Jenny Hoyos:oh, that's a good question, um, having the best hooks. Hooks are the most important thing. If you don't hook the viewer, then they're not even going to watch the rest of the clip or the video, so we have to have very strong hooks what do you think about when people say you shouldn't repurpose podcast clips into short form? I think they are being close-minded. I mean, it's uh. Podcast clips definitely do well in short form content. I think content can be repurposed on short form as long as it's tailored for short form can you expect yeah.
Jenny Hoyos:So reposting a and even so, like I was gonna say, reposting a raw clip would probably flop, but even so, like reposting a raw clip could still do well if it was, if it was like perfect in the moment. But good content just gets views. I mean, if there's a funny moment or a really good takeaway, it's going to get views. But when I say especially when you optimize it, I mean if you cut out all the fluff and literally it's edited to be as if it was a standalone short, then I think it's totally fine so are you?
Darren Lee:do you recommend only creating native content for a platform or can you do the repurpose kind of gig? And the reason why I ask is a lot of people that I see with podcast content. It might perform well on Instagram but flop on YouTube or not work on TikTok at the same time.
Jenny Hoyos:Wait. So you're sorry. So you're saying or you're asking me if it depends on which platform.
Darren Lee:Yeah, as in. Would you specifically focus on that exact platform, like natively, because the code underneath is quite different? Right Code on different platforms is different, so maybe your video is interpreted differently by the analytics, by the platform, by consumption yeah, there's different audiences on different platforms.
Jenny Hoyos:So I mean, of course, a video should be edited differently for different platforms, um, but it is. It is tough to do that, like even with my videos that are completely like, not a Like. Even with my videos that are completely like, not a repo, like even for my videos that are its own thing. You know, ideally it would be like edited differently for different platforms, but it's not. It's depending on the team and resources. It's not very accomplishable. So I think it's usually best to to focus on one platform and um repost from there, because a good video could still do well on all platforms, although I I do think that all platforms are different, so there is going to always be one that does does better if you're focusing on that one, just because there's different audiences on different platforms how do you differentiate between platforms like what do you think is best suited?
Darren Lee:what style of content is best suited for youtube compared to instagram? Is it more story-led, more narrative driven, more entertainment like? How do you distinguish between those different factors?
Jenny Hoyos:yeah, youtube is definitely the it's, it's the platform for storytelling. Youtube wants narratives, um, like, like I'm trying to think okay, so youtube, not even just just short form content, youtube as a whole is going to be the next netflix. It is going to. It is already beating tv and cable. So people who are watching short form content do want more of a journey, narrative, character development. But when it comes to the other platforms, people are more they're they're they're more likely doom scrolling, um. So I will say I think tiktok or youtube, is more, uh, should be more edited. Tiktok is definitely more raw and instagram is also raw, but shorter than tiktok. I feel like tiktok could be three minutes and raw and people still watch it. But instagram they the audience, read like short clips, but they also like concise value. People who are on instagram tend to be, um like, the most popular content on instagram is like self-improvement content. So, especially in, typically, that's like what podcasts are for the most part, no, no, that would crush it on Instagram.
Darren Lee:Why do you think YouTube is going to become more like Netflix? Let's watch it.
Jenny Hoyos:I mean, youtube is a free, just like all the other platforms. It's a free platform, it's. It's owned by Google. Um, it's, it's just. It's, it's the biggest. That's what everyone's doing right now. Everyone's using YouTube right now to watch movie-like content. I mean, you can see that people are posting like one-hour videos now, like you can even see with YouTube recently how they made shorts now three minutes long, because shorts are the new long form and now long form is the new movies, or it's long forms are before long forms, like 10 minutes, but now they're trying to beat movies. So now shorts, the new long form. It's kind of hard, like I don't know if that was a good wording, but that's what I see that's super interesting, even the production, so we can have a look at that.
Darren Lee:Initially, right. I noticed that even with my podcast now like we have to have the best cameras, the best lenses, the best storytelling the standard is just getting better and better. As a result, you kind of have to evolve, right? It's just basically like everything. So how do you think about the standard of short form compared to even when you started crushing it initially so maybe two, three years ago, when you started really taking off? Do you think that all the standard in general is higher and therefore it's more competitive to compete?
Jenny Hoyos:Oh my goodness.
Jenny Hoyos:Yes, the standard is always getting higher and with more technology, more tools, ai, like generative film, and now there's going to be generative video, the standard is always increasing.
Jenny Hoyos:So it's unbelievable how I can optimize my video as much as I want right now and in five years the technology is going to be so good that it doesn't matter how good I did now. I'm just going to get outshined by the new technology. So, honestly, because of that and I've been looking into this myself and experimenting because of that the only way to truly combat that is if your videos are good raw. You know if that makes sense, because if you have editing, the editing is going to look like like an old style in the future. But if there's no editing, the video was just like really good in a really good raw moment, or like it was just like a real life funny moment. Then that could still stand the test of time because people knew you weren't trying to edit. It was just like a real life funny moment. Then that could still stand the test of time because people knew you weren't trying to edit.
Darren Lee:It was just like a raw moment caught that could be shown for years give me an example of that, like what would be a raw moment that can stand consistently. Is that the video on its own?
Jenny Hoyos:yeah, I think, yeah, I think, um, I think of stories that can be told without the video being trimmed or edited. I have a couple of them. I'm trying to think. Okay, so like. For example, one video that I did recently was the video starts with my mom's bed in the middle of our pool and I have a knife and I poke it, and then she's deflating and she slowly falls into the water. The video has zero cuts. It's just like that. That's just a funny moment, um, and like, because I didn't do like, like special effects, that like sometimes, like you do special effects or sound effects or like a meme, effects that are popular now, that's that's gonna get outdated. In five, ten years or not even maybe in two years, those sound effects or whatever effects you're using could get outdated. So I think it's important to like focus on the actual content more than what you are doing in post-production. Pre-production and production matters more.
Darren Lee:Do you have like a content framework? Is there something that you break out Because you sit under like personal finance? That's kind of where you broadly sat, you know. How do you think about the content that falls under that? And how do you, how do you build that thesis? Like, let's go kind of super deep on that. Is there a content thesis that you build out that creates this ecosystem that you know? Then you can go create different videos off.
Jenny Hoyos:So like what is my framework for coming up with ideas, or my framework when I have the video and how I outline it?
Darren Lee:I would say before that so when you're starting let's say someone's starting a new channel, should they build a content framework that sits on that has like niches, sub niches, subtopics. How do you think about that?
Jenny Hoyos:Oh, my goodness, I love this question. Yeah, when you're starting a channel, the best thing you can do is start in a niche and niche down as much as possible. And a lot of people think, oh, but if I do something like woodworking for women, I'm only going to get like a thousand views, because how many women are woodworking Like? My video isn't going to get any views because there is no big audience for it. That's not how it works at all. It's it's quite the opposite. Because there's such a small audience for it and no one else is doing that.
Jenny Hoyos:I don't, at least I don't think it's going to be very easy for youtube to find the audience. Because it is such a small, specific audience. Youtube is going to want to show it to those people. So youtube will actually have or any platform platforms are pretty, all platforms are smart um, they will have an easy time finding that audience. If you're like very specific with who you want to reach. So that is like the number one thing know who your specific avatar is and what kind of content you will make.
Darren Lee:That will be able to attract that viewer are you familiar with noah morris and his sas platform that finds these niches? I've heard of it. Yes, I had him on my podcast, yeah, in bali, and he basically is looking for opportunities that are underserved, so, let's say, would work for women and then have high demand. So there's a ton of demand that people are searching for it. So there's like an equilibrium and an off-balance equilibrium, so you have a very good opportunity to get in there and grow in there very quickly. And that's how he's exploring faceless channels and how he's kind of finding those gems continuously. How do you, how do you think about that? Because, like the average person who starts does not have this knowledge of, like market equilibrium whereby you have supply and demand. They don't understand that initially, right?
Jenny Hoyos:yeah, it's definitely tough to find that. Um, honestly, for me, I think what's really good, really good place to start is see if you have, for one unfair advantage um, there's a book about this where it's like, basically, what is something that you are super good at or you have a lot of experience in and it's going to be really easy for you to start making content there? Hopefully, whatever that thing is, there is that supply and demand, but let's say you have no experience in anything, or the thing you do have experience in has too much supply and not enough demand. Then, honestly, I would pick what you're passionate about and then think of ways that you can make it specific.
Jenny Hoyos:So, for me, when I first started my channel, I really liked finance because I was studying it in college. So I was like, oh, I want to do something in finance, but that's very broad, and I didn't have an unfair advantage because I was still studying it. I wasn't, oh, I want to do something in finance, but like that's very broad and and I didn't have an unfair advantage because I was still studying I wasn't like some guru and I wasn't rich. So I was like, okay, let's like niche this down. So it's like I like finance and it's going to be for teens, so that's already niche, because not a lot of teens like it, and it's going to be me learning with everyone, so it's like okay. So it's like finance is a really big topic, but people don't usually do it in a way where they're trying to learn with the audience, and especially not for teens. And that's kind of how like I found my thing how do you translate that?
Darren Lee:so what's your framework for helping people go zero to one so they build out their niche? What's our next step from there to walk through that life, that life cycle?
Jenny Hoyos:I'm trying to think how specific to get, because at a big scale, like in the macro at least, what I did, um, and it depends, tell me if this is aligned with your audience, like for me, I wanted to. I wanted to conquer niche by niche or like slowly expand, where I noticed like, um, I was like doing my research and recon and noticed like, okay, if I'm getting a hundred thousand views in this niche, like I'm crushing it. So then, when I was like averaging a hundred thousand views, I'm like, okay, now let me expand to, um, like broader and broader versions of finance. So first I started with with uh, investment videos, but then I went to like side hustles, which is very broad, and then I went to slide hustles and saving money. And then I went to just like saving money in general, which is like literally anyone and everyone, um, until eventually it just became general entertainment content where the main character is a cheapskate and it's like anyone can watch that.
Jenny Hoyos:So at a macro, that's that's what I did, um, but I think, like, think I hate to say this because I would always get mad at this advice but it's so true that you kind of do have to just throw a spaghetti at the wall and see what works, random things and hoping that it sticks with an audience. What I did instead was when I first started out, I did like almost basically the same video format and it would be different topics, but let's say it was side hustles. It would be a bunch of different side hustles. The scripting format would be exactly the same but I would do the hook differently. Just the hook to see which hook had the highest viewers to swipe away or had you know the highest, and then, okay, we mastered the hook. Now we keep that and then we change little things to script until eventually it's like this is the framework that works.
Darren Lee:we're going to keep doing this and the logic here is that, like quality precedes quantity, like you have to get to the point whereby you're doing enough quantity to understand what quality is. Because we can all look at a video and think, oh, like that, that's great, it's top performing. But you can't deconstruct that if you look at a top performing podcast or a clip unless you've done the reps. So that's an amazing point, right? I think, for people that in the beginning, especially the beginning of their channel, they're so worried about how the camera looks, the light looks and everything. At the end of the day, they need execution, they need reps and saying the lines, running the videos, editing the videos, and at that point you can slow down and say, okay, this sucked, I'll make this better, I'll make that process better.
Darren Lee:So what made sure your refinement process because I think that's something I really observed by you is that you're you're like a scientist, right, you're looking at these things and you're you're improving them, but ideally, when you were in the beginning, like how did you refine those videos? You're moving out the hook. Is there anything else you're doing? Because, from a podcast perspective, it's very hard to refine a video without putting in a lot of episodes, because you can't really see what videos are sticking and you can't decode them as to why they're working or not working yeah, that's a good question.
Jenny Hoyos:Yeah, that makes sense, because with podcast clips, it's not like you can reuse the same scripting format, because the clips are just going to be like they're all going to be different structures. Is what you're saying.
Darren Lee:And the guests are different.
Jenny Hoyos:It's not dependent on you Sometimes your questions for sure, how you speak for sure, but it's so multifactorial, basically I think it could be worth posting the same clip and editing it in different ways, um, or testing different things, like even on my channel, and no one actually knows. No one actually knows. Because, no, like, because because only you know a lot of the things that you're doing, but, like, there are so many videos that I would post it and then, like, after a few minutes or even an hour, I'm like, oh shoot, the hook is doing bad like, let me private it, change this up and repost it and and nothing bad ever happens, at least when I do it. As long as you don't do it like too often, you still let the video breathe. It's totally okay to pull down a video and repost it.
Jenny Hoyos:Um, there is one video that was like, absolutely like and this was crazy to me because it's one of my biggest videos like after one hour it was a 10 of 10. I can't remember exactly like what the the numbers were, but I just remember I was like, wow, like, this video is like, the retention was horrible, um, so I privated it and then I um, changed the, the way the hook was. We added like something to the hook because, and then because it was like a low view versus swipe away. And then, um, you reposted it one hour later. The video was a one of 10, um, and I think it had like 10 extra views what?
Darren Lee:okay, we can get into as well the changing of titles and thumbnails, like how does that work, especially for long form and short form? But specifically on the hook, so I think we're at the point now in 2024 where people know we need a good hook, but there's obviously levels to the game. Right, there's, there's complete different levels. So how do you think about what's a super viral video hook versus something that's just quite standard, like how do you view that? How do you, how do you build that into your, your scripting and your content writing?
Jenny Hoyos:first things, first, the best hooks don't have a hook, which is like kind of a weird thing to say. But I used to think in my videos I need to start by saying exactly what I'm going to do and then start the video. But in actuality, it's better to start the video immediately and in the point that you are starting in it is enough context to understand what's going to go down, if that makes sense. I don't think anyone does this and I think that this is at least I hope people don't do it Like, for example, a podcast clips you don't want to like be like oh, okay, I'm, I'm interviewing this person and I'm about to ask them the craziest. Like no, just ask the question. Like just start with the insane question that you were going to ask them, or start with the most insane moment. So that's number one thing. Like, the best hooks aren't even a Hulk. Like the video already started. But then, even so, how do you know where you start the video?
Jenny Hoyos:For me, there's three things that I. There's a, there's a three point, or there's there's three things that I check off on my checklist, which is number one. It needs to have shock. Ideally it's visual, because people see quicker than they hear. But it needs to be something that just completely throws them off, like they just scrolled into wait, what did I just see? Or what did I just hear? Like it needs to completely throw them off, um.
Jenny Hoyos:And then it needs to set a clear expectation so, um, for example, if you are going to be cooking, you need to be in the kitchen, like if you were like starting outside for the hook and then you went inside. It's confusing because then people are going to leave right after. It needs to be such a clear expectation of what they are going to get, um. And then also give a. Give the viewer a reason to watch until the end, like it needs to. There needs to be something that makes the viewer be so curious that they can't help but watch until the end to hear how a problem gets resolved or what the answer to the question is.
Darren Lee:How do you think about those open loops? So how do you script an open loop that comes back, that makes a viewer stay till the very end?
Jenny Hoyos:Yeah, that's a, it's a question because it's it's definitely difficult to do that. I guess it just comes back into shock. You don't want it to seem too vague because sometimes, if it's like, for example, I, when when I say like you need to give a reason to watch to the end, a lot of people say like you won't believe what happens at the end. Like what? Like I won't care to watch it to the end. Like what is that?
Darren Lee:you don't say that to someone when you meet them. You know I'm gonna tell you the story and you just stay to the end of this conversation to find out the rest of it. Right? That's not how humans interact. I think like that's. The best thing with videos is create a human interaction so you don't sound like a robot that's the number one thing.
Jenny Hoyos:It should feel like a conversation with the viewer, um, but, yeah, that the curiosity, yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. Like, how would you make someone curious? I think you need to be specific as to what's going to happen, but they don't know how that's going to happen. Um, it's really interesting. It's very similar because right now I'm working on, because I'm doing live streaming, so I've been making live stream clips recently, so it's like very similar psychology where it's like I'm repurposing content. I have to figure out how to make it work. But yeah, usually I just I'm trying to think which one is my favorite one.
Jenny Hoyos:Well, I mean, I guess it's like these aren't even that good of hooks, but like, for example, in one of them, the video starts with like me in bed. It's so confusing if you don't have the context. But like I'm laying in bed and I'm like we're going to have a disco party very soon. We just need 700 more subscribers, and that's what I said. Now it sounds like okay, but how is that hooking?
Jenny Hoyos:Well, there's a lot of shocking things going on. One, why am I saying that in bed? Two, why is she going to have a disco party and now she needs 700 more subscribers. Okay, so I just got completely thrown off and now I know that I need to watch it to the end. You're so thrown off that I guess you kind of want to watch till the end and be like this is so weird. I guess I do have to see, and you have the expectation that we have to wait for her to gain 700 subscribers, I guess that's interesting because it's it's complex but it's not too complex, right, it's not like you started a podcast with.
Darren Lee:It's not like you start a clip saying, hey, this is my new sass company and everyone's like what's sass nifflick off. It's something that people can relate to or they understand. So there's like an element here of like simplicity but also an open loop as a result. So there's a lot of stuff going on here. Tell me about environment.
Darren Lee:So one thing I've noticed myself, comparing it to podcasting, is that podcast clips can look really dry because you're just in a studio. So we just talked about earlier how the quality of production really matters. Like the plant in the back actually does matter. Now I joke in the beginning that it doesn't when you start out. But then you do need a fake plant in the back because the environment has to be really not on point and in line, but somehow it does. But when I watch your videos you know you're basically. I watched the latest one with your mom and there was the car driving and you had to see there's two boxes with two merch. How much time do you put into like setting up that environment? So like again, the shock factor is aligned to the storytelling, because that must be exhausting too at the same time. Right, you're like going around trying to find a perfect setting oh, my goodness, I love that.
Jenny Hoyos:You asked that because no one realizes how hard it is that is. You know it takes longer to find a place to film and to set it up than it does to film the video 100, and also small things like the lighting right.
Darren Lee:Like what camera? What camera do you use?
Jenny Hoyos:I just use my phone because relatability for sure.
Darren Lee:But if you use the like I'm looking at two very, very expensive sony cameras right now if I bring them outside, it's a shit show. Like I can't get the lighting correct, it's an absolute mess. It's too annoying, it's too difficult yeah, so as a result, that's why I'm so less inclined to do. I do some outdoor stuff, but it's like a hassle. I'm not. I know this sounds such like a princess, right, I sound like a princess, but it actually is a hassle.
Jenny Hoyos:It's so much more complicated yeah, it's so difficult, like, what people don't see is how many people are actually behind the scenes, like for that car video, for example, so like. So I had my dad and my brother helped film and then my brother is in the car and then my dad is the one behind the camera, monitoring all the three cameras, like, but then people just think it's just me and my mom there, because that's what they see, right, even in videos where people think there's no one behind, it's quite funny, like especially with my live streams, it's actually hilarious because it is just me. At least that's what people think. And then in front of me I just see like five people who are like monitoring, chat, like holding the camera, and it's so funny because, like they're laughing and I'm looking at them and I'm talking to them. But I think it helps with the interaction.
Jenny Hoyos:But anyway, yeah, the set matters so much, um, the the environment matters so much. You want to keep it simple and clean and even the colors matter so much. I mean, color theory is is huge can you explain that?
Jenny Hoyos:yeah, so the biggest thing for me because I have a very young audience is all the colors need to be vibrant and contrast and contrast is the the most important thing be vibrant and contrast and contrast is the the most important thing. I mean I'm not contrasting very well right now. Actually, you are contrasting very well with your environment, um, but yeah, like, for example, when I film my kitchen, we have to be very intentional with what we wear, because we have reddish brown kitchen cabinets, for example, and then if there's two characters, it needs to be like a triad color wheel. So if there's red, then that means I should wear blue and my mom should wear yellow.
Darren Lee:Um, so so I get that you're different colors. Yeah, so walk me through the color wheel there's.
Jenny Hoyos:If there's only two main colors in a scene, they're opposites from each other. So if you pull up a color wheel, yellow and blue are across from each other, like directly, like straight, and red and green are like directly straight across from each other. But when there's now three colors that you need to introduce, you need to get the color wheel and get a triangle. So you now have the three or the, the two across each other, the blue and the yellow. But then you also it turns to a triangle and that's how you pick the the two across each other, the blue and the yellow. But then you also it turns to a triangle and that's how you pick the, the next color it's. It's. It sounds complicated, but if you put an image it'd be very, it'd be very simple. But usually colors that are opposite from each other in the color wheel tend to like um, that's usually what they, because they contrast most. So that that is the most important thing for us to make sure that viewers can tell the difference.
Darren Lee:But even so, the color matters as well, depending on the mood that you're trying to give but let's give an example of that, because, or let's see how this breaks down, right, because let's say you have a um, a short, and it's you in your kitchen baking and the colors are set up or they're not set up. If that video was a 10 out of 10, would you look at that and think, okay, I need to change my shirt to make it green. Or like, how do you think about that? Because there's so like, there's so many variables, and I know that you're you are factoring in changes to the variables, but how do you know which variable is off?
Jenny Hoyos:that is an amazing question. Sometimes you just have to make your best, like or not even. Sometimes, most of the time, you make your best, educated guess. Um, for the most part, the shirt color won't affect performance, unless I will say, if the cabinets were red and I was wearing red, I do think that is a big problem, because now you're just blending in the color doesn't affect performance and I will say, to some extent the set won't affect performance, like you were saying.
Jenny Hoyos:But what I do think is things like that, especially the set, especially the set that's why it's so important are things that drive comments. That is why we pay very much attention to like what's visually happening and we want to um with. We want to be intentional as well as um I know we haven't brought this up, which is why I want to say it um with with anything. We want to be intentional about designing our comment section. We want to know what we want people to say and what we need to do to have people say that okay, wait, you need to go deeper into that.
Darren Lee:So what do you mean?
Jenny Hoyos:yeah, so one of the like almost every viral video has a strong comment section and for the most part, people usually comment the same thing, and there it's not coincidence that the most viral videos have a comment section that has the same thing being said. So, yeah, and not even just, there's a lot of things that come into it. So we don't just want to get comments just because comments gets views. Comments in itself doesn't get views. It's not like your video is going to blow up. You shouldn't tell people, oh, comments of this video can blow up. It's not going to make a video blow up, but getting people to comment could have them potentially rewatch the video or let it play out while they're leaving a comment.
Jenny Hoyos:Or, even cooler, if someone leaves a comment and they leave the app and someone replies to their comment, or you reply to the comment and they open up the app again just to respond to the person who responded to their comment. That's showing youtube. Oh, so they reopened the app or whatever problem. They reopened the app because of, because, because of their whoever, you, whoever, whoever it is, basically whoever the creator is, this person reopened the app um multiple times to reply in the comment section of this video. So, yeah, the comments is huge because of that reason. So you want to design the comment section by having Easter eggs or saying something or doing something that's going to emotionally maybe not trigger people, but spark people emotionally. It's going to hit them emotionally. That's what gets the comments.
Darren Lee:Do you want to grow and monetize your podcast but you don't know where to begin. Have you tried? But spark people emotionally. It's going to hit them emotionally. That's what gets the comments.
Darren Lee:For many years We've grown shows to over 100 million views and over 10 million downloads generated over $2 million in only the last year alone and we can help you grow and monetize your own podcast. We've had some shows go from absolutely zero. We've had some of the biggest influencers in the world come to us to help and improve their show. So if you want to learn exactly our podcast Grow Flywheel and exactly how we can do this for you and completely replicate success, schedule a call right down below myself and we can go through the exact model for you and to grow your podcast this year.
Darren Lee:If you look at Instagram specifically a lot of the viral videos they have a contrast in comments positive and negative and then there are people that are positive, triggered and negative people and vice versa, whereas I know for you and your demographic and the style of video and kind of who you are, you're not sparking controversy. So how do you do this? Because that seems that seems like the only way that I see that to go super parabolic. How do you think about it?
Jenny Hoyos:You can still spark controversy without being controversial. So, for example, I think this is a really good example. My videos are very childish, like okay, I just want to say this for all the listeners If you see my videos, I am a complete goofball, but it is because I know that's what gets the views. It's funny If you scroll to see my first videos on my my channel. It was very finance and technical, but anyway, um, yeah. So an example one of my recent videos that I sparked controversy was um, I did this hook.
Jenny Hoyos:Have you ever seen this trick? This is actually a very good visual hook. Have you ever seen the trick where you put a marshmallow in between oreos and then, like you, blow into it and then it like, expands, like you, like how oreo has cream. If you put a marshmallow in the middle of it and then, like you can, you can expand it and make it look like cream is expanding from the oreo basically okay, I think I actually yeah, I have, I have yeah so the video started with me like the video was about how to actually eat Oreos properly.
Jenny Hoyos:So I did that to get the visual shock from the viewer. And then I say but to eat Oreos properly, you need to remove the cream and then eat the cookie. So it's like I'm hooking the people who love the cream, clearly, because that's why the video. The video started with the cream growing and then I ended up just removing it and eating the cookie itself. And everyone in the comments are just like no way she really eats cookies without the cream, or oreo cookies, for example. Um, and I guess that's like almost again, that's like a, a simple, controversial yeah um, and I've noticed too with your.
Darren Lee:You had a video. It was a three dollar burrito from chipotle and if you ever know notice of the chipotle cult, there's some people that love it and some people actually hate it. It's just weird, right, it's just the way like brands are made. So the fact that you have a video that's like three dollar burrito, people are like, oh, you shouldn't spend 14 on a burrito, but at the same time people are like, oh, this is a great hack to have the same quality. So that in itself is enough controversy without having to say something like ridiculous on the internet.
Jenny Hoyos:Basically, yeah, I think the key thing as well is just having an unpopular opinion. Sometimes I don't even have that unpopular opinion, but I'll do it. Like in one video I nonchalantly ate popcorn with ketchup but like, like it could be argued that you could do that. I would never do that, but I knew people would say something what was the context of that video? Um, pov eating while watching a movie, and then it's like the the trailer's playing but, like you, finished all the food before the movie even started.
Darren Lee:Basically, okay, I was eating popcorn with ketchup uh, I want to ask you about the community side of it, because you you mentioned around how you're basically creating as a loyal community, that you get them involved. I saw this on your instagram, I think it was, and you mentioned around when you were getting to I don't know what it was like five million subscribers or whatnot.
Jenny Hoyos:You wrote everyone's name on the wall yes let's break down our philosophy, like what's happening there yeah, okay, so you're talking about the video or the live stream?
Darren Lee:uh, it was a live stream, I think it was okay, yeah, because the live stream is.
Jenny Hoyos:those live streams are huge for building community, like for context, just like this is my little hook I get a donation every 10 seconds on my live stream. How much are the?
Darren Lee:donations.
Jenny Hoyos:They're like a dollar. They're nothing crazy, but like. Every five seconds, that's so crazy, Like every five 10 seconds.
Darren Lee:How much dollars is that?
Jenny Hoyos:I think it's like a thousand an hour. Yeah, it's pretty small pretty small.
Darren Lee:So, oh my god, because it's like a minimum of like.
Jenny Hoyos:Not all people donate different amounts but yeah, for sure but yeah.
Jenny Hoyos:So it just didn't say I don't know why. Well, I do know why people are donating. I say I don't know why, but I know why. But yeah, basically, for as far as community people want to be involved, they want to control you or not, like? Okay, that sounds weird like they don't want to control you, but like they want to know that they are making a difference, basically. So, um, recently I've been doing a lot of live streams where I do something for every subscriber, or I do a custom thing for a subscriber, or cooking what my subscribers tell me. But yeah, those do amazing. So I mean, it's simple psychology People want to be involved.
Jenny Hoyos:So think of different ways they could be involved, and the best way they could be involved is just by hitting subscribe, because that's a simple thing that they can do. Our worst ones have been like when we tell them to do something like, like, comment, and I will do the thing, because you can't reply to like every comment, but like, if there's like for every like, if you have to do something for every subscriber, that's like pretty easy, like I'd say. If it's like jumping jacks, like, like and you can like, and you can basically every single one of them is valuable. That's what people want to feel, even beyond, besides the live stream, things like even conversion wise and we get subscriber pushes, or when we do subscriber pushes like the people want to feel, like them as an individual person, are making a difference and you need to think of ways that, like each individual viewer and person can making a difference, and you need to think of ways that, like each individual viewer and person can make a difference how do you do that?
Darren Lee:so I'll give you an example, just my own personal example. So when I have the us tour that we did, the call to action was like you know, if you enjoy all the effort that we're putting into making these episodes as like high quality and highly like production as possible, please subscribe so that we can help other more people every single week, because then they're paired up like a flywheel that then if it helps them with this video, this video is to help other people. So that's the kind of quality action and if you have ever read, influenced by robert cialdini, he points out that when there's a rationale between the ask so can I get? So if you're in Starbucks and you ask can I go in front of you, he will say no, go away. But if I say can I go in front of you because I have to get to a meeting, you're like, yeah, no problem, go ahead. So it's the justification of the action that if you just have a justification, people will generally just do it genuinely.
Jenny Hoyos:Yeah, no, definitely. I think that's a very good example. One of the best examples that I've ever heard was in diary of a CEO. I remember it because this is what made me subscribe. Basically, he said Steven Butler said something along the lines of like, please subscribe, because, as you can see, the more subscribers we have, the bigger that the podcast guests get. So subscribing will really help get the attention of these bigger influences and we can make better podcasts. And I'm like, huh, yeah, if I subscribe, then, yeah, maybe he can get.
Jenny Hoyos:Like, I love his podcast, I want to get someone who's even more famous so I can listen to that, that interview. So making it more part of a movement and, but at a lower scale, something that I've been helping or I've helped one of my clients with is it's sometimes it's even with the language that you use, so he does a lot of self-development and self-development content. We have him say something along the lines of like, um, like, oh, you should be doing x, just like my subscribers have been doing for the last few months, or um, something that shows that like, oh, the subscribers have been part, like they, they've been known about, even though, even though they haven't like, we just have him say something along those lines of um, the subscribers have known about this and have been doing this makes it sound like, oh, there's a community that I need to be part of, so I don't I, I can be the person of these tips yeah, it's like a cult.
Darren Lee:Basically, you want to be, you're basically bringing them into your, your ecosystem and, as a result, you're enabling them to be part of part of the tribe yes, you want them to feel like, well, it is a community, but you, you want them to feel.
Jenny Hoyos:You want them to actually feel it. You don't just want to say it's a community, but actually let them feel. Even recently, I started a discord server so everyone can talk to each other. So there's actually, there's actually a community. It's not just, it's not just. Uh, oh, you guys are just subscribers.
Darren Lee:I guess 100. You want to hear something so cool about that. When I built our, our community, it's so it's very small, right. Going back to Pat Flynn, it's the power of small communities. But because they're all podcasters, they all actually interview each other on their own show and I never, I never, even, I never suggested it, never even thought about it. And then over time, they've all popped up on different people's shows and it's amazing, right, because that's the power of bringing people together, especially when they're aligned to the same mission. And what's funny is they're all in different niches, like they're different age, demographics or different niches, but they found similarities in the content, in the style and everything. So that's pretty cool, right? So let's go a little bit deeper. On titles and thumbnails, am I correctly saying that on, you have your own specific thumbnails for shorts, or how does that work? Because they look very aesthetic.
Jenny Hoyos:You do not have it, but I'm part of a beta program.
Darren Lee:Okay, I was wondering I was wondering. I'm in the club. You're not in the club.
Jenny Hoyos:Yeah, our thumbnails are just aesthetically pleasing. They don't really do much. Thumbnails don't matter on shorts. Thumbnails are just aesthetically pleasing. They don't really do much. Thumbnails don't matter on shorts. 99.99 percent of your views are going to come on the shorts feed when people are scrolling, so they won't even see your thumbnail.
Jenny Hoyos:Um really thumbnail does not matter, yeah, but title to some extent does. It kind of doesn't, but it kind of does, because even if someone's scrolling, they can still, um, they could still see the title because it's like on the bottom. But the key thing for me as far as titles is keeping it as short as possible, because the longer it is, or the bigger it is, the more space it takes up because it starts turning into double lines, triple lines and now it's covering the actual video. Um, so keeping it as short as possible while um giving good, while complementing the actual video. So just like we have a hook, that like. So, let's say, you're saying as you're, you're starting in your podcast clip, you're already starting with um, you're already talking, and then you have a, a hook, title text that that shows like what's going to come at the end. Um, the title should further comp. It's kind of like that, like it should further complement the video. Um, without saying you won't believe what's going to happen at the end, it's going to say something that.
Darren Lee:That that's a little more clear, but basically says that the way I think about it that's so interesting because I would have thought that a title is super, super important because on the youtube home feed you have a. You have a is super, super important because on the YouTube home feed you have a horizontal section that's for shorts, so you can scroll across on desktop. So and I've often just seen, just like you know, the importance of the title there I've been keeping them very short, very succinct, like generally less than like 30, 40 characters, because they truncate right. It goes dot, dot, dot.
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Jenny Hoyos:Yeah, but the difference is, if it was like usually with like, let's say, if it was like a long form that you're titling, let's say you're doing a challenge, it wouldn't work as a short to say the whatever it's called challenge Because it's like, well, well, there's, there's no reason. I mean, I guess there's a reason to watch because it's like the challenge, but like it's better to be visually showing that challenge and then say something like I almost died during this challenge. Like say something that basically tells you that something cool is going to happen at the end without telling you. Well, I said it's a good example, so I was a little more specific.
Darren Lee:That's so interesting. You can link long form video to short form now, do you advise that or not?
Jenny Hoyos:Like get people to go from short to long form.
Darren Lee:Yes, so you can link a video and there's lots of different skills are taught that it works. It doesn't work. It decreases reach, like. What's your thoughts on that?
Jenny Hoyos:I mean, if you're trying to push viewers to a long form podcast and it's like a clip directly from the podcast, you have to, you have to link it. Um, the conversion rate I have found is not like super insane. Um, like, I think my best one has been like one percent, but like the average is like like it's like 0.1 percent conversions. Conversions are not amazing, but you know what you'll take, what you can get. Um, but if, if a video is not like, if it is not repurposed, if it's like its own standalone thing, then I wouldn't, I wouldn't be pushing a long form or I wouldn't be like going out of my way to create a trailer to promote the long form through shorts, because the conversions aren't that great anyway. It's more of something like, if there's a chance and it's, it's like a good opportunity, you might as well, but it's not, it doesn't convert very well I would think so as well.
Darren Lee:In terms of it just doesn't make sense, because my idea this is that the consumption is different, right, it's like tiktok brain versus long form brain and it's almost like people are on shorts to watch shorts like they want to watch a long.
Jenny Hoyos:They would have clicked on a long form so?
Darren Lee:So what do you think the workflow is? So let's say, someone opens up YouTube. Do you think they're opening up YouTube to land on the Shorts page or to land on the Home page? Because, just for me, I don't really use Shorts in terms of consumption. Obviously, I create Shorts, but I don't really always use it. So how do you think about the workflow? Because if people land on the YouTube homepage on their mobile, are they just going straight to shorts? And how do you?
Jenny Hoyos:think about that Definitely depends on the audience. I mean, everyone's different. It's really funny because I realized it like when one of my little, little, little little cousins it's like six years old like saw me watching a long form and they're like oh, what is this? I didn't know. Youtube had horizontal videos.
Jenny Hoyos:They didn't say horizontal but, they basically said I didn't know they had like long videos, and I'm like, what do you mean? Like, oh, I thought they were just like your phone, you know. So it's shocking, because to me it's like like that's crazy, I think. So it definitely depends on the viewer.
Jenny Hoyos:I will say, um, the older, the demographic they tend to do like, you know, those those longer form videos. But yeah, it's definitely I think it depends on the, the viewers mood, when they're going onto the, the onto the app. So something I will say is, if someone is on shorts, like there could be someone who watches both right, and they're on shorts and they see the clip and it's directing to a long form video, maybe they don't convert, but what? Because because they're in the shorts brain, but what they can do or would probably do is okay, let me click into this, put on my watch later, because right now I'm in short spring, but later I might want to listen to this in the background, or so that's actually why we focus on youtube specifically for podcasts, because we had so much discovery.
Darren Lee:Just impressions are just a thousand times higher than spotify on our audio. Um, and then, by virtue of that, becoming top of funnel, people will listen when they're cleaning their care, when they're in the gym, when they're on a walk, in their own audio native platform. But you just stay top of mind with youtube. So it's like sometimes we're not optimizing for views on youtube, we're optimizing just for, like basic impressions and then people will consume on other platforms later because, you know, a four hour podcast they might not be able to get to. Does that make sense?
Jenny Hoyos:um, the key thing is okay it's like in marketing, someone doesn't see a commercial once and then they buy the product. Yeah, I think it's. It's, they have to see it. On average, I think it was like at least six times. I could be wrong, I think it was at least six times, um, but it was some, some, some high number.
Jenny Hoyos:So I I kind of think of it that same way, where it's like, you know, even if someone doesn't directly go to the video or directly click on the link to watch the full version, it's still good if they become a loyal shorts viewer or they're just watching your shorts and then one day they run into your long form or one day they're on spotify and they notice oh wait, same person I always watch on shorts is actually, um, I forgot they had a podcast like, like it's funny because a lot of people, like they see the clips but they don't go. Sometimes they might not like it, might it might not like, they might not think about, like actually just watching the thing, until one day they're they, they realize like, oh yeah, this is the person I always watch. I should give it a shot yeah, what's funny there is?
Darren Lee:I often meet people, especially in bali, because you have a lot of creators, and they always say like, oh, look, I've seen your podcast, and I'm like, oh, look, what have you seen? They're like, oh, I just see the clips and I'm like, yeah, perfect, because that's how they discover right. You see the clips of the guests.
Jenny Hoyos:They may know the guest or whatnot sports is great for discoverability and just like getting big reach and that suits me perfectly fine.
Darren Lee:You know, you don't need to sit down and listen to a two-hour podcast to be able to connect with someone. You can actually just use the clip as an anchor effectively. Have you heard? This is very early days, but have you heard that spotify might be bringing shorts into the spotify platform?
Jenny Hoyos:I do not know that. I don't know what that's gonna look like they started it for artists right now.
Darren Lee:So the top performing like musicians or whatever, they can release shorter clips of their music as like a feed.
Darren Lee:So the logic is youtube music has that youtube music has that, but on spotify specifically they're they followed youtube. So I've been really deep down as Robert Hull, whereby Spotify was always a terrible platform, especially for podcasts. It was always awful for impressions, for discovery it was terrible. And then they've been chasing YouTube so the discovery got better. If I click on my account, I see like impressions of my podcast and the number. It seems fake, like it's just like a really high number of impressions. It seems fake. But then in video and video came in I was like, oh, we're just gonna upload a video, whatever. But next the logic is they're going to start bringing in shorts and if they do, we'll be, you know, pretty well positioned to kind of go all in on that. But I don't know, I just feel like that. I just feel like it's not as good as youtube. I don't know why oh, a thousand percent.
Jenny Hoyos:And people don't. People aren't going to spotify to watch like watch videos yeah, yeah, it's so true, right, it's a different viewing experience, different behaviors and different platforms tell me about the uh, the monetization site.
Darren Lee:So you mentioned the one dollar every like 10 seconds, which is absolutely crazy for your video. That is 161 million short. Our views on shorts. How much does a video like that generate?
Jenny Hoyos:I believe that one has generated a little over five thousand dollars.
Darren Lee:It's not, it's not that much so the reason why I asked is because when I when I spoke to pat yesterday, he has one video that has 15 million views on a Pokemon channel on long form and it did $72,000. Yeah so crazy, right?
Darren Lee:Oh my goodness. So like that's the difference between long form versus short form. So what do you think as a result? Do you look at ad revenue as like a just a happy coincidence that happens on the side, or do you not really consider it like? What do you think about from the from building a business perspective?
Jenny Hoyos:adsense is.
Jenny Hoyos:I pretend it doesn't exist same, exact same, exact same, exact same like it kind of sucks to say because I love youtube and it's not their fault, it's not youtube's fault, it's advertisers aren't putting the money to short form content. Um, because why it is? It's a lot harder to to get people to to buy from one ad that they see in between every 10 shorts. So I understand from an advertiser perspective. Um, yeah, yeah, adsense is not great. So for monetization, I focus on external things. Um, and my pride.
Jenny Hoyos:Okay, I have two ones that are like they're like neck to neck. Every month they like surpass each other. So it's like it's definitely, it's definitely funny. But I would say for most creators, the number one way to monetize is through brand deals and sponsorships, but not just from a creator perspective, but from a consultant perspective. So the way I explain it is the best ads. Ads commercials for the longest time have always been 30 seconds On TV. They've always been 30 seconds on TV. They've always been 30 seconds right, and shorts just so happened to be perfect for that. So I actually find that short form advertisements are more effective than long form advertisements. I mean, I know long format of sponsorships are more popular right now, but the truth is, when someone promotes a like long form sponsorship. They're probably doing some sort of challenge. And then they then they spot and then they market like a stock app, like how does that?
Jenny Hoyos:even make sense Like it's completely two different things versus like on shorts, from the bat off the bat, you can already like the whole video could just be an ad and you can start with with um giving value about the company.
Jenny Hoyos:I mean the the box video that you were talking about. I mean that whole video is literally just a commercial um just talking about dot store domains. So right now there's a huge opportunity where short form sponsorships are actually getting paid much better than long form, for the simple fact that you can make it a dedicated commercial. Granted, if in long form you are doing like your whole video is just about the product, that's a different story. But most people don't do that. Most people do their own video and they slot in about the product. But, yeah, that is the best way to monetize right now. And then um on top of that so you promote it on your on your page and then you also give them usage rights for for an extra, extra fee, of course, to run ads behind it. And if the ads are doing good, then they're going to keep paying you every month so that they can license that content hold on.
Darren Lee:that's super interesting because we're doing exactly this in the podcast space. We have a huge advertising arm in the business, like a very large part of the business, and I would say it's because the market hasn't caught up to placing ads on podcasts. They don't really know pricing that much, so walk me through the process there whereby they run ads on the back end of the ad already. How does that work?
Jenny Hoyos:yeah. So there's a lot of ways that it can work, but for the most part, I post a video on my page and then I tell a brand like hey, do you want to run ads on it and give it a shot for seven days? Um, and if it does well, then you'll pay me x amount per month usually it's 30 of what the video costed for it to get posted on my channel. Um, and yeah, right, when you do something like that, they are able to leverage your audience because you're posting on your page, but then, as far as ads, they're leveraging your name and likeness and the fact that people trust you that's super interesting.
Darren Lee:Okay, so they run it on their budget. They pay you an extra fixed fee, and then you don't, because they're using your name and likeness.
Jenny Hoyos:Yeah but you don't take any commission no okay no, I mean you can negotiate anything right for sure, um, or you could even get equity in a company.
Darren Lee:But yeah, I, I tend to just uh do a flat monthly rate and it's so funny to see to see you talk about, like building equity in these companies and you're so young doing this Like it's crazy. You're like, yeah, I'm just going to take an equity stake in this company. It's crazy to see that progress right Like when I was literally 19, 18, 19, when I was in high school. I was still in high school and I was just partying all the time. So that's so wild to hear.
Jenny Hoyos:Yeah, I mean, I was born into a family of entrepreneurs, so I've just, I like, started learning about finance and business when I was like 10 years old. So it's just like it's just engraved, I guess.
Darren Lee:Tell me about, like personally on this. So do you find that a lot of this adds pressure to you, like producing so much content that has any impact on you? Like you know a lot of this adds pressure to you, like producing so much content that has any impact on you. Like you know, a lot of people talk about like impact on like mental health and all that kind of stuff with producing so much of this content. So it's because it's so public. Do you ever feel like that's a? That's the thing you need to fight with honestly no, because I love it.
Jenny Hoyos:I mean awesome, I mean I love it. And it's interesting because when I first started I guess you say like a bit of a quick backstory like my goal and my goal right now my goal has always been, and is right now, to become a billionaire. I was an entrepreneur first. I was doing a bunch of side hustles. I was helping my family with their business, um, and I was. I was trying to make money however I can. I was learning about stock market. I did day trading when I was like 15.
Jenny Hoyos:It's like I always was like trying to be like a billionaire, like that was always my goal, um, and I was trying a bunch of different things until, like, I watched a youtube video about like saying how you need to do something that you're passionate about and you will make the most money. You do something you're passionate about. I was like, well, how do you know what you're passionate about? And then they said, like, think about the things that you always want to do as a kid, or things that you did as a kid.
Jenny Hoyos:Or people always said that you could have been and I'm like, oh, okay, well, I'm gonna try out YouTube, but I'm still gonna be doing all this other stuff on the side and just document my journey on YouTube, and I wasn't trying to like make money on YouTube. I was like trying to do it as like, as a passion project and if it worked then it. Then it worked. So it's like I'm coming into this with a business mindset and my goal, my goal is like to build some sort of huge business that's a billion dollars, but the first step to get there, I genuinely think, is through content, because if you build an audience and you have insane reach, you could do whatever you know how to market Everyone's bear in mind.
Darren Lee:I don't think you realize this, but all like founders', biggest bottleneck is sales and marketing. So if you know how to do that already, because you've grown up with it and you've also succeeded with it in an insane level then you just need to build the right product.
Jenny Hoyos:That's basically it. That's just it.
Darren Lee:You just need to build the right product, but that's not a problem anymore, though you know, like 10 years ago you'd need 100 employees to do that.
Darren Lee:now you need a few ai agents that just run around the internet and just create stuff and yeah you might need a few people, but I just mean, like your biggest ball, you don't actually have a bottleneck and genuinely, because I come from a software background, you actually have no bottleneck because you can find the right partner to build something I was just about to say that, because with the right reach now it's like oh well, how do I build it?
Jenny Hoyos:I have the reach, but how do I build the product with your reach?
Darren Lee:you can use that reach to find the person to build the product and you partner with them so that's why I love daniel's approach, daniel bitten's approach, because they have creole, which is a short form yes app mobile or desktop app and then they have their coaching offer and then they're helping people get into short form, not failing like keeping them accountable, and then the guys use the platform together so they work side by side and then it just grows. Same with Noah Noah documents everything. He has the receipts for his own faceless channels, and then he has his SaaS company that makes you find the faceless channels, and then he has his sas company that makes you find the faceless channels to go after increasing success. So that's all you got to do is just help the people that are in your community succeed and have a more streamlined approach, and you can tell already like I actually love the logic with this because it all fits together, it's not separate, it's all one ecosystem and it all just starts with you knowing your craft right.
Darren Lee:So all those videos of like you writing on the wall and knocking down walls in your house, and everything, it all contributes to the business. That's what I think Exactly. Everything works in alignment. We just need to choose, need to tread that line together and have them all combined after a while yeah, and, and you can make money however, like, however you want.
Jenny Hoyos:And it's actually interesting because, like I was thinking that myself, I'm like I think there's so many different businesses. You can start with reach. I think you could do any business with reach. Like I don't think that you can't. I don't think there's there's a business that you can't do think about this, right?
Darren Lee:So the most famous mom and pop shops you know like, maybe like nail salons or laundries or whatnot, the ones that have like crushed it, have like a TikTok presence. You know, they do some like crazy, like, hey, this is how I got the wine out of these sheets, this is exactly what I use. Here's the video. And then, as a result, in their local market, everyone comes to them. So it's very interesting, right? Even those offline businesses, when they have an online presence, that's just like fun, entertaining, educational, they absolutely crush it as a result. And it's such an interesting dilemma to look at, because if you know that, whatever you want to do, whatever platform you want to go to, it'll take you what like four months to learn a new platform if you went completely dry, and at that point, it's the same elements of psychology, consistency, volume, quality, just with a different object yeah, it's all about viewer psychology.
Jenny Hoyos:It sounds so cliche, but like replace the word algorithm with audience, because the algorithm is just an ai imitating the audience.
Darren Lee:Huh that's so interesting, that's wild to think about. So at the end of the day, it's just about how do you find your ideal audience on a platform?
Jenny Hoyos:yeah, and then you serve back to a review yeah, it's all about what we talked about in the beginning knowing who you want to speak to and how you can find that viewer. What can you say that would get that viewer? What kind of jokes would that viewer understand? What kind of songs do the that does that viewer listen to and like really understanding it?
Darren Lee:and that's how you get that person before we finish what's the next step for you now? What are you planning over the next couple of months? Where do you want to see?
Jenny Hoyos:all of this pan out. Yeah, so I'm actually helping creators go viral as well. I'm doing a program on December 1st very soon where, for 21 days, I will help creators go viral. I'm going to provide them with daily video lessons and it's going to have a group community with live weekly calls and just one big group community, uh, trying to go viral. All together, um offered only 210 dollars 21 days. Um, usually I offer a thousand. I do consulting calls for a thousand dollars an hour, so this is an absolute steal and I just want to help as many creators as possible.
Darren Lee:For sure. So why do you think that's more beneficial than people going through it on their own, like being part of the community?
Jenny Hoyos:I mean, not only are you going to get advice from me, but everyone else is also going through the exact same journey, so they know exactly what it feels and they're also learning everything as well. So maybe, if you didn't pick something up, maybe they did and they can give you advice in your channel as well. And it's just great to have a support crew next to you.
Darren Lee:It makes it much, much more fun yeah, we've been doing the exact same thing. We've had a ton of people go through our program. The biggest thing that they've got from it is being able to work with other people and they get feedback. So it's kind of like if people are struggling with short form scripting, storytelling, other people also struggle from it. So there's the accountability they're going to learn as well. That's the benefit of doing it, and on top of that, then they can solve the problem. So I think that's the beauty of it. So it's like a 21 day boot camp. You solve your specific problem and you have other people doing it too. So I think like that's the main benefit of doing it as well yeah, a thousand percent.
Jenny Hoyos:You took the words right out of my mouth 100, so I'm going to link that down below.
Darren Lee:So, specifically, like the first line, you're going to be able to like join a program, get early access. We'll have this out as well, you know, in with enough time in November so people can actually sign up. But I 100% recommend it because what you've taught me over the past two years just from watching a few YouTube videos here or there when you pop up, has been enough to improve my content like a hundred times over. So having dedicated access to you is already going to be. It's going to be insane, yeah, it's going to be insane.
Jenny Hoyos:Yeah, it's going to be amazing. This is. This is so much fun. Thank you so much for having me.