Kickoff Sessions

#255 Logan Forsyth - How the Top 1% of Creators Make Their Money

• Darren Lee • Episode 255

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Content made your favourite creator your favourite.

It wasn’t the flashy editing or the funky sounds.

It’s the message they deliver:

  • Alex Hormozi
  • Iman Gadzhi
  • Dan Koe

This has developed a cult-like following. Coupled with a crazy amount of reps. The volume + quality makes them a category of one.

I spoke with Logan Forsyth to break down how top creators generate millions of dollars and views. Logan is behind a lot of your favourite creators. Scaling up thousands of posts a month generating billions of views.

Our second podcast is a deep-dive into:

  • Psychology of content
  • Opportunity for 2025
  • Undeniable offers
  • Content systems
  • Branding

If you want to build a content business that works for you in 2025, this podcast is for you.


Connect with Logan Forsyth
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/loganforsyth

My Socials:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/darrenlee.ks
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-lee1


(00:00) Preview and Intro
(00:35) Why Every Creator Needs an Offer
(03:09) Entertainment vs. Educational Content
(08:54) Patreon for Monetisation
(11:11) Content Creation for Business Owners
(15:18) Niche Content Targeting
(18:36) Organic Reach vs. Paid Ads
(20:13) The Evolution of Short-Form Content
(27:22) How Algorithms Level the Playing Field
(29:27) Evolving Content to Match Audience Maturity
(33:30) The Balance Between Polarization and Brand Risk
(39:40) Building Systems for Content Success
(43:12) Logan Forsyth’s Monetization Strategies
(46:18) Why Free Content Works 
(52:06) Tools and Systems for Engagement Tracking
(54:19) Founding Media Scaling
(59:45) Balancing Quality and Creativity in Content
(01:03:14) Adding Personality to Your Content
(01:06:51) Aligning Values with Business Practices]
(01:08:36) The Role of Storytelling in Short-Form Content
(01:11:49) The Future of Media Scaling

Support the show

Logan Forsyth:

A lot of creators who have larger audiences and make content. They make no money because they rely on AdSense and brand deals and that's been what's taught as like the traditional path. That's how to become a creator and it's so bad when it comes to making money. I like going the organic route when it's more so, just to get as much reach and traffic as possible, and with ads you want to be more traffic lead conversion driven. That way you are having an ROI come from. But again, it's like the biggest companies in the world as well Majority of their marketing and ad budgets go to brand because they have the money to spend and they know it's the better longer term play.

Darren Lee:

Before we start this podcast, I have one little favor to ask you. Can you please hit the subscribe button down below so we can help more people every single week, thank you. So since we last spoke, a lot has obviously changed, a lot of improving, a lot is adjusting, as always. What do you think is still like the biggest opportunity right now in 2024?

Logan Forsyth:

for my company or for anyone for creators, for creators, yeah, um, it's really having your own offer, first, being a creator and creating content, and then, secondly, having an offer to sell, because there's a lot of creators who have larger audiences and make content, but they make no money because they rely on AdSense and brand deals and that's been what's taught as the traditional path. That's how to become a creator, and it's so bad when it comes to making money. Right, and you have to make money for this to become a full-time thing, for you to become the best creator, the best personal brand, and so you need a great offer to sell, and that's what a lot of the creator market is missing. And then also there's the other side of business owners. And it's still so early, so untapped. There are so many business owners out there who have not started creating content yet and they need to.

Logan Forsyth:

It's not really even optional today, it's more so required. It's like the new modern day business card and the argument is like there are people out there it's like, yeah, but my business does 50 million a year. I don't create content. No, no, so I am. I'm like, yeah, but if you were, you'd probably be at 100. It's like you're leaving a lot of money on the table. I promise you. It's like when you have a personal brand and you create content for your business, you have an offer to sell. It becomes hard not to make money when you do it right.

Darren Lee:

For the creator side. It's super interesting because that was never thought up until maybe, like Hermosi, that you should have an offer on the back end. So all these creators end up being huge accounts 1 million, 2 million or even like 500 000. So a huge account and literally zero money a month. Right, things are going to come off the wrong way.

Logan Forsyth:

No, I've connected with a lot of creators who have millions of followers or subscribers and I'm telling you like, um, they're making 3 000 a month from their their socials 5 000 a month and they have peak months. But it ebbs and flows. That's also the thing when you rely on AdSense and brand deals for your income. You have so many peaks and so many troughs. It's very cyclical. One month you're up, the next month you're down, and so I've talked to creators who have big followings that are like, yeah, my best month.

Darren Lee:

I made $80,000. This month I made three. It's like that's crazy swing if you can't build a business around that because you have no predictability. So I would put it down to like the authority as well. Like in terms of creating the offer in the back end, like you need to have a strong authority in that niche. So, whether it's like finance business, like those are strong niches that you'd have a good authority, versus like relationships, which would be harder to build authority. Now question for you off that is like these creators who have the huge audiences, are they?

Darren Lee:

more on the entertainment side versus the education side, which is why they boomed like huge on TikTok, but then very little cult following being built.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, it's easier to build a larger following when you're more entertainment driven. Majority of people are on social media to be entertained, not to be educated, unfortunately, I wish it was the uh, the opposite, um, and so it's easier to generate views because, also, entertainment is mass market. Everyone likes entertainment, everyone likes to look at something that's enjoyable, that makes them laugh, um, and so informational based creators generally have less of a following size. If you're comparing, like the two presidents of, like the information side and the entertainment side is like Mr Beast on the entertainment and Alex Ramosi on the information, right, both have big followings, but Mr Beast is colossal on a following size level compared to Alex Ramosi. Just because of that basis alone. It's entertainment versus information. But it depends on your goals and what you want. Like who do you even want to be known to? Right, like Alex Ramosi focuses on business content, so if you're not a business owner, you probably don't know who he is. I still meet people all the time.

Logan Forsyth:

I don't not all the time Cause I'm like very in a circle of entrepreneurs, but it's still like he's not known by a lot of people who are not in our space, and not business owners, right, versus, uh, mr Beast is now gotten to the point to where he is, uh like A-list celebrity status.

Logan Forsyth:

Like my parents know who Mr Beast is, you know he's a household name at this point, um, but do you want to be known to everyone? Or, like, why are you creating content in the first place? Is it because you want to make more money, which business owners? That's usually always the case. They want to do it for the money. If that's so, then you want it to be more informational. You still want to post some relatable stuff that showcases you and your personality, builds more of a stronger relationship with your audience, but that's a smaller segment of the post you put out, and you want the bulk of it to be more informational, based and value driven to your client avatar, the people who make you money, right, if you own a business, and so that's what's going to drive targeted leads and sales, that's going to increase the top line and bottom line of your business.

Darren Lee:

And this is. This is great. I love we're jumping straight into it as well, because for most creators that are just doing the entertainment side and just even sticking on that, we can transition to entrepreneur. Entrepreneur it's the fact that they're not solving any problems. Like, yes, the entertainment video from mr beast is cool to see him crush a lamborghini, but it doesn't solve a problem. So, like, why would someone click through to pay for stuff? Now, I know he's an anomaly because people will still buy his products and stuff, but if you're not at a fraction of the size, you're not not going to get people to come through and go through that process.

Darren Lee:

So I've seen that, let's say, in the fitness niche many years ago, when guys were just getting known for being shredded and they knew that to help people with their macros and help people with their training and their recovery. So these guys have evolved Some of them we actually manage their shows and they've evolved into becoming problem solvers. They're helping people in the fitness space, whether the information is generic, specialized and custom. So for a lot of creators on the back end of that, do you see, those guys who've grown a big following, almost pivot their content as time goes on. So blow a big up, blow up a big account and then pivot into more educated yeah, educational content um, it depends.

Logan Forsyth:

Like there's still different business models around. If you stay in the entertainment space, we have clients who are more so entertainment driven creators and they make multiple, seven, eight figures. And you do that still through the traditional path of brand deals. You just have to be really big to make a lot of money. We're talking like seven figure plus income through brand deals. You have to be big, you have to have millions of followers and subscribers. Your engagement needs to be strong. You have to have good demographics that advertisers want to get in front of. You have to be like more than top 1%. You have to be top 0.01% to get to seven figures with brand deals alone. But we have clients that do that. And then, additionally, there's great platforms that are very creator focused to give people an offer to sell without necessarily solving a problem per se, like Patreon. Another platform that's really coming up and doing well is WAPcom, w-h-o-p.

Darren Lee:

That's the second time I've heard that today.

Logan Forsyth:

Oh, yeah, today, man, yeah, it seems like they came out of nowhere the last two months. Now it's like I'm talking to people who are collaborating with them all over the place. There's schoolcom with Alex Ramosi, sam Ovens. These different platforms can still make it to where you can build an offer around your community, around your brand, without it necessarily being a biz op, business opportunity offer or something else. That's solving a big problem, but it's just. It's giving your audience, let's say, with Patreon, it gives your audience more proximity to you, exclusive access to you content that no one else sees on the uh, on the backend. Ad free is a big part of it. Uh, and then we really help our clients who do have that as an offer.

Logan Forsyth:

Just beef it up further, because a lot of them and how you, how you fail at Patreon, you make no money with Patreon or some of these similar offers is you do what most people do and you're like, hey, yeah, just join my Patreon and uh, you know you get early access to content and you support the channel. It's like the worst pitch ever, right Versus, if you were to take that and instead be like hey, join the Patreon, you get free. Hey, join the Patreon. You get free access for the first seven days. Exclusive community content that no one else sees. Bonus episodes, early access we do Q&A calls monthly giveaways. Click the link below.

Darren Lee:

It's such a stronger offer, right, there needs to be a stronger variance between your free content and your paid content. If that's going to be behind a paywall, right, the delta has to be big enough to kick people into gear to actually go and pay the seven dollars, thirteen dollars, twenty nine dollars a month. But I guess, like most people, they're not thinking through a business lens or through an offer lens and they're just like, oh, support me for the sake of supporting me. You know, there needs to be that, that trigger point, which is like where you come in, where advice comes in on offer building on the back end, so you can take that creator audience and start adding on more layers to it. Now let's pivot into the business side of it.

Darren Lee:

So this is so interesting, right, because if you have a product or a business that's doing 50 million a year, well, you have insane product market fit sure so all you need to do is get more eyeballs, and if you're not putting out content, if you're not putting out content to get traffic, you're actually just paying for traffic, which is what all these companies are doing. They're highly leveraged on ads. It's working for sure. They probably have really good margins. But the opportunity is like why wouldn't you run content on the front end? Why do you think most people are still oblivious to the idea of doing it?

Logan Forsyth:

I think most people are not oblivious to the idea of doing it, but against it. They just don't want to. A lot of people who make money are more successful business owners. They want to be more private, right which there's validity to that. But again, they misunderstand.

Logan Forsyth:

I think a lot of business owners think that they are going to become the Mr Beast because they've had success. They're like yeah, I can grow an audience easy. It's not easy, right. You have to build the skillset. Put in the reps, let time play its course. The compound as well, just like anything else.

Logan Forsyth:

A lot of people underestimate what it takes going into it and you need the right skillset, you need the right systems, you need a great team around it, which are all things that we help people with. But a lot of people do underestimate it and they're like oh yeah, if I create content, I don't want to build this large audience, then everyone's in my business. It's like like, if you're a business owner and you create content for your business, you're just going to become more known in your industry. It's going to drive more leads and sales for your business and you're going to become more known in front of the people you want to become known to. You're not going to be a Kim Kardashian to where you can't go anywhere without getting recognized and be bothered all the time, Like it's just.

Logan Forsyth:

It's not the case, which a lot of people, I think, misconstrue that of happening. Additionally, a lot of people think that you need to live behind the camera and always be filming content, always behind the camera, which is also not the case, like a lot of the largest creators do get there, right, but on the business side, you can build systems around it and you can batch it, and there are very successful creators who film maybe one, two times a month, right, and they just batch their filming and prepare for it properly and know the systems, know the frameworks. That's going to be effective when they do spend the time to film the content. But there is an absolute reality, like we have a we have a lot of people that we help do it, um of turning anywhere from three to six hours of filming per month into hundreds of posts per month, being omnipresent across platforms. You just need the systems and the team behind you to do so.

Darren Lee:

Who are some of the big creators you're working with now, some of the big entrepreneurs you're working with now as a, as an example.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, um. We have NDAs with multiple uh, but some that I can recognize is like Tai Lopez, uh, dropouts, podcasts, um, and the other there's multiple that everyone knows that I can't say, unfortunately, uh. And then we work with niche creators as well. So we have creators that we work with in like the cooking space, like Honeysuckle. We have doctors that we work with who still have large followings, but it's more niche content. We have people who are in e-com. We have people who are in the relationship space as well, and so they're very well known again in those industries, but with more of a business audience like this.

Darren Lee:

No one's heard of them before, but they have, you know, millions, millions of followers and subscribers so the reason I asked you that is because, with our clients, I actually had a conversation with a guy recently and channel's growing, subscribers are, all views are up, whatever, and he made a good point. He was like what's he's, like what's it all for? Like what's our success metric? Right, do we want just more blind views? And these guys are actually brokers uh, real estate brokers okay, and my kind of approach to this was like we want to bring in the right audience, right. So take an example of the doctor do you have, how do you ensure, or do you ensure, or do you even not even care that if you get the 150 million views or so on that they're outside the icP? Or is that just a feature, not a bug, of basically creating content?

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, it depends on the approach, like when you are on the top end of our service and we generate hundreds of millions, billion plus views, it's not like every one of those views is going to be your ICP client avatar, right? Because in order to do so, you have to have more of a mass brand and you're you're not only focusing on small niche content. Um, however, uh, a big niche could still be business in general, which, going back to Alex, or mostly that's the case Uh, grant Cardone is like business sales real estate you have, uh, gary V is is largely like business focus, but then also just, uh, a lot of messages on success in general, so he's been able to go mass marketing.

Logan Forsyth:

So there's ways that you can like blend both.

Darren Lee:

I was going to say, and his mom as well. He's always hoping with his mom on Facebook these days, oh, is he? Yeah, I mean it's always like empathy and he's like mom and shit. That's like his biggest like narrative he's pushing.

Logan Forsyth:

Interesting? Yeah, I've largely. Honestly, I haven't seen Gary, I just haven't been consuming his content as much recently, and so you still can like go a mass approach if you want to. But let's say a doctor, for example. First you need to know who is your client avatar Like. Who is that person or that, those people that you're speaking to in your content.

Logan Forsyth:

And I will say the algorithm has gotten so good at this point at serving niche content to people who like watching that niche content. It's almost like ads, right? A lot of people are familiar with the concept of running ads. Every ad account gives you a pixel and it's called broad targeting to where it's just like. You don't even get very granular with the interest and demographics and audiences that you're targeting your ads, but your pixel and the algorithm is smart enough to where it knows who to serve your content to, based on maybe a small list of parameters, and then the pixel goes through a learning phase and trains up to where you don't even have to feed it more data.

Logan Forsyth:

The pixel and the algorithm gives all the data to know who to serve your content to. That same process happens with organic content and it's gotten better and better and better. So if you are a doctor and you want to talk to Sally, who is 55 years old and has thyroid problems, and you say that in your content and you're talking about thyroid problems and the symptoms that come up with it and the problems and solutions, it's going to serve that content to Sally, because the algorithm also knows that Sally looks out for things that are education on the symptoms that she's feeling and thyroid and et cetera, um and so then algorithm just naturally places you at the right people when you speak to them in your content.

Darren Lee:

Have you doubled up your content with ads, the kind of you're putting out, would you add? Would you boost those posts, at the same time Boosting posts.

Logan Forsyth:

it just depends on what kind of money you have to play with right. If you have like a lot of backing or just insane profit margins and you want to boost posts for reach, you can do that and it's not necessarily a waste of money, but it's more so branding play right Versus our system and strategy. It still requires a full team behind it, so it's not the cheapest service out there, but there's a very high ROI driven component to it because the amount of reach that we're able to generate hundreds of millions of views, if not a billion plus views for the cost that goes into it is substantial right and far greater than if you were to boost posts on ads. So I like going the organic route when it's more so just to get as much reach and traffic as possible. And with ads I think that there is more of an argument for it to be more targeted.

Logan Forsyth:

Like you want ads to be more traffic lead conversion driven. That way you are. You know having an ROI come from that. But again, it's like the biggest companies in the world as well, majority of their marketing ad budgets go to brand because they have the money to spend and they know it's the better longer term play Like that's. How you truly become a market leader and dominate and encapsulate market share is by being brand focused, getting in front of as many people as possible and making that a priority rather than just the direct response side of like I want to put $3 in and get $6 back right away within the next week.

Darren Lee:

That's interesting man. That's a different lens to look at it. Because that's what television is right. If you see a television ad for Audi, you're not going to go buy an Audi straight off the call right?

Logan Forsyth:

It's not direct response.

Darren Lee:

They're not giving you like call this number now do now exactly this thing, it's brand but then the flip side of that then is like for social socials, become more direct response ads whereas like a brand ad, yes, it's less tangible, but if you have the budget it's going to work. The reason why I ask is because you can now advertise your podcasts on youtube just for reach, so I can just this podcast here. I can just boost the video, but it's a weird. It's a weird metric because views go up but the average view duration is like one second because everyone just clicks on, clicks off, clicks on, clicks off. So I've, like my kind of thoughts on it is that a lot of it is randomized and one it's not beneficial at all because none, nobody's people are sticking to the video, and the second you switch off the ad, people don't come back. So a lot of people have come to us specifically to be like I'm spending 200 a week on ads. The second I turn them off, I have no audience. What should I do so?

Logan Forsyth:

it's actually almost destroying.

Darren Lee:

Yeah youtube.

Logan Forsyth:

There's a school of thought out there and I mean there could be some level of truth to it. It's not like this has been proven or the platforms have admitted so and they never will, unless they're forced to, but there's a school of thought of like okay, if this channel, if this account, is willing to spend for more reach, then why are we going to give them reach for free? And so a lot of people think that that can actually lead to the platform restricting your reach because they know that you're going to spend to get it.

Darren Lee:

That's not very valid dude.

Logan Forsyth:

A lot of people. I mean it's like logically it could make sense.

Darren Lee:

Well, if you think about it, their whole business model is based on advertising.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah.

Darren Lee:

So same with the same goes for the way I kind of put this together is like YouTube wants you to post more because they can make more off if, if you have a good account, right, so the ad sense that you get the pennies on the dollar is a proportion of all the money that they can make, right. So, yes, you are encouraged to post more and better quality. So if you do it more and do it better and just make it better than everyone else, yeah, so that's kind of the lens is like. At the end of the day, every platform wants you to push harder on it. Okay, so where I want to go this, go from this from here is mainly around what you've seen change in the short form space in the past. You know, six months since our first pod, like, do you think it's? Things have changed in terms of, like algorithms change, what content is served, what people want to consume could be on either platform tiktok, youtube, instagram um, yeah, I think that there is more competition, more saturation overall, and that's never going away.

Logan Forsyth:

It's only increasing. Right are you? Are you still? Uh, is it too late? No, absolutely not, like you're still early, but it is going to continue to increase and we're no longer in the environment of like in the business space. Everyone, when Hermosi first started blowing up with the short form content, everyone was like I need those Hermosi style captions. I was like the big trend and then it became with Emon as well. It's like I need like the Emon style captions.

Darren Lee:

And now it's like they start crossing my legs yeah.

Logan Forsyth:

It's not just about the captions. It never was, but a lot of people like had to push towards that and, uh, that was just earlier stages with it. So with more saturation and competition comes, uh, just the need to get better and do more quantity as well. That's like. That's what we have really specialized in and mastered. Um is when you can combine quality with quantity. That's where exponential results come in.

Logan Forsyth:

With socials, quality is first right. Like you can't polish, it's heard, your content sucks. Don't care how much of it you post, it's not going to be great, you're not going to be going viral, you're not going to compound your audience growth. So you have to have good quality content. And then we'll scale with brands and creators and post on the creator side or personal brand side, anywhere from like 1,200 to 3,000 posts a month, and then with enterprise brands, we can go all the way to 18,000 posts a month plus, because we have more flexibility with the content. Right, like if we were to do this for NFL, we could run this for their accounts players, coaches, nfl total highlights, nfl history, like. There's so many angles that we can approach it with.

Darren Lee:

Sorry. So you're doing this now for for enterprises too.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, we're starting to branch into enterprise, oh, okay.

Darren Lee:

So what's your philosophy? So initially you were doing the sub accounts for entrepreneurs like Tai Lopez, and now you're looking to do it for, like the jets.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, nfl is a dream client. If anyone's watching, we could crush it. But yeah, it's like there's so many approaches with it, like we were looking at Oreo the other day. Oreo is a household brand name. They've been around forever and they have a lot of UGC content that performs really well. So we could absolutely crush it with Oreo, you know, and like there's there's so many ways to get creative Car brands, entertainment, tv studios and networks the list is never ending.

Darren Lee:

It seems like sport is actually probably the best niche, though, because they'll play every single week. They just run around the fucking field. You find the clips you could do like an AI voiceover to like 11 laps or something, so it seems like the most repeatable, whereas, like I know, maybe Oreo has to go and fucking create more, create more videos, right. So it's like sport is always running, and the reason why I kind of my eyes lit up there was you might be familiar with noah morris. Noah morris runs all the uh faces channels very cool guy to connect to it.

Darren Lee:

Even, daniel bitten, you know, their biggest success in faceless was sport, basketball. Okay, um, because of the fact that, yeah, everyone knows all the basketball stars, their faces on the thumbnails.

Logan Forsyth:

Already it's huge audience and it's it's media driven right, like oreo is not a media company first nfl, nba, mlb, sports they are like it's it's media. At the end of the day, it's entertainment driven media okay.

Darren Lee:

So if you look at those, what of those industries can you take into your own personal brand? What can you learn from those experiences by looking at those people?

Darren Lee:

by looking at, like the nfls, the big sports organizations, yeah like even when I walk in the gyms here, like it's always on tv right so it's like an indoctrination. Basically, everywhere you go is politics or sport on all the screens. Like what lessons can you take from that domain into building your own personal brand? Do you want to grow and monetize your podcast but you don't know where to begin. Have you tried all the tricks and hacks but nothing has worked? Have you been wasting time, money and energy and seeing an analytics chart with no growth? That's where Vox comes in.

Darren Lee:

We've been helping podcasts grow and monetize their shows for many years. We've grown shows to over 100 million views, done over 10 million downloads, generated over $2 million in only the last year alone, and we can help you grow and monetize your own podcast. We've had some shows go from absolutely zero. We've had some of the biggest influencers in the world come to us to help and improve their show. So if you want to learn exactly our podcast, grow a Flywheel and exactly how we can do this for you and completely replicate success, schedule a call right down below myself and we can go through the exact model for you and to grow your podcast this year.

Logan Forsyth:

Production quality is a huge piece of it. They have the best in the world when it comes to the production teams behind it and what they put together, the edits they make, the equipment they use, et cetera, and we post over 40,000 times a month. We track everything and we have a lot of data that shows production quality does matter. The one platform that that's not really the case on is TikTok TikTok has. So going back to your question of like, how have I seen things change? Tiktok has taken more of a direction towards more raw type of content, and so it's a lot of like selfie style, like phone driven content. Just very raw. Not as much heavy editing, not as high of production is what, overall, tends to perform well on that platform. It's not like good production can't perform well, but if you're looking at the overall basis, tiktok is more of a raw content type of platform and it's also no longer the days of like 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021.

Logan Forsyth:

Tiktok is like so easy to build a huge audience. My business partner, spencer, grew multiple accounts from zero to millions within six months. I did as well with Manny Koshman. In the first four months, his TikTok went from zero to over 750,000 followers. This was in 2020 and 2021. Those days are gone.

Logan Forsyth:

It's not that easy anymore and almost like such a high degree of TikTok accounts that I see out there. They have a big following and then a lot of their content gets like 500 views, 1,000 views, 2,000 views. So I see that TikTok tends to put more of an emphasis over content quality than audience out of all the rest of the platforms. That's where all platforms are pushing towards as well. The recent Instagram updates have directly stated that they are putting more emphasis of content quality over audience size, which is exciting. That means that it's easier to become one of the big players if you just create better quality content, right Like. We have accounts all the time that maybe have hundreds or thousands of followers and then we have videos, go viral and get 10 million plus views and that account then grows to 10,000, 20,000 followers overnight because of that one viral video. That starts to snowball everything else Dude.

Darren Lee:

I heard Chris, chris Doe and Eric Zhu talk about that. How, before those platforms, like YouTube specifically, would be. Let's say, I subscribe to your channel. That gets featured on my homepage because I'm subscribed to you, but now it's not driven by who I'm subscribed to or following by, it's just what's recommended and trending. So what that means is it's not a monopoly of the big accounts anymore. Anyone can go viral from TikTok, that method and that method is coming to Instagram. It's coming to YouTube. It's already there.

Logan Forsyth:

It's already there exactly right.

Darren Lee:

And the example they had was Gary Vee, which is the fact that you know his videos are performing not as well as they used to, because he's now compared to some random 19-year-old who has all his content dialed in. So same words, and before Gary would be booming because people know who he is and they supported the platforms who support the channel, whereas now the same words that comes out of Gary's mouth will come out of a 19 year old, but it'll boom because of the production, the hook style and so on. And so forth.

Darren Lee:

So it levels the playing field. But to your point, around the account, with a huge following and no views, if you're not keep on top of your game, you're going to get railed effectively. You're just going to get railed in the long term. Yeah, you just have to stay great, stay great.

Logan Forsyth:

That's really it. You have to continue to put out quality, and if the quality is not there, then it's going to die off. There are so many channels that we've looked at that have millions of subscribers on YouTube, let's say, and their average views per video sucks. And then every single time, I go to the popular tab on the channel on their videos, and all their most popular videos were from five years ago, six years ago, seven years ago, and they just didn't keep great quality, and so they built a large subscriber base five years ago, but they no longer have that strong engagement with their audience anymore there's two sides to that as well I want to take.

Darren Lee:

So I'm always conscious of that, which is the reason why, doing these tours, I'm stepping things up. We're meeting in person. We're not just recording on fucking riverside or zoom anymore. We're taking that extra step up because I know most people won't do it, so they're not going to rent out a studio in la yeah, it's been a week here, right. So you need to evolve with the content. The second thing is, with those seven or eight years of creating content, your audience also evolve, right. So I'll give an example if you're teaching people how to get shredded, well, when they were 1920 it was valuable, but when 27, 28, they either know or they've given up. Does that make sense? The maturity of the audience evolves. So the best guys are the people who are able to get the maturity in their audience, so they evolve through it. Does that make sense?

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah.

Darren Lee:

So it's almost like you help people go zero to one, then you have people go one to 10 and then 10 to a hundred. So I heard Ali Abdaal talk about that as well, how his biggest fear was people dropping off in his audience. How would you advise to maintain that tribe and cult for a long time?

Logan Forsyth:

Everyone evolves over time is the ideal scenario, right? Like you never want to stay stagnant, you always want to be growing, and so it just depends on what that path of growth looks like for you. I think that when it comes to making money from social media, you look at the people who are on the path to making billions. Grant Cardone has already achieved it right by going the ownership model like a true ownership model and building a fund around his audience and having something to where people write him multi-million dollar checks from the audience and the socials that he generated. Can you explain that? Yeah, so like Grant Cardone, cardone Capital he primarily buys multifamily real estate, a-class, like brand new trophy assets that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and so he's raised majority of the capital from his audience because he had such a large audience and platform to be able to make that happen. And by now it's like somewhere between four to, I think, $6 billion in real estate over the last like handful of years. It didn't even take that long for Cardone Capital specifically to get to that level. And then you have, like Alex Ramosi, who acquisitioncom is a private equity model Like it's, and it's largely. It's so good because he's not even going like a venture capitalist route and like pumping a bunch of cash into these businesses. He's just getting equity for consulting, like that's literally it for his expertise, and he's like you'll get 20, 30% equity chunks in companies it's still minority chunks um to be a consulting partner, essentially as part of acquisitioncom. Uh, and he's done this with very large companies eight figures, nine figures, or eight figures that are growing to nine figures, nine figure companies that are growing to 10 figures. Um, and like he's just identifies the best companies out there who are already on that path to growth and obviously he puts a value first. The table that has people like want to do that. Right, and he's built the brand and the reputation that people want to do that with him. Um, but it's an amazing model, and so it just depends on where you take it. Other people, um, but it's an amazing model, and so it just depends on where you take it.

Logan Forsyth:

Other people maybe they started their audience, uh, about dating. But I see this happen a lot in the dating space, right, like you started a dating coach, um, and then you do a lot of like, let's say, pickup, and you meet a lot of girls and, as a result you're probably going to meet a girl that you really really like and then get serious with her, and then it's like there's this uh like and then get serious with her, and then it's like there's this uh dichotomy of you no longer want to be like a dating pickup coach because you're in a serious relationship and so there's like friction there and you kind of evolved out of that over time. It's like a how to beast, yeah, yeah, like that Exactly. Um, so it just depends on like what you started in your audience and and how you want to evolve it from there. There's not really like a set answer with that.

Logan Forsyth:

But I say, as long as you keep evolving and growing, your audience likely will as well. If you continue to put quality first in the content that you put out, and then if you make a big pivot, you'll probably have a portion of your audience who makes that pivot with you, and then there's probably gonna be a portion who don't right. But when making that new pivot with you, and then there's probably going to be a portion who don't right. But when making that new pivot, you're going to branch into new demographics, new audiences who are interested in that new pivot thing that you've done as well.

Darren Lee:

I actually asked Luke Bellemere a similar question around building authority. So, like, how do you build authority with your audience when you're small? And his response was you self-develop through your content. So if you're getting better as a person, you're getting fitter, leaner, richer, whatever because you bring your audience on that journey, it's okay to be changing right, instead of saying like you should be running ads and then next week you should be like I'm doing organic only right.

Darren Lee:

That's a mismatch, Whereas if you just show like, hey, I don't know everything, I'm not perfect, this is what I'm working on, this is what I'm working on next, they see that growth with you and you can kind of transform it as a result and that's how you can go on to do other things long term. Right, because you started with media scaling. You'll still be building media scaling. You can move on to other stuff. It's gonna happen with me as well, right, but I think there's less of a pressure then, because you don't come into it with like I know everything right. Question, for that is so a lot of these guys who boom maybe some of the boom and bust have very polarizing opinions. Okay, and obviously having that splitting audience effect is important because it shows you stand for something. What's the? Where's the line, you think, between like having a bit of polarized view but then having an extreme view whereby you could almost burn your brand at the same time? Sure?

Logan Forsyth:

yeah, yeah, the most extreme cases is, uh, like andrew tate, I would say, is number one to where you're so polarized and you get kicked off all platforms and you're just like basically banned from social media. Um, donald trump not far behind him, um, you know, but in they're also some of the most known people in the world and they have cult-like diehard fans and followings. And they have the other people on the other side who hate their guts, and so that's what polarization comes with. You love it or you hate it. The algorithm definitely rewards polarization.

Logan Forsyth:

There is very few people who have grown rapidly, who have grown fast on social media, that are not polarizing. Um, so I think it's polarizing is overall, I believe, a good thing, as long as you have really thought through what you're being polarizing about, right. And so I think that there's a good question to ask yourself, like am I still going to stand behind this in 10, 20 years? Is this still going to be a belief of mine in 10, 20 years? Um, and thinking a bit longer term before you take very polarizing positions against things, uh, because otherwise you may evolve out of that or may change your opinion on something and you've had a whole brand built against it and now you're in a bad spot. But if you've, like, really thought through the things that you are going to be polarizing about, then I think it's a great thing, right, um?

Darren Lee:

dating is a perfect example there. Okay, the pickup culture, dating space, like, as you mentioned, some guys are just chasing chicks and then they find someone. They're married and they have kids. It's like what the hell you said You're meant to have 50 girlfriends and now they're the opposite of you, right yeah?

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, and then you can also then evolve right to where um, like usually it's it's young guys who want like a bunch of uh chicks and like that's the audience that you're selling to, versus there's still a massive market and people who do incredibly well have built big businesses and there's still a dating coach, but more so for marriage. Like it's like you're more of a marriage coach at that point or you're a dating coach of like finding a serious partner, like you're at a stage before marriage and so it's not always like get as many chicks as possible type of approach. That's usually just the young guy approach, but when you're in your thirties you still see dating content A lot of people do but it's probably more so geared towards like find your serious partner and then, if you're married, you're going to see people that talk about marriage advice.

Darren Lee:

You know again, it evolves, you evolve completely. It's like making your first 10K a month, making 100K a month, building an enterprise right.

Logan Forsyth:

I don't watch any content that talks about making your first 10K a month anymore Used to, but when I wasn't there, that's like all I consumed, right, because that was the stage that I was in.

Darren Lee:

So for your coaching offer specifically, that you're teaching people to basically build these sub-accounts and build their own brand and grow what's your zero to one for helping people build a bunch of accounts to grow their brand and redirect back into an offer.

Logan Forsyth:

So we have two offers to our company of media scaling the done-for-you offer, which is where we guarantee up to one billion views in the first 180 days, and that's for leading personal brands, podcasts creators and enterprise brands on in their journey. They're they're new to content, they haven't started yet or they just began recently, right, and so for them, a lot of the time it fits more so into the console, the consulting program that we have put together, because they're just not a fit yet for a done for you services and our offer. And so if you are newer to creating content, usually what you're lacking you're overall lacking the knowledge, right, but you're usually lacking the systems and the team right. If you're going to get really good at content, you need those key pieces in place, and so that's what the consulting program is completely tied around. We provide all of our internal trainings that we use at the company for editor training, social media manager training, production training, a lot of training on creating effective content, like going over hooks, a lot of viral hook frameworks, tools that we use for analysis of coming up with content, ideas that are proven to already go viral and be effective and work in your niche and space things along those lines, and so that's really the curriculum element. And then ongoing personalized coaching. I do weekly calls as part of that group. And then there's the community side as well, to build your network of other people who are at a similar stage, similar mindset, similar level as you are. So that's really that side.

Logan Forsyth:

And then the done for you side is more so for leading brands. We like to work with people on the very minimum of a hundred thousand plus followers A lot of our clients are more so in the millions range and then earning at least seven figures plus. And then everything above, because if you're not there yet one, you're not going to be able to afford an entire media team, which is what we provide to be able to run our service at scale. And then, secondly, the media team that we provide is going to generate you a massive increase in views, like with a lot of our clients. The guarantees that we give them it's many times over 10x the highest We've done, 130x recently guarantee of increase in the next 180 days versus the prior 180 day views 130x and we're guaranteeing that result Right. Their prior 180 day views 130, x and we're guaranteeing that result Right.

Logan Forsyth:

And um, when that happens, for you to make great money as a result, you need to have dialed monetization systems. So we help our clients with that a lot, because at this point we've worked with so many clients in multiple industries that and we see all of them uh, most of them are at the eight figure or nine figure. We have clients that are doing billions in the annual revenue and then mostly seven figure level as well, but we see what works so well for them and then we're like all right, we learn from this guy, we learn from this girl and we can take it over here and apply it with this brand and so on and so forth. So we provide a lot of consultative value, uh, with our clients as well, from how we get to learn across all of them and what works so well.

Darren Lee:

They have access to you, though. Right, that's the biggest thing. It's not about just running the account, it's also access to you, your team.

Logan Forsyth:

Not just me. We have a big team. We're 120-ish people now, right under 120. Incredible team. They've all been highly, highly trained as well, and a lot of our team is more involved with the client fulfillment side than I am, so they know information that I don't as well. Um, and so it's the full collective right they get access to you with but they pay for access, though.

Darren Lee:

That's a big thing that, people, you need to articulate in your sales messaging, which is like yes, we're going to do this shit for you execution layer, but the strategy and the monetization is where you're going to learn the most, too. You're going going to become like a better business owner, a better creator. That puts you in the best seat. That's what we do for most of our clients, right? Yes, you run all their podcasts, but at the end of the day, they're learning how to build a funnel, how to optimize their product right now, how to build offers on the backend, because most guys, even businesses, don't have that dialed in. They say they do.

Darren Lee:

They say they have a business which might run off ads or whatever, but specifically, I call it the connective tissue. Imagine like a ligament in your leg. There's a connective tissue from here to here and we need to bind that together. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's not just, as you mentioned, it's not about a billion views. A billion views into the ether means you end up capitalizing on none of it. There needs to be be a way to move across. So what's your mechanism there? So let's say someone, what would you say is like an ideal offer. Would you say that's low ticket, mid ticket or maybe in the sales calls? How do you think about that? Because when you're getting the views, they're being directed in different ways.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, I mean you can make money with all of them.

Logan Forsyth:

Exactly no-transcript recruiting and team building. And so it comes down to the approach that I like to take with it is the theory of constraints. It's like what's the number one constraint to where, if we solve that, it's going to produce the largest outcome on the backend for that business, and then let's just tackle it in that sequence from there. And so maybe the constraint is that you're off like you're getting a lot of traffic, you're getting a lot of leads, but the offer isn't converting well. So we just need to work on the offer itself. Let's like let's rewrap, let's add new wrapping paper on top of it to make it sound more attractive. Let's look at the landing page and the copy of the bullet point breakdown and let's see how we can improve that. Or maybe the offer is converting really well but you're not getting a lot of leads, and so then we need to work on the promotion strategy on the front end and pay attention to click-through rates and so on and so forth. So it just differs per client.

Logan Forsyth:

Our team definitely provides that level of advice to our clients and we do also do rev shares, not with all of our clients, but for people where they're interested in that and when we have a rev share with our clients. I mean, they get more of my time, they get more. Or we have a marketing director who's like very involved with them and our executive team as well, because we have such aligned incentives where if we make you more money, we're going to make more money as a result. There's no cap, there's no ceiling, there's unlimited upside, and so we're going to put more time and effort into that. And that's where we're really, at that point, feeling like a partner, right, like we are analyzing your landing pages, giving you docs of action steps to take, tweaking the copy, like looking at the offer. All right, what about the onboarding process? What did your attention look like?

Darren Lee:

and like really diving into all these different areas I think that's like the biggest opportunity you know, because we are doing the exact same thing and we're making way more money off the rev shares than the retainers, sure you know. But again it goes back to you have to pick the right horse right so you need it and you know you're doing that with your ideal client um list.

Darren Lee:

You know your dream list 100 or dream list 50, because too many people get involved in the wrong business. Everyone wants to do a rev share with someone because it's zero risk down, but there needs to be the unit economics on the back end. Right, make more sense. That's where what you're doing, the fact that you're so specific, is going to work really well, and that's it. Now you mentioned the landing pages and whatnot. What do you see? Some of the kind of biggest gaps there that people are not fixing in there. So that's your running content from short form, instagram, tiktok, whatnot, and they're driven to the landing page. How would you set up that landing page to be more high converting? Is there a sequence, a format you'd follow?

Logan Forsyth:

um, I mean, there's different landing pages depending on the type of funnel, right? Uh, what I've learned is, at this point, I've built hundreds and hundreds of funnels that have gotten a lot of traffic and so data to split, tests against and really learn from. And the simpler the better, almost always like the simpler the better and, um, I created, uh, we have our. I'm a big believer in also giving away your best stuff for free as well. Um, and when you do that as a business owner, you give away your best stuff for free. People go through it. They're like, oh my God, they give this away for free. I can't even imagine what their paid stuff looks like. Right, and so many uh, business owners want to like hold, they're like I can't give away my most valuable stuff for free. I need to sell this. This is my secret sauce. It makes the business and it's like OK, so if you give away your mediocre stuff for free and people go through that, they're going to be like this is mediocre, so they're probably mediocre and they're not going to want to work with you. So it's the inverse. So I'm a huge believer in giving absolute best stuff for free. We have multiple free courses that we put together and one is called 2 Billion View Secrets. It just goes over a lot of the secrets that we've learned of generating at this point, 5 plus billion views on editing tactics that we apply to our content, hundreds of viral hook frameworks, the scheduling tool that we use that allows us to post 40,000 plus times a month and keeping top quality, so on and so forth. So I put that together for you.

Logan Forsyth:

It's at mediaskillingcom forward slash kickoff and also, to answer your question, the reason I bring it up is because when you go to that landing page, it's super simple White background, headline, sub-headline button and that's it no images, even on there, no VSL video, no long form sales copy, because we've tested it against all of those. And this one way out converts all the rest of just keeping it stupid simple, because people go to this landing page and they can either click on the button and then click on the form or they leave, and that's the only two options, right, and the headline is still. It tells you what you're going to get. It's very benefit driven, it's a great offer and there's a lot of value when you opt into it and I've learned that not only on like the landing page as well.

Logan Forsyth:

But going further into the funnel, like on the funnels, after someone opts into, let's say, a free lead magnet, we've tested of driving them to the application right. And then the application page we've split tested of only having the application alone and nothing else, versus a page that has, like our company, stats and billions of views generated and, uh, working with clients collectively doing billions in annual revenue, team of 120 people, yada, yada. Our client roster of all these big names and the one that only has the application out converts, the one that has all the additional proof elements, but it's just more stuff on the page.

Darren Lee:

Have you read um? Have you read story brand? Yeah, yeah it's exactly what it's based around, right, just simplicity. Strip out all the bullshit, yeah, all the things that just distract people. End of the day, one clear outcome make it as easy as possible, right, as easy as possible. Your guarantee, so the up to 150?.

Logan Forsyth:

Up to 1 billion views in 180 days it was 150 million.

Logan Forsyth:

Right, it was 150. In 90 days, we learned. We started speaking with bigger brands who were like we could do more than this. And then also we retailer it to 180 days, because the longer our service runs, the more it compounds, the more valuable it becomes. So at month six the value is much greater than month three, and at month three the value is much greater than month one, because all the accounts that we create for these brands and creators start from zero. So there is a buildup process to it, but the accounts compound, the audience compounds, the content compounds, the views compound, and so by month six it's a no-brainer and we're usually generating tens, if not hundreds, of millions of views per month for our clients. They're making a ton of money as a result. Their audience is growing, usually hundreds of thousands per month across the board, and so that's why we tailored it around that and also can give a much bigger guarantee as a result, as well, I saw on one of your podcasts you mentioned conditional versus unconditional guarantees.

Darren Lee:

What's the difference?

Logan Forsyth:

So unconditional is uh, that's you only want to do. Unconditional if you are selling something lower ticket. So, like a lot of e-commerce, retail brands will do this right, and it's just like you don't like it, like you get your money back. You can return no conditions attached. That's really it. Like you buy a shirt at the store and they're like you don't like it, it doesn't fit. Well, whatever, bring it back, you'll get a refund. That's an unconditional guarantee.

Logan Forsyth:

Conditional guarantee is something to where they have to meet following conditions in order to apply for the guarantee, and so if you do that as a business, what you want to do is just make the steps for success, the conditions, right, because if they do these steps for success, then it's very unlikely that they're going to want to get a refund because they've succeeded at that point, and it also allows you to more confidently guarantee a result.

Logan Forsyth:

So, like the way that our guarantee works, it's a results-based guarantee. If you don't get the amount of views and we say up to a billion views, because it ranges depending on multiple variables, it depends on the brand and what they talk about how niche versus mass are they right? If you're more niche, then it's not about getting as many views because you have a much higher view to dollar ratio than someone who's more uh, who's more like mass approach to where you don't need as many uh views, make as much money, and so the value per views is much greater and therefore you're probably going to get less of them if you're more niche with it. That's a big factor. That goes into it. The brand itself. Then also, we have different tiers of package, so you go with the bigger package, you get a bigger guarantee. Our guarantees typically always range between 50 to 1 billion views, 50 million to 1 billion views, and so that's-.

Darren Lee:

But it's a minimum threshold, sorry. You'll guarantee a minimum of X and then up to a billion, is that correct?

Logan Forsyth:

No. So we'll give someone the guaranteed view target by, let's say, the 180 day mark. If the 180 days come and we haven't hit it, then we work for free until we do up to an additional three months, and we almost always hit it. Then we work for free until we do up to an additional three months, and we almost always hit it. We still set high guarantees Again. Usually it's 10x all the way up to 130x and some instances of an increase of views compared to your prior 180 days. So we're guaranteeing you a huge increase in views as results-based and if we don't hit it, then we'll continue to work for free for that period of time.

Darren Lee:

Do you want to know how we book the most amazing guests on our podcast? Like you're seeing today, I've created a full template and guide and every single script that I've ever used to get the best guests in the world, and I've put everything together in a simple, step-by-step process. If you click the link down below, I'll give you the exact guide to book any guests on your podcast and have a full guest management system for you to manage every single guest. If you want to see the process behind booking guests like Justin Waller, luke Bellmer, sterling Cooper and every guest in the online business space, click the link down below and you'll get the full guide for free. Thank you, interesting man. Interesting. How do you track all of them together? Is there a specific software you're using that aggregates everything together? How would you advise other people to track their engagement effectively?

Logan Forsyth:

We had two software engineers build an internal API scraping tool that we use for tracking. 80% of it is automated. Snapchat really does not like the scraper and we haven't really found a workaround, so Snapchat is more manual. Uh, but we have like we're very data driven. We have incredible tracking sheets that we've created for our clients, um, and then we run the API scrapers on a daily basis for each of our clients, and then we have a data analyst team who will go in and plug the holes for the components that are still manual as well. Fuck, what's your?

Darren Lee:

operational expenditure like.

Logan Forsyth:

Operational expenditure.

Darren Lee:

Yeah, just all your team, everything.

Logan Forsyth:

We're multiple six figures in payroll. Yeah, how does that feel? It feels good. Yeah, you make more money. It's like we have big goals. We're going to become like. My goal is to take media scaling to become the number one social media firm in the world, and so, in order to get there, we're going to eventually have millions in payroll and then tens of millions.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, you need to take big swings right yeah, well, big swings, but also you need a lot of people. You need a big team and you need great people as well, which costs money. You know great people are not cheap. You need to pay them more, but they make you more money as a result.

Darren Lee:

So with that team, specifically like what made you fill in the gaps, that you need a data analyst and you need engineers Like where did those, where did that information come from?

Logan Forsyth:

A lot of the system was already built prior to starting media scaling Like. A bit of the story is my partner, um, who I founded the company with his name is Spencer Murphy. Uh, he worked internally as head of marketing for Jason capital for about four and a half years. Started with Jason capital, uh, when he had 30,000 followers on Instagram and they grew to 6 million plus collectively across platforms over the next four years and Spencer really led the entire content team, so led the editors, the organic content, what they were talking about, all the systems et cetera, and they're generating a hundred million plus views per month when he was working with Jason. Then afterwards, jason just took a big break from content still is, doesn't post really today.

Logan Forsyth:

But after working with Jason, spencer started working internally for Iman Godzi and built Iman's full network of all these sub-accounts which are like Iman Godzi Reels, iman Godzi Clips, so on and so forth who originally built and led that division and a lot of the systems that he had developed working with Jason Capital Crossford and transferred over to working with Emon and then in the first four months they generated 450 million views. He told that to me. I was astonished by the number, couldn't get out of my head, and then Spencer was wanting to go out on his own and start an agency of my head. And then Spencer was wanting to go out on his own and start an agency. And then I was in a transitory period myself to where I sat down and really journaled on it and thought through it and came up with the idea to guarantee 100 million views in 90 days is what it was when we started the company and then do that for top brands.

Logan Forsyth:

So when we started media scaling, instead of a dream 100 list, we created a dream 1000 list, and then we just put all the top brands. And so when we started media scaling, instead of a dream 100 list, we created a dream 1000 list, and then we just put all the top brands and names that we would want to do this for and then started going through it and finding their contact info, reaching out by email, tapping into our network, asking like hey, do you know anyone that could be a good fit for this? Both of us had been in the space prior for about eight years each before we started media scaling together, so we already had a big network in the space as well. So, long story short, like, the systems and the operations were largely developed before we started media scaling, which has allowed us to grow as fast and as far as we have in just a little over a year and a half of starting the company.

Darren Lee:

Crazy man. And the fact that it's so turnkey means that you can also just coach people on how to do that as well. Right, because they'll build up to that eventually or they can come work with you. But it's the fact that you've done it for multiple different people. You can do it at a smaller scale or bigger scale right, it allows you to be more flexible with that. Who's someone that you'd love to work with? That's crushing it right now in space? That's not doing a sub-account? Who are some people you think that are leaving cash on the table?

Logan Forsyth:

Andy Elliott big fan of him. Been watching him for a while. Andy Priscilla as well, ed Milat, rob Gierde deck uh, they'd all be phenomenal for this does hermosy do this, though.

Logan Forsyth:

Hermosy uh, we are connected with hermosy and his team. Um, right now he's looking to keep things internal. They're not doing it to the level that we do it, uh, but they do have a few sub accounts that they run and distribute media on, but Hermosy would definitely be on that list as well. Um, and then the enterprise side, like NFL, nba, mlb, hulu, netflix, marvel studios uh, large TV networks um is where we want to go. Like I'd love to work with, uh, aston Martin, ferrari, bugatti, uh, get into luxury space as well. We are starting to work with some enterprise brands that have NDAs with that are really exciting. There are multiple household brand names as well, so we're starting to really build up the case study and the proof in that market to allow us to really branch into it. We've started to build a team around it as well, who has a lot of experience when it comes to enterprise business development. So we're in early stages of that still, but it's very exciting. A lot of opportunity there.

Darren Lee:

That's interesting, right, because those companies would be super careful of the brand. They'd want to really protect the brand, right? So let's just take Aston Martin, for example. How could you grow something like that with all these sub accounts and then still keep it elegant and not too like over the top?

Logan Forsyth:

yeah, well, largely, when we're working with these big brands, a lot of what we do is repurposing their existing content, right? Um, like I look at the a to z content process of creating and posting as four steps. Step one, you have strategy. Step two, you have production, which is actually video in the content. Step three, you have post-production, which is the editing. And step four, you have distribution, which is managing the accounts, posting the content. So on our done for you side, we do the strategy, the post-production, editing and the distribution. The only thing that we do not do is the production, so we're not sending out like film crews and videographers to work with our clients. All of them already have that in place and so a lot of it comes down to. We help a lot with strategy because we understand and know what works at this point, and so our client will have a team and they'll already be consistently creating content and have their systems in place. But we still tell them like, hey, this would be good to talk about and this content strategy is working really well.

Darren Lee:

These are great hooks, for you Do what. That's where the mold is in the business right. That's what I was trying to say. That's your unique mechanism the fact that you can help so much in a strategy, not just a repurpose.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, that's a part of it, but we also have more experience than anyone else in the world when it comes to building these sub-account networks, of course and we have the most case studies We've really been the first mover on it, and we also back it up with the biggest guarantee out of anyone else as well, and so the actual fulfillment side on the deliverables is a huge piece of it as well, for sure. So it's both of those components. But when it comes to working with a larger brand like Aston Martin, a lot of the content that we'd be working with is what they've already, their production teams have already created, and so that solves half the battle. And, additionally, it's just like we have to be really good. We are really good. We're always striving to get even better.

Logan Forsyth:

One of our core values is greatness. We don't settle for good, we go for great. We look to pioneer and to lead, not to follow, to always be innovating. Our second core value is creativity, and so we want to take a creative approach with everything that we do. But, yeah, we know to work with the best. We have to be the best, and that means creating really really high quality, great content. We have a double layer review process on every edit that we create before it's published out as well Amazing trainings, amazing team to know what looks good and works well. And then we're very collaborative with their clients when they want to be to be on top of just making sure that everything looks great. So all those components put together is how we're going to do it.

Darren Lee:

How has that transferred over to your own personal brand? You've been growing a lot.

Logan Forsyth:

You're probably 35k now um, yeah, my personal brand.

Logan Forsyth:

So it's been something to where I have been so focused on, uh, the business and fulfillment and building the team clients like we've grown to 120 people in a little over a year and a half, um to where it still takes a back seat, honestly, and, uh, we have a lot of applications that come in a really like healthy pipeline to where, on the lead generation and sell side, like we're doing really well, and so that's why it also hasn't like taken the biggest priority yet, however, we're getting close to that.

Logan Forsyth:

So we haven't fully like practiced what we preach with my brand, specifically where, like I haven't built a full sub account network for myself and don't have like as large of an in-house team around it and aren't as consistent with creating content. Um, I kind of I do enough to like get by and to get content out there. That's still up to the quality that I want it to be for. Now, um, I have high standards and there's ideas, things that we want to do to make it better, uh, but it's just been like the process of building up to that you're still releasing like four clips a day now, aren't?

Logan Forsyth:

you. It's uh consistent.

Darren Lee:

I think we're at two clips a day for now yeah that's still, if you think about it, that's still gonna be more than 99 of people.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, we're still doing hundreds of posts per month. Um, and that's that's what I talked about. Going back to our consulting program, short Form Mastery, we give you the systems and the training to turn three to six hours of filming per month into hundreds of posts per month. It'd be omnipresent across the board. I'm doing it. I'm literally living it. I don't spend a lot of time filming content like this on a monthly basis. Majority of my time goes to growing the business and to sales and marketing operation, the vision of the company and culture and leadership, and so content has not been the top priority up until this point, and it's still good enough to where, like I mean we're, we're doing good, like we have a great lead generation application pipeline that builds up Lots of opportunity that comes our way from the content that we do put out. And so that's the whole message. If you're at the earlier stages or newer content, it doesn't take a lot. You don't need to get to millions of followers for it to be substantial for your business. You just don't.

Darren Lee:

Yeah, and that's what's interesting, right, it's the fact that it's not about constant breath. It can be depth too. Within the industry, which is what you're doing, which is what I guess some of your doctor clients, baking clients that's what they're focused on is much more depth of the audience versus bread in your instance. How are you bringing more your personal story and journey involved in that? You know that kind of component, that pillar, how does that incorporate into your content stock?

Logan Forsyth:

what do you mean? Can you ask?

Darren Lee:

like, if you're asking, if you're bringing in a lot of your own uh values in your own content and your own like b-roll of behind the scenes, like where you're wedding and whatnot, how do you incorporate that side of it, beyond just the business stuff, into actually your content yourself?

Logan Forsyth:

I see um, yeah, I think it's important to have a portion of your content showcase other aspects of your personality that's more relatable, that builds a stronger connection with your audience, right To where it's not always only information but you showcase, like, who you are as a person. If you have, like I just got married recently, so, like posting content with my wife, all of our clients, like when we post content with their family, always performs higher than average. Like just does really well. So, showcasing, like, if you have other hobbies or interests or things you're passionate about also like, sprinkle that into your content. It shouldn't become the majority, right, if you have a business, specifically if you have a business, you want somewhere between 60 to 80% of your content to speak to your ideal client avatar and be informative and value-based. However, the other 20 to 40%, you can put in that more relatability content as well. It's also a bit more mass market approach depending on, like, how you, how you put it in there, um, and and what you use as the hook and the content topic.

Logan Forsyth:

Uh, like, I created some videos recently talking about how, like a polarizing topic, why married men make more than single men, was the hook. Also, like why I got married at 26 years old and so, like talking about those components, it still is part of my brand, like that's core to my values and who I am. It's polarizing which I'm willing to lean into. That polarizing uh, that polarizing aspect, because I strongly believe in it. Um, and it still resonates with a lot of my audience, like it's content that they still would want to listen to. It's not too far out of left field they're not going to be interested at all, um, but it's more relatable and showcases different aspects out of always talking about, uh, just creating more effective content and scaling your socials.

Darren Lee:

Well, I think that's interesting because it brings people into your ecosystem. And then they came to you because of like getting married and they're like okay, this guy actually does all this other shit that I actually also want to go and learn. So it was the same with me with alcohol videos. So it's been like two years since I gave up alcohol. I always detail like the benefits of it's been like two years since I gave up alcohol. I always detail like the benefits of it's been on my business, my relationships, my fitness and that's brought more people in the ecosystem. They're like oh well, I actually do want to start a podcast, I do want to learn more about content and, as a result, they stay in that ecosystem. But they almost trust you more.

Darren Lee:

Like the trust is higher right because you're not just like what you're doing is obviously super unique, but for the most, a lot of people's advice that they're giving out is pretty generic. It can be found on Google. So the nuance is the storytelling and the nuance is like the personal story. So that's where bringing in those personal experiences puts you in a category of one, builds a thousand true fans as well 100% and it goes back to like I'm huge on values and like to speak on my values.

Logan Forsyth:

I'm more traditional and rooted in them and I overall I'm not saying like if you don't fall into this you're a bad person by any means, but like I overall like to talk about traditional values. I'm committed to my partner, so much so that I got married at a young age. A lot of my relationships I've known for majority of my life, long time to where I'm someone who, if I find you, I stick with you. I believe in long-term relationships and partnerships and that's the value in the mindset that I have with business as well, and people see that in your content and they also just automatically assume that's gonna be the case of if you do business together also right, and so it does help on the business side. Yeah.

Darren Lee:

It goes back to the who am, I question, right? Because if you're someone who's just completely in misalignment to the content you're putting out or the business that you're putting out, that's why, like you shouldn't do like a business deal with someone who's cheating on their wife in the back door when you know about it.

Logan Forsyth:

It's just like if I'm going to go into business with this person, chances are he's going to snake me, just like he's doing to his wife right now, right?

Darren Lee:

And that's an example that happens very often, right? So having that alignment between your actual true values and the values you want your customers, audience, users to follow is very important, and that's why I think some of those expose videos where they tear someone down like a creator or whatnot, paints the actual reality versus the content they're putting out. So it's very important to have that alignment, man 100%.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, I mean, if you're saying it, you have to live it. Yeah, but if you actually live it and then you say it, then people believe it. Otherwise why would you not?

Darren Lee:

And that congruency and that alignment does help well. That's why it's just very interesting to see why people would launch a business or run an offer that they don't even believe in. They don't do right, because, like, you're doing what you say, you're selling what you do. Most people who are starting businesses that have no idea what they're doing. They're complete misalignment, right, and we look at that thinking like that's not a good idea, obviously, but it's same with your habits. And so if you're selling a health offer and you're smashing pizzas at the weekend, is it? Is it completely in alignment? No, so, yeah, man, there's a lot to take on that. What aspect of storytelling do you do you use for short form? Do you educate people on storytelling? Do you utilize that in the content?

Logan Forsyth:

utilize that in the content. Um, yeah, stories, like stories, is the best way to teach. Um, it is an incredible way to have people retain information. Um, we have evolved through stories. You know, a large reason that we as a human race have evolved at such a rapid rate over any other species is because we have the ability to pass down stories from generation to generation, information from generation to generation. So it's largely like just evolved as the way that our brains work, and so the better you are at storytelling, the more effective of a communicator you're going to be, and that's going to showcase your content.

Logan Forsyth:

There's a lot of resources out there for it, but I think it comes down to like a lot of our the most effective hooks that we've had are story-based hooks as well, and you can basically just use a hook and then tell the story behind it. If you're a good storyteller, that's going to create captivating content. A lot of final videos on socials are just stories, right, especially podcasts. So it's important for sure. It's not all the content, it's not the the only basis that we rely on. A lot of the con, like I found in the business space, what feels to be missing the most, um, and and what I think is most effective is being more tactical. Like when I create my content, I want people to actually get takeaways from it of like, okay, I can do this thing, I can take away this strategy and implement it in what I'm doing and it's going to help me make more money. It's going to help me be a better person. It's going to help me in this arena.

Logan Forsyth:

That's what Alex Ramozy does so well. That allowed him to grow to the rate he did. Like his content is so tactical. Like every, almost every time I watch him, I have ideas that come like action items that I can take away from it. A lot of people in the business information space. They talk on more of the high level stuff like the, the, the mindset component and belief, and just like higher level components that go over the head of a lot of people. I say, and so, uh, they just don't make it tactical enough. Um and so I think that that really, like the most, the biggest people in the business space largely have that like. They are very tactical the information they provide, and so people get so much free value from them in exchange.

Darren Lee:

They want to work with them further well, hormones is a great example because he's adding in a story component right. All of his value-based content is around a specific story. It could be an actual person. If you notice that he would call out like a specific person, it could be the bakery, the woman that's that's growing a bakery and she made this change yeah, and then, as a result, then people stay for the video, but then they learn the lesson.

Darren Lee:

So he talks about like giving people what they want, so that you can give them what they need. And if your content is a super dry like this is what I do this is how you should run your funnel. Well then no one's really like enthralled by it. So he's actually doing entertainment and then on the back end, he's also educating you yeah, that's, yeah, it's a blend.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, there's. I mean, the two pillars to value are entertainment and information. Really, if we're going to simplify it and so if you can blend both of those together, uh, you're going to do well and, to your point, if you can blend in storytelling to teach lessons and to apply tactics, that's going to be more effective content than if you just give a list with no context, no story behind it.

Darren Lee:

Last question for you is what's your plan now going forward for the next 12 months, like, how are you going to bring media scaling up to 10 million a year, maybe Right beyond?

Logan Forsyth:

there. So the plan is to just continue to invest into our team, really pour into them, train with them. We've gotten just so much better and continuing to get better Recruiting and placing great talent in the first place, like it truly is the people first over all else, so that's the biggest focus. And then, when you have great people, your operations improve, your fulfillment improves, your attention improves. That all grows the business. You have better case studies, more clients refer you to more people and then your marketing improves as a result. Your sales improves because people are coming in so warm already, so it just grows and snowballs everything. So it's really pouring into our team and continuing to recruit the best talent out there and just do amazing job like be very, very client focused as well, do an amazing job for them to have just better and better retention. That leads to these bigger results. And then another big leap is going into the enterprise space as well.

Darren Lee:

So that's going to be huge. That's going to be super, super cool to observe and I'm actually looking forward to seeing about 50 accounts pop up for Aston Martin.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah.

Darren Lee:

And just run across the entire game Because no one's doing it. That's seriously the most new and novel thing.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, we're going to do it. There's massive opportunity in that space.

Darren Lee:

Man, I want to say a big thank you, man. This was so sick, it was great to meet in person. And, yeah, man, it's just, you're creating a new paradigm for content and there's gonna be more and more of these accounts pop up. So, yeah, man, I want to say a big thank you.

Logan Forsyth:

Yeah, no thanks for having me on this is awesome. You're great, as always. Love the way you lead the conversations.