Kickoff Sessions
Weekly podcast episodes with the sharpest minds in the world to help you live a richer & more fulfilling life.
Previous guests include Luke Belmar, Justin Waller, Sahil Bloom, Gad Saad, Peter Schiff, Stirling Cooper, Jack Hopkins, Sadia Khan, Matt Gray, Daniel Priestley, Richard Cooper, Justin Welsh, Arlin Moore and more.
Kickoff Sessions
#273 Ravi Abuvala - The ONLY System You Need To Make $100k/month
Watch This NEXT: https://youtu.be/dkixSG4hVRI
Ravi Abuvala revealed the biggest reason why most entrepreneurs never scale past $100K/month—and exactly how to fix it.
The best part?
I recorded the entire conversation—so you can implement these systems and scale faster.
If you’re stuck in your business…
If you’re struggling to remove bottlenecks…
If you feel like you’re doing too much and seeing too little results…
This episode is for you.
This podcast with Ravi is a step-by-step roadmap to:
- Build scalable systems that free you from daily operations
- Eliminate inefficiencies and automate growth
- Reach $100K+ months without burnout
Here’s what you don’t need:
- You don’t need a big team
- You don’t need to be everywhere at once
- You don’t need to overcomplicate your business
If you’re serious about scaling efficiently, this episode will change the way you think about growth.
————————————————————————————————————————
Chapters:
(00:00) Preview and Intro
(01:35) How Systems Unlock Business Growth
(02:39) The First Time Ravi Discovered Systems Thinking
(05:12) Eliminate, Automate, Delegate: The 3-Step Process
(07:39) Why Personal Systems Matter More Than Business Systems
(10:52) The Hidden Cost of Wasting Time on Low-Value Tasks
(15:24) The Real Difference Between 10K/Month and 100K/Month Businesses
(18:46) Why Most Businesses Overcomplicate Their Sales Process
(21:30) The “Simple Selling System” That Scales to $1M+/Month
(25:26) Paid Ads vs. Organic Content: Which One Actually Works?
(29:05) How to Track Sales & Marketing Data Like a 9-Figure CEO
(32:13) The Key to Creating Content That Actually Converts
(36:57) The Exact Framework for Fixing Bottlenecks in Your Business
(44:15) How to Diagnose and Solve the Biggest Constraint in Your Growth
(48:55) The Ultimate Framework for Testing & Optimizing Sales Funnels
(54:07) How to Filter Out Low-Quality Leads and Close More Deals
(56:50) Final Thoughts & Next Steps
The reason why they don't get past 100k a month is that they don't have a simple selling system. They have just like sporadic ways that they are acquiring clients, and it's like six different methods and all of them could work. But the problem between 10 and 100k is almost always it's not that you're not doing enough, it's that you are doing too many different things. If I use a system here, my life will be easier. I'll either make more money, I'll get more time, et cetera, et cetera. And so now it's like to the ultimate extreme because I've just been rewarded. Every single time I build a system, I live more of my what I like to call my maximum life.
Darren Lee:Most entrepreneurs hit a ceiling because they're stuck in their own business, trapped in sales operations and never ending tasks. Ravi Avola built a multi seven figure business by doing the opposite removing bottlenecks, automating processes and creating systems that scale. Without him. The real difference between a stressed out founder and a true business owner is the right systems. Learn how to eliminate inefficiencies, automate growth and scale past 100k a month without burnout. Where I'd love to start is if you look at your content from the outset, it's super polished. Even like the way you speak is super polished, like you're super dialed in the way that your brain works is like super logical. To me, that system's mentality wasn't always there. Right, there's something that drove you to make that change, to become super oriented, and that's what gave me that huge success. What do you think the catalyst was for you to move more into this? Like huge system thinking which has caused, like this, monumental growth in the business. It's a good question.
Ravi Abuvala:I think for me, I'm a huge feedback loop guy, so I do an action, I measure the reaction from that action and then I iterate and either do that same action again or make an adjustment, and a lot of whatever nominal success that I've had success being defined as whatever people want to but I would say is attributed to keeping very tight feedback loops as possible so I can iterate as quickly as possible. Very tight feedback loops as possible so I can iterate as quickly as possible. And for me, systems like I think I first got introduced to systems in the four hour work week I had an, I had a social media marketing agency and I was starting to make some money online and I wanted to do the whole four hour work week travel the world, blah, blah, blah. And I ended up doing that. I lived in Columbia, I lived in Spain, we were talking about that a moment ago. Doing that, I lived in Columbia, I lived in Spain, we were talking about that a moment ago and I would learn okay, I can automate this thing here, I can build an SOP right here, I can give this to a VA, and so I would do that and as soon as I did it I know this sounds so simple, but it would work right, I would no longer have to do that task anymore.
Ravi Abuvala:And I just was like, oh my God, first it started with lead generation, then it became client fulfillment, then it became operations, then, after I had, like, my business really dialed, um, I started looking at my personal life and I was like, okay, what about emails? What about dinner reservations? What about, um, uh, trips that I go on now, and so all which, ironically enough, I think, a lot of people should actually systemize their personal life first, before business. But I did the opposite, and so over time, it just was, I would implement a system and essentially, as one of my clients puts it, you just never have to think about that problem ever again. And so to me it just became this ultimate unlock where it was like, if I use a system here, my life will be easier. I'll either make more money, I'll get more time, etc. Etc. And so now, like you had said, it's like to the ultimate extreme, because I've just been rewarded. I'm like a rat with like cocaine. I've just been rewarded. Every single time I build a system, I live more of my what I like to call my maximum life.
Ravi Abuvala:And now it's the point. You know I make Instagram reels about this, but you know I haven't charged my toothbrush in four years. Because I created a system. I was like I don't like charging my teeth. I always, you know, brush my teeth. It dies. I'm like, oh my God.
Ravi Abuvala:Then I got to manually do the brushing, which is just so funny. This will be a good clip if you pull that out, but I just like it's such so inefficient to manually brush compared to the electric brush does it once every two weeks. And so I just I guess it's that I'm that rat with the cocaine and it just has been so I've been rewarded so many times with it. And then I'm continuously also, I guess, validated when I read a really great book and I actually love his work is Naval Ravikant and he wrote the almanac, and so he talks about the four types of leverage there. And so I'm just continuously kind of validated in the sense of, okay, to get to really one of the places I want to go, which is like what I would consider financial success, I have to keep on increasing my dollar per hour and essentially be working on higher and higher leverage activities, and the only way to do that is through systems.
Darren Lee:You mentioned that people should start with their personal life before they systematize their professional life. I bet that's because of, like, simplification and to improve focus, but what's your approach towards that? Like, where do you begin in that regard? Just want to take one quick break to ask you one question have you been enjoying these episodes? Because, if you have, I'd really appreciate if you subscribe to the channel so that more people can see these episodes and be influenced to build an online business this year. Thank you work week.
Ravi Abuvala:He always talks about the three steps in the order should be eliminate, automate and delegate. So I always take things in that, in that order. So there's things that I'm doing on a day to day basis that I could eliminate, then I'll always do that first. A great example is we just moved into my dream house here in Miami and I used to live on the other side of the wall. So I'm in Miami Beach, I used to live in Miami and the gym I used to go to, which I love I've been there for four years. It's on the other side and I did a week of it, but once I moved, going there. But the problem is it's a 30 minute drive, so it's 30 minute there, 30 minute on the way back. I'm working out for an hour and a half, or I could just go to my gym. That's at my place right here and sure I might not be as motivated, blah, blah, blah. But I save an hour every single day and I can like fit it in wherever I need to. And so that was a great example of elimination. I just eliminated, I just canceled my gym membership. Obviously I could easily afford one, but I just canceled it and I went to the one at my complex right here, which is a beautiful gym, so I eliminated that time in my day.
Ravi Abuvala:So the first thing is always what are you doing every single day that you could easily eliminate? That just doesn't make that much sense. The second thing is obviously automate. So I know this sounds so silly, but like thermostats, I hated every single day changing the thermostat when I wanted to go to bed. It was cool. Then I would forget we'd be out late at dinner. I'd come home, I wanted to go to bed in 30 minutes, but the house was still 74 degrees. So I bought nest thermostats everywhere. And so now they cool starting at five o'clock. It brings it all the way down to when I go to bed at nine. It's at uh, it's at 69 degrees. The my, all my lights in my house turn red at eight o'clock to start promoting like sleep. We have these automations.
Ravi Abuvala:I really love candles and so we bought this candle warmer that's plugged into this Alexa thing. So at six o'clock at night it starts playing classical music around my house and then it starts lighting these candles using these candle warmers, and so it's like I mean, it's crazy, it's like having like a I don't know like a hotel in my house essentially, with all these things, and it's all automated, it's all happens automatically. And then so those things everybody could do for like I don't know a few hundred dollars. And then the final thing is delegation, and this is really where you're going to get the biggest bang for your buck. But it obviously costs more money, but people would be shocked right.
Ravi Abuvala:For roughly 15 to $25 an hour you can hire what's known as a house manager, and even if they only come five to 10 hours a week, they can pretty much get rid of everything that you just don't want to do in your day to day life. So for me, like I said earlier charging my toothbrush, filling up my gas, washing my cars and it's not like they're washing my cars, they're just taking my car to go get washed doing my laundry, doing my meal preps, cleaning my house, returning Amazon packages it's just like any little thing that I just don't want to do. They come in and do it, and for me, I just live with my fiance and our nine month old puppy, so it's not like they're here seven days a week. She's here two days a week for probably five hours a day, and she just takes care of all those things for me. And so at that point, I don't think about anything in my day-to-day personal life, and I just get to. You know, in my life manifesto, which we're, you know, ibrahim shout out to him. He introduced us together.
Ravi Abuvala:I talked about that on my podcast with him. One of the things I said is that, you know, we're living in our dream house, and we're living in it, we're not maintaining it. So my goal is not to want to live in the house, I just want to wake up every single day and just live in it, not not maintain it. Um, and then the final step would be like an executive assistant, right, and, uh, that's also a little bit more expensive than a house manager.
Ravi Abuvala:Once again, though, if you're trying to be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, you got to kind of buy back your time a little bit, and the executive assistant can do a little bit more higher leverage stuff, like planning all of your trips and organizing, uh like dinners and meetups that you're going to, and, um, you know, I have recurring schedules with my masseuse, and every two weeks I get my beard trim, my haircut, and you know, and so she coordinates all that stuff together. So that's like the order of operations. I would take it and then you can just be like as little as possible, or you can take it like me and just go to the absolute extreme. But I think if you end up doing a little bit of it, what happens is you'll just like I said, you'll be rewarded, you'll have more free time, you'll be less stressed and all the things that you hated doing are now not only getting done, but they're getting done way better than you ever would have done it yourself.
Darren Lee:That's the key, that's the big key. There is the fact that you were actually not that good at doing laundry and cleaning up after yourself. That's the reality, right? And I think, and you can also play that game. So I think you know, just because this sets you up for other aspects of your life, like before I was like playing on internet entrepreneur. I was an athlete, I was a bodybuilder, I was doing a ton of other different stuff, mainly to do a sport. But that's all systems the way you go to the gym in bodybuilding, how you show up in the gym, your training, your recovery, your sleep, your food Like before, I could afford to get someone to make food for me.
Darren Lee:I'd have to reiterate and iterate every single meal. Does that make sense? So you can just basically do that in a micro approach and do the laugh about the nine, the nine-year-old puppy you have, because I have three dogs and I've gone up to five or six dogs in my villa and, to your point, we have a cleaner five days a week, sorry, six days a week, and we didn't have one on the seventh, and I remember it used to frustrate me because I'd wake up and I'd be working and it'd be like 11 am place a bit of a mess, you five fucking dogs and, like I said, why don't we just get another cleaner? So now we have one for the morning, we have one for the evening, and living in asia, you can do that, right, you can do it.
Darren Lee:So instead of saying oh, looking down on it and being like, oh, we need to get on with it and just put your head down and do it. You can find ways around it. You can live in better places, like in Miami. You're going to be able to find that resource as well to help you. That's the beauty of it. Does that make sense? And then we can move on to the actual opportunity that's staring in front of you. Because when you really dissect someone's time, but how they go and get their goals, it's all spent on the bullshit, right, let alone like getting to 10K, 100k, a million a month. A lot of the time is wasted. Now I would say, just to counter, my own argument is that people have children and when they have children, that's part of their own life mission and so on, so forth.
Ravi Abuvala:But you have to understand that that's going to be a big proponent of your life too, right, and how much time you allocate towards that, but, but even with it, even with the children, though I I you know so I don't have kids and I might trigger some of your listeners here but one of my closest friends, his name's Carlton Dennis Um, and he just had a baby, and I love how he does it because and I've always thought this but he was the first really close friend of mine to have a kid that I could see in an action. But he has like two nannies with him, one in the daytime and one in the nighttime overnight. It's called, I think, a night nurse or a wet nurse, and his wife, cause they run a business together. His wife was back working uh three weeks after they had the baby. Uh was working in the business and she wanted to and she was happy to because they had both of this help.
Ravi Abuvala:And so personally I don't have kids and I know that I could. I'm going to eat these words in the future. So I'm I'm not like I'm not ignorant here, but I am saying that I know enough people that use help when they're raising kids, and I think some people like to die on the cross of like I like to invest every second into my kids and like that's what's best, but in reality, at least in my opinion, it's the same way in business, if you look at it. First, principles wise, and what really, in my opinion, you should be doing is hiring help, if you can, to take care of all the shit that you don't want to do and that may be frustrates you and stresses you about the kids, and then you can just spend quality time with the kids, right?
Ravi Abuvala:So, even though my buddy has these two nannies with them and I understand that people have to have I have to put all these disclosures so that people don't leave you bad reviews online but like they have these nurses, but then they also spend an incredible amount of quality time with their baby, right? Instead of spending all day with the baby, but only a little bit of quality time with them. So for me, that's what that same thing with a dog dog. We have a dog walker that comes in as well every single day. So it's like it's like this kind of stuff allows me to. I'm not trying to outsource living my life. I'm trying to outsource maintaining my life, and then I can do the things that are the most quality.
Darren Lee:In my opinion, highest use, use of my dude, are you familiar with sahil bloom and his writing?
Ravi Abuvala:yeah, he's a buddy of mine. Yeah, he's a.
Darren Lee:I've had a second podcast when I'm in new york, but two months ago. His book, five pillars of wealth, five pillars of life, five years of wealth, is coming out soon and it's exactly about that right, which is the quality time spent versus the quantity we could say. The reason why I love podcasts is because we can sit here across the world and really connect with each other. Our phones aren't together, but if we were in a coffee shop I would be checking my phone, checking slack, some email, some refunds coming in, right, there's all this shit, basically that distracts us. And then we think, oh, me and ravi had a good lunch, but we actually didn't. And that's the same with your partner, dude, right like me and elise.
Darren Lee:We live together, but I work my.
Darren Lee:I call my office the dungeon just because it's like a old style, like hormosy dungeon.
Darren Lee:It's very small, there's no lights in there, but when I leave the dungeon we're just hanging out, we're talking about each other, we're learning more about each other, we're not throwing each other's bullshit onto one another, and that's what relationships can be, that's what friendships can be, unless you have those boundaries in place, and that's a very important listen to for how you, how you play your game right, how you're actually going to play the game as well within your business.
Darren Lee:Agreed, 100%, dude. I think what would be good for this is we could frame maybe like an avatar in a scenario, and I think a really cool scenario would be like where the gaps are between a 10K a month entrepreneur and a 100K a month entrepreneur, like what truly is the gap, and I think if you were to observe that at a high level, because you get a lot of people coming in, where's the, the bleeding neck problem that you would like to solve initially when someone comes in that scenario yeah, so I think the the business model is going to determine it quite a bit, but let's say so.
Ravi Abuvala:Like you said, we, you know we've helped a lot of people go from 10k a month to over 100 quite a bit, but let's say so, like you said, we've helped a lot of people go from 10K a month to over 100K a month. And our typical avatar coaches, consultants, agencies, online service providers, people that sell something for greater than $2,500 so they can make a decent amount of cash upfront and they have a large enough total adjustable market that they can create content or run ads online and close these clients. For me, those people, the reason why they don't get past $100K a month is, to quote the book Ready Fire Aim is that they don't have a simple selling system, right, so they have just like sporadic ways that they are acquiring clients and it's like six different methods. And I think one of the issues about in my personal but I was actually talking about this on my boat yesterday to somebody else but like I don't really read any books that much anymore on like business stuff and I don't really listen to any podcasts anymore on business stuff, because what I found was when I was listening to a lot of stuff all the time, I would get all this conflicting information that would be downloaded in my brain and then I would, because of, like I'd said earlier, I'm a really big implementer or feedback loop person I would be going and starting like 50 different projects trying, oh, let's do, let's do podcasts, let's do content, let's do ads, let's do you know a cold email, let's do outbound setters, let's do 100 different things, and and all of them could work.
Ravi Abuvala:But the problem between 10 and 100k is almost always it's not that you're not doing enough, it's that you are doing too many different things, and so your energy is really spread across multiple different things. And oh, I got to hire a client and someone said I need to write like I heard somebody the other day at 20K a month, they have a director of operations, like that's. That's legitimately laughable that you would have someone titled a director of operations at $20,000 a month, at least in our industry. And uh, you know I'm not knocking anybody here, because the majority of the time it's, it's a, it's naivete, it's they just don't know any better, right? And so in reality, I personally strongly believe that, at least in my industry, you can get to 100 grand a month, 10 times out of 10 by yourself, maybe with one other person inside your business, right, it's really not. If you're selling something for five grand, right, it's not that hard to get to add in 30 days in a month to get to 100 grand a month, now you might be working a lot.
Ravi Abuvala:But I think that when I talk to some of my clients, they're at 15, 20 grand. They got four salespeople, two setters, two clients, test managers, a director of operations. I'm just like dude. You're that feedback loop that I talked about earlier where you're trying to keep it as tight as possible. It's impossible because maybe you're creating this piece of content, the setter speaking to them, the salesperson is speaking to them, and you're not involved in that process whatsoever. So you're not really even able to see what's about what's being validated, what's working, what's not working.
Ravi Abuvala:So for me to get to 100k a month, it's not about the offer. I can tell you the ugliest, stupidest, dumbest offers get to 100 grand a month. It's not about how good your product is. It's literally just about having a simple, scalable selling system. And if you double click inside that, I think the other issue is some people are doing some selling systems like, let's say, cold email or cold DMS, that it is possible to get to a hundred grand a month. But once again, that's where you get a lot of that complexity and you have to hire a bunch of team members because it's a slog. You know it's like it's not, it's, there's no leverage there. You have to send a thousand emails to get you know, to send a thousand emails to get you know, uh, to send a thousand emails and to get 10 responses, blah, blah, blah.
Ravi Abuvala:Where, let's say, content, I'm a, I'm a huge proponent of content. Obviously you are as well, and so you, we, you and I can create this one video here. Maybe somebody listens to it and maybe I get a few clients from it, right, and but it also doubles as me giving goodwill in the marketplace for all the people that listen to this that don't become clients of mine as well, and it creates goodwill with you as well, in case you and I ever do business in the future together. And then also it helps my brand, it grows my brand, I can use this on my own platforms, and so for this one investment hour of my time doing something that personally I love to do. I would do this anyway if you and I were just sitting down talking. I can have all of these different impacts to my business and to my personal life, and so that's I think the biggest difference between 10 and 100k is that they're not thinking. Number one let me focus on just building this simple sellable system, this marketing system, and let me duplicate it over and over and over again. And then the second thing is let me make it as scalable as possible, because if you get a really dialed in, let's say, cold email system, that's going to break at 50, maybe a hundred grand a month, versus just getting the more scalable things down, either ads or content and just most people are intimidated by ads, getting that down really well in the very beginning.
Ravi Abuvala:Um, and then, you know, I just spoke at this mastermind, jordan Welch's mastermind, two Saturdays ago. There's these guys in there just to drive this point home. You know, I speak up and all these guys come up and we're talking afterwards. They're doing 750 grand a month, 1.2 million a month, 1.5 million a month, and it's just them, or it's them and one other person, and it's all because there's these huge content creators and they created this like coaching program or course or service and they have their like, I'm showing them operational stuff, like that. So I was supposed to talk about content, but they all had no idea about anything about data, about operational meetings, how to create an organizational chart, so I'm talking about that the whole time, but that just goes to prove that they legitimately you know I'm not dissing them, but I wouldn't call them like execute operators, like amazing business owners and they're doing legitimately over a million dollars a month, right.
Ravi Abuvala:So, and why? Because they have that simple selling system down. So I just think that most people they get I don't know, maybe it's too many inputs, they watch too many YouTube videos, they're doing too many different things, maybe it strokes their ego if they mistake activity with progress. And so they got oh, I got seven different traffic sources and five different team members, and I think that, if you really like, it's January 2 right now. So if you really wanted to make this year a great year, analyze last year, figure out where every single client came from, whichever one gave you the majority, which is always there's going to be one thing. Then just build an entire system around that. How do you automate it? How do you duplicate it? How do you delegate it out and make it so that it works for you 24 seven?
Darren Lee:Dude, isn't that so wild how it goes back to the mean curve meme of like make great content, sell simple stuff. Make great content, sell simple stuff. And in the middle you like go high level, zapier and everything in between. It just can be that easy once there's a very clean level. And then, of course, you can add on as you improve your business overall, like as you fill in the gaps. But it's just interesting because I guess you know every offer is not created equal and every like model is not created equal when people go to execute it. So let me give an example. You know we've had my podcast, which has helped so much for similar to you which are YouTube is as someone discovers you. They click on Ravi's YouTube. They're like, oh, this guy's not a robot. They click his video.
Ravi Abuvala:I think, oh, he's definitely not a robot, and then they go back into his IG no-transcript, because content to me is a multiplier, right, in the sense that it can acquire clients on your own. Plenty of times that's like what we help clients do and it works very, very well. But then if you're able to use it as a multiplier in the sense that you have some other traffic source and that one maybe is a little bit more scalable, a little bit more turn the knob where it's like I send more cold emails, I spend more money on ads, that's a little bit better than content, in the sense that content just posting more content is not actually the ultimate form of leverage, right. So content, the ultimate form of leverage, is quality. How much? How quality is the content, the ideation process, the packaging? It's ironic because what most people do is they come from ads or cold email or cold LinkedIn or something else like that, when the solution to that is just more Okay, we want more clients to send more messages, and then they take it and they apply that same principle to content, when content is not a more asset, it is a quality asset. So you know and this is coming from I'm not on the soapbox here this is from me screwing up my content for years, not understanding it and then now bashing myself in the head thinking about how much wasted time like, I spend one 10th the amount of time I did previously on my content, and my content now gets 10 times the amount of views as I did before because I was just literally bullheading it before. So content is a multiplier in the sense that if you use this other turn the knob thing where the answer is more, more ads, spend more messages, then what happens is nine times out of 10, those people will click on your Google, your name, or click on your profile or something, and then consume some of your contents. And so if they click on your stuff, google you whatever else it is, and you have no content to serve up to them, then what happens is you lose to your competitors that do have that 10 times out of 10. And what I've seen a lot happen a lot of the times is people will bring awareness to a marketplace like they'll create this offer, they'll create this ad and they'll create this VSL, this webinar, and they'll be spending all this money and they're just extracting the bottom, like 2% of people that are ready to buy right then and there. But then when people are like, oh, wow, I didn't know that that was a thing. And then they go YouTube it or Google it. Well then, the person that actually has the videos that show up there. They're pretty much stealing this person's hard earned money and traffic. Because now, who are they going to buy from the person they saw one ad from the introduction of the concept, or the person that they have now consumed five YouTube videos, six reels on? They've spent four or five hours of their time together, right, and so that's why I think content is a multiplier, so I love both of them together.
Ravi Abuvala:You had talked about cold email or LinkedIn messaging. I think that's totally doable, but once again, for me I would rather. I think the holy grail, and I think if you talk to any eight or nine-figure entrepreneur, they will say the same thing. I think the holy grail is paid traffic and organic content, and so cold email and LinkedIn does work well, there's no doubt about it. But if you can kind of break stuff down into unit economics and you can figure out okay, my lifetime value is this amount of money, uh, and my cost of goods sold is this amount of money, so I can spend this much on marketing and you kind of build a marketing system and advertising system around that. To me the people that are listening to this right now and you're like man, I'm at 20 grand a month and I want to be at 200 grand a month this year you could maybe do that to cold email, but if you spent the time guaranteed, you could do that through paid advertising. But the problem is most people are too afraid to do that.
Darren Lee:Before we go any further, I have one question for you. Do you want to generate more leads for your business? Well, I've put together an entire system how anyone can use a podcast to generate more leads for their business, and the best part is, you don't even need a podcast to get started. I've created an entire guide and framework for you to be able to get more guests, more clients, more customers, more people in your pipeline and generate more revenue. This exact system is available right in the description down below, and you'll be able to leverage a podcast to generate more leads for your business and be able to increase your exposure, increase your authority and increase your influence in your industry. So check that out right down below and we'll let's get into that even next right, because I think what's so funny is me coming from like the content creator world. That makes you really fucking good at making clear content and clear ads. Like you can make very specific ads, you can have good tonality, you can have good pacing, you can understand psychology. Like one of my great mates and works with us, tom, he writes our ad scripts now. Now our ads are not dialed in. I'm not going to pretend they're there, but at the. The same time, I can see it and think, oh okay, like that's from like this psychology book, like I understand, like this what what's happening here. So it's almost like all of your skills come together, like they all collide, whereas I don't think that we should be in this boat where it's like ads are bad and like organic is slow and dms are bad. It like we can look at these things as input, variables into the system, into what we want as the end goal, and I completely agree with you. I think that's the highest point of leverage.
Darren Lee:Before we move on to ads, you mentioned a really good point about how views. You don't think about views as how many views you can get, but instead how much quality views you can get. And I still think in like the make money online space, that's still not understood. Like that was a big switch for me, right? We had this kind of broader content, viral podcasts, like broader spacing, and it just didn't feel right. You know, intuition wise it just didn't really make sense. We made it much more specific, much more helping people who are at that 10, 20, 30k a month mark, and for me it's fantastic because it's much more aligned to like what I enjoy, and then it also helps the user. Like, how do you think about that? Because yours is super specific and, as a result, you're dialing in your views for the right amount of people you need in your offer.
Ravi Abuvala:Yeah, so for me. So we're a huge and attribution company. I'm a huge data company and we do it, for every decision we make is based off of data. So I think what makes us in a unique position and the reason why I can sit here and make these statements is because, as far as I know, in our space, we're really we're the first people to and still continuously do get a lot of data from our organic sources.
Ravi Abuvala:So I work with some really big names, like Jeremy Miner, some huge organic presence online, and they have zero or at least they used to have like really zero organic attribution tracking. In this sense, at the level that we have, they're pretty much like yeah, we know that we get 1000s of calls from our content, but they couldn't say it's this post, it's this thing, and so we really, about three years ago, went really deep into creating individual links for all of our different either stories or LinkedIn bio or our YouTube videos with different attribution names to them, and so we could start to tell which videos that we created led to sales calls, led to qualified sales calls and ultimately led to sales. And so once I could identify that these videos here 100% were leading to sales for our business, then I could just say, well, let me just make more videos about that topic there that is leading us to more sales. And, ironically enough, the videos that were leading us to more sales it was not the vlog style stuff. It wasn't the this is what I do on my plane stuff. It wasn't the lifestyle stuff Even though people were die on that hill 10 times out of 10, it was, you know, to your credit, when we were talking, before this camera started going. It was the incredibly detailed, boring presentation, google doc style videos where I was literally just walking through and showcasing my expertise to people and they'd book a call and buy, you know, and some of our products go up to $50,000. So people were watching three, four videos and paying in full $50,000 to work with us from YouTube.
Ravi Abuvala:And so once I figured out and I'll kind of maybe go a little bit deeper on this, but in my opinion, content is really too big has two big elements One is the topic and one is the packaging and most people mix these two things up. They think of the same thing, or what they do is they just copy other people's topic and packaging and they wonder why it doesn't convert for them. Well, nevermind the fact that really nobody is tracking their sales where it's coming from, so people are just kind of copying everybody together. It's a little bit of a excuse my French here, but it's a little bit of a circle jerk in the sense that, oh, that person's posting it, it's got a lot of views, let me just get a lot of views. This point of my meeting, exactly that's exactly what it is. And so, instead of you break Topics are what you know is leading to sales, and so you're just talking about that thing over and over again, irregardless of views. So you don't care if you get 100 views or 1,000 views or 5,000 views, because you know that this, every time I talk about blank, I make money. So then you just want to talk about it as much as possible.
Ravi Abuvala:And then what you want to do is you want to learn the packaging game. And this is really where that, when everyone you know, for years I couldn't figure, everyone's like oh, just make quality content, just make quality content, just give it away, just give it away. People told me that for years, and if you've watched any of my YouTube videos, we're talking hour and a half long videos of me. I mean, it takes me a week to prepare and I'm giving up. There's no way I could give away more than I give away on my YouTube channel, and still I wasn't getting the views that I knew were possible, because my marketplace is greater than 5,000 people or 8,000 people, and so for the longest time I was like, oh well, that's just because it's really specific content.
Ravi Abuvala:Until about a year and a half ago I learned about packaging and then I realized oh, if I can just make my video more appealing to the user, the end user, if I can package it up well and make it more digestible in a format that they're going to want to click on, that plays in that little dopamine receptor that they have, then I'm going to get more clicks and more views and more sales. And so most people do it backwards to forward or forwards to backwards. They say what's going to give me the most views? Let me create a video on that, where what I do is I go backwards and forwards and I say what's going to get me the most sales, and then how do I get as many views to that as humanly possible? And I do that through packaging.
Darren Lee:Okay, there's so much part to unpack here in the packaging. So if you're familiar with Brett Malinowski our podcast was exactly on this which is you start with offer and then you, when the offer is defined, you open up youtube. You open up your youtube channel because then you reverse engineer what that offer is. And that's basically like how iman did it. If he just had the offer and then he was like reverse sma and then he had a second channel for his lifestyle and he had the gadget glasses and he was reverse engineering. What would someone buy? Glasses, solid logic. Now you mentioned around the tracking of it. Okay, how, what software to use for tracking? How is that done? How does that work? So I've seen the links on our story and I that's about. My first question was like how the fuck is this done?
Ravi Abuvala:uh, so we use, uh, the main software we use is hyros. So I've been using Hyros. I was probably one of the first users in Hyros I've been using. I'm probably one of the largest affiliates too, because we just send a lot of clients through it. But we use Hyros, which is it essentially takes whatever tracking you can do.
Ravi Abuvala:It's called UTM parameters. I'm not going to get too nerdy into it because 99% of people here probably don't care, but it essentially, whenever somebody clicks on a link, you can create this user on the URL. You can create this almost ID with the name of the platform. So it would say UTM content equals YouTube. And then it could be which profile. So UTM profile equals Ravi. And then you can go more specific and say the video, and the video was the self sustaining funnel or why YouTube is now an easy mode for business owners. And then whenever they go to your website, that cookie and they book a call, it essentially reads that URL parameter and says Okay, we just booked a call. What does it say in the parameter? Oh, it says that it came from YouTube, ravi's profile.
Ravi Abuvala:Youtube is now on easy mode, video, video and stores all that together and then we automate that send that to our CRM. So then when we're creating reports, I can easily just create a report and say so. For example, year to date in our company, 50% of our sales the last thing they did before they booked, before they became a client, was they watched a YouTube video, because we have the data to show that and so, even though we run a bunch of ads and we do a bunch of stuff podcasts, everything everywhere else most people just end up on my YouTube, and so that's why we continue to invest inside of our YouTube channel, and I started YouTube in 2019 when my Facebook I was spending about 150 grand a month on Facebook ads and this was back in the wild, wild west of Facebook ads. And then, all of a sudden, they started doing just crazy hammer bans and lifetime bans on everybody, and, if I'm being transparent, I don't think that my today's standards, my copy definitely wasn't compliant, but nobody's was, and so then I got a ban on Facebook and I had going back to what we said earlier.
Ravi Abuvala:I had built up, I had multiple salespeople and centers and client-sense managers, and so it wasn't like I could be like oh well, I'll figure it out. It was like I have to feed this team that is now relying on me and my company, and so I started a YouTube channel. But even though that started feeding my team and I started getting deals before we had the tracking in place, I just kind of took it as like, oh, let me just do this content Whenever I get the chance on the weekends I'll make a video. I just never put any energy into it. But then, once we really started tracking the data and we started seeing how much money we were making from YouTube, then it started being like, okay, well, what if this is really the decision I made in Q3 of the? Well, now it's last year, since it's the second.
Ravi Abuvala:But at Q3 of last year I said you know what? This quarter I'm going to devote fully to really mastering the content game, investing into content, researchers and a content producer. And it's really shown as far as October, the beginning of Q3 was actually one of the biggest months we had all year. I think it was the biggest months we had all year and it was all from organic content. It was all from our YouTube channel and Instagram. So we use Hyros to do the tracking and then we read that inside of our CRM to be able to say remember, it's not just what's getting views or what's getting leads or what's getting calls, it's what's getting the most qualified calls, what's leading to the highest closes and other people that close, who's paying the most upfront and end up being the best clients. And then you just recreate that whole process over and over again.
Darren Lee:Dude, that level of reporting is wild. I'm just thinking from a data perspective. Like I worked at a high growth startups in my early 20s like the equivalent of cash app, let's say, in europe and they were data companies, like that's basically what they were their data houses and they used to have like data scientists, data engineers, and I'm thinking about how these were created, and it doesn't even sound like it's that this level of sophistication, because you're able to split everything out right, like it's pretty advanced.
Ravi Abuvala:It's pretty advanced like you, you almost need you. Like you almost need a full-time person, like we have a full-time data person yeah, you need a data analyst, basically yeah, exactly okay, so how?
Darren Lee:because one question I wanted to ask you on this was like you have a funnel, it's set up, it's running from ig, you're making some sales, but how do you know what point of the funnel is broken and how do you diagnose that? Now I think I know your answer after our conversation, but I want to frame this. But I had a conversation with a woman just today who's running a multi nine figure business. She's like head of growth and they're doing like 235 million a year and because of their budget and their business, they're able to track and split tests like VSLs from seven minutes to six minutes to five minutes to 13 minutes and then run like workshops on X, Y, Z. They basically have everything split tested. And I asked her how and she just goes because we have the budget to do it. That was basically it and I can tell you the company afterwards. But how do you think about that? Or like, how would someone diagnose where their breaking points are in their funnel? So for me.
Ravi Abuvala:I follow two main frameworks when it comes to constraints in a business and then testing and solving those constraints. So the first is known as the theory of constraints. I'm actually writing a book on it right now. It's probably this cornerstone of how I grow and scale the 3,000 plus businesses that we've worked with so far. It's a very simple concept, but essentially, you'll identify whatever is the greatest constraint in your business and um and you solve it and then you'll unlock another constraint from there. The best way I illustrate this is um.
Ravi Abuvala:One of my longest term clients has been a client of mine for three years now. Um, he was like, was like Hey'm, I'm, I'm not going to renew with you guys, I've worked with you for two and a half years. There's this other guy I want to work with and he's telling me the reason I can't get past you know we took it from zero to over 250 grand a month is the reason I can't get above 250 grand a month is because, um, I need, uh, more setters. I need setters. That's the. And I was like okay, I respect that. Whatever you want, we are grateful for your business. But just to be clear, let's pull out the data and look at your business and when we looked at everything, it was obvious that his biggest bottleneck was he didn't have enough salespeople. Because he didn't have enough appointment space on the calendar, you physically couldn't book within the next two days. He was booked out five, six, seven, eight days. And so I was like, okay, so the theory of constraints would tell us that if you solve the setter problem, you're still going to be constrained because you're just going to get more appointments for a calendar that you already are too filled on. And he ended up um, yeah, I actually met him in Miami. He ended up being like, look, I respect that, I'm going to go do it.
Ravi Abuvala:Long story short, went over there four months later, came back and was like, dude, now I lost the center that I hired because they weren't making enough money, because they weren't able to set appointments that actually could show up on the calendar. And she was like I know, I need to hire a salesperson. Then we hired a salesperson and then he was able to scale to half a million dollars a month because the constraint and the order of operations was let's not, it's not a traffic problem, it's not an appointment problem, it is a calendar space problem. So let's hire a salesperson first and then, once we hire the salesperson, then we can hire the setters, and so most people.
Ravi Abuvala:Number one they aren't able to even identify the right constraints in their business, which is what that data tracking is for in the first. That's why you need data, so you can just clearly see that's the constraint. And then the second thing is they don't know the right order of operation. So, so arguably every person listening to this that takes sales calls, we all have a constraint of not enough sales calls. So, like that's every you could, you could always have more sales calls, right, and so that's always a constraint. But you need to make sure. Is that the first contrarianity to solve? Or is it because I have a shitty product? Is it because I have a bad offer? Right, and so that's those could be real constraints that you solve first. So most people don't, can't even identify it, and second of all, they can't even identify which one to do first. So that's the first theory and methodology I use to scale.
Darren Lee:Can we stay on that for a second? Because that's super important, because, like theory of constraints, is something that most people will not understand, right, I most haven't heard before how do you identify what is the biggest constraint? Because, like everyone will say, like everything is, though, to get me, everyone like I, literally just walk through this, the same formatting I just said a second ago.
Ravi Abuvala:I'm just like, okay, I guess the simplest way to do it is if I solve this, would it? Would it grow the business? That's the simplest way to do it. So, for that, my buddy, my client, if he got another setter, that wouldn't grow the business because the problem was the um, the salesperson. So the simplest way I look at it is like, if I solve this first, because as a CEO, you, your main responsibility is the proper allocation of time, capital and uh and and people, right, and so if you are saying, for example, that company that said that I can afford to do it, right, they're allocating money and I'm sure people ended doing all these tests correctly you could maybe argue that they might even be inefficient, as a lot of companies that are spending a lot of money they kind of just throw money at things. Now, they're way ahead of me, so I'm not even going to act like I'm smarter than these people at all, but I'm just saying that that's why a lot of corporations are really inefficient, because they just throw a lot of, they're not really properly allocating stuff, and so you just need to identify like, okay, if I were to let's say you had unlimited money or unlimited time, if I solve this problem, would it? Would it grow? The business would unlock the next constraint. And the fun thing is is that you're right. There's unlimited amount of constraints. Everything is a constraint in your business, which is why it's not just properly identifying it, but it's doing it in the right order. And that's why some people will be doing 10K a month for two years and then they'll work with us and then, within 30 days, we do the first hundred grand a month. And that's not me trying to brag A lot of times, it's the first thing we do with our clients is we create a data tracking system for them in the last 90 days and then we're able to say, oh, wow, this whole time I thought that I had crappy salespeople.
Ravi Abuvala:But the real problem here is that we have a bad show up rate or that our marketing system is getting unqualified, like they've never had, let's say, an appointment scoring process. So they keep on going and ripping through new salespeople and they, oh, these salespeople suck. These salespeople suck. They have 10% close rate. When we go back and we analyze, let's say, the last 50 closes, they did and wow, okay, out of the 50 closes, let's say, 45 of them had this certain income bracket. They came from this traffic source, they had consumed this much content and it was this style of avatar. And so then, if we make that what our marketing process is attracting and we cancel or curate any appointment that comes on, that's not those people. All of a sudden, those same shitty sales people are closing at 10%, are now closing at 40%. Right, and so that's so. That's that's ultimately really in my opinion. That's why I'm writing this book on this. That's really the key to business growth. It's obviously always easier said than done, but it's making sure you're properly identifying whatever the constraint is.
Darren Lee:I know that's the second point to this, but the sequencing organizing or the order of events is also super important, right? People don't understand the sequence of an offer. You don't just create a VSL and it's done, right, and the offer is done. There's obviously a clear order of sequencing, so you can't solve your. The simple one is you can't solve your closing rate problem if you can't get appointments on the calendar right, like you can't look to examine that problem. Does that make sense? What was the second point? Sorry, before I interrupted you.
Darren Lee:The majority of my guests run content businesses. They've used content as the main element of their business to drive more revenue and build their influence online. We've been doing this through a podcast for many years. We have many guests, clients and even customers use a podcast as their main source of driving more revenue for their business and building their influence online, and we're offering a handful of spots to book in a call with our team to learn how you yes, you can leverage a podcast to generate more revenue for your business and drive your influence online. Many of our clients and customers start from nothing, but each one of them are action takers and they want to learn more about how to build a podcast and a brand right around their business. So if you want to learn more and you're really interested in building a podcast, check out the link down below and book in a free call with our customer success manager and he will guide you into how you can build and generate more revenue from your podcast this year.
Ravi Abuvala:The second point is, once you do identify whatever the constraint is, what will happen is, once again, you have to have the proper allocation of time, energy and people, and so you could think of 50 ways to solve that problem. Right, let's say, for example, that you have a low close rate, like we talked about a second ago. Well, it could be the sales people, it could be the video sales letter, it could be the traffic source. You're doing blah, blah, blah, right, and so you're going to test all these different things. And so the second framework I follow it's called ICS and it lets you know. This is actually we have an Asana board that ranks our marketing test projects, and it ranks things on a scale of one to 30. And it ranks them by. I is important. So how important is this in whatever the goal that we want to achieve? So, nine times out of 10, it's going to be making more money. So how important is this to make more money? So I'll give you an example of something low importance. It would be like split testing what the footer says on a landing page. No one's reading the footer, it doesn't matter. That's probably a zero or a one out of 10. Whereas split testing the video sales letter itself. Well, that's the thing that's educating people before they happen to call. That's probably a 10 out of 10. So I is the first one. C is confident. So how confident are you that if you implemented this test, that it would solve the problem? So going back and saying that, let's say you want to create a new video sales letter and you're thinking, okay, maybe if I made this video sales letter five minutes instead of 15 minutes, then we'd close more deals and we'd get more calls. Well, I don't know how confident I would be because maybe if it's shorter they're not able to be warm enough and because they're not warm enough they're not closing. So that might be a five or a six or a seven on the confidence score.
Ravi Abuvala:And then the final one in ICS is S and that's simplicity. So how simple is it for you to implement the split test? So, going back, let's say, taking a video sales that are from 15 minutes to five minutes, that's not that simple, right? Because you still got to make sure you hit all the key elements inside of it. You got to make sure that you're talking fast enough that you can get the five minutes in, but not so fast that they can't understand what you're saying. You got to reshoot, script it, upload it, edit it, blah, blah, blah, right, so that could be a three on the simplicity scale.
Ravi Abuvala:Where I'm not joking with you, I have had people three times or conversion rate for lead to booking by removing stuff from the sales page. So they had like all this different, a sub headline, a headline, a post headline, a social proof, the video, sales letter, like 50k studies, a sales copy, and I was like, alright, let's just try a headline, a video and a button. And so we just so the test would be to remove everything else and just have that, and that's a 10 out of 10. Simplicity that would take 10 seconds to do. And so then you add up important, confident, simple and whatever has the highest score.
Ravi Abuvala:Those are the ones that you just test first, right, because those are the ones that are the most important, you're the most confident that they're going to convert, and then the simplest to implement. And so you just kind of keep on knocking those down until you get to the maybe the really hard ones to do. But I'd say that seven times out of 10, the ones at the very top, they'll give you enough noticeable of a difference that it actually solves the problem well enough that there's another constraint you need to go look at. So once you go solve close rate, then the new constraint becomes you're not getting enough book calls. So then you go and you apply that same ICS framework to that constraint.
Darren Lee:Dude, this is like the best logic I've ever heard for thinking, thinking true problems. Because, if I think about it as my own offer, because we were like we're always thinking about ways to improve things and of course there's a level of effort to change the vsl, to change this video, to edit it, to script it, to get the cameras out, to do all the fucking bells and whistles. But I'm thinking back to ensure, for months ago, where we had one question or application form which was is at the very, very bottom application form which was working with vox is not free. There's like an investment of like three and a half thousand, a minimum investment of three and a half thousand like confirm yes, no, if you are, if you understand that. And I remember our booking rate was quite low and then we just got rid of that. Remember, one day I was speaking with someone, we just got rid of it, and the next day we just started booking out of more calls because it was a one checkbox that just put people away because they still wanted to get a feel.
Darren Lee:And then we bought people. They were still qualified, they were still being pre -qualified and it was interesting, right, because someone could say that was stupid. Someone could say that's intelligent, but then the data just says it worked in that instance and it's multifactorial too, right. But the more data you track, the more you can have a hypothesis of 95% that it's correct. Talk to me about that element of pre-qualification in sales. So you run up ads, get clicks, people will cause, but again it's fragmented, they're not showing up and whatnot. What method have you used to ensure that people have the right messaging so they know they're showing up to fucking work with you? And and then two, they're coming prepared. They're ready to be spoken to a good sales rep and ready to get started. Like, how do you indoctrinate people in that process?
Ravi Abuvala:Yeah. So the majority of the clients that we work with, they already have somewhat of a successful business, so we don't work with people that are literally just beginners, and so we follow. I know I'm giving a lot of frameworks and strategies here, but we follow something I call the smallest leverage strategy, which is what is the simplest and easiest thing that we can do to grow your business right. And I know that sounds simple, but, once again, majority of people are looking. They've been rewarded in the past for making things as complex as possible, and so they want to do more of it, and so, instead of guessing, okay, this is what we should do. What we do is we I know I'll say this till I die here but we analyze the data. So someone's saying I have a show up rate problem, I have a close rate problem. We do exactly what I said a second ago and we say great, let's go back and look at the last. Whatever data we can do, 10, 20, 30, 50, 100, 300 closes. And the great thing is, you have ChatGPT. Now I go through an insane amount of data through ChatGPT and I essentially look at, of those people that closed, I reverse engineered their entire client journey.
Ravi Abuvala:So who was the sales rep they spoke with? What was the sales script that they use? What was the pre-call sequence that they went through? What was the application answers that they did on the um, on the questions? What was the time frame from when they booked to when they show up? How long was the sales cycle? Was it a one call close? Was it longer than that? Um? What was the marketing message they saw before it? Was it a low ticket product, a video sales letter, a webinar? Uh, what traffic source did they come from? Was it ads? Was it youtube? Was it instagram? And so then, once you right, there's only so many I named, I think, seven or eight there there's only so many different variables that you can get that are like the large variables. Once you identify what those are, then you just duplicate that over and over and over again and you say, okay, great.
Ravi Abuvala:So let's say, for example, that let me give a great example here. You had said it a second ago, but uh, uh, calendar questions or application questions, are one of the things that we work with the most, because most people they're atrocious. Either they have way too many and they have like huge text boxes which are like you grow. You feel like you're in college trying to write a long form essay for to book a call with you. People think like, oh, I have a hundred percent close rate. It's because the only people that are booking, the people that are literally like, okay, I just want to buy from you, I have to go through this stupid process and so they have way too many or they have too few. It's just like naming your phone number and so they're packing their sales teams calendars but they have a 10% close rate because you're dealing with all these unqualified people. So then we pretty much just reverse the process to be able to say, okay, the most qualified people we know for sure, without a doubt. Let me think for one second what's a great example? Okay, I'll give you a great example.
Ravi Abuvala:One of my clients in my mastermind. He had a really low show up rate and it was like 30%, and all these salespeople and let's just say his business wasn't running the way he wanted it to run, and so he came to Miami, we did a VIP day together and I did the same thing with him. We took all the data, we put it through chat DVD, and one example we learned was one of the questions was how much do you know about high ticket sales? Because he was teaching people about how to become a remote closer and it was like first answer was like I don't know anything about high ticket sales, I'm like just getting started. The other one was like I've heard about high ticket sales a few times before and I want to learn more about it. And the other one was I'm already a high ticket closer, I'm an expert on high ticket sales and we learned that if anybody answered the first question, they answered that first answer, which is I don't know anything about it, I'm just learning about it. They had a 30% show up rate and a 3% close rate.
Ravi Abuvala:Okay, and it's ironic because you'd think that people that if he's teaching people like, hey, here's how to be a high ticket closer, you'd think that the best people to get on the calls will people that are just learning about high ticket sales. But in reality I won't go into marketing too much, but their level of awareness was so unaware that that sales process is going to be so much longer trying to teach them oh, here's how to do this, versus the person that already knows somewhat about it and they just want to use your specific methodology. So we immediately removed anybody that answered that question. We took it off. We canceled them off the calendar and immediately he was able to lower his sales team to just his core three reps, instead of having all these super crappy reps in there that are just there to fill calendar space, of having all these super crappy reps in there that are just there to fill calendar space.
Ravi Abuvala:And all of a sudden, all of this marketing messaging. Now we go back top of funnel ads and we start saying, hey, are you a high ticket closer or been thinking about high ticket sales? But blah, blah, blah, and so now we're only attracting people that have already considered that before, and so then we're just reversing during that whole process. So we're taking the thing that we know by data leads to a lot of sales, and then we just keep on pushing it backwards in the funnel until the point that every single thing in the funnel is pretty much attracting and pushing through all the people that we know have the highest chance of booking, showing up, closing and paying in full, because if I look at my contacts, so we're helping podcasters, right, whether it's done for you or done with you.
Darren Lee:When people go from zero, they just don't understand the level of pain, their marketing level awareness or level awareness of how difficult it can be because it's so long form and all this kind of stuff, so they assume that it's so easy. Or when you say that it's this investment, they're like whoa, why would I ever pay that? Because all this investment, they're like whoa, why would I ever pay that? Because all I gotta do is talk to someone. It's like ah right, that's the same with everything. It's the same with running out, it's the same with every different level. So that's why, uh, that's why I love your work, man, so I love your work. Now I know we're running over time, uh, so I want to say a big thank you for this and, to be honest, I think there's a lot of room for room too. Uh, and I also I forgot to say to you as well I know you. You recorded in Drew Drew studio in Miami, right In the move.
Ravi Abuvala:I did yeah, yeah, yeah.
Darren Lee:That's where we recorded a bunch of podcasts. Man, I recorded like six there. Drew's the man.
Ravi Abuvala:Drew is awesome man. That's awesome.
Darren Lee:We have to do round two for the new in that studio. I'd love to. Yeah, you got to come to miami, because I don't know if I'm going to bali anytime soon. I'll be coming to america soon again. My wife is american, so we do spend a bit of time in america, for sure. Um, but I was just in, I was just in miami like two months ago, so definitely we can do like um, I did like six or seven in like a week. Just go in there, you know there's always a good crowd. So yeah, man, I want to say a big thank you. This was sick.
Ravi Abuvala:Dude, absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me on Awesome, awesome podcast and thanks to everybody who tuned in.