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Kickoff Sessions
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Kickoff Sessions
#294 Iman Gadhzi - Behind The Scenes of Iman Gadzhi’s $100M Empire
Watch This NEXT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlK2P76_ZZs
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(00:00) Preview
(00:48) Behind Iman’s $100M Empire
(02:49) How to Build The Right Team
(07:08) Iman’s Greatest Life Lesson
(11:41) What Keeps Iman Humble
(17:37) Personal Branding & Content Strategy
(24:74) Where Iman Gadhzi is Investing
(28:51) Iman’s Path to 9 Figures
(31:58) The Truth About Info Product Industry
(37:57) Best Online Business to Start in 2025
(40:27) Iman’s 9 Figure Business Model
(45:15) Dealing with Hate Online
(48:17) Importance of Hiring the Right People
(53:28) Team Management Tips
(55:58) UK vs US vs Dubai
(01:00:37) Iman Gadhzi’s Ultimate Goal in Life
How do you plan to build an empire and win in 2025?
Iman:A lot of entrepreneurs are not made to make millions a month. They don't have what it takes Like. For example, I have a really really high stress tolerance Really high Whereas if someone else was in my position they would fall apart.
Darren Lee:The reality is, you're going to piss people off no matter what you do, so you may as well know who you're targeting.
Iman:And every hero becomes a villain and then, once you're a villain for long enough, they want to see you become a hero again, and that's also why I'm not emotional about these things. So with my investments, I am super aggressive and if I can't be aggressive, I'm not going to take the deal. If I'm not getting ridiculous, ridiculous terms, I don't take the deal.
Darren Lee:If you had to be remembered for one word, what?
Iman:would that be? I always say this like if info businesses had value, I genuinely believe I'd be a billionaire by now, because all I do is make money in info and invest in info businesses. I don't know if you know this, but there's a guy in there that does 1.4 billiona year with a b. Are you proud of yourself?
Darren Lee:I guess the simple answer is yes, but proud of building any empire, there's always going to be like an opposing force, someone that's going to try to overthrow you at times, especially when you buy their domain and change your domain. So how do you plan to build an empire and win, especially a WAP in 2025?
Iman:we have to focus listen when it comes to WAP specifically, obviously, listen in any company you speak to, even in my businesses, everyone is sort of optimized for different things.
Iman:When it comes to WAP specifically, the thing I'm optimized for the most is payments. Like for me, I want to build the best payment infrastructure of any company out there, because for me that's like short term how we win Long term. Obviously, you know Stephen, who's our CEO, and Cam, like they have much bigger plans for WAP and they see something WAP is this much bigger thing and, quite frankly, they're far more intelligent than I am in those domains, so I kind of you know we leave them to that. Where we really focus on is we know this online, informational, digital product industry better than anyone else and uh, yeah, we just keep growing our payments infrastructure and it shows, you know, uh, month on month, uh, we pretty much. Of course there's some months that's not applicable, but in general, month on month, we grow 20 percent sorry, 10 percent uh, month on month, uh, with how much we're processing on WAP and I don't see that slowing down anytime soon where do you think your zonal genius is in life?
Iman:I'm very pessimistic, funnily enough. So I look at things from a very pessimistic lens and I look at things from a very uh. I think I'm very strategic and I'm very patient and orderly. So, for example, let's say we have this ultimate goal of hitting this thing. I'm like, okay, cool, let's bring that down. What do we need to accomplish in the meanwhile to get to that place? And I said, I'm very pessimistic with things, so I always I like asking my team all the time you know what, what am I not seeing here? Like, with this thing, with this initiative or this thing that we're trying to do, what am I not seeing? And I'm always thinking worst case scenario, because I mean, if it goes better, then it goes better.
Darren Lee:But I was prepared for worst case how do you prepare a team for that? If you're looking at it from the angle of what could go wrong, like, how do you change our viewpoint?
Iman:well, I think there's certain people in the company you shouldn't burden with that. So, for example, anyone that's creative, I think in general, don't try to burden them with what could go wrong. There's certain people who like, for example, me and I'll speak at least at this company, um, or I mean, you know, I can't even introduce uh, yeah, you, you'll be here tomorrow, right, some of that tomorrow. Uh, I'll introduce you. You'll meet my coo, for example, my eyewear business, liz. She's german, like actually I've said this before, but I actually mean it Like I try to hire German COOs. She is like her and Max are the same, right, and that's literally all my businesses.
Iman:I try to hire someone who's basically the stressor. I call them Max. All the Max does is think how could things go wrong? Wow, and think worst case scenario. Okay, what if we forgot this thing? What if we didn't get this? And what if this? What if the upload fails here? What if the? What if this partner of ours cuts our contract with them? Like, all they do all day is basically sit, sit and stress, and there should be people in your company that are the stressors and are always thinking worst case scenario. Now there's certain people in your company. Let's say, for example, you know for this business, luis Luis can't sit there and constantly think worst case scenario because then he's not going to have that flow through of genius to do what he needs to do on the marketing side. So I think there's certain people in the company where their job, quite frankly, is to worry, stress and just always think worst case scenario but, at the same time, you're able to shine a light on like what is the upside for them?
Darren Lee:because that's like, that's the reality you created. Right, I know you're talking about reality, trans surfing. Before it's the first book you read, you're 14 not first book, but it was one of the first ones. How how do you, how do you, uh like, adapt that reality, though, into, like, the day-to-day?
Iman:well, I think, listen, I said everyone lives a different reality. I also understand that each person is different. So what I mean by that is everyone has a different uh, stress tolerance, you know. So I know, okay, this person I could burden with this stress of something that potentially might not even be a problem, but but me, bring that on to them isn't going to ruin their day, whereas some people, if I bring up something that probably won't become a problem If there's, if I bring up something that probably won't even become a problem, first of all, it probably isn't gonna become a problem and, second, that might throw off their entire workflow for the rest of the week. So I think it's just knowing.
Iman:I don't believe that there's one size fits all leadership style. I think that when it comes to leading a team and running a team, you just need to know who you're speaking to and you need to have a grace between different people. And you know, even for me, I have a certain way of communicating. But when there's people in my team, I know I have to maybe over-communicate or I have to communicate in a softer way, whereas there's certain people where it's just like we get along well or it doesn't take any extra thing, because they communicate in the exact same way I communicate.
Darren Lee:Just want to take one quick break to ask you one question have you been enjoying these episodes? Because, if you have, I'd really appreciate if you subscribe to the channel so that more people can see these episodes and be influenced to build an online business this year. Thank you, yeah, man, I fell into that issue as many times too is in you're trying to fix a specific problem to someone who's more on the emotional side, so it's that person needs to be communicated differently, like my wife, for instance. I could tell her to do something a hundred times over. She's not going to do it. But if I have to showcase why and connect maybe more emotionally, then she will, and I think that's just the levels of like EQ which I feel like you've developed at a very high level. How have you kind of focused on that?
Iman:I think, a lot of offline stuff.
Iman:I think, in general, a lot of people in our online industry have very low EQ because you don't spend a lot of time with people face to face and read these micro expressions.
Iman:And you know, I kind of even said alluded to earlier in there in my last presentation one of the most profitable things I did not to go from zero to like one in our industry, but once I was already at a pretty successful place one of the things I really did to take it to the next level is just hanging out with people in different industries and learning about different industries and you start to learn that no business is perfect, no business perfect. No talent is perfect, no business is perfect, no talent is perfect. Everything comes with drawbacks and whatnot. So, uh, I think the more time you can spend in the real world, that's why I like even like Ali and I talk about it a lot Him and I are very like old school kind of guys and we learned respect very early on in life and one of the reasons and that's like carried wealth for us in the space and I think that's unfortunately one of the things that space lacks a lot of is just like old school, respect principles.
Darren Lee:What was a driver for that? Because I completely agree with you, I feel like this our space can often be like the 10K month chop shop. It's almost. It's almost like rude right, it's like rude selling. It's a wrong type of selling style. And even being mentored by yourself and your team, I've seen like the elegance and the brand and the positioning, but what was the driving force for you to be like okay, I need to be much more respectful with the people I work with. Maybe people around you, maybe your mother, everything together.
Iman:Yeah, so for me, funnily enough, it was actually my stepdad growing up, so he was a very interesting character and I even have like a lot of people close to me a lot of times are like why were you? Why did you give him so much grace? And I'm like, listen, at the end of the day, he may have not been particularly nice to me and my mom, and you know, eventually it got to a point where he cut us off. But I don't, I'm just old school. Like I still lived under his roof. For me, if you, if I live under your roof, whatever you need to do like I was basically his personal butler, his like I was on call 24, 7, 3, 6, 5 days a year. So for me, that's, for example, how I learned old school respect.
Iman:Also, I guess, where I come from in the world, coming from Dagestan, these are things that are instilled in you, uh. But then there's other ways that you can learn that, like, for example, you know we have Alex here. Alex tells me all the time one of the things I really wish I had gone through in life, I've never, I've never had a job, you know, and I w I wish I had. Like I don't say that as in like oh, I'm better than having a job, like I really wish I had a nine to five, or especially something like physical, like, very like just physically exhausting you know, cause I don't have that context, for you know, sometimes we we forget that in our world, like we were having a rough day.
Iman:And then for me, I don't have that time to like go back to like well, fuck, when I was you know whether it's like washing plates for 12 hours. It's like, okay, no, nothing will ever compare to like that time. So like, let's, let me stop being fucking ungrateful little shit and let me like have some context around like really the reality I'm living.
Iman:So sometimes you know, I wish I had that Cause. I feel like that gives you a sense of respect and even learning. Like because of my stepdad, for example, I learned how to bite my tongue and that's been one of the like the best things. Even my team. A lot of times they're like why aren't you reacting to this? I'm like because I don't care about my emotions or being right in the moment, I just care long-term and I just care about strategy. A lot of times strategy is you bite your tongue and you speak when the time is right and you know you don't say anything until victory, until you've won the war in its entirety. Until then, you keep your opinions in private or you keep your moves in private or whatever it may be. So yeah, very long winded and kind of went away from the initial question, but I think it's just a larger conversation about respect and however you learn those that respect or those old school principles. You know I said for me it was kind of because of my stepdad and then even my mom, like small feisty russian woman, like still to this day, like you know, that's my mom, so it's like she is the only one that not to say she tells me what to do, but like if she shouts at me, I listen, like I just don't have a choice, and that's kind of where I come from in the world.
Iman:Um, so, whether it's that, whether it's our experience I wish I had, which is that having a nine to five growing up and really learning like a proper day's work, like I don't know, I know what a proper day's work is like mentally and being like mentally dreamed, like from a physical perspective I haven't had, uh. So I think any of those things teach you respect and if you know, especially in the space, maybe someone hasn't had a nine to five or maybe they didn't learn that from their parents go do something. You know, whether that's, for example, uh boxing, like something that like teaches you, quite frankly, how to just shut the fuck up, bite your tongue, how to be humbled. Be humbled, and I think I said I think a lot of people in this industry unfortunately uh have a bad attitude because they haven't been humbled yet and even one thing, a big observation I've had recently is people that are not coachable and people that have god complex and are a variation of it.
Darren Lee:I find that coming to this like mastermind and being here, you get humble pretty hard. You see people like Ryan, you see guys are just killing it and that puts you in your place, maybe from a, maybe from a not from such a negative perspective, like working in pizza hut which, by the way, I did at 19 years old. I was like cooking, I was making pizzas and stuff and I knew that's the hell, I'm not going back there, so you don't need to have heaven and hell. New. That's the hell, I'm not going back there, so you don't need to have heaven and hell. But if you're not coachable and you have that chip on your shoulder like I don't know about you, man, but you know those first couple years that really knocked the ship, the chip off my shoulder. So that's what I see sometimes, like when you make more money, I don't understand how you could become more arrogant. What's your thoughts on that?
Iman:well, you know you talk about, like, for example, a german, like ryan, like um you know you know, I don't know if you know this, but there's a guy in there that does 1.4 billion a year with ab.
Darren Lee:I think I'm sitting next to him.
Iman:Yeah, you're sitting next to him. Yeah, so, like you know, you talk you talk.
Iman:You talk about levels and whatnot yeah and once again, that also like ties into like the fact like after you know we just wrapped up this presentation, he comes to me, he man I think about all the headaches in my business and like he almost wants what we have. And it's like you do 1.4 billion with aB a year, right, you do 1.4 billion with a B a year between your conglomerate of businesses and he wants what we have. And then we look at him and we're like we want what you have. So that's why you also learn like the grass is never greener, like you know. It's just like there's no perfect business, like we all, just you know, and that's why, like I'm never jealous of other businesses, even though I'm involved in many different verticals, and I think that also has given me perspective is like you know, I have things I hate about my physical product businesses. I have things I hate about my software businesses, about the info business. So it's I have just a very good understanding and that also parlays into, you know, the feeling of not having a God complex. It's like you can sit here and have a God complex and then you speak to someone. Like that and it's like, and that's why I like speaking to people in different industries Because it gives you a very interesting perspective and I like speaking to people in different industries without getting like FOMO or feeling like, oh, the grass is greener there. I can speak to them and I want to hear about their wins and what, how their industry is. But then I also ask them about what are the headaches that come with your industry. So it gives me a balanced perspective. It's like you have these rewards but they come with these headaches. And also you had the and I also a lot of times ask what were your competitive advantages? That or did you have any competitive advantage 99% of the time? That competitive advantages that got you to this point of success with your business?
Iman:So yeah, I think it's just being around different industries and, as I said, in our pool, I think a lot of times it becomes this like cesspit of like oh, I'm 200 a month, I'm 20 a month. Like I said it in there, if someone makes $3 million a month in profit in an info business or someone makes 50 grand a month profit in an info business I'm joking I don't view them any differently Cause I'm like I know we have a client in AFL that does more than a hundred million a year. They did more than a hundred million last year in info. It's like I know their situation where that or they're at right now and I know sometimes for sure they would want to switch with the person. They're just doing 100k a month with one employee. So there is no like perfect thing. Uh, it's just give yourself context and then also remove the uh, because sometimes basically what the reason I'm saying is because sometimes they see people and they're like, oh, but he's doing they glorify the extra money when it's like, I don't think you glorify, just have context that that's possible and there's people doing that.
Iman:But also that doesn't mean that like you should do that, because for a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs, are not made to make millions a month. They don't have what it takes. They don't have what it takes. They don't have the stress tolerance they don like. For example, I have a really really high stress tolerance, really high, whereas if someone else was in my position they would fall apart.
Iman:And, by the way, that also, once again, just like how I said, in life everything is a comes with pros and cons and the thing with me, because everyone wants to be like stoic, for example, like they ever want to have a high emotional stress tolerance, but that also, in order to have high emotional stress tolerance, you have to make yourself numb to emotions. So I'm very numb to emotions, which means positive and negative. So, for example, imagine your biggest dream day that could be. That could make me feel nothing.
Iman:And, by the way, that's not because I take it for granted, like there's so many things in my life. I really don't take things for granted and I'm very. I still keep my feet on the ground with this stuff. That's the way I was raised, but I'm just saying I don't feel it Like, I'm just numb now. So so that's why you know, uh, that numbness and that, um, callousness. Basically I'm very callous, emotionally callous, because I've been forced to. Because if I was an emotional person, all of these things that come, emotional person, all of these things that come uh, and all these battles we have to fight and fuck, especially man like this, last year has been the best year ever, but fuck me, it's aged me. But if I had the emotional stress, like the stress, tolerance of someone else like you would the first battle you'd be out yeah, you'd be out, um, be straight out.
Iman:But the benefit for them is they feel the highs and the lows. So, like, my emotional bandwidth here is like this, and I said a lot of people what they want is because people who are very emotional, they don't want to feel the lows as much, and they're like, okay, so I'm just going to become stoic and not feel the lows. Yeah, but that also means you don't feel the highs. So there's a give and take with everything.
Darren Lee:It's kind of like a lot of these guys are operating from tens, so they're 10 out of 10 or they're one out of 10, but you want to operate from almost like a four to a seven, because consistently in that wavelength, consistently. But would you say that, with the kind of emotional regulation that you have, that you're still at peace with what you do, or do you feel like you're not? What does at peace with what you do mean?
Iman:Are you proud of? The reason I'm I guess I'm stuttering on this question is I don't ever sit with myself. I'm like, fuck, you did such an amazing job, blah, blah. This like I don't know. I'm just not one of those people who kind of ruminates on these things.
Iman:For me, I appreciate, I appreciate what we do and I don't take it for granted that, like you, look at where we are with the clients that we have, with the people that we have in that room, as I said, like 99% of people don't know that there's people in that room doing those sort of numbers. They're just very private about things or whatever. These are offline people. And then, yeah, like I just I don't take things for granted, I don't think, take things lightly, but I'm just not a person that, like, ruminates and sits and I'm like I'm so proud of myself. I let me put it this way If my life was a movie or turned into a movie, I would watch a movie and I think for me, I feel good about that. I feel like I've had just the right experiences of very low, lows and very high highs.
Darren Lee:Yeah, man, 100% agree. One thing I really am worried about you is, as you have grown, your brand equity and brand integrity has improved. So it's almost like the architect the narrative of the brand has actually improved. How intentional was that?
Iman:Well, I mean yes and no. Some people would say the brand equity was stronger two years ago, for example, one of the things when everyone absolutely loved us. Like I honestly don't think I had a fucking okay, of course there's some haters, but like I don't think I had any negative feelings towards me, even, let's say, like two years ago, I told the team every hero becomes a villain and then, once you're a villain for long enough, they want to see you become a hero again. So and and that's also why I'm not emotional about these things I understand that these things come and go and your viewpoint on a person, because you can look at people who have been known for some time. They're heroes and they become villains. They become heroes and like, and I'm just not emotional about these things.
Iman:I understand that it's the way that things go. So let me put it this way I my the way that I view brand because also, for example, we've made intentional moves to not be as viral anymore. So, for example, our viewership in the last two years has gone down. But I the only barometer that I work off of is revenue in the businesses. As long as revenue and whatever each business is different, revenue slash profit depends what business it is. As long as that's growing, or whatever the main kpi is for that business, as long as that's growing, and also as long as my exposure to the high, high, high, like echelons of people is growing, anything in between I don't really care about such a good point.
Darren Lee:Right, because, like, like saying, cash, the amount of views you get do not contribute towards revenue. But that shift has really only happened in the past 18 months, where before youtube was really pushing well, youtube entrepreneurs were pushing more views or they were seeing people like you and thinking I'm going to go follow that path. Uh, what was inflection point for you to say, oh okay, this is not contributing to revenue, especially with the business channel well, for me, nothing changed.
Iman:It's just, for example, like 18 months ago we had nothing high ticket to sell. So and and I've tried to say this many times that you know, like I've tried to say this many times, so people don't fall under that trap it's like don't look at our vlog channel, for example. Like our vlog channel, uh, funnels sales for our physical product, like the eyewear business is still a very small business. I wanted to do eight figures this year. I don't think we're gonna hit it and, honestly, but like so many, many, many millions a year and next year, definitely an eight-figure business, so that we have a massive competitive advantage and a massive head start because of all the eyeballs from the vlog channel. Vlog channel also funnels a lot of our other businesses. Main channel funnels the mid ticket that we open, monetize, which we open a couple times a year before. It used to be our low ticket digital launchpad, uh, but I know you don't watch my main channel and that's okay I said it to the guys earlier.
Darren Lee:I was like I have not watched that channel, dude, but the second you open the business one, the first video, I watched all 28 minutes, yeah of course and I know that because at the day you're at a different stage of your career and that's fine, you know it's funny as well.
Iman:Sometimes they're like people will like hate on someone, or like people will be like, oh, his stuff's so basic. It's like, yeah, but what if I'm just helping that cater, catering to that side of the market, like, okay, your stuff's so basic. It's like, oh, cool, your stuff's so advanced that no one can even fucking get. For me I don't look at like is it basic or advanced? Like what results does it get people? So before I was just catering to people earlier on in their stage, because that was all our product suite front facing help with. Now we obviously have uh 8fl. We also now have wop.
Iman:Now for me my main focus, wop, is our bigger enterprise b2b clients. We're not b2b, I guess technically all b2b. But like you know, I mean like I'm focused on that side of the market. That's actually you know. You can ask us like comparisons between us and other platforms. One I'm like listen, bro, for me there's space for all of us to coexist, just as long as we handle payments. Because I said, for me that's the most important, that's the most valuable how come that's so valuable to you?
Darren Lee:what's the, what's the mode or unique angle there do you want to take?
Iman:well, listen, it's the most important part of the business, like, if we make you money, more money, and it's that like. It's just like. To me it's so hilarious when I see stuff about people like you know they'll even talk about WAP fees and stuff like that. It's like, okay, you don't know what our fees are because, once again, we help a lot of our focus. Now, listen, we have people on WAP that are doing $200 a month. You know we have many people doing five grand Like. We have smaller creators, but which other platforms have as well.
Iman:Where we Excel, no one comes close to us is on the payment side of things terms and obviously, just like. If you go to any company, you know same thing. If you work with a private bank, they're going to give you custom quotes depending on, like, if I had an extra 500 million dollars that I could put into my uh, one of my private banks, of course they're going to give me very different terms than what I have right now. So you know people speaking on fees, you know when they don't like, they don't understand, of course, at this scale and at this size, if you're doing a million a month sorry, 10 million a month which we have people on WAP doing processing. Yeah, it's fucking insane, right. And I think also I'm so ridiculously passionate about payments. The reason why, as well, is because you know even that individual inside that does 1.4 billion a year.
Iman:He does in education, but it's offline education and one of the things, the things that he does. So he has a bunch of universities all around europe and also student lending, and I asked him the first time I met him. I said listen, if you didn't have student lending, what percentage of your business would you lose? He said more than 99, overnight, 100. And then if you inverse that, like invert it in our industry, if we have the same payment terms as the old school, traditional education systems, well then our business will 100X overnight and I see that in businesses that start using WAP on a payments infrastructure perspective. Now you have to focus your company resources and, by the way, I also want to say, like I am not the CEO of WAP At the end of the day, stephen Cam, the rest of the team over there, you know I've come, they've built something incredible and I've come in uh later and obviously, you know, invested a very, a pretty penny, uh, uh, to be able to have a seat at the table, but at the end of the day, they know what they're doing.
Iman:I'm just saying for me where I'm most interested. In the same way, if you speak to Apple, you know an individual Apple, one of the higher ups at Apple, you know maybe they might be far more interested in Apple's App Store ecosystem and that's really what gets them excited and they're like this is where we need to continue to go, whereas someone else you speak to might be far more interested in the hardware. So that's not to say that when I speak on these things, that's not to say that this is a official WAP statement. I'm just saying from my perspective, what are we the best at? And there's not. I won't entertain a conversation. It's payments. Nothing comes close and obviously we have exclusivity with you know, majority, if not all the top ones.
Darren Lee:So it's super interesting to hear you talk because you're always talking from perspective of unique mechanisms and modes, like everything is advantages. Everything is always an advantage, whether you're talking about your delivery, we're talking about your team or whatever. That is, what sort of what's your system thinking around that? Because you've mentioned the word mode and like advantage about 20 times since this morning so it's just, it's obviously something that's continuously. You're looking, as you're, at your edge.
Iman:Well, I just understand business is very difficult, life is very difficult. So even when I was talking about, for example, my investment thesis, I was saying how majority of my investments and majority of my portfolio is tied up in private equity and why, because that's a competitive advantage I have. Now I can't go to, you know, let's say, for example, I'm buying a piece of real estate Like I'm not going to go. Oh, but my name is Emang Adji and I have XYZ companies behind me. They're like I don't give a fuck, you're trying to buy a house. What is it Like? You say I'm going to give you a discount just because of XYZ property, even though I have well over eight figures in property all cash.
Iman:It's something that I invest in, but it's not for me. I invest in properties. You know, most of the stuff I don't make disclose properties where I just don't want to rent, right? So for me it's like legacy properties I know I want for the next 10, 20 years. So it makes sense to buy. It's properties for loved ones, investment property, properties for loved ones, stuff like that. So the reason I but and so I allocate cash there. But I don't view it as like okay, this is my investing money. It's just like, this is my park money. It's like watches yeah, exactly because I don't have a competitive advantage there. Uh, it's in the same way.
Iman:If a real estate agent comes to me, I mean, I mean, I guess slightly different. You know, sometimes you do have, sometimes you do have, um, sometimes you do have uh motivated uh sellers and stuff like that, and you know you can get a shop, good deals. But let's say, for example, when my private banks, when they come to me with a private equity deal, I'm like, listen, the fact that it's coming to me tells me it's not a good deal because I'm a fuck, I'm a tiny fish compared to who you guys work with. So the fact that it's coming to me already says it's not a good deal. So with my investments, I am super aggressive. You know I'm super aggressive and if I can't be aggressive I'm not going to take the deal. If I'm not getting ridiculous, ridiculous terms, I don't take the deal on, because also and I also don't ask for those terms if I can't help Like so for shoe company, a shoe company comes and they want me to invest, how much value can I really see bring to that business? Okay, maybe a little bit of an audience, maybe.
Iman:So why? First of all, why would I embarrass myself for asking for better terms? And then also, I have no advantage in that uh, so it just doesn't make sense, whereas you know I invest a lot of software companies or platforms or, you know, even like WAP as it currently stands, for me it's I mean, wap is this huge, uh, mammoth but the thing, the reason I invested, basically was payments. That's, when I think of WAP, just my personal relationship, it's payments. Um, that's where I bring the most, uh, value and that's where my focus goes, or at least as of right now.
Iman:So, anyways, all that to say, you have to look at where you have your edge, right, so, whether that's in your business or whether that's in your investments, and if you don't have an edge, like it's in the same way, like I don't have an edge in the stock market, so that's why I just invest in the S&P 500. I'm sure I could have an edge if I allocated time. I just don't have the time to fucking study every single company. So if I don't have that edge, I'm going to get swept by someone that does have an edge. So that's why, every single Tuesday, just our cost average in S&P 500. Is it the sexiest returns compared to what I get elsewhere? No, but I don't have an advantage. So why would I try to engage in a sport where everyone else has a gun and I have a knife?
Darren Lee:why do people shoot themselves in the foot then that way? Right, that's, that's the whole logic is that you see a guy who's killed in an info and then he gets into like a nail technician business right, it's like dude, that's just clearly not alignment, whereas one observation I made of you is the fact that everything is vertically integrated. I know guys are white label shit, but for the most part it's not as deliberate. Um, how have you thought about that? Because if you go, if you scale back two, three years, you were still picking software companies two, three years ago before, like it was the thing to do, right before, like sas and microsas and ai sas was a thing. Um, how have you seen that to be your big swings? Right, because it looks like, well, it is your cash feeding, your big bets, um, but you got to be careful because with a brand that you have, you can't be just investing into any sort of shit, even if it's, even if it's something small.
Iman:well, I guess one of the benefits as well is I don't make my money by, like, I don't monetize. Being a smart investor, if that makes sense. You mean, like it's a tertiary thing that people ask me for, but like, I'm not known as mr investor. Now, for me, known as Mr Investor, people should know what you invest in, so like, and that's like, for example, I told you that company earlier today, like I did an 11 X in seven months, uh, so, and I'm the largest shareholder in that company. We just closed our latest round of 40 million. Uh, I'm the largest shareholder, minus the two co -founders. That is, of course, uh, so, whatever, I've already made many, many multiple millions from that deal.
Iman:Now, I don't need, I don't owe anyone, I don't need to disclose the company, I don't. I mean, I'm happy to tell you off camera, um, because why I don't make my money from that? Now, here's the thing If I was, if this was an investing conference or whatever, if that's what I teach, then yeah, I think you have a moral and ethical responsibility to disclose what companies you invest in. Otherwise, it's just all guessing games at that point. So, yeah, the reason I bring up all this stuff is yes, I started investing in software and the reason why, for me, software can integrate into the company. So, for example, I example, I have no responsibility to tell people there's many things that people use inside of digital launchpad, inside of monetize, inside of this, inside of that company, even stuff that you guys use. You don't know that I own 5% Because, also, do I need to tell you that I'm not? I'm not, it's genuinely the best product. Now, in the same way, by the way, people come to me and they ask and I only roll out when it is the best product. So, for example, that company within three months, everyone inside of adafl will be using it, but right now it's not ready yet. Okay, so I roll it out when the time is appropriate and when the product's where it needs to be. Uh, so software is in a is a lane where we have an advantage. Uh, because we can bring users, we can onboard users, we can bring also a lot of product experience. So, with that business, for example, max is very you know, feel free to speak to him. Like Max and the guy who owns this company, they're very close in the sense of like, there's a lot of like, tight feedback. Oh, what should we do? Should we do this, should we do that, etc. So we do a lot of product testing. Even the product team will test these softwares and give feedback, uh, even if we don't roll it out immediately. So yeah, once again, that's where I have an advantage If I will say this, like if I, if info businesses had value, I genuinely believe I'd be a billionaire by now, because all I do is make money in info and invest in info businesses.
Iman:So, for example, if I taught e-commerce, all I would do is take the money from e-commerce and buy e-commerce businesses. If I taught real estate, I guess a little slower. I don't know. That is what we'll talk real estate people do. If I taught real estate, all I would do is take that and put that into more real estate. So for me, I'm in an unfortunate position where the thing that I'm the biggest expert in, which is this whole info space, this whole info space I can't take that money and invest into info. So then when I looked at it, I was like I can't invest in info businesses. So what's the closest cousin to it?
Darren Lee:And software was that for me Such a good point. Such a good point. And again, it's a unique angle you talk about we're in a business of transformation, not in the business of information. But if the value of information is going to zero because of AI and you can just chat, gpt anything, then what business will we be in?
Iman:Well, listen, I don't think information, the value of information goes to zero. I think that the value of cohesive information, because, once again, let's say, for example, when you go take a driving lesson, the driver or your instructor, they're reading off a book. Same thing, when you go to college, your college professor is reading off a book that you can literally buy online. So why are you going there? You're not going specifically just for the information, you're going for the experience and the transformation around that. Right, and I think that's why I tell people in the info space get you know, I literally told you off camera, you know you're talking about a lot of people struggle with asking bland questions. Okay, Well then can you build a tool, especially with the way that AI and software is these days? I guarantee you could pay someone five grand, ten grand, to build a tool that will help scrape and use the correct model to scrape every single piece of content that they can find on this person and ask questions. And, for example, you can even have on your tool, you could have a sliding scale that says do you want the questions to be more rigid, specific or do you want them to be more open-ended? And now, all of a sudden, when people come into your program, they're like what are their biggest limiting beliefs? You also want to build tools around limiting beliefs or things that people tell themselves okay, but this will be a roadblock. So people might come into your program and they go yeah, but I just don't know the right questions to ask. Don't worry about it, I built the right tool for it. So now you're building an systems inside of info and that's why we've been able to succeed over the years is because a lot of people on the outside, a lot of people on the outside, they don't even bother to check. They don't even bother to know what we do. They think we just sell a course. I can't remember the last time we just sold a course, you know.
Iman:So now these days, whether it's tools to build a transformation, or even back in the day, on our $1,500 product, you had six, six weeks of one-on-one coaching. I don't know a single soul, I don't know an info company that's ever pulled that off at that price point. $1,500, six one-on-one calls for six weeks. And, by the matter of mind, that's outside of the 15 group coaching calls we have for that program. The nine courses that you get inside of it, you know, taught by the best experts in the world. You know it's funny. I even had people say like, oh, you know you shut down your agency in 2022. I'm like, do you not check that? My programs? Okay. Well, first of all, yeah, you know how. You guys know that. I literally told you that number one and that's also, for example, why we shut down the high ticket, cause I was like I don't feel comfortable talking about agency stuff at a high level, but helping beginners get to, you know, start and scale their agencies.
Iman:It's. We all know, like those beginning stages it's really very little changes, but nonetheless I'm like okay, valid point. So you guys feel like I'm out of touch with outreach? Okay, do you want me to bring an outreach expert? Even better, let me bring in the owner of Lemlist, who's a multi hundred million dollar software, and he'll teach outreach and he taught all of our outreach to all of our students. So, like you know, I think when you get closer to how we actually run our products, you start to understand just what level we play at, which is why we've been able to do this for so long and we'll keep growing year on year. But it's even not now, it's even in the past.
Iman:I was always thinking transformation, transformation, not just information. Because, it is true, information is I don't want to say it's futile Organized information is incredibly powerful. Once again, why do you read a? Why, uh, the for dummies series? You know the, the books where it's whatever for dummies, like all they're doing is taking information out there and synthesizing it and putting a cohesive um a book. And you know those books, you know the for dummies series, that they've netted far more than probably all these other books combined.
Iman:So I don't think information isn't valuable. I just think, if you're just selling information and you're not thinking about what can you sell outside of that? And, by the way, that's one of the coolest things. Right now, for example, we're building a WAP and once again like I'm so you know blessed to work with fucking such geniuses Like right now, a lot of the WAP team is in San Fran because they're building out a very like very robust apps infrastructure. So inside of your WAP you can have a custom like, for example, let's say, you're selling fitness right, you're in a fitness industry Okay, a calorie tracker or like a macro, whatever you know I'm not very well versed in all that stuff.
Darren Lee:I just have Russian genetics. I don't do all the macro stuff Limiting belief.
Iman:So what you can do now inside of your wop, you can check the wop app store and you can literally go and someone who's already created these softwares. You pay a one-time fee for, let's say, five grand. Or let's say, you know you're charging it for xyz. You know, let's say, you charge people a hundred dollars a month. They take a 10 clip of that, but they've built the tool already for you.
Iman:So that's where, for example, um, we think a lot about the ecosystem experience with WAP, where you're like okay, it is true, information, just selling information on its own. Uh, now, it also depends on price point. For example, you know, inside of monetize, we help people at the lower price points. Now we tell people you can create a digital product. That's just info. You're not going to sell it for five grand, okay, but you can sell it for 30 dollars, 50 dollars, 100 dollars. That's a different side of the market. So you know, I know it's a bit of a word vomit, but there's a a lot, there's a lot of variables that you have to consider and factor in, and then that tells you how much how valuable info strictly on its own is well, that's where people need accountability, right.
Darren Lee:If? If it was just information needed and everyone would be shredded and everyone would be super rich. But most people are fat and most people are broke, right. So it's not in that. I think it's in the accountability and the mentorship, because something my head of client success Tom, who's an absolute legend, often says to me is people aren't buying just information, they're buying the experience of you, like they resemble, they want to have the characteristic traits of you. Now, they don't want to copy you, but I mean that's what they're emulating right To some degree, because largely it's all the same shit anyway. It's lead sales and delivery. So, knowing that, what is the unique angle you can put in, kind of like with your team, when you're doing the monthly reviews, you come in to put your stamp on things and that's what's like. Ah yes, that's the culture, that's what brings the attitude.
Darren Lee:So I think even I was speaking to Tristan. Tristan said that he ran a monetized call yesterday and one guy wanted to have a faceless AI personal brand. But that is literally like that doesn't make sense. It's a personal brand that's faceless, whereas the unique mechanism of personal brand is the fact that it's you, so it's almost like people are trying to use ai in the wrong way. That will actually commoditize themselves in the process, whereas doing these events. Man, nothing is better than this. We're literally in english countryside, yeah it's a listen.
Iman:It depends. It just depends what game you're playing, and that's why one of the first things you know, people ask me what should my next steps in business? I'll just go what's your goal like? If you're trying to get to a million a month, we have to have a different mechanism to 10 million a month. That make a different mechanism to 100 grand a month or 500 grand a month or 10 grand a month.
Iman:Like, let's say, for example, you know that individual that would have asked about, like, how to have a faceless channel. Basically, I, I only it was only once I started investigating this topic that I realized how many channels on youtube I watch and I'm like I've never seen their face because I watched like a lot. Uh, it's basically like my news source. What I mean by like, if I want to find out what's happening in the markets or you know why, uh, china's real estate market is collapsing Like I watch a lot of videos and I only realized later. I'm like this is an AI voice and this is like, so this is an AI voice and then this is also like, like faceless.
Iman:Now someone like that could take that and then sell a $20, $50, $100 digital products. Are they going to become a millionaire? Absolutely no chance. Okay, no chance. But for some people they just want to make an extra 1200 a month, like. Those are where that model works. Um, and it's in the same way like if someone was like I want to make 10k a month in info showing my face, I would go okay. If you want to do it showing your face, do coaching, because that's the easiest way to get there. So it just depends like things can change. These levers change and and um, the the right way to go about the model changes depending on where you're trying to take it.
Darren Lee:Something I think about a lot is what does success look like? What does winning? What's a win for you? Not even success. What does a win look for you? A win for many people that are here could just be coming just spending the weekend here. It's not even about getting that one thing that's going to scale your business. Same with joining programs Guys that are young, that have just been on the wrong path, or even on the regular path. Just joining is like whoa. There's something on the inside here and that's one thing I've gotten, even from your team is like whoa. All the guys are super dialed in, but it's again.
Darren Lee:What does a win look like? Because it's not always about dollars and cents. It starts a transformation for people. But I would say I want to ask you about let's look at your positioning. So, speaking to Tristan, he said something that you guys kind of went through was people identified you as SMA bro, and then you're the YouTuber and then at one stage you're a TikToker. How do you adjust your positioning to be what you want it to be? How do you control the narrative?
Iman:Well, yeah, once again, this is where it just depends where you want. So you know, I have a dear friend of mine who's an advisor, uh, to me I think I'm actually he should yeah, he should should be coming in a few days. Uh, you know, and he's advising me on a lot of the M and and you know, he tries to tell me all the time like, listen, bro, we have to start a fund. And I said, even though, like my track record, it's under 10 companies, but like what I've done with my investments in companies I've even. He's like, bro, I've never seen anything like it. And I'm like, yeah, but no shit, sherlock, it's because I'm investing in companies I have a competitive advantage in, and also like the amount of the amount that I negotiate in terms of discounted equity on the front end, and also the way that I structure the deals, which, obviously, off camera, I'm happy to talk about. I'm like, yeah, no shit, sherlock. But the reason I bring that up is I told him, bro, I'm not known for that. I start a fund all of a sudden. I'm not known for that. So it just wouldn't make sense.
Iman:So for me, there's the what you're known for, like I've always, you know, up until recently I've always done myself down online and that was a specific. That was very specific and very conscious. I'm like, well, I don't need you guys to know how smart I am or how big the business are, because I'm I'm not helping you guys get to this, I'm helping you guys with this stage of your career. So if I'm helping you with this stage of your career, what does me talking about all this other stuff? It's in the same way. If you know you're working with a running coach and the running coach is like, if the running coach's content if you want to hit a like a sub four-hour marathon, and all this content is like him aiming going for a two-hour, you're like, well, you're so far, like, what are you going to teach? Like it would be off-putting. Whereas if all of his content is like I am, uh, how to do your first sub four hour marathon, everything around sub four? Now, in his private life he might be fucking running a two hour 30, but what does? Does he need to bring his that part of his life into where he is right now? He's not helping people with that stage.
Iman:So for me, I always just dumbed our stuff down. Listen, if I, if investing was my main occupation, of course, you know, in future all I would talk about is investing and all I would talk about is all the companies I'm invested in. And you know when I can talk about the case studies of what it's done, but that's just not where I'm at right now. So, yeah, quite frankly, there's what you do in your private life and then there's what your solution solves for people, and they don't need to be the same thing.
Iman:Everyone thinks that you need to, like, constantly talk about where you are right now. It's like I mean, yeah, if you want to, but for me, I just look at brand as like who am I trying to attract? And especially my stuff? I'm very cognizant, like I have. I follow a bell curve. I tell the team this all the time as well.
Iman:If you're first starting out, you think I'm a genius. If, if you're moderately successful, you hate me. No, no, no, but I'm very conscious of this. And if you're ultra successful, you think I'm a genius I appeal to. I don't appeal to that middle market, because the middle market, they need things to sound more complicated than they are. One of the things. I'm never going to overcomplicate things, because I've seen the people that use the biggest words and the biggest. I know what they actually do behind the scenes and what they own and what their numbers are, and it's never what people think it is right like you. Once again, go speak to the individuals that you actually know are doing a billion dollars downstairs. See how many fucking crazy big word terms they use. They don't talk like that. That's not how people at that level talk. You know people at a certain level talk very, just, very bluntly and trying to use as little words as humanly possible super dressed down, just chilling next, literally just sitting next to me just literally sitting right
Iman:next to me. So, um, yeah, all that to say that I understand, that I appeal to people in the earlier stages of their career, which obviously is, you know, a big part of our business helping people launch, you know, launch pad their career. And I appeal to people at the highest levels because they understand they don't look at what a person says, they look at what a person does and they look at the moves that are being made and they have the uh cognitive ability to look at that and go maybe he's not revealing everything, whereas the people in the middle, they don't understand. Just because you don't talk about something or just because you don't need to reveal something, doesn't mean that you know things aren't happening or you know, uh, moves aren't being made. So it just depends what. Now there's some people who only want to appeal to the middle. Like you know, there's many individuals that appeal really much to that middle market the beginner, you know, the people in the earlier stage of their career.
Darren Lee:They don't really drive with them, by the way, the really high level people, they also don't drive with them because they see behind the, the whatever the reality is, you're going to piss people off no matter what you do, so you may as well know who you're targeting, and just not piss off people that are going to pay you the most money. It's going to happen to you, right? You're gonna? You're gonna have those people, and was there any point for you that you felt like, if you got negative feedback, that it was too much?
Iman:No, not really, Because you know, for example, like last year, we had a bunch of hit pieces go out in the SNAT. I always tell the team, like, for me, my barometer is are the businesses affected? No, the last year, actually the last year has probably been the biggest growth we've ever had. Well, specifically this year, number one and number two is the. I don't care about the middle market, is the high level people? Are they still like, where are my business partnerships at? Where are my business opportunities? Where's my deal flow at? At the highest echelons. And that has been, I mean, the last year specifically, it's been insane. You know where we've taken things. So, uh, yeah, I, you know, I'm just very. I said I'm very unemotional, even with the team. You know where we've taken things. So, uh, yeah, I, you know, I'm just very.
Iman:I said I'm very unemotional, even with the team. You know, with the team I, I've told them these things way ahead of time. I said, listen, a hero will become a villain. Once you're a villain long enough, you'll become a hero again. Once you're a hero for enough time, then you'll become a. It's just all cyclical and you can't be emotional about it, just the way the game goes. Uh.
Iman:And then also, even when it comes to viewership, like I told the team, you know when we would, three years ago, when I would come up with a title concept, the title I write down bullet points for like three minutes, I just speak to the camera for 20 minutes, it would cut down to 12 minute. Videos at 12 minute, just rant about anything, and every video would get a million views in the first two weeks, like guaranteed. I was like guys, this will not last, this will not last. Number one and number two also this format will become obsolete. So you know, when people try to do the email gadget editing style, once that becomes a thing, once something is named email gadget editing style, it's already not effective anymore, right? So that's why, like, for us, we've all, it's always been important that we can do any format. Now there's formats we're stronger at, there's formats we're weaker at. But yeah, whether that's vlogs, whether that's vlogs, whether that's really boring business videos, whether that's you know more high production stuff, whether that's events like, we're just very multifaceted.
Darren Lee:It's interesting, right, because you've gone through the arc. You've gone through the arc of growing, feeling that pressure and strain, but not being subject to the algorithm. Right, and I think with the new wave of YouTube, it being less focused on just views, likes and engagement, you're well positioned right, because I think a lot of guys will use those excuses to leave the market, to move on to the next thing or say it wasn't working or whatnot. But it's people around you too. One thing I wanted to really dig into was what your team structure. So there's kind of two schools of thoughts with teams. Some people say that if you have a team, that team should be so focused on you that they shouldn't have a brand. But your C-suite team all kind of have their own brand to some degree, even like Alex, like everyone recognizes, like Alex from like the random videos. What's your thoughts on that?
Iman:Listen, I'll be entirely honest. Who was I speaking to? I was speaking to someone about this the other day. Maybe they might have small brands or whatever.
Iman:Like Alex is a different story because also Alex, like for me personally, I don't have anyone in the company that's trying to grow their personal brands. Because also, the thing is like, listen, not to say that I don't enjoy the content we make and I also know it's super valuable and that's also one of the reasons I keep making it. The first three years I had on YouTube, I made no money from. I generated no business from. I did my years of creating content just to give back. If there was no business benefit from our content, I would not make content anymore and that's just the truth. I've been doing it for 10 years at this point. So my team knows I hate social media, I hate social media, I hate content, I hate, I hate all listen. I just like, I just like to focus on business, right, so they understand that. So they also don't glorify building a personal brand. And if you want to build your personal brand, usually that's because you want to go expand out and, by the way, that's super cool and, like you have my entire blessing to do that. It's just, you know, we've had all these years of year on year growth and also the opportunities and the ventures we have now.
Iman:My team knows if, like, if you want to stay in this ship, like we're, we're sailing. We've already sailed to victory, but we're sailing to like something that's generational. If you want to stay on this boat with us, like, of course we all act in a certain way, like, if you want to, like be one foot in, one foot out, like we're not really cool with that. If you want to be one foot out, like, that's great. Like, just go do your thing and you have our blessing. And all the time, like, constantly, I'm even introducing, like people they used to work at our company and then went and did their own thing, I'm introducing business them this, that like, if you want to go, do that, go, do that now. Even still, like every single person that either whatever we've had to let go or have let go on their own accord, every single person always tries to come back to company every, without a doubt that I can't find this culture anywhere else.
Iman:But going back to, uh, the main point of discussion, yeah, I guess technically, like, alex has a personal brand but he's not like I know alex, he's not like, he's not trying to grow, he's just showcasing work. He's just kind of a bro about it. Yeah, you know he's, he's showcasing his work and of course that's going to get um, of course that's going to get, uh, followers and likes and this, that. But, like I know I'm with Alex 90% of the time, 99%, 95% of the time he doesn't. He's not a social media guy, doesn't care. In fact, most of the time he like wants to throw his phone away. So yeah, I just in general, I'm not the biggest fan of like. Let me put this way I view social media and building a personal brand for the sake of business. But if you are within a business, then you have there's no reason for you to be building your personal brand. If you want to do that, you have our blessing and we will do anything to help you with your future ventures.
Darren Lee:It's just like it's not really aligned with what we're trying to do here yeah, same with the culture, I think, because a lot of guys might come in as, like, entrepreneurs, but they're just early in their journey and the culture that you create. It's very similar to culture that we created. Man, honestly, a lot of guys tried like sma, they tried a few other things, they tried editing on their own they're freelancancers and they came in and I said, okay, we'll pay you but we'll also teach you shit. And I think they stay for that. We fly everyone, similar to you, do customer events or company events. When we do our masterminds, we try to bring everyone to Bali and I feel like that's like a nice event for people to come through. They stay together and it's a good vibe. It's a much stronger vibe. But again, right, right, it's chess versus checkers.
Iman:most guys aren't playing those games yeah, listen, you have to pour into your team and the other thing is you have to know what people's dreams and aspirations are and then also kind of work within that. Like, for example, you know, alex in a few months is launching his book. You know, so he's we're, he's doing a coffee table book of all of his work of art and you know, also now a fucking author, because he's also wrote like many, many pages and took journal excerpts and stuff that he literally wrote in his diary from three years ago or two years ago, while we're going through the craziness that is our life, and you know poems and this and that. And you know, I really wanted, you know, strongly suggested him to do that as well, because I'm like, listen, give people an insight into this life. Now, if I sat here and I was like listen, this is not okay, blah, blah, this. That like I know that this is just sometimes you have to almost let people have their side quests, as long as you understand that they're committed to the mission. Alex and I've been together so long and we know that it's a like literally fucking life thing, so it's fine to do that now.
Iman:If it was someone who just came into the company. I'll go I'm gonna say you're basically just trying to build a business on the side, which is fine, like once again, it's fine. It's just we're trying to get people to all focus because every single person in the company every single year gets a raise, right? So like I it, like in our company, you grow and everyone knows being in our company is the biggest insurance policy on earth, right? Because, like maybe I also tell people all the time like, let's say, hypothetically, a dollar I talked about earlier, let's say, for example, you make a dollar a month at our company.
Iman:I know you could go to another company and make $1.50 at their company but in 12 months of that company will be bust or the person would have given up, or this person would have like fucked something up and in a year you would have been like $1.50 at our company anyways, regardless, except that then grows year on year, on year. So people at our company know it's an insurance policy. But going back to the whole EQ thing, that's where you need to know your team, their wants, their dreams, their desires. And there's been listen, there's been people in the company where I've told them I'm like, listen, you're just not cut out. To work in a team, you need to be an entrepreneur.
Darren Lee:And that's good leadership from you, because you're able to spot that to think like, okay, I'm going to lead this team and identify that you're not the best fit for this reason, because maybe you're a better fit to go somewhere else. What do you think about how the team contribute to like delivery? So a lot of your team do all the delivery. They nail the delivery for all your products. How do you ensure that you get amazing results for people when people expect to work with you?
Iman:Because they are working with me. What they do is they're synthesizing everything that I know, so you get the best parts of what I know. And then also my team knows. So, for example, you know I told you we have we've probably had 15,000 students that have had one-on-one coaching at that last uh, the agency program, now the, these top coaches are now the product developers for our company. So, for example, when we're developing a new version of like, let's say, you know that final version we made of the agency program, my product team has literally spoken to 15,000 customers, taken 15,000 individual people, has coached them for six weeks. So they're like oh, we think the sticking in my mind. I think the sticking point is this. They're like well, no, I can tell you from experience in field experience. The sticking point is this so we get to put the best of our minds together. So there's everything I know. And then there's also what they experience and feedback. They get boots on the ground, speaking to these people every day. So it's just a joint collective.
Iman:Now, many times, listen, there's never a piece of content that goes out that I don't approve as in like. I will look at it and I'll be like okay, this one thing I don don't approve as in, like I will look at it and I'll be like, okay, this one thing I would. I don't believe that. That's not an actual worldview that I have. And, of course, working alongside these people for so long uh, you know, and having the the privilege of doing so, which they just they can speak like me, they can talk like they just know me so well at this point. Second brain yeah, yeah, it's second brain. And also you gotta remember, like when you're all of the books you're reading, or maybe 30, 40, 50 years ago, it's a brain. And also you got to remember, like when you're all of the books you're reading, maybe 30, 40, 50 years ago, it's a different story, but pretty much every book you read in the last 10 years, 99% of it was written by a ghostwriter.
Darren Lee:No, but it's just the truth, so true.
Iman:It's literally the truth and people need to understand this. 99%, like all your top favorite books, books. It was 99% written by a ghostwriter and that 1% they came in and, by the way, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't say that in any judgmental way. It's like, of course, if the other person thinks so clearly, like you, they can do 90% of the writing, and then you come in and you go okay, actually I don't believe this, or this isn't the way we do things, or actually my perspective about this is different and it's like great, why not, it's beautiful man, because I think that's the part of like a really deep culture.
Darren Lee:I joke that my wife could answer half the questions I get asked in my program and she thinks she can't do. Like I'm actually being serious. She's like I think I know that answer better even than you. You said it this way three weeks ago which is what, like you know, combining it, combining your thought process with your actions are. So we're in the uk and obviously the uk gets a lot of shit and you spend a lot of time in Dubai. What's your thoughts, kind of being back here now? Like, do you, do you kind of wish to live in UK again at some point?
Iman:Well, initially the plan was to come back and I was going to claim non-DOM status, so I would have been applicable for non-DOM status, which would have given me many, many, many years of not paying tax here. How does that work? So, with non-dom program, I think it's like seven years, 17 years or something like that. I forget the exact numbers, but basically, uh, if you can claim non-dom status, any income you make outside of the uk is not taxable, so I would have been able to live here. It's, you know, similar like italy have a similar scheme, except theirs is not by. Like there you buy in, basically like italy. It's 100k. It used to be 100k, now it's 200k a year. Once again, I'm sure some things about some minute details about this have changed. So, you know don't quote me, this is my main occupation, but, um, you know, there, for example, you pay a 200k flat tax and if you make 100 million dollars, you make a million dollars, you pay the same. It's just a retainer right. So I would have been able to move back to uk and that was originally the plan after spending enough time abroad. Now they've abolished that, so I don't get that benefit anymore.
Iman:Um, for me personally, I would say I think the best place you make your money in the U? S, and what I mean by that is, like we make our money in the U? S. Now our customer, like at the Iowa brand, for example, our customers are U S based majority, that's majority of where our money is. In the info business, uh, in the software companies, majority of our customers are us based. So I'm making money in the us while not being in the us, or I have no interest of ever living in the us.
Iman:Quite frankly, um, it's just not really my place. I mean new york, I like new york. I actually I like because I like that energy of go get it. Um, there's nothing against america, it's just I don't know. What's interesting is I find that a lot of Americans have a fascination with Europe. Like a lot of Americans want to be in Europe. I don't see any Europeans that want to be in America. I don't find that translate in the same way. Multiple properties here. So I have holdings in the uk, like I have um presence in the uk. Obviously, you know I'm very careful with how much presence I have here. You know, to make sure that there is no there's no way there can be any misunderstanding that I most certainly do not live here. Uh, so for me, I get to enjoy it. Listen, I'm here 75 days a year. I have, as I said, I have cars that are not my name.
Darren Lee:They're not my cars, but I have cars that I might have access to.
Iman:Uh, I have properties that I might have access to, so I get to enjoy all the fruits, all the benefits that London has to offer for 75 days a year. For me, that's enough, uh, and the reason I'm going back to my point. In my opinion, the best way is to make your money in the us. You protect your money in the middle east, as in being tax efficient. Now, bear in mind, of course, if you have to have physical office in the us, in the us you do it. You know. I said most of the businesses I'm invested in, not pretty much every business I'm invested in is us based and that's also where our offices are. So I just don't have like, there's no saying that. But for me personally, the way that I'm set up, I can literally live anywhere. It's fine, so it's nice to benefit from the US economy while also paying no tax in the UAE. And then, in terms of so you make your money from the us, you protect it in the middle east, or singapore, uh, switzerland, not so much anymore, uh, and then you spend your money in europe.
Iman:Europe is the best place on earth to spend your money, hands down, there's nowhere else on earth. I'd rather spend money. In what way? Spend money to enjoy life. I think if you have money, uh and listen, I'm not saying hundreds of millions of dollars, I'm just saying, you know, even if you're in a very comfortable position, life, europe truly is such an incredible place to spend your money. You know, even even small things, like if I compare sometimes, for example, like cars, like the cars I have in dubai compared to the cars I have here, even though the price on the ones in dubai are substantially higher, I get far more enjoyment in the uk ones and in fact I specifically don't go for the most expensive cars here. It's just like, like I have like a porsche targa that's my favorite car on earth. That experience of like being in europe and like having the top, like it, just, it's just incredible. You're even driving through europe, man, yeah.
Darren Lee:Yeah, and it's just so aesthetic and so beautiful. I know Dubai have kind of replicated it to some degree, but it is completely unique. Okay, my last question for you is so you can buy anything, basically anything. What's like one thing that you enjoy the most? That money doesn't?
Iman:even play a factor in Time spent with my team, time spent with loved ones, like, listen other, listen other than that's really what it comes down to now. I think the reason I work so hard is because I work alongside people I really enjoy with. Like I don't know what it's like to work with people I don't enjoy working with. I don't think I'll work as hard if I did. Uh, and then in terms of other stuff, like for me it you know you should just use your money to spend your money on things that you find beneficial, like and that's also why I have so many wealthy friends. I don't judge them like as in for me. Like I don't care about wine. I have friends of mine that have multi. I mean, I have one friend that has tens of millions of dollars in wine. I don't get it. Do I need to get it? Does he need to explain himself to me? Does he need to like? If it's important to you, it's important to you, and as long as you're financially responsible, who?
Iman:Why does my opinion matter? You know, in the same way, like, whether that be watches or cars, or like like art, like I'm not educated enough to understand art for, whereas for some people they have tens of millions of dollars in art and that's like, that's cool. I'm not nearly enough educated to understand art or get it, but like, am I going to judge someone because they spend their money on that? So for me, there's certain things that bring value to like.
Iman:Honestly, every single night I go to bed and I have fresh sheets every night. I'm very blessed to have a maid that lives in my house, so all my places I have fresh sheets every night. Uh, chef, that makes me feel very, very successful and that makes me feel very, very successful and that makes me feel far more successful than any supercar or watch or this or that. And then buying for me legacy assets and what I mean by that is I don't really care about all the cars and this and that and whatnot. You know, when you're like, I like having the capital to deploy on If there's a big move to be made. I like knowing that I can action those moves when the time arises.
Darren Lee:If you had to be remembered for one word, what would that be? What do you want your legacy to remember?
Iman:By people that don't know me or people that know me, because those are two different things.
Darren Lee:Explain.
Iman:Listen, people know me. Like. Whatever people think they know of me is none of my concern, you like. That's why, like I'm, I don't get emotional when people like I think xyz, it's like bro, in a nice way, nice way possible. Would you be offended if I thought xyz of you? I don't know you. I've never spoken like. You have your assumptions about a person and you have what you actually know about a person when you spend time with them.
Iman:So what people think of me in terms of legacy from my out, I could not give From close proximity. I think for me it's just you have to make the people around you feel loved. Like for me. I want people, I want the people around me to know that genuinely, truly, I care about them so deeply and I love them so deeply. And I want them as long as they know the way that I show it. And what I mean by that is everyone has a different way that they show love and I don't believe that a person could be loving in all 10 different ways, like the thing that makes you loving. Like I show my love through acts of service, like I really just genuinely, I don't care who it is, especially you know, even my team, like I, just I do things to show people I care.
Darren Lee:Man, I want to say a big thank you. You're a legend.
Iman:I appreciate you having me on Huge influence on me, man for the past five, seven years in total.
Darren Lee:Big thank you, man.
Iman:You're a legend, Thank you bro.
Darren Lee:Thank you man.