#305 Elizabeth Walker - How to Master Your Mindset like a 7-Figure Entrepreneur

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Guest
Elizabeth Walker - https://www.instagram.com/elizabethannewalker_eawtc/

(00:00) Why Entrepreneurs Need NLP
(02:57) Aligning Life, Work & Mindset  
(06:05) Finding the Root Cause of Entrepreneurial Struggles  
(09:24) How to Reprogramme Your Mindset  
(11:10) Money as Units of Choice (and How to Get More of It)  
(16:08) Breaking the Million-Dollar Plateau  
(20:26) Losing Friends on the Path to Growth  
(22:30) Learning to Say No Without Guilt  
(24:26) Boundaries vs Alignment: Build the Right Relationships  
(27:09) The Truth About NLP 
(33:24) Breaking Lifetime Patterns  
(37:28) The Emotional Change Technique Explained  
(45:12) The Science Behind NLP & PTSD Work  
(52:21) Why Solution-Focus Beats Problem-Focus  
(54:47) The Truth About Antidepressants & Healing Depression  
(59:17) Identity Shifts & Burning the Boats (Safely)  
(01:05:44) Spiral Dynamics, Values Levels & Human Design Boxes  
(01:08:15) How Coaches Can Motivate Clients 
(01:10:13) Lessons from Abuse and Healing  
(01:13:34) The Beginner’s Mind: Why Billionaires Stay Curious  
(01:17:20) The Usain Bolt Approach to Success  
(01:21:31) Creating Business Parallels
(01:26:04) Communication as the Ultimate Lever in Business  
(01:31:24) The Privilege and Responsibility of Speaking to Millions  
(01:35:31) The Power of Going All In  

Chapters

• 0:00 Why Entrepreneurs Need NLP
• 15:01 Integration vs Compartmentalization in Business
• 32:34 Overcoming Limiting Beliefs and Root Causes
• 49:01 Understanding Depression and Tactical Stress
• 1:07:32 The Energetics of Entrepreneurial Success
• 1:21:34 Identity Shifts for Business Growth
• 1:34:18 The Power of Speech and Communication

Transcript

Darren Lee: 0:00

Why should every entrepreneur use NLP in their business and in their mind?

Elizabeth: 0:04

Entrepreneurs generally have a favorite flavor of pain. It'll either be I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I'm not loved, I'm not good enough, or worthy enough to be loved. It'll be something like that, and that all gets instilled over and over and over again every time they enter into the land of comparison and then they talk to themselves in their mind so here's the thing the physical, the mental and the spiritual are one system. They should never be split into three, because otherwise you're just creating parts. So you're in one entrepreneurial business and you've got to do content and you've also got to do admin, and people split them. Why would you not film content of you doing the admin?

Darren Lee: 0:43

Why should every entrepreneur use NLP in their business and in their mind?

Elizabeth: 0:47

Yeah, great question. So NLP is neuro-linguistic programming, meaning the brain, neuro, right, linguistic, the words you use. When most people think about the words they use, they actually think about what they speak out loud, but the loudest voice that influences us is the words that we use inside our mind Right, and so that's the linguistic part, and then the programming is just the programs that we have actually had in built into us or that we've accepted as we've become older. Entrepreneurs generally have a favorite flavor of pain.

Elizabeth: 1:20

It'll either be I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I'm not loved, I'm not good enough or worthy enough to be loved. It'll be be I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I'm not loved, I'm not good enough or worthy enough to be loved. It'll be something like that. And that all gets instilled over and over and over again every time they enter into the land of comparison. And then they talk to themselves in their mind. So the rhetoric in their mind becomes I'm not as good as that person, I'm not as loved as that person, I'm not as loved as that person, I'm not as popular as that person, and what they do is they go into comparison mode when really what they have to do is go into competition mode.

Darren Lee: 1:54

Is there any? Is there ever a point whereby that comparison is good in the beginning? Absolutely.

Elizabeth: 2:00

Absolutely that comparison has to exist to know where you fit in the world, right. But with comparison, what happens is you're just looking around and then there's no action With competition, if you think about preparing yourself for a competition, you need the mindset, you need the skill set, you need the physical development, you need the nutrition. You need all of those things and what NLP is is the actual initial state. You need to compete. The problem is is there's all these entrepreneurs competing in their head, but actually they only have to compete with themselves. And the simplest way to overcome that competition and win it is to utilize integrated neuro linguistic programming.

Darren Lee: 2:39

Where do you see the limitations of when, like, entrepreneurs are pushing through Because, like, if they're, if they're at that point whereby they're doing new things and they're learning the feedback that was positive. Is it? Is it? Would you consider it to be a mental block that prevents them from getting to, like, the next level, or is it physical?

Elizabeth: 2:57

so here's the thing the physical, the mental and the spiritual are one system. They should never be split into three, because otherwise you're just creating parts. Right, and when you create, so if you create parts in yourself. So ancient Hawaiian Huna, for example, which is a spiritual philosophy, used to talk about parts. So what they would say is that if something bad happened to someone, they would wrap it up in a little black bag and put it somewhere in their body to deal with later. That's what the warriors used to do, right? So in other words, they'd create a part.

Elizabeth: 3:29

And what's happened with humans is we've learned how to create these parts. So they have one part for work, one part for their new entrepreneurial business, one part for their family, one part for their mom and dad, one part for their kids, and they have all these parts. And it's kind of like building a house with a whole lot of rooms where all the doors are shut and they have to learn how to open all the doors, because it's easier to walk through a house when all the doors are open and you're moving freely than if you have to open the door. Shut the door. So if you have to open the door, walk into the relationship room, deal with your partner while you're in that room and your kids are in a different room, then you'll be making excuses as to why you can't be with your kids and your partner and have quality time with both at the same time.

Elizabeth: 4:10

Equally, if you put your work because when you start out you probably have a job right so you put your work in one room and you put your entrepreneurial business in a different room, then you're at work thinking about work, and you don't think about your entrepreneurial business until you're at home. Because you've compartmentalized, you've basically created parts. Yet the best way a human functions is as a whole integrated unit, and so by leaving the doors open in the house, you can move easily and effortlessly, so you can still give a hundred percent to your work while your brain is actually thinking about how you could utilize the principle you're doing at work to do something creative or amazing in your entrepreneurial business. So that's the integration.

Darren Lee: 4:49

So what's the biggest advantage of that, versus people saying you need to have, like, balance and separation into two? I know we're talking about it in a work context, but for me, I completely agree with you. Like, my integration is my wife, my dogs, my team members and my friends. My fitness is part of my business. They don't have a direct ROI, but they have an indirect. Even my podcast has an indirect ROI to my business, but now they're disconnected. So I see like that connective tissue. However, traditional knowledge or traditional advice is keep them separate Before we move any further. I have one short question to ask you have you been enjoying these episodes so far? Is keep them separate Before we move any further. I have one short question to ask you have you been enjoying these episodes so far? Because, if you have, I would truly appreciate it if you subscribe to the channel to help more business owners grow their online business today.

Elizabeth: 5:33

Absolutely. It is keep it separate, which what it does is. It changes the way that you utilize language in your own mind. Right, so say you're going to let's even do it within an entrepreneurial business, right, so you're in one entrepreneurial business and you've got to do content and you've also got to do admin. Right, and people split them. Why would you not film content of you doing the admin?

Darren Lee: 5:58

it makes sense how have you seen that play out when you're working with people?

Elizabeth: 6:05

because you've worked with people that are non-entrepreneurs so we work with people who are early entrepreneurs or non-entrepreneurs and wanting to be an entrepreneur.

Darren Lee: 6:13

But they're usually the hardest people to work with, because it's not that they have one problem, they have several different problems they need to solve. But how do you bring that all the way back to like the top six inches of their brain?

Elizabeth: 6:24

yeah, so we have to go right down to the root cause. So we go really, really deep in the work that we do.

Darren Lee: 6:29

And when we were speaking at the weekend, a big emphasis was like belief.

Elizabeth: 6:32

Absolutely yeah. So someone has to have a concept of belief, and if we look around the world, everything is either growing or dying, right? So if you look at a chair sitting in your kitchen, over time it's decomposing over a really long period of time, but you're looking at something that's largely dying. If you look at a tree in the forest, you're looking at something that's largely growing. So this duality exists in nature, and so all we have to do is to be able to move easily and effortlessly through the both. So you have to have the recognition that growth is available. Then you have to recognize that if you're not growing, you're actually dying. And if you're dying, that could look like multiple things, it could be your dreams dying, it could actually be physically dying. So you have to look at that metaphorically and go okay, I accept that growth is inevitable, because if I'm not growing, I'm dying, and I don't really want to die.

Darren Lee: 7:27

So I think it was Chris Williamson that mentioned that, like most men, like die a slow death after 25, they're starting that decline overall and part of it is your body decomposing, like you literally start getting hair cells on your ears, your hair might start falling out. But a big thing is the belief and I do believe that because I came from that corporate background part of that is like you're getting weathered down. It's almost like, as you say, like the rain coming in. It's raining today. It's like wearing down the roof and that like bears down until you actually break away from it and you're on this new path whereby it's continuously learning, adapting or decaying. And that's why a lot of business owners will initially start, but then they're like oh my God, it's so difficult and they get out. I feel like the biggest thing is to stay in it.

Elizabeth: 8:07

And this is the problem with resilience, right? So everyone preaches a resilience frame You've got to have better resilience but actually resilience just keeps that roof on your head. You actually have to remove it and actually experience things that require real resilience. So there's this concept of the word resilience in language that people throw around all the time. Oh yeah, I've learned to be really resilient because of that. But really what they mean is I've learned to be really resistant.

Elizabeth: 8:35

And actually true resilience occurs when you're actually putting yourself in risk, trying something new, putting yourself outside the box that you currently live in and starting to grow, and so we have to do a lot of breakdown. When people come to us, we have to break down a lot of their beliefs. Depression, if we look at it from a linguistic perspective, is actually just deep rest. So people who are experiencing depression, they're laying down a lot, they're sleeping a lot, they're not doing a lot, they're in a state of deep rest, and they're in a state of deep rest for multiple reasons, but really all it is is a chemical problem within their body, not their brain. So there's a lot of new research that shows it doesn't happen in the brain, it happens in the body and if we could just get them to walk for 20 minutes a day, that deep rest will actually stop, because they're kind of like hibernating like a bear. So if we get them to walk for 20 minutes a day, they'll actually feel better.

Darren Lee: 9:24

Let's double tap on that. So a lot of your focus is the language that we use, the interpretation and the language you use. I think you've kind of picked up on that with me. A lot of times You're like don't say this because it causes this chain reaction like at our event at the weekend. Just these small little things.

Elizabeth: 9:39

Yeah. So even then, what you just said is that I would say don't say this. I would never say that. I would say, instead of saying this, perhaps say that, because the word don't creates the same thing in your brain. If I say to you don't think of a blue tree, the first thing you have to think of is a blue tree before you can get rid of it.

Darren Lee: 9:55

Okay, so it starts first in the mind, the stories you tell yourself, and then it's a story that quite literally manifest the commodior mode that manifests your actions. So let's work all the way up, I guess yeah.

Elizabeth: 10:07

So we go all the way and you call it up, I'll call it down because it's in the depth, because the language that you use has been deeply rooted within you over generations. So it's not just your own challenges that you're dealing with. You're also dealing with cultural problems. You're also dealing with your own familial problems, your generational problems, so they are all forming your language. So if you've grown up in a poor family that has a history of poverty, then there's going to be things they say like money doesn't grow on trees. You know it's hard literally me it's hard to make money.

Darren Lee: 10:36

That was I. I didn't mean to interrupt your apologies, but that was literally me as a child like, where I had so little money that it was as if it was not that money was evil, it was just it was not attainable. So then when I got become older, I'd realized that it was like input equals output equals outcome, and it was just a product of the inputs that derive an outcome output. And then I made the outputs better that you get me the outcome. And I was mid-20s I kind of had that like earth-shattering, which was I had spent my entire life thinking that this thing wasn't attainable unless you're a doctor, a dentist or a surgeon.

Elizabeth: 11:10

Yeah, and that's a pretty standard Anglo-Saxon belief, right? So England, ireland, scotland, australia that's a pretty standard belief. Unless you're a doctor or a lawyer, you're not going to make that kind of money when, when actually entrepreneurs make way more money and have way more time freedom and so overall they're wealthier and leverage because it's not a money, it's not a time and money exchange it's choice, like if you think about money.

Elizabeth: 11:35

It's literally money is units of choice. So the more money you can create, the more choice that you have. For example, when I flew over here to Bali, I flew in business class because I know in business class I'm going to get access to the internet while I'm on the plane. That means that those six hours on the plane are going to actually be productive hours instead of sitting. And you literally see it every time you get on a plane, everyone's watching a movie. It's like, dude, that's like four hours of your life that you've just given up to fiction or programming, because everything we're watching is programming us right. So there's four hours of your life. You've given up to that and I spent four hours of the flight actually working. And the reason I say four, not six is because there's an hour of takeoff, an hour of descent tell me about energetics?

Elizabeth: 12:18

yeah, great. So if we think that everything is energy, right. So an energy is a ever evolving thing. There's no creation of energy and there's no destruction of energy. There's just transformation of energy. So, for example, when a tree dies, the wood decomposes, it goes down into the dirt and the energy is still there. It's just a different form and equally the same in us.

Elizabeth: 12:50

There's energy available to us. We largely process it through the unconscious mind. So one of the ways that the unconscious mind works is it stores and distributes and transforms energy. So we have an available energy and we have lots of different types of energy as a human. So we have kinetic energy, in other words, if we move, we create energy. We have fuel-based energy, so things like calories or kilojoules, where we actually eat and create energy, and we also have energy available to us from the elements like earth, air, wind, water, right. So we have all this energy around us and it's literally about how we transform it.

Elizabeth: 13:17

So if we're sitting in a state of depression, it doesn't mean that there's no energy. It just means that the energy has transformed into a calm state or a lull state and all we have to do is ignite friction again to create the energy moving. So one of the things to create energy or to actually and it's not really creation, it's destruction, it's distribution of energy is create more friction. Yet society tells us to avoid friction. Yeah, so society will tell you, don't get stressed, right, it's bad to be stressed. Actually, if you're depressed, a little bit of stress would help you because it creates a bit of friction.

Elizabeth: 13:56

Tactical stress, right, if you're sitting in a level as an entrepreneur like, say, you're sitting at that you know, horrible 300K a year mark, because that's like, it's like the zone of death, right, and that's where most like they say one in five businesses fails in the first two years. It's because they hit that 300K mark and don't know how to do anything different, right, so they're sitting in that zone and it's like they're sitting pretty, they finally have got enough money, they've replaced their income from work and it's all working. So there's no more friction, so they're not adding to forward momentum in energy. So they actually need to create a bit of friction, which you know, great entrepreneurs will create a bit of risk at that point and either throw all their money at something and hope that it works or they'll take a risk socially where they do something crazy out loud and hope that it works.

Darren Lee: 14:44

And hire someone, for instance. That's a really interesting point because a lot of people will slow down, like the one person. Business will hustle to get to that point, but it's the same thing that got you there won't get you to like 100k a month or whatever you know, but it's generally by employing someone or, as you say, saying your goals out loud, that it's like, holy shit, I need to realign my actions to get that actual goal.

Darren Lee: 15:04

that's an interesting point yeah, which creates friction and the friction stimulates the energy and then more energy becomes available, which basically means you've increased your capacity and, funnily enough, that that same mental model is actually between the one to three million range, because at one to three million you actually your burn goes so far up. And then also it's the same, it's the same mechanism for the most part to get you to 10 million a year, but the only difference is that you have to burn so much cash to learn, which is why most people never either break out or never decide to break it exactly so, like when our business first hit a million dollars, it was like, oh, this is cool.

Elizabeth: 15:39

And then, and we're sitting on you know, a particular percentage of profit which feels really nice, and then it, oh my God, we actually have to dump our profit so that we can hit the 3 million mark. And then, and you know, right now for us we're at that transition again between three and 10, where it's like, oh, it's time again where we're going to have to dump that profit and run again. And it's the dumping of that profit that creates the friction which increases your capacity to hold the energy it's kind of like the capacity to figure shit out.

Darren Lee: 16:08

You know, and that's part of the entrepreneur's job is just to figure shit out. But I think why I gravitated so much to your work was because I had done so much of the logic of figuring stuff out and it was actually there's a few different moments of me, like letting go of control, leaning more into my mind that allowed me to have those more quantum leaps, quantum jumps that I have to like constantly remind myself of, because it's always like the person. It's not about where you want to get to, it's a person you have to become to get there exactly.

Elizabeth: 16:37

It's never about holistically. Yeah. It's largely about the who right who you are, yeah, and and logic will get you so far and mindset will get you so far, and at some point they converge and you have to use both yeah, which is pretty much where both of us are right now.

Darren Lee: 16:53

Tell me more, but go deeper and more into the energetics part, because I feel like let's go kind of keep hammering, because obviously you can keep hammering it right. But one thing that's important here is, like obviously you're super well known in an LP space. That's why I wanted to dive straight into it. But how did you like really lean into this, like what was it for you? Because obviously you know every corner of this. But where? Why did you not have resistance to learning this?

Elizabeth: 17:20

yeah, great. So at the time that I started this, I was actually in a wheelchair, unable to walk. I was at rock bottom personally. So I was like I'm here, I actually want to kill myself, because I'm taking so many medications a day that all I do is wake up, eat and go back to bed Like I was doing nothing. And, you know, my husband was carrying me up the stairs, taking me to the toilet, taking me to the shower.

Elizabeth: 17:41

I couldn't do a thing, and so for me, it was like there has to be something, because I know I'm made for more, and I think this is a thing that's true for most entrepreneurs. There's this fire that burns in your belly, and even if you are so done with it, even if you're like at that point where it's like I don't want to try anymore, because every time I try I fail, because there's so many entrepreneurs with such great ideas that have come up against resistance or a blockage. For a lot of people, it was COVID when that happened. It was like this blockage that's just stopped them in their tracks, but that fire still burns in their belly, and if the fire is still burning, you have to do something with it. So, even though I felt so sick and I was so not okay. I was like the fire is still there and I have to do something. So what can I do?

Elizabeth: 18:26

And it actually started with me jumping into a multi-level marketing business, which was crazy. I needed makeup for my wedding, even though I was sick. I was getting married, I'd never worn makeup in my life and I'm like I need makeup. And a friend said hey, I have this makeup company, I'll send you a kit. I'm like okay. And they opened the kit and I realized it was a business. I'm like I reckon I can do this from bed. I think I can do this from my phone in bed and that's what I'm doing all day is sitting in bed. I may as well do something with it. And so I started creating this community or team, um, and it went really well and I did that for a couple of years and then I was like okay, I'm back now and I know I'm meant for more you need a small spark, right?

Darren Lee: 19:05

yeah, and it.

Elizabeth: 19:06

Sometimes it doesn't actually have to be like right, you just need that little bit of friction and actually you just tell you kind of a personal.

Darren Lee: 19:10

You asked me about business earlier when I was 23. I was on the back of three failed businesses and you saw about the spark, like I was really burned out. I'd gone back to corporate and at the time I was working for like a very successful startup. Now and that's not because of me, but it's a very well-known startup but I had got to the point whereby like three things had failed. That when COVID was coming up to COVID in 2019, I said to myself it wasn't time to build a business, it was time to slow down, listen and learn.

Darren Lee: 19:37

And that's when I started a podcast and that started this whole thing for me. Because it was, it was a non-oral y activity that showed that well, that proved to myself subconsciously that I could just do something right. But I didn't have to have like the red, the stripe screenshots just to validate my own belief. And then it was a slow stepping stone, so like, whether it's mlm or a fucking podcast, it's just. It's just like it's confidence precedes competency. You become competent to at something and that's why, even for you but this is what's so interesting is because australians irish all the same, to be honest, and it's like there had to be some resistance from people around you when you were going all in on nlp in terms of what it is like, how, because this is many years ago, right, seven, eight years ago. How the hell did you even just understand what it is? Because many people, to this day, don't even know what it is.

Elizabeth: 20:26

Yeah, so it's nearly 10 years ago now and my best friend said to me what you think you're just going to learn about mindset stuff and language stuff, and then you can tell people how to live their lives. And I'm like, well, it's working for me, so why wouldn't it work for someone else? And she's like I think you're crazy. And I'm like what do you mean? She goes I actually don't even want to be a friend anymore.

Darren Lee: 20:46

I'm like what. It's good to share those friends. What it's good to share those friends.

Elizabeth: 20:51

And it was crazy, right, because that happened and the very next month was her 30th birthday and she invited my husband and not me, and it was like that's just rude, you know.

Elizabeth: 21:02

Yeah, and it was like what? Like do you think I care? Now there's no more care for that. The thing is is that there's there's one saying that a lot of people use when they start an entrepreneurial journey, and that is that they're overwhelmed. And one of the things I like to do is look at the etymology of a word. So, in the olden days, what happened was to create a dictionary. A group of men in England sent out scouts all over the world to collect words and what they meant, and then, when they had a word that had multiple, that had the same meaning, from multiple different regions, they would then go okay, cool, this word goes in the dictionary, and the word overwhelmed actually means to have your boat turned over, right.

Elizabeth: 21:43

And so when you talk about your three failed businesses before you started the podcast, it's highly likely that there was a bit of overwhelm, a bit of stress, right. The thing is is you still had your boat, and this is what a lot of people forget when they're overwhelmed. Yeah, sure, your boat's turned over. You're trying to. You know, you're feeling like you're drowning, it's feeling hard. Your boat's still there. Climb on top of it. Climb on top of it. Climb on top of it, make a stand, create the friction you need, start paddling and then, when it feels calm again, turn the boat back around.

Darren Lee: 22:10

Okay. So you're at that point, you're beating that resistance. Why I love that is because a phrase that I always say is when everyone ignores you, everyone laughs at you when you start, ignores you when you're stuck, but claps for you at the finish line. So you had broken away from, like, the traditional way of thinking and probably just job structure. What happened next?

Elizabeth: 22:30

Probably the key point at which I knew that I was starting to get successful was when my ex-boyfriend's best friend messaged me on Facebook and said hey, I'm trying to get a home loan. Would you be able to lend me $50,000 so that I can pay the deposit? And at this point my business was making like $200,000 a year. I'm like you want me to give you a quarter of my income. We live in Australia, so take away half the tax. So now you want to give me half my income to my ex-boyfriend's best friend? Like no, no, you can't have it.

Elizabeth: 23:07

And what was interesting is a great learning, because previously I had given everything away, like I was very, very generous, I gave a lot of time. Some people would have called me a people pleaser, right. And when this happened, I actually felt bad that I couldn't give him $50,000. So, even though I was a no, there was a feeling inside of oh my God, imagine what it would be like if I could give him $50,000. And that was the opening of the new level. It was like okay, so it's not just about me anymore, it's about how can I create wealth for others as well, so that I can give more and more back and I think there's something to be said about people pleasing here for your audience that a lot of people get accused of people pleasing. If it's hurting you, it's a problem. If it's making you happy, it's totally fine. So as long as you're not giving something up in order to please others, people pleasing is okay. If you're giving something up or it's creating some kind of drama internally for you, then stop it.

Darren Lee: 24:00

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Darren Lee: 24:26

Well, isn't that inherently what the best coaches are with boundaries? So, if you can add a boundary limit, because I'm actually in that boat, like I'm inherently insecure, so I want to over deliver and especially for our agency, it's service delivery, so we can technically over deliver all the time and we try to over index in that, which actually just means we leave a really good impression and have a good reputation. And then we have a boundary of don't message me on whatsapp at like two o'clock in the morning. Okay, like it's like you can do that with a boundary and still become more successful than having a very cold attitude, which is why a lot of coaches don't survive yeah and I think this is where business versus a you business, correct?

Darren Lee: 25:05

and I think this is where a lot of coaches don't survive.

Elizabeth: 25:05

Yeah, and I think this is where Because it's a me business versus a you business, Correct. And I think this is where the definition of boundaries comes in right. So I have a big saying in my community, in my world, that if you need boundaries, you're probably working with the wrong people. Right Now that's very different in an agency world, but in the coaching world, if you're needing boundaries, then you're needing boundaries, then you're working with the wrong people, because the people who you love are never going to message you at three o'clock in the morning. The people who you love are never going to disrespect dinner time. Like the people who you really are aligned with, you're not going to need boundaries from them. Like and you know the way I live with my team like our whole team knows when and when to call, Like.

Elizabeth: 25:43

So, for example, one of our team members has just had a baby. I know that at 6.30 in the morning she's going to be getting that baby up, she's going to be feeding the baby and then she's going to go for a walk. So if I want to talk to her, I'm not going to talk to her until 7.30 in the morning, when I know that she's out for her walk and everything's stable, for example. So there's no need for her to have a boundary, because I respect her life and her space Equally with her. There's no need for me to have a boundary, because she does the same thing back. And so this is how can you put more and more aligned people into your world so that those boundaries are never crossed and therefore become unnecessary?

Elizabeth: 26:19

When you're starting out, it's a bit different. When you're starting out, you need clear boundaries of what you'll accept with warmth. So if you want to say to someone and this is where coaches get confused, right, Because they will say something like you have access 24 seven to a chat. Now, technically, that what that means is they can message you at three o'clock in the morning, what you have to say is you have access to the chat 24 seven7 and I'll be available in the chat on and off throughout the day. Because then you've made a boundary without creating a boundary. And they know then that if their message at three o'clock in the morning is to satisfy their own need and that you're not going to answer at three o'clock in the morning.

Darren Lee: 27:01

Makes sense. What other elements of NLP are kind of widely misunderstood?

Elizabeth: 27:09

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is that it is actually looking at the unconscious mind and learning how to make sense of it and utilize it. Now, if we combine that with a whole lot of other things, it can be utilized incorrectly, which would be bad. So with everything in life, there's the positive application and the negative application. Yeah, so, um, there was a thing called the MK ultra project that was used with the CIA um in the seventies in the U S right, where they created double agents, where they utilized some mind control, hypnosis and a few other things, including psychedelics and drugs for mind control, and they created agents who could have a life that was at home, and the agents had no idea that when they went to work, trigger words would be used and they would switch on their alter ego or their alter personality and then they would go out and become killing machines and then they would come back, the trigger words would be used and they'd go home. So they were basically complete split personalities and they never knew it had happened, and so a lot of people have kept that, you know, held onto that that happened in the seventies and gone.

Elizabeth: 28:16

It wasn't part of NLP, however, the techniques of NLP were utilized in it, and so so some people go, oh it's bad, it's mind control, right? The thing is, is someone's already controlling your mind or something's already controlling your mind, like if you're sitting watching Netflix or scrolling on your phone the whole time, you are being programmed all the time. All advertising material is program material, right, if you believe in anything, that's a program. Now can you believe in nothing? Absolutely not. So it's not about unprogramming yourself. It's about programming yourself with the best possible program for the outcome that you want.

Darren Lee: 28:56

How do you do that in the context of someone's business? Because I completely agree with you, it's like the dose is super important and the context is super important. So I'll give you a story from my first mastermind. A guy was there in a kind of personal development space, kind of the healing space, and he asked me why do I think like some people crush it in a personal development space, like entrepreneurs, versus the random guy that walks around Uber with no shoes? And I just said it was a context with the outcome of business. So if you look at like a mind volley, whether you like them or hate them, I don't even know them.

Elizabeth: 29:30

They're great at it.

Darren Lee: 29:31

They just said here is personal development to make more money. They didn't say it, but they inferred it and he put Stephen Barrett more money. So they use it in the right context. Yes, so I think that's kind of basically backing up your point as well. It's just like we need to realign it towards any type of business owner, but specifically who you actually work with.

Elizabeth: 29:55

Yeah. So, for example, the guy walking barefoot in Ubud, who does he want to serve? If he's living in Ubud, he's probably looking for spiritual people. Yeah, and he's living in Ubud, he's probably looking for spiritual people. Yeah, so, and he's probably in larger spiritual himself, because there's a lot of those kind of people live in Ubud, right? So he's in this journey where he wants things slow, he wants to meditate every morning, he wants to be chilled out and at the same time, he's expecting fast pace in his business. Like that's just incongruent, you know what I mean. So he's energetically creating this calm, still lifestyle while expecting to gain a whole lot of money for it and would you?

Darren Lee: 30:29

say that's not possible it's completely impossible.

Elizabeth: 30:33

Like I would go that far if he was living in ubud and he was up every morning doing the work on his business and then he went to meditate at lunchtime, when the sun is at its hottest, when it actually makes sense to rest. Then perhaps he could still have a meditative lifestyle and make money completely agree the thing is is in the morning, the sun gets up, the birds get up, the animals get up, the cars go out.

Darren Lee: 30:57

Like the energy in any country is in the morning, if you're not utilizing it, you're stupid so when you're, when you've new people coming into your world and you're getting them huge breakthroughs, yeah, how much of those you think are like everlasting? Like how much time do you need to go back to the mechanism and modality?

Elizabeth: 31:18

yeah. So I think you have to think of personal development as non-linear. So it's a spiral, and so you go around and up right, and so every time you come back around to where that favorite flavor exists so say, your favorite flavor is I'm not good enough. You're going to get over the I'm not good enough at this level and then you're going to go around on this nice journey and it's going to feel great and then eventually, as you start to ascend to the next level, you're going to come back around to that I'm not good enough to ascend to the next level.

Darren Lee: 31:45

you're going to come back around to that. I'm not good enough, Is that?

Elizabeth: 31:48

subconscious or unconscious, because I honestly don't think I ever think about those things.

Darren Lee: 31:49

It's completely unconscious. And where does it? Where does it manifest?

Elizabeth: 31:52

Yeah, so the way that you mentioned it before you said, what did you say about yourself? You mentioned that you are a I don't think you're largely an insecure person.

Darren Lee: 32:00

I'm inherently insecure.

Elizabeth: 32:04

Yeah, so that insecurity would be that problem. Right, that's that mindset. So you're insecure about something. You get over the insecurity, you create the new thing. You come around the corner and when you come back again to the next level, there's a new type of insecurity to have. And so then you overcome that and as you go further and further up, it becomes a much quicker process and you barely notice it. So now you wouldn't be noticing it so much. However, when that first business failed, you probably went, oh my God, should I do it again? I don't know if I should, and you probably took a lot longer then than what you would now to overcome it. And then you come around and up the spiral, and so when someone comes into our integrated NLP training room, for example, viral, and so when someone comes into our integrated nlp training room, for example, they all come in at different levels.

Darren Lee: 32:48

We have a huge, huge variance of people that come into our room that must be tough to hold the room well, I have a fantastic team but it's just interesting because, like our masterminds are based on revenue, so sometimes that's the difficulty is like people are in different parts of their journey yeah but for you it's like it's different.

Elizabeth: 33:04

There's a bit of mind, there's a bit of mindset, there's a bit of relationships, there's a bit of money, there's a bit of job security, there's a bit of, like, what's going on in their brain, there's a bit of what's going on in their body. There's multiple different things, okay, and and it all comes down to the root cause, though all of those challenges have been created by one root cause in their body.

Darren Lee: 33:24

Okay, let's really stay in that. So the limiting belief coupled with the root cause of it. So I think for people listening to as well, it's like think about this in your context. So my context is I'm a small guy inherently. So, when I was younger, I got really big and I'm like, I'm quite like big, let's say in there. Right.

Darren Lee: 33:48

But I'm small and hide, yeah, so it's kind of like this, like it's like um, how to describe it is it's like a tie down, but it's effectively it's a different way. It's like it's an you overcome the the obstacle with like undeniable proof absolutely, so I can go to the gym yeah because I just did it. Then the next thing comes with, like intelligence, I'm inherently not that smart. I just sat in the library for four years straight and then I did very well on my exams, yeah, um.

Elizabeth: 34:05

So my kind of reaction is like brute force, effectively, yeah to the thing and I think, I think largely all entrepreneurs are brute force, yeah, and so you have these entrepreneurs that are like I don't want to do it like that. It's like, well, that's just how an entrepreneur knows how to do it I've never, ever, said something like that.

Darren Lee: 34:23

Am I tired? I completely understand those people. If someone's like that to me, I'm like this is not going to work out for you.

Elizabeth: 34:28

Yeah, it's like you're not an entrepreneur. It's cool. It's cool, you might still have some success, but you're not going to be an entrepreneur if you don't want to at some point create some necessary.

Elizabeth: 34:40

Yeah, and the thing is is if you were in a game show where you got locked in a dungeon, I'd love it. If you're in a game show where you got locked in a dungeon and the object was to get out for $5 million, at first you'd be strategic, but the minute that it got into your brain that the other person in the other dungeon the time had been long enough that they might've figured it out you'd use brute force to get out of that room. And this is the thing is, you will do whatever it takes and you'll start at the top of logic and then you'll slowly come down until you're in brute physicality. Okay, right, and so the same, with a root cause. What happens is people start in logic, so say you know, say they get hurt by a woman, like if it's a guy, a young guy, he's starting his entrepreneurial journey, he's doing okay, and then his girlfriend leaves him and it's a pretty messy breakup.

Elizabeth: 35:31

There's going to be a bit of I'm not good enough, come up for him, yeah. And so he'll do one of two things He'll either work harder to prove he's good enough which is great, that's success or he'll suddenly go deep into the feelings and stay stuck in a cycle of feeling pretending he wants success but never actually doing enough to gain it. So then we have to go back down to that root cause, and the root cause in something like that is probably something like his mother left him or his father left him when he was young and he has this massive fear of abandonment.

Elizabeth: 36:07

so the girlfriend leaving him has brought up all that old trauma from when he was young and he believes then that, like and he doesn't know, this is all happening on an unconscious level, right? So what we do is we go back down to that root cause, recognize that, yes, something happened to you. It's terrible, it may have influenced you. It does not define you, yeah. So the thing is, is the difference between definition? If we get a lot of women who've been sexually abused, right, and? And, yes, that's a terrible thing, it should never have ever happened to them? But the fact is that they're an adult now and they get to choose. They get to choose whether they're going to live their whole life through that story or they get to choose whether they're going to do the work to actually recover from that story and and create a life that they actually want to live that's so powerful.

Darren Lee: 37:00

So, when you identify that root cause, how do you, how do you solve it for them? Because, like even for myself, right, um, like when I was younger, like extreme, extreme pressure on like sports. I'm like, yeah, like I was like very close to being a pro athlete for actually different sports, but that's caused, like obviously, a couple of thousand other things. But that's where, like, the need to not need desire to be like exceptional things comes from.

Elizabeth: 37:28

Yes.

Darren Lee: 37:28

Because, like, I'm from an individual sport background, yeah, but knowing that and let's say that bled into negative consequences, let's say, instead of having a reaction of getting better, I like leaned into devices of like sex and drugs and alcohol, which for many years I actually also did. How do you actually overcome that then? True nlp or true your practices and may not even be nlp to have those breakthroughs and then to also stay aligned to that?

Elizabeth: 37:58

yeah, so it depends on whether you're asking the method or the intention.

Elizabeth: 38:02

So I guess the method to solve the root cause and then, I guess, can you spend the intention, yeah, so we have thoughts, feelings and actions, right, okay, all humans have thoughts, feelings and actions, and those three things happen within the context of environment. So a lot of people go. I just have to change my thoughts, right, like if someone's had a breakup and all they keep thinking about is the breakup they go. I just have to change my thoughts. I just have to change my thoughts. I just have to change my thoughts and they focus on the thoughts, but actually the thoughts are the problem. So if you keep focusing on them, they'll keep being the problem so you have to go.

Elizabeth: 38:36

Okay, the thought is where the problem exists, so let me go to feelings or actions. So what can I do differently? Or what can I feel differently about it? Because in a breakup you might be able to feel well, thank goodness they're gone, I can focus on my business.

Darren Lee: 38:48

How can you feel differently? Genuine question. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Elizabeth: 38:52

So if you can't right because some people are capable of feeling straight away and some people are not- I'm definitely not Genuinely, genuinely as in like I don't know how to.

Darren Lee: 39:02

I wouldn't know how to change my feelings consciously.

Elizabeth: 39:06

Yeah. So just imagine you're in a feeling of sadness. The way to get out of sadness is to create more joy. So you create more joy until it's so overabundant that it's impossible to feel sadness okay, so what that's called bypassing right. So that's called bypassing your feelings so what we want to do?

Elizabeth: 39:26

is. We want to actually get to the root cause of the sadness, disconnect that and then create abundant joy. Yeah, because if you disconnect sadness but you don't create joy, you're just going to leave someone feeling a void. And if they feel a void, eventually they'll fill the void with something. And so if you haven't given them the tools and resources to fill it with something positive, they'll go and fill it back up the same way they did in the first place and end up with the same problem again so that's why entrepreneurs would self-sabotage a hundred percent, because what happens is they get to a level and they go okay, cool, I'm clear.

Elizabeth: 39:58

And they create a void, and then the void exists and they go I don't know what to do with this and so they start filling it up with all the old shit, because that's the program it's funny because you know, charlie, obviously very well, yeah like charlie is a friend of mine and a client of mine.

Darren Lee: 40:13

Yeah, and whenever we go back and forth, he will tinker with things to break them. Yeah, he'll just try break it and then he'll. He'll stop himself like, oh, I'm trying to sell sabotage yeah if something will work, perfectly fine and he will try to like break it yeah, because that's his whole program he will try to like break it.

Darren Lee: 40:28

Then he'll stop himself to be fair. But even like andrew, who you met at the weekend in person, like he will. He will do things deliberately to fuck something that's working well. Yeah, that's crazy, and also I do this too right. I'm not like a.

Elizabeth: 40:43

If you look at them and they both have different reasons for it. From my conversations with them, however, the thing is is that at some point in their life something broke that they have not yet reconciled in their mind, right? So if you are someone who wants to break things all the time, so say it's a guy who gets in a relationship, it's going well and he breaks it. Then he gets in another relationship it's going well and he breaks it, and he just has this constant pattern of ruining relationships. It's because at some point there was a ruined relationship in his life that he can't make sense of it. So most of our deep programs come from a trauma if you want to use that word that happened when we were before the age of seven, that we haven't made sense of yet. So say your parents split up when you were four.

Elizabeth: 41:26

On some level, as a child, you're going to think it's because of you, because a four-year-old doesn't know that other people exist. They just know that they exist. So they look at mom and dad and go it must be me All right. And they don't do that consciously, it happens unconsciously. And so then throughout their life they're going to create relationships that have challenges, because really what they're wanting to do is solve the problem of their mom and dad in their own mind, because they couldn't reconcile it when they were a child. So they spend their adulthood trying to reconcile it and so they create the same problem over and over again in order to get the answer to the original problem. If we go back and actually give them the resources they have now to the four-year-old child energetically, then we clear up that energetic line.

Elizabeth: 42:07

They no longer have to spend their whole life trying to solve the problem what would be some of those like frameworks and tactics people can use so to make this super actionable yeah, so we use something called emotional change technique, which is a a timeline technique that I developed and where and we combine the mind, the body and the spirit and we actually take them back to that period of time where that first trauma happened. We disconnect the trauma from the physical, the mental and the emotional, or the physical, the mental, mental, spiritual in that moment. We then bring them forward on their timeline. And this is going to sound woo-woo to a lot of people.

Darren Lee: 42:41

Sorry, how can you detach from that?

Elizabeth: 42:42

Yeah, so we we actually get them to find the positive intention of the trauma that happened to them.

Darren Lee: 42:49

So you've mentioned trauma a few times. What's your definition of trauma?

Elizabeth: 42:52

I know you think trauma is just something that's happened to you that has created a program. Now, that's very different to what some people would call trauma. So some people are like trauma is when you go to war and you see some guys shot up in front of you. Some people would say trauma is when you're actually abused. That's an effect, right, but that's actually the effect of the trauma. So everyone has experienced something that they would label as a traumatic event. So it might've been like for me. One of the things was riding my bike down a hill and crashing into the rose bushes and ending up with thorns all through my leg. That then went posse and I remember thinking it was so cool that my leg went posse that I ended up becoming a nurse, right? So my my first job was being a nurse because I actually thought the posse was cool. Now that's a program. It's the same thing with trauma. So if that trauma had resulted in a negative thought, I might never have got back on a bike, right?

Darren Lee: 43:42

so if I didn't like the past or I didn't like the pain that it caused, then I maybe never would have ridden a bike again and it's funny because in the context of this I was thinking back to my journey and I'll tell you kind of offline, like the actual event, but I had a really bad experience with water as a young kid. Really really bad. I'll tell you about it later. Someone in my team had that happen. Basically, I had like hidden it, or what's the word.

Elizabeth: 44:05

Like subdued it. So basically, you just buried it deep in your unconscious mind.

Darren Lee: 44:09

Until, and, as a result, I was never really good at swimming and I never took the water. Now I can swim, swim, but I never like.

Darren Lee: 44:18

found it interesting yeah until I'd actually moved to singapore and I had a 50 meter pool in my, my, my condo and I got into long distance swimming, and then it wasn't many years years later. I had reconciled that, that impact of that event, yes, and then I was like holy fucking shit, this is actually the reason why I always stayed away from water, even though I was actually good at swimming when I got into the pool, yeah, so it was like this thing that I had hidden or suppressed, that had manifested in other ways yeah that had made me second guess myself.

Darren Lee: 44:51

Yeah and yeah, arguably I've reconciled that maybe I haven't in this way. That's why I'm very, uh, hesitant to say I've overcome something, because obviously I've barely touched the surface, compared to, like someone like yourself who knows, like, how to get into the the depths of something.

Elizabeth: 45:07

Yeah, and it's a convoluted path, right, so there's multiple things that happen on the way that you're like is that it? Is that it?

Darren Lee: 45:12

no, maybe that's not it it's like an open and you closed loop circuit.

Elizabeth: 45:15

So you've got to, basically because these are people who have all the doors shut right In their room. Like, if we loop back to what I said at the beginning, they've got all the doors shut internally. And so, as an NLP practitioner and as a trainer myself, I go in and start opening doors and you see what's behind the doors, and when you start opening enough doors, people have to reveal what's behind the door how do you do that with someone who has that suppressed, like effects or trauma, and I'm even hesitant saying the words because obviously it means different things in your context.

Darren Lee: 45:46

But like I'm saying, it's true, my lens, and I suppose it's really good because we can look at someone with ptsd, right, so okay.

Elizabeth: 45:51

So if we go to someone who's experienced war and they've experienced war trauma, where they've actually seen some pretty horrific things, so language is really important a lot of people will say things like if they have to get on their moped in the rain in bali, they'll go oh, it's horrific. But actually horrific comes from the word horror, and if you think about horror, you don't think of someone riding a moped in bali.

Darren Lee: 46:14

That's me in the morning going out to get my coffee.

Elizabeth: 46:18

So you use this word horrific.

Elizabeth: 46:19

But there's actually no horror, but this is how we use, this is how we create problems, right? So we create problems by using this challenging word to mean that, and then we're more likely to experience more traffic on the road or whatever, because we create our reality with every word we speak. So if we go to someone with PTSD, they've actually seen something horrific, right. They've had a horrific experience in the context of horror that most people would consider horror. However, the way that they've created it is, they've got a visual, in other words, they saw something. Associated to that, they've got usually a noise, so some kind of auditory, and then, associated to that, they've got a feeling. Now, most people know about the visual, the auditory and the kinesthetic, or the feeling right.

Elizabeth: 46:59

What people forget when they're treating PTSD is that largely, there's a smell, right, and so we have five senses, and this is what we work with in an integrated NLP. So we have our sight, our visions, we have our ears, our auditory, we have our skin and our touch is our kinesthetic. Then we have our smell, which is our ol. We have our skin and our touch is our kinesthetic. Then we have our smell, which is our olfactory, and then we have taste, which is gustatory. So when you're dealing with something like PTSD, the reason that it's so deep and so hard to get rid of is because it doesn't just exist in the visual, the auditory and the kinesthetic. There's always an olfactory or a gustatory, so a smell or a taste that holds it in place, and most therapists forget to go there. So what we would do is we have to. First of all, we have to disconnect the visual, right? We don't want them to constantly close their eyes every night and see the same picture, so we do that by creating a new picture for them. We then have to get rid of the auditory, so we have to put new sounds in place, or we have to basically turn down the dial in their brain that controls how loud that noise was.

Elizabeth: 48:01

Then the feeling has to change and the way we do the feeling is we use a process called anchoring. So anchoring comes from, like you would be familiar with the knee jerk response when a doctor hits your hammer on your knee, your leg kicks up right. So we can utilize anchoring in multiple different places in the body to re-change the feeling that someone's having. So, and by doing that we disconnect the feeling, and then most therapists stop there and at that point someone with PTSD is largely going to have an improvement Yet over time and this is what the question you asked before.

Elizabeth: 48:35

So over over time it'll slowly creep back in because you haven't given them enough disconnection from the event. Because if you can imagine someone's in war and there's bodies in front of them, then there's a smell, right, and that smell is what holds the whole memory in place. So unless you disconnect the smell, which most therapists think is unimportant, then they're going to be laying in bed one night. They'll get the picture. They know how to flick the picture away, but the smell will be there and it'll pull the whole image back in and the whole feeling back in and the whole noise back in. And so you have to disconnect all five senses when you're working with PTSD, because they're very closely linked.

Darren Lee: 49:15

How do you disconnect the smell?

Elizabeth: 49:17

Yeah, you have to give them a new smell. So I'll give you an example. Recently there was a policeman that had come into our world and one of the kids that he'd had to resuscitate had used some, you know, those little bulbs that you blow cream up with I can't remember what they're called Like if you have a shaker thing with anyone putting whipped cream on something the little bulb things, yeah, so this kid had been sniffing that and he'd found him in the street and he had to resuscitate him, and so he had absolutely disconnected the picture. He was like you know, it was unfortunate, but it happened. He disconnected the noise which was someone screaming saying help, help. He disconnected the feeling of you know, okay, it's too late, I can't feel anything anymore because this person's died. But what he couldn't disconnect was the smell of that stuff, because every time he's closed his eyes and thought about the boy, instead of being able to just swipe it away or he could just smell it.

Elizabeth: 50:09

And so what we did is we actually looked at his environment on that day, and it was outside a shopping center, and so I got him to look really closely at the scene and identify what other smells were available to him on that day so that he didn't have to focus on that one smell. So, for example, the police station was across the road. It had a rose garden, so the scent of roses was in the air. There was hot dogs inside the shopping center that was in the air. There was a guy doing a wheelie down the street like a not a wheelie, a burnout down the street, so there was a smell of rubber in the air. And so then what you do is you turn down the dial on the smell that he doesn't want to smell and you turn up the dial in the brain on the smells that were also available at exactly the same time, in order to cut that trauma pattern so you find the smell smell, which is the root cause.

Darren Lee: 50:58

But how do you attach it?

Elizabeth: 51:01

Through anchoring.

Darren Lee: 51:02

Yes sorry.

Elizabeth: 51:03

I think I'm missing the series. The actual processes are called submodalities and anchoring. Okay. Yeah, and we teach you those in NLP.

Darren Lee: 51:11

And is there a scenario whereby you can like overcome it and it's like done?

Elizabeth: 51:16

It's done's done, completely done crazy.

Darren Lee: 51:21

Yeah, when would it resurface? As in in the event when you don't hit all five.

Elizabeth: 51:27

It won't, so I'll give you another example, a guy who was in afghanistan I won't give you the details because it's quite horrific. Um, so he came to me and I worked with him for four weeks, which was one hour a week, so essentially four hours, and his ptsd is gone now. He had been going through rehab for five years, right, so he's gone to therapists he'd gone to you know, different kinds of therapy for five years came to me.

Darren Lee: 51:52

We did it in four hours, and when he attempts to go back on his timeline, like if he looks to his past, there's just nothing there I think what's so interesting, um is when you look at the kind of personal development sphere, everyone consciously or unconsciously kind of shits on other people's modalities. Yeah right, and when I was looking up more about nlp, people were saying like, oh, like, the scientific evidence of nlp isn't there.

Darren Lee: 52:21

Now, if we were to follow science, we'd all be taking jobs every 20 seconds right, let's be clear but similarly, you know you'd reflect on the psychology being like, oh, like, that wasn't effective yeah two things like one why do you think that is and then did it have that negative reaction? And then two what's your feedback for people when they criticize NLP?

Elizabeth: 52:45

Yeah. So where focus goes, energy flows right. So we all know that we have a reticular activating system in our brain which is, say, you want to buy a new white Ferrari, you're going to see white Ferraris. All of a sudden, they're just going to be everywhere. They'll be in magazines, they'll be on advertising, you'll see them driving down the street because you're focused on that. Similarly, when someone is focused on the problem which largely psychiatrists and psychologists are, they focus on the problem then every time you go in for a session, you're focused on the problem.

Darren Lee: 53:17

So your brain will keep finding the problem. If we're focused on the solution, our brain will look for the solution. I remember when I went back to therapy for one of many reasons, but I remember it was weekly and I was. I was doing a lot of stuff in between, like I was focused on it, I was training a lot. I felt like I was getting better. But whenever I'd go back to that session on like a Tuesday evening, they were like no, no, no, you got to go all the bathroom before Because they go back to that session on like a Tuesday evening they were like no, no, you gotta go all the bathroom, you're four, because they go back to the problem every single time and it was like eight weeks of me doing the same fucking thing that I felt like I was like, oh my fucking god, I'm way better if it was on my own.

Darren Lee: 53:47

Yeah, you know, because I'm like future pacing. Yeah, it's like a business, right? You're always looking at the next thing versus the previous thing yeah, and that doesn't mean bypassing.

Elizabeth: 53:55

You definitely have to deal with that old thing. However, you have to also be future pacing yourself, yes, and so that's why I said that, largely, this will work better because we're focused on what the outcome is. We want the outcome rather than the problem.

Darren Lee: 54:08

And it's the same with the medication that's prescribed, right? My observation from people that I know it's not like hey, hey, we're going to put you on like 150 milligrams of antidepressant to come off it in six months. It's just like you're just on it.

Darren Lee: 54:22

So it becomes like this lifestyle event that is, that is basically embedded into your new surroundings, and one of them, someone that's very close to me. I worked with them directly to just be like hey, like okay, over the next 180 days, let's look to reduce the medication in this way. Of course, make sure that everything's aligned and you feel good and it doesn't, you know, fuck your hormones and everything. But for the most part, like let's try get off this thing yeah.

Elizabeth: 54:47

so the thing get better. If we look at the research, antidepressants only work in one percent of people that are put on them. Most people you speak to that are on antidepressants will report that they're still depressed, and it's because antidepressants have a way of just dulling everything down, and so even when the person gets over that initial challenge, everything else is dialed down, so we can't fill them up with joy, so they still experience this large level of depression. And so, if we look at that, coming off the medication is possible. Now, should everyone come off medication all of a sudden? Absolutely not.

Elizabeth: 55:24

However, when we're talking about depression, there's new research that shows that it's not about a chemical imbalance in the brain. That research came out about six months ago and everyone thought that the whole problem with depression was that you had a chemical imbalance in your brain and you had to fix the chemicals by giving them medication. Actually, that's not true, and now we've got a big study that's a useful study that shows that it's not about that. Yeah, and so what we want to do is actually make people happy, actually go to the root cause of the depression disconnect that change the visual, the auditesthetic, the smell, the taste and make it better so basically your response kind of more to the criticism is that if they focus on that, then that becomes a reality like what's focal is causal, which is robert cialdini, absolutely, we said this today as well.

Darren Lee: 56:09

Yeah, it's if you focus on that. But again, you're focusing more on the joy, which I completely agree with, future pacing, the opportunity versus the drawback.

Elizabeth: 56:19

Yeah, and then in terms of if people are criticizing the personal development industry or NLP, so what I think is really important is that we focus on what we want, and so I don't even want to answer that question because it's not in my reality.

Darren Lee: 56:35

Yeah, it's kind of like when people say don't start a business because it's going to fail. It's like if you think it's not in my reality. Yeah, it's kind of like when people say don't start a business because it's going to fail. It's like if you think it's going to fail, it will just fail.

Elizabeth: 56:40

Yeah, so rather not focus on that, because otherwise I would be buying into the same thing and just sitting on my own industry.

Darren Lee: 56:48

It's just so interesting, right? Because if you are focused on actually just getting better improving your business improving are focused on actually just getting better improving your business, improving yourself, improving relationships and your health then doing just something to do with it, it's going to be better than what you're doing right now.

Elizabeth: 57:01

And then there's absolutely no choice but to succeed.

Darren Lee: 57:03

Yes, yeah, exactly. Who was your biggest influences with this?

Elizabeth: 57:12

Yeah, great. So my biggest influences Jim Rohn and Tony Robbins. So I had a CD of Jim Rohn, who's he was basically the guy who Tony Robbins learned from, and so I had a CD from him when I was young and I just used to listen to it on repeat and it was more about learning how I could do something at a time that I couldn't afford anything.

Elizabeth: 57:28

So I couldn't afford personal development, but this free CD had come in the mail and I was like I'm just going to keep listening to that and like there was a point in my life where I could have probably recited the whole CD. That's no longer the case, and from that I learned that, oh, the person who came after him was Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins used to clean the floor at Jim Rohn events and clean the toilets at Jim Rohn's events, because Tony Robbins couldn't afford it.

Darren Lee: 57:54

What was Tony Robbins' background?

Elizabeth: 57:56

So he was poor Like he was. He grew up in a really poor family. He wanted to do something Huge family, right, Big family and he wanted to do something. So Jim Rohn said, well, if you want to come to my event and you can't afford a ticket, you can come and clean the toilets and that'll get you in the room. And so he did.

Elizabeth: 58:12

And so then I'm like, okay, I like this guy because he's had tenacity from the beginning, so let's go listen to some of his stuff. And then and then I went to a few Tony Robbins events, which you know a part of my story which doesn't need to be explored here very much, but I was very, very unwell and then I did a firewalk and suddenly started becoming better and one of those things for me was like I started there. And then since then, I've spoken at events with Tony Robbins, right, so we've been on the same stages together, speaking to 40,000 people, and that's an incredible turnaround from where I first was, when I first went to one of his events. But they would be the two biggest male mentors In terms of females.

Elizabeth: 58:52

There's, unfortunately, not a lot of people that I have used as my backup, Although I am going to say my grandmother because she had super high standards. Super high standards Like when you're a little kid you did not want to cross my grandmother Because if you did the wrong thing, if you left a towel on the floor or your sock in the hallway, or like she would come after you. However, those standards as an adult have served me well.

Darren Lee: 59:17

How you do one thing, so you do everything. Absolutely tell me more about the identity sort of. The firewalk seems to be like a way to shed, like the old identity. Yeah, and I see yourself and all of our team as well talk about that identity shift and I feel like we don't lean into it as much. But the person who grows a big business they have to change identity yeah how much do you lean into this?

Darren Lee: 59:38

because I think what's really important is about when you understand nlp or basically like how you want to do the transformation with someone or what transformation is. What's very interesting is the modalities that you use, or like what you actually teach people. Right. It's because it's very you're teaching them a lot of business skills, which is super unique. Let's lean into the identity part, like how do you think about that and how do you change your identity?

Elizabeth: 1:00:05

Yeah, great. So right now, if you're listening to this podcast, then you are a person who exists within some kind of box or framework that you've created around yourself as humans. One of the things we that you've created around yourself as humans, one of the things we really like to feel is safe, and so we create boxes around ourselves, and so these boxes have limitations. In other words, everyone has limitations, because every belief you have is limiting. Now, can we get rid of all our beliefs? Absolutely not. You have to choose the most empowering ones.

Elizabeth: 1:00:36

So if you have a belief that you're a millionaire, then it's limiting you from becoming a billionaire, right? Because you identify as a millionaire. So if you start identifying as a billionaire, if you only hit 500 million, that would be okay, wouldn't it? Like you'd still feel good. So this is about you put yourself in a box, whatever that is.

Elizabeth: 1:00:58

So let's take someone who has just finished school and they're thinking about starting a business and they're not sure how to do it. They've currently got themselves in the box of most likely my parents want me to go to uni or college. They've got the box of I don't have enough money. They've got the box of I don't have enough money. They've got the box of I don't really know where to start. I don't know what this first step is, and so they've got this box of identity around them and they feel safe in that box, and so they've created the problems that exist within that box. There's a whole nother box available to them, which has got its lid wide open, ready to accept them, which is actually tenacity, discipline and focus will get you into the new box, right? And so for some people, they'll listen to people like us talk about tenacity, discipline and focus and they'll jump into the new box and then the old box needs to be shut and burned so that they can't go back.

Elizabeth: 1:01:55

And this is where that concept of burn the boats comes from right. So the story of the army went to the island and the captain said you know? The second in charge said how are we going to take the island? And the captain said I don't know, but there's only one way we burn the boats. And they burnt the boats. So they had to win the war on the island because there was no way off if they didn't, right, if they didn't. Now am I all about burn the boats? No, I actually think that you need to, in today's day and age, hold on to some level of financial security, whether that's just a part-time job, working at a cafe, doing something. When you first start, I feel as though if you put yourself into survival, you're going to go back to the survival box. So just have something. It only needs to be a little bit. It just needs enough to make you eat and have somewhere to live.

Darren Lee: 1:02:39

And it also satisfies the need, so that you're not super stressed and acting out of a sympathetic nervous system Desperation.

Elizabeth: 1:02:46

Yeah, exactly, it keeps us in a parasympathetic system, right. So then what we have to do is we have to go. Okay, cool, what is the new identity I want to step into? And how does that person behave?

Elizabeth: 1:02:56

So, when I first decided to become a millionaire, one of the first things I did was throw out my television, because I was like there is no millionaire that is sitting down watching TV at night. They're just not doing it. So I threw out my television. My kids were not particularly happy, and I'm like we can do other things, because if you were playing and this is what my family did, because I had kids by the time I decided to be an entrepreneur. Like it's crazy, we played monopoly. Why? Because monopoly is all about property investing, it's about dealing, it's about trading, it's about learning principles of business, and so you play a game that's actually going to benefit you in business Right now. I don't know, it worked for me and it worked for lots of other people too Even playing cards. You're learning strategy, right? So, get rid of like. This is what I did. I got rid of the TV and I used that time to still have connective time with my family. I didn't work necessarily in that time and then after the kids went to bed, then I'd work my family. I didn't work necessarily in that time, and then after the kids went to bed, then I'd work, and I wanted to work because I was really, really excited about creating that new identity.

Elizabeth: 1:04:06

So if someone's in their box of identity, then they have the same problems of anyone else in that box of identity. And so over time someone like me can look at the problems and go, oh, that's the box you're in. We just need to open this box. And once we open this box and make it attractive enough and give you the tools and resources, you can jump into it. Right. So how do you do it for yourself?

Elizabeth: 1:04:28

Well, first of all you have to work out what do you want as your new identity, and most people are pretty good with that bit. Most people can say I want to have a business, I want it to make you know a hundred K a month and I want to feel good and have some time to myself. Most people are good at that bit. And then they go how, right. And so then they need the strategies and the tools and techniques to get them through the how. But then it gets to the who right. So we go what, how, and then it's who?

Elizabeth: 1:04:58

And if they have, then becoming a $100,000 a month business owner is going to really mess with their identity, for multiple reasons. One of the biggest reasons is it'll make them different from their parents, and if it makes them different from their parents, they lose the sense of belonging. And all humans crave belonging, right? If we look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, one of the big things is they need to feel belonging, and so we want to be able to allow them to keep that belonging. Because if you can reconcile it and get to the fact of oh well, if I make money, then maybe my family will start to learn how to make money, then they'll happily jump into the new box. Yeah, and so that's how we create a change in identity and it's almost like a realign to a higher self right exactly you're just moving.

Elizabeth: 1:05:44

You're moving up one of those spiral levels you mentioned with spiral dynamics me the other day yeah, I did talk about spiral dynamics, which is a system developed by don beck, but it actually is um, it's actually values levels that we want to talk about. So that's an older system that was developed by a person called claire graves, and the values level system is a great way of identifying where someone's at within a society, because societal norms create these differentiations in people based on where they fit in that system. Now, you have to be careful with any of these systems. Right, you've got things like values levels, you've got human design, you've got astrology, you've got gene keys. There's like so many different systems you could look at, and every single one of them is a box.

Darren Lee: 1:06:29

So that was. That's my issue with the personality types yeah, it puts you in a box.

Darren Lee: 1:06:35

So, like everyone kind of not everyone but people are like, oh, like asking me to do these tests, yeah, and then they're like but what do you? What do you do? And I'm like I know what I want, or I know what I'm looking to achieve, even in the short term, like from a business goal perspective. Respectfully, why the fuck would I spend two hours doing something like this to show to me that I should be resting when the sun goes down? It's like I finished this today. I'll go eat food, I'll go to the gym, I'll go to sauna, I'll come back, I'll go to the office and I'll just work. So it's like I do see a lot of value in it. I'm not saying I don't, but what I'm just trying to say is that if it's going to add some sort of semi-crutch, why is it important?

Elizabeth: 1:07:19

Yeah, so you're talking about epigenetics, right? Yeah, just like boxing off.

Darren Lee: 1:07:23

Yeah, it's just another box, right, if let's say what I was doing wasn't working, but what I'm doing for the most part kind of works. So like, what value does that bring me? In my current state, if I was a super lazy, I'm like what's wrong with me?

Elizabeth: 1:07:37

fair enough, absolutely none, you know so I'm like those boxes are super, super useful for coaches to make sense of, in order to identify some of the qualities of which box someone's in right but, they're never useful for self so.

Darren Lee: 1:07:51

So you would recommend me learning that stuff like the personality traits of, so I can self-identify, I can identify so that you can identify in your clients and use it to help.

Elizabeth: 1:08:01

Because if you identified what values level they were, for example, in order to create success they need to move to the next level. So if you knew the motivations that would get that particular value level to the next level, then you could utilize that as a coach yeah, and I can.

Darren Lee: 1:08:15

We went through this in the mastermind too, which is one of my coaches told me to chart out my clients yeah like ego insecurities, based on what I was, and that was a very high level, just a very, very quick map yeah so you're, you're suggesting, almost doing this from a perspective that you can kind of identify for your clients where they're currently at and what's holding them back so that you can give them the most effective motivation interesting, and that's kind of like when my wife is upset.

Darren Lee: 1:08:38

She always asks me to ask her do I want to help her with emotion, provide, uh, more emotional support, or does she want the logic? Yes, and she's yet to say that she wants the logic.

Elizabeth: 1:08:48

Women want the emotion, and that's a generalization. So the thing is is that if you classify a client, you have to be very mindful of your own awareness, right? So if you're a coach listening to this and you don't have a great sense of self-awareness, how would you know that you're not yet making a lot of money? Money, because in order to make a lot of money, you have to have a lot of self-awareness, right? If you have not a lot of self-awareness and you start putting judgments on your clients, it's highly likely that you're just projecting your own self onto them and you want to avoid that, right? So you want to be able to look at a client with no emotional connection and to be able to go okay, cool, they're exhibiting the behavior of this, this and this. Those behaviors exist within this system. Whichever system you happen to be using, what motivation will move them to the next system?

Elizabeth: 1:09:37

That's the only place where any of that stuff is useful.

Darren Lee: 1:09:40

When I was younger in my journey I would take these things super personally. So let's say I have a client who's super anxious and like very controlling or like second guessing or, you know, reviewing things a bit too much. It's very common in service-based business. I would over index on people pleasing because I would say that inherently there's like me. That's the problem. But as I've gotten a little bit older, if I'm, if I see something that objectively isn't wrong but someone is poking holes in it, I can kind of identify that as actually a problem with them internally.

Darren Lee: 1:10:10

Like they're just trying to. They're trying again to sabotage.

Elizabeth: 1:10:13

Yeah. So one of the biggest beliefs that I have is that perception is projection, right. So in other words, if something's in my awareness, then it's within me somewhere. However, it's never like I think. When you first start out it's quite direct and as you move further along it's more indirect.

Elizabeth: 1:10:29

So in the beginning, when I was like I come from a history of a 13 year abusive marriage with my ex-husband right, so at the time that I was being abused, it would have been really easy to just blame him and go he's a terrible person, right. And at the time, that's exactly what I did. When I managed to leave and gain more self-awareness and heal a lot of myself, I was able to look back and go. Actually, I sabotaged who I was all the time. I fawned, I was a people pleaser, I was weak, hopeless, and I actually allowed him to treat me like that. Right now, did that make his treatment of me justifiable? Absolutely not. But did it show me that I also played a part in that? Absolutely, and so I think you always have to look at how did I create this outside of yourself? So, like if you've got a client that's really egotistical, for example, it's like okay, well, cool. How did you create that?

Elizabeth: 1:11:32

You're actually allowed to have an ego because you're successful, right. So it's like, okay, cool. So this is actually a positive part of me that's showing up in them as a negative part, because a lot of people talk about letting go of ego. You can't let go of it until you've had one and you can't have one until you're successful. You've had one and you can't have one until you're successful, all right. So if we look at the true work of Sigmund Freud, who was the person that identified ego, we look at the ego and the id. Right, if you have no id right.

Elizabeth: 1:11:54

The identity, self-identity, so they call it the id. If you have no id, then you don't know who you are. If you have no ego, you don't know who you are with relation to what your environment, and so you have to develop an ego, try it on for size before you can get rid of it. And so a lot of people have this thing of you know oh, too much ego. But actually, like you have a natural ego, just like I do, of I am successful. Now we're not egotistical about it, but that ego exists, it's part of our external identity right and so when, if you're looking at someone, they've got a big ego.

Elizabeth: 1:12:31

You know that's part of your external identity. So if I was you, I'd be looking at their external identity and going well, what does that? How's that ego showing up in them? That external identity? Because it's in me, because I actually am good at what I do. It's in them as a pretense. So they're not yet good at what they do, but they have an ego. So where in my life am I pretending something? And it might be as simple as like for me. I'm pretending to understand spreadsheets. Right Now, if I'm pretending to understand spreadsheets, there's probably someone in my world who's pretending to have an ego, because it's the energetic concept of pretense rather than anything else. So if you've got someone in your world that's got ego, you have to then look at how are they behaving in their environment and go how are you doing that same behavior somewhere else in your life?

Darren Lee: 1:13:19

super interesting and I think it's how that kind of also manifests manifests. It blocks them. I wouldn't say limits, but I guess it is a limit, but it's blocking them from getting to the next level, whereas, as you've seen right, you know the people that you've met that are billionaires.

Darren Lee: 1:13:34

A lot of them will walk around and say that they work in marketing, right, they're just very chill that showed up because it's like the more success you have, the less of an ego you have, the more of a child, more of like a child's mentality, like a beginner's mind you have. Yeah, so even for myself, I feel like when I was earlier on my journey but making money, but not a lot of money, but making decent money I had a higher ego, and now I have none, which is why I'm sitting here just being like and what's that like? And you see me.

Darren Lee: 1:14:00

Yeah, ask you very stupid questions what's it, yeah, whereas before, when I was recording, like four years ago, I would almost pretend that I know. Yeah, and now I'm kind of at this point where we're just chilling in my house, yeah, and it's very flowy.

Elizabeth: 1:14:13

It's really great.

Darren Lee: 1:14:14

Because I have, like, literally nothing to prove.

Elizabeth: 1:14:17

Yeah, and I think that's the thing. And you've also learned how to learn like that. So yesterday I went for a drive up to a waterfall and the whole way I was at the driver what is this? Tell me about that. Tell me about that, tell me about that. And I remember when I was a kid I used to get in trouble for asking why all the time, because I'd be like, and why, and why, and why, and my mum would go. Enough of the why. I have a deep desire to learn like a child.

Elizabeth: 1:14:48

And I think you're the same. It's like what happens if I push that button. It's a curiosity right, and all growth starts with curiosity. How can you get so curious about your own life that it becomes exciting again?

Darren Lee: 1:15:00

Sahil Bloom puts that really well which is like the map.

Darren Lee: 1:15:02

You know, it's like the video game map and you're slowly going into the darker parts and he's been a huge influence of me. I've spent a lot of time at Sahel as well and it's like allowing yourself to be the beginner mindset I think, going back the reason why I laughed at the beginning when you said about your friend pulling you away when you started which is you get to this point whereby all those like beginner friends, they're just gone quite literally and then you're kind of in this new world whereby you're actually applauded for being a beginner. And I think this is when I advise people about content, I always reference the beginner versus the expert.

Elizabeth: 1:15:38

Yes, um, mindset so you never want to be an expert?

Darren Lee: 1:15:41

yes, so someone has been so someone like andrew huberman. He'll come out saying this is letter of the the law, the way that the data looks like, and that allows him to have well one, a lot of authority but a lot of criticism, Whereas someone like Chris Williamson will always be the student and, as a result, like women love him, guys want to be him, all this kind of stuff, and he put himself in that kind of position the most dangerous position to be in is someone who's not an expert who tries to play the expert, yeah, and then you get slaughtered.

Elizabeth: 1:16:11

And who would want to be an expert anyway? If you're an expert, like with the way that technology, information and data evolves at the moment, right, it's happening like every day there's something new and incredible being released.

Darren Lee: 1:16:22

There's no such thing as experts anymore and also the value of being an expert is almost zero. Yes, the value is in the nuance. If I can look at something objectively and be like exactly with the information that I know you shouldn't do it this way. Even though there's no book that says a lot, it's just a learned experience, yeah, with with, uh, data of the clients and so on, someone's like that's fucking interesting and that's literally how you approach your business and how I approach my business, where I'm like you can do loads of stuff. The last thing I ever asked for was integration, but I was like what I can help you guys with is this thing.

Elizabeth: 1:16:55

Yeah.

Darren Lee: 1:16:55

And in this way, yeah, and what I sometimes, I kind of say like stop thinking about it, just kind of get yourself into a scenario whereby you find a problem with a process that works and again, what's focal or causal, what happens it doesn't work yeah, problems happen versus like yeah, what do you think about?

Darren Lee: 1:17:20

like dumb, I got a dumb energy whereby you almost remove the the brain power of something and you do it like let let me give an example. Someone like Usain Bolt literally doesn't think about the thing. He was a 400 meter track runner, so he in Jamaica they ran not on track, but it was on sand, sand, dirt, and he was a 400 meter champion up until he was 19. And he just hated running 400 meter.

Darren Lee: 1:17:48

Because, to train for 400, you have to run 800. So he hated running, so he was going to quit or do something lazy, which was run 100. And then he just swapped and ran 100 meters. Now he never taught himself. Well, I only started at 19. He just did it and he literally has what I call dumb energy.

Elizabeth: 1:18:05

Also, he never, ever ran a 100 metre race, right. So this is something people forget. He never ran a 100 metre race. He always ran a 400. Yes, he just got to stop after 100. That was his whole approach. So, his whole mindset right. Like he was at the starting blocks, he was running for 400.

Darren Lee: 1:18:21

And he was trying to find a shortcut. He was going to quit One trying to find a shortcut. He was going to quit. Well, one of the one of the approaches was like he hated training for 400s. It's like the most brutal race of all time.

Darren Lee: 1:18:33

Actually, side tangent running, cause I ran track on a hundred meter track, so, um, at a pretty high level, that the 400 meter is actually more difficult than training for a marathon because you're sprinting 800 meters the entire time. So that's like the approach. So that to me, is like the ultimate definition of like. Bear in mind, it's jamaica, right, they didn't have tracking, they didn't have all at the heart centers and stuff as advanced as america, which is obviously their competitor.

Darren Lee: 1:18:57

They're obviously still super advanced, but it's just. It's just dumb energy, yeah. So I tried to apply that methodology, whether it's your business, whether it's sales, whether it's even your health. You don't need to track 500 different biomarkers every day. You could just go to the gym and just get on the treadmill.

Elizabeth: 1:19:13

You know what? I have a story of illness in my past, and after that I put on a lot of weight. So I was an Australian champion in multiple sports and so I started the same way individualistic sports, sports, right, and so a champion mindset. And then when I got sick, the door went out the window and then I used it as an excuse for a long time. Right, I was in a wheelchair for two years. I didn't walk for two years, you know, that's why I'm fat. And then I started trying to be the expert, because a background in nursing and medicine I know I know exactly how the body works I know what I need to do and I would be like I don't want to just a protein diet, because then I'm not going to get minerals.

Elizabeth: 1:19:51

I don't want to do, you know, a vegan diet, because then I'm not going to get protein.

Elizabeth: 1:19:56

I don't want it like and I just poked holes in every possible way to get well so true and then I just knuckled down and this is a fairly recent thing, so, beginning beginning of last year, I just went, I'm just going to walk, I'm just going to keep it simple and walk, and it's going to work. And then, at the beginning of June this year, I went okay. Now that I know that I can walk well and I can do it consistently, I'm now going to set a target with my walking it consistently. I'm now going to set a target with my walking. I went okay, cool, I'm going to do 10,000 steps a day, and it doesn't matter what day it is, it doesn't matter where it is. So, like today, I'm up to like 6,000 steps.

Elizabeth: 1:20:35

Now, right, and it's only the morning, because I got up at five 30 and, even though it was raining, I got on the roof of my building, which had like a rooftop balcony, and I just did laps right. In Bali there's dogs. They're a bit scary at the end of the road when they bark, and it's still dark. So I'm just like round and round the top of the building and it it becomes a meditation. Since the beginning of June, though, I've lost just under 10 kilos crazy right and I've done nothing like extreme.

Elizabeth: 1:21:05

I well, and I know from being an athlete that the more I exercise, the better my diet gets without trying. I just don't crave those old things anymore. And so I'm like, okay, cool, and that's simple, like we're only at the beginning of September and it's happened easily and effortlessly because I just decided to do the walk instead of poking a hole in some kind of diet or like, instead of following an expert. I said what to do the walk instead of poking a hole in some kind of diet or like, instead of following an expert? Yeah, I said what do I need to do?

Darren Lee: 1:21:31

basically, it's input, input versus output. I just need to do more output. Yeah, the analogy I always use, like in a business context, is if you're trying to lose weight, if you just stand on the scales every single day, you'll lose weight because you're like okay, well, I'll consciously not eat a donut, but I'll unconsciously just move more and do X. Y Z maybe change my room environment. And how I use this for business is if you look at your Stripe account. Every day you look at your bank account you look at your P&L if you keep looking at it, it will improve.

Darren Lee: 1:21:58

You'll find out. And it was funny because I can't go too confidential, but basically people in our business were looking at how to incentivize them more and I was looking at the concept of a profit share, not a revenue share. The concept of a profit share would mean that the individuals who are responsible for it, they will look at the expenses and be like why are we spending $4,000 on GHL, whereas if it was a revenue share, it's what's focal, it's causal big number, but profit is king. That it's what's focal is causal big number.

Darren Lee: 1:22:27

But you know, profit is more is the profit is king, so that work towards getting more revenue, yeah. So then they're like well, do we need to have, you know, a five thousand dollar a month office? It's like they just start thinking about that that thing. Yeah, that contributes to it, and I just kind of thought of this, but it's randomly and I think it's just kind of interesting, right, because obviously everything starts and finishes in the mind, so it's awesome. It's Tell me about some of the mechanisms you guys work with people. I think it was quite interesting when I found out you do like speaker training you do like sales training.

Elizabeth: 1:22:55

Yeah.

Darren Lee: 1:22:55

Like how the hell does that fit into NLP?

Elizabeth: 1:23:00

Well, so if we consider NLP as the language of success, right? So people are never successful just using one part of their body as a mind, body and spirit one system creates success. If NLP focuses on the mind, because of my background in nursing and medicine, I know how to focus on health. And then if we then look at the spirit, I actually came through the spirit realm. So I I started in a you know a long time ago doing things like aromatherapy, astrology, all those kind of woo-woo things that I used to do back when I was in an abusive marriage to try and work out how I energetically created this Right.

Elizabeth: 1:23:40

So I'd learned a lot about energetics and so I came through that and I was like, when I decided on NLP, I'm like, how do I make it better? It's not just like, okay, I'm going to do the old fashioned thing that everyone's doing. It's like, how do I make it better? So we infuse it with energetics, we infuse it with some somatics, we get the mind, body, spirit part happening and we create change. And now I've completely forgotten the question you asked.

Darren Lee: 1:24:04

How does that feed into teaching people how to speak and teaching people sales? Oh, yeah, yeah, right, so we're talking about the language of success.

Elizabeth: 1:24:11

So if you put someone up on a stage like public speaking is the world's biggest fear. If you ask people what they're scared of being put up on a stage, being put on the spot and having to talk in a business meeting or on a stage, right, it's one of the biggest fears in the world. And or on a stage, right, it's one of the biggest fears in the world. And so that comes from fear. There's a root cause to fear. That root cause to fear can be overcome with integrated NLP right. So it made sense for us to teach speaker training.

Elizabeth: 1:24:37

Not only that, I've spoken on massive stages all over the world, and so I have a personal level of awareness around speaking. I love stagecraft and energetics. So where you do certain things on a stage makes a difference to how the audience responds, and so we teach that. And we used to teach it as a standalone training and then we combined it with our sales training as well. So you come and do speak and sales training it's one training where you learn to speak well, you learn to sell yourself, you learn to sell from staging, you learn to sell from online, because all of that involves speaking, and so we went to there. Also, the two other people that run that speaker training, katie and Beck, who are in my team, they are both also speakers. So Katie, you know, grew up speaking in schools. Beck's actually currently in the US speaking on some big stages over there, and so we all have this passion for communication, and speaking is just another form of communication, just like sales is another form of communication.

Darren Lee: 1:25:37

So that's how we ended up there speaking is uh so interesting because if you think about going all the way back, I think about this very. That's why I brought it up is because for me you'll find this quite interesting but my speech she actually used to be quite bad. And when I moved to London, my manager very harsh woman, let's put it that way I gave a presentation and she was like you'll never go fair in your career because of your speech.

Darren Lee: 1:26:04

She at least said it to me, so I was kind of always forceful to change that. I've toned down my accent quite a lot. I bet you probably think it's still really bad, but it used to be a lot worse.

Elizabeth: 1:26:12

I think Australians are inherently terrible at accents. But your accent's actually beautiful, though I noticed that Yourself and Katie have very soft accents which is quite unique, Like some Australians some Irish actors are really bad, so Katie definitely has taught herself that.

Darren Lee: 1:26:27

That's what I mean. Yeah, the enunciation, and for me.

Elizabeth: 1:26:29

I just come from a posh English background.

Darren Lee: 1:26:35

But it's very soft. But basically, when I was kind of moving into the speaking world which was interesting because I felt I was going to get there a lot sooner than what I did, but then when I got there it was very fast that was actually quite interesting. I was kind of going back and reflecting as to why this is so important. And if you think about all the best speeches in the world, the best leaders, the kingdoms that were run, people how they influenced nations. Everything is communication, everything is communication.

Elizabeth: 1:27:03

And storytelling.

Darren Lee: 1:27:05

Storytelling conveying the message. The most famous speeches that you remember to this day were Churchill, mandela, whoever you know the name because of the person. Even Ali, like Muhammad Ali, was a speaker.

Elizabeth: 1:27:17

Yes, you know, most people thought he was an athlete. He wasn't, he was a speaker you know, and he was.

Darren Lee: 1:27:23

He became like a massive ambassador for the black community and it was just crazy because it all came back to his speech, yes, you know. And then even like modern day people, barack Obama right, yeah, people prefer Obama over Biden just because of how he speaks Yep, it's crazy, right. So that was a big thing for me, which was I need to go personally all in on speaking, which was a big part of 2025.

Darren Lee: 1:27:47

Yeah, um, and it's interesting because I actually speak better on stage than I do in podcasts, because in podcasts, I'm kind of like, kind of chilled out yeah um, but yeah, it's been such a huge power for me because what I learned was it doesn't matter how smart you are, it doesn't matter how talented you are, unless you can communicate it yeah, if you can't tell anyone what you do, you're never going to be successful and that's why it's funny, because when you speak on stage, you probably annihilate people who are 10 times more successful than you, and I definitely do like. I often speak in stages now with guys who sold companies for nine figures yeah but no one gives a shit about them.

Darren Lee: 1:28:21

Speaking like literally they actually are.

Elizabeth: 1:28:24

they have gained their credibility through what they did and they've not invested in themselves in speaking, and so they take tips from other people who have done what they did, and they're terrible tips. They need to take tips from speakers, not from people who are just successful.

Darren Lee: 1:28:44

And you know Christo. Yeah.

Darren Lee: 1:28:46

So Christo I know Christo personally, we've had a bunch of podcasts together are just successful. And you know, you know christo, yeah, so christo, like I know christo, like personally, we've had a bunch of podcasts together um, he's one of the best speakers in the business space, like you know, the kind of like online business space. Um, and his words, not mine, his business is actually not that big. It's quite small now, it's probably the same size as ours, yeah, um, but he is literally one of the most highly regarded speakers in the entrepreneurship space of like this kind of space.

Darren Lee: 1:29:10

Why? Because I know personally he invested years and hundreds of thousands of dollars into his speech.

Elizabeth: 1:29:16

Yes.

Darren Lee: 1:29:17

Into his speech and it's just so interesting to observe and I think it's a, it's something that everyone puts on the long finger, and it was just this year. I was like I have to sort this shit, I just gotta sort it out.

Elizabeth: 1:29:27

And, yeah, it's been a huge unlock my, my grandfather instilled this in me and this is a. This is a cool story. So when my grandfather was in the second world war, he ended up in england with his unit after a very, a very gruesome battle in indonesia, and finally that we're here, right.

Elizabeth: 1:29:47

So gruesome battle in Indonesia ended up back in England and was presented in front of the king. Now, the head of his unit had actually died in battle and so, whilst he wasn't the head of the unit, he was acting head of the unit, and so he created a speech for the king and stood in front of the king and delivered the king. And the king walked up to him and said that speech was brilliant, thank you, sir. And shook his hand. Now, when a king uses the word sir, it automatically knights someone. Yeah, and so my grandfather was knighted, even though he wasn't technically the head of that unit, and the king had been planning to knight the head of that unit, and the king had been planning to knight the head of that unit who'd done several different battles. My grandfather was only involved in one and he became knighted. And from that day, my grandfather recognized the value of speech, and ever since I was a little girl, he used to get us to read books out loud. That was where it started.

Elizabeth: 1:30:43

It was reading out loud at night, not reading in your head. You had to read out loud until you turned 12. Once you turned 12, then you could read in your head Um and having goosebumps yeah, having that confidence to read out loud to people stood me in really good stead when I became a speaker. Um, it also made me do things like I was in the debating team. I was in the mock trial team because I loved speaking, because he instilled this love of speaking in me and it's all mindset right like yeah, like I've never, not never, but now in particular I don't fear speaking because I changed my mindset around that.

Darren Lee: 1:31:24

It's like a privileged position to be in.

Elizabeth: 1:31:25

Absolutely, like even doing this podcast, how many hundreds of thousands, even millions of people are going to hear this? And there'll be one sentence that will change each of their lives, like there'll be, you know, for some people that will listen to the whole thing and it'll be like, oh, my goodness, give me all of that. I'm going to slowly implement all of it. And for other people, it's just going to be one sentence that we said, and it's probably not even the most impactful sentence we've said, and it will change their life. That's a huge responsibility and a huge honor to be able to communicate at that level.

Darren Lee: 1:31:57

And that's why I recommend even for you to be putting out so much content because, especially for men, you know it's different, for, like the women's circle that you run, women are. You know it's different, for, like the women's circle that you run women are much more expressive.

Darren Lee: 1:32:07

Yeah, but um, the amount of guys that will message me like, so, let's say, someone would listen. In 2020, three years later, they'll message me saying, hey, man, like I started that agency because I heard something with this. Now I'm now I've left my job. It's been two years of a journey. I went on this journey and now I'm out to other end just want to say thanks, and I don't get those often, but when I I meet people, it always happens or, like you know, it's not me, it's usually the guests. If I go to the gym five days a week, someone will stop me and just say hey, I listened to this podcast and it was a huge unlock.

Darren Lee: 1:32:36

They probably listened for the guests, right, but the questions were good or whatever, and I will never see those messages surface or someone recording a video about it.

Elizabeth: 1:32:44

They will implement something yeah, do with it, and it's kind of like we have this saying called wwld what would liz do?

Elizabeth: 1:32:52

and it's you know when people have consumed enough of my content by coming in one of our training rooms or whatever, wherever it is. Listen to the speeches I make and the podcasts that I do. When, when people have consumed enough, you get inside their brain. Right, and it'd be the same with you. It'd be a wwd. What would darren do? And it's like they. Then they start utilizing it as their, their litmus test, right, it's like, okay, cool, I know this person's good at that. What would they do? I know I've consumed enough of their speaking to know what they would do, because I mean this is an intimate like we're intimate here, having this conversation like it's an intimate conversation.

Elizabeth: 1:33:28

The fact that it's going out to hundreds of thousands of people doesn't change the intimacy of the conversation, and so they hear it on the same frequency and that's why the setting is super important the environment.

Darren Lee: 1:33:39

So there's a reason why we're not at a table yes, because the energy flows and we used to have these at an angle, but I got rid of it, so it's straight on. So the attention is straightforward. And why I'm always recording is because I have no phone. It's been a long time as it is and we're just straight. It's more relaxed.

Darren: 1:33:57

We're also in my house not a studio, which is much nicer.

Darren Lee: 1:33:59

Yeah, it's so much calmer. We were meant to start at started at half nine, we started at like 11. Like it's just there's different ways to to create like a subconscious effect with the environment, exactly that has a better output. For you to have better content, yeah, for you to have a better setup and we're finishing this note but how all this has kind of manifested in for me was that event that's coming up next week yes like, which is huge. Most people would have made anywhere between 15 to 50 million. That's on the headline.

Darren Lee: 1:34:30

Yes, and I'm on the headline. Yes, and I was also the second speaker.

Elizabeth: 1:34:34

Which is so great.

Darren Lee: 1:34:36

So I'm nowhere near there yet. But again, sometimes it's not about the outcome. Do you get me? They've seen some of the events and so on and I'm not like blowing up my own trumpet.

Elizabeth: 1:34:47

You should blow your own trumpet. You know, if you don't blow your own trumpet, no one else will. And the thing is, is that, like you are speaking with people who are like other people are envious of that. Like part of my team is thinking about coming back to that event to hear you, right, they're like it's cool that there's these other people we want to hear him and it's just.

Darren Lee: 1:35:12

It's just the fact that it doesn't always need to be like the big kind of outcomes, right, it's just like, um, I think, like for anyone who's like young, they can, and that's why I say over index on things and kind of people, please, on things that have a positive effect absolutely because one thing that I've really tried to focus on, especially with this domain or every domain is being super overly prepared.

Darren Lee: 1:35:31

So before you came, I spoke to a public public speaking coach and I was like let's just have a call 15, 20 minutes every day, just because I don't want to lose my focus for the next 10 days, or like seven days? Um, because there's a guy who's actually a football player, from where the town that I'm from in Ireland. You know Roy Keane. I do not. Roy Keane is like a very famous football player Right, he was very successful football player, but he's from my hometown.

Elizabeth: 1:35:54

Is that soccer? Yeah, okay.

Darren Lee: 1:35:55

And, uh, like his whole saying is like fail to prepare, prepare to fail. Sure, you know, and it's funny because that saying is really well known, but it's actually from a guy that's from Cork, in Ireland Would you believe he's in his 60s now or some shit, and that seems so like you know, just kind of high level, but it's been the embodiment of you, right.

Darren Lee: 1:36:19

That's how you have got to this point and that's why I was like how did you go so deep on NLP? Because there's just something there that's not in all the other shit.

Elizabeth: 1:36:28

I think that's the biggest thing. It's that I truly believe. It's the language that has allowed me to express everything else I've ever learned in my life, and so when someone comes and does integrated NLP with me, they're not just getting NLP.

Darren Lee: 1:36:43

Yes, that's why I speak all the other shit.

Elizabeth: 1:36:45

Yeah, and there's so much more than that, right, and and it's one of the reasons we sometimes struggle to articulate what we do, because it depends on the people in the room. Like there is not.

Elizabeth: 1:36:56

It's not a training where we produce this training and then the next time we do it and the next time we do it and the next time we do it. It's different every single time, and we basically do a lot of um questioning of our audience, like you know, asking them what they want, where they're at, finding out what's going on for them in their life, and then we change the training accordingly the basic principles are the same. However, the delivery is completely different every time makes sense.

Elizabeth: 1:37:18

Yeah well, let's want to say a massive thank you you've been I'm so happy you came into my world, genuinely I want to say I'm so happy that I followed the thread when I found out about you.

Darren Lee: 1:37:28

But likewise, you know. So I want to say like genuinely, like I really, really appreciate everything and I feel like we just have like a long career together, beyond whatever working together as well.

Elizabeth: 1:37:36

I totally believe that this is, that this is the beginning of something incredible, yeah.

Darren Lee: 1:37:40

And what I really like is like professional, but then it's also personal and that's why I was like I had no matter how tired I was at the weekend. I was like, just come to my house on tuesday and we'll figure something out and we'll just chill before you obviously head home you know, yeah, so great.

Elizabeth: 1:37:54

Thank you so much. Thank you so much.