Kickoff Sessions

#326 Tom Spark - The Hard Lessons From Running The Largest Mastermind in Bali

• Darren Lee • Episode 326

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00:00 Hosting the Biggest Mastermind in Bali
01:27 The 3 I’s: Imitation, Infrastructure, Implementation
03:13 Choosing the Right Clients & Setting Boundaries
06:45 Bad Coaching Experiences & Why Care Matters
10:16 How to Scale Care (Without Burning Out)
11:00 Results Over Mechanisms: Scaling Apex & Aura
14:22 Finding Your “Thing” & Building Around Your Strengths
16:28 Team, Leadership & Culture as the Real USP
24:20 Why Young Entrepreneurs Should Develop Skills First
27:40 Life Experience, Mentorship & Personal Growth
30:22 Content That Lowers Cognitive Load & Raises Curiosity
35:48 Why More Work Isn’t Real Scaling
37:20 Do the Unscalable to Scale
41:20 Building an AI Companion With Philosophy
44:33 Integration vs Information: The Real Power of the Mastermind
46:29 Live Offer Execution & Closing in the Room
51:21 Sales, Leadership & Clear Next Steps
53:32 Why Female Entrepreneurs Often Outperform
55:31 Mentorship vs Consulting vs Coaching
56:57 Ego, Bias to Action & “Dumbass Energy”

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Largest Bali Mastermind, Intimacy Wins

Darren

We just hosted the largest Mastermind of Bali, which is pretty sick to do. And I think one big reflection for me is yes, it was the largest event, and yes, we rented out to Ritz Carlton, and yes, it cost me an arm and a leg. Cost almost a hundred thousand dollars in total, which is crazy. But I love how if you're intentional with your actions, you can make things incredibly intimate. The biggest feedback that I that was really stark for me was people felt seen and heard, and that you can maintain intimacy in events, just like in your coaching program, if you prioritize for it. I think for me, the biggest thing was if I look at all of our competitors in the space, they don't actually care about getting results of people, and they also don't really give a shit about the person. And it was something that came up for people too quite a lot, which I think is uh a great place to start today.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, I think it's like we care about results, but also we care we are inviting people into them doing well for themselves. It's like, yes, we care to a certain degree, like a lot, but also we're doing well, you want to do well, and it's like this just movement of like, you know, we were there was people in between the lunch breaks, like, okay, I'm gonna do this now, taking action on things, like signing clients in the evening, and it's it's it's just inviting people into an into a a way of being, uh like uh, hey, this is what we're doing, you're coming along, and yeah, it's about caring about results, but it's also like having something that genuinely works and bringing people, you know, bringing people into it as well.

Darren

Yeah, and I think this is interesting, right? Because it was an observation made by you is is your clients are adults and they have their own brain and their brain works and they can make their own assumptions and their own ideas. And I think we it's often easy in coaching or consulting, especially where we're going in our in our business now, that's more of a consulting capacity that you overwork with people, you over-emphasize how you should do things. Yeah. Whereas what you've pointed out very clearly, which was a very great idea, is that look, you give people the tools, you give people the ingredients, you give them the menu, and then they can cook you the best dinner of all time.

Results, Adults, And The Three I’s

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it's the three eyes that we've spoken about before. It's you give people the the the most impact you have on someone is by allowing them to emulate what they like and what they don't like. No one's gonna be like a clone of you or a clone of me. However, there's certain aspects of your character that they can emulate to pick up certain results. So the biggest impact you ever have on anyone is always going to be through imitation, which is when you're a kid, it's 85% of your learning. You learn through imitation. Then when you're an adult, 55% of your learning happens through imitation. So the biggest uh impact that they have is proximity. So the mastermind is a real good example of that. They have uh close proximity, they see how someone operates, and then they absorb that via osmosis. And then the other points around it are the other two eyes. So you have imitation, um, but then you also have like the infrastructure we preside, uh, the infrastructure uh we provide for them, which is things they can lean on, resources, etc. And then actual some form of implementation done with you, coaching. Um, that's what actually kind of like drives results. And yeah, it's like people we're we're respond the most we are most responsible for showing up as we say we are. That is the most impact we can have, is being in full integrity, alignment, whatever you want to call it, because people learn the most through proximity.

Darren

Yeah, I think that's something with the really double tap on. There's one thing that I want to definitely touch on as well is something that's been really etched in my mind is when you said that if the happiest moment you feel with a client experience is when they pay you, you're already in you're in a tough position at that point.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's probably not the right client, yeah.

Darren

And I think if I look at our experience with our clients, uh-huh, we have a great time, especially in Apex. I feel like these people are like my close comrades, right? And I feel like we're kind of in the weeds together. And I even told a story earlier how to someone in Incubator who I went into today as a health coach, and I said, Hey, could you help me? And I love that network that you build, and I think that's something that's been very personal to me as well, which is why you go on a personal journey with your clients. Of course, it's professional, but it's also personal. I'd love to get your thoughts on like what made you, I don't know, where did that come from for you?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's the idea that the top like 20% of your clients they're getting like 80% of the results, and then it's the opposite as well. It's the bottom 20% of your clients are taking up 80% of your time. And if we want to actually, you know, uh help people and impact them in a certain way, we have to be ruthless with our boundaries. Like time, the the the fact of the matter is that time is valuable now, also energy is valuable, and you know, I've I've had in the past calls where it's been a real drag, and it's been like, oh, my energy is sat for today for the for today, and I can't show up as well for other clients now. And it's like, okay, well, do we want to optimize for more of that or more of something else? Then we have other clients who jump on a call. I'll give a good example is I won't say a name, but they they're they paid in full with this client, they paid in full, um, and they jumped on a call. They needed 20 minutes of my time. They had one question and they were like, Oh, I feel energized. This is amazing. I'll go in action on it. And then they went and had their biggest month. And it's just there's that level of client who, you know, you know, they're they're sovereign, they're responsible, they value your time. And then there's the the other level of client as well. And if I have an honest reflection, probably the best part of the relationship with some of those other clients has been when they paid. And it's like, how do we optimize for less of that? Because that that's not what enables us to show up in our best way long term. And you have to it's it's ruthless because you're you are essentially turning down um money as well.

Darren

And I think I had this I had a discussion with a client this morning with this, which we referenced before, which was you know, you don't need to be an A-star client to be a good client. And what I mean by this is it's not about just getting to 100k a month. Yeah, yes, of course, like that's my or my goal instead of Apex is get people to 100k a month and then to get them to a million a month, right? But if you don't get to that goal, it doesn't mean that I think that you're a bad client. I only think that you're a bad client is if you blame me or the universe for your lack of results. Let me give an example. You can be not a rock star client, but you can show up in an integral way, integ and have integrity and get shit done and work hard, and then we collaboratively work on things, and it's almost like a it's like a Lego, right? I think there's nothing wrong with that. And I have clients like that, they're struggling, they're not always being a top winner. That's okay. The only issue, and this isn't an issue that we have, is this that if someone starts to do the blame game, right? And I think this is where you said about all that we can do is show up as integral as possible, whether it's inside of our consulting business, whether it's inside of our events, we show up and we we bring, we bring the action.

Boundaries, Client Fit, And Energy

SPEAKER_00

Well, we're responsible for delivering on what we said we were going to deliver, and everything outside of that is someone else's business. So one of the great insights you might get from a coaching program is that you realize that the whole thing is not for you, and actually you should spend more time with your cats. Like that might be an insight you get, and you're like, actually, that is the best possible thing for me right now. Thank but that's you know, I've signed up for coaching programs in the past where I where the most valuable lesson I've learned from them is realizing, oh, that's not how I want to do it. I remember I've signed up for something, but it was still worth the price of entry. I didn't get this. Can you give an example? Yeah, so I remember I remember there was one particular coaching program. I think I paid 8k for it. This was maybe four, three, four years ago now. And it was as I was kind of somewhat green into the space, and basically it that was the most like I felt like I was buying into a Ponzi scheme. Because it felt like they were then, once I had signed as a client, they were kind of uh opening me up to their method of it wasn't even persuasion, it was just kind of like it was this, it was more like, hey, I've got this thing, and if you pay, I'll tell you how to do this thing, and then they told you how to do the thing, and it's like the thing was just kind of saying that I'm gonna tell you how to do a thing. Like, you know what I mean? I was like, well, hang on, where's the thing? Well, like, what is the thing? And it's just it was That's why people say info is error. Yeah, it's air, it's just basically like, hey, if you pay me, I'll tell you like how and it really felt like that. Yeah, there were some good things, tangible things I probably took from it, but I was like, Oh, like how have I been duped by that? And also that feeling that I feel now of just kind of a little bit silly, also not taken care of, a little bit taken advantage of, and not cared for. I was like, okay, well, now I know that I I know what that feels like, so that's a beautiful lesson for me because I'm like, okay, well, I definitely don't want anyone who is associated with me in any capacity to end up feeling that. So that becomes like, okay, so that was worth the price of entry for me because I'm like, that has uh uh enabled me to understand like what hill I'm gonna die on or where my values are inside of like operating. So that that's an example.

Darren

Those bad experiences are a great litmus test of how you don't want to live your life and then whether you even if you find yourself tethering into that world, it can pull yourself out. So and this is good, like this segment can be the worst coaching experiences we've had. I bought a program before which is meant to help me like place our get setters and sales reps and stuff. And the whole logic was you're meant to get info, build a sales team, and then roll it out. And I got like I basically got none of that. Like I had the info, I ripped the info, and then I learned the stuff, but then what I actually needed was like actual consulting on what I was meant to do, and it wasn't provided. And I think it's good to and I was AK as well, it's good to look at those experiences and think, okay, how do I not want to build my life? Yeah, and I think that's why I'm really, really fixated on the word care. I think I even spoke to one of my one of the guys in my network the other day, and I was like, look, man, like at the end of the day, we just care more than other people, and I think it's important because as I said, like results literally do vary, right? It's like the disclaimer, you know, it's like results may uh may deviate from this, which is okay, like that's that's fine, but it's like how much have you committed to being responsible to doing that? Now I'm not saying that you gotta do you gotta be a hundred percent all over everything, yeah, but I'm saying because you do have need the human to go and do shit, but are you there in tough times? That's a question you gotta ask yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it's also again logistically, how how do you set up the infrastructure to care? Because like you might have good intentions, but also you have a life as well and things happen. So it's how can we set up infrastructure in a way that you can scale care? And that's really yeah, it's like scaling care is the most important thing. And at that when if you if if the goal of the business is to like make an impact, like money is a wonderful side product of like making a huge impact, but to have a huge impact, you must have and like this is the thing as well. I I never want this to sound like super altruistic and it's like just care so much. It's like, yes, but it's it that's that's the that's the only way you can do this, is like you have to be able to scale care, you know, with people, which is why you bring on new team members, or you have certain tools, etc.

Bad Coaching Programs As Teachers

Darren

Let's let's let's look at that, right? The idea is how do you scale care? So when I look at our high-end program Apex, which is for people who are serious, and when they come in, I always ask the same question: Do you want to do this? And if you want to do this, let's fucking go. And then how we help you get there is it started with basically just me, and we had like 10 clients that were high-end clients, and then it went to like 20, and then you were coming into support, and then it went to like 30, and then you were coming in to really own half of it, and then we also pulled in like PUCH, uh, operations, tier in sales, magno, content. Why? Why do we do that? It's my fundamental belief that no one gives a fuck how you got the result as long as you got the result. If I told you if you lick this window and I'll get you 100k a month, somebody, somebody is gonna lick the window because the mechanism is truly fucking irrelevant. It's a way you might have a preference, okay? But at the end of the day, if I get you to that result, no one gives a fuck. That's the reason why the pill works so well, because the pill is something you consume and immediately it enters your bloodstream. So, what is that pill equivalent in the world of consulting? It's not immediate for sure. And then, of course, you want to have the personal touch points, of course, but fundamentally, if you can get them in the elevator into the result, that's the core that like that is the litmus test. I think if I reflect on the mastermind, I kind of I say this almost more times than I need to, but then I always worry that I don't say it enough, which is however I describe to help you build your coaching business, it means the result is inevitable. So if I tell you you gotta do a group model and you needed a CSM and all this stuff, it's still inferred that you're getting the exact same result. Because I think that's the beautiful part about like uh when you when you when you scale is that it challenges you to be able to scale your IP into other people, distribute, redistribute because even you're the perfect example, your IP you disseminated into the AI companion, and even when you were doing it, you were like, trust me, trust me, trust me, and I obvious obviously always trust you, and then it worked because at the end of the day, did anyone give a shit that it was you in their bedroom at night talking to them, or was it AI companion?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think they would have cared if it was me in their bedroom at night, to be honest.

Darren

They would have been like, Why is this guy in my bed at doing it?

SPEAKER_00

And why am I telling him these things?

Darren

Yeah, but it's a it's a it's an interesting litmus test, right? It's a theory, yeah. The theory is can you get the result without having to do anything?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, uh one of the things I would probably say here as well is that like the way you do it is kind of a representation of your values. Like I know we use the example of licking a window, but if if you if licking windows was all it took to make a hundred K, then I'm just I'm up for it because it's quite easy. But I think the the the the model is a representation of your values as well. Like you have to choose something that uh that the because you won't do it. That's the other thing, is like humans are humans if you know because there's a hundred thousand ways to make a hundred K a month, but like some of them involve like you know, robbery, and you you know, there's a you know what I mean? So you have to have choose like a model that feels good and works for your values. Um can I just add to that as well?

Darren

So I spoke to Iman last week about this, and he was like kind of like, you know, well, what is it that what you do is different? And speaking just anecdotally for myself, it's I would believe my strengths are helping people build a first-time sales team. And he was like, bro, like I I'd never want to do that. And I goes, Yeah, man, like I'm not asking you to do it because I'm doing it, and then it was that was the thing. He was like, if that's your thing, that's your thing, but it's good that you have a thing. If you look at someone like Dan Henry, his thing are like webinars, he's like anti-sales team. But the biggest thing is that he stands for something and then he goes to get the result in that way. If you compare me to Dan Henry, who's you know wildly more successful than I am, and we're gonna meet him at the weekend. What Dan does very well is he plays into his weaknesses well. His weaknesses are he's like ADHD or something like that, and he doesn't he doesn't have great like attention, so he doesn't want to have like a business, he wants to run a webinar and then go on vacation with his boy and his and his wife, and that's great, man. That's fantastic, and then that he attracts people who want to do something similar to that. I think that's quite interesting, right? And that that was my conversation with him on was I do like Celsius, and I do like helping people scale their business, and I do like the culture of it and the team component of it. Um, so I think that was just an interesting you know reflection that I've had over the past couple of weeks as well.

SPEAKER_00

You've got to understand yourself and you've got to understand how you work because otherwise you you can't for some some people like they have like a two weeks of inspiration, they can get so much done and then they just they turn off. So they need infrastructure or to add things into their model that allow it to continue when there's less energy as well. You have to you have to like know yourself first because if you're gonna be the main bottleneck in the business, you need to know how you're gonna interact with it. That's why I say like the model or how you set things up, team members. It's like yes, there's what can work, but also it's who who is like that. Who do you need to who's a good balance for you to fill certain holes that depending on how you work? And I think that's that's an important kind of distinction there.

Scaling Care With Team And Systems

Darren

I think that's why we work really well, right? Uh-huh. Is because I I always say it like you know, I like that you need time for yourself because you know how to shop the best when you're working, and I I like more of a continuous just kind of hum. Yeah. So that I feel like and that stabilizes me more. Does that make sense? Yeah. I spoke to Jordan about this yesterday on his podcast, which is like I'm inherently anxious or I have anxious tendencies, and the best way to quell anxiety is with action. So I know I can quell my anxious thoughts by just doing the fucking work. Whereas it and it just depends on again, it's it's know thyself, and then build around that. And I think what's funny is like we all we talk about like scaling and then in coaching programs and all this kind of stuff, but one thing that was really apparent to me at the weekend, which really stood out, was team, right? And our team and how we value our team and what we want to do with our team and how we want to help people. And I think that's very personal to me because if we go back to leaning the strengths, I always say that I'm inherently unskilled. There's no like skill that I actually specific skill that I have that I was younger that was really good at. It wasn't like copywriting, it wasn't even like speaking, it wasn't even like sales, it was nothing that I was inherently good at. And what that meant was I always needed support, which was totally fine. So I was always really good at like pulling resources, like pulling in resources, like ooh, like he's good at this, and he's good at this, and he's good at this. And that's my strength. And I think that was very that's reflective in our team. And as I was said over the weekend several times, is if you see any part of success of Oix, you can almost be guaranteed that it's not actually down to me. You can almost be guaranteed that there's some guy that's editing videos in the background, some guys that are uploading consistently, there's some guys that are running the ads and stuff, and I think that is why we it works so well because again, back to like energy type or or or whatever you want to look at. It's for me, that's not the best way to get my best results for people. And it was funny because day three of the mastermind um was all about team, and I know I set that aside beforehand. I had a big section that was on team and leadership and culture, which I'd love to discuss as well today. But it was ironic, not ironic, it was serendipity because everyone over the weekend were like, Hey, your team are dialed, they're committed, they're focused. All of you guys that work with me and you, they love it, they're part of a journey, they're part of a they're part of a mission, they're part of a brotherhood or sisterhood, however you want to describe it. Lots of females, lots of females in the team. But I think the best way to show is to lead, and then on reflection, that was a big that's I I believe that's our USP.

SPEAKER_00

It's an amazing team. Yeah, I I I wouldn't disagree at all as well. But what do you think comes down to talk about maybe some of the points you brought up on culture? What's some of your thoughts around that? Yeah, for sure.

Pill Versus Path: Values In Models

Darren

So you have to do it for yourself before you do it for anybody else. There's no world where you can get someone to do something that you're not willing to do yourself, or you're not willing to at least try in the beginning. So I've edited the thumbnails, I've edited videos, I've written the copy, I've run the post, I've created the podcast, I've run the sales calls, I've built the coaching programs myself. I've even in aura, I have a background in engineering, like I know how like code and systematic code works to a level to be able to speak to my engineers and really understand it. And obviously, I know UX and UI, I would say very well. And that's really important because when I'm asking someone to do something, they're like, okay, because they're one, they don't feel like undervalued, they know that I can appreciate the value of the work, and then they can see the massive contribution to it. So that's first and foremost. Then you do need to like cut your teeth and set a good example for people. And I feel like genuinely in this like online business world and so on, that people have forgotten about the team and they've forgotten about culture and they've forgotten about how people want to be part of something and you want to bring them up. And I told the story of Magno, and I'll tell it again, right? Young guy based in Brazil, 17 years old. I could have called him an editor. I didn't call him a fucking editor. I said he was someone that works with me with my content. And then I could have always e-freaked me and said, Oh, he's just an editor, he's just based in Brazil, who cares, whatever. And I could have like, oh, I'll bring down his I'll bring down his cost, I'll pay him per clip, all this kind of shit. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then as time went on, we were even not even working that closely together. This thing, we might not even speak. There was times where me and Magna wouldn't speak for like two months because he was just editing. And then as the business developed, he showed his characteristics, his skills, he saw where we're going, he took on that energy, and he was like, Yeah, like I like this, I love this. And I'm not saying that he has to fucking love me, but at least he saw like the vision. And then when the opportunity came up to come in as a creative director, I remember sitting here being like, hey man, like I need someone like this, and he's like, Let's go. And then after three or four years, this guy has developed more than most people develop in a in a decade. And what better lesson is there for your clients than to do this stuff for yourself? Even our relationship, right? Even when we when we met in the beginning, we were both retarded, and still to this day, we're both very retarded, but we were both able to develop personally, and then that personal development is reflected in the business. So the outcome that you want in your business is develop is based on the amount of personal development that you have. And I'm like I'm not doubling down on that, I'm quadrupling down on that for the year. And like, yes, I can invest in coaching for the team, which I think to be honest, like, yeah, it depends on the person, depends on where it is, but that has like a marginal increase. I mean, the biggest thing is just dropping someone a message at 4 p.m. on a Saturday and just being like, How you doing, bro? And then they just think, okay, like this person actually fucking cares about me, and they're they're there behind me, and then it's like the results come in, the winning comes in. Um and not all incentives need to be financial incentives, and of course people get paid and they're gonna get paid well, but that to me is like a very, very, very personal uh topic, because then that's reflected in where we're going, you know, and it's a thing that I learned from Amon, which is like I don't know where we're gonna be in five years, but I want to be there together, and I think when we look at like where we're going for the next five years as we move towards like a like a nine-figure company is the goal, we need the right people in the right seats, you know, and that's that's what I'm it's my most important facet. So if you're listening to this and you feel like, oh, like I haven't found my Tom, well, it's okay because through having the right values and the right integrity, you'll find them, you know. Tiernin came into our world as of last year, he could not being be cut from the same club more, right? He understands the game, he loves what we're doing, there's a lot of great pride money does, and he gets paid a ton of fucking money in the process. Does that make sense? And the last point I'll say on this is like not everyone wants to be the entrepreneur, and I'd also say not everyone wants to ha deal with the with the with the problems, right? Like, I've I have problems all day, every day. All day, every day. There's there's something wrong. Now I don't reflect on that and I don't I don't lean into it, and I'm careful with my linguistic and my language around it. But if there if I was to look for a problem, there's gonna be a problem. There's a lot to be said for being an entrepreneur. There's a lot to be said for having the a roof over your head, uh, the right amount of money coming into your bank account, and having the mobility and flexibility to do whatever the fuck you want in business. And I think for a lot of people that are young, I would actually go against, which is ironic, building a business straight away. I would come work for someone like us.

SPEAKER_03

Develop skills, yeah.

Darren

100%. If you don't know anything, like, dude, I I think I'm I don't think I thought this on a podcast, so hopefully this is valuable, right? Just trying to like try to get people to think about like what is the value that you can actually bring the universe. Like, if you look at like what you can actually add to the universe, and the best example was when I was nine, I was like 21 years old, I came back from London, I got chewed out of like some financial bullshit company, and I was like, right, I want to work in a startup space. I tried to build two businesses at a time, and it was still bullshit. And I remember I found a startup in this town where I'm from, and I walked in the door and I said to the guy, I'll work for free. And he said, You're absolutely cracked. I'll give you 2,000 euro a month, and I worked there nine to five, Monday to Friday, and I went to college at night, and I worked, I was in college from five till ten, and I was at the gym from 10 till 11 every single night for nine months straight. And I think about that energy, and what did I learn in there? Well, I learned product, which became pretty fucking applicable these days, 10 years later. Um, I learned people, I learned culture. There was eight of us in the office. We used to go for points on a Friday, which I wouldn't really engage in too much, and we'd always go for like a dinner on a Thursday afternoon. And I remember like those guys, like there were some Spanish engineers, some Brazilian engineers, and those guys were great, right? And they had a great ethos, great culture, and it really displayed a lot of values that I had learned and I I utilize right now. And I think in that moment at that age, I didn't really realize the value of it, and now looking back at it, you know, even only connected dots backwards, is what I'm trying to say.

Know Thyself: Energy, Anxiety, Rhythm

SPEAKER_00

It's the interesting thing. I think in there's a lot of young entrepreneurs, even here in Bali, or you see them in Dubai, they're they've like 17 and they're doing like 100k a month, and I'm like, wow. However, don't worry about the distance because there's always a deficit. So, you know, I've met people who they're making a load of money, but their personal hygiene's not in order. Not in a bow, it's just they haven't had exposure to a workplace of getting up at you know, there's we always shit on like a nine to five and all this. It's like there are certain skills and things you learn from whatever season in your life that you bring forward that you just take for granted now. Like for me, being able to wake up at the same time every single day and drag yourself to do something, you know, like the amount of what that kind of actually built within me and made you realize like, oh, you're able to do that. And then, you know, also like you need to be clean, you know, you need to be sharp, you're gonna need to be professional. What does that look like? All of these interpersonal skills. Okay, is it is it directly applicable? No, but it's all it's it's all skills, and you know, there's a lot of these young guys coming up, they don't know how to talk to girls. They they all just sit there and like on the yachts, very well done. Like, and this isn't like a diss at all, but this is a genuine me like noticing. It's like, yeah, you you've you've locked yourself in front of a laptop and it worked, and now there's the other side of life which is gonna open up to you. And I so these things swing, you know, and um, yeah, I I think there's there's good news for anyone who's in the uh yeah personal development space, coaching, and there there's gonna be plenty of young entrepreneurs you can charge a lot of money to help them with their uh some basic things. It's because they didn't get exposure, they didn't get exposed, like you said, your work culture. There's something to be said for that. There's something to be said, even if it just being part of a team. I used to find it in school as well. We you know it kind of sucked and didn't really like what we're doing, but at least you were doing it together, you know.

Culture, Leadership, And Growing People

Darren

Yeah, and he looked those life experiences are super important, right? This is where you know the best sales reps have all gone through a heartache, right? Someone broke up with them, someone did something to them, they build some EQ that's much more valuable than reading a book from Daniel Goldman on emotional intelligence. Like, I've deliberately not read that book because I'm like, let me just go out to the real world and develop some emotional intelligence, right? And it's an important value. Funnily enough, that was the first book that was ever given to us in university. But it's like, where do I want to get my experiences from? And that's where learned experiences are the most important. So that's really important, and especially, I don't know, if we look back on like the quote unquote success of our business, I say a large proportion of it is because I'm married. Like for me, as like my side of the business, what I do is that if I wasn't married, God help me, bro. Like, I think my life would be fucking terrible, you know. I think I would have pissed away a lot of my 20s, I think I would have spent most of my money on God knows what, and you'd just fall into the vices, right? And I think I know that because I used to do that, but I was poor back then, so it's like you give the wrong man the wrong tool at the wrong time, and it will kill him, quite literally. Same with your business. Give the person the wrong tool at the wrong time, it will kill them. And I called one of our clients yesterday, it's part of his renewal, and he said to me like very bluntly, he was like, you know, a part of me thinks that I can go and do this myself, and I was like, and but he said, I also recognize that I've never been to where you've been and what that means at that point. And I was like, dude, you don't even realize again, because you've never been there, what that will look like when you're making half a million a month and things are breaking left, right, and center, and yeah, like that's a thing, and you have to understand that, and that's why you pay for mentors and so on. But I think it's just an interesting observation to think, where am I personally? What have I achieved? Where are my gaps and what am I open to? So me and you were heading to mastermind this weekend, and we said it yesterday, I think it was two days ago, he said it's gonna be exciting to sit in a crowd and actually have be on the receiving side of information, you know. So that exposure to it's mainly eight-figure entrepreneurs um will be amazing. And I'm excited to meet like the founder of Loom, sold Loom for like 2009 million or something like that. Um was it Loom? Yeah, it was Loom, Atlassian. So it's all about where you're getting your data from. Where does that data come from from how does it articulate? So the question for you is like how how reflecting on the weekend, what was the biggest unlock that you observed yourself? Or biggest shift.

SPEAKER_00

I think there's a few ways you can go here. We can go tactical shifts that people had. I think the biggest shift that I noticed with working with people the the one line that really seemed to hit, and this was around content, and in general as well. I think you know, this this online business space and the info space exists because there's so much information, there's so much to learn, there's so much to do, there's so much to process, and then it becomes you know, so multifaceted. And I think one of the core ways we were looking at content was how can you optimize content for low cognitive processing, uh that but still increases curiosity and calls people into a new identity or points towards a new identity. If you can do that within copy or within content, low cognitive processing, increase curiosity and cool people into a new way, a new identity, or point towards it, you've got a really, really sophisticated bit of content. And it's it's interesting because I think there's a lot of mature entrepreneurs in that room, and it's that whole it's that chart where it's like there's the dumb person, and then there's the person in the middle who's like thinking this, that, that, that, and then it's the other side, and the the dumb person and the like Jedi person think the same thing. And I think that was a a real sort of but it takes mastery to be able to, it takes maturity to be able to simplify everything you're doing, make it really tightly consumable, and increase a little bit of curiosity. It takes a lot of work and it's it's delicate, it's an art form. So that was something that I saw a lot of people take away and looking at their content on the weekend and be like, ah, okay, I can see where you're implementing some of these things.

Darren

I'd love to get some feedback on on you on your content right now. So your content's been smashing it. Yeah. Is it con is it the content or is it the mountain in the back?

SPEAKER_00

It's it's both. So it's the if you so there's it a lot of it is you know, it's more calculated than just um but it's because I've had exposure to the game for a while and we teach this right. So the if I'm talking about a more spiritual concept, I'm in a podcast studio. If I'm talking about a more tactical business concept, I'm in front of a mountain. So it's like I flipped it. So it's like you're not getting what you expect. You don't who wants to listen to the person in front of a mountain talking about how you know whatever. How so I've I've like flipped it like that just to kind of subvert expectations a little bit there. So that was something. But the real thing that I it's very simple. It's again, it's keeping it simple and digestible and consumable, um, making myself easily digestible, adding a little bit of authority. So whenever someone views a bit of content, they have three questions who is this person? How can they help me, and why should I trust them? So if you can communicate that within the first five seconds, you've probably got a good bit of content if it's a way that they would like to be helped. So that's one of the thoughts going into it as well. But then it's also it's it's being disciplined with um does it fit into one of my three big idea buckets of what I want to be known for? So it's like kind of AI, philosophy, and then frameworks for entrepreneurs. That's kind of where I like that the that's like the general things I talk about. And then it's also the three yeses, it's the pathos, ethos logos. Is this going to be relatable in some way? Is this going to show logically that I know what I'm talking about, or is this gonna also show like my values? And you can do some of that subconsciously through the environment, etc., and also how you're showing up. But then the final part there is okay, does it do that? The final part is like, does it take some courage to say? Because I I described this at the weekend for people. There's an whatever your market is, whatever your niche is, there's an undercurrent hum of the same thing that everyone's saying. There it is. Beige. It's beige. So you're you're you can either add to that hum, you can say the same things, and it's still valid, but it's just adding to the hum. So it's but the the for me, the interesting thing to do is how do you you understand that that's where the general conversation is. How do you pluck from that and take them somewhere else? So, for example, one of the bits of content that did well, for some reason, people online, uh everyone at the moment is saying value content is dead. And like, I see that, and I'm like, what the hell do you mean? Like you be and then people are like, you need to put your audience on a value fast. Like I'm like, this is just so gimmicky book according to who, right?

Darren

And based on what? And like, but the based on released who released this report, you know what I mean?

Career Paths, Apprenticeship, And Grit

SPEAKER_00

But it's basically they're like, it's oh, it's because Chat GPT is out there now, and then they can get the value, and it's like, what do you mean? Like all all content is value content. Otherwise, like, even if it's funny, like that's valuable. Like, what do you want about it's under the entertainment bucket? But this is the thing, most people online will just follow, they'll hear that and they're like, Oh, I need to like dance like this now, okay, and then they hear something else. So, one of the bit so I noticed that that like all of these somewhat you know established creators were like, Oh, yeah, they need to stop making value content. I was just like, that's bullshit. So I was like, So I start the bit of content with value content is dead. Don't use this anymore. Do this, dance like and I like I'm being sarcastic, and then I bring my different point of view. So I think one of the things that I used to do before is I used to go, and content wouldn't hit. It's like I have this way off idea over here that is valuable to like five people, and people are like, what the hell is he speaking about? So for me, there's a conscious effort now of understanding what the undercurrent meeting people where they're they're at, the undercurrent like hum of our niche, using that and bouncing off of it to take people somewhere else. Because that's when people then feel like, Oh, I never thought about it that way. You changed my perspective. Okay, cool. Whereas if I just come straight in with a perspective, people wouldn't have it wouldn't have landed. So you have to like enter so there's this where you have to understand what's going on in the market right now, you just have to be aware of it.

Darren

I think trying to use an example in my world on that is kind of like you know, where all these coaches are they're super fucking stressed because they make 30k a month and they're just doing three times amount of work when they made 10k a month. Yeah, that and that that comparison there is if going from 10k to 30k a month means treat working three times harder, you're not scaling, you're just working harder. And I think that was a big thing at the weekend, which was like, oh, like, so you mean I don't just take three times amount of sales calls? It's like, no, you have a better you have a business that's three times better in times of in terms of delivery and acquisition and all this kind of shit. And that was a big thing for the weekend, was which is your next quantum leap is not by doing more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and this is the thing that people always get really butthurt about DMs, uh like like I have to do it, and it's like it's like, yeah, but it depends on the season, right? Because uh we said this to a client as well, there's always a launch sequence and then you're in orbit, but you have to go through, you have to burn the rocket fuel. So it's like it's like you know, uh I mean I don't know how many sales calls I've taken, I don't know how many DMs I've sent personally as well over the years, and like I have that skill and it's in there, but it's whenever you need to launch a new offer, you just gotta you've gotta touch your your offer or you, you have to touch the market. That's through conversations, that's through sales calls. You can't just install a setter and a closer like that without actually speaking to your audience. Like and dude, it's but it's a C, but this is the thing. It's like you said, it's like okay, get to 30k a month. And then the idea isn't that you keep doing that, it's like okay, you've learned so much, and it's like, right, now you have a team member, now you have leverage, but people think it's forever. So that's the the the issue.

Content That Reduces Cognitive Load

Darren

It breaks down to something very simple. You have to do the unscalable to scale. Yes, right. You have to be willing, sit with your clients. If someone has a little bit of an issue, get on a call, have a little chat with them. You need to help them on a little bit of a done-for-you component, put in a bit of extra work. You have to do the unscalable to scale, which is why for Aura, I've taken 90% of call software, hopped on calls where guys are totally broke, figured out what they're doing, what their life is like, what are they doing, and then after that, I was like, all right, I was valuable and hopped off because it's only as valuable as much value as you can extract. So if I can look at something get, ah, I got insight from this, it is 100% valuable. Anyone who's done anything meaningful in their life has done the unscalable until it's scalable. Yes, I'm documenting the process. Yes, I'm handing it off to my partnership manager, my head of sales, and my head of engineering, and that that's happening. But I am willing to put my neck out there to acquire that bit of nuance. And I think uh when it just boils down to the actual content, like specifically on content, I said this this morning on one of our consulting calls, which is it's not the information anymore, it's the nuance. So you can say the same as something to someone else, but with the nuance of your expertise slash experience. And look, if you're like, oh my god, I'm only 21, I'm not expect I'm not experienced, it's like your experience could be your age. Let me give an example. Um, I gotta be careful my words, but there's uh one of our partners that we're partnering with for Aura, they're a very large company, and they're a little bit older, probably in their 40s and 50s. And he the guy said to me, he was like, What you can give me is the experience that you have in the industry. So because you're in it, like literally in it, helping people build sales teams, you understand culture, society. That's a wedge that isn't based on how much decades of experience I have. That's actually based on me just being in the industry. So, you as a 21-year-old guy, your expertise, your nuance could be that you understand culture, you understand the right words to say, you don't say the word hip anymore. Literally, you understand the language of the industry. That is the nuance, and then of course, if you do have a truckload of clients, yes, what the experience that you have working with those clients is also equally valuable. But I think that's where you should be looking for the uniqueness, which is why Hormosy will say, Here's how to build an offer from someone who sold a company for 42 million and has a private equity company that makes a quarter of a billion, quarter billion uh a year, and that's the way I think about content. That's the way I think about your your USP.

SPEAKER_00

You know, Gen Z are speaking a different language right now. Have you seen like the uh like I I literally have to educate myself on how Gen Z speak there's whole new words, W in the chat, all of that, like the looks maxing. We I I was shared a villa with a guy who was 20 for a while, and it was actually the best thing ever. Because it's just like I was like, I was like, holy shit, this whole side of the internet is going on, and it this will always happen. It made me feel not old, but I was like, Oh yeah, like I feel like a different generation now, and uh, but it seems interesting for him to see what but you know. If I look at like on my Instagram as well, and I look who follows, it's mainly or watchers, it's people like 25 to 35 is like my age boy, and like the 21-year-olds are like, Who's this dinosaur? What's he saying? Oh, he's so lame. The things he's saying. I don't know, but like saying the word lame anyway. Oh yeah, he says the word lame, but he doesn't think about yeah, the he says that word, yeah. But but it's interesting just to see like the market shifts, and also like you know, I I want exposure to these young guys. It's like, okay, well, that's working. Why? How are you thinking about that? Oh, you they're they're they're switched on, their level of awareness is different. Like, it's it's it's really good to just be around these uh uh these young guys and just feel the market at its different awareness points, it's really interesting.

Darren

It's culture, yeah. Anything uh else from the weekend that for you really popped up?

Authority, Buckets, And Market Hum

SPEAKER_00

Um AI is the future. Um, but that this was the one big thing. So it was it was topic of uh it was it generated a bit of discussion, but built an AI companion first. So we've got AI tools, like not just like hey, here's a prompt. We have deep AI tools for the program. And this was the first time being able to do it over a uh like a three-day basis. So it was a bit of a big build for me, and it was a lot of fun doing it, and it was great to see that it worked and people engaged with it. That was like the biggest thing for me. I was like, oh wow, like it was it people it was actually valuable for people. But I think one of the biggest things, um, if you're building AI tools, in order to give them life, they have to believe something. And this is one of the things I spoke about at the mastermind when I was showing people how I built it. I was like, this will fall flat if you don't give it a philosophy. The AI has to have a philosophy, should be kind of related to yours, ideally, and then that's when it will feel alive. There has to be thing because AI is programmed to kind of just be like, yeah, whatever you believe or everyone thinks, you know, because it just has to be because of the nature of how it's built. But for you to build, for you to build specific AI tools that really have a like more of an impact for clients, you have to give it a philosophy and tell it what it does believe and what it doesn't believe. Because then it gives it the then it allows it to uh be like pushback on things. So you you have to be solid. It's great because it's a reflection of you. How solid are you in in your own philosophy that you can tell an AI you believe this, you don't believe this, here's why, here's where you push back. So that was kind of one of the biggest lessons is if you want to use AI, amazing. Give it, tell it what it believes. Can you give some use cases from people that were there? Use cases of just like some examples, because we've had some people had massive breakthroughs, like you were mentioning Michael, the public speaking guy. He came to me the first dinner and he just kind of looked at me and he like squinted his eyes a little bit. He was like, and he I think he he never swears. And he was he was like, That fucking AI, bro. And it's like it's he's like it's like all the things that I knew I needed to do, and like I've I've been dressing up a little bit, and he's like, Oh yeah, fuck. And it is and I was like, okay, well, that's really good. But also, even though it's kind of like our philosophy is put in there, and I put a lot of the contrarian way stuff in there as well. The the AI, the thing that the thing that's nice about the AI, for better or for worse, it does allow people to just go back and forth with it in the privacy of their, you know, they'll say the things that they're not gonna say in front of 50 other people, they'll say those things. They'll so so the the the AI is just a mirror, and the more you put into it, the more honest you are, the more helpful the advice is. So the people who like life. Yeah, the the the people who got the best out of it are the ones who are able to meet it honestly, and then it gave the best honest reflection. And it that's what it was designed to do. It's not like coming up with these beautiful ideas, it's just it's poking. It's designed to find where you find an emotional point because the emotional point is there to teach you something, and then it's there to press and then to help you understand the emotional point because the emotion's happening in you. The AI's job is to just press on that and be like, well, why is that there? Okay, is there something there? And then it so through your language, it kind of like codes that and then presses on it. Uh and that's why it's impactful. But it is you, it's just a mirror. You the lessons are all in you. It's just finding the emotions and then it's pressing on them, and then the emotion is already within you. And it's just understanding that and why that's there is teaching you the lesson. So that's why it's so powerful. Yeah.

Darren

So I think what's what I love about that is the fact that for most events that you go to, it's just like info, info, info. There's no integration. Yeah. This was like live integration because it's like what's actually coming up for you now on day one, right? So for generally, like how masterminds are run is like it's info, info, integration. Whereas this was a constant feedback loop as to what's working, what's not. So what's the best thing here? The money that you spend to come to the mastermind is is literally like integrated, right? It's like it's irreflective straight away, should I say, that you're able to get immediate feedback so that you actually consume it and apply it. And that's why we want people to use it because they're able to say, okay, uh here's the context, which is how uh Darren and Tom hate half a million a month. Here is what I know because of the scenario from my context. That's what people are missing. They're missing integration.

SPEAKER_00

It's the safe container, it's a safe space, it's a safe, we create a safe space. It's a safe is for safe, it's a safe space for people to fail. That's what it is. It's because the ri the stakes are lower when you're around people who are there to support you. So when you come to one of those containers and then you do a session with Tyranan and you're like, right, open up your phone. We're sending 10 messages right now.

Darren

Let's just go start.

SPEAKER_00

But but you're able to the the reason that feels safe is because you're there. It's not even on call, you're there right now holding like it's it's safe for me to expand because this is where growth happens. I have to go into discomfort, but the discomfort is managed, I can regulate that discomfort being around other people. So that's why it's so powerful. But that's again, like you said, a lot of masterminds are just sort of, hey, sit down, here's a dinner, and there's some information. Okay, I've got some notes, but the real I mean, maybe mastermind isn't even the right word. It's more like, you know, it's in an intensive, it's a container. Like these are why we have those words. And I think ours is probably bleeding out of like masterminds is probably the right way to brand it, but I would say it is more of an intensive that we've created there. It's is not just like here's an info dump.

Scaling Without Just Doing More

Darren

Yeah, because I guess like the beautiful part about what we do is I guess I'm just really conscious of results. And I know obviously we want to have a great experience, but I'm very conscious of results. And I think um, yeah, that's something that I really want to kind of double down on too is like how do we create these containers so that you're leaving with results? So that's why we did the re-offer thing. So for context, we had everyone stand up, and it was funny, Alice was at the end of the other day. She was like, I can't believe you got everyone to stand up. Me and Tina were like, Everyone get the fuck up. And then we got people to run their offer, and we helped them with a strategy to make sure people bought. So we gave them like uh specific offers, one-time offers, all this kind of stuff, and we got people to actually go around and message people. And our philosophy is who's in your hot category right now? Who's booked a call with you, didn't close, who's shown interest, but for whatever reason didn't get started. Those people, one out of two of those, should close. What happened? People like Liz ran the offer, she had three people close the first day. Zara had someone book a call, a bunch of other people have people book calls and close later on in the days. Sarah as well was the exact same. She moved their price up and had people close. Why? Because the gap between the result you have right now and the result that you want isn't based on creating more content, it's about speaking to fucking prospects and asking them to buy your product. There's a time and a place to ask someone for the dance. Let me give you an analogy, an example. Let's just say you're a man and you see this beautiful woman across the bar. You won't make eye contact, there's a bit of flirtatious looks. You walk over and you approach her, you say something not stupid, and you start talking and talking and talking, and she's sitting there being like, When is this guy gonna ask me for my number? And at the end of it, you say, Okay, see you, bye, and you turn around, you walk away. And she's like, What the fuck? She's like, I want to give you my number, and you didn't do that because at some point somebody has to ask someone to dance. And if you're not doing it, well, no wonder you never hit your goals, no wonder you never hit your revenue goals, no wonder you never hit whatever you want to achieve in life. And I think part of that, which is so beautiful for our event, is get the fuck up, stand up, run the offer, get some nose out of the way, get some nose, get the nose out of the way, so you're one step closer to the yes. And I feel like if I look back on the history of our business, is I've gotten very good at sending the uncomfortable messages. Like, hey man, like full transparency, like this is how I can help you, you want to get started. And as even this morning, I sent a message to someone being like, ready to go, question mark, like are you ready to get started? Because look, the way I think about this is if you can actually help someone, truly, truly help someone, you should have no issue with asking them to buy something, and that's where you need to have utmost confidence and you got to be competent, but you have to be willing to just say, Hey, here's how I can help you. Are you open to getting started? And if someone then has half a fucking brain, they'll say back to you, they'll appreciate it, right? So even if they're not in the buying window right now for whatever reason, if the offer does isn't as sweet as as you want it to be, they'll be like, All right, this guy, at least this guy has the balls to ask me, you know, versus like mulling around. I think you described it very well, which is you know, you can't friend zone yourself and then ask to turn around a conversation six months later. You can have intentions and clear intentions, but I think the clear intentions can be I can help you. We have a mutual contract, a contact con a mutual friend, I won't mention his name, but he's known in the industry to be very direct and he's known to always be asking people to buy shit from him. And initially, when I heard about the kind of feedback from other people in the network in our network and stuff, people were like, Oh, it's quite distasteful and stuff. And I was like, Yeah, but also no, because he's very straight up with his intentions, he knows he can help you, he's an experienced entrepreneur, and when he asks you to buy something, it's because he can help you. So I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I think it's a bad thing if he made a friendship and he's like, Tom, you want to come over and fucking see my see my baked goods? Yeah, he's like, Oh, here's my offer under here, you know?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, don't say that again.

Darren

And look, and this is the thing is like friends can also become clients, right? Like I have many friends that over the years they've become clients because they're like, Look, Darren, like you're shit out of what you do, let's have a conversation to see how we can get started. And there's nothing wrong with that. So it's obviously new, it was nuance, right? But I just think it's it's funny because at the end of the day, when when I was observing people during that event, it was actually hilarious to observe in terms of the what you what I believe versus what happens in the room is people were scared, then they overcame the fear. People had no way to contact their leads, and I went on the mic and I was like, Why don't you have your fucking the phone number of your leads? The crazy shit. They're like, I only have your email. I'm like, no wonder they didn't buy. You sent them an email.

unknown

What?

Darren

And then when people actually started to put in the reps, they got confident, of course. And even when they got a bunch of nodes, they were confident.

Do The Unscalable To Scale

SPEAKER_00

Leadership is it's like you said, it's you have to be very you have clear boundaries of the parameter of the relationship, you're willing to engage with people. It's like the example you gave of dating. You have to lead with intention, you can't just this everyone knows the slimy friend zone guys like, oh, we're just hanging out, and then hoping that something will happen. Like that's you know, yeah, but again, also the nuance here as well. It can be different for men and women. Sometimes women need a bit, you everyone can lean into like the masculine and feminine, whatever. So sometimes, like some women entrepreneurs, they are much more like they they know how to do the attraction side, and it's just a skill that they have, yeah. Um, but then uh sometimes a lot of times that's not working, which is why they like okay, we'll teach you how to do the more direct side of things. Okay, and then you find the balance there um as well. But you've got you've got to lead and you've you've got to tell people this is the parameter of the relationship, this is what I'd like the next step to be. And people that gives them safety. Oh, okay, because it's a lot of pressure to figure that out yourself. If you can tell me this is how you can operate in my world, this is the next step. Oh, thank you. And when people are clear, they buy. When they're when people are clear they buy, when they're confused, that's when you lose them. So you always need that big neon sign. This is the next step. Yes, this is what it looks like. At every point in the prospect's journey, they should know exactly what the next step is. Even if it's a little one, they should be very clear. Oh, that's the next step. And I often say I said this on the call this morning as well, is like the again, it was someone we looked at their content. I was like, I don't know what you do. So if I you you you're making some content, okay, but you don't tell I can't see how I deepen my relationship with you. You just have some stuff there, and I can't see what the next step is. And it's the same thing with relationships. Yeah, you might find someone attractive, but if you can't see what the next step is, you're lessing it, there's less intention or there's less, yeah, there's less intention you have for that relationship. Okay, they're attractive, but whatever there's there's no future. Whereas when you can clearly show, hey, this is what a future would look like with me, with my coaching, with whatever, that actually uh kind of switches on something in people where they're like, oh, they start to understand what a relationship long term with you would look like. They start to they start to imagine a future together. That's powerful, that's like subconscious marketing that you can do. If you don't have that, you don't have that next step, you lose out on all of that as well.

Darren

We have 70% female clients, and a lot of our best results come from female entrepreneurs. And I feel it's because they can balance the emotional side of interaction with a client and hold that strength that they care, they have that deep care, but then they also learn from us the directness. Say it in this way, run the offer in this way, ask the person out for the day for the date, take the next step, go the next go the next journey with that prospect, and actually book some calls and close them. And I think that's the best position to be in because they can be in that ultimate uh feminine side and they can you know build a great program and care for the results, but then they have this strike and they're able to actually strike when they need to, maybe a bit more of like a masculine trait to be like, hey, here's how I can help you, and here's how to get results. And I think that's actually why I genuinely think that female entrepreneurs are better than male, because the male guys the the males like they just they're just so shut down to feedback, they're so shut down to the ego, they're so shut down to it not being the perfect way. And this was a big thing for me in consulting that kind of like maybe it was a big thing that I I learned, which was you pay someone for consulting, yet you want them you want to hear what you want to hear, and it's like well that's problematic long term because if you only want to hear what what got you stuck in the first place, well, six months later you did the same thing that you were already doing, whereas I find with like female entrepreneurs they're much more receptive, and people are always like, Oh, like, but when I speak to my girlfriend, she's not as receptive. It's like, no, no, can context is important, a business relationship or a professional professional engagement, how I describe it as they're much more open to it. So, like, my my biggest feedback for anyone here that's like wants to invest in coaching is when you invest in coaching or consulting, invest in coaching and consulting.

SPEAKER_00

What's the difference between this is where I think because the lines are blurred between what's mentorship, what's consulting, and what's coaching, because those are different things. And I think really what suits a lot of guys or can do again, because it's different. Some people want like people don't even know what those terms are. People don't know the difference of those terms. So it's a lot of guys actually what they want is consulting because that's easier for me to process. It's like, oh yeah, I hired them as a consultant that keeps I get to keep the power that way. So it this depends where people are in their development, whatever. It's like, yeah, they're a consultant, they're helping me with my business, there's that. Whereas, like, you know, some of the female clients, but again, it changes for everyone that they can lean more into like, no, this is a coach, and I want that deeper level of like accountability. So these are all different terms that I think the industry is just kind of like jammed together, and it's like, oh, I'm a I'm a mentor or I'm a coach and I'm a consultant. It's like, no, those are three actually quite different things. Yes. So but that's a good point, bro. Yeah, very good point. So there's again, but it's understanding, but again, we kind of do we do do all of those things, and it's just understanding with like some of the males, it's like, okay, you you actually want a like I can be the consultant right now, and like I can plug into that figure for you because that's gonna you know the soothe your ego of like yes, you are whatever. Okay, it's like you you've got to be malleable for it as well, and then some people come in and they're all like, you are my mentor, and that's a very different relationship, and they they exist everywhere within the uh the the program, yeah.

Integration Over Info At Events

Darren

And it's it's it's funny, right? Because it's a drop of the ego. So the way I think about this, right, because the auto lights are blurred, is like, you know, obviously, I've been in the absolute wars building out aura, and now like a lot of it is is built. So obviously, of another battle, which is fucking getting people to buy it. But when I was kind of in the pits in the in the journey of that last year, that was a very good example of mentorship, which is like, I'm in this with you, I'm building something new. Come look over my shoulder, let me give you some reflection about what's happening as I'm doing it, what's working, what's not working, what's the psychology of users. A lot of things weren't as positive as people think they would be. So that was great. That was really interesting. So anyone with half a brain is like, this person is mentoring me because he's in that experience too, which is really great. When we look back on like the exhibition the experience you've shared from hitting half a million a month, it's like that's a consulting approach, right? And then the coaching approach is you'd often you probably pick this up, but I generally say to like um male clients, do I have the permission to give you feedback? And then I always say the same thing, which is get out of your fucking head. You know, we have a lot of guys that are too smart for their own good, and I mean on the best way possible, because of their intelligence, it allowed them to tread carefully with their decisions, which allowed them to build, let's say, like a half a million to a million a year business. But it that same characteristic absolutely crucifies them, bro. Like, I think it it it it it it really, really fucks people up. Whereas, you know, someone asked me at the mastermind, they were like, Well, what's your strength? And I was like, My strength is having dumbass energy. I'm willing to run at a wall as hard as possible, smash the wall, get back up, and run at the wall again. And having dumbass energy allowed me to shake off all the bad demons, it allowed me to get rid of all the emotional baggage, it allowed me to get out of my own fucking way to realize that all business isn't necessarily to do with me. It's not me, me, me. It's we, number one, and two, it's the fucking client. How do you help the client as much as possible? And I think that what is my biggest strength is being a total dumbass. And then I'm able to even identify with it. And I wake up every morning, I'm like, here's a list of problems that I have. All right, well, I got two options. I can sell by a fucking napkin and quit, or else I can just run at this list of to-do lists and just get them done.

SPEAKER_00

Retard maxing a bit of a lot of things. Retard maxing it.

Darren

That's the that's a proper word, but I gotta use a PG version for when I'm online.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, really?

Darren

Okay, yeah. I usually call it autism maxing when it comes to actually doing the work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's the thing is when you run it continually run at the wall, like the nice thing is it continues to knock brain cells out, so it increases your capability to continue to do it.

Darren

It's right, because you know the way they talk about like the staircase in your career, whatever. I do think that the more okay, let's take a step back. So info in agency, like it's very how do I describe this? It's you can have the same problems over and over again, and it may not be you. So let's just say you have emotional clients or you might have like erratic people. You get me? It's like you need to put a container on it to make sure that that problem goes away. Okay, but I'm just referencing my software experience with software, it's actually very different. With software, is you solve the problem once and it can it solves the problem for a million people. So whenever I'm up against an absolute wall, and this is the same for consulting, I always think about okay, this is actually when most people actually just quit. So it's totally chill. If I can just fix this issue right now, working closely with an absolute headache user or something like that. Um, if I can just solve this issue, that this is one step closer to all of the issues that people can't solve. So I always think about the road to one million, sorry, not the road to one million, the road to a hundred million is filled with a bunch of obstacles that most people quit on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a nice way to think about it.

Offers, Asks, And Closing The Gap

Darren

It's just obstacles, and you can be super emotional and cry about it, or you can just run at it and bang your head off the wall. And then of course you can do with a bunch of people, and you can all bang your head off the wall, and then the wall's gonna break easier, or you can have a bit of leverage and go around the wall. So that's the way I kind of think about just business in general, and that's where it's like for me, it's so important to have the right people, it's just so important to me, you know? Because even uh whenever anything has popped up inside the business, I love that I can call you and just be like, hey, like, like, is it like is it gonna be alright? You're like, yeah, it's gonna be alright for this reason, you know? And then you might ring me and you probably don't ask me, is it gonna be alright? But you're like, at least you have the confidence to know that I'm gonna sit here until it's solved, right? And I think that's the reassurance that it is great. So, like, look, if you don't have a partner, you don't you don't need that, but oh sorry, if you don't have a partner, it's not like you have that, but you might have a coach or you might have a team member. And I think uh, or you might have a spouse. The amount of fucking times that I come home at 10 o'clock at night and I sit there and I'm like, holy shit, and then Elise's reassuring and caring. And then to be honest, man, a lot of times Elise might just look to me and just be like get the fuck on with it. It's like you know, you're pissed off by this client that was already a shit client, and now you're upset that that client's leaving. It's like, well, how did you think this was gonna go? You know, so I think Elise is able to provide a little bit of a nuanced view for me, which is helpful, versus just purely being like the support coach. Yeah, which I don't think she's not in the support coach category, she's more in the like based in reality uh angle, which is important, right? So that it's not like misery loves company at that point, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I found that with Julia as well. It's you know, and people the people close to you. Yeah, she's perked up. The people close to you, it's you know, the people whose opinions I quote unquote, I don't know if care is but if I know I'm good with the people close to me, like it gives me a lot I I could take much bigger risks in other areas because I'm I don't care what people think. Like the people who are close to me in my close relationships, I know they're good. I know that like if I have a good day or a bad day, it's gonna be the same. Whereas like that enables you to say something that you know you take a brisk, put your neck out, do something. It's like you know, it's it's quite stabilizing.

Darren

I think I said that to you as well last week. I was like, uh fucking hell, bro. The days are like years. I was like, um, just tell me what I can do better. I said it to you, Magnum, on Friday too. I was like, I was like, I want to know like what can I do better, you know? And it's not like oh my god, you're an absolute loser, which is probably true, but it's more just like contextually, like what can I do better in this moment? And I do think that you need to have that open feedback loop with your clients, with your team members, with your spouse. And it's like, am I completely out of whack here? Like, did I do something wrong? And um, because though those guys could tell you, right? Because if they if they can tell you, then you're not you're not invested. And it's okay, right? Like, I'm not saying that you have to be 100% invested all the time, but it's like you need to get information somewhere because if you don't, you're gonna take information from your ads comments. And in my ads comments, people are telling me that I'm like Diddy, yeah, I'm the Irish Diddy and stuff. And it's like, well, where am I getting my info from? Where am I getting my feedback from, you know? That's so funny. And not all not all feedback is created equal, right? There's a very uh there's a common thing in software, which is noise versus signal, and it's uh is something like a general great signal to cre to alter direction or improve direction or strengthen direction, or it's something totally noise. And there's many times where I'll say to Nathan, one of our one of our guys, Nora, I'm almost like, oh, I'm like, ignore that. Like someone will say something, I'm like, just ignore that one. That one's that one can slide, you know, and that's important too with your business and with your with your personal development, is like, okay, does this person really have info? Like I had spoken to my mentor last week, and afterwards me and Magno looked at all the feedback and we're like, okay, point two, four, six, seven valid, point one and three not valid. And it's okay, right? It's totally chill, and that's where discernment is the big uh the big word of the year, having actual discernment.

SPEAKER_03

Cool, cool, man. That's a good spot.

Darren

Thank you so much for everything, bro.

SPEAKER_03

Next week in Dubai, it's gonna be fun. Yeah, we get some sun as well. I'm excited for that.