Kickoff Sessions

Building a $30,000/mo Agency for a Client in 60 Minutes

• Darren Lee

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0:00 | 1:00:21

I sat down with one of our clients — a podcast agency owner stuck at £6K/month — and built the exact roadmap to scale her to £30K/month without working more hours.

We cover the real reason done-for-you agencies hit a ceiling, how to build a hiring engine that never stops, why retainer + rev share changes everything, and the reoffer strategy that closes leads everyone else gives up on.

If you run an agency, coaching business, or any service business, this is the playbook.

⏱ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 – The £6K → £30K goal
2:40 – Acquisition vs delivery: the only two things that matter
5:50 – Building a hiring engine (the JP Morgan lesson)
10:10 – Ramping new hires (why you must hire 45 days early)
11:57 – Maker vs manager: who to promote (and who not to)
15:40 – Retainer + rev share: the model that breaks linear growth
23:34 – Done-for-you vs done-with-you offers
30:50 – How to qualify consulting clients
32:45 – The referral outbound system (25% + 5% in perpetuity)
36:38 – The reoffer strategy (proximity, speed, duration, price)
41:50 – Opening up your ICP beyond referrals
44:20 – Market to the root cause, not the symptom
48:30 – The problem awareness loop
53:40 – Gap selling: current state vs future state
59:10 – Final principles

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The £6K To £30K Goal

Darren

Today, we're going to create an exact roadmap to scale your online business. I'm here with Vero, one of our clients, and we're going to go through an exact scaling roadmap to grow your online business. So, Vero, for everyone, can you run through what your offer is and really where the revenue is right now in your business?

SPEAKER_00

So basically, I have uh an a podcast agency in Spain in which I do a done for you podcast. They only record the episode, but I do the scripting, then the all the post-production, like uh teasers, uh reels, TikTok shorts, thumbnail, title, description, and even the scheduling, like everything, everything. And currently I'm at uh 6k per month, and I would like to go to 30k per month, but not dying in terms of with a lot of work and also starting like posting more content.

Darren

Yeah, for sure. And I think what's interesting here is done-for-you content agencies are typically the hardest to scale because it involves you working harder to be able to make more money, and it's a very linear fashion. So, what I'd love to do today is walk through an exact roadmap for you and how everyone here as well can listen to how they can incorporate that to grow their agency, which is kind of like business on hard mode, as well as even their coaching business is quite similar. So, let's just take this a step down. So, let's just say right now you're at 6k a month and you want to go to 30k a month. Now, what is the biggest constraint you have right now that's preventing you from getting to the next level?

SPEAKER_00

Um like I would say the the biggest bottlenecks on the process is the all the benchmark that you have to do to the script for the script.

Darren

The benchmark in terms of like the quality.

SPEAKER_00

In terms of which content is trending, which uh content wants to see this target audience, and then also like on the sorry, on the business bottlenecks, the benchmark, then the my like giving my criteria to the editors and the reports. But in terms of business business, is that all my clients came from referrals, so I didn't build anything in terms of content, website. I didn't have even like a corporate email until I had like eight small in the business.

Darren

So you don't need that stuff,

What Really Blocks Agency Growth

Darren

yes, you don't need it in the beginning with, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, but it's like I haven't built website, I haven't built content or anything, everything was from referrals.

Darren

Well, the good news is even for today, you won't need that, right? What I want you to kind of think about and how we break this down is there's really only two sites, right? There's acquisition. So this is basically how we're gonna get clients, and then there's actually delivery. That's the only thing that matters. So for you, because you have a content agency, we need to really, really nail the delivery. So the way you described it to me, Viro, is that you're basically you need to get effectively someone to find the right clips, to do the research, do the content, all this kind of stuff for your clients. So this is actually delivering the actual service. So my first question to you is what does your team look like?

SPEAKER_00

So currently all of them are freelancers.

Darren

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I have uh like one person that is like my right hand. She helps me with everything, and she does also like project management of the podcast, and then the 70% of the team are editors, and the other rest like thumbnail editors, or maybe like more concrete concrete tasks.

Darren

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And all the team is like 10 freelancers.

Darren

Yeah. So the biggest challenge that you're gonna have, or the biggest challenge that you're alluding to, is if you need someone who's gonna find you the best clips, who's gonna be a great script writer, who's gonna take care of the accounts, you do need the right team members in place and you need the right hiring engine. So we basically have this concept called a hiring engine, which means that your product, which is basically what you sell as your service, all of that is predicated and is based on your team. So if you're not getting the right talent coming into your business, this is going to be a problem. And you're serving mainly in a Spanish market and you're moving into an English-speaking market as well. So my suggestion to you here is before you bring in anyone else on acquisition, we need to know that the team is really, really solid. So, what does that look like? If the team is not designed the right way, we don't have the right processes for hiring. So this is like the hiring process, then at the end of the day, the product is gonna suck. Like there's gonna be a question mark over your product over and over again. So, how do we solve this? Right now, how are you getting the right team members in? Like, what are you doing to hire a new talent?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, so basically, I use some like freelancer websites to get the all the editors. Also, recently I tried like threads that was surprisingly good.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_00

And but like my right hand that is the most important person currently in the business because she overviews everything. It was because I I met her and I I need someone as she is, but I'm I don't know where to search her. And I ask her, like, do you have some friend or like maybe someone closer, like close to her that is like her?

Darren

Yeah. Um you basically need this happening continuously though. And what that means is it would need to go in like a circle like this, whereby

Acquisition Versus Delivery Focus

Darren

you're constantly, constantly looking for new talent. So basically, like the recruitment starts here, the hiring starts here, and you will always need this. So, my recommendation to you is almost creating like a Slack account, a Slack channel, adding in people like let's say your friend or anyone that has hiring managers or people that go off to Instagram or X to find editors, and you're constantly looking for applications coming into your company. So for us on our sales team, we get around 100 applications a month. For editors, we get around 10 a week. And the more we can get in, the more options you have. The story I have with this is are you familiar with the bank JP Morgan? It's a big investment bank. They have a graduate program where they hire 200 graduates a year. They get 100,000 applications for those 200 roles. So, what does that mean? Because they are recruiting constantly, because they're hiring constantly, they have the best talent in the world. And this is important for you because all of this is based on your product. Because for you, you don't you don't sell a product as a service. The service is the product. But if we don't have the right people coming in who are allocated the right resources, they're gonna fall down. So whether it's a content agency, um, any type of any type of agency service, whether it's like recruitment, uh sales agency, if you don't have enough of the right people inside here, we're gonna start running into issues. So, my question for you from here is what sort of processes do you've set up right now that help you with delivery? Like how are you leveraging things like AI? How are you leveraging different platforms to be able to help you with the delivery?

SPEAKER_00

So basically, currently I created like a notion with all the SOPs, and every time a new episode of a podcast comes, I click a button, like a button, and all the tasks are uh assigned to the person.

Darren

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00

And in the in the next to the task, they have the SOP. So it's like very clear to everyone the task they have every week, and also the SOP next to it, and also a lot of some SOPs, for example, like uh descriptions or things that are easier to do. There's like a custom GPT.

Darren

So they can use that custom GPT with the prompt, and it's easy for them to do the so at 6k a month, how many clients can your team hot handle right now?

SPEAKER_00

Five.

Darren

Five? Yes. So what's preventing you from signing more clients? Is it more systems or people?

SPEAKER_00

Is I would say that this like acquisition.

Darren

Acquisition. Okay, cool. So I think on the on the team side, just to finish up this point, is that when it does come to you stepping away from the delivery, you will need, like you said, the the woman that works very closely with you, she needs to have her own pod. So the way I describe this is if you look at, and we'll come back to this. How agencies uh find it very hard to scale is there's you up here and you're like the CEO. Okay. You traditionally would handle everything underneath here. But what we do need is we'll need like one like pod owner. So they're like the owner, and maybe there's two the pod owner here, and from from this down here, they will have the editors from here. So you'll have editor one, two, three, and then likewise here. But your goal as a business owner is to make sure that we have these pods constantly growing, constantly, constantly growing because you should net well, the the hardest thing for you right now, 100% growing your business, is going to be able to handle the delivery. Yes, and that's the biggest constraint that you're gonna have 100%. So, how do we how do we solve that problem? We solve that problem by having the hiring engine inside here, you're constantly looking for new people inside your hiring engine, and that's in here, which is super, super important. So, you're gonna have that hiring engine that's constantly being run out. These people then are getting ramped. Are you familiar with the concept of ramping?

SPEAKER_00

No.

Darren

So, what this means is you can't hire right now for your for your uh company

Building A Hiring Engine

Darren

and put them on edit straight away. Like that's just a bad decision. So, if we know that we need to bring in editors or sales reps or operations people or ads managers, they're probably gonna take anywhere between 21 and 45 days to be really, really ramped up. And what does that mean? That means if you need more editors, you're gonna need to start today. Yeah, you're gonna need to get them in as early as possible so that they're learning, they're taking a bit of time, they're they're learning the SOPs inside here, like all the SOPs, and then they're basically fully ramped here after that's after 45 days. Because imagine tomorrow, if we brought you in five new clients, but we don't have the editors in the background, and we don't have the pod owner inside here, you won't actually be able to do delivery. Yes, and the biggest challenge, one of the biggest challenges is that for an HC like yourself, you would need to manage the back door of the business more so than the front door because getting clients for you, yes, it's a constraint, but we don't want clients churning like crazy.

SPEAKER_00

And one question, because for example, uh currently like the pot owner is like my this this gal. But the thing is, I currently I need another one to be able to grow. Would you like get an editor and make them be also project management manager because they know the craft, or would you would you get someone that has experience maybe in project management or that is really organized and teach them the with all the soupies and everything?

Darren

There's there's two sides to this, right? I think one way to look at it is if in general you kind of have two different parts of your business. You're either the maker, okay, or you're the manager. Now why that's important is because the maker does execution stuff. So what that means is editing, you know, admin, sales, they're physically doing stuff, right? The manager is overseeing, overseeing everything. They're not actually doing the task itself, they're mainly just making sure that they have oversight on like things are getting done. So is it done? Question mark. Now, there's an extra part to this, whereas if some of the roles are like editing, the thing about editing is that editing is a creative task. But if you're creative, at the same time that you're creative, you're not an operator. And this is where people really, really mess this up, is because you're hiring someone who's an execution person, who's doing the work, they're editing, they're designing, they're very creative. They're probably putting out a bit of content, you know, they're delivering you content every day, but it's not, it's not loads. And now all of a sudden they're an operator. And the brain actually finds it very hard to go between the two. I find it very hard to write ad scripts and record them in the same day and do seven one-to-ones. Like it's just your brain is in two different parts. Even today, today's a Sunday, we're in a studio, we're being more creative because we need to allow ourselves to be like this. If you have someone who's truly, truly on top of their stuff, so they're able to always deliver ahead of time, they want to move into more of a manager role. You can give them that that neck next role. But the way I would describe it is I call it a stretch, a stretch goal. It's hey, like Jane, John, you're really good at what you do. We want you to become the pod manager in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. Let's put you on a stretch goal and see if can they get there. And if they don't get there, it's fine. It's almost like a private offer you give them and just say, hey, we're gonna do this test and see if can they do it. A lot of people won't want to do it or they won't be able to do it, and then they just go back to being the editor.

unknown

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

Makes sense, yes. And I was thinking that maybe I have, for example, one editor that is like a player, he's uh like he's amazing. Maybe instead of putting him like as a manager, I could put him teaching other editors or something like that. On the when the editors come, that he's the one reviewing all the content instead of me.

Darren

Yes, it's also about looking actually one way to double tap on this too is my my whole thesis around hiring is every role has a soul. So one person does one task. So if the editor is really good, leave him edit. If he wants to help other people and do some QA, he can help other people. But I think you'll fall you'll fall into some issues when you try to get people to do everything at once. And I've learned that from experience. Just because someone is very talented doesn't mean they should do multiple roles. I would ideally keep them separate and bring someone else in because it will actually cost you the same amount of money to do this, and it's just one part of the game of um agency work is that you you will need more people. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, totally.

Darren

Now I want to go back for a second to what you said about acquisition because this was really interesting. Now, before we get into acquisition and optimizing the offer, if our

SOPs, Notion And Custom GPTs

Darren

goal is to get 30k a month, how we scaled our agency to six figures a month and seven figures in profit a year was actually not by signing more clients. How we actually got there was changing the delivery model so that we have retainers, which is one of the acquisition channels, but then we also have rev shares. And why that's important is because if you're just selling a retainer offer for your agency, it's 5k, 5k, 5k, 5k, it's very linear. But because it's so linear, the delivery is so tough. You need more editors, more team members. Whereas when we add in a Rev share component, even of that specific funnel, it will allow you to extract more money from that individual account. So let's just give an example. Let's say you run a content agency, you're helping people with their podcast and all their content on YouTube. Well, if that person pays you 3k a month, you know you're making 3k. But what if there was a world whereby someone pays you 5% of the funnel? And let's just say you launch a new funnel with someone, you build out the entire funnel, and then they end up making 100k in a month. Now you've just made the 3K plus 5k, and this is what gives us the asymmetry. So in our agency, we have clients making 50k a month, 100k a month, 200k a month. We take anywhere from 25% up to 50% of that business. Now we run a sales agency on the back, so it's slightly different, but for you with the content, think about this model. Because even for me, if I'm going to work with a provider, even my ad agency, our ad agency, we pay a retainer and we pay, I'm pretty sure it's like it's like 5% or something similar to this. That means that that person is committed to the outcome. Does that make sense? Yes. Because what's very interesting in the agency world is usually the way businesses work is input, output, and outcome. Okay. So why that's so funny is because input, you do things, like you just go and do things, is otherwise known as a job. That is literally a job. You go and you just do things and you show up and so on. Output is services. So right now with your agency, you help people produce content and so on. But if you change it to outcome, which was revenue or what they want to achieve, they then have this new way of working with you. This will improve the stickiness, it will reduce churn, it will basically just help you grow your business. But the thing is, most people view services as a cost. So I have to work with you, Viro, to run my podcast, and it's gonna cost me this much. Whereas outcome is an investment. And this is what's so interesting, is you literally change the the whole dynamic of a client's brain because you're saying, like, hey, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna go to war with you, I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna work really, really committed to this. All I want is a small piece of the prize because I'm also committed to the goal. And the way I handle this objection, if anyone ever has issues, it's right now you have a hundred percent of zero, whereas if we get this right for you, you'll have 95% of 10k, 50k, 100k. And it gives a lot of upside. So our thoughts on this feedback?

SPEAKER_00

One question because would you offer the variable part to everyone? Because I see that there are some businesses that make sense, they already working, the value proposition is amazing, the audience is amazing, but there are others that maybe their funnel is not that good. But even if you get deeper, the business model is not the best they can do. So, would you offer to all of them or to the ones that you want to really be involved? Because maybe you get very involved, and then the uh outcome that you get is not that much.

Darren

Okay, let's let's take another example of this. Right now, to add to this, what's your pricing? Your current pricing range?

SPEAKER_00

So it depends on of the number of episodes. Yes, if it's like one episode per month is one one thousand, like one point three thousand if it's two is two uh ranges.

Darren

Yeah, so it ranges from one point three K to how much on the high end from one

Pod Owners And Team Structure

Darren

episode? So one episode to let's say four episodes, how much would that be?

SPEAKER_00

Uh okay, it would be like from one to um four K.

Darren

Okay, perfect. So you always start with what you have, okay? This is great. I would leave this unchanged. I would then start adding in a rev share to clients in general, in general, right? And let's just say five percent of rev from that funnel, from funnel. So, what this is saying is from that specific funnel, we'll we'll we'll take five percent, which will drive more revenue. And then for you, this is where it's very interesting. You can suggest this to everyone because it's the same structure, you're just adding in more and you're making more money, but then you will also start advising them on their business. And this is where you go from being a service provider to a consultant because now you're having this beautiful part whereby you're doing work for them, so you're responsible for the outcome, but then you're simultaneously actually advising them. That brings up your value. This is what we do, very much. Okay, so so we people pay us through the retainer, they pay us for on their rev share, and then we come in and advise and consult them. Now, how much more valuable is that? That's worth a lot. So then let's take case. case if there's some specific um I know you work with like B2C products if there's some things that you can measure and manage then all then you know why not you know yes and even if even if it generates an extra $700 a month it's $700 that you don't have right now yes you know so that that's one side of it. So I think here and this is interesting because this is part of your offer it's looking at the pricing looking at the Rev share and then look I think there's another side of it too where is there any specific areas that you consult with the clients on right now?

SPEAKER_00

So basically I would say that they monetize the podcast through sponsorship or through selling their products or services and usually I advise them on how to implement the like product placement or how to get sponsors and also I help them with the sponsors part.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And also the tracking and a bit of the funnel but I don't change them the funnel okay so you're advising them on how to do this? Yes and how to get the most of it in terms of views and revenue. Are there is there any scenario whereby you could work with someone on consulting without the delivery what I mean what do you mean without delivering because I'm their trust provider on content.

Darren

What I'm suggesting here is there's a there's a world where you have fully done for you which is this pricing. Okay it's all this pricing it's all this stuff like both of these come in here and they come in here and you're teaching them everything plus the consulting okay and you're like yeah this is how you grow your business this is how you do the product placement it's all this kind of stuff but there is a world whereby you only do consulting because they have some stuff. So let's just say Lee comes in they already have a marketing team they already have a content team they're up and running and they're like you know what Vero I like what you do we want to get sponsorships could you just help us on this side and this is where you could have an offer a bespoke offer which is just a three month engagement I work with you let's just say 4K okay and I'll advise you on your your content strategy and your sponsorship strategy e.g. revenue which will allow them to grow their business because I like to decouple a few things you now have gone from just having this basic linear model to a Rev share to and then hopefully they'll take it and if they don't take it we have the consultant and this allows you to increase the TAM so the total addressable market because now when someone comes through your funnel and they try to uh book to buy from you we have this model the done for you model or this is more of like a done with you model and this is the stuff that's craving in the market because what people want is someone who's been there and done it but they might have just things they might have team members and so on and this is what makes your offer super super valuable and you can really scale this up now.

SPEAKER_00

I would love to get some feedback what's your thoughts so basically I feel I don't know if it was a mistake or not but I wanted to be the best in my craft on the DOM for you and if there were a possibility of doing more I was like no no my services are these ones and I'm very good at these ones. So currently maybe I do some consulting for them but I'm not more involved because it would be like new departments or new crafts and I was like maybe the easiest way to scale is doing the exactly the same with a lot of clients but now that you mentioned this it's

Ramping New Hires Properly

SPEAKER_00

true that the logistics and the uh I mean and the costs will be would be higher than if I get higher tickets from less clients.

Darren

Yeah there's just a few ways to look at it it's like your the linear path is very linear. But the way that you want to build this is you have the funnel that comes in okay this is the TAM up here they'll come true and when they do come true we need to have a breakout in offers. So what I mean by this is you'll take the sales call this is where the call takes place and let's just say there's there's a thousand different requirements they could have they may want done for you they might done with you they might and that that's the consulting side so they're done for you done done with you side and then you want to basically have offers that's going to basically pull them to Bowie's and then as a result your close rate's going to go up because let's just say you book 10 calls these people want done for you so there's six these people want done with you there's four these people usually you would have said no to you're like oh no no we just have an agency whereas you could still close 50% of these people which is two you could close let's say 50% which is three and now you have the done for you clients paying you the one to four K a month and you have these two consulting clients. Now why this is really interesting is because so your business is limited based on your ability to give offers. So if you have someone coming into your funnel and some of them are done for you done with you clients on consulting if you do a good job which I know you will you can bring them over to done for you so it's a foot in the door. So we have many people that will come to us that will look for a bit of consulting a bit of advice or they might ask us to play sales reps or whatever. We come in we do a good job and then we give them another offer on the back of it this works both ways. Even if a done which done for you client wants to churn let's just say they churn we could just say hey why don't you come back over to the consulting I know you're building a a team in-house let me just advise you because one constraint of your business is people will think that they can build it in-house always right so if you say sure build it in-house but let me advise you on this you're just gonna sign more clients you know and then this is how we're gonna go from the 6k to 10 to 15 to 20 because you are a master of what you do and they need to see that through that lens like your USP is content and that's why you can advise people on content without even lifting a finger with delivery so then what happens is you have this suite of clients you'll have 80% here 20% here 20% done with you and then maybe you might move from time to time but if we discussed in the beginning your biggest constraint is team imagine if we had a way to sign more done with you clients and then you have no constraint.

SPEAKER_00

And of course you need to help them and do some one-to-ones all that kind of stuff it's not infinitely scalable but it will allow you to get to the next level I think it was a super good idea going from done for you to done with you for the clients that are churning because happened to me like the first client they said like we are uh onboarding a content person on the team and she will do it. Yeah but she's not getting the same results and I was like they will come back or maybe not but I can offer them the don with you and I think that would they would be super happy about it. And then I have also adopt about selling the don with you because the times that I tried um it was for people that didn't have the budget to get the don for you. So I was like you don't have the budget maybe you can get the done with you but they didn't want to do it themselves.

Darren

How big are the c how big was the company? Like what was the general approach?

SPEAKER_00

So basically like wasn't very big companies maybe it was that they were mainly disqualified and I tried to sell them another thing but didn't make sense I I'm suggesting that the done with you should be done to the people that have actually the team.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

Darren

So when it comes to the qualification you're gonna need to have revenue as one how much money are they making two is

Maker Versus Manager Trade-Offs

Darren

goals how much money do they want to make or where do they want to get to in terms of lead flow three is going to be like willingness to invest like you need you need people that are going to invest so if they come in and they're like check check check but I already have a team cool done with you. But if they don't have the revenue if they don't have the goals if they're not willing to invest just don't hire them in general you know and I think that this is where you can feel bad about oh like it didn't work out and so on. But that's nothing to do with like a lot of the times it's not to do with you it's to do with your prospects. If they're not qualified and they're not willing to invest and they don't have the right goals then they're just not for you that that is a constraint of agency work which is why you always need to be focused on getting more clients doing the outbend and so on. Cool.

SPEAKER_00

So I think from here would be cool to go into the acquisition side sounds good so right now how do you currently get clients fully referrals so it's okay so if we look at acquisition yes acquisitions only made up of marketing and sales so talk to me about how you're getting clients if it's only referrals okay so basically they get amazing results like they really get good results so people around them start asking them about how they get that results and they recommend me and usually as they are similar to my actual target they have the budget and they are quite qualified so I'm working like with very big corporates in Spain thanks to referrals.

Darren

So what I would recommend here is if you want to really flex this muscle I would put together an outbound strategy for the referrals. So I would go to all of your clients and I would say hey we're gonna pay 25% of the referral in month one plus five percent in perpetuity so that means forever. So it's 25 plus five and then look they might not want the money because they're a big corporate but the person might so if you're working with let's say like a head of marketing or like a CMO something like this they would be referring to you. And if you if you want to do this right you have to teach your clients how to behave what I mean by this is you need to give them an SOP like literally an SOP on here is a message to send please send it in WhatsApp in this way and also please put me in the chat. So create a three-way chat so it's three way three way create a three-way chat with this person tell them we should give them a message introduce them give them even a a sample document that they can share and say we'll pay 25% on the front end and we'll pay 5% on the back end that will crush. So I agree my software company with this approach I literally went to everyone in my network and said hey we're paying 25% lifetime referral all we want is a three-way intro on chats and we'll give you the template to do when people do the template and it's done easy amazing now one thing I'll add in here is referrals are great and in general intros are good but sometimes they fall on deaf ears like I wonder how much referrals have you had that didn't close?

SPEAKER_00

Would you say it's 50% I would say that mainly like the my majority of them maybe not on the first touch but maybe on the reoff or something okay they like I would say 80% or something like that.

Darren

Close. Yes. Awesome okay so just a one way to kind of improve that is when you do get the referral make sure that you're connecting with other people in the company too you know so who else is there? So maybe that's on LinkedIn like doing like a LinkedIn outreach just saying hey I'm speaking with Jenny Jenny's giving us his intro right now to this person can we set up a call and you're always looking for the call option always. Now let's talk about the reoffers so this is only for referrals right now do you have people that have not signed up yet?

SPEAKER_00

Yes I have yes do you want to walk me through that next bit?

Retainers Plus Revenue Share

SPEAKER_00

Yes so basically there was a a very like big international company that uh launched their podcast and I wanted to offer them the Done with you because they already had the marketing team and it was like consulting and everything but uh I helped them like maybe in two sessions or something like that but they didn't bought the monthly consulting done with you.

Darren

Okay you gotta be careful a small bit though because you can't be consulting too much in chat or in calls because if you're overcoaching if they have any sort of team they'll go off and try to do it themselves. Is exactly what happened okay yeah I less than less I gave everything no nearly nearly everything and they were like okay we have team now okay look because a podcast or because content is public the best thing you can do is go check out their content.

SPEAKER_00

Okay and I do you do that I I did it because I was curious and they are doing some mistakes on their thumbnails and everything.

Darren

So the best thing you can do because it's public is you'll always be able to go back and reference that that content. So it's like hey I see you're putting out content that's great I saw that the views are between 10 and 20 views um I'd love to walk you through like a reoffer strategy okay okay so let's explain this concept for people too so re-offer strategy a re-offer basically is re-engaging with leads that booked the call didn't close and giving them a very bespoke offer that's going to help them to close. The reason why that's important is your leads inherently don't change and if they don't change we need to give them a way to change so that they take the next step with you. And the way the reoffer works is going to be based on proximity so what is a proximity that we can give them to you or your agency it's also going to be based on speed what is that specific goal it's gonna be based on duration how long do they work with you it's gonna be based on price that is a bit of a secret when it comes to the price what happens here is on the proximity we do want to increase that proximity. So if it's done for you you're gonna have a done for you offer plus consulting that will work really well because if it's a large corporation they're gonna want to see how you got the result and you're gonna get the result for them. Speed you got to focus on one specific goal so whether that's views subscribers revenue you need to really state that so proximity goes up speed goes up duration if they're already working with you and they're a little bit tight on money and and so on if you give them an offer for let's say 3k a month so let's say 300 3k 3000 what we could do here is you could do three months paid up front with a four month free so that means it would be 9,000 in total okay plus one free month. Why that's important is because they pay the money up front that cash is never ever guaranteed otherwise and lastly then perceived price goes down because they're getting more months right so they're getting more months in the door so the the price per month per month goes down it will actually go down like on average it will go down but they're still they're still paying the full whack so why that's really important is your prospects will finally feel like they're actually winning in the deal which is really important because you want to get them winning you'll get more money up front yes you'll give the one free month but then you're not going to have any issues does that make sense yes so how do you think about this now in the context of the clients you have yes I think that I I had to I have to try also because the reoffer concept is something that now I'm a little bit more familiar with but I I think if I did it or if I do it I got I will get results even offering just a little bit of peace or even nothing because if they have the same problem for like six months there's a moment in which they are going to buy but with this is even easier for them to to get the to do the move. The way that I think about the reoffer is it's kind of like if you imagine Batman Batman has a utility belt right he doesn't use all the stuff on his belt he uses them when he needs them so if you're giving an offer to someone and they're not closing oh let's use some more proximity could we add in a one-to-one if they're super fixated on fixing one goal so the goal could be let's say a design review they want to redesign everything let's get this done in seven days if they're a bit tight on cash or the time we add in this stuff. So you use it as you need to use it but it's really good because all offers will follow this strategy and they'll never not follow the strategy. This is like the only strategy you need to follow ever when it comes with it. So it's kind of like something that you just learn and once you learn it it's like riding a bike you can never forget it.

SPEAKER_00

And one question because if I do for them the consulting is easier like it's easy to get on the same mistake of giving them everything right like once they've been six months maybe I I start repeating myself because the theory is the theory true but I but you're trying to map it towards what they're actually doing.

Darren

So what I mean by this is if they have a specific goal and you're you're working towards that goal. That's why it's very important to be goal focused with your clients because the thumbnails are the thumbnails but the thumbnails they may not change but they mean a lot in the context of the overall business. Does that make sense? Yeah so the goal here is we need to get more referrals coming in we need to give the we need to give the reoffers ASAP so like as frequently as possible to those clients and then my last question for you then is on the the outbound so how else are we going to get leads into the funnel what are you doing right now to get more leads um to be honest I wasn't doing anything.

SPEAKER_00

But something that currently I'm more aware of is also that as all the clients came from referrals I'm used to work with a concrete type of client but maybe it's not the

Done-For-You And Done-With-You Offers

SPEAKER_00

best client. Yes yes or maybe there are other types of clients so when doing for example content or outreach um I think I would tend to go to the same style of client but maybe it's not the best or maybe I should like do a V test of like four types of clients or something like that.

Darren

Yeah so you're gonna have corporates who will come from the the referrals okay but there is a world whereby you open up your market a small bit so that you're able to attract other people as well. Does that make sense? Yes so the way that this is this is distributed is like this. So this mean distribution curve is how just the world works effectively. So you've A leads D leads and then in here you're gonna have B. So B, C, and then let's just say there is A and there's D. Okay. Never ever sell to D leads D leads are bro. Okay. The guys that come in that are A leads these are your core ICP but what you're marketing your marketing is going to attract C and B. In just because this is how the world works if 95% of the world is between this range it's gonna be so hard to attract anyone else right so part of this is understanding okay these corporates bread and butter this is like where you get your core client from where you kind of scale up your business. But maybe there's a world whereby we pull in these people who honestly will actually spend more money and they'll close faster because they're gonna be like two to ten people in team size especially here especially in here and these people will close faster.

SPEAKER_00

And also because with corporates it's like my Rev share is going to be low because they only want awareness and views.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So it's harder for me to grow the the ticket they are going to pay well but if I want to get a variable yeah it's going to be more difficult.

Darren

And then when they come in we can then work with them on the same basis whether it's like Rev share sorry retainer plus rev share you will be able to attract and I uh ideally understand what their revenue is what their money Ones are or where do they want to get to? And then you'll be able to give them the perfect offer. The retainer plus a Rev share. And then the other part was the consulting site as well, depending on whichever one you want to go to. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

Darren

So the last step is on the marketing is uh for you, how do you market your offer?

SPEAKER_00

Like my main statement.

Darren

Yeah, yeah. Then like how do you how do you present yourself online? Like, how do you present the offer online?

SPEAKER_00

So basically, my big like the statement that I use on social media and outside is like I help stagnated podcasts that are not growing to really have uh exponential growth.

Darren

Okay. So basically, you're you're you're marketing to the symptom. The symptom is not growing their podcast, but the root cause of not growing their podcast is revenue and leads. Because that's really what they want to get. Now, yes, they want to grow their brand for sure, but the growing your brand is a fancy way to say, I want to be famous. That's basically what it says. Yes, but at the end of the day, people don't want to be famous, they want to be rich. And to prove that, all you got to do is look at someone who doesn't have money. Someone who has money, they want clients, they want leads. So it's like at the from a Maslow's hierarchy of needs perspective, do you need to solve the leads and revenue problem? And then you grow what would be otherwise known as a brand. Now, for you, I would solve specifically how to grow your brand, increase your brand exposure, grow your podcast to get more revenue and leads. Because it'll go back to just solving the like the core of all human existence, which is health, wealth, and relationships. If we just focus on uh the brand, brand is actually often a relationship uh connotation because the brand is like, How well am I known? How well is my network? Like network, that will actually be quite problematic for you long term because you'll get lots of resistance from clients. Whereas if you say, Hey, we're going to grow this podcast to increase your network of credibility, but also to drive more leads and revenue, you're going to be in this position. And because they're super stressed, it also hits on their their their health side. Because if this is a worry for them, if you can relieve that worry through your marketing, super important. So I think that's where the the the front the front content for you is looking at, okay, here's how to drive more revenue and leads. Let's say it's from LinkedIn top-down, and let's say LinkedIn or IG, same thing, it's the same thing, right? It comes in through that through that process. And then depending on the ICP, they have the exact same problem. So Apple has the same problem as the coach that walks around Bali, which is revenue and leads. So that's where it's for me historically, I've always run one funnel that targets a range of ICPs that has multiple offers on the back. And like that's how you'll scale.

SPEAKER_00

I have to say that something that was difficult for me to sell was for the people that was like podcasting for hobby. And I was talking with Tiernan from the Boix team, and he told me, like, no, no, no, go to the revenue and leads. They must have some like business behind. They why are they spending so much time and money if they just want to do it as a hobby? They could go to the beach or something. Yes. And I try it on the call. And when he saw the prices, they he was like, oh, it's a little bit expensive, and that. And I focus on the leads that could bring the podcast to the to the business, and we end up closing.

Darren

So what you basically described exactly this issue. It goes back to problem awareness. People aren't inherently familiar with their problem. So when they say it's a hobby, they honestly just don't know any better. They don't know that a podcast or content can drive leads. They don't know this. They're down here in fantasy land where it's hobby. And they think this has to be a hobby because I don't make money from it. Because they could be talented at other stuff, but they just think

Referral Outbound That Compounds

Darren

the the brain will try to settle on an easy solution to prevent becoming aware. This is why generally people have low levels of awareness of the universe. I take another example. If I had to worry about everything that happened in the world, I would have nothing to go on to go on in my day. So that's the reason why you don't worry about some things, you don't bring it into your awareness. And that's what's happening here. It is your job through sales calls. So this is through marketing first. So marketing will make people aware. Did you know you could use a podcast to drive revenue? And then this guy goes to here. And then you say, okay, there's a lead magnet. So lead magnet, did you know there's a guide that helps you monetize your content on YouTube in here? And now he goes up. And then it's like we're offering a call, sales call, to help you monetize your content on YouTube. And now they're in here. Now they're on a call, and then this is where they get an offer. But it's your job through marketing, and this is why you need to turn on the marketing very heavy to make people aware that this is not normal. It's not normal to do this. And this is the reason why people need to hit the same message over and over again, which is what's the core problem that you're trying to solve for your prospects? And the more that we can hit that, the more we bring the leads up. Now, this is where it gets kind of a little bit scary. Because let's say right now you're down here and you're based on referrals only, making 6k a month. You have zero leads organic. Okay. You need to bring people through a problem awareness loop up to here. Let's say we bring in 100 people to here. As time goes on, this will this will go down 70, 60, 30, and then the people that get an offer could be 10. Now, my question to you is you can do all of this in a day if you did like paid ads, 100k a month on ads, which is obviously not what you're gonna do, or you can do all of it in a year, or you can do all of it in six months. And the problem is people wait too long to bring people in and to go through this cycle. It becomes like very, very, very problematic. So that's why you always need to be marketing. You always need to be bringing in new inbound leads, you need to pull people into your world because the cotton dry is that people will eventually just they'll fall out of the funnel.

SPEAKER_00

And one question, because about the marketing, is like I now started creating content and maybe like three YouTube videos I I've created and not published yet. But the thing is, like, I was focusing the marketing on you don't know why why your podcast is not growing, and these are the reasons, but maybe my marketing should be about you can get leads from your podcast. So I'm not I I'm not sure if I'm focusing my marketing on like the technical perspective. I mean, I'm I don't get very technical on the videos, but maybe I I should be more focused on get leads with your podcast.

Darren

See, the the the issue with your marketing was the exact issue I had, bear in mind, which was you were assuming your your leads know the problem. You assume that they know you're assuming that your leads are in the market to solve their problem. Whereas they don't even know they have a problem. It's my honest, honest uh opinion that people that are 400 pounds think that they're healthy. I genuinely believe that they think they're healthy because if they didn't think they were healthy, they would have done something about it. They genuinely believe somewhere in their brain that it's totally okay because they're not problem aware. And they either don't look at the look at YouTube health videos or they turn down their phone or that they're a different algorithm. In their brain, they've they've normalized being 400 pounds. In this equivalent, they've normalized just having a hobby. But it's your goal first to say, hey, did you know you shouldn't eat seven donuts? That's not good. Did you know you could use a podcast to get more leads? Then what happens is their brain goes from not knowing, so they're not knowing down here to knowing that there's a problem to then being in the market for a solution, and that's where we want people to that that's the buy. That's when they're gonna buy the offer. Okay, and uh what's so interesting about this is this can take a long time, a very long time, which is why you kind of need to start yesterday, yeah, you know, it's any it's ironic because it's like what I always think sometimes is you know, with with this, especially it takes a while to find your positioning, but I think it's way easier to figure out okay, are my leads aware that there's a problem? And then yes, no, and then if they don't, okay, what sort of content we need to create so that they realize that they have a problem.

SPEAKER_00

Okay,

Reoffers And Problem Awareness Marketing

SPEAKER_00

because I I feel like the problem they see is that their podcast is not growing, but maybe they don't see the problem of um you could be making money. So should should I put both messages in the same time like at the same time, or should I start with you your weight is 500 pounds?

Darren

This is the thing, right? So it's the concept of gap setting. There's a current state here, and then there's the future state. That's why for me, sales and marketing is basically the same thing. People have different opinions on that, but for me, it's basically the exact same thing. And what that means is they uh want a straight line to here, okay. Whereas we know the current state where their business and podcast isn't working in their future state is gonna go through this loop. And because it goes through this loop, what this means is we need to have the root cause here identified. So the current state is their podcast isn't growing, they're not uh they're not getting the next level, they're not able to fix what's going on in their podcast. That actually is a symptom. Symptom over here. I spell symptom wrong, but it's fine. That's a symptom. So a symptom is their podcast isn't growing. The root cause of that is wrong messaging, as you know, all those different things, okay. The consequences is up here. This is like everything that's happened as a result of the symptom not being addressed and the root cause not being addressed. And we need to we need to explain that with your prospects to create a plan. And that's a plan to solve it. So that actually this actually is the reality. And what's interesting here is when you look at the current state, you can go very detailed into the numbers, the data, the stats, the leads. Ideally, the more you know about the numbers, especially this is where I love sales calls, is because you can run through this. You can be like, hey, tell me about the numbers you have in your business and your podcast right now. So then we can identify, hey, the root cause is this you don't have the right messaging, you have the wrong equipment, X, Y, Z, you don't know what you're doing, knowledge gap. And then we can look at the symptoms. That's what you're that's what you're describing as the symptoms. And then we look at the consequences of that. So as a result, I'm looking to quit this podcast and you know, finish this. Okay, hey, let's create a plan, and then the plan is this. So your goal will always be about describing this concept on a sales call.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

Darren

Current state, future state, where do they want to get to? The reason why I focus so much on current state is because honestly, the future state's good, but a lot of times people don't know the people at the end of the day won't buy the future state because they've never been there. The example I give is it's kind of like trying to sell the mall dives to someone who's who's never experienced a beach before. It's like, yes, they want to go, but they can't feel it. Whereas if you know what it's like to be broke and to have no no no money whatsoever, well, then that's the biggest cause of them to change. And you go back into that feeling and it always works. That's how the brain works. The the brain is trying to protect you from um downside over and over again. Cool. Any final question before we finish up?

SPEAKER_00

No, super clear. I uh because I think that it's true, they are not aware that they could be having amazing results. Yeah, it's like they know that exists, but they are not really feeling that could be them.

Darren

Yes, it's like um it's like a relationship. If someone you'll find this quite interesting, um there's a there's a big in relationship psychology a lot of times why people go back to an ex that's like a toxic relationship is because they separate out the negative from the positive, and they've had so many negative experiences, it becomes numb to their brain. They numb the experience that they get one good positive experience, and they're like, Oh, I love this guy. You're like, I remember like why did why did we break up last time? But all the negative experiences get numbed. So if you've just had this podcast that hasn't worked time and time and time again, and you get one clip that works, you're like, Oh yeah, this is great, but you you fail to remember all of these bad like effects, and then it's part of like the sales process to bring people into awareness to say, hey, like it's not okay to be arguing every 10 minutes with your spouse. It's not okay to have a podcast that gets no views. Here's the roadmap, here's a consequence, here's a root cause. And look, it's gonna take some time, of course, but it but this these are the why I love these principles is because they're universal and they've never changed. So whether it's a relationship offer or a podcast offer, an agency, coaching or agency, it's the exact same model over and over again. Amazing. So thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it. Let's do

Final Principles And Next Steps

Darren

another video when you get to 30k a month. Okay, we get you to 100. From there. Thank you so much. How'd you feel?

SPEAKER_00

Amazing, thank you so much. It really gave me like a lot of clarity.

Darren

Yeah, yeah. We started very hard on delivery.

SPEAKER_00

Because I feel like on the done for you, like delivery is a lot of time. Is everything is everything is what stops you from creating a lot of content, creating like um another like marketing and well that's why we don't want to do the done for you content anymore.

Darren

It's because we know the delivery is so hard that I just don't want to do it. I just we've we've we've been doing it for so long, obviously. But I mean the idea for us to hire so many editors is so tough that I'm like, I'm just not bothered doing it, you know. Yes. Well, it depends where you are, what stages of business, but the rev share stuff, huge. The consulting, huge, and that's all under the one house. Trust me. These are the things that I said no to, and I regret it so much. Because also, when you teach, it's so easy to learn. You learn faster when you teach, yes, and then also you'll charge higher on the belly.