ADJUSTED welcomes the guests and podcast team to the sound booth to wrap up and reflect on season 2.
Season 2 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp.
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com
ADJUSTED welcomes the guests and podcast team to the sound booth to wrap up and reflect on season 2.
Season 2 is brought to you by Berkley Industrial Comp.
Visit the Berkley Industrial Comp blog for more!
Got questions? Send them to marketing@berkindcomp.com
For music inquiries, contact Cameron Runyan at camrunyan9@gmail.com
Hello, everybody and welcome to adjust it. This is our season two wrap up episode. I'm your host Greg Hamlin coming at you from Berkeley Industrial Comp. And with me today are all my co-hosts. So we'll go around the room and let each of you introduce yourself again, in case people missed your episodes that you helped out with. Let's start with you, Angie.
Angie Carlisle:Guys. My name is Angie Carlisle. And I am one of the regional resolution managers here at Berkeley Industrial Comp. I work with the catastrophic team here at Berkeley.
Greg Hamlin:Excellent.
Allison Marlow:Hey, everybody, this is Allison Marlow. I'm also with Berkeley Industrial Comp. And I'm responsible for the sales and marketing teams here. And coming to you from Birmingham, just down the hall from Greg.
Greg Hamlin:Excellent. Matt, you want to introduce yourself?
Matthew Yehling:Hello, this is Matthew Yehling, with Midwest Employers, casualty director of claims here and I'm in St. Louis, Missouri.
Greg Hamlin:Thank you, Matt. And then Mike,
Mike Gilmartin:Mike Gilmartin on the sales and distribution team at Key Risk, and I'm coming to you from Greensboro, North Carolina.
Greg Hamlin:And he left the claim side and went to the business development side, Mike,
Mike Gilmartin:I also find it hard to believe people missed my episodes. Okay, so I'm not sure why.
Greg Hamlin:Oh, that's great.
Allison Marlow:I love that he came to the dark side with with us, right. That's right. That's.
Greg Hamlin:That's great. We also have on today, and people haven't heard from her. But our blogger, Natalie is with us. So Natalie, could you introduce yourself to everybody?
Natalie Dangles:Hello, I am the Regional resolution manager in the Las Vegas, Nevada office. And I'm also the resident blogger.
Greg Hamlin:And we're so glad Natalie is on the team because she gives me an excuse to go to Las Vegas every now and again. So it's always nice, especially when it's cold. So and then finally, we have one other person who's in the background who tries to hide out and not take any credit. And that is Taylor Anderson Taylor, do you want to introduce yourself?
Taylor Anderson:Hey, Greg. Hey, guys, I am the the magic behind all of the podcasting. I produce adjusted, and I'm happy to be here.
Greg Hamlin:Thanks, Taylor. And she's coming from Colorado now. Right? Yes,
Taylor Anderson:I'm coming from Denver, Colorado. So
Greg Hamlin:Special thanks to Taylor, because without her I'd be a hot mess. So these episodes all sound good, because she's edited out all the mistakes that we've made. So thank you, Taylor. Well, I'm glad to have everybody with us today. I thought I'd just start by throwing out the question of what was your experience hosting at all? Have you guys renewed for season two? Season One I had Claire and with me. for season two, we went a different direction, and tried to change it up with different people from fellow Berkeley companies. And so I wanted to see what your experience was hosting. So maybe, Mike would start with you.
Mike Gilmartin:Yeah, I mean, I thought it was fun man. I mean, despite having to do it with you, I thought it was great. But it was a lot. I don't know if this sounds weird was a lot more normal than I thought it would be. I mean, it's just like having a conversation, obviously Taylor and folks do a lot of work behind the scenes. But to me, it was like having a conference call or having a having a, you know, discussion with friends or whatever it was. So I really enjoyed it. I tried to think of doing a spin off, but I don't think that's going to work. So I really had a good time. I thought the guests you had were great about some of the topics were really, really interesting. And it's you know, I'm excited to hopefully do a couple again next year, but it was it was great.
Greg Hamlin:Awesome. Yeah, I thought I thought Mike was great. He had the best questions that were on the fly. I think it's anybody that I've done. You know, I always have for the people who don't know, there's always a real rough outline of like, this is the direction we're going to go but it's not scripted at all. And so it's great when, you know, when people have actual genuine questions from what's going on in the conversation. I think that helped a lot. So appreciate everything that Mike adds. Matt, you you wrapped us up, you know, you made it through the first half and without a whole lot and then here at the end. I've had you super busy so well. How was it for you?
Matthew Yehling:Like Mike said that, you know, I really enjoyed it. I think people probably don't know we get on a little early and kind of try to get the nervousness out of people and talk through and make it So it's more conversational than, you know, interview, feeling. So I think that really helped myself and then just getting to know the people we were talking to a little more. And having that dialogue. More fluid was really interesting. Unlike Mike, Mike, I thought all the guests were really good. Guests were good. I thought all of them are good. I really enjoyed talking to folks across the industry and people I hadn't met yet. And yeah, I thought it was a neat experience. And if you have me back I'll come back and stumble through a couple more. If you name it, though.
Greg Hamlin:That's great. We definitely are going to do that. Man. I know, Matt has an interesting perspective, because he works for MEC. And so because they're doing access insurance, he sees some really big claims. So that was great on a couple of episodes that we had them on. For example, with Mo Kenney and prosthetics. You know, we might see one every now and then. But in his line of business he's talking about Yeah, I've seen 100 of these. So that's a little different. And that was a good perspective to have on the on the show for sure. So Alison, you're you're, like you said, just down the hall for me. How was it for you? This is, I know you're in marketing and business developments. But this is still probably a little outside of your normal day to day.
Allison Marlowe:It is, although I enjoyed it tremendously. I think one of the biggest difficulties is you and I would start to ask the same question at the same time. So we did together. I think we think too much alike and that way, but it was it was so much fun, and have an opportunity to talk to the individuals that we did and be able to bring some stories, especially about Kids Chance and TA's story to people. And the impact that that has on just every walk of life was just so much fun. I truly enjoyed it. And I'll put up like a note for myself to hope I can make it back again for season three.
Greg Hamlin:That would be awesome.
Mike Gilmartin:So are we gonna have some kind of competition, Greg are we gonna have like duke it out
Greg Hamlin:We just have some kind of
Mike Gilmartin:Criteria for coming back. Matt already got me and called me out for saying some of the guests were good.
Allison Marlow:Greg just wants a basket of mini muffins or something to pack on for next time.
Greg Hamlin:Hey, anybody that's gonna help me get stuff done on the team. You know, I'm having a baby. My wife's having a baby in February. So that'll be him on number six. So I'm living in a special world. So I will take all the help I can get and then some to keep my sanity. What?
Matthew Yehling:What's the gap in between your youngest now and this newborn?
Greg Hamlin:Yeah, it's it's definitely gonna be the crazy train. I'll have a set. I have a 17 year old this month, she turned 17 And then all the way down to zero. So it'd be 17 to zero. So it's a it's a special world.
Matthew Yehling:How old is Number five Right now?
Greg Hamlin:He is seven. He'll be eight in 2022 next year, so. So there'll be a little bit of a gap there on that last one. So I told my wife we're done after this. And she she keeps getting this little twinkle and right now we're really. So we'll see. We'll see. We don't want an
Mike Gilmartin:Can we do an entire podcast on how big your family? I think we should I'm up for it. I think that'd be I think that'd be good.
Greg Hamlin:You have to have my wife on that though. Because she's the one that keeps it moving. If it was for me, we would have burned this thing down a long time ago. Things always go awry when she leaves town. So I can keep it all going. But it's it's it's a little it's a little shaky. That's for sure. So well, Angie, I wanted to make be sure to get your take on things. Angie and I have been friends for a long time. We've worked together in a couple of different lives here and elsewhere. And so I know this was probably outside your box. You said that to me a few times. You're like Greg, this is just really outside my box. But how was it for you, Angie?
Angie Carlisle:You know it was and you do know me? Well, I remember when you approached me you were kind of had that look on your face. I was like, Oh no. He's gonna ask me something hard. I can feel it. But what's so funny is I was I was a little terrified. The first one I stayed up on thinking of what have I gotten myself into. But once you get on camera and Taylor's amazing, and it really does flow so naturally it is crazy. I agree with Mike it goes bad and it's just natural. You don't even think that you're being recorded. But the podcast has been amazing. I never seen a deep dive into different topics in the worker's comp arena, which is greatly needed. And I've had so many people tell me this is amazing. So I have loved every minute of it. I have loved getting to talk to different people in the industry. Yeah, surprisingly, I would do it again.
Greg Hamlin:Oh, I'm glad, I'm glad. Glad. So another person we've never got a chance to hear from is Natalie. So when when Claire made made the decision to move in a different direction, and we kind of changed up season two, I told Taylor and Alison, who were kind of where this idea started, that I wasn't sure I could do the blog by myself on top of all the podcasting that I might, it might not go well. And Natalie graciously stepped up and said, Hey, I'd love to do it, I'd love to get involved. So what people don't know is every episode of season two, Natalie has been hanging out in the background, listening, and then listening to it again, after it's been edited, to come together with a with an outline, and a little blog about what that episode was about. So what's up and like, for you, Natalie,
Natalie Dangles:It's been amazing. I mean, I listened to it several times, you know, throughout, and keep jotting things down, I have a system, you know, where I do my outline, and then go over it again. But I love it. I mean, it's, you know, it's just part of my schedule. And what I really love is just all the different facets, you know, there's certain episodes like the one with Louella, with the business engagement team. It's something about, you know, because I saw that happened from the first you know, when it first started, so it's so exciting, you know, to hear it on the podcast, because you remember being there, when interns were hired and how you know, where it was before and how it is now. So, you know, there's certain episodes of course, that really you can relate to like Carl Van with adjusters, you know, being an adjuster you can really relate to it, and some of the things that come into play with the 50 phone calls, and but it's just amazing, all the different facets, there's different subjects on everything, it's a wide. There's so many different things to cover and still cover. So I love doing it.
Greg Hamlin:Well, we I definitely appreciate you because I don't think Season Two would happen, or at least the pull on quit if you hadn't stepped down. So thank you for that. The last, the last person that I have to pick on one last time before we move on is Taylor. So Taylor, you've been on every one of these, and you're in the background. But you also know all the things that have gone wrong and have worked, and, and all the people who cause you the most editing. So I'm going to try to get you to confess who is the person who requires most editing?
Taylor Anderson:I will never confess to that, Greg guy, you guys, guys all do. I will say my favorite is when Greg messes up the intro, maybe five times before the episode airs. I mean, no one gets to no one gets to hear that. But maybe one time, I'll just let the listeners get a peek at how funny that is. But you guys have all been such great hosts. And we've had such amazing guests that my job has really been easy. When Alison came to me with this idea. In 2020. I was like, Oh man, I've never edited a podcast in my life. I don't know how we're going to do this. I don't know who's gonna do this. And, and Greg, so graciously was like, Heck, yeah, feet first, let's jump in and figure it out. So it's been an awesome, awesome ride. And I'm really looking forward to where we go from here.
Greg Hamlin:So there was a lot to learn. And none of us knew anything about this when we started. So Taylor's really self taught and had to figure out editing and how to do that and all the behind the scenes stuff. And in the beginning, even that first season, we had a bunch of ones that we couldn't use where things weren't working, right. So she's just been huge. So definitely wanted to highlight that because people don't get to see it enough. It's just in the background, but you're huge to what we do. Well, I want to just also to talk about season two. So as we were putting together season two, there was somebody who reached out to me through LinkedIn, and I think they're from Australia, if I'm remembering right in season one, and they said, you know, this is great, I love what you're doing. But we need more stories about the other side of things, not just the insurance side. And so for season two, we I really made a concerted effort to try to find people who had stories that were dealing with this that could talk about it not from only an insurance standpoint, but from some of the other points of view, whether that's somebody who's gone through an amputation, or someone who's overcome addiction through prescription drugs, someone who's you know, had to overcome a catastrophic loss. Kids Chance, organizations that are out there helping people on the other side of that, so I really wanted while we tackled some other topics as well, I wanted to make sure we covered some of those pieces because I felt like that was good feedback that there is is another story out there. And we need to highlight that too. And that can be challenging, obviously, because I would love to have all our injured workers on here, but not all of them, you know, there's HIPAA violate HIPAA concerns, and you have to make sure the employer is happy, and they're happy. And there's a lot of pieces to that. But we were able to tackle some of that, and I'm really proud that we did. We started this season talking about kids chance, Allison. And I know, You've known Dana for a long time. And Mike works with Dana, actually too at Key Risk. Who's been huge when it comes to keep kids chance. Allison, what's what stood out to you, as we talked about that organization and had a chance to chat with Dana.
Allison Marlowe:What's amazing about kids chance is they're paying attention to the family members of the injured worker too. So it's not the of course, getting the injured worker back to a productive lifestyle and a healthy lifestyles, most important thing that our adjusters are doing, we also need to be thinking about the impact it has on their families. And so learning about the organization and the fact that they focus so heavily on making sure that there's scholarships available to help children, workers that have been either killed or severely injured, to be able to go to college and to have a productive life and to to be able to have that kind of support. In the midst of all the turmoil that's going on in their homes. I think that's just it, just an amazing organization, amazing message and very hopeful that from our podcasts, more people learned about the organization, because I think that it's got so much potential to continue to grow. It's grown tremendously from what I learned during our podcasts from Dana. And I'm just looking forward to seeing where things go next. And hope that we can see other Berkeley companies, embrace it more and take it on to some other insurance companies out there to be promoting out whether it's on podcast or on social media, or in the web sphere, whatever it is such an important organization. So I really enjoyed that one was a lot of fun talking to Dana. And she has a lot of passion for it. And I think she was a perfect person to bring on to tell us about it.
Greg Hamlin:I completely agree. And you know, the world can't have enough good people doing good things. And that's one of those organizations that really is. And so it's great to learn more about it and leaves people can get involved. Mike, your prime time came when we when we talked about bridging the gap between claims in and agencies and insurance on the underwriting side. And little did I know that shortly thereafter, you would bridge the gap and go over to business development.
Mike Gilmartin:I took it very literally, Greg, very literally, okay, no,
Greg Hamlin:Right. But what stood out to you on that. And I guess you probably even have more perspective now and the role that you're in?
Mike Gilmartin:Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's not rocket science. It sounds very cliche, but we talked about it a lot on the podcast about communication and not being siloed. And I think there's so many companies, we talked about one earlier that a lot of us came from where it's quite siloed, you know, like, underwriters don't know, the claims folks claims folks don't know the underwriters claims, folks don't know the agents. And it's a real travesty, because you should be getting the people that that service the agencies, and are the experts in front of the agents as much as you can, where it makes sense. And I just think, kind of knocking down some of the silos making sure that underwriters and claims folks are talking to each other consistently having those conversations, talking about accounts, talking about agencies, it goes such a long way in being able to service our agents and partners better. And I see it from my side now, too. I mean, I was always a big proponent, and on the claim side about, you know, making sure that we know who our agencies are, we know what their expectations are, everything is outlined for us so that we can deliver a good product. But you know, I see it even more now on the other side, in that, you know, it's it's fine to have somebody talking to an agent. But if you're asking claims questions, why are we not introducing the claims? I'm really having building that relationship. So I think there's a lot of work still to be done in our industry as a whole on on this topic, both at Berkeley and other places, and I think we do it fairly well. But those were the biggest things for me, it was just passing early communication and then kind of breaking down those silos and getting to know the folks you work with the agencies you work with. It sounds simple, but it's not done a lot
Greg Hamlin:I think you're exactly right. And I you know, coming from some of my experiences other places I that was a challenge. And I think when you understand what, how it all connects, whatever your role is, you make better choices, you make better decisions, when you understand if I do this, it's impacting that over there. And that's that's definitely missing. You know, one of the episodes Mike that you also were on was a friend of mine from Kentucky, who talked about his very candidly talked about On his struggle with addiction, and pain medicine, and then eventually illegal drugs. And I, I, to me, I guess I was just so impressed with how open and candid was about something that was really difficult to talk about. Mike, what was your thoughts? In our in our discussion with Alex?
Mike Gilmartin:Yeah, I mean, I think you know, you and I spoke a little bit on the podcast, but having some first hand experience with this family wise, and I, this one kind of blew me away a little bit. It was, it was an unbelievable conversation. He, yeah, how candid he was was, was quite amazing. But he said some things that stuck with me in thinking about, like, how I kind of dealt with it personally, a couple of things he talked about were, you know, when we were talking about, you know, people want to, or people need to want to get help in order for it to make sense. And his point was, who doesn't want to have help, right? Like, no one's sitting there saying, I love what I'm doing. I don't want to do this. I thought that was very interesting to sit back and think about and then the other one was just how family members and folks around people that are struggling with addiction react. And I think he said something to the phrase, like, whatever you're saying to me, I already feel about myself and more. And I think it's really hard for people to take a step back and really think about, you know, yeah, this person is upsetting you or this person is making it so that you're worrying about them all the time. But they're worrying about themselves. So they're not doing it for fun. Yeah, right. I mean, I think we assume most people, they get into addiction, just kind of do it off a whim or it's recreational. And I mean, shoot his started his story started with what I think a surgery, yeah, it was routine surgery. That went wrong. And so I think it just, it was really, really interesting for me to listen to him talk and kind of take some things away from that, that maybe I would have done differently. You know, earlier in my life with folks that I, you know, I dealt with, and I think he probably had the same reaction I did. He said some things that for sure, kind of flipped the script for me on how I looked at addiction and those suffering from addiction. Oh, it was it was pretty unbelievable.
Greg Hamlin:I completely agree. And I've thought about it a lot, even since that episode. In fact, just I think it was last week. And I have a brother who has, you know, family, not on my side, but on the spouses side that struggling with some things. And, you know, he had said, he was trying to help this person and cleaning their house and getting him set up to be coming home from hospital and another family member was like, we can't do any of that we need to have tough love. And I was thinking back to Alex's conversation about that, like how hard it is to go through this. And it's easy. It's easy to feel both ways. But I think I learned a lot just listening to him and what and what his experience was that, you know, all you can do is help at some point, you hope that they get to a place where they're ready. But it was definitely impressive. Allison, so then taking it the other direction. We talked to Timothy Alexander TA, who's probably the most inspirational person I've met in person in my life. And he told his story from being a division one potential highly sought after football recruit, to becoming a paraplegic, and what that was like, what stood out to you, I know you've met him before too Allison.
Allison Marlowe:So with lots, so a TA every time I meet with him, you walk away, just inspired. I mean, there's no nothing else that you can say, Besides, you're fully inspired from meeting with him. His attitude is amazing. Considering what he's been through and what I really took away from what he told us, it's a little different spin on, on conversations we've had with him before the importance of that whole health. It's one thing to get your physical health back, it's a whole nother thing that you've got to get your mental health back in order to truly reach 100% whole healing. And the fact of the matter is, when you're a situation like he is being wheelchair bound, reaching whole health may never be completely possible. But you've got to be in that right mental spot that you're gonna keep going at it and not give up and and believe that you can reach that at some point. And so that message release really stuck with me the empathy that I think sometimes gets lost in translation where people are just like, Oh, you've just got to get your back on your feet, get back on your feet, get back on your feet. It's there's so much more than just getting back on your feet. And the support going back kind of dovetailing to what you guys were talking about a minute ago, the support network that's around you. Sometimes you have to make those hard choices as an individual who's who's been injured or as the person that that suffering because you can't allow yourself to be pulled down by the people around you if they are not being supportive of you. So that was just something that really resonated with me that took away from talking to him this time he, you know, he always is pushing himself. He's always looking to continue to grow and he refuses. And when he finds himself starting to slip, he kicks himself in the butt. And it's just, it's just he's an amazing guy. And I hope that everybody enjoyed talking or listening to the podcast as much as I enjoy being part of that one. Because he's a, he's a special person.
Greg Hamlin:He really is I was just so struck, you know, he comes across, he's probably the most positive human being I've ever met, you know, in that, you know, for somebody who's had so many challenges like he is just, and I remember thinking he's got to have down days. And when he was talking, and I asked him that question, he was talking about slipping in the shower and falling down in the YMCA and trying to get back up and falling back down and falling back down. And finally, just like laying there on the floor, crying for a minute, I just felt like, oh, my gosh, and he's like, but then I just stopped that slow down, I thought, I thought if I do these things, I can get myself back up. And I can get. And I just thought, you know what a great example of even when things get tough, and we want to give up, you know, you can still you can still slow down and think. And there's a way forward. And but for somebody, I mean, anybody who hasn't met him, the guy smiles like all the time all the time.
Allison Marlowe:I mean, you just look at him and you feel happy. And you feel like you can do anything. And he just he never gives up. And that's a he's a great individual.
Greg Hamlin:Absolutely. So for their Allison, we talked about adapting to change in the marketplace. And this was fun. So he had the chance to interview interview our president Chan Cox. And I remember when I interviewed with him over three years ago, for this position that I'm in now, and I was so impressed with him, then we're unique and that a lot of the Berkley companies were created by by WR Berkley, the operating units, ours was not actually a Key Risk is not too so I know, Mike's company is also somewhat similar in that way, we were acquired. But what's even more unusual is that chan started the company and then remain president and still is today. And his story I thought was pretty neat. Allison, what's what stood out to you in that?
Allison Marlowe:Well, I love hearing Chan tell our story, first and foremost, because he he's seen a little bit of everything over the 30 plus years, that he's been at the helm of this organization, what really stood out to me how he recognizes the transitions the industry has made, and the importance of not being complacent in our industry, in order to continue to grow and to continue to be relevant, was really what was struck me that he's really focused on especially as he's looking at kind of more of the tail end of his career. He wants to make sure that he's leaving this organization in such a great spot. And realize is that we've had to evolve, the industry has evolved, and we've had to evolve, we've had to embrace technology that I'm sure back when they started the company, they never even imagined that they were going to have to use technology to keep up with claims. Everything was probably in in folders and in a filing cabinet. And so just listening to his story, listening to his history, and how, where he started from the importance of getting more use as they're graduated from college, interested in the insurance industry, and how we can make it relevant to those individuals. All those things kind of stood out to me because he's just so positive. And he's a great leader for our organization and wants to leave us in a great place. And so I appreciate that he pushes us down that path.
Greg Hamlin:You too, I was impressed the first time I met him with his integrity. And I remember coming home for the interview and told my wife, I said, that's a guy I wanna work for because I know he's going to do me, right. And then his ability to adapt and change, which is hard. It's hard for me. So the longer you do something, the harder it is to change and he's changed things multiple times Drastically to not get left behind. Exactly. That's impressive to me because it takes guts. It takes a lot of courage to do that. So well. That was that was a an excellent conversation. Mike. So you and I talked with Randy Baker, from MedCall. And that was an interesting discussion. I know that's been a topic that's been out there for a while is how will telemedicine change the industry? You've known you probably knew Randy, before I did, Mike is I think he's from your neck of the woods. What stood out to you Mike as we chatted with him.
Mike Gilmartin:Yeah, I mean, Randy's just a very like captivating and charismatic guy to talk to. I could listen to him speak for hours. But I think what strikes me the most is probably not what he wanted to highlight, but his struggle to get people to use telemedicine is real. And I think work comp is very real. And it's, you know, it still baffles me. I mean, I think he made the point of, you know, he's talking to a supervisor or manager of a company and they say, Hey, if I gave you a choice to go to an ER, or to call emergency metaphysician and be talked to within five minutes which would you pick, and they would all pick telemedicine and his point was, well, why wouldn't you want that for your employees? So I think or what makes them any different? Why would they want to go to an ER and so I think that's a that was a big takeaway from me. And then the other one was just their model and how they utilize it. So I always thought of telemedicine as you call in, and you like get luck of the draw of like, what kind of doctor you talk to, like, you know, like, like the school nurse or like you go into a stomachache, you know, here's an ice pack of I go back to, you know, go back to work or go to school, and the fact they use they're all board certified physicians. And one of the big points he made was, you know, when you're on the phone with us, it's not only us telling you what to do, it's us telling you what not to do for an injury to make sure yes, kind of in the best shape it can be in getting to the hospital. And that kind of blew my mind. The first time I talked to Randy, he gave that story. And I've known Randy Yes, since MedCall was just starting. But that's really what stood out to me for that one. In talking with Randy
Greg Hamlin:They're an impressive organization and one that we've gotten a lot of benefit from specially with our remote workers who are out in the field, and they just keep the can't get to a doctor quickly. Which has been important. So from there, Mike, we went right on to data driven decision making and we had the chance to interview our actuary, which normally sounds like probably the most boring thing you could possibly do is talk to an actuary about numbers. But I've always enjoyed Matt, I feel like he's a kind of a different duck when it comes to actuaries. So I can say all kinds of things because he's not on here. So Mike, what what was your thoughts in our discussion with with Matt on that?
Mike Gilmartin:Yeah, I was hoping he'd be on here. I think I blacked out for that episode. There were so much just like exuding, his brain, like five times, I think in the podcast that like he just thinks in a different level than we do. Yeah. And I think the word I think the phrases like dirty data, and sexy data all came out within one podcast. I, it was pretty amazing. I think the biggest thing that stood out to me and it was a question that we both asked him, Have you talked about, like dirty data and making sure that the the numbers you're looking at, you know, tell you what you want them to tell you and that you have the right data in there and the right information. And that all starts with a culture in a workplace. So like having a culture and a mindset, from everybody from the top down to the person inputting the information that this is really important. And it makes a difference in the decisions we're making on a daily basis was a big thing to talk about. And I, you know, I know you went in pretty deep with him on your predictive modeling and listening and talking about that was interesting, but just the culture of being a data driven culture was what was really interesting to me, Doug Reineke, US pushes that alive and sounds like Matt does as well at Berkley, Industrial Comp, but making sure everybody understands that the little things they do on a daily basis, that feel they have to fill in are those numbers they put in, you know, in this spreadsheet, makes a huge difference in the decisions that people are making and the overall data and analytics that you have as a company. And I thought that was a good reminder to me, and it's kind of everybody to take a step back and understand it goes beyond data. But what you do on a daily basis makes much more of a macro impact, than you think it does. And that's really what I took out more than anything. So
Greg Hamlin:I completely agree. And he's somebody you could I could talk to for hours about this stuff. I probably, again, won't understand half of it, but I will.
Mike Gilmartin:My brain ould hurt man, if you met that guy for more than we did. I think my brain was certainly.
Greg Hamlin:Right. But it's definitely well worth checking on. And we actually got a lot of feedback on that. And I think there are several different comments of people who really were interested in what he had to say on that. So it was a good was a good episode. From there. We talked to Carl Van and that actually, Matt Murphy was actually the one that co-hosted that one with me. He couldn't make it today. But I know Matt Yehling when he listened to it, that one of the things I saw in a comment so I'm gonna put him on the spot was every adjuster needs to hear what this guy said in this episode, that this stuff's golden. So Matt, what made you think about or what impressed you when you you heard that episode?
Matthew Yehling:I mean, we talked about this later, on one of the future episodes, I mean, so much of it's common sense and how you would like to be treated. And unfortunately, I think across the industry, we fall prey to this ourselves. We we dehumanize things and you know, Carl, Carl did a great job of just kind of stepping back and his story of really how he created the process and how he he really developed it from nothing within the work organization he was with and then. And then he started developing it and took it, took it on the road, basically, and then started his own company and wrote books about it. And, you know, it was just a, you know, when you look back at it, you're like, what, none of this is really any, anything that's not common sense, like, but we don't do it. And I don't know why so. So his approach and just like, you know, not having formed sound like their legal documents, you know, and I think we talked about that in one of the other, you know, adjusting with empathy too. But, you know, it was just so much stuff that, you know, I went, I went back, I've read, I read his book, probably years ago, I went back online and bought another copy. And I was like, I'm gonna have all my managers read this again. Because, you know, it's just, you know, just common sense. Claims one on one stuff that, you know, we get away from, and it's really, you know, really good stuff. So, I would recommend anyone, anyone out there, if you have not read that book, if you're a manager or supervisor, and, you know, or an adjuster, go by his book, you know, and read it and start applying some of his principles, to your day to day claims operation, and you'll see immediate benefit to, you know, to the organization that you're working for working with. I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not a paid endorsement for Carl Van. It's the best one that that I've read that relates to what we do every day. So yeah,
Greg Hamlin:I agree. I agree. And I ran
Mike Gilmartin:Put a Carl Van poster behind you, man.
Matthew Yehling:That's another thing people don't know. We can see each other. So yeah, but that's that's another Carl Van poster behind me.
Angie Carlisle:Matt, I'm with you on this. I've been in claims for 15 years. And I had the opportunity not only to we'll see part of his organization at a conference that to do his study, it was like a I think it was like a maybe eight hour class that you can take bits and pieces of like, not using the claims hammer, you don't even realize you do it sometimes and as as an adjuster. But yeah, but that but all of that was so exactly what you said it was completely common sense. But the way he does like the math on the phone calls is amazing. He's like, just pick up the phone and answer. It's customer service for everybody, including yourself, like you're helping yourself as an adjuster if you just answer the phone. You've, save yourself. tons of time. So yeah, he's amazing. I agree. I'm gonna if you find a poster, tell me I'm gonna pick one.
Greg Hamlin:So I and I did the same thing you did, Matt. Actually, as we I got that for my managers. And even the one that's over our Business Engagement Team Read it, she read it on the airplane coming back from Las Vegas, and she says I mean its, short, doesn't take any time to tear through. And she said, this is the best thing I've read on on leadership and what I should be teaching my people how to do so. And Natalie is holding it up too. So yeah, for sure. If you haven't checked it out, you should. There's a lot of good stuff there. And I again, I ran into him when I was working for Liberty. They actually hired him to train the different offices on negotiations.
Mike Gilmartin:I have to say he came in and spoke right to us. And he's a calculated guy, especially in person. Yeah, he like makes you he'll like make you do a skit, like impromptu with him. And it's a little nerve wracking. But yeah, he's just as captivating in person as he is in his book.
Greg Hamlin:I remember when he came and visited, and I thought, wow, that's the best training I've ever had from somebody you know, who's traveling. And of course, anytime you're an adjuster, and you have to leave your desk to go to training, you're like, Oh, I've got work to do. And I'm going to this training. And I remember that, and so definitely something for a resource for people to check out. And from there, we went totally down a different direction into something I didn't even know existed. This was with Angie on virtual reality pain treatment. And I was like, this is the biggest out there idea I've heard of, but I want to learn more. Because I don't know anybody who's doing anything like this is you what were your takeaways from Harvard Med Tech and the virtual reality pain treatment.
Angie Carlisle:I thought this was the neatest story and he was such a humble man. I've worked with lots of doctors in my history because I am a nurse as well as an adjuster. And he just it's interesting. He saw a problem in the hospital where he was seeing people in pain who were taking pharmaceuticals or taking these pain medications who are just they don't get any better. The pain levels are the same. It's you know, in there eventually have to get on more narcotics, he saw problem and then created a solution and so he dug into the whole brain and how you're or you know, your brain, what happens to your brain when you're in pain? And he dug into that. And then instead of, of, you know, throwing medications or injections or anything he he thought, You know what I'm going to educate on why your brain, what happens when you're in pain, what happens to your brain? I'm going to teach them so they know firsthand what happens. So then they can understand why this virtual reality system works. It was actually amazing. And it's in, you know, I had the same thought I was like, okay, so this is like that you put on your phone, and I'm gonna watch some birds, right? No, it was completely amazing. So I watched the one where it actually goes through what happens to your brain, when you're in pain and how distraction actually works. And the science is behind it. He has, he has all the science behind it. And what's so great about this is he also this company, it's not just we send you this virtual reality machine, you use it, they actually couple you with this behavior health clinician. So, you know, the adjuster is involved, the injured worker is learning about pain, and then using the distraction device to help decrease the amount of pain they're in and find alternate ways to cope with that pain. And then the Behavioral Health Commission is calling them weekly to see how are you doing and to make sure that what the progress is the reporting that back to the adjuster, the treating physician can be involved, and the nurse case manager can be involved. So it's this beautiful circle of communication with the patient man in the middle. So I
Greg Hamlin:With the graduation. That's what I loved. I was like, Okay, so there is a date that we are working towards. And that was awesome, too. Because you know what's hard when you're an adjuster, if there's not documentation that makes it hard, if there's not an end date, that makes it hard. So understanding what the goals are and having timeframe set for those goals.
Angie Carlisle:It was I was like,
Greg Hamlin:Yeah, you get what you're trying to, it's wonderful. So we went, we went from there, and I and there was a request to talk about Medicare compliance. And I thought nobody's going to co host this with me, because all anybody in the industry who's on the clean side, who asked you with Medicare is not is not going to want to do this. And I thought, well, Angie reports to me, so she'll probably say yes.
Angie Carlisle:And I was like this topic. Come on, this is going to be a snoozer. That's what I thought it
Greg Hamlin:Heather is awesome. Awesome. So for anybody who is for anybody who hasn't worked with Heather Schwartz, she does her own blog on Medicare. Again, if there's work comp enthusiast that there's certainly Medicare enthusiasts, so we're somewhere in this universe. And she's found them. But she does such a nice job out of Florida, and really was with a big organization, but now is independent. And I would just encourage if anybody gets stuck on Medicare to go find her, because she can make complicated ideas simple. And Medicare's complicated. And I'm simple. So I need somebody who could break it down like that. And she does a very, very nice job. So from there, Matt had to kick it into high gear and help us wrap up the season with with two episodes. The first was adjusting with empathy. And this was special to me, because this is something we've been working on now. Something I've been working on for five years in an idea form, and more practical in the last year. And so Matt, you you were able to take part in that what what stood out to you in that in that episode?
Matthew Yehling:I mean, you guys have been doing a lot of good things. And, you know, you have your staff doing, you know, the cookies for injured employees, which seems really, you know, kind of corny, but I'd like it, you know, we talked about, you know, if what would happen if you sent, you know, a lot of these injured employees, flowers, right? And it's like, well, the population of your injured employees leans a little more, you know, male collar, you know, high, high salaried men, you know, doing some dangerous things. So it's like, well, they're probably not going to appreciate the flowers, but then the example that forgive me, I don't remember if it was Angie, or Natalie or, or Hope that gave about knowing the guy so well that she knew he was diabetic, and she's like, we're still going to send them cookies, but I'm gonna give them the sugar free cookies, and then how he responded and, you know, the example of just you know, being, you know, knowing your injured employee that well, and still going forward, and then, you know, just the general authentic response people had to, to that and, you know, we talked about, you know, the term like claimant that personally like that's offensive to me, and that's been a thing. You know, I've been pretty Teaching to my own staff. And, you know, when we do our own webinars and WebEx is with our clients, and that we broadcast externally, like I had an actuary and actuarial person come over to me and say, Hey, will you review this and like I was reading it for his presentation, I'm like, You need to take this word up, because it's offensive, like, you know, it's, it's an injured employee. So just changing that, and being more empathetic, it starts like, across the board, and just these simple ways of how we treat people in the industry, how we treat people from, you know, underwriting and sales and marketing, and, you know, you guys are doing that stuff. And I'm really happy to see that, you know, where, where I sit in the, the processes is a little further down the chain. So, you know, we don't deal directly with the injured employee population. But, you know, the things you do at the beginning, that that in treating, treating injured employees with empathy and treating them that way, I think will will have a positive impact throughout the life of the claim. And hopefully, I'll never have to see that file, you know, in 10 years, when excess reportable are now in excess claim because something went wrong, you know, down the line. But, you know, those are a few of the things that came out, that stuck, stuck out to me, I think Natalie was on that one as well. And she, you know, she gave the example of, you know, just rewriting some of the form letters that we're guilty of sending out. And, you know, I love all the defense attorneys and people that we work with, and I, we have several of them in this building here. But I, like you can make the legal document not sound so legal, easy, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, so just rewriting that the script and rewriting, you know, that and thinking of it from the injured employees perspective, I think, again, these aren't earth shattering, you know, brown, groundbreaking ideas we're doing here, it's like, how would we like to be treated? You know, when you're injured, what do you like to receive, you'd like to receive acknowledgement, you'd like to know somebody's caring about it, you know, a cookie in the mail, that's always a good thing. So it's these small things, small things done well, that make all the difference. So I applaud you and the other organizations that are taking that approach. And there's, there's only a handful that I see out there doing it, I deal with, you know, organizations across the country, and I applaud the ones that do it well.
Greg Hamlin:I appreciate them that it's near and dear to my heart. And I think one of the greatest lessons I've learned the last few years, not just in comp, but just in my own life is to pause when people are upset, listen, and put myself in their shoes instead of react. And that just takes lots of practice. And it's really hard to do. But the better we get at that, the better we can bridge the gap to help people get where they need to go and where they want to go. So that's, that's a big deal to me. And then, from there, we we talked about our other big ideas. So you got both the big ideas, Matt, that were Berkeley industrial. And that was our business engagement team. And we had the chance to talk to Luella, who is running that department in our, our company? What were your thoughts on that? Matt?
Matthew Yehling:I think I think what you're doing there is really the approach that we need to take across the industry. Because when we think about, you know, a large segment of the adjuster, and the industry population going to be retiring and changing and, you know, their whole organization, the whole industry is really changing, and we're gonna see a lot of people retiring. So, you know, we didn't really talk a whole lot about that there. But I think the approach that, that you're doing there, by incorporating, you know, all these underwriting type touchpoints, all these claims, touchpoints, and sales, marketing, whoever, you know, having somebody physically answer the phone, and you're really to me that that role is like the training ground for the future adjuster, the future analyst that you're going to have within the organization. And if, you know, we talk about a career path, you know, people always think it's like, oh, I'm going to be in this role, or it used to be you were going to be in this role for, you know, a year this role for two years this way. And then I'm going to be a supervisor and then a manager. And while it doesn't always work that way, and I think if if we've kind of pulled the people that are with us on the phone, like we probably never, it was never direct, right? But so having that kind of broader introduction to the organization helps because you might realize, you know, what, I really don't want to get into claims but underwriting is interesting or I want to do something more into sales or more into marketing. So it's a it's a really neat approach. I again, you know, having the live person answer the phone and address people's problems and concerns immediately. So, you know, so common sense, and we got away from that, you know, but it's just the simple thing we've done well, again, and, you know, you're going to solve so many problems early on in that cycle that helped people like Mike, when he's going out to write the business, you know, or you're all of us, you know, the adjuster down the road, and then you're treating people with that respect, responding to him immediately. You know, again, I kind of was joking with her about, like, how do you where do you find these people? And, and, you know, how do you, you know, like, you know, how do you keep them because I would, I would think, like, my organization needs, stuff like that. And I'm like, if I had a pool of, you know, 7, or 8, 10 people doing that, I'm like, those, here's my training ground for people. And that's where I'm going to promote from within and grab people. So I really like what you're doing there, I think it's a model that, you know, probably will definitely be replicated, and is, again, you know, back to some of the ideas that worked well, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago, and we're just, you know, almost recycling some of these ideas, and just having the human component again, and bringing that back in, in a new in a new fashion in the new way.
Greg Hamlin:And I know, Mike has seen this, and you've seen this, I think the hardest part about training people in claims is when they come even if they're bright, smart, have some kind of background, they just don't like they gotta be trained on everything. Like they really don't come with a skill set ready to help. And it takes a year before I always say before an adjuster is starting to become helpful that first year there are dead weight drag on everybody, because they're learning. They're learning everything. So they got to ask people questions. And that's the only way you can learn. But then if you get a year in, and let's say they just get to that point where they're starting to be helpful. And then they leave, which I think each of us has probably seen that. That's hard. It's hard on your department, because you're like, I just got him there. And now we got to start this over. So I'm glad that you, you appreciate what we're trying to do there. The last topic we hit on, was overcoming an amputation. And Angie actually has met this person as well. He's a friend of mine from when I lived in Kentucky. His name is Mo Kenney, and he runs a company called Kenney Orthopedics. And he told the story. Well, Angie, you met him before Matt and I did or at the same time you and I did. What was your impressions of Mo.
Angie Carlisle:Now I thought he was great. He took a personal experience again, and you know, went out with his his motive was to help other people in the same situation. So Super Down to Earth. He takes every thing that he does, it can give therapeutics from his own experience and from talking to other amputees, where, you know, it's real life, it's situations, this is what happens when you're shrinking a stump. And I mean, like real life, this is the pain. This is what it feels like. This is how it can be countermeasured to creating, you know, these prosthetics for people that he knows, he knows where they've walked, so he can incorporate here, I'm gonna give you this tool to help you get back to life. But I also know where you are psychologically with it. I thought he was great.
Greg Hamlin:Yeah, he's, I mean, so those who haven't listened to episode, he was seven years old when he was someone ran him over, and he lost his leg. And then went on to get a degree in psychology and then went on to get go to Emory to study prosthesis. And now he runs Kenney Orthopedic, which is an Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, and helps other people learn how to walk, learn how to use an arm or a leg that's been amputated. And it's just, I mean, the kind of person who could go through that tough experience and then decide I'm going to spend the rest of my life helping other people do those things. To me is incredible. Matt, what was your thoughts? You were my co-host for that one as well?
Matthew Yehling:Yeah. So this is one where, you know, we talked to Moe twice. And, you know, the second time was great, you know, the recording the first time unfortunately, no, you know, as probably me moving around in my chair too much. So, but, you know, so we Yeah. So we, you know, we had the pleasure of speaking to him twice. And there's so much information from Moe about the topic of amputation, and he nailed it down, you know, saying like, look, there's only 6000 prosthetists in the country. And then then he was putting it in perspective, like, there's 125,000 physical therapists, there's 1.2 million lawyers, you know, so he's like, You know, putting it in perspective of, you know, there's, it's a very specialized field. You know, he, I think he quoted, there's 2 million amputees out there, when you add up, you know, upper lower, you know, amputees. And, you know, he knows this that, you know, he knew the numbers, you know, his personal story and personal, like, rationale of how he got into this. And how he connects to people is, you know, a powerful testimony, what he does, and his volunteer organization, we didn't really get into the second time around, unfortunately. But now he, you know, he's, you know, he really gives back, you know, not just locally in those three states where he physically located, but he talked about going overseas and go into places where prosthetics weren't readily available, and, and helping, you know, getting people back to a functional state. And I think that's where our focus on, you know, when we spoke to him was, how do you get somebody back to a functional state? And, you know, his story is, is really great. You know, and I think he would basically tell you, right, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said something to the effect of, you know, trying to get out to the prosthetics office, try to get, see what they're doing, see why it costs $20,000 for that device, it's not just the device, it's the 15 appointments. You know, it's the prosthetist the 10, physical therapy appointments associated with it, the fittings, the refitting the RE re fittings. So, his his approach and perspective, it's so informative, you know, he had so much information, and we were just really scratching the surface, I could talk to him all day about, you know, what he what he does, what he's seen over the 47 years since his amputation, the societal changes, we barely scratched the surface on any of the things with him. So just a true treasure trove of information. And, you know, I thought it was, it was great hearing him. And I felt like it was hard to ask him questions, because I just didn't want to interrupt him to miss what he was going to say, yeah, like, and that's exactly what like, where we wanted them to go was down that path. So I sure it was probably the fewest questions we asked anybody, honestly, because he just kind of really was because he just would go with it.
Greg Hamlin:Yeah. Well, he's, he's his organization special to me, and that my friend was an amputee while I was in Lexington, Kentucky. And I remember the day his mom called me from the hospital saying, you know, my son's legs amputated, been amputated. And I don't have the ability, she had a son with special needs. She said, I can't go pick them up and my husband's working. And I've got nobody who can go pick them up. And so I remember driving to the hospital with him and helping him into my car and driving him home and thinking, like, This guy needs someone who can help them and I'm not equipped. And I called Moe and his team. And they worked with him to build a prosthesis and teach them how to walk and do all those things. And I knew like going back to empathy that he would understand. And so really special person to me just because of that, that that person in my own life. Well, I just wanted to thank everybody, I felt like season two was a huge success. I never would have thought, a year and a half ago, when we started dreaming up this that we would have a 27th episode. So thank you to all of you guys for your hard work. We wouldn't be here without everybody from Taylor to all of you as co-hosts to our guests. And then even I know I mentioned them every time Cameron Ryan who did the music for us. I mean, that was a friend of mine from high school, we couldn't find anybody to do an intro. And he stepped up and did that for us. And so so many different people pitched in in different ways to get us where we are today. And I just want to thank everybody for their work, what to expect going forward. So between now and mid January, we're going to have some bonus episodes that we'll release. And we'll time those pretty evenly either be every week or every other week. But we're going to tackle culture. So you're gonna get a chance to hear different people from our organization and why culture matters to them. Because I do think it's something that as we look at the future of the post pandemic world, I believe one of the deciding factors of what will cause some companies to succeed and others to fail will be the culture and it will be the values behind which people stand. And so having an opportunity to see through the lens of some of our frontline employees who have an opinion on that, I think it's really great. So we'll be airing those through the next month or so. And then from there, we'll start with season three, mid mid January. So stick with us through our bonus episodes and look for more in tune into 2022 and as always, do right think differently and don't forget to care. That's it guys. Take care