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Powerful Conversations, Part 3: From Champions to Leaders

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Episode Topic: From Champions to Leaders

What does it look like when the champions of years past become the leaders of today? Angela Logan, Ph.D., St. Andre Bessette Academic Director of the Master of Nonprofit Administration Program at the Mendoza College of Business, sits down for a fireside chat with Danielle Green ‘99, former ND Women’s Basketball player, U.S. Army Veteran, and Warriors Speak Spokesperson with Wounded Warrior Project, and Shantel Thomas, Ph.D., PCC-S, LSW, former NCAA Woman of the Year for Ohio, President and CEO of A Sound Mind Counseling Service, and Founder of the Center For Healing The Hurt, about a new framework of business leadership and how the discipline and determination that led them to be top level athletes became some of their most invaluable lessons in leadership.

Featured Speakers:

  •  Danielle Green '99, Wounded Warrior Project
  •  Shantel Thomas, Ph.D., PCC-S, LSW, A Sound Mind Counseling Service


Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/4a4c00.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Powerful Conversations. 

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Introduction and Overview

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

​Hello and welcome to this episode of Powerful Conversations. So much has happened personally, professionally, and globally since our first episode in September, 2023. That I cannot wait to unpack with you. But even with all these changes, one thing remains the same. Powerful conversations is a space where we can begin answering the question. Given that demographers estimate that the US will become a majority minority country in 23 years, what will the seat of power look like in the future? I want to thank the Mendoza College of Business, the Alumni Associations ThinkND, the Office of the Provost, the Office of Institutional Transformation, Notre Dame Initiative on Race and Resilience, ND Research, and the black alumni of Notre Dame for sponsoring our time together. So what does 18 months of planning and 20 years of research dreaming and prayer look like? Welcome to powerful conversations. Through powerful conversations with black women leaders, we will explore a new framework of business leadership. In today's episode, we are honored to have two guests, Danielle Green, Notre Dame, class of 1999, who is a US Army veteran, former indie women's basketball player warrior Speak per spokesperson with the Wounded Warrior Project and a Field Examiner with the US Department of Veterans Affairs. Welcome, Danielle.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

you. Good morning ladies.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Good morning to round out this conversation, I'm pleased to welcome Chantel Thomas PhD, P-C-C-S-L-S-W, and CEO of a Sound Mind counseling service, and founder of the Center for Healing the Hurt, a free trauma-based therapy center for kids and teens in the Cincinnati inner city. Chantel.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

you. Glad to be here.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

wonderful to be with you two today. I could think of no better combo, both because of your personal stories and your connections to resilience and women's athletics. To start, we are going to, I want you all share if you feel comfortable. What would you say has been, have been your biggest, bright spots or moments of joy in the last 18 months?

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Go ahead, Dr. Thomas.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay, whew. There's been so much that has happened in the past 18 months in my life. so I would say, you know, I'm really passionate about people being well and healthy and whole. so for me, I have been working with kids and teens my whole life. And the trauma center had received a couple of large grants here in Cincinnati, Ohio to work with the young people. And we started what I call peer-to-peer trauma counseling. And with that, these young people learned how to look for signs of trauma in their peers. They learned how to role play and talk to them in the right questions to ask. So for me, that was one of the biggest successes that I had outside of, you know, there's always the receiving awards in the community for the work that you do. So that's nice over the past 18 months that has happened. But my biggest. I would say just over the 18 Yeah. That working with these young people and watching them go from experiencing hurt or harm to being healed and knowing what signs of healing is are, and to self-regulate. So for me, it's, the work that I do has been the biggest piece.'cause I love when people say, I get it. I now understand how my mental health needs to be. that, and that impacts, impacts my physical health, my spiritual health, my wellbeing. So how it all comes together so that the person is really whole.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Ooh. I love that. And we're gonna unpack several of those areas that you brought up as we continue our conversation. What

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

you, Danielle?

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

with me, you know, I'm a speaker with Wounded Warrior Project is the largest, most innovative non-for-profit, organization in the country. So I'm just, you know, I practice ground two. I'm, you know, just, you know, just being able to, you know, travel the country to, to share my story as a combat disabled female veteran and give those veterans who feel hopeless and helpless because of the system, because of their situation. just hope and breathe new life into them, you know, just because they're. Mission or purpose ended in the service does not mean they cannot, transform themselves and come up with a new purpose and mission in life. And so just being able to speak, I've been on the bus now for three years and so I know you said 18 months, but that's a highlight'cause I'm continuously improving my craft. You know, you can continuously improve it and raise the bar. So that's one. But I think I didn't realize until last year when I was asked to speak at, my 25th anniversary at Notre Dame. I was asked to speak at the father Ted talk with four other speakers. And so that was a huge highlight and I was petrified, but it was so rewarding just to be welcome back, celebrate that 25 years I was able to connect with coach. Coach, Ivy, coach McGraw. it was just nice catching up with people. And so that was a highlight. And then I think being able to travel to London with my son and a friend, and we went to Oxford University and just for him to my son, he's 10, to experience that. And we went to see three plays in 72 hours because I think he's a performing arts guy. And so to give him that experience, you know, so he can have these worldly cultural, experiences. it just bought joy. Joy to me. So I think those are the top three highlights for me.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I love that for you. Thank you for sharing, and thank you for your

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

You are welcome.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Now, I'm sure in these same 18 months, there have been one or three things that have thrown you for a loop. has been grounding you in this season?

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Would you like to start on

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

I could go. Thank you, doctor. you know, it's been tough. So I'm here in St. Petersburg, Florida, and so back in October, we experienced Hurricane Milton, I think was a category five, maybe four or five. And we didn't leave. And so just to experience that was very, terrifying. it was scary. It was almost to me biblical in portion. And so after that, when the storm passed over us, I just made it a point that, you know what, I need to return back to my roots. And my roots is Illinois, Indiana. So I talked to my son and I said, you know what, we're going back to be with friends and family. And you know, that threw me for a loop.'cause I really love it down here. Sunshine State is very nice, but you know what keeps me centered, and grounded is just staying, I. Faithful and prayer up. And when I say prayer, I'm talking about old school prayer where my son and I, we get on our knees and we send those prayers up. we try to go to church every Sunday, but sometimes we don't make it, and that's okay. because I still feel like when you're spiritual, it's in your heart and not necessarily out and about. So just believing in something that's bigger and powerful than myself, constantly sending up those prayers. practicing, gratitude and humility, leaning on family and friends. Taek, my, got my son is into TaeKwonDo, so the TaeKwonDo community, the YMCA, just community is very, powerful when your family is, what, 1200 miles away. So that's what I leaned on.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yeah. And I think, you know what, just what you said, family is very important to me as well, and keeps me grounded. I, when I think back over the past 18 months, there's been a lot of challenges. I have a 23-year-old and a 25-year-old son. And, you know, just with them being young, adult African American males, you know, the challenges that come with that and the things that they encounter and being a mom, you're concerned about where will they, you know, the things that could out in the community. for me, I've always been a big believer in the word of God and how it applies to not only my life, but those who are around me. So my circle of friends have always been, I've had my spiritual friends, I have my physical health friends, and then I have just my girlfriends I travel with. But, you know, the one thing that I enjoy is that when I go to speak at different, in different cities where there's nationally or internationally, and they always ask me to talk about. You know, what has been the strength in my life? And then how have I overcome things? I always talk about the superpower that I have, you know, and how we all have one and how we, you know, I don't, I say I don't give in. I don't give up. I dig in, right? So we don't give up. We dig in, we keep fighting, we keep going and we move forward. And so for me, it all has always been the power of my spiritual background. And knowing that when things get high, I go down on my knees, I pray I fast. And right now I'm actually in a fast right now. I. Because my pastor asked me to speak on the last seven words of, you know, Christ on Good Friday. And so I'm like, I need to be prepared for that. And so the only thing that I know is when things get tough, I don't give up. I dig in. And so over the past 18 months, I had, you know, whether it's challenges with the children or the private practices that I own or haven't, you know, to shift when things happen with young people and how they have their challenges and then they call you and say, can you help? And you have to respond. And he, in Cincinnati, there's been a big of young people with gun violence and the young. com, you know, either killing or wounding each other with the gun violence. So being called, you know, by the mayor or someone in the city to say, can you come and speak to this? Or can you come and work with these young people? And having to shift in that moment. I think if I did not have something, or if I was not rooted in, grounded in the it would probably shift my foundation. But I have this strong foundation and I know there's times where I have to pull away and say, go into your own closet, be quiet. do anything for anybody else. Take care of you. Self-care is the most important thing we could do. It will help us to live long, add up to 20 years to our lives if we just take care of self. so the first, and most important thing I think for any of us is to always make sure that our cup is full. And it's not empty. We're not running on empty and trying to care for other people, but we take care of ourselves first. Then we care for others. And so that's been the way that I live my life and that keeps me grounded. The praying, the self-care, exercising, and the making sure that I'm mentally sound first.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I love that. What is it? The flight attend. This is the last thing the flight attendants say before you take off, put mask on first, before you assist someone else. And

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Exactly.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

in the season, particularly black women in leadership, we've been known to wear a cape and be a superhero to everyone but ourselves. And one of my love languages is memes. And I saw a meme that said, I'm turning my sup, I'm turning my cape into a weighted blanket. And I said, yes and amen. Because that is a game changer. no. of the, mantras that I've taken up in this season is what is mine to do, particularly in these months? What is mine to do?

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Right.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

not called to do a lot of things with the stuff to do. I'm going to do it. So you mentioned your, superpower, Chantel. I'm wondering, Danielle, do you, have you identified what your superpower

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

My superpower is, I think has always been the power of resiliency. Resiliency amongst a adversity. And that's something that I think all of us have in us. And just from the time, and I think a lot of us are born with it.'cause you know, I come from the inner city, Chicago, it was rough. And so I've been able to build this foundation of experiences and that all have been bad. But you grow through adversity. So I tell people, I gave a speech and I love Wonder Woman back in the day. I love, and I told my friend that I wish I had those gold, you know, cups she had on. yes. I and I, she bought me some and I went on stage. She had the cape on. I wasn't daring, but. Anyway, I was telling the veterans that, you know, we all have this superpower in us. and so that's what I, that's what I, you know, resiliency. like you said, Dr. Thomas, you know, self-care. I mean, I do have this 10-year-old, but if I can't take care of my mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, and financial health, then what good am I to this 10-year-old boy who's relying on me? absolutely. Absolutely.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I love that. my late mother used to always impress on me the importance of the three Fs. you all both mentioned them in one way or another. There's family, there's because you must have something to ground you before this world or this world will grind Family and family who are the friends who become like family

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

right.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

as we are often reminded why we can't pick our family, thank God we can pick our friends. And so those three are actually what have kept me grounded in these last 18 months and in all of my life be beside because that helps to remind me of what self-care actually looks like, what resilience looks like, and also how can I show up for others? by showing up for myself first.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

And fun. We forgot that another f.

Leadership Journeys and Inspirations

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Fun and fun, and I think too often, particularly as black women in high powered, positions, we forget to have fun. is something, I dare say, spiritual and holy about. Fun. it's the giggle Fest over the phone or again, my love language is memes and reels. So I will send you a re, a meme. Often if we're in the same room. And then look over at you to see if you're giggling like Uhhuh. You read it? Uhhuh. Now. Now try not to break now. Try not to crack laughing while he's, while pastor is still preaching. Come on. I dare you. I dare you. I love that for us. you all have both kind of mentioned your, in passing your roles in leadership where you are professionally. But I'm wondering if you can recall what would be your first experiences with leadership additionally who have been or who are examples for you of black women leaders that you watched and that you modeled your leadership after.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay, so I'll start. so I think from a early age I was put in leadership roles and that was probably, I started running track when I was in the sixth grade. And so when, and so I was at the field day and we had the field days where the girls and the boys run. And so I beat all the girls and I could turn around and look back and watch the next girl come over the line. So then they had me run against the boys, but then I beat all the boys. What I didn't know. I'm from Indianapolis, and Wilma Rudolph was there at the

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Wow.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

and so yes. So she came, drove me home to my house, knocked on the door and told my mom, this little girl, you know, has, is going somewhere, right? So I, I've traveled Aurora running track, but I never made it to the Olympics. But at one time I was on a team that had the, held the, indoor four by four record, world record for a few weeks in, in London, and I was once ranked like 23rd in the us.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Wow.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

those were some great things, but it all started in sixth grade. So what happened is in, when I went back to school the next day, the kids were like, oh my goodness, woman Rudolph was here and you were so great. And all the girls. At that time, I didn't have a lot of friends. I was very quiet and introverted, but then I had all these friends the next day, And They were like, what are you gonna do? Where are you gonna go? So at that point I realized I have all these friends and I became like this instantaneous leader. had to talk more, had to engage more with them. I was invited to their homes and they were all looking to me for information or what to do and how to do it. And it was overwhelming, but it became funny. It helped me to come out of my shell. So I would say sixth grade, seventh grade, I became this little leader. But then I think when I got to high school, I began to cultivate that. And I understand how to be quiet when I needed to be quiet when people needed to talk. I. I understood when to open my mouth and speak because when women would, when the girls in high school would say, don't tell the secret, I did not. I think that's why I became, went into psychology, you know, but when they said, can you help me with this boyfriend or this friend or situation, and I was always an athlete and I did all the sports and so I was always a captain. So I think that started from sixth grade, but by the time I got to high school, I understood as a leader, there are times where you follow as well as you lead. There's a time when you speak and you don't speak, and there's a time when you can step back and let somebody else lead and it doesn't diminish you at all. So I've learned to really use the lead as we, as I climb as I lead and I climb, I'm going to pull somebody else up and have them come along with me. So that's been one of the models in my life to this day. But it started in, I think in sixth grade. And My people just gonna sound very cliche, but my mother is my biggest cheerleader and has always told me, Shannon, you can do anything you put your mind to. And so I have to say my mother has been one of the women who I watched her as a single mom, raise two children, go to night school, I mean graduate, you know, from high school, go to night college, get her, you know, her degree, become a fashion designer, just overcome all the odds, right? And then, Wilma Rudolph of course, because, she was very influe influential in my sixth through eighth grade years. And then there was another woman, she, Joanne Grissom, who she gave me over to who trained me, And I traveled with her and that team. And then I would say Maya Angelou. I mean, just, I know why the Cage Bird sing and all of her poetry. It really got me through some difficult times. Excuse me, in my life. And so those are the women that I looked at and I pattern myself after and I thought, man, I would love to be like them. And then I have Angela Bassett and Michelle Obama, of course. those are two others that are in my, if I say who is in my package of things that I read and I have been encouraged by, Davis. They all have been very impactful in what I have read or what I have seen. And I've said, these are women I want to be like. And who, have done well in life.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Love that.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

me.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

What about you,

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

So I would say around middle school as well, we had just, I remember my mom had transferred me from one school to another, and I didn't know anyone around that time, about sixth grade and found out about basketball and oh, basketball, I could try out for the middle school basketball team. And worked hard and made that team. And it's just amazing when you're part of a team, an athletic team, how people, other students, other teachers, they just look at you differently. You have to hold yourself to a certain standard. You have to maintain excellent grades. And so I just started to thrive and I was in a introvert too. I had low self-esteem. the dark, skinny girl, you know? So I had all those complexes, all that stuff, but athletics slowly started to. peel that onion down where I felt secure in my own skin. And so anyway, being on the middle school basketball team, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, becoming one of the leaders. a captain eventually by eighth grade. And then that catapult me to becoming student console president. that was a wonderful event experience. Had a vice president just learning about how government runs in the eighth grade. and I worked at a candy store, the neighborhood candy store. I started working there when I was 11. And so I knew everybody at the school. Everybody knew me. And, you know, I would actually say, let me back that up a little bit. I would say besides maybe seventh grade or maybe eighth grade, I actually used to open up the candy store and I would run it prior to, school starting. And so that was my. First I think leadership, you know, business experience. And then from there I just kind of just, and that grounded me. That grounded me.'cause I always knew I wanted to attend the University of Notre Dame, so I always knew I, I had to state be this clean cut kid. And so then I went off to high school and I just blossomed. I mean, I remember watching, observing a upperclassmen and he had seven rows. This is Junior Reserve Officer training corps program I was in. And he had like several rows of ribbons and all these medals and he was handsome and all I kept thinking was I. When I'm a, I was a freshman. When I'm a senior, I want to be the top dog. And so by the time I was a senior, I became the first, girl or female to be lieutenant colonel at my high school. and yeah. And so it was a cool experience to you know, lead what over two, 300 other kids. And they looked up to me. they cherished me. And it was just an amazing feeling. But of course, went to college and then I was knocked back down to live. I just, it hit me hard when I went off to college. But those are some early, experiences that I'm still fond of today. And they just bring me great joy just to think about it. I would say growing up. I always looked up to my grandmother. she was very, resourceful.'cause we grew up off food stamps and we didn't have much. So she was resourceful. She found a way to provide for her grown kids and three grandkids. And I never knew how she did it, but she did it. We always had meals. Just her strength, her stature. She was about 4 10, 4 11. But her stature, she, you know, the people in the community, she was a community lady. She babysat, she did, you know, she took care of the building, the apartment building for the landlord. And so just seeing her work, her mental fortitude, I said, you know, I have to make it to provide for her one day when she needs me.'cause she's keeping the family afloat. And then, school teachers, Ms. Cato, one of my, Very good buddies. I met her when I was 11 years old. She's a school teacher, special education. always looked at her as the ultimate professional and she took me under her wing and now she's 75, 76 years old, and. We still keep in touch. And so I'll never forget her. And I would say career-wise, when I got outta college, I was lost, didn't know what direction I wanted to head into, so I applied to be a school teacher. And so Ms. McDaniel, she was the principal at a charter school in Chicago, and I had no experience. But, you know, that's when that athletic background comes into play. I mean, people just knowing that you're a team, you may not have the skills that we need right now, but you're part of a team. You know how to be a team player, you know, a time management skills. you can learn. I mean, you're in college, so you went to college, you're college educated. she taught me. You know, how to be a professional. And then I just observed her from a distance on how she managed a school full of women, you know, African American women. She never sided with anyone. She was always pretty, pretty n neutral. And in a couple of weeks I'll be heading back to Chicago to celebrate her 70th birthday. And so just to have these long lasting, relationships. And there's more, but we could be here for the next several hours. I want to keep it very short, but like Dr. Thomas said, you know, reading the works of, Dr. Maya Angelou, I'm gonna put Oprah out there, self-made. You know, I looked at myself as a self-made woman. Nobody gave me anything. I had to, do it on my own. I wish I had a little bit of Oprah's money. Now, I'm not gonna lie, but no, I just keeping it real. But, Oprah just looking at her from a distance. professional athletes like Cheryl Swoops back in the day, what she did, Lisa Leslie, Just looking at those women just to, you know, just keep going and looking at what they've done after their athletic careers,

Community and Collaborative Leadership

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Now you did mention something about not being self-made or being but also I do think that there's a uniqueness that's particular to black women leaders in that we often model the alternative to the self-made. We think about what does it mean to do something in community versus the sort of rugged individualism or toxic professionalism, toxic perf, perfective perfection that shows up in our culture, often in men, sometimes in other women. But I wonder if you all have noticed while you, while we have kind of pulled ourselves up. In community is there some self-compassionate awareness, community building and strength vulnerability that has shown you a path to leadership through relationships and collaboration?

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Ooh, that's loaded.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I know, right? I was like,

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

You know, we're just gonna find the cure for the common cold. Develop the perfect pair of hosiery and unpack collaborative leadership.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

okay, so say it again. Like in, in a shorter, just a collaborative leadership, like how do we.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

the model of, many of the women that you've stated, that you admired, that you look up to you, that you celebrated, while it may have felt like they were self-made, they did it in community.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yeah.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

tell you that you as you c, lead and climb and bring you. is in the research that I've done, that's a peculiarity in leadership.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Ah,

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

have you,

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

okay.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

has that kind of shown up work, whether it's self-compassionate awareness, community building or, and or strength through vulnerability.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Ooh. think for me it's all of the above because I, you know, and having my private practices, when I initially started the private practices, I, it was just me and I didn't know anything about leading or, you know, in that area because we're taught to be mental health professionals, but we're not taught anything about business in those just taught how to counsel, And so when I had people start calling me and say, Hey, I heard you were a great supervisor, but you know, after I was their supervisor, they were like, I hear you do great supervision, but can I stay on in the practice? And I'm like, okay, but gonna let you know right now. I really, this is all new to me, so we will be learning as we go. and so for me, I think I was being vulnerable and open and telling them upfront, Hey, I know how to do therapy, but I'm not a business owner. I know nothing about this business and how to grow and run a business. But what I found is because I was vulnerable and open and talked, what I did know and what I did not know, and I was open to tell them. I would ask them, how long do you wanna stay in my practice before you leave? And some of'em will say three years or a year. But ultimately, most of them stay with me about 15 or 20 years before they left. And I, a couple of them, I had to push out and say, you know, you are ready to go. You can do this. So I felt like I did, you know, part of me was that, you know, it's a community. Like we, I have a culture in my practice, it's primarily African American women and men who were in the practice. and we service primarily African American or people of color, I should say. Not just African American, but the majority are people of color. and so I would say to them, Hey, you said you wanna be here three years, but I'm trying to figure out why you're staying. They were like, because you're such a good teacher, you're fair. I like it here. I don't need to go out and start my own because I'm getting, you know, my, my portion that I receive is I can live on. And so I started to say, I want to equip them because we need to continue to branch and grow so the community grows. So you can start a practice. I have a practice and we're not competing with each other. We're And so some of those people have now left and started their own practices and they've grown. And so I feel you know, as you think about community, I can only service so my community and there's enough work for all of us to live well, be well, and to help others. So my goal is never about the money, but to make sure that the people that I help are well. And there are some therapists who I said, I pulled them aside and said, I want to clone you as a mini me, you know? And then you go out and do the same thing. Because I can see your skillset. You're a go-getter, you're passionate about this work, and let me show you how I do it. So here's the roadmap. Look at it and then go. And so that's how I feel like as I climb, I lead or I lead as I climb. So I bring, I identify usually two or three people in my practice who I can see that these people are passionate and will do the work and can start their own successful practice. And then I train them. And then I'll say, what's the track? Is it three years? Is it five years? Is it seven before you leave? and like I said, some of them stay 10, 15 years. I had 1 21 years. And I have another who's been there 25, as long as I've been in practice almost. She's still here. She's I'm not going anywhere. I'm 70 years old and I'm just having fun. So I think it's very important. That, you know, as leaders, we, when we see people are ready to leave and go, we don't say no. I have to hold onto them and keep them in my, you know, with me or this is my community and I've established it and this is it. No one else can come or leave. It has to be, you know, it's relational. more than transactional. I think that we have to be open to saying, okay, it's time for you to go, you know, baby bird, let me push you out the nest and you know, and get to, and you go fly and soar and I'm going to soar, and then we stay connected. yeah, I saw, for me, I think it's all three.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I love that.

Personal Journey and Resilience

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

I would say the same thing as a speaker, with Wounded Warrior Project. I've never really, looked at myself as a leader. I just, I just look at myself as a team player. But I'm on this, I'm on this podcast and I'm sharing some lessons, but you know, I. You know, when I think about, I guess I am a leader in the veterans community, you know, I'm putting myself out there every time, I go speak, whether it's a veteran's audience or a civilian audience. I mean, I am opening myself, my, myself up creating that awareness through just sharing my own, personal story and my journey and the challenges of, being a female combat wounded veteran. But I think there, there's strength in that because like I said earlier, there's so many veterans out there, that are hopeless, that are helpless, that, you know, are suicidal. you know, that they don't come to the forefront because of the stigma, stigmatization, stigmatizing, or stigmatization of, mental health, you know, being, something that's bad. To me, it's normal. I mean, I talk about all the time about, The inhumanities of war. So of course when you come back, you might not quite be the same. so that's where I can come in, you know, as a female, whereas a male, my male counterpart, he may not, he's hardcore, he's hard, you know, he's doing his thing. But as a woman, I can say it's okay to let down your guards and just open up and share. And so that's what I do every time I speak. I'm putting myself out there, you know, to show that I'm human and we can grow and learn from our experiences and move forward. And, you know, putting myself out there allows me to bridge that gap between. the military community or veterans community and the civilian community and figure out ways that we can help e each other.'cause I tell people, wounded Warrior Project is a non-for-profit organization. We don't receive, government funding. So we rely on the public, you know, our fundraising efforts, direct world efforts. We rely on the community to help those most vulnerable get back on their feet, and continue to serve their community. So I feel like my role is just, you know, uplifting and being a cheerleader. And it, so it's okay to feel the way you feel. But there's also help out here too. You know, the, you know, Dr. Thomas, you're out there. I mean, I know you work with kids, but maybe one day you might branch out. But I'm gonna tell you, we are a hardcore population. but building communities that understand and support veterans, also creates, you know, opportunities for sema. systematic change, you know, the Veterans Administration has changed so much in 21 years. I remember when I used to go to the clinic and I would go to the clinic and it would be all these Vietnam veterans, like salivating over men. I'm like, oh my God. But, you know, nowadays I can go to the VA and it's a women's clinic, you know, where the receptionists are women and the doctors are women, and I'm in there. And We have to be in, in my situation, you know, at first when I got hurt, I wanted to be invisible. I didn't wanna be seen.'cause to me it was shame. It was shame. And, you know, losing my arm and being a female and having those scars. But I said, you know, I lost my arm serving my country. So why am I hiding? So hiding? What am I hiding from? So I am starting to see myself more as a leader for the veterans community.'cause I'm willing to put myself out there and I love this lead. As I climb, I'm still climbing and I wanna put something out there. In July, I'm going to be climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. So

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

wow.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

gonna be climbing a mountain. so yes, so lead as I climb it. So my thing is just to bring joy, you know, joy from tragedy. That's why I said my superpower is resiliency and that never give up mentality.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

That's good. good.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

so rich, as you

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

I wrote that because I said I ain't.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

as you literally climb Kilimanjaro,

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yes.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Woo.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

And I have to say that came, that's not mine, so I can't own that. That's from, I received an award from the YWCA here, which is like one of the biggest awards you can get in the

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Uhhuh.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

that's their motto, like lead as we

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

always say we need to, as women, we lead as we I wanna say, that's not mine.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay. I'll credit, I'll look it up and credit it to, so

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

there you go.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

I'll add a word or take a word out

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

yes. it's just, it's theirs. But, and yes. And so my passion is I work with women primarily. I started the nonprofit for kids, but I do, my main piece is working with women and couples in, in therapy. yeah. so you never know. We made

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

you. You

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

talk a

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

You never know. Because this is one thing I don't wanna get off. Get off topic. I can see how I can get off. Topic. Topic, but you know, when we treat the veteran, we have to remember that the veteran is part of a system. He's part, he's got a spouse or a caregiver, and he's got kids. And so we have, when we look at them healing, we have to look at them holistically. And that's where people, that's where community partners come in because the VA is just for veterans. But you need those community partners to deal, oh, what you doing? What whatcha doing? Okay. But no. So that's great. So I hope in the future we can, I can introduce you to some people with Wounded Warrior Project and get you on the bus too.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

All right.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

speaking as the proud daughter of a disabled Vietnam veteran, who's also a widower for whom I am his primary caregiver. I'm an only

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Uhhuh?

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

It's a systematic team

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

yes,

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

It is an all deck on hands. All the supports, all you need, all we all need

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

yes.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

And one of the things that I often say when related to mental health, no shame if I pull out my inhaler.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Right,

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

judges me or acts some kinda way if I reach for my Why wouldn't, why would we then attribute shame to another part of the body that also needs a little bit of

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

right.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I have no shame when I go to the dentist, except when they ask me if I've flossed and I kind of say, look, this is a thing, but exactly, there's no shame. We're not disparaging you. We're not actually putting you down. Folks aren't self-medicating to deal with dental ca dental challenges. Or asthma, let's elevate the conversation around mental

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Amen.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

people can get that, particularly in black and brown communities so that people can get the help that they need. I have a, on my battery pack, my, power pack, my power bank. a sticker that says I love Jesus and my therapist. And so really

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

yes,

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

a both and not an either or.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

right.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

we have to kind of really the stigma. And your, to your point, Danielle, particularly in the military community, because if you present, you are trained to be so strong that having any sort of weakness

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

you out. It's a challenge. And they gonna kick you out. Yes. Yes.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

then now we have to, oh, okay, now I'm weak.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yes. And then that just spirals out control. Where now you having these thoughts of I don't, I'm not worthy.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I'm not. yeah. we touched on this a little bit earlier, but I'm wondering what are some best practices you all have that keep you going as you look to integrate faith, family, and career? I heard TaeKwonDo, I heard mountain climbing.

Self-Care and Mental Well-being

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yeah. for if I start, I think I said it when I talked about my praying and That's every morning. as research talks about the first seven minutes of the day or the last seven minutes of the day, what you do really matters. So those first seven minutes, if I wake up and I'm at a in peace and I'm listening to worship music and I'm praying, or I'm meditating, you know, or stretching or exercises, then that's how my day's gonna start. But if I start out with, oh my goodness, I over sleep, I need to run and get the kids x, y da, then I'm starting out in a stressful state. The same thing when I go to sleep. If I go to bed with that relaxed state of mind and. You know, making sure things are calm and peaceful, that's gonna happen. If I go to sleep and I'm watching these movies that are like horror movies or whatever, then I'm gonna have that in my So I'm really big into making sure that my mental and physical health are, well. And so making sure that my day and what keeps me going, my faith, my family, my business there, that's in order. So it's always, my faith first. And then it goes to my family. But then again, in that faith piece, making sure that I'm taking care of me first. So the, what I do in the morning, I have to get up, I have to pray, I have to meditate, then I exercise, and then I start my day. and if I, and when I don't do that, I feel the difference. I feel the difference, and my day is going to be off. And so I think that, for me, there's times where I have to fast. I just turn the plate over because I'm like, I need to hear from God. I need to make sure that, I can say that food that I eat is not the true nourishment. My spirit needs to be nourished. And so I think it's just very important. And I know for people how whatever their faith is or their walk is, I'm like, just as long as you do it,

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yes. Yes.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I think also as, as well as, as long as we know that the, we have to do something, we have to move, just move 20, 30 minutes a day, that body moving that'll keep you, drink your water. You know, half of your, body weight and water is what I was told to drink. So that's what I make sure I do every day. I get at least half of what I you know, and ounces of water. So those kind of basic things that are simple, we all know to

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

You don't do it

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Those are the things that I think keep me mentally and physically and spiritually well.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

All right. for me, I'm gonna piggyback off of you. self care, going to the gym almost every day. So YMCA three times a day. Then I always, I've always had a treadmill at home, since I got out the military, just in case. I don't want to be bothered with anybody. working out, lifting, Just paying attention to what's going on upstairs, you know?'cause you know, I still, I'm still a woman and I still have a missing limb, and I like to say, yes, I'm perfect, but I'm that. So I have those moments where, you know, that self-awareness piece where I feel like, you know, I'm slipping a little bit, so I don't see a therapist anymore. I, I've hired a trainer, so I'd rather just throw up some weights, put on my activity arm with my hook and just throw up some weights. And if I feel like talking to her, I talk to her. If I don't. But that's my time. So just really finding that, that private time with myself just to make sure I'm okay because I am on the road and I'm constantly, you know, sharing, what happened to me in Iraq. So you're almost like reawakening. Stuff that you're maybe trying to close, but never really close. And so just checking in physically, emotionally, spiritually, I said exercise, hobbies. My son and I, we just, we learn how to, we are playing pickleball together. He's in TaeKwonDo. So a lot of my, I have my nine to five, which isn't really nine to five, but I also have, my second job, which he's probably my first job, but just taking him, I mean, Dr. Thomas, you know, you had two boys, so just taking them to basketball tournaments and this and that, I find great joy. I call him, I'm the chauffeur mom. so that gives me great joy.'cause for a long time I didn't think I was gonna be able to have a kid. So just to have this little boy that challenges me every freaking day I meet, I wrote that down first seven minutes. Last seven minutes. So I actually started implementing this, making sure that I'm stretching. Stretching.'cause you know, you get older, a creek there and a creek there. but you know, learning how to celebrate. Little wins, you know, like I was so nervous about coming on this, this broadcast, you know, but I'm like, you know what? Once I get through it and complete it, you know, it's gonna be great. So I'm gonna celebrate, I'm gonna take myself out to lunch. So I believe in, you know, rewarding myself. you know, just, like Dr. Thomas said, you know, faith, using faith as a grinding principle. You know, when I was hurt in Iraq, I was like, who can I dial up, you know, in my time of need? And I called on the Lord'cause I didn't know what, who else? I was up there by myself. And so that's very, that's my guiding principle as to always believe in something that is, higher and more powerful than myself. And I'm instill in that stuff, still instilling those, values into my son as well. And and then I have a career with purpose. You know, I used to work for the Chicago Board of Education, very political system, the Department of Veterans Affairs, which also gave me great purpose. I was a readjustment counselor, helping veterans with benefits and stuff. But with Wounded Warrior Project, I just get to touch so many souls. But with that, it becomes a great responsibility. And so that's why we bring it back in, into, you know, self care and setting those boundaries. I'm real, very clear on boundaries with my team. You know, I work here and then I have family time. You cannot interrupt, you know, my, my family time, so

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Absolutely. I love the first seven minutes and

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

I did.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

minutes. I've been doing that subconsciously, and then not even realizing that's what I've been doing. lately taken to incorporating breath prayers, just sweet

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yeah,

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

even, prayer beads and just kind of every time I hear the prayer bead click, then I actually will say a prayer, which is, and I put it on my

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

that's good.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

because I'm a lefty, so my hand is always moving and one of my newest breath prayers that I say as soon as I wake up before I even push the app, open the app to start the coffee maker God, get in my head before I

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

that's

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

because

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

That's good.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

it's a whole thing.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yeah.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I like

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

I,

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

I'm gonna have to use that one. I'm gonna take that one. ha.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

The other thing that I've found is I have now taken to, after I brush my teeth, I look in the mirror and I found this online somewhere. I say, I love you three times and then follow that with God. I can't wait to see what miracles you have in store for me today.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay. I like that too.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

puts me in a posture of being open to whatever miracle shows up. sometimes the miracle is, I remember to put the coffee grounds into the coffee maker. That's the miracle of the morning because there are some days where I have brewed a pot of hot water. And so that's the miracle. And then at the end of the day, I've taken to listening to the Calm app and listen and falling asleep.'cause I would listen to jazz or I'd fall asleep watching a And it wasn't whatever you put in those last seven minutes or what you're gonna kind of be ruminating on. So now I'm listening to some sleep, app, sleep Sounds from the Calm app, which are just

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Wow.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

settling my system. And I've learned similarly that I can tell the next morning when I didn't listen to it because I wake up all discombobulated, like, why did I not rest Because you didn't put on the

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

those are a couple of mine as

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Nice.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

So this has been such a fruitful, amazing conversation. I wanna, there are about two or three more questions I wanna ask.'cause I know we all have lives and laundry and responsibilities and all the things. our new president of the University of Notre Dame, father Bob Dowd, has charged all of us to ask one another, what do we owe each other? How does your work help create a sense of belonging? And in the words of Dr. King, a more beloved community.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

So I'm gonna say for. The belonging and the community. they're just naturally built into who I am as far as how I engage every day with the people, whether they're live in my home or they're the people that are in my practice, or the young people in the community, or the women that I, when I do, speak at women empowerment events. and I think, you know, just able to say that, I do, I feel that I belong a sense of belonging to them when they So we are connected to, through the relationships that develop and grow. I wrote a book, During Covid called Life is Grand After that, man when I went through my divorce. And then just stories of different women that I have worked with who have gone through their divorce and how and the healing. And they were like, Dr. Thomas, you need to write this book. And so as they told their stories and I said, you know, I'll change names and dates and, you know, make it really fun and light, but can I Because this is our community, right? As women, the women that go through that's a

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yes, it's, yeah.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Because we have to learn how to love again, trust again, live again, be okay, being alone again. You know? And so all of that was so important to me. And I was like, I have this community of women and sisters now that I didn't have before. And so I think when we think about belonging, you know, in that space, who we are, how we develop and our morals, our values, and when we connect with others, not just women, but anyone, so important to say, do they accept me and can I accept them for who they are? And they accept me for who I am, then yes, then I belong here because this is my community. You know, and we just continue to grow that. I think it's so important for us to open our circles and let our community grow. Not to say, Hey, this is my community just But every time I meet someone, I think, how can I connect with them? What do we share in common? You know? And if it's a woman or even a male that I can say, Hey, I like what, how we think and how we get along and we have some of the same thoughts, beliefs, and I like your character, then I can open my to that person. So research says women are supposed to have three women that they're totally vulnerable with to be healthy, and men only have one.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Wow.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

but you know, those three close friends, if you don't have them, why? But I think I have about 12 women. I counted one day, how many women am I close to and am I vulnerable with? And I'm open with, and I share my true inner self. And there's 12. So I'm like, I have more than enough. But I'm con, I'm willing to open that circle to have a larger community now and have a more sense of belonging to more people and being a part of that. So me.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Sounds good. I'm gonna write that down. I think I have about three or more too. So probably not 12. That probably not 12.'cause I work remotely, so I'm a little isolated. but Dr. Thomas, I think as a, former, you know, scholar, athlete, you can identify with this. So I think, let me see, three years in middle school, let me see, nine, 12. So for 12 years I identified to, with being a student athlete, that was my tribe. Middle school, high school, college, and then even a little bit after college. And then one day all that went away. And I became a school teacher and I found community there and fellowship and love. but something was missing. And I said, what is missing? And it was that, that just that cohesion is to be a part, a team. And for me it was to be a part of something that was bigger than myself. And so I joined the military and a lot of people who don't know me think I just joined the military off the blue. What I knew as a 7-year-old that I wanted to serve my country. And I said, you know, at 25, 26 years old, I'm still, you know, I still have it. I'm still athletic, you know, I can still do this. You know, I wanted to study leadership. I said, what better way to study leadership is by joining the military. You know, you got officers and generals and they're leading troops. What better way? And so I served, but then I got hurt and 23 months later until my service, it was gone. And so now I'm. Not literally, but I'm out in the street figuratively trying to figure out, you know, this sense of belonging. You know, now I'm classified as disabled, which I'm still able, but the world looks at me as disabled, you know, pity me. and so I was trying to find that community. And you know, when I started working for the Department of Veterans Affairs and I started, I was a readjustment counselor. I found my community. Now, the gender was totally different. It was mostly Vietnam veterans, and they looked at me like, Hey, we didn't serve with women and we was in the jungle and this and that. But I said, you, you know what? I am. A female, but, and I, ser and I was in, in the sandbox, which is Iraq, and you guys were in Vietnam, which is the jungle. But our commonality is we serve, we serve our country. We put our lives on the mind. We on the, you know, lot of our lives out there. we sacrifice our minds and our spirits and some of us body parts. So let's work together. And so for me, my belonging, my tribe is my, the veterans that I encounter. and Dr. Thomas, like you said, I'm even learning to expand that when I go out and talk, you know, I used to just focus on the veterans, but now, you know, if you didn't serve, you're American patriot because you're here and you're fundraising and you're here to hear what I have to say about my experience, experiences and demystifying, mental health because I have a physical, I. Injury, but there's so many people out there that have invisible wounds, post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic brain injury, military sexual trauma. So how do we bring all of us together to work toward, you know, to steer in the right direction? So I just believe that my contributions to, wounded Warrior Project and my public advocacy, you know, going to DC and advocate for certain bills and embodies that community oriented leadership that mirrors, Dr. King's vision. and I can challenge when I go out and speak, I can challenge perceptions about veteran populations and I can spark dialogues that people had never conceived and uplift others when they're down. All which I think are vital in, in creating spaces of belonging, empathy, and compassion.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Belonging, empathy and compassion. If only we had more of that in this world, how much better would we all be? Last big

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Okay,

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

we chose, Sankofa as the symbol for our series, which is a bird at the center of the graphic that we use for the series. Sankofa comes from the tweed language that roughly translate at translates as it is not taboo to go back and retrieve what we lost. Does that resonate? How does that resonate with your work, your life, how you show up in the world?

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Danielle, you want me

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

go ahead.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

first or you wanna, okay. So you know, when I was younger, I don't know if this was like, maybe when I was in my twenties, I saw the movie Sankofa. And it was life changing. You know, the movie was life changing for me and it really connected me to, it made me go back and watch, you know, roots again, and then 40 years without a comb. It was just like all these other movies came up after watching Sankofa. And so for me, going back and trying to get what I lost, when I think about what has happened or what's, again, that whole lead while I climb is where that comes into play in my life is that when I see young girls, and especially because I'm an African American female, especially African American young females who had the self-esteem or the skin color, the colorism issues, or they were so skinny, you know, those things, when I see them with their heads down or they don't have the confidence, my goal has always been to make sure I can build them up. And it grew from African American young girls to just any So in that, my whole thing is going back and capturing that. I make sure that the young women that come into my practice, when I do a lot of the, you know, pro bono and free work through the nonprofit with one of us called Lovely Me. It's a self-esteem group for girls. And so in there it is very important for me to help them. They go back and they research. Their history, their roots, where are they from, where they're culturally from. And some people say, I'm American. where did your family, did they come from Ireland, Germany? They we didn't start out here, so we all have these roots, or did they come from Africa or wherever it may be. And so much so that here in Cincinnati, there, there used to be a group that just in the Carl Sankofa, and they would take the young people back to Africa and talk to them about, you know, they would go through the whole past to have that experience and talk to'em about, you know, what it meant to be a come from Africa to America. And so I tried to continue that on since Sankofa is no longer in And so when I was like, oh my goodness, Sankofa, like, how is this so important in soul right now? Because now we need to have that sense of community belonging. where we're from. I think that when you really know your history and your roots, it helps you to be stronger, stand strong, and be proud. and so in my office, you know, we have cultural symbols and I say, it's so important, I ask everybody, what is your cultural symbol? What does that mean to you? And so for me, there is a, you'll look around and you'll see a lot of Afrocentric items, but you also see items from other cultures But I think people need to have this sense when they come into my practices that everybody's welcome here and

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

Yeah.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

all about us being well.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

I love that. I'm gonna, I gotta check out that movie Sanko for figure out where I can, what streaming service. I can find it.

shantel-thomas--ph--d-_1_03-31-2025_093450

good movie.

danielle-green_1_03-31-2025_093450

okay. for me, it's the same thing, I guess. But you know, when I was a readjustment counselor with the Department of Veterans Affairs, I worked a lot with Vietnam veterans and a lot of them were, were bitter. And Dr. Logan, I don't know how your father, how he felt about how he was treated when he came home, but they, they weren't treated well. And so I would sit there and I would listen to these, to the stories about, and I know all of'em wasn't spit on, but it's definitely through their sacrifice and their lobbying, you know, it afforded me the opportunity to have the things that I, or the benefits, or, I don't wanna say entitlements, but benefits that I received today and others, you know, millions of others through their sacrifices. And you know, just knowing what they've gone through, their history. when I go out and speak, I just wanna make sure I honor them. I honor those veterans who. we're not seen who were disrespected, you know, by sharing their stories, by sharing my story. And I think, Sankofa, you know, en embodies that, you know, how can we move forward if we don't understand our military past, or our veteran past? And so it's about, re retrieving and elevating, those live lives, those live experience experiences that may otherwise, have been overlooked. when I talk, I like to bring up different lessons based on, based on different things. you know, my advocacy, it can bridge, like I said earlier, bridge that the past with the president draw, draw upon the strengths, you know, the lessons learned in, military experiences and challenges, and moments of perseverance. and inspire us to understand what veterans, from the past and present have. have endured. and just healing through, reflection. I think one of the things I enjoy about Wounded Warrior Project is that they, they have support groups, for us if we choose to participate, just to have that reflection and heal and know that, that you're not alone. And there's an abundance of help out there because of the sacrifices that our Vietnam veterans and probably other war generations had to endure. And I just try to keep in mind that my voice has power, that I have the. Power to empower other people to get out there, in particular, females of color, to get out there and advocate and say, Hey, we matter too. We serve too. Not just this, gender or culture, like we matter too. And so that's the biggest thing. It's just getting out there and putting a face and a name to, to it all to the larger masks.

angela-r--logan--phd--she-her-_1_03-31-2025_093450

Our voices matter. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your voices, Danielle and Chantelle. It has been an absolute pleasure and a true delight, and I can't wait to see where this triad of good trouble, necessary trouble, what we're gonna get into going forward. Thank you all for listening in, and we hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as we have. Please visit think.nd.edu to learn more about powerful conversations and other series that might interest you. next time, inspire your mind and spark conversations. Go Irish.