He Preached to Death Row… and the Aryan Brotherhood Leader Got Saved

What happens when God breaks into the darkest places—literally behind bars?

In this powerful episode of the Rise Up Kings podcast, Skylar Lewis sits down with the founder of God Behind Bars, one of the largest prison ministries in America, reaching over 1 million inmates for Christ. From planting churches inside maximum security prisons to interviewing death row inmates who surrendered their gang affiliations for Jesus, this conversation will leave you stunned, inspired, and awakened.

They talk redemption, identity, pain, leadership, and the incredible transformations happening behind prison walls. Real stories. Real change. One of the most gripping and raw interviews we’ve ever done.

Topics Covered:

- How hardened hearts are transformed in prison
- The truth about trauma and identity in men
- A death row inmate lays down his gang patch for Jesus
- 2.4 million prisoners accessing faith-based content
- Why passivity in men is destroying homes
- What forgiveness actually means when you’re serving life

If you’ve ever doubted what God can do through pain, watch this.

👇 Subscribe for more bold conversations around masculinity, leadership, and faith.

Connect with God Behind Bars: 
Website:
https://www.godbehindbars.com
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/godbehindbars
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/GodBehindBars
YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@GodBehindBars
TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@godbehindbars
Twitter / X:
https://twitter.com/GodBehindBars
Contact Email (from website):
info@godbehindbars.com
Donation Page:
https://www.godbehindbars.com/donate

For more information on Rise Up Kings, go to https://riseupkings.com/youtube

Not ready to do an in-person event? Join our online community here riseupkings.com/4pillarman-yt

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;14;02
Unknown
This month. We feel like prayerfully that will cross over a million salvations. That's a million different individuals that have click that button that they want to accept Jesus as their leader and forgiver of their life. I thought I was going to put a gun to my head and just end it. Had two kids at the time. My third hadn't been born.

00;00;14;03 - 00;00;29;24
Unknown
It was the pain. I couldn't focus on anything else besides the pain. One of the most badass things that somebody has ever said to me, he looks right at me and he says, if it's the Lord's will, then let it be done. This person is basically dead yet still alive, existing on this rock, but I'll probably never see them again.

00;00;29;25 - 00;00;48;03
Unknown
The letters and the phone calls stop. Not because they don't love the individual, but it's like it's almost too painful of a reminder that this person is literally the walking dead. I was asking the victim, Why God? Why God? Why God? Like, why are you doing this to me? Heard nothing, for I am. Change the question to what do you want me to do?

00;00;48;03 - 00;01;11;15
Unknown
And clear as day he said, learn the word, teach the word. He's literally just using us as a vessel and as a tool to show his miraculous, life changing power to the world. And that's really our heart. At the other day. God Behind Bars is one of the largest Christian prison ministries out there, and we have the founder of God Behind Bars on this episode, and we dive deep into the conversation of what it means to live out our Christian faith.

00;01;11;18 - 00;01;33;07
Unknown
He tells some stories, some wild stories of inmates and their conversion, and how they sometimes can live even more Christlike than the average Christian outside of prison. We get real in this conversation and discuss how they've reached over a million people for the Kingdom. All right, welcome to the show. Thanks, man. Thanks for having us. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation.

00;01;33;07 - 00;01;57;02
Unknown
What God is doing through your organization is pretty incredible, for sure. Let's start off with, so God behind bars, how it's been running for for about how 14 years. Okay. This May. Yeah, yeah. 15 years. And what does what exactly do you guys do? Primarily, our mission is to introduce inmates to Jesus and connect them to the local church.

00;01;57;02 - 00;02;22;22
Unknown
But beyond that, we do a lot of things. And family reunification, obviously, a fatherless home is is, is a huge deal. And so after we lead these men to Christ, teaching them how to be, the hero in their child's life again, is really what our next step is. There's 10.8 million kids in the US, that have an incarcerated parent.

00;02;22;24 - 00;02;45;20
Unknown
And statistics show that 85% of them are going to go to prison themselves. And so family unification outside of changing the heart, through Jesus, it's really now changing the mind and saying, hey, you know what? I'm going to teach these men, these men are going to teach themselves to raise themselves up to be the leaders of their home, specifically the spiritual leaders of them, their home again.

00;02;45;23 - 00;03;08;16
Unknown
And, that's really our goal and intention. And then we do some of the reentry aspects of things as they reenter society, job placement and training. In fact, we're getting ready to launch our second app called Panel Plus. That is, very similar to kind of a master class, if you will, where teaching some industry specific skills.

00;03;08;18 - 00;03;27;05
Unknown
And just even how to buy your own house or what's the benefits between renting and buying those simple things that, a lot of these guys didn't grow up knowing or have someone to teach them? We teach them through that application. So. And this app, so you guys launched tell us a little bit more about this app.

00;03;27;05 - 00;03;44;05
Unknown
It was quite, amazing how impactful it is and how you've actually been able to get it into all these prisons. Yeah, it was actually a response to Covid, 2020. I honestly thought it was going to be the end of our organization. We knew that prisons would be the first thing to close down in the last thing to reopen.

00;03;44;07 - 00;04;08;28
Unknown
Obviously, things like sickness and disease already run rampant in prisons. And then when the pandemic hit, it's, it's especially, taken serious. And so we literally all of our programing up into this point was in-person programing. We'd go into the institutions, some institutions daily, others weekly, and do all of our programs. Well, all of that shut down literally overnight.

00;04;08;28 - 00;04;28;18
Unknown
And so I remember crying for the first two days, of the shutdown and then kind of got into fight mode and, started open up all of our strategic planning and what our vision boards, what was on our vision boards, like, how we could respond to continue to do ministry. In the time that literally there was going to be none.

00;04;28;18 - 00;04;46;04
Unknown
And we had the app on our vision goal actually to start 2025 this year. And I was like, all right, hey, we're going to put all of our eggs in this basket. I called our team, we started to figure out what it would look like to build a prison or an app that's, available for a prison tablet.

00;04;46;04 - 00;05;09;18
Unknown
Obviously, there's a lot of different nuances and security that goes on, on those specific tablets. It's not like just the mainstream market where they can have access to anything. And so we had to figure this out. We went from idea to implementation in six months, January of 2021, we piloted it. And then when we started roll it out across the country and now we have 2.4 million users a year, that connect with our application.

00;05;09;18 - 00;05;33;27
Unknown
Put that in perspective. There's about 1.2 million tablets in circulation within the United States prison system. I believe in the next 2 to 3 years, there will be every individual, which is about 2.4 on any given day, that we'll have access to a tablet, by the end of 2028. And, this app exists on every single one of their tablets.

00;05;33;27 - 00;05;55;27
Unknown
It's like a Netflix of faith based content, if you will. And so pretty much every church in North America, whether it be there, we can experience worship music, podcasts, devotional content, the chosen Bible project, anybody that's faith based, pretty much that captures and distributes content. It's available to these guys 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

00;05;55;27 - 00;06;16;10
Unknown
And this month, we feel like, prayerfully, that we'll cross over a million salvations, and that's a million different individuals that have click that button that they want to accept Jesus as their leader and forgiver of their life. And so yeah, man, it's been amazing. Wow. So 1 million salvations. You kind of just shared that briefly. That is so that's so much impact.

00;06;16;10 - 00;06;40;07
Unknown
That is a massive, the kingdom is being completely transformed in the prison systems because of this app. Yeah, like 1 million salvations. The app is the vehicle, right? The content is the vehicle. God's doing the work, however you're calling. Right is being is being lived out. There's people that are listening to this podcast that are wondering how they can make it.

00;06;40;11 - 00;07;01;02
Unknown
Not everybody's going to make an impact of a million salvation. That's right. That's a very unique impact. But what what got you started in this bike ministry? What was the decision that and then I want to go into how you also, Anthony how you got, started in this thing. But what was the decision that what caused you to launch it like why what's the why?

00;07;01;04 - 00;07;19;29
Unknown
One thing that you said there before I answer that question is that, not everyone is going to have that impact. And I think that that is honestly the hesitation that a lot of people have, that they feel like, man, if I'm not having a million salvations, then I'm not really being used by God. And I think that that's even often, a lie that the church sells.

00;07;19;29 - 00;07;44;08
Unknown
I can't tell you how many times, like pastors, in my life have been like, oh, man, you know, God's favor or anointing is on your life with the impact or the response that you're getting. And I don't completely agree with that. I honestly think that each and every one of us have a different role to play in the kingdom, and that God smiles on the person that saves one just as much as he smiles on the person that saves 1 million.

00;07;44;11 - 00;08;07;19
Unknown
And so in this whole plan that we don't understand, or can't even begin to comprehend of how God is using each and every one of us individually, throughout our lives to fulfill something that he ultimately wants to fulfill. It really comes down to just being open to say, yeah, I'm a vessel and I'll be used however, you want me to be used.

00;08;07;19 - 00;08;24;03
Unknown
And so, I would I just wanted to say that because I think that that's literally, that's been a struggle of even mind, like, is my worth and my value placed in ultimately, like, what God wants to accomplish through my life or these big numbers. And so I think it's where a lot of pastors get stuck.

00;08;24;03 - 00;08;42;08
Unknown
Yeah, right. And it's a number. It turns into a numbers game. Yeah. And I think if your heart is open and you're like, God, use me however you want, whether it's 1 or 1 million, you might see a giant response, but not always. And that's okay too. So, but to answer your question on how I got started, I grew up a pastor's kid in Las Vegas.

00;08;42;08 - 00;09;05;12
Unknown
My dad, leads a very large church there, and I was really into football. That was kind of my identity. For the first 22 years of my life, played it all the way through college. Vegas is different from your normal, metropolitan city where you've got suburbs, and then you've got lower income communities, and everything is separated, like in Vegas.

00;09;05;12 - 00;09;31;26
Unknown
It's one big melting pot. I went to school with kids that drove Ferraris to school all the way to kids that didn't know where their next meal was coming from. And then playing sports, obviously, allowed me to connect with a lot of kids that were different than me. Their upbringing was different than me, and some of my closest friends, were those of the lower income communities, with different morals, values, than what my dad raised me.

00;09;31;26 - 00;09;53;23
Unknown
And, and, I was kind of a partier, obviously, being in Las Vegas, that's pretty easy to do. Football kind of got to my head. And I ran around with some kids, that enjoyed the same things that I did. Thank God that God used football to keep being grounded, beyond it, allowing it to turn into addiction and other things that happened to other people.

00;09;53;23 - 00;10;15;00
Unknown
Well, two of my closest friends my freshman year, college, my went away to play football, ended up going to prison. And I was back volunteering, at one of the satellite campuses. At this point in time. And, basically a satellite campus is where you do church outside of the main campus. And they were doing it in a high school set up, turned down, and I was helping my brother.

00;10;15;00 - 00;10;31;14
Unknown
I'd work out there every Saturday and turning this high school into a living, breathing church. And I got a call one day, from my friend Ryan's mom, and she said, hey, Ryan's going away to prison. Is there anyone that your dad's church that can go and visit him? And, I called my dad, and he's like, nah, we don't have a prison ministry.

00;10;31;14 - 00;10;49;26
Unknown
And so for me, it was kind of an Isaiah moment. Like I felt like God was just tugging at my heart like, hey, you need to go do this. And so I went. And what turned into a visitation or went from a visitation turned into quick passion of wanting to reach more of the Ryans of the world. I had a newfound faith.

00;10;49;28 - 00;11;06;18
Unknown
While I was playing football, I started attending a local church, down in the area, and gave my life to Christ, that summer. And, so I was passionate about my faith. I knew what my faith was doing for me, and I wanted to share that with Ryan. And then ultimately, more of the Ryans of the world.

00;11;06;18 - 00;11;33;05
Unknown
And so I started a small group, in, Regional Justice Center, which the largest jail in North America, 70,000 people a year go through there. And I was probably about 28 years old at the time. And, what went from two people to 32 people? Really quickly inside of this jail, I felt like, man, I didn't have the tools or I wasn't equipped, in my own, faith journey to teach these guys.

00;11;33;05 - 00;11;54;18
Unknown
And so I started wheeling in a TV. And how old were you during this time? 2020. Yep. So put my dad's church on there, would show the the weekend experience and kind of sit with these guys for an hour and then open up for conversation afterwards. And, one day when I was helping set up and tear down inside of this high school, I was like, man, if we could do this in high school, why couldn't we do it in a prison?

00;11;54;21 - 00;12;13;27
Unknown
And so I started to figure out the pathway of, launching in the prison. And on Christmas Eve 2009, we launched our first campus inside of Florence McClure Correctional Institution. And it's a big Imax theater experience that we stream a local church and, provide volunteers on a weekly basis. And we basically plant a church inside of prisons.

00;12;13;29 - 00;12;47;13
Unknown
And that was our bread and butter. For the last 15 years. We now have, 80, some 80 plus 77, 77, 80 on the board. Right? Yeah. That we've launched and planted these churches inside of prisons all across the country partnering with local churches. And then the app was just in addition to that. So our whole mission, obviously, is to, introduce them to Jesus, but to connect them with the local church, because we believe that God behind bars is just a season of their life, the local churches, the rest of their life, 95% of anybody that's incarcerated is going to get out and walk the streets again.

00;12;47;16 - 00;13;05;19
Unknown
And so to connect them to the local church, that they have an opportunity, a family that they can call home before they ever leave prison and plug in with their family, upon their release, is extremely, vitally important to the success of them never going to prison again.

00;13;05;21 - 00;13;19;25
Unknown
What do you think? What do you think is, from what you've seen, right. You've you've been involved in this for a while now, 15 years. What do you see as the primary?

00;13;19;27 - 00;13;55;20
Unknown
Reason that, People are what do you see as the core behavioral or or mental or heart issue that causes people to end up in prison? Yeah. I think honestly, it's it's a hard, heart hardened heart. I, I think that we don't take that serious enough, in our own lives. In fact, I think that, men in general, due to the things that happen to us, whether it be in our childhood or over the course of our life, allow for our heart to get hardened.

00;13;55;20 - 00;14;22;20
Unknown
And obviously as, the way that God designed us is strong leaders, we can either go one way or another way. And so what I found is through a lot of the conversations that I've had, or even letters that we've received, is that the majority of these men, had some pretty tragic things happen to them in their life, or their father was absent and they allowed, their heart ultimately to become hardened.

00;14;22;20 - 00;14;41;19
Unknown
Then go to what was easily available to them. And that was the streets, whether it was selling drugs, doing things that to make quick money, because no one ever taught them how to be business leaders, and do things the right way. They have the hustle, but it's the wrong hustle. It makes sense. Yeah. And I'll just.

00;14;41;19 - 00;15;01;23
Unknown
I'll just add to, like, it's trauma based and identity based. Yeah. They'll they'll have a certain trauma in their life, whether it be a father wound, mother wound outside of that family wound that happens. And then from there, it's it's their identity gets wrapped up in something else, whether it be a different father, that's the wrong father, like a gang member or whatever it might be.

00;15;01;23 - 00;15;19;24
Unknown
And then they they idolize that and they end up idolizing things like money and stuff like that and making it the wrong way. And then from there, their whole path and their mindset turns into little by little, the enemy, in my opinion, uses that to bring them down the wrong path. And then ultimately, obviously, the law gets involved.

00;15;19;27 - 00;15;44;00
Unknown
Yeah. It's interesting. So one's perspective of of trauma and those trials makes a huge difference. Right. So we teach a lot on Romans 828, which is a critical verse. And our God works all things for the good of those that love him who have been called according to his purpose. So that sets our perspective up in a way where when we see trials and James one, two, three and four, which is consider a pure joy when you face trials.

00;15;44;02 - 00;16;03;25
Unknown
Those two verses set set us up for success, because when we now have trials or some trauma that happens, we know that God has a plan or we know that, that this is going to make us stronger. Right. And so what happens is, if people don't have that perspective when trials or trauma happens, that is it then becomes a part of they go victim to it.

00;16;03;25 - 00;16;29;15
Unknown
Yep. Which is number one. I would I would say from, from my understanding to you in the prisons, there's a lot of victims, guys that have gone victim in prison versus taking full responsibility. I think that might be a great training as we build out the, the prison, one day that. Yeah. That we, we need to have, we do a really powerful talk on victim responsible, pretty, pretty game changing talk that shifts a person's mindset, from victim to a responsible human being.

00;16;29;15 - 00;16;45;11
Unknown
And so I think that is a key part. And then once they go victim, then their heart gets hardened, right? Because there's only when we go victim. If we go back to Cain and Abel, right, he went victim. And then his heart, his heart was hardened. And then he locked in and then he he took matters into his own hands.

00;16;45;11 - 00;17;02;17
Unknown
Yeah. And so, yeah, I was just curious about that we work with because we work with so many men. Right. We do. We do a similar thing. What's that? Love. We're on similar paths and with different context. Right. So you're in the prisons. We're out here outside the prison. But men are dealing with the same issues. Yeah, they're in spiritual prison.

00;17;02;17 - 00;17;25;07
Unknown
Right. Or even emotional. Yeah. Yep. And I think that that's one thing that I've realized over 15 years of doing that is that these guys that are incarcerated, we often have our Hollywood view of that, and we're like, man, I it's almost like becomes our bar. At least I'm not as bad as that guy. But the reality is, is that we probably are a lot more alike than we think.

00;17;25;10 - 00;17;47;16
Unknown
There's just happens to be socially unacceptable. And then ultimately, their, their crime is, is physically able to be seen, or the, the prison that they're in is physically able to be seen versus some of us have gotten ourselves into this spiritual or mental prison that obviously isn't physically able to be seen, but our response is the exact same way that these guys have responded.

00;17;47;18 - 00;18;11;27
Unknown
Yeah. So yeah, they just said they haven't. They haven't, either broken the law or been caught breaking the law. Right. I have, we have I have a belief that we're we're all we're all criminals. Some of us are just more arrestable than others, right? So. Right. We've all done criminal things. We've all done things that we should not have done, but some of us.

00;18;11;29 - 00;18;33;18
Unknown
Right? We we've had different consequences. Yeah. And so all of us have that spirit. The spirit of the flesh. Right. That wants to go do I wants to sin and, and talk about being in a prison. Right. There's there's a lot of human beings that are in a mental or an emotional, emotional prison or they're stuck with their own thoughts or their own emotions that they can't get past.

00;18;33;24 - 00;18;58;07
Unknown
Maybe the emotion of anger or depression or fear. Right. And so we're stuck in these prisons, just the same way that that these people are. So I say the human experience is the same. Yeah, right. The same experience. Just a just different context. Exactly. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. You got a lot of this talk about just this behavior and the psychology behind the behavior and the heart behind it, and on the heart and heart.

00;18;58;10 - 00;19;18;06
Unknown
So true. Right. When, when something goes wrong, I believe our hearts get hardened. And there was a question I wanted to ask you before we go into that, something else is what, what would be an example of a hardened heart? So how do you know if you have a hardened heart? May I say you're not in prison, and so you're living life.

00;19;18;08 - 00;19;39;27
Unknown
What's that look like? I would yeah, I would say it's just, it starts with your marriage, honestly. Like, if you if you just. That's just a great example. Maybe it didn't start there, but a great example of that could be your marriage, right. Like if you have a hardened heart towards your wife and you start doing things to punish her in mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever, that looks like stonewalling or stonewalling.

00;19;39;27 - 00;19;56;26
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, that is the beginning of a hardened, hardened example of it. So I think if you take that example and you, you look at that, that's what leads to divorce. So it could be you could put that in any arena. You could do that with your faith. Something happens. You get church hurt, you hardened heart, you lose God.

00;19;56;29 - 00;20;14;11
Unknown
Right. And so I, I would say with the law, it's the same thing, you know, and you, you ultimately harden your heart and then it leads you down a path that obviously you don't want to go. What would you say, Anthony, is one of the hardest things you've ever gone through. Yeah. We'll go in there. I would if you're if you're open, if you're open to a message, we'll get you there.

00;20;14;12 - 00;20;36;26
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Hardest thing ever went through is, by double dissect me on my lower back. Throughout my back, puking on an empty stomach by taking zinc. And I was down for 11 days. Taken double oxy cons I it ruptured. The disc went out and down the canal. I couldn't walk for 11 days. Thought I was going to put a gun to my head.

00;20;36;28 - 00;20;58;17
Unknown
And just. And I had two kids at the time. My third hadn't been born. And I'm still reeling from the just the pain or the hopelessness. It was the pain because you couldn't I couldn't focus on anything else besides the pain. And if you like, if you don't have your health you have anything in my opinion, like it's once you lose hope.

00;20;58;19 - 00;21;22;09
Unknown
I think you said it, someone said if you can last so many days without water, so many days without this, but you can only last seven seconds without hope. I was starting to lose hope at that time, and being down in a sit up position for 11 days, I've taken double OxyContin, tens and in not doing anything in the surge and saying I can't do your surgery because you have a special insurance, I was like, well, I don't know what else to do here.

00;21;22;09 - 00;21;44;07
Unknown
I went to the emergency room twice. They're giving me double Dilaudid, which is a derivative of morphine to to numb the pain. But I couldn't move. Like peeing in a cup. You know, my parents coming over and feeding me, ultimately, obviously, I ended up getting the surgery and getting out of that, but I met God and stare the devil in the face at that time for sure.

00;21;44;10 - 00;22;04;27
Unknown
Yeah. Wow. Man. Yeah. Pain. My, I've shared it a couple times, but my wife's dealing with some, Yeah, some some intense, health challenges. And so she's working through it. At times it can feel a little hopeless. Yeah, it's a long term. It's been about 4 or 5 years. Wow. So that's a, I get that.

00;22;04;29 - 00;22;21;06
Unknown
And I've been seeing that with her being able to push through. She's got it. It's it's caused her to lean in a god at, like, the deepest core level. Yeah. Because she can't there's sometimes there's nothing. There's nothing that can be done to shift her specific issue right now or it's not happening. And so she just. It's all.

00;22;21;06 - 00;22;36;12
Unknown
It's all. God. Yeah. I think we're hope kind of set in for me in that moment was I was asking victim why why God why God? Why God. Like why are you doing this to me? Her nothing for I am change the question to what do you want me to do? And clear as day he said, learn the word, teach the word.

00;22;36;14 - 00;23;00;06
Unknown
And that's immediately when you know, ministry became the number one thing for me in my life. Well, and but wow, to that point, I think that like, we, we need to wake up to that a little bit, the whole why God aspect of it. I just had a conversation with a guy this past weekend, that basically was saying, hey, he doesn't believe in God anymore because of the things that have happened to him in his life.

00;23;00;08 - 00;23;17;13
Unknown
And I said, well, great, if you don't believe in him anymore, then he doesn't exist. So you have no one to put blame on because it doesn't he doesn't exist. So what are the things that you need to do from this point forward to change the outcomes of your life? Because the reality is bad things can happen to everybody, right?

00;23;17;19 - 00;23;39;13
Unknown
But we tend to put all the blame on God of why did you allow these things to happen to me? So therefore I'm no longer going to have a relationship with you. Then go back to Hope. If he's the only one who can control outcome, then you've just now lost all hope. And because it's now in your hands to control all of the outcome and so I often even tell my kids, I said, hey, look, you got to pray like it's up to God, but you got to work like it's up to you.

00;23;39;15 - 00;24;02;25
Unknown
He's looking for you to take action. Right? Move. I can't tell you how many guys that I sit across the rooms with that literally are sitting on their hands, soaking in, hey, this is what has happened to me. And therefore I'm going to blame God, and then I'm going to justify all of my sin. My, What my an ability to take action or move.

00;24;02;28 - 00;24;21;01
Unknown
And I'm just going to sit here and wait for God to respond like, no, the idea is that you respond first. In fact, as many of those that are listening right now are leaders, I think the greatest aspect of leadership is realizing when you are the actual tip of the spear. I don't know how many guys say you got to be the tip of the spear.

00;24;21;01 - 00;24;42;10
Unknown
You got to be the tip of the spear. But they're not the tip of the spear, the tip of the spear. What makes the tip so vitally important is that it goes first. The blade doesn't even cut until the tip penetrates whatever it's going to penetrate. And so as leaders, we have to go first in every area of our life if we want a different outcome, then we need to move first and pray like it's up to God, right?

00;24;42;10 - 00;25;04;16
Unknown
We want our wife to love us, then we need to love or we want our wives to love us more. We need to love her first. We want her to respect us more. We need to respect her first. And so I think us as men in everything that we do, whether it be parenting, work, spouse, whatever it is, our relationship with God, we have to go first.

00;25;04;16 - 00;25;24;26
Unknown
It's not some magic genie that's going to just pop success on your front door and walk away. If you live your life right now, it's every aspect of your life. You're going first and saying, you know what, God, whatever the outcome is, I'm going to trust you. Good or bad. I'm going to trust you that it is for the good of me.

00;25;24;29 - 00;25;52;03
Unknown
So yeah, passive, passive men are ruining families and the country, right? Passivity, weakness. And it's the it's the, the behavior that is a learned behavior where if you, you basically take take a step back and you don't choose to go first. So there's a lot of passivity in my life was a was very destructive. I would learn and I would wait for Jessica to make some decisions instead of making the decisions and moving forward.

00;25;52;06 - 00;26;05;22
Unknown
Like, and a lot of guys can fall into that trap, even with simple things like date night. Hey, what do you want to do? Our wives want us to lead. They really do, right? And so it's. No, it's no, it's not a. Hey, what do you what do you want to do for dinner? It's. Hey, babe, I got this plan for dinner.

00;26;05;22 - 00;26;23;06
Unknown
Does that work? Yep. You know, and so it's actually taking the lead, which it's again, it's easy to fall into, especially if you have a strong woman. And it's because she's going to want to take the reins with my wife. Jessica is a very strong woman. Is she wants to she likes leading and being in control because it makes her feel protected, like she's in control of her life and relationship.

00;26;23;06 - 00;26;44;12
Unknown
And so I've had to actually like grab almost physically grab the reins, and take them back because she wanted to lead. She said she wanted me lead. She did an a heart level. Want me to lead. But man, me leading was fear for her because if I lead her the wrong way, like a previous relationship did, then that's like, that's the worst thing that could happen.

00;26;44;12 - 00;26;58;18
Unknown
So she's like, hey, I want you to lead, but I don't know how. I don't know how to, I don't know how to have you lead. And so I had to pull the reins and actually start taking it and being willing to battle with her for those reins and say, hey, I'm. I'm leading here, I love you, I'm leading.

00;26;58;18 - 00;27;16;06
Unknown
I'm going to take care of you. Don't worry, I will mess up. But man, I will lead and I will course correct as I lead. How long did it take you to figure out that when your wife wanted to take control, it had nothing to do with you but past trauma? Because I think that that's important. Like the fact that you even understand that.

00;27;16;10 - 00;27;35;12
Unknown
Yeah, is huge into a relationship. But we all, we all have we all have our past wounds and almost all of us operate from our past wounds, as well as what I as what I've learned. And so all of us have a, we have a question that if we didn't get this question answered with a yes as a kid, we try to get that question answered as an adult.

00;27;35;15 - 00;27;53;14
Unknown
So if we didn't feel loved as a kid, we use our spouse as a way to try to feel loved, which is unfair to them. Yeah. So if we didn't feel safe as a kid, we use our spouse to create that safety. If we didn't feel wanted, we use our our spouse or other relationships to to try to feel wanted.

00;27;53;14 - 00;28;14;22
Unknown
So we we force them into a weird position where if they can't be themselves, they're always having to. That's where codependency comes from. It's now you. You're like, you need the other person versus being comfortable. When God talks about, us coming together as one, it's not saying be the same person. It's two separate people that are now tied together.

00;28;14;24 - 00;28;32;20
Unknown
Right. So you have your still your own thoughts, your own beliefs, your own passions. You still are an independent person, but you're now like, molded together. And so, yeah. So if we don't get the question answered with a yes like myself or am I loved, man, we're gonna we're gonna live our entire lives trying to get that question answered with a yes.

00;28;32;20 - 00;28;50;19
Unknown
And every time it doesn't get answered with a yes, it throws us into survival mode. And then we're trying to like, for me, it was me. Am I significant or am I am I successful? Right? I struggled feeling accepted, so I chose as a kid, hey, I'm going to do everything I can to be significant. So that's where a lot of this success came from.

00;28;50;19 - 00;29;10;00
Unknown
And starting businesses and launching things and launching ministries was I was like, I subconsciously was using that to fulfill my own, my own needs until I eventually healed that part of myself where I don't need significance or success from outside of me. My God loves me exactly who I am. Yeah, that's what we talk about a lot about identity in Christ.

00;29;10;00 - 00;29;29;06
Unknown
It's thrown out all over all the time, but no one knows. Hack. How do you shift your identity in Christ? How do you actually operate from that place? Was just saying, yep, I got to shift my identity to be comfortable. My identity in Christ was like, what does that even mean? Your identity in Christ? And it's so vague sometimes.

00;29;29;08 - 00;29;49;15
Unknown
And that's where a lot of I believe inmates or get their, their identity so broken. You talked about trauma and identity. Their identity is just so far off base that they now think they have to go do something to be someone. But in reality, if we can pull our identity from Christ, which again, I'm not saying that's the wrong thing.

00;29;49;15 - 00;30;09;15
Unknown
I'm saying there's a process for, integrating your identity in Christ. I'm not just saying it already in a couple verses, but it's like it could be a multi-year, 5 or 10 year process of, like, shifting your identity to where you believe that you are beloved. You truly believe you're beloved and truly believe that you're loved and accepted and embraced.

00;30;09;17 - 00;30;31;28
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I, I hit a few things on that. Yeah, I've seen it time and time again. We had even one gentleman that, we just recently interviewed on our podcast, out of Missouri. Same thing. He grew up with, many men in the home, single mother who raised him, and he attached himself to one of her boyfriends and the persona that that guy carried.

00;30;32;01 - 00;30;56;08
Unknown
And then he spent the rest of his life, trying to basically have the exact same life that he did. It ultimately drove him to a point of crazy, literally, to where he committed a crime that now he'll spend the rest of his life, in prison. And so that identity, I think it starts with acceptance. Honestly, like, I see that time and time again, like even those that.

00;30;56;11 - 00;31;31;17
Unknown
Hey, man, I need this Jesus character to be forgiven. Well, then are you going to fully accept that you are forgiven and that he loves you and that you can start healing from those past mistakes? Because that's the turmoil that people get themselves and they give Jesus a try, but they never fully they might accept him as the person that, is talked about in the Bible or what history has said about him, but they've never fully accepted that he loves them in spite of everything that they've done, or fully even accepted that he is Lord of Lords, King of kings, and that he has the the ever changing power to transform our lives.

00;31;31;19 - 00;31;58;16
Unknown
It's starts with acceptance, accepting everything that he says to be truth as truth, and then shaping our identity in our lives off of those truths. That's so good. It's forgiveness that gets you over the hump. It's the Holy Spirit that comes in, washes you away, and then it's picking up the cross wherever that crosses for you. And walking in forgiveness.

00;31;58;18 - 00;32;23;15
Unknown
That's so good. And knowing that you probably going to screw up again. Right. But that he loves you in spite of it all, I really, I don't live my life, with that as a justification, but accepting that I know that I probably am not going to be perfect till the day that I die, and that I don't allow one simple mistake, or even a slip up to go back to something I used to do to derail me from all of the life change that's already taken place.

00;32;23;15 - 00;32;44;28
Unknown
That's what Satan uses to keep people in shame. Yeah, right. The shame cycle. It's the I am bad versus I did something bad. Yeah yeah yeah. And so I think forgiveness man it's it's so good. Forgiveness is a key part of, a key part of our identity in Christ. Right. That is one of the key pieces is you operate from a place of forgiveness and being forgiven.

00;32;45;00 - 00;33;06;18
Unknown
Versus always trying to earn forgiveness. Like there's nothing we can do to earn forgiveness. Yeah, and that's what a lot of, that's how. That's how I sometimes can pinpoint, overly, self-righteous or righteous, masked people is they're the ones usually many times doing the most good. Yeah. It's it's the people at church that are doing the most good that are volunteering the most.

00;33;06;25 - 00;33;25;00
Unknown
A lot of times, not always, but yeah, I can sniff it out because they're trying to earn their forgiveness. They're they're trying to make up for the, the darkness. That's maybe behind the scenes. Right. And maybe it's not from the past. Maybe they're living a life sometimes of of darkness. But the mask is hey, I'm I'm a great Christian.

00;33;25;05 - 00;33;55;15
Unknown
Right? And I'm giving back, a lot of the guys that we work with, that rock forgiveness and shame tend to be the thing that keep them trapped. And they they're the freedom. We have an experience. I rock where they get an opportunity to share some things that they really never shared before. And one of the most freeing moments when, when, when we choose to live in the light like that is when we're most powerful and free, and when we choose to hide things and keep it in the dark, that's where we're we're trapped.

00;33;55;17 - 00;34;16;09
Unknown
And that's where Satan wants us. If we sin, why we slip up watching some pornography or look at something inappropriate or do something. He wants us to not share that with anybody, and keep it in the dark. Right. And so I think, I wonder if the prisons have an opportunity for space, for a space for vulnerability, where they can share.

00;34;16;09 - 00;34;41;01
Unknown
Because, again, we create that space at these events and it like the guys release stuff that they've had shame and unforgiveness for, and it's incredibly impactful. Do prisons have a space for that? In fact, I would say that the majority of my spiritual growth has come from serving inside of prisons. And here in, those vulnerability is, in fact, like but that would be my encouragement as to any man is you want to grow spiritually.

00;34;41;01 - 00;34;59;17
Unknown
Like, don't just stuff your head in a Bible. Go out and be what Jesus was in the Bible to sub to a group of people that are different than you. It doesn't have to be prisons. I even get asked this all the time because I live on all sides of the fence. Some of my closest friends are special forces in the military.

00;34;59;20 - 00;35;25;00
Unknown
My best friend, has served as a detective of the police department for almost 20 years now, and we have conversations all the time, especially me. Like I'm a protector by nature. I have five children. And there are things, crimes, everything in prison that, obviously that sick in anybody, but they sicken me, too. And I don't ever justify, what these individuals have done is anywhere near acceptable.

00;35;25;00 - 00;35;48;19
Unknown
But what it has done for me is take my faith and take it to a perspective of literally, defying all understanding. It's more of God's perspective and and shaping my own heart and what God can do in the life of an individual, because I used to even struggle with it, like man inmates in this, or he did this or he did that.

00;35;48;22 - 00;36;14;27
Unknown
And it wasn't until like I started actually studying the Bible and living out my faith at the same time that these things started to stick out to me. But it was like when Moses was a murder and God used him to arguably have one of the biggest spiritual moments in the history of the world. Right. Paul was a murderer and in prison and, what, two thirds of everything that I shape my life on as a Christian was written by an inmate.

00;36;14;29 - 00;36;42;02
Unknown
Like what God has done in and through these individuals over the course of time. Like, I don't want to be the roadblock, the spiritual roadblock to stop God from raising up the next Paul or raising up the next Moses. And I don't know who that's going to be. And so I tend to ignore, I guess, would be the right word of what these people could have possibly done and just share the love and hope of Jesus with them.

00;36;42;02 - 00;37;03;11
Unknown
And then obviously pray that the Holy Spirit does his job and literally transforms them into world changers. The next Moses, the next Paul. And I don't try to allow my own emotions or feelings to stand in the way of that, you know? So the first, first kind of cross was an inmate two. Yeah. First guy Jesus takes him to heaven with him was an inmate.

00;37;03;13 - 00;37;26;13
Unknown
In fact, Jesus himself. Art King of king, Lord of Lords, was labeled an outlaw by society. And so, yeah, I, I truly, I wouldn't ignore the fact that, some of these people have committed some pretty heinous crimes. But I also don't think that they're too far gone for God to do something great in their life.

00;37;26;13 - 00;37;48;13
Unknown
But there there is a time for them to be vulnerable. And I would say a decision for them to follow. Christ is very vulnerable in a prison. You ever seen, this a pretty vulgar example. You ever seen Mayor of Kingstown? It's pretty crazy show. I started watching it. Yeah. It's pretty. It's pretty crazy. But that is obviously Hollywood on steroids version of prison, right.

00;37;48;13 - 00;38;11;21
Unknown
But in prison, as they're going to accept Christ, they're battling identities inside gang affiliations and stuff like that. And when they make up Jesus, the Lord of their life, they're saying no to everything else. And so that is a huge vulnerability in the decision, whether they're leaving, different faiths or whether they're leaving a different gang or whatever it might be.

00;38;11;21 - 00;38;31;20
Unknown
So those decisions we don't take lightly by any means, and we steward it so well. One, one quick example of that is I had, the leader of the Aryan Brotherhood, on one of my podcasts. He's actually on death row. I had asked to interview, death row inmate, and the warden of the prison was like, man, I don't know.

00;38;31;21 - 00;38;53;24
Unknown
It's the first time ever that we would allow that. And so he went down the, death row unit, and they've got the Pando app, and he said, hey, the, founder of Pando wants to interview one of you guys. Obviously, every one of them raise their hand. To be interviewed. And he goes, well, if you want to be interviewed, write me a letter and tell me why you should be interviewed.

00;38;53;26 - 00;39;11;10
Unknown
Well, one guy, out of the 20 plus that are in that unit wrote the letter, and he wrote the letter. Then he went down and had the warden had a conversation with them. They set him up for the interview. First time ever that, a guy in the G5 lockdown unit gets to come into the general population.

00;39;11;12 - 00;39;26;12
Unknown
They walk him out, he's shackled from his hands to his feet. They sit him down in front of me. First time I've met this individual, and I said to the warden for the podcast, can we uncuff him? And he looks me dead in the eye and he goes, Jake, do you know what this guy has done with his hands?

00;39;26;12 - 00;39;43;02
Unknown
He's like, I don't feel safe or comfortable. Uncuff in him. And I looked across at Anthony. I said, and I was like, are you okay? Are we good? And this guy's name is Anthony, too, by the way. Not this year. Okay. I said, are we good? And he looks at me and he goes, you led me to Christ.

00;39;43;02 - 00;40;07;07
Unknown
We're good. And so he cuffs him and we have this conversation in for over an hour, sitting about this far away from each other. And I never felt uncomfortable the entire time this dude preached the paint off the walls on the podcast. And then at the end of it tells me that he's going to lay down his patch as the leader of the Aryan Brotherhood, and follow Christ.

00;40;07;10 - 00;40;25;02
Unknown
And so the podcast gets done, they're locking him back up. And I look across at him and I said, hey, man, this is going to be shown in prisons all across America. Are you good with that? And the question I was basically asking was like, your life could be in jeopardy. And he knew exactly what I was asking in.

00;40;25;02 - 00;40;41;08
Unknown
And honestly, one of the most badass things that somebody has ever said to me, he looks right at me and he says, if it's the Lord's will, then let it be done. And so it was like, would we be willing to lay down our life for Christ? Like, that's where I get challenged by these guys every single day.

00;40;41;08 - 00;41;12;21
Unknown
It's like, man, their their passion for Jesus and what he's doing in their heart and mind is so real. It's so raw that someone's willing to say, man, I'll lay down my life for that. I don't know many men in my life who literally lead ministries, world life changing ministries that would lay down their life. I really don't, I don't I can't sit here and say with 100% confidence that even I would if I'm just being vulnerable and honest in the fact that these guys are able to look me dead in the eye and say, hey man, if it means my life and that's the Lord's will, then let it be done.

00;41;12;21 - 00;41;31;06
Unknown
And those are the things where challenges my own spirituality in the men that we serve on a daily basis. So. Good. What, what would you what, what else would you say is that is one of the more impactful stories? That's a pretty it's a pretty incredible story of the of the impact of what you guys are doing.

00;41;31;08 - 00;41;55;28
Unknown
Right. What else? I'll. I'll share a quick one there. Yeah. We got this lady Shannon, who is, this ninth descendant of Joseph Smith and, she's sitting in a prison cell, affiliated with Ms. 13. Her bunkie was Ms. 13 at the time. She had a pretty dark past with her kids. One of her kids passed away, ends up getting double DUI, ends up in prison.

00;41;56;00 - 00;42;14;18
Unknown
She's sitting. And this is the first person we ever launched in in Las Vegas. And she's sitting in the back row. And if you know, Central Church Judge Wilhite is preaching on screen in a leather jacket. Well, what she's used to viewing God through is the LDS format. And so when she sees Judd on stage preaching in a leather jacket, she's like, what the heck is this?

00;42;14;18 - 00;42;37;05
Unknown
This guy's talking about Jesus, I know Jesus. What? What is he doing? Right? So anyways, she gets put into solitary for passing things in the back row of that. That room. And as she's in solitary, she's at this point, shivering so bad she ended up losing like 10 or 15 pounds while being in darkness. She said she stared the devil in the face.

00;42;37;08 - 00;42;57;17
Unknown
Decided she was going to end it all. And, as soon as she's putting bed sheets around her neck, strap them to the door. She gets a knock at the door. Murphy, Harris, don't give up. We got a fresh start, kid waiting in the chaplain's office for you in a fresh start. Kit, what that is, is it's a duffel bag full of goodies of the simplest things.

00;42;57;19 - 00;43;16;16
Unknown
A journal, some lotion, some candy. And because it's literally stuff that we can bring in, write a pencil and she'll describe to you. You had no idea what that pencil means to me. So I can write down my thoughts. You have no idea what that lotion means to me because of the smell, and the lotion actually has scent and I can feel human.

00;43;16;18 - 00;43;35;06
Unknown
She goes, that bag saved my life. She then donates to God behind bars. We bring her back, she gets out of that, obviously donates to God behind bars. We bring her back inside. She gives a bag. We go dorm to dorm. She gets one of those bags that every single woman in there. Over 800 women. And she's now just going prison to prison, sharing her story.

00;43;35;06 - 00;44;03;01
Unknown
Really? Wow. Yeah. That's a special story. I love it. We yeah. The forgotten right. The way I look at people in prison man is there the out of sight, out of mind. That would be very difficult. I couldn't even imagine being out of sight and out of mind from my family because after a while.

00;44;03;03 - 00;44;20;23
Unknown
Right. I believe that happens, right? Maybe initially people are visiting them, but then after, probably a fairly short while, people stop showing up. Yeah. When they know somebody is going to be in there for a couple years or ten years, 15, 20 years. Yeah. So they are the forgotten. They're the lost ones. And so that's why I love what you guys are doing.

00;44;20;23 - 00;44;44;08
Unknown
Are they? And honestly, a lot of the times it's like, even some of the guys that are doing life, it's, it's the family's protection to their own peace. And pain that they cut them off because it's almost like, this person is basically dead yet still alive, existing on this rock. But I'll probably never see them again.

00;44;44;10 - 00;45;08;10
Unknown
And so the letters and the phone calls stop. Not because they don't love the individual, but it's like it's almost too painful of a reminder that this person is is literally the walking dead here on earth. When it comes to some of these individuals that will do life but never, ever get to have that visitation or, those, those life experiences.

00;45;08;10 - 00;45;31;01
Unknown
And so it's it's the family's response to their own pain, of trying to find some kind of peace and comfort in it. So, yeah, it's a real thing. We I just literally baptized a guy at our in Angola event that was struggle. The night that we spoke, he had that exact question. The same people that led me to Christ, are the same people that cut me off the second I came to prison.

00;45;31;03 - 00;45;50;26
Unknown
And, I just had to to quick little things for him. I was like, Man one some of us can be poor representations of who Jesus was. And I was like, I just want you to go read the red words. Don't read anything else in the Bible. Just read the red words. And those that say they know him and believe him.

00;45;50;28 - 00;46;13;15
Unknown
I was like, do they model anything that he was in those red words? And then you can see if it was a bad representation or not. But two is I was like, it could just be a response to their pain, man. Like we're selfish beings. And I'm not even saying that. That's completely selfish. I think that that, some people that that's how they guard their peace and, that's how they cope.

00;46;13;15 - 00;46;33;14
Unknown
Avoiding the. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So they just avoid it. And so, it could just be a response to that either way. Him, him having that acceptance of that. And I just asked him I said, show them grace and mercy. I was like, show them grace and mercy. And that ultimately transformed his life to where I got to baptize him a couple of weeks ago.

00;46;33;14 - 00;46;51;13
Unknown
So, so help him to overcome that pain because yeah, I again, I otherwise that was it. Was he out of prison. He is. He's in Angola and he'll do the rest of his life there. He's got two life sentences, gang activity. He's. He's in prison. Yep. So you. So you're able. I was curious around the baptism cause you have a lot of salvation, right?

00;46;51;13 - 00;47;25;08
Unknown
It's incredible the organization is doing with salvation. But what about baptisms? Yeah. Baptism go down. That's, honestly, that's different in every institution. So, some states allow, for baptism to take place. Other states don't, even if they don't allow for full water, submerge. We try to do some form of baptism where, the individual stands up publicly in front of his peers or her peers and confesses their faith to Jesus because that's really what baptism is at the end of the day, is a public confession that you're following Jesus.

00;47;25;08 - 00;47;49;00
Unknown
And so obviously we would encourage them to get fully baptized. But some of them are presented that same opportunity that we are. And so, we try to, to be creative and in and still allowing for that process to take place. But, it is very important that, for us in our spiritual pathway that someone, once they accept Christ, would, take that next step in baptism, for sure.

00;47;49;03 - 00;48;21;03
Unknown
So what's next? What's next for you guys? Well, we got a lot on the docket. Right now, one of the things that we're working on is got behind bars, music. We've got a incredible worship team. And, it started with us just leading worship inside of prisons. But, we're now kind of transforming, through the letters that we're receiving from inmates and conversations, that we're having to be their megaphone, through a musical expression.

00;48;21;05 - 00;48;57;08
Unknown
And so, we've actually just recently signed a deal with a label, and, this fall, hopefully we'll come up with our first album and all the lyrics, and those songs are written from literally the words of the people that we serve. And, we're really excited about what God could do through that. Obviously, flipping the script a little bit, prisoners are often the the last to receive everything that we, receive in the mainstream market, and we're going to allow them to be the first and hopefully allow God to do what he's going to do with the musical expression, to relate with people that I quick back to the beginning of

00;48;57;08 - 00;49;26;09
Unknown
this conversation, or in their own spiritual or or mental, emotional prison and that those words that we're hearing from the life change of these individuals in prison would also take, take life change on the world. And so, that's one thing we got coming up, a lot of more campuses. Anthony, I think, has probably close to 50 different, church plants that are on their board that they're trying to accomplish, going international this year.

00;49;26;09 - 00;49;48;15
Unknown
We're going to go to the Philippines, in July, launch our first campus over there, and, we've got other countries on the docket as well. And there are a lot of exciting things in South Africa, Italy, Honduras, first international going. Are we going? Yeah, July 5th, we end up Philippines. But, there's a thousand over 1000 state facilities here nationwide.

00;49;48;15 - 00;50;08;20
Unknown
We're in 77. So that's it. Wow. We're not even 10%. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And that is just physical campuses. Obviously, with the Pando app, we're over 250 facilities now, and reaching a ton there, but it's partly to grow both. And, yeah, the amount of users that are on the Pando app and then also Church Point, correct.

00;50;08;20 - 00;50;29;07
Unknown
In the Panda app, we have targeting not just state but jails juveniles in all different areas as well. Yeah. But as far as campuses, we target specific state facility, and over a thousand of those. So yeah, there's a lot of work to do. Yeah. I think culturally too is just continuing to, tell the story of what God is doing.

00;50;29;10 - 00;50;56;16
Unknown
He's blessed us with an amazing platform to share that. But, more than anything, showing society that, number one, these people are just people. And we can have our own notions and ideas of who they are, why they're there. I don't fully understand why certain people's lives look different than other people's lives. But what I do know is that our God remains the same in all of them.

00;50;56;19 - 00;51;20;25
Unknown
And to share that story, and I think often, he even uses some of the most, unconventional stories, to, to show that he's still a miracle worker and that, he can change the world through anybody. And so, that's the story that we want to continue to tell through our organization, as well as to really just showcase what God is doing inside of prisons.

00;51;20;25 - 00;51;38;25
Unknown
Nothing that we're strategically planning or intentionally trying to do, but that he's literally just using us as a vessel and as a tool, to show his miraculous, life changing power to the world. And that's really our heart at the end of the day. So it's great. Love it. Love what you two are doing in the entire organization.

00;51;38;28 - 00;51;58;02
Unknown
How how can people best support or or find out about it? Yeah. Honestly. God behind bars.com is our website. All of our social media platforms are just God behind bars. I'd say number one, become a fan of the social media. Just the videos alone will have you crying in your bed at night and soften your heart.

00;51;58;02 - 00;52;14;12
Unknown
And maybe some of us need that, but, Yeah, it's, God behind bars. Pretty much anything on any internet platform. All you got to do is type in, got behind bars, and you'll find us. So, yeah, I'm excited to spend more time with you guys. Hopefully get out to your ranch. You guys are local, which is fantastic, man.

00;52;14;12 - 00;52;31;27
Unknown
Just right here in Texas, which is a beautiful thing. And, Yeah. And we got we got Anthony coming out to one of the rock events in July. So yeah, super excited about that. And I told him be more strategic July. It sounds like hell on earth here in Texas. Yeah, I'm one of those weird dude that I would like for an artist.

00;52;31;28 - 00;52;48;05
Unknown
Yeah. If you want to pursue your. You want to like it, you're okay. I like the pain. Yeah. I'm weird. There we go. Yeah. Do you're in the right place? Yeah. Love, I appreciate you guys. And, yeah, I look forward to staying connected and. Yeah, growing these things together. Let's do it. Awesome. Thanks for having us.

00;52;48;11 - 00;52;54;03
Unknown
Yeah. Thank you.