Inside the Modern Church Crisis: Feminism, Silence, Soft Men & Revival | Martin & Millicent Sedra

In this powerful episode of Rise Up Kings, Martin and Millicent Sedra expose the real crisis within the modern church — a silent pulpit, passive men, and the loud takeover of feminism — and the need for revival. 

What happens when pastors avoid the hard truth?
What happens when men stop leading… and women are forced to?

This conversation isn’t comfortable — it’s convicting, biblical, and necessary. If you’re a man who feels stuck, silenced, or spiritually asleep… this episode is your wake-up call.

We confront:

- Soft Christianity vs. biblical masculinity
- How feminism rewired marriage roles
- Why women are angry and men are afraid
- The rise of nice guys and the fall of strong fathers
- The spiritual war for your home, your wife, and your legacy

 This isn’t about culture wars.
It’s about God’s original design for manhood, marriage, and mission.

📲 Connect with Martin & Millicent Sedra on Social:

Martin Sedra – Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martinsedra
Millicent Sedra – Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/millicentsedra
Millicent Sedra – YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MillicentSedra
Millicent Sedra – TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@millicentsedra
Martin Sedra – TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@martinsedra

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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:17:12
Unknown
Women are the weaker vessels. We are not as strong. God did not make us that way. Men are just constantly getting the worst rep. Constantly like being told that men we don't need you. It's so it's settable in our society to just bash on our husbands. How is he meant to function in his God given role? We need help.

00:00:17:16 - 00:00:33:14
Unknown
We actually need someone next to us to support us. We need a helper next to us. We've done this big, sweeping criticism of men as a whole saying all men are bad. I hate men when no, we actually need to praise the good men who are willing to protect us against the bad men. Feminism has told women in order to be valuable, you need to be like a man.

00:00:33:17 - 00:00:57:06
Unknown
So it's the most anti-woman movement we've told our protectors, those that God has given strength to in order to protect us. We told them we don't need you. A bit of agitation quickens the soul. As Paul says, the Word of God is there to encourage, correct and rebuke. I think your pastor should be 33% encouraging you, 66% correcting you, because how many know we're born sinners and we're sinful by nature?

00:00:57:07 - 00:01:15:11
Unknown
So really, when he. Welcome to the show. Thank you. It's an honor to be here, man, I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. I feel very masculine around you. Yeah. That's right. You're very masculine in the studio. Very masculine. Oh, yeah. Gray and black, baby, I love it, I love it, I love it. It's very masculine. The Arab out of me.

00:01:15:13 - 00:01:35:25
Unknown
Yeah. That's. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so kind of crazy. Stories I've been following. I've been following Millicent, right? Yeah. And, her videos, right, are just quite profound, right? They can bring goosebumps since you're actually saying the goose bump metric, the goose bump metrics like creating content that actually that that creates you. It doesn't give you the chills.

00:01:35:28 - 00:01:55:21
Unknown
It's not going to pass the test. It's one of our metrics for the social media team. It's gotta give the goose bumps. Yeah. So yeah, you've and I watch some of your videos where you have a powerful presence. You drop some fire on stage. And same with you, Martin. However, I first started seeing her, her videos and a lot of them went viral because they're important topics and conversations regarding masculinity and.

00:01:55:21 - 00:02:16:16
Unknown
Man, yeah, and it's very rare to see a woman's perspective. Yeah, I think it which is what made it so powerful. Right. A woman's perspective on a masculine man. Yeah. And, it's just such a relevant conversation. In today's culture, I think a lot of women are afraid to stand up and say, actually, no, like masculinity is not toxic men.

00:02:16:16 - 00:02:34:13
Unknown
We need your strength. We need leadership. We actually want your protection. We want you to cover us and protect us and guide us in righteousness. And even me, like, like for talking about these topics, I get all kinds of pushback. A lot of people call me a pick me girl and they say, you're, you know, you're trying to just appeal to men.

00:02:34:13 - 00:02:57:28
Unknown
You're trying to appeal to a male audience, by talking about these things. And truthfully, no, I look at society and I see, it makes me very angry to see that men are just constantly getting the worst rep. Constantly like being told that men, we don't need you constantly. It's so acceptable in our society to just bash on our husbands and say, you know, like men is so toxic.

00:02:57:28 - 00:03:16:09
Unknown
We don't need you, hate men. I saw a video like, of a table talk with all these women just saying, like, yeah, we hate men. And, like, that's just acceptable in our society. I'm like, no, I'm sorry. That is so unacceptable. And that would never pass. If a table. Can you imagine if a table of men was sitting around saying, yeah, we hate women.

00:03:16:12 - 00:03:35:12
Unknown
It's such double standards and it's all all risen from the feminist movement. And yeah, it's it's nothing other than, yeah, I'm just I'm sick of that narrative. And truthfully as well, we're harming ourselves as women because we're telling our protectors that we don't need you. Yeah, the devil so smart. He has turned the husband and wife against each other.

00:03:35:18 - 00:03:50:26
Unknown
Instead of the woman being the greatest helper to the husband. The woman has become the biggest critic of the husband. Yeah, God. When he created Eve, he said, I will make a helper suitable for him. This help meant to lift up his arms, strengthen him, bless him, pray for him. Yeah. Support him even when he does a mistake.

00:03:50:26 - 00:04:07:23
Unknown
Cover his mistake. Yeah. But instead, the woman now putting down her husband. How do you expect your husband to lead you when all you do is sneak down on him? How do you expect your husband to be bold and courageous when all you do is you're yelling at him? You're nagging on him? Yeah. The Bible literally says, better to live on a corner of a roof than to live with a nagging woman.

00:04:07:27 - 00:04:26:29
Unknown
Like the Bible literally says that. And one of the what the feminists don't understand is that when you honor your husband and obviously I'm not talking about abusive husband, I'm not talking about a man that hates you and cheats on you. I'm talking about when you have a godly husband, when you honor him, when you love him, when he speak well of him, when you become a helper to him, your marriage will be so much more blessed.

00:04:26:29 - 00:04:40:03
Unknown
A lot of people look at our marriage and we've been married now eight years. They look at our marriage and I'm like, you guys are so happy. You got us so joyful. I'm like, you know why we have joy in our marriage? Because we both understand our role. And I'm not trying to be her, and she's not trying to be me.

00:04:40:03 - 00:04:55:29
Unknown
Yeah, she's not trying to wear the pants and lead me and I'm not trying to be feminine and allow her to lead. I'm becoming the head of the house. She is my helper. And this is how marriages are created to be. Yeah, yeah. So that's the blessing. The blessing is found. And when you submit to God, the Bible is very clear.

00:04:55:29 - 00:05:13:13
Unknown
Genesis to God created a male and female in his image. So number one, the woman is not under the men and values. She can't even function. That's what the women need to understand. When God says, submit to your husband or be a helper to your husband, he's not telling you that because you're more foolish than him and you're more stupid than him, or because you're less.

00:05:13:15 - 00:05:31:27
Unknown
God loves you both. God loves you both exactly the same. But this is an issue of function. That house divided against itself will not stand. If Milly does not support me, helps me, loves me, speak well of me. This marriage will not work and same thing if I don't love her, cherish her, lead her and protect her. This marriage will not work.

00:05:31:27 - 00:05:52:14
Unknown
Yeah it works when you step into God given role. Yeah, yeah it's. Yeah, it's I, I just I the devil so smart woman now are more depressed than ever. Men now so depressed like I was sitting in the, you know the Bobby movie that came out last year. Oh, man, that was disgusting. The Bobby movie that came out, that came out last year with this effeminate can in a pink, you know, shirt.

00:05:52:14 - 00:06:11:02
Unknown
Oh, they paint him out like he's so stupid. Actually, a song just came out. I don't know who it's by. Something in pop culture where it's just talking about her, man, and she's like, is he stupid? No. He's dumb. Is he slow? Like, it's just. So why are you so vocal? So just put down men and they're just like, yeah, you're right.

00:06:11:02 - 00:06:28:25
Unknown
In the Bobby movie, can is just paint it out. Is this like, stupid idiot that has no vision, no drive? And he, he's a sad little man that has to be led by his strong. You got to understand, as a woman, your husband is already struggling with a lot of voices. And he said, yeah, that your husband has people at work that put him down.

00:06:28:25 - 00:06:45:08
Unknown
He might have a bad boss that puts him down. There's a devil speaking to him and making him insecure. And on top of that, his wife is putting him down on top of that, his wife is nagging. His wife is not speaking well of him. How is he meant to function and his God given role? I know men are tough and all, but we need helper.

00:06:45:10 - 00:07:01:26
Unknown
We actually need someone next to us to support us. We need a helper next to us. I would not be able to do what I'm doing if it wasn't for Millie. I would not be able to do ministry and preach around the world and travel. If it wasn't for Millie. Millie is my greatest help. I always tell people this if I was to hire one person, it would be my wife.

00:07:01:28 - 00:07:19:26
Unknown
I would not hire anyone. The one person I would hire would be Millie. Why? Because she I trust her. She's my helper. She doesn't put me down. And even when I make a mistake. Stop telling your husband. Yeah, you made this mistake. Cover his sin. We're not perfect. Just because we're the leader doesn't mean we're always going to be right.

00:07:19:28 - 00:07:34:20
Unknown
What do you think? What does that look like? I love that, I love it. What is that? What is covering? Is sin look like? Well, because there's a there's a constant tension in marriages right now between the, the there's a leadership struggle happening for sure where the woman is trying to lead. And that was a lot of our relationship with Jessica.

00:07:34:20 - 00:07:50:24
Unknown
So my wife is an incredibly, amazing, super powerful Ray. You should see her on stage. Yeah. This is fun because it's a new world. And what's wild is you guys are visiting from Australia, right? You guys live in Australia and in Sydney, and, and we just. I just messaged you. I'm like, hey, you should come on the podcast.

00:07:50:24 - 00:08:12:04
Unknown
You're like, oh, perfect. I'm in Dallas. I'm like, oh, wow, this is fantastic. But Jessica, yeah, it was at one of the top like leaders in her organization that when she was 23, she had she had like 5000 people that were under her. And she was leading. And so she's a hyper, hyper ambitious, powerful woman. And so but she ended up by creating and she says she created a divorce, right?

00:08:12:07 - 00:08:29:23
Unknown
With that level of of her leading. There was a there was confusion. There was there was a battle. Yeah. And so she ended up in a divorce. Yeah. Yeah. While leading that way, she had a lot of success and a divorce and a broken marriage. And so into our marriage she had to re learn. Yeah. What it meant to to submit.

00:08:29:23 - 00:08:50:18
Unknown
Yeah. What it meant to allow me to lead and create space for me to lead. Right. Because I can create my own space. But if a woman's not creating the space, it's very difficult. And so she creates space that allows me to step into and and she allows me to lead her. And it's a very vulnerable thing for a woman to allow a man to lead.

00:08:50:19 - 00:09:09:24
Unknown
Yeah. Probably one of the most vulnerable things. And it can be very scary for. You're right. You're right. And by the way, it's very important. So the woman give space for the men to lead and which, you know, the most limited. I'm not even letting their husband lead. Let your husband lead. And then on the other side, I would tell the men to empower your woman to use her God given gifts and skills.

00:09:10:01 - 00:09:27:06
Unknown
Because there's two extremes the woman doesn't know, doesn't want to let the man lead. But then there's men who oppress their wives. Skill and gifting. I have to admit, Mel is a very gifted person. Milly is great. She has way more followers than me, way more influence on me, on social media and as a husband. My job is not to look at that and be like, Know I'm the leader.

00:09:27:09 - 00:09:43:13
Unknown
Me being the leader does not mean my wife is not gifted and she's not skilled. Yeah, she's gifted, she's skilled. And the husband's role is to see the gifting on your wife's life and elevated to that position. But as your husband elevates, you don't get big headed and don't get prideful and begin to lead the marriage. Which is weird.

00:09:43:17 - 00:10:01:14
Unknown
Yeah. Tension. Like, Milly knows that I push her, but at the same time as I'm her leader, it's it's weird. You know, it's important for our our, And that's that was a challenge with me initially in our marriage was I was insecure. I was I had a fake confidence. Yeah, right. Moving into my marriage. So I was confident on the outside.

00:10:01:14 - 00:10:18:24
Unknown
But knowing how powerful Jessica was, I'd watch her speak on stage and I would get it would create some insecurity in me. It was really interesting. Yeah. And I would notice myself sometimes do little jabs or say little comments and I'm like, what did I say that? Yeah, yeah. Oh crap. That was me trying to pull her down a little bit.

00:10:18:27 - 00:10:40:15
Unknown
Mike. How interesting. Wow. So so a powerful woman can be can create, fear or insecurity in a man. And so I think what we've done here at, like, Rise of Kings is we want to elevate men. We want to help them step into confidence and healing so that they will then choose to elevate their wives. Right. So I want I want more men elevating their wives because they're secure.

00:10:40:20 - 00:11:03:16
Unknown
Exactly. But it's very hard to elevate your wife when you're in your heart. So true. Yeah. And I believe us as wives, we have the responsibility to give, as we were saying, our husbands the grace to fail. Sometimes, like wives, expect their husbands as the leader to be perfect to 100% of the time, which is such a fair, unfair expectation and unfair.

00:11:03:18 - 00:11:29:08
Unknown
That's not realistic at all. The best leader, the best. A king of a nation is not going to get it right. 100% of the time, but a good king, or a good leader or a good CEO. They cannot lead the company, the nation, the group, whatever it is they are leading. If the people under that leader don't trust that that leader is there to bring it forward and to take things forward and give their leader the space to fail, sometimes that's what it means.

00:11:29:11 - 00:12:06:27
Unknown
Love covers a multitude of sins. That's what the Bible says. Like, get behind them, support them, and understand they're not going to get it right 100% of the time. Give them grace for sometimes and just support them. The reason I see it as my top priority and responsibility to just back my husband 100% is because I know at the end of the day, his role as the head of the home, as my husband, there is so much pressure and weight and responsibility on him as the leader because before God, as the head of the home, God will primarily hold him responsible for the spiritual condition and the righteousness of our home before God will hold

00:12:06:27 - 00:12:24:16
Unknown
me responsible. Because at the end of the day, you are the head. Which means when Adam and Eve fell into sin, although it was her that ate the fruit first, the first person that God called out to was Adam. And God said, men, where are you? And I believe God is still saying that in our culture today. Men, where are you?

00:12:24:16 - 00:12:52:21
Unknown
He's calling men to rise up and lead. And that's a very big weight and responsibility. So I don't want to come at you and give you more weight and pressure because I'm constantly nagging and saying, no, you shouldn't have done it like this or that was a bad decision or never tell your husband I told you so. Like when he calls the shot and makes a decision of what direction we're going and it happens to end up not be the best decision, I will say I told you so, but that's not giving them the grace to lead.

00:12:52:23 - 00:13:09:05
Unknown
So by giving them the grace back on that point. So covering a sin, do you guys have an example of covering covering the sin if you're open to sharing anything? So when was a time where he messed up where you actually handled it, handled it in that way, right? Where you were covering his sin? I was just hard because you were pretty much perfect all the time.

00:13:09:08 - 00:13:26:26
Unknown
Okay, I say easy to cover someone so perfect as a part of one time. Like, for example, I went on a hype. I was like, I want to dress more masculine. So I bought like ten, 11 bottom ups. I went to the shop and instead of buying two, I bought like ten. That's just a stupid mistake. But this year, that's the first year when it comes to my head.

00:13:26:26 - 00:13:44:12
Unknown
I bought ten bananas. Yeah, I just went in a hype. I bought every color. Blue is a waste of money and I spent like $1000 or $800 a year. That is good. And I still don't wear them today, and it's just little stuff like that. Where Millie could have said. I thought she told me not to buy them.

00:13:44:12 - 00:13:58:11
Unknown
Like she literally told me. I don't think you're gonna look good in them. I was like, no, I do look good in it. So I bought it. And behold, I didn't look good in it after all. Now. And now they're all in the bin. And it just a little stuff like that where pick your battles. I don't start arguments.

00:13:58:14 - 00:14:16:10
Unknown
Don't start arguments with your husband for for for little stupid stuff. Pick your battles. And if you really want to talk about something, say, hey, can we sit down and talk? Don't be this nagging woman that there's always a problem. Like, how much problems can you have with your husband? Yeah. I think the best way to deal with drama, if you have a problem is your husband and wife is, sometimes bring it up in a spot.

00:14:16:10 - 00:14:31:28
Unknown
But if you really want to, there's some amazing, healthy marriages where they sit one hour a week when we sit down. And it's not a date night, it's not, you know, watching a movie together. It's simply one hour a week where you sit down with your wife and your husband, and you both share ideas. Yeah. Of, hey, I didn't like when you did that.

00:14:31:28 - 00:14:47:27
Unknown
And that means you're not when when you schedule it. That means you're not emotional and you're not just shouting it or you're not angry. You've thought about it, you've reasoned. And now let's sit down and talk. Yeah. So if you have a problem, it's not about not talking about it. It's just doing it the right way. Not in anger with with self-control.

00:14:48:01 - 00:15:06:10
Unknown
Yeah. So you two talk a lot about feminism and how it's, how to how to properly lead in a marriage and submit inside of a marriage. But let's talk about feminism for a moment from the perspective of how it's affected men. Yeah. So how do you think feminism has affected men? Yeah. So like, we're our goal is to, right.

00:15:06:10 - 00:15:33:02
Unknown
Help more women step into a place where, I believe that there's their independence. The idea of this, fully independent woman has done a lot of damage to, I mean, millions of people and the relationships. Yeah. And so that that is in direct alignment with the idea of with with feminism and feminism, I believe, brought that. So how is it affected men and what are the pain points that men now experience?

00:15:33:04 - 00:16:00:24
Unknown
Because of feminism? Yeah. What are your thoughts? Yeah. Well, obviously it's affected the man because it's told men we don't need you. It's told men that your strength and your leadership is toxic. What feminists have done is instead of recognizing that there are some men who abuse their authority, there are men who lead by a domineering spirit where they, as you spoke about before, there are a lot of men who are insecure, and so they are possibly threatened by the women in their world.

00:16:00:24 - 00:16:20:16
Unknown
And so they use their leadership to criticize and to put down or even to physically abuse the women in the world. But what feminists have done is rather than recognizing that there are some men like that, but then there are really good men that actually want to lead you into what's best for you. They actually they're using their leadership for the the best interests of the family.

00:16:20:16 - 00:16:38:10
Unknown
They're using the leadership to bring the family into full health, to guide them, to protect the family from the schemes of the enemy, lies of the enemy, to be able to analyze men are really, really good at, the macro stuff and realizing that these are the lies in our culture today don't fall for the schemes of this stuff.

00:16:38:12 - 00:16:51:19
Unknown
Women tend to be better at the micro stuff. But what a lot of feminists have done is they've reacted to the fact that there are some bad men and said, well, that means all men are bad. That means we're just going to cancel this idea of submission. We're not going to submit to any man because there are some bad men out there.

00:16:51:23 - 00:17:07:24
Unknown
And so we've criticized the good men. We've done this big sweeping, criticism of men as a whole saying all men are bad. I hate men where no, we actually need to praise the good men who are willing to protect us against the bad men. And I would say, maybe you can speak about how it's affected men, but it's affected women.

00:17:07:24 - 00:17:24:08
Unknown
Feminism, I would believe one of the biggest culprits is the women, because number one, feminism has told women, in order to be valuable, you need to be like a man. So it's the most anti female anti-woman movement because it tells us that being a wife that's not good enough, being a mother, that's not enough. You need to be all the things that you criticize men for.

00:17:24:08 - 00:17:43:07
Unknown
Which is very ironic because feminists criticize men, or women criticize men for being not emotional enough, being sexually promiscuous and, you know, sleeping around and they criticize men for, you know, putting their career above their families. But then feminists say that's all the things that you should do as a woman. You know, what a to have value.

00:17:43:09 - 00:18:02:21
Unknown
But the reason it's really affected women is because it's gotten women to be independent. So we don't need men, we don't in our protectors. But the reality is, as the Bible says, and as a physical and biological reality as well, women are the weaker vessels. We are physically weaker. That's a reality. We are not as strong. God did not make us that way.

00:18:02:24 - 00:18:29:22
Unknown
We are biologically weaker vessels. And yet we have told our protectors, those that God has given strength to in order to protect us. We told them we don't need you. And so now we have men in female sports. We've got men who are getting into the ring. Well, because we gave them the right, because feminism actually led to transgenderism, because we said that being a woman is just a feeling and that you can actually go against the biology that God has given you.

00:18:29:22 - 00:18:47:25
Unknown
You can go against your gender role and you can do whatever you want. You can show yourself to be whoever you want. And so we've got now men in women's sports. We have men coming in to female bathrooms with this whole transgender movement. And where are our protectors? Well, we told them we don't need you. We told the strong men that are actually willing to protect us.

00:18:47:25 - 00:19:01:26
Unknown
We said, we don't need you. We're independent. We can protect ourselves. No you can't. You're the weaker vessel. You need a strong man in your life to protect you. You know, I get I get so many girls come up to me and they're like, Pastor Martin, I can't find a man. I can't find a husband all the time.

00:19:01:26 - 00:19:20:07
Unknown
I go to conferences around the world. They're like, I don't know who to marry. There's no godly man. I'm like, wait, it's your fault. It's a woman's fault. The women are now not able to find husbands. But you mocked the men of God. You mocked the masculine men. I mean, but you know, 100 years ago, men who were bold and courageous and went to war.

00:19:20:13 - 00:19:39:28
Unknown
When they came back from the war, the woman would be dancing and leaping and celebrating that their husbands and the men of their nation went to protect them and fight for their freedom. What do these women do now? They mock these men. And we used to mock men in dresses like Harry Styles and Sam Smith, men who were overweight and men who wear dresses and crop tops.

00:19:40:02 - 00:19:56:24
Unknown
We used to mock these men a hundred years ago. We used to laugh at these men. We used to say, who are you? You're so gay now. These men are no longer gay now. These men are the heroes of our time. The heroes were looking up to a Sam Smith. Really? This guy, Sam Smith in a dress, overweight, eating cheeseburgers and pizza all the time.

00:19:56:24 - 00:20:22:06
Unknown
These guys put on so much weight. Is this really the guy you want to celebrate? So we flipped it. We don't celebrate masculine men. Now we mock them with a mock effeminate men. We celebrate them. And now women are unable to find a man. They're unable to find a husband. And I think in the next ten years, one of the biggest struggles you're going to have a bunch of 30 year old woman and 40 year old woman who are depressed because they're not married, without kids, and they're going to die lonely or turning to Islam or the other one happening.

00:20:22:06 - 00:20:37:20
Unknown
So the other one is now woman. Because women want a masculine man, there are some remnants of woman who want a masculine man. What's happening now is they're getting attracted to Muslim men, which are a whole different dangerous zone, like someone like Andrew State, or that he was the most searched man on Google two years ago or three years ago.

00:20:37:20 - 00:20:55:26
Unknown
Why people want this masculinity back there are hungering for the craving for it, and they can't find it in Christian men. So they're looking at Muslim men. Yeah. The reason Andrew Type became a muslim, he said, is because Christianity was too effeminate for me. Yeah, and it was Christian. It literally said, I'm now a muslim because Christianity was too effeminate for me.

00:20:56:02 - 00:21:13:27
Unknown
But the problem is Christianity is not effeminate. Christianity is a masculine religion. Have you read Elijah in the Bible? Elijah mocked the prophets of male. Have you read Jesus? Jesus? Flip the tables. That's very masculine of him. Elijah beheaded the prophets of Baal. John the Baptist with a very masculine man. Daniel was a very masculine man. Jesus probably had a six pack.

00:21:14:04 - 00:21:34:16
Unknown
He was a carpenter. Like Jesus was not an effeminate man. He was a very masculine man. So when Andrew tests, like all the Christian men are effeminate, I'm like, well, they're not really reading the Bible because the Bible promotes masculinity. Men literally grew up to be fishermen, farmers. So all these now the women are getting attracted to the Muslim men because Islam promotes masculinity.

00:21:34:16 - 00:21:56:08
Unknown
But it's not masculinity. It's oppressive masculinity. Such an important conversation. I think, yeah, we're seeing the results in Europe. Yeah. With exactly with, and now Sharia too, and now Australia. So is so let's talk about Australia for a moment. So what percentage of, Australia is a Christian? Is it 40? Yeah. It was, it was 96% 100 years ago.

00:21:56:08 - 00:22:15:22
Unknown
Now it's that 40%. What do you think is, what do you think the reason for that is? So much reasons. Lukewarm Christianity. Yeah. Woke preachers who don't want to preach the Bible. Yeah. They're just sugarcoating the Bible. So people are obviously not turning to Christ. And you guys so on that note, right, both of you founded a church, Echo Church.

00:22:15:22 - 00:22:35:06
Unknown
So Echo Church, my my brother Andrew, who is a bold preacher and reformer of the truth, he founded Echo Church. Okay. Got it eight years ago. And the whole family now is a part of it. So you guys are all involved. So my brother Andrew, and he's watching my brother John and his wife Asma, my sister Martina and Alex, me and my wife, my father and mother, the whole family, in ministry together.

00:22:35:06 - 00:22:50:07
Unknown
So that is incredible. And, yeah, so all of us found it. And are really our mission is to preach the truth of the Bible, no matter the cost. Yeah. If you get offended, we're going to keep preaching. We literally have on our front door. As you enter our auditorium in our sanctuary, we have, be what, trigger warning.

00:22:50:07 - 00:23:10:26
Unknown
The truth is offensive. We literally have it because we want to make sure people know if you're going to step foot into the house of God, into the church. The truth of the Bible will offend you. Yeah, yeah. It's the mindset of Australian preachers and Christians. Is that the greatest sin you can ever commit is telling the truth and having someone get offended and walk away.

00:23:10:28 - 00:23:29:02
Unknown
That's in their mindset. That is degrading people. There's offending people is the greatest evil. There's a great, a great guy that we're connected with, Brant Hanson, and he wrote a book called unaffordable. Right. Like, how do we how do we have Christians? Yeah. You know, step into the space of not being offended so easily. Yeah.

00:23:29:04 - 00:23:46:14
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And how do we have more preachers that speak the truth? And there's a quote. There's a quote. A bit of agitation quickens the soul. Yeah. So yeah, dictation is a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You know, a bit of agitation quickens the soul. So I got our events, man. My goal is not to make everybody feel free.

00:23:46:14 - 00:24:02:13
Unknown
Give them a little bit. I want to trigger I want I want to trigger them. I want them to get a little agitated because something starts stirring inside them. Yeah, well, truth. The truth is meant to offend you. The Word of God is sharper than any double edged sword. Yeah, a sword doesn't tickle your ear. A sword cuts you like.

00:24:02:13 - 00:24:19:07
Unknown
That's literally the Word of God is sharper than any double edged sword. It is there to cut you and convict you. And if anyone here listening to me, you're attending a church where your pastor always encourages you and he never convicts you. There's something wrong. Yeah. If your pastor always makes you feel good after the sermon, there is something wrong.

00:24:19:08 - 00:24:39:25
Unknown
The Word of God, as Paul says, the Word of God is there to encourage, correct, and rebuke. Two out of the three, two out of the three words that Paul uses of the mission of the Word of God is rebuke and correct. One of them is encourage to really, I think your pastor should be 33% encouraging you, 66% correcting you.

00:24:39:27 - 00:24:57:20
Unknown
Yeah. Because how many know we're born sinners and, we're sinful by nature, so really wanted conviction, and we're not preaching the truth, and we're not offending you because we hate you. We're doing we're doing it because we love you. I love you enough to tell you that you're living in sin. I love you enough to tell you that that man.

00:24:57:20 - 00:25:16:20
Unknown
You should not be getting drunk, man. You should not be sleeping with that young man. You should not be looking at that girl that way. I love you enough to tell you that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God, that drunkards would not inherit the kingdom of God. Yeah, I love you enough to tell you that if a preacher doesn't tell you that he doesn't love you because you're going to go to hell and burn for eternity because he loved you, but he doesn't love you, man.

00:25:16:21 - 00:25:32:12
Unknown
Yeah. On that day of judgment, I always think about that day of judgment that all of these preachers that would only encourage you and make you feel good and tell you how much God loves you and has a plan but will never call you to repentance and we'll never define sin. That's something we talk about a lot. A lot of these preachers, they don't actually.

00:25:32:15 - 00:25:48:20
Unknown
They might say sin, but they will never define it. They'll never tell you what is sin, and they expect you to just figure it out for yourself. And I realized on the day of Judgment, so many people will look at these preachers. They might be the most loved preachers and leaders of Christianity now on this side of eternity.

00:25:48:27 - 00:26:13:11
Unknown
But on the other side of eternity, they will be the most hated people in all of the population, because so many people that were deceived, that thought they were saved, but not so many people that a false convert sitting in churches all their life, never repenting for anything, never actually getting their heart straight with God because they didn't actually know that what they were doing is something they had to repent for, for they were just told that just come as you are, just keep attending, keep tithing, just stay how you are.

00:26:13:14 - 00:26:26:17
Unknown
Stay the same. So they were deceived all of their life on earth. They will look at these preachers and say, where is the love of God that you told me about? You told me that God loves me without me having to do anything you told me. You never told me I had to repent. You never told me that God sends people to hell.

00:26:26:17 - 00:26:43:04
Unknown
You even you never even mentioned hell. You never even told me about hell. And so these people will be the most hated people in eternity. And I realize that the reason I'm not scared to talk about hell and to talk about the reality of sin and the the Bible talks about the kind of people that will not inherit the kingdom.

00:26:43:06 - 00:27:02:28
Unknown
I'm not scared to talk about that, because I realize on that day of judgment, no one will ever wish they heard the truth less. No one, no one. When they hear the chilling words depart from me. I never knew. No one will ever think, man, I wish I heard less truthful sermons. I wish I was convicted less. I wish less people would trigger me with Scripture.

00:27:03:04 - 00:27:20:06
Unknown
They will only wish they heard it more. They will only wish they heard the truth more. They will only wish they were offended more by the gospel so they could repent on that side of eternity. So it's not loving to cover up the truth. It's not loving to sugarcoat it to the point where you are now deceiving someone into thinking they are safe when they are not saved.

00:27:20:08 - 00:27:39:09
Unknown
It's not loving what is. And that's that's a tricky, not not tricky conversation, but it is a, controversial. Yeah, right. Conversation. We had a guy that was recently on the podcast. He wrote a book called The Rest of the gospel, and it's a great book, and it really just talks about how the, the, the love of Christ.

00:27:39:09 - 00:28:01:27
Unknown
Right. And what God did for us by sending his son was all covering. And so, yeah, like so many people that are truly converted and are truly following Christ, are not living in freedom because they're stuck in the shame attached to mistakes and some of the sin that they make. And so there's there's an extreme on I think both sides right there is.

00:28:01:29 - 00:28:24:22
Unknown
And so the, the, the the scripture that talks about. Right. A drunkard will not in inherit the kingdom. I love to talk about that for a moment. Yeah. Because right from your perspective. So what does that mean? Yeah. Drunkenness is a massive issue for men. I know men, especially after work. You like to go to the pub with your mates and get drunk, and it's it's such an interesting, you know, scripture.

00:28:24:22 - 00:28:45:11
Unknown
When, when when the Bible says, do not be drunk on wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit. It's so interesting. I always thought, why put this mirror of getting drunk being filled with the spirit? And it's very simple. You cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit and at the same time be drunk. The goal of drunkenness is to influence you, control you, and literally take over your mind.

00:28:45:12 - 00:29:02:11
Unknown
What's the goal of the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit influences you. The Holy Spirit guide you. The Holy Spirit pushes you. So as a man you can either be controlled by wine or controlled by the Holy Spirit. Yeah, and it's not. By the way, if you fall into sin that you're not saved, are you going to hell? Obviously, men fall into sin.

00:29:02:11 - 00:29:22:19
Unknown
We all fall into sin. Everyone has fallen short of the glory of God. It's not about that. The question is, the Bible says a righteous man may fall seven times, but he gets back up. So the difference between, a worldly man going to hell and a righteous man is the wealthy man sins, but he doesn't feel convicted, he doesn't repent, and he keeps going back to that sin all the time.

00:29:22:24 - 00:29:38:19
Unknown
He doesn't mind. I don't mind getting drunk. I'm getting drunk every weekend. A righteous man, he falls like David in the Bible. He was a man after God's own heart. I mean, when you think about it, a man after God's own heart. But then. Yet he ends up looking at Bathsheba bathing, and he ends up sleeping with her and killing her husband.

00:29:38:19 - 00:29:59:26
Unknown
That's very wicked. But then in Psalm 31 and 52, his repentance prayer, he says, when I kept silent about my sin, when he didn't tell God about his sin, he says, my bones wasted away. He says, my strength was taken from me. He said God's hand was heavy on me until I told my sins to God, until I confessed my sins to God.

00:29:59:26 - 00:30:15:00
Unknown
And then he says, the Lord forgave my sins. So if you're a man and you fell into sin, you got drunk or you cheated on your wife, you lust said, it is time to repent of your sin. Yeah, turn back to God and ask God, number one, to forgive you and wash you by his precious blood, which you can.

00:30:15:07 - 00:30:32:02
Unknown
God will. God literally will wipe your sin as white as snow. God is a good God. God is not your wife who's going to remind you? I remember what you did. God's not going to be like you. Remember when you did think of something 70 million years ago? God literally is so loving that all your past mistakes, you wash us under his blood.

00:30:32:06 - 00:30:51:09
Unknown
He didn't go to the cross and carry your shame for you to carry shame, right? Jesus literally hung on a cross naked. Yeah, to take your shame from you. Yeah, but if you don't repent, you will go to hell. The truth of the Bible. As you said, it's two sides. There's some people who say, there's some people who say God hates you, he's angry at you, is this?

00:30:51:09 - 00:31:06:15
Unknown
And they don't preach a love of God. But there's some people say, God loves you, is pleased with you, and it's okay. You can keep on sinning. Both are wrong. God loves you, friend, Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, neither do I condemn you, right? But what did he keep on saying? He said, go and sin no more.

00:31:06:18 - 00:31:26:13
Unknown
That's the gospel. The gospel is. Neither do I condemn you. But it doesn't stop there. Stop selling. Stop getting drunk, stop cheating, stop lusting and God will give you the strength as a man I know as men temptation. If you had an old life. But God can give you strength. Go on a journey. Go to a church, get planted, get a spiritual leader above you and go on a journey step by step.

00:31:26:13 - 00:31:43:11
Unknown
Be more holy, be more righteous. God can get you through it. That's good. Yeah. Never let shame stop you from coming to God like that. That's the worst decision you can ever make. If you're ashamed of your past that means I shouldn't come to God. No. Nobody will enter heaven thinking they deserve to be there. That's the whole point.

00:31:43:14 - 00:31:55:19
Unknown
That's the entire point of grace. That's the whole point of the gospel that none of us deserve to go to heaven. None of us are going to get there being like, look at me. I was so holy. I was so good. And that's why I'm here. No, none of us could ever be good enough to get into heaven.

00:31:55:19 - 00:32:11:21
Unknown
All of us have fallen short of the glory of God, but we receive grace. And that's why we come to God. No matter what our backstory is, no matter what our past is, no matter what we've done in our past, you could be the worst criminal, but you come to God, you receive grace. We don't know what the criminal on the left of Jesus did.

00:32:11:21 - 00:32:27:13
Unknown
We don't know. And it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter what he had done all of his life, because that's the point of grace. Jesus says, I can wash away your sins and you can't. You repent of your sins, and you trust that when God says you're forgiven, I don't need to feel forgiven. If God says, I'm forgiven, unforgiven, my sins are washed away.

00:32:27:15 - 00:32:46:15
Unknown
And now I go on the journey. Now the fruit of receiving that forgiveness is now. I want to serve him, and I want to do what pleases him. Now. The fruit of receiving the grace of God is now. My heart starts to turn and I want to be righteous. That's why first Jesus shows that woman caught in adultery.

00:32:46:17 - 00:33:04:29
Unknown
He shows her grace. But then the fruit of that is now she will go on and sin no more. Because now we have the spirit inside of us, and the Spirit of God empowers us to overcome sin. That's what. That's the gift of the Holy Spirit. He empowers us to overcome addiction, to overcome rage, bitterness, anger, because the His Spirit is in us.

00:33:05:02 - 00:33:30:21
Unknown
And so any of these struggles that we have with sin, God's Spirit, allows us to overcome it. When we pray to him. What I found in some of the work that we do, here a rock is the verse, right, where the spirit of the Lord is. There is freedom. Amen. Right. And it's powerful. Yeah. There are so many Christians, right, that have the Spirit of God that are still stuck in not living in true freedom.

00:33:30:22 - 00:33:53:10
Unknown
That's true. Right. It's really interesting. And so I think a lot of the work that, that, that we do ties in to what we talked about earlier, which is a spiritual formation process. So the the spirit can give us freedom. What I've found though, is most Christians, right when they find Christ, the, God doesn't take away all their bad habits and all the neural pathways that are still in their brain that are leading to ineffective.

00:33:53:12 - 00:34:18:28
Unknown
That's right. Behavior. Right. So that stuff is a lifelong journey that the spirit can empower us to break free. But there's a level of work that we need to put in to really break free from those things. And so, it's, it is ties in the prosperity gospel to a certain extent, meaning like, God, just because you became a Christian doesn't mean your life is going to become easier just because.

00:34:19:05 - 00:34:33:28
Unknown
Because you can be a Christian and accept and the Holy Spirit is now operating in you, doesn't mean that you're going to have freedom automatically, right? You know that, right? Doesn't mean you're gonna have freedom. So there's a journey. Sanctification is the life. It is. It's a journey. It's a journey of breaking through. Either there could be a, right.

00:34:33:28 - 00:34:54:12
Unknown
There could be, some sexual trauma from your past. That is. Yeah. That is creating thoughts in someone's mind and and and and creating torment to a certain level. Right. And so as that healing and as the Holy Spirit, I believe the Holy Spirit does bring those thoughts and those, those, those, those things to mind that need to be healed.

00:34:54:13 - 00:35:13:15
Unknown
Yeah. Right. And then there's a process so the Holy Spirit may heal it, or he may guide you to a resource. Yeah. To go find it, to go step into freedom in a certain area. Yeah. And you nailed it, by the way, because the process of Christianity is three steps. First one is justification. Yeah. Which is the moment you saved Christ, forgives you, washes you by his precious blood, and you nailed it.

00:35:13:15 - 00:35:33:01
Unknown
The second part is sanctification, which is the process of God. Keep on cleaning you. You never just clean up. That is. I'm not that easy. Finally, I'm all clean, thank God. No, they're sanctification. That sanctification is like when you have, you know, like a dirty shirt and you keep dunking in the water and every time you dunk it, more dirt comes out, more dirt comes out.

00:35:33:01 - 00:35:58:15
Unknown
Yeah. That's this process of sanctification. It's every single day. The Bible says, as you behold the glory of God, you're becoming more like Christ. And it says from one degree of glory to another, yep, this is Christianity. It's slowly, becoming more like Christ. Slowly, slowly. So at justification, I'm closing Christ, right. I'm forgiven. I at Christ. God is pleased with me as a as I look like Christ, but then sanctification is that keep on getting cleansed.

00:35:58:15 - 00:36:12:00
Unknown
And that's why Paul, by the way, in Romans seven, he says, I do what I don't want to do and what I don't want to do this I end up doing is literally saying, there's a he says, there's a war between my spirit and my flesh. This is what what you were saying. It says this war between my spirit.

00:36:12:00 - 00:36:31:13
Unknown
My spirit wants to please God, but my flesh wants sin. I want God but one sin. And then Paul uses this language of there's a war inside of me between my spirit and my flesh. And then he says, who will save me from his body, this wretched body that is subject to decay? Yeah. The truth is this no matter how saved you are, this flesh is sinful.

00:36:31:15 - 00:36:52:15
Unknown
This flesh will always want lust. So always want to get drunk. And that's the power of the Holy Spirit to keep cleansing you. And the last step, obviously, after justification, sanctification is glorification. Glorification is that moment when Christ returns and and God will take you out of this sinful body and take you into your body. And no more struggle, no more temptation.

00:36:52:15 - 00:37:13:12
Unknown
God will give you a new body, but until Christ returns, you will always have this battle of temptation. Yeah, and I think it's very good news. I actually have a background in neuroscience and it's very good news that God has given us the faculties in our brain, in our minds, to be able to rewire our thought patterns. It's a very, very beautiful thing that God actually designed us for repentance.

00:37:13:17 - 00:37:36:07
Unknown
When you look at the structures of our brain, they neuroscientists usually use the example when it comes to your thought patterns as a track through a forest. The more you walk on a certain pathway, the first time you walk down a path, it's like grown over trees, grass, and it's hard to, you know, navigate like the first people that entered into a country, and they're having to, like, cut down all the branches and it's hard to walk that path.

00:37:36:07 - 00:37:54:13
Unknown
But then the more you continue down that path, it becomes trodden on and it becomes clear and it's easy. And that's like how they explain the synapses between the neurons in your brain. Every time you have one singular thought, you're forming a pathway between two neurons, between two neurotransmitters, and you're making it easier to have that thought again and again and again.

00:37:54:16 - 00:38:14:13
Unknown
And that's the process of changing your mind. Repentance, metanoia, which is a change of mind. You analyze all of your thought patterns. This is what we Christians have to do. We have to look at every thought, habit, belief that we have when it comes to our sexuality, when it comes to our time, every old everything. And we have to look at it and take captive every thought and make it submit to Christ.

00:38:14:13 - 00:38:32:15
Unknown
Meaning you look at all of your thought patterns and your beliefs, and you compare it to Scripture, compare it to truth. And if it's not true, then you need to stop walking down that path. You need to say, okay, I'm not going to think at this anymore. And God has given you the ability in your brain to start replacing that pathway with another pathway.

00:38:32:17 - 00:38:52:18
Unknown
So now when there's a lie that I believe, when I believe that I'm inadequate, I'm inferior. When I have this, when I look at women and I objectify women, whatever it is, whatever thought pattern that is toxic and secular, God has given you the ability to look at it, take it captive by saying, actually, no, when I have that thought, instead, I'm going to redirect it to a new path which says, no women are made in the image of God.

00:38:52:18 - 00:39:07:24
Unknown
I will see them as a beautiful gift from God. Whatever, whatever it is, whatever the struggle is. And just as when you stop walking down a pathway in a forest, it begins to grow back over. And now you don't walk down that path. And now you'll realize five years later down the track, you stop having these toxic pathways.

00:39:07:24 - 00:39:24:27
Unknown
You stop thinking about this stuff anymore. And God designed us that way. And right now in culture, our society is actually trying to break down this idea that our brains are plastic and that you actually can rewire. Right now you have terminology like born this way, and this is why I get very angry at this term. Born this way.

00:39:25:01 - 00:39:45:04
Unknown
No, I don't believe that. I don't believe you are born with a genetic predisposition to struggle with any sin. I don't believe in that. God has given you the ability to repent, to change your mind, and to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. So no matter what your parents might have struggled with, struggled with alcoholism, you might have been brought up in an abusive household.

00:39:45:08 - 00:40:02:21
Unknown
You might, no matter what sin you've struggled with or what beliefs or patterns God has given you the ability to form new pathways, to form new habits, to be able to change your mind, to live in a way that glorifies him. And so I reject this idea that I was born this way, that I have this genetic predisposition.

00:40:02:25 - 00:40:21:04
Unknown
Actually, science rejects that science itself. Neuroscience proves you have the ability. God has graced you by His spirit, and he's given you the biological faculties to be able to change, no matter what patterns you have, which is an amazing thing. So good thing. Yeah, you guys aren't as familiar with what we do, but that's a lot of the work that we do.

00:40:21:04 - 00:40:48:20
Unknown
Iraq. So we actually are involved in the rewiring process intentionally like hey what belief do you have. Yeah. And is that belief true. Yeah. Right. Because we, we have most of our beliefs. We estimate between around 85% of our beliefs, were locked in between the ages of about eight and 12. So our beliefs about women, God, money, what we saw, relationships, friendships, all these things that they're about, they're locked in, locked in.

00:40:48:20 - 00:41:10:05
Unknown
Meaning they're set. Yeah, they're set in. Right. But between the ages of eight, 12. So we we don't consciously. Yeah. Right. Install those. Those happen automatically. Yeah. So, so we have a bunch of human beings that are walking around by default. Yeah. Right. They have these old, this old programing, these old belief systems that are still running their lives, whether it be insecurity, limiting beliefs, whether it be whatever it may be.

00:41:10:05 - 00:41:42:04
Unknown
And so it's still controlling them. And so, there's a process right, that's effective is going back and really spending time and especially as Christians. Right. Secular personal developments pulled God out of the space, right? When really God should be the foundation of all personal development. Otherwise it's considered secular personal development. And then, most like something if something's 98% true, but 2% if it's off, that 2% can take you down a whole nother path where you'll end up questioning God.

00:41:42:07 - 00:42:02:27
Unknown
Right. And so that's why I believe, like, personal development should have a faith foundation hundred percent. And so we go back and we spend time where we we're breaking down belief systems. We are rewiring not only just, through thinking through things, and we have some processes, but also through physiological. Yeah, moving, shifting and and through some specific experiences.

00:42:02:27 - 00:42:21:01
Unknown
So I believe that's where Christianity and personal development they need they need to meet. Yeah. So what's happened is traditional personal development. It's actually pulled people from God. Yes. Because they've gotten quote unquote healing. Yeah. Right. So it's like, oh, wow, I found freedom in this area without God. So I don't need you. I really need God.

00:42:21:03 - 00:42:51:09
Unknown
If I can find freedom from a great book or from a great facilitator, right. It has to be combined and merged with Christianity or else it is dangerous. Yeah. And it it's hurtful. It'll pull you away from the spirit like. Yeah. And so exactly. Yeah. I talk about with like the field of psychiatry, I believe the one of the most dangerous problems today with the field of psychiatry in the secular sense, as you're talking about, is that it's putting people in spiritual comas with all of these drugs medication, Xanax, anti-anxiety, antidepressant medication.

00:42:51:16 - 00:43:11:22
Unknown
What it's doing is it's giving somebody a Band-Aid. It's numbing their brain. It's not solving anything. It's not rewiring anything. It's just numbing them so that they can't get these, neurotransmitter. Not they're not getting the signals. And it's giving them a sense of peace that should only come from Jesus. It's giving them a sense of peace outside of the of the Prince of Peace.

00:43:11:24 - 00:43:26:16
Unknown
And so it's actually consolidating this false sense of peace that it's going to send them to hell. So I tell people all the time, if you're not saved, I hope you feel anxiety in your soul. Some pain I feel. I hope you feel unrest in your soul. I hope you don't feel free. That's not what you're supposed to feel.

00:43:26:19 - 00:43:45:25
Unknown
If you're a slave of sin, you're not supposed to feel free. You're not supposed to feel happy. You're not supposed to feel satisfied. You're supposed to that that unrest in your soul is supposed to drive you to the one that can save your soul. And that's why, Paul, sometimes when he's talking to the church of Corinth and he's talking to people that are, you know, bound to their sin, they're living in sin.

00:43:45:25 - 00:44:09:07
Unknown
They're they're not truly saved, he says to them. He says, I hope you feel unrest in your souls. So it's actually a good thing if you're not saved, to feel unrest and anxiety in your spirit to drive you. And that's a problem with psycho psychiatry specifically, is it's offering this substitute, this Band-Aid, this medication to numb the anxiety that you should feel until you are saved and experience the peace of your soul.

00:44:09:10 - 00:44:24:16
Unknown
So that's why I believe it has to come from God. Personal development and the Bible, by the way, is so practical in this study. Oh my gosh. So there's so much practical, so much freedom. Yep. He doesn't want us to just be set free from sin and saved. He also wants to be free in every sense. No, that's the that's the marriages.

00:44:24:16 - 00:44:41:01
Unknown
Yep. That's a start. Yeah. Right. Then how do we go starting Faith out now right. Yeah. How do we how do we expand the kingdom with what we've learned. And so. Right. There needs to be more Christians that are living in freedom, that are that are representing God well, where people look at their lives now, if that's what it looks like to be a Christian, that's what I want.

00:44:41:08 - 00:45:00:21
Unknown
Not not a broken marriage and that struggling with insecurity. Yeah. Overweight. It's like it doesn't represent. It doesn't represent God. Well, yeah. Yeah I get it. If you have if there's some some trauma or some issues or things. But the goal is that we live we live lives of, I believe of excellence. Yeah. We're we're representing Christ well.

00:45:00:24 - 00:45:17:06
Unknown
And the things that and the things that we do. Yeah. So there's a, and there's a, there's a, there's a rising up right now of men specifically like, I'm seeing it around the country. There's a lot of men's groups getting started. Yeah. There's a there's a stirring in the hearts of men. Right. Yeah. Where they're like, ready for this transformation.

00:45:17:06 - 00:45:38:24
Unknown
Like they are hungry. They are ready. They are. Yeah. They they want it bad. Yeah. And men, by the way, need to many to be very careful what psychologists or counsel they speak to because they're so quick to give you medication. Medication. I mean if Joseph was living today after what he went through, you know, getting betrayed by his brothers growing up as a slave, getting lied about by part of his wife.

00:45:38:24 - 00:45:57:02
Unknown
Yeah. The the doctors today would have said, you need this antidepressants. You need this medications. Moses. Your family was in slavery. Here's some medication. Here's some medication. Jesus literally had to escape because the king wanted to kill him as a baby. They would have the amount of characters in the Bible that went through pain and struggle and trauma.

00:45:57:09 - 00:46:18:11
Unknown
So much distrust most of them. Most of them went through. It was like, easy for me. So much trauma. I'm wondering if they were living in a 21st century. Yeah. How much psychologists would have given a medication, how much psychologists would have said Joseph. I'm so sorry. Yeah, you got betrayed by your brother. Here's some medication. And all of a sudden, and all of a sudden, Joseph is sitting there like a zombie with this medication.

00:46:18:11 - 00:46:33:27
Unknown
Yep. Joseph could have. If Joseph lived in a 21st century, he'll be sitting like a zombie now. And all of this medication. And I'm just staring at the camera. Yeah, but he ended up being the ruler of Egypt. And this is the story of Christianity. Is that the pain you went through as a kid, the trauma you went through as a kid?

00:46:34:05 - 00:46:52:23
Unknown
God didn't do it to you? No, God didn't do that to you. That was a devil. That was evil. Wicked people in your life. But God can turn to for good. We believe in the sovereignty of God. As Joseph said to his brothers, what you meant for evil. God turned to for good the trauma I went through, even me growing up and escaping Egypt as a refugee God.

00:46:52:23 - 00:47:23:19
Unknown
Literally. Most people that escape as refugees end up on and medication home, you know, medic on medication, they're depressed. Their life was ripped from them. Like my family, literally. My grandparents just taken away, our house left. We could have end up in a very bad place. But here we are, traveling the world, preaching the Word of God. God literally took us, I like to say, from refugees to revivals, from refugees to reformers, from refugees to preachers, and you get to decide who you go to will determine what your story becomes.

00:47:23:21 - 00:47:39:19
Unknown
The psychologists you visit, the ministry you visit, the organization. You can go to psychology is going to tell you now, man, you're struggling. Go there or you can go to Rise Up Kings. Who is going to tell you God can actually get you through this? So be very careful who you give your ear to because they can really suck you up.

00:47:39:19 - 00:48:01:05
Unknown
Yeah, they can really stuff you. There's so many amazing case studies with this stuff in the Bible. Like, I'm amazed. Like, even with, Elijah, Elijah, Elijah. Yeah. When he knows Elijah, when he's suicidal, runs off into the wilderness, he's suicidal. The first thing that happens to him is. Yeah, well, that's what would happen today. Oh, you.

00:48:01:06 - 00:48:16:11
Unknown
It was a. Oh, well let's put you on. Let's put you on anti anti-anxiety anti. Oh yeah. Let's numb you down the first thing God does put him into a sleep. So he gives him a nap. He wakes up. It's so hilarious the story. He wakes up and the angel has brought him a cake. That's what it says in one translation.

00:48:16:11 - 00:48:34:05
Unknown
But another translation says some bread. Yeah. So he meets his physical needs, which is very interesting, by the way, I wonder how much of our mental struggle is a physical deficiency, the foods that we're eating where, oh, working out so much of it is my sister. She, when she drinks coffee. Yeah, she it puts it her diety.

00:48:34:07 - 00:48:54:19
Unknown
Sugar. Yeah. Lead. Too much sugar leads to anxiety also. So like when I, when I eat too much sweets, I if I do for a couple of weeks, I'll actually feel a little anxious afterwards. And I'll feel a little numb or foggy and sometimes what kind of happens? So, it's it's so interesting. I know I love this conversation because again, my heart is truly to see more.

00:48:54:21 - 00:49:17:17
Unknown
I want to see all people live lives that are, at peace. Specifically, I feel called the Christians, right? I want to see more Christians live in freedom and peace. And so yeah, yeah, any of these conversations are totally relevant and necessary because, there's just a lot of people that are trapped. And so I love the work that you guys are doing, stepping in to helping people not only step into more freedom, but also create awareness.

00:49:17:20 - 00:49:37:14
Unknown
Yeah. On critical topics. Right. So, yeah, your level of truth and passion that both of you bring is pretty, is profound. Let's talk. I'm, I'm going to back up a little bit. And how you guys met. How did you two meet? Yeah, we so we met, at a Christian camp when we were, like, 14, 13, 13 or something.

00:49:38:09 - 00:49:58:20
Unknown
Well, actually, at 13, we didn't officially meet, but he was preaching at 13 in front of thousands. Oh, really? I was a little. Oh, that's right. He was out of the out of the womb with a microphone. He's always been this anointed amazing preacher. And I'm seeing him preach just boldly, fearlessly. And I was like, yeah, that's the kind of man I want to marry.

00:49:58:23 - 00:50:16:03
Unknown
And then a 15, we, I dunno, we went to a camp, I came back, I told my parents I'd met my husband, they thought I was crazy. They were like, you don't know anything. You're 15. I was like, no, I really have. And then 18, 18. Well, we just waited. We prayed. He was very calculative. Yeah.

00:50:16:08 - 00:50:31:16
Unknown
Took very analytical. I opened I opened her Bible one day. I was like, you know, I got to check out a Bible. If she doesn't, if her Bible has all the rainbow gay colors. I know she reads a Bible. So Open Bible was all highlighted in gay colors. I was like, Thank God that's a that's a that's a that's a rainbow I want to see.

00:50:32:10 - 00:50:49:14
Unknown
So it was all highlighted. I knew she reads the Bible. I was like, I analyze her life. She feared God. She was humble servant in the house, attending church, living righteous and holy. And I was like, man, this woman is amazing. So the age of 18, I went up to her and I said, will you prepare for marriage?

00:50:49:15 - 00:51:04:11
Unknown
I said, I was like, let's get get to the point. I've we've known each other for so long, you don't want red flags or green flags and as you don't want to waste time. So I told her, hey, I'm called to ministry. I'm going to be traveling the world preaching. We might not own a house. We might be rich.

00:51:04:11 - 00:51:16:15
Unknown
We might be poor. We my own a house. We might not own a house. My life is going to be very uncertain because of the call of God he placed on my life. Are you willing to commit to that? And she was like, yes, I'm ready to go. I was like, all right, amazing, let's do it.

00:51:16:15 - 00:51:36:28
Unknown
And we got married at the age of 20. So we got married very young. And yeah, man, we've been married eight years now and God's been good. Will you prepare for marriage? Yeah, I think that's a great thing. Tell me more about that. Yeah. I think young boys not so gay, like, man, grow up like like, stop self like, look, flirt with her, flirt with her for a bit.

00:51:36:28 - 00:51:54:00
Unknown
But after a year of flirting, you got to make a decision, man. Take her on a date. Don't play with her like don't play with a half. Look, one year of flirting, you know? Hey, babe. How not babe then called babe. Actually, Hey, sister in Christ. Hey. Hey, sister. Hey, sister. Can I take you on a coffee?

00:51:54:00 - 00:52:13:24
Unknown
And, man, by the way, if you like a girl, number one is analyze. You analyze. It's calculative, it's decisive. It's, you know. Yeah, I, I yeah, I had a four sheet written down exactly who I wanted to marry. Yeah. Like, so very detailed. Yeah. Jessica had a thought. She's so good. And we matched each other. Almost. Jessica said I was missing one.

00:52:13:24 - 00:52:32:13
Unknown
It was the height, but. Oh, it's all right. It's all exactly. I made up with it. The. That's all right. No, but I think step one is calculative. You know, you're analyzing. Don't be the gay emotional guy. I love you with all my heart. I'm like, you don't even know her bra. Just calculate it first. Analyze. Check her out.

00:52:32:13 - 00:52:45:18
Unknown
Watch her friends watch your social media. What does she do? What choices she go to. And once you happy, be a man and go ask her out. Like, stop beating around the bush. Go. Hey, let's go on a date. Go to a coffee or something. Don't go to her house. Don't go to her bedroom. Don't go to a movie.

00:52:45:18 - 00:52:59:10
Unknown
Just take her out to a coffee. Ask questions, dig a little bit deeper and after a year, make a decision. I think dating should be around a year, a year and a half, but after. For anyone who's been dating for like five six years, that's way too long. You're putting yourself in a place. Yeah, well, you get tempted.

00:52:59:12 - 00:53:16:12
Unknown
I think you know one, you're flirting one year of dating and then make a decision. I'm either going to get married or it didn't work out. Yeah. As a woman, as I don't know if I can speak for all women, but I think this is generally the truth. Women love when men are just upfront and honest about. I'm interested in you.

00:53:16:12 - 00:53:36:04
Unknown
Let's make it happen. I really appreciate that you weren't trying to beat around. I wasn't trying to figure out where you stand. You're like, I'm interested. You want, you want. You didn't fear rejection. Like, if I rejected you, it's all good. We'll move on. I really I loved the fact that you're up front. I took care, I believed what I did when I told her I took on a boat and a little, like a little kayak.

00:53:36:07 - 00:53:53:13
Unknown
And if you said no, I would. I feel very awkward. Like was about 20 minutes back to the shore. I was ready, very awkward. If you said no, I had my plan, I was down, you know, let's get it. I, had my plans. I was coming out. Yeah. So I threatened her to say yes. And then.

00:53:53:13 - 00:54:10:15
Unknown
Yeah, we got married at 20. Okay, then. Yeah. Preaching together and doing my dad. My dad had a bit of a litmus test as well. That was a good one. Oh, really? I want to hear about. Yeah. My dad okay. My dad said okay. There were three, I suppose. Did you ask her dad before I answer, I spoke to dad, which strong man of God I imagine her.

00:54:10:16 - 00:54:30:27
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, man. Amazing man of God. Yeah. What? Yeah. Well, you first of all asked his permission. Said I want to marry your daughter. You guys went out to some restaurant. That McDonald's. My dad has three. He really? Yeah. Some rascal didn't set up some restaurant at 18. You know, I was 18. I couldn't afford 18. There were three things my dad said you had to have.

00:54:30:27 - 00:54:47:16
Unknown
It was your citizenship. Because he wanted us to be able to travel. He wasn't a citizen yet. It was your driver's license. Because in my in my dad's mind, you're not really a real man if you can't drive your woman around. That's my dad, okay? You're mine. You drive your wife around, you don't make your wife drive. And what was a budget?

00:54:47:17 - 00:55:03:14
Unknown
Budget? He's like. He's like, come bring me a budget. The next time you come meet me, I was like, what's a budget? Hey, he's literally in the meeting you for this little kid. He was like, what's your. He's like, yeah, it's like number one citizenship, which is fair enough. I'm an Arab. He doesn't want me to steal here and take it back to Egypt.

00:55:03:17 - 00:55:19:27
Unknown
Yeah. You know, Muslims do that. Number two, he did the the drive is fair enough. I you can't be driving me around in a budget. Which I went home, created my budget, came back. All right. You can have my daughter. He was like, you brought this, like, for expenses on the budget or. Yeah. That time it was like, take out.

00:55:19:29 - 00:55:42:27
Unknown
Yeah. McDonald's and my dad's like, oh, that's cute. And he brings out his, like, big spreadsheet. Oh, my dad's right. But budget was like, I was like, what's going on? This is like, building a rocket. It was crazy. Yeah. But I'm glad he did that. The. I think the fathers need to really protect their daughters in a time where men and boys do not honor women, the youth of them aren't trained that way.

00:55:42:27 - 00:56:05:00
Unknown
Right. So we're training our boys right now on really how to honor woman. How do you, respect her? But for me, yeah. When I was young, I was just. Yeah. Taking advantage. Yeah. Right. So I was it was. It was ineffective and so and very wrong. So like, yeah, men definitely need to be protecting their daughters and and until your daughter, until your daughter is married, she's under your care and under your roof and you're the head of that house.

00:56:05:04 - 00:56:25:23
Unknown
So for a man and the West doesn't do that, but for a boy to go up to the girl and ask her to get married, or even ask her to get married or get engaged without talking to the husband, that's disrespectful. Because she's under my roof. She's under my authority. She's not. She's not under your authority. At the only time she's under your authority is when the father walks her down the aisle and hands her by the hand to you.

00:56:25:28 - 00:56:41:07
Unknown
Then she's under your authority. Then you're the head. But until that happens, the father is ahead. And you should respect that. Yeah, and I think men in the West need to begin to honor the fathers, and say, hey, she's your daughter and essentially is your her protector. Would you allow me to be her protector? And that's very important.

00:56:41:07 - 00:57:15:03
Unknown
Missing. Now, it's that idea of honoring the parents, not just honoring your parents, but honoring her parents. Yeah. And I think one thing my father did very well is he instilled in me that your purity is such a beautiful thing. Don't hand it out to any guy that's not going to marry you and save yourself a marriage. I'm so glad my dad instilled that in me, because that is one of the greatest lies of feminism, and it is one of the things that is destroyed, both men and women alike, through feminism, because it's told women to be sexually promiscuous, to give yourself out in order to be valuable.

00:57:15:08 - 00:57:44:19
Unknown
And it's devalued. Women. We know that it's devaluing women, and not just that most women, we're relational in nature. So when it comes to sex, we're trying to gain relationship and intimacy out of that. Most men, the physical in nature, it's more a physical thing for them. And so what we've done to ourselves as women, as feminists, the feminist movement is now, men don't have to commit to the woman to get the sexual thing out of her, because women are just handing it out for free, without any commitment, without any ring.

00:57:44:23 - 00:58:06:11
Unknown
And so we're actually we've we've done this to ourselves. We've, we've told men, you don't need to marry us. You don't need to commit to us. You can get this before. And that's why men now are not committing. And so really, fathers need to instill in their daughters that know your purity is valuable and it's actually making that man well, telling that man to wait for you for marriage is the incentive for him to marry you.

00:58:06:11 - 00:58:21:00
Unknown
In a sense, that's one of the incentives, because he can't just get that for free. That's a valuable gift he needs to commit to you in order to get that beautiful gift from you. So fathers really need to instill that into their daughters. And I'm so glad that that's one thing that my dad did very, very thing. Yeah.

00:58:21:03 - 00:58:41:28
Unknown
The amount of work that women need to do, that have given it away too often. Right. The healing that needs to come afterwards. Yeah. It's typically significant. Right? Jessica works with a lot of women that feel shame. They feel shame, and they feel guilt around making some of those mistakes. Yeah. So, yeah. And I think premarital counseling such a big deal.

00:58:41:28 - 00:58:59:22
Unknown
Yeah. It was neat. Me, Jessica and me, we went to premarital counseling and it was it was a it was a game changer. So we met this great guy really helped us bring things out into the light before we got married. Right. You guys got married young. I mean, we did too. We got married. I got married when I was, I think I was 23, 24.

00:58:59:24 - 00:59:26:22
Unknown
But still I had made some mistakes. And so he he basically shared with me, he said, hey, here's the deal. You have an opportunity right now before you get married to get everything out on the table. Yeah. And so he's like, if there's any, any darkness, any sin, anything that you haven't shared. Yeah. Or anything that is relevant to the marriage that you're not sharing, that could take up energy in your body and your soul for the rest of your marriage, right?

00:59:26:22 - 00:59:44:08
Unknown
That secret secrets take energy. They take physical energy to hold a secret. And so I'm like, oh, shoot, I guess he's saying this because we were dating and I had I had I had cheated on her, when we were dating and it was a huge mistake, but I'm like, I'm never going to tell her that. That's. Yeah, I'm locking that up.

00:59:44:08 - 00:59:59:12
Unknown
But this woman's a keeper. I got to find a way to, like, never share that ever, you know, ever again. Yeah. But then he brought that up and I'm like, oh, crap. Like, I don't want I want to be the best version of myself for my wife. Like, I don't want to. I don't want to hold back. I don't want to be less of a husband because I've I've held these secrets.

00:59:59:12 - 01:00:17:03
Unknown
Yeah. And so I'm like, okay, well, I'm, I'm going to share that. So I ended up sharing it like she almost did not marry me. And we ended up working through it. And it's been it's been a powerful part of our ministry and serving other couples that have gone through infidelity and, lustful lust challenges inside their marriage.

01:00:17:07 - 01:00:37:00
Unknown
Right. It's such a, Yeah. We we rest heavily on the verses. Romans 828. Right. Critical. Like we really believe God is working the things out for our good meaning. And sometimes the good. You can't see the good, right? Sometimes you can't see the good. So we tie in James one, two, three and four, which is consider a pure joy.

01:00:37:00 - 01:00:55:09
Unknown
My brothers, when we face trials of many kinds, for, you know, the testing of your faith develops perseverance. So sometimes, like I'm not clear on how this is working out for my good. This is dark. But then it's like, well, the perseverance that I'm having to go through of of my faith being tested in this whole process, that in itself creates maturity and completeness inside of me.

01:00:55:12 - 01:01:12:13
Unknown
And so I know that I'm becoming a better person through this process. And yes, there may be some other wins. Like for us, there was a huge amount of benefits that we got from that in serving other couples. Now that have gone through that you guys ministry. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I know I have to share it. My, my challenge was pornography.

01:01:12:13 - 01:01:33:21
Unknown
And so I've been able to share that with millions of people. And so it's now, now I've, I've made my missions to help more men live in freedom in those areas. Right. And help couples live in freedom because the the reality is most, a good amount of men. I would probably say most men have cheated or done something in some way inside of their marriage.

01:01:33:21 - 01:01:51:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And so it's not like a small percentage because a lot of people have weak character or a weak man. So they've just made dumb decisions. Yeah. And that was me. I when I was younger, I thought I was a strong, confident guy. I was, I was just, it was a facade. And my character on the inside was super weak.

01:01:51:08 - 01:02:11:26
Unknown
I was a weak man. Yeah, yeah. I couldn't follow through with my commitments, so, you know. Yeah, yeah. No marriage. One of the most important thing in marriages is transparency. I mean, when God created Adam and Eve, the Bible literally says that they were naked and unashamed. That's literally the purpose of God is that the husband and wife will be so transparent with each other, not just naked.

01:02:11:26 - 01:02:30:00
Unknown
Nakedness is not just a physical thing. This is spiritual. This is emotional. This is your past, your sins, everything naked is this transparency. Yeah. And unashamed. Unashamed is this idea of forgiveness that the wife knows what the man did? Yeah. He doesn't need to be ashamed in front of me. And the man knows what the watch did in her past.

01:02:30:01 - 01:02:47:15
Unknown
That's good. And she doesn't need to be ashamed of me. That's. That's this idea of marriage is just beautiful. Your husband and your wife are the only people you should be able to be honest with and not ashamed. We have a, one of our assessments. When people come to the events, they say we have a question. It says, does anybody feel like they truly know?

01:02:47:15 - 01:03:11:11
Unknown
Do you feel truly seen and known by anyone? Like, completely. And most people say no. Wow. Well, they don't they haven't shared all of themselves. They haven't shared all their darkness. They haven't shared their insecurities, their fears, they haven't shared all that stuff. And so the challenge is, is when you don't share all of yourself, you don't actually ever feel truly loved because they're loving a masked version.

01:03:11:11 - 01:03:35:26
Unknown
Yeah. So you can't ever feel love because they don't know the real you. And you know that subconsciously you know that. And so you're like, you don't feel the love. And so really, where true intimacy happens is through sharing and through right into, into intimacy into me you see. Yeah. Right. So that's so, so if we want to build intimacy and connection it is through sharing of ourselves.

01:03:35:26 - 01:03:53:03
Unknown
Yeah. And giving of ourselves and our spouse should be the number one person that we do that. Yeah. And is interesting. There was a, a while back I had looked at something inappropriate on my phone. I think it's scrolled on Instagram and just was. I stayed too long on some images that I shouldn't have. And and I was thinking about it and I was like, now I'm not going to tell her.

01:03:53:06 - 01:04:15:17
Unknown
And so tell Jessica. Right. And so what's interesting is when there's a really good book called Leadership and Self-deception. And what happens is when you make a mistake and you don't do something you know, you should do, or you do something you know you shouldn't do, it puts you in a box. And what happens is, is then you start to act differently towards the people around you.

01:04:15:19 - 01:04:38:00
Unknown
So I noticed myself wanting to act different. Yeah. I was like, I just was. I was unsure if she maybe new or like, how should I feel like I was acting different around her because of my mistake? Yeah. You know, so like secrets in those things, they actually hurt us. They're hurting the relationship. But yeah, but we start to shift inside the relationship when we when we make a mistake.

01:04:38:00 - 01:04:57:23
Unknown
And that's the same thing not only in marriage but in all relationships. So if there's a boss or right, one of your guys, a team members or something, if you know you should have said something, didn't say something or something's bothering you and you don't address it, it stays underneath the surface and you start to go in the box with that person, and then it creates resentment and issues.

01:04:57:23 - 01:05:10:09
Unknown
That's why I'm a huge fan of clearing. I want to clear as often as I can with my team members, with my wife. If there's ever anything that's on my mind, I'm going to see if I can process through it. But then I'm going to go find a way to clear it. Yeah, and go move on from it.

01:05:10:09 - 01:05:36:02
Unknown
That way it doesn't turn into accidental resentment. Right. But, what does it say? That's a small amount of bitterness leads to, what's the the great proverb. But anyway, bitterness is a small amount of bitterness ruined. Relationships. Yeah. Clear it up. Strength and marriage. Marriage also. It's it's it's there's this unity, and I think one of the biggest ones is most secular marriages are united, you know, just by sex.

01:05:36:05 - 01:05:52:19
Unknown
Yeah. You would just sleep in the same bed. But there's unity in marriage. It's so much deeper than that. Unity. There's actually a spiritual unity of faith. Unity, which is what shows do we go to? A lot of couples. That guy goes to church and she doesn't. You need for a marriage to be healthy. You need unity with faith.

01:05:52:22 - 01:06:08:03
Unknown
You have to serve the same God. You can't be the wife going to church, and the man is at work and the wife is, you know, that church and a man is out. No, there has to be unity and faith, unity and values. We have to value the same thing, unity and mission. Like we're both on the same mission.

01:06:08:03 - 01:06:25:20
Unknown
All of you and your wife are literally building the same thing. There has to be a unity of mission. Unity of value. The way we discipline our kids, some fathers are like, some dads thinks I should smack the kid. The wife doesn't think it's just my. The kids. And there's this division and all this little disagreements actually cause a crack in your marriage.

01:06:25:25 - 01:06:42:01
Unknown
And the quicker you deal with it, the more united and bless your marriage will be. It's all this little. But the faith one is so important are fun. So marriages I see they're so romantic with each other. But if you don't get the God's unity, the God unity is so important. Do you both read the Bible? When do you pray together?

01:06:42:02 - 01:06:58:27
Unknown
Yeah. Like couples, actually, married couples have to have time every week where they pray together. I believe the man should be praying over as well. So I pray over Jessica every day. Yeah, I make sure that I'm. I'm blessing her. And, like, even even in her dreams, like, when I if I don't pray over her at night.

01:07:00:04 - 01:07:25:23
Unknown
Like it's it's it's not impactful or she'll have bad dreams and so like I'm, I'm, I'm really there's there's a level of spiritual attacking warfare happening inside. Right. Your guys's ministry space I'm sure to Mars. And so we have to have a regularly put a cup of protection around us. So, yeah, 100% marriages. Many marriages work when you follow the Bible, you know, the the man says, yes, for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

01:07:25:28 - 01:07:41:01
Unknown
Sometimes men are fun. As a pastor, he's so many times the wife has to drive the men to the church. Yeah, the wife has to wake the guy up to go to church. The wife has to tell him, hey, husband, let let's read the Bible. Let's go. Let's read the Bible. Let's pray together. It looks like, mate, you're the leader of the house.

01:07:41:01 - 01:08:03:24
Unknown
It's like I use this analogy when we preach. It's like I'm carrying Millie. And when I carry Millie. Looks good. It looks cute. Imagine if she was carrying me. How gay does that look like? I could literally imagine if. And I'm going to do that now. We're doing a marriage conference next week. I'm going to get Millie to carry me on stage, just to show the men how okay it looks when your wife leads you to be leading.

01:08:03:29 - 01:08:17:10
Unknown
Your wife should not be waking up to go to church. Your wife should not be telling you, hey, let's pray together. You should be doing that. You should be saying, hey, it's time to fast. Yeah, like I always tell me, hey, Millie, we need to fast next week. Yeah, let's fast for a few days, guiding me spiritually like, hey, we haven't fasted.

01:08:17:10 - 01:08:35:17
Unknown
Let's fast for three days next week. Yeah, let's let's pray together. Let's, you know, let's let's take time out and go somewhere to pray. Let's, I'm. You're the leader. Stop. Stop putting that pressure on your wife. She wasn't created to lead you. Yeah, you were created to lead that. Don't put that role on your wife. Be the head of the house, not just in masculinity and your arms and your.

01:08:35:18 - 01:08:53:26
Unknown
You know, I'll build them, you know, looking good. And competence and money. Leadership is so much deeper than that. Yeah. There's financial leadership. There's obviously competence and leading with your skill and your business. But there's also spiritual leaders. You're a spiritual leader. You're the priest of your house, the prophet of your house, the protector of your house, the provider of your house.

01:08:53:29 - 01:09:16:07
Unknown
It's so much more than just leading her financially and, you know, protecting her. Yeah, I think it's important in marriage to always be trying to get greater unity, greater understanding, as you're saying, like clearing the box, like we're trying to always be on the same page, understand each other's values. And that's something that, you know, every time we have a disagreement, you always in the middle be like, I love this.

01:09:16:09 - 01:09:29:27
Unknown
You're like, I love this fight. I love this argument. And it's because you always say to me, you always remind me. And I think it's good you remind me of this because sometimes in the middle of a disagreement, you know, it feels like, oh, the world is ending. Oh, we're so we're so we're against each other. We're so just united.

01:09:29:27 - 01:09:50:08
Unknown
But the beautiful thing about when you disagree on something is it brings to light where there has been disunity, where we haven't agreed about the same thing, where we haven't been united over one particular thing. That's why now we've, we, we've reshaped our minds to realize that a disagreement is actually such a gift because it allows for greater unity.

01:09:50:15 - 01:10:07:17
Unknown
It allows us to understand each other. It brings up issues that we didn't even know we disagreed about. And so it brings greater unity. That's what we teach at our marriage events. Yeah. Is that conflict, like healthy conflict, is actually a good thing. It's a great right. So it's a great thing that's where we level up. But but our perspective drives our performance.

01:10:07:17 - 01:10:31:19
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. So our perspective around something drives how we do it. Yeah. And how we take it in. Right. So if we believe conflict is a bad thing. Yeah. Every time it happens it's going to it's going to be a bad thing. But if we believe conflict is the path to greater healing and understanding to be okay and unity, right then each time you lean into conflict, you'll you'll go, okay, okay, I know this is for like, something good's going to come from this conversation, this conflict.

01:10:31:19 - 01:10:48:03
Unknown
I don't like it right now. Yeah, that's something. I mean, guys, will we like I I'm okay with conflict. Yeah. If I'm not the one who did something wrong. Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. But but in general, like, conflict, like, so we have that we teach that with couples. We help them really process. Yeah. Through those. Yeah. I love arguing with my wife.

01:10:48:06 - 01:11:04:15
Unknown
Yeah I love arguing. And and some people are like I hate arguing. I don't want to argue. Are we arguing? No. Arguing can be done in the right way. The Bible says, in your anger, do not sin. Anger is not wrong. The question is how you do, how you deal with that anger. Are you self-controlled? Is it rage?

01:11:04:15 - 01:11:22:06
Unknown
Is it resentment? Is it coming out with this angry spirit also coming out in a loving spirit of you arguing as this? The goal of marriage is to be united. The goal of marriage, as I said, is it's to be united, not just physically but mentally. Unity of mind, unity of mission. But the truth is, there are a lot of parts in our life that are not united yet.

01:11:22:10 - 01:11:37:05
Unknown
We don't know it yet. Like I think I'm united with me. But there's a lot of areas. We're not united yet. There's a lot of values. We're not united yet. And what arguing does, it shows you a, a, a leak in the house is like, when was the last time you saw a leak in your house? You're like, oh, man, I don't want to find that out.

01:11:37:05 - 01:11:52:00
Unknown
You're so grateful. I'm like, I'm glad I can see a leak in my roof, because if I didn't notice that leak, it would destroy the house. But now that I'm noticing it, now, I can deal with it. And that's how have you all doing it? Simply, God is showing us a leak in our marriage. Let's fix that. Let's stop for a moment.

01:11:52:03 - 01:12:11:22
Unknown
Not in rage, not in resentment or bitterness. Let's just stop. Let's fix it and let's move on. And that's really I love arguing, because when you think of unity, I think of Jesus and Peter in the Bible. Jesus, you know, Jesus had 12 disciples, but he had three disciples who are his closest disciples. That was James, John, and Peter that were his closest disciples, that he took them anywhere.

01:12:11:29 - 01:12:31:12
Unknown
But as they took them everywhere he went. But Peter and Jesus had a very interesting relationship because Peter loved Jesus with all his heart. Peter was this guy that was like, chop the guy's ear off for Jesus. He was like, Jesus, I'm gonna die for you. I'm gonna. He had this crazy love for Christ. And yet, you see, although he loves them, Jesus rebukes Peter more than he rebukes anyone.

01:12:31:15 - 01:12:57:02
Unknown
Jesus literally looks at Peter and says, get behind me, Satan. Like when you think about a relationship, that's not the way. That doesn't seem like a nice loving relationship. Jesus looked at Peter and said, get behind me, Satan, with you. It's this conflict, this idea of arguing all this conflict or tension. But when you see that, you think they wouldn't be close, but later on, Peter ends up dying for Jesus and crucified, and he's so united with Jesus to the point where he says, don't crucify me like my God.

01:12:57:08 - 01:13:21:27
Unknown
Crucify me upside down. So you see this tension of get behind me. Satan didn't lead to bitterness or anger or division actually led to more unity. Yeah, and that's the goal of marriage. It's that after an argument, me and me are so much more united than when we started. And I think every like disagreement. We have a question I'm always asking myself as a wife is what have I done or said that has made you feel dishonored?

01:13:22:04 - 01:13:43:17
Unknown
Because I find that most conflicts is where the husband will feel dishonored or disrespected by the wife, and the wife feels unloved and not cherished because God made us differently, man, husbands and wives differently. And we see that different prescriptions in Ephesians five because Paul tells the husbands to love and cherish your wife, and he tells the wives to respect our husbands.

01:13:43:17 - 01:14:03:04
Unknown
So we have different needs, and we have different things that really get to the heart of what leads to offense. And I find tends to be with men. It's dishonor. You feel dishonored, you feel put down. You feel like I use my words to put you down, to make you less valuable. And so I think we should always be asking ourselves that in conflict, husbands should be asking, what have I done?

01:14:03:04 - 01:14:21:18
Unknown
That it's made you feel unloved, less valuable, because that's tends to be what we feel as wives. And what have I done or said, or could be perceived as not honoring to you? Because the thing is, a lot of husbands and wives unknowingly offend each other because God made us differently. So I as a wife, I don't, I don't really, I've never really complained.

01:14:21:18 - 01:14:37:19
Unknown
Do I felt dishonored? That's just not the way I'm wired. Because God didn't make me like that. I have said I felt unloved, and so it's important for us to go on this journey of learning. What is it as a wife that I can do that will make you feel honored? As my husband, as the head of my home, as my leader.

01:14:37:26 - 01:14:57:18
Unknown
And that's why I'm so glad when we disagree. It is bringing greater unity and it's allowing me to know how to to love you better as your spouse. That's why I love disagreement, because it leads to greater understanding as we, as we, as we start to close this out, I have a question for you guys. You guys are obviously anointed, right?

01:14:57:18 - 01:15:12:18
Unknown
By God, I can tell there's an anointing on your life and your marriage. And so God's going to do some big things, or it's just the beginning. Do you guys feel that way? It's just it's just the beginning. Oh, yeah. Super exciting. So what's what what is your vision or what are you working on? What are you working towards?

01:15:12:18 - 01:15:31:01
Unknown
Like what's the future look like? The impact that you want to have or where you're going to be having that. I'm curious. Yeah. We're, our heart really is to see a revival. I think we haven't seen a revival in America for a very long time. Yeah. Revival is when. When what the church couldn't do in 100 years.

01:15:31:01 - 01:15:49:21
Unknown
God does in a moment. You know, churches are saying ten salvations, one week, 100 salvations. But when revival hits, you don't see ten salvations. You see generation saved across history when you study revival. John Wesley, when he preached in the 1700s, England was saved like it wasn't a street saved. It was England saved. The nation was saved, right?

01:15:49:21 - 01:16:11:27
Unknown
Ha! Bonking Africa, they literally just hit 100 million salvations in Africa. So millions of people are saved. And that's really a heart over America. It's we want to see an awakening. We want to see a revival. And as we travel to do ministry, we're not just gonna be in America. We're going to be traveling Brazil, Indonesia, Canada where really our hardest to really just ignite a passion for revival.

01:16:12:01 - 01:16:33:11
Unknown
And every nation we go to, and this zeal that we need an awakening because Islam was seeing Islam take over. We're seeing is atheism increase. We're seeing LGBTQ and pride parades. And 25% of Gen Z are now gay. And the only way to fix that is a revival. We need a spiritual awakening. We need the Holy Spirit to just sweep this country.

01:16:33:20 - 01:16:50:11
Unknown
Oh. We're gonna lose this country. So that's kind of. Yeah, I guess the next, the next, the next year for us, we're going to be once we want to see revival, we want to feel heaven, man. We don't want to feel. Yeah. We don't want to. It's not about filling a church building or, we're planting, actually, eco church in Florida next year.

01:16:50:11 - 01:17:10:23
Unknown
Really? Yeah. So great. I could check out Australia at the moment. Well, you guys are bringing some power, and I believe, I believe we are ripe for an awakening and a revival and 100%. Amen. Amen. Where, where can people find you? Yes. Social media. Find us on social media. Martin said draw on all the platforms at Millicent said that Millicent said on all the platforms.

01:17:10:23 - 01:17:25:10
Unknown
And yeah, follow us to see what God is doing. And if you're in a in Orlando or Miami, Florida would be planting a church there next year. So if you're not planted already in a church, you can be a part of what God is doing. Check us out, Echo Church, Globacom and be a part of what God is doing.

01:17:25:13 - 01:17:30:26
Unknown
Love it! Thank you too for coming out here last minute. Thank you, thank you man, it's an honor to be here, I appreciate it.