Why 'God Told Me' Becomes Dangerous without Counsel

In this Rise Up Kings Podcast episode, Coach Mondo sits down with Coach Jon Wood (“Switch”) and Pastor David for a deep, unfiltered conversation about Jesus, politics, masculinity, sexual ethics, prophetic words, and hearing God’s voice in a divided culture.

This isn’t a surface-level debate.

The discussion breaks down how Jesus’ announcement of the Kingdom of God was a direct challenge to Rome’s power, why modern political labels don’t fit a first-century Messiah, and how Jesus would likely be received today in conversations surrounding LGBTQ issues, cultural identity, and morality.

The episode also unpacks:

- Jesus’ teachings as nonviolent resistance, not passivity
- Why “God told me” can become a spiritual manipulation tactic
- How to discern a true word from God using Scripture, fruit, peace, and - maturity
- Whether spiritual gifts can be developed or are only divinely assigned
- The difference between meekness and weakness for strong Christian men
- When force, self-defense, or protection may be morally justified

This conversation challenges both political sides because Jesus doesn’t fit modern categories. He confronts power, disrupts comfort, loves people without affirming sin, and calls men to strength under control.

The episode closes with a sobering reminder from John 10:27:

“My sheep hear My voice… the real question isn’t whether God is speaking — it’s whether you’re listening.”

Chapters: 
00:00:00 — Was Jesus conservative or liberal? Kingdom of God vs Caesar
00:02:17 — A first-century Jew in 21st-century political categories
00:03:18 — Social conservatism, fiscal generosity, and sexual ethics
00:04:31 — “Turn the other cheek” as nonviolent resistance
00:06:52 — How Jesus would be received today (LGBTQ + politics)
00:10:16 — “I have a word from the Lord”: when to be cautious
00:12:18 — Scripture as the filter: conviction vs condemnation
00:14:23 — The fruit test: character, maturity, and relationship
00:17:14 — Shocking real-life prophetic moments
00:36:34 — How to hear God: Scripture, counsel, reason, tradition
00:46:18 — Meekness vs weakness: the lion choosing restraint
00:54:06 — Self-defense, force vs violence, and Christian ethics

For more information on Rise Up Kings, go to https://riseupkings.com/youtube 

Not ready to do an in-person event? Join our online community here riseupkings.com/4pillarman-yt

#Jesus #Politics #PropheticWord

For more information on Rise Up Kings, go to https://riseupkings.com/youtube

Not ready to do an in-person event? Join our online community here riseupkings.com/4pillarman-yt

Transcript

00;00;00;01 - 00;00;23;03
Unknown
Was Jesus a conservative or a liberal? The very fact that Jesus claimed the kingdom of God has arrived, which is a political statement against the power claim of Rome and Caesar. Jesus would have taken sexual ethics very seriously the way that he was received and perceived. How do you think that would play out in our current society with LGBTQ, the political climate that we currently have?

00;00;23;04 - 00;00;40;21
Unknown
I think he would be received in the same way you'd received, then seen as a troublemaker. The woman at the well, I don't think that he let them define her for him. He's like, this is true. And also, I see you, he would see the person, not the tax collecting and not the prostitution. If you're telling me what I want to hear, I'm a little more suspicious.

00;00;40;21 - 00;00;56;16
Unknown
If you're telling me that I need to repent, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Have you been hearing God's voice because he's speaking the real question is, are you listening? Welcome to the Rise of Kings podcast. I'm coach Mondo. If I haven't met you yet, I look forward to meeting you sometime in the near future.

00;00;56;16 - 00;01;13;02
Unknown
Hopefully at an event or at a gathering. But I have some very special guests, some of my best friends with me here today. I'm super excited. We have Coach John Wood in the house. Some of you may know him as switch. Others may know him as the push up. Hey, if you don't know what that means, come through an event and you'll find out.

00;01;13;09 - 00;01;43;23
Unknown
He's an amazing man. He loves God. He's got an incredible background. One of the most versatile, manliest men that I know. And I'm honored to call your friend. Glad you on the podcast today. You got it. And then we have coach PDV coach, pastor David slash coach slash pastor slash. Mr. brilliant. This is an incredibly articulate man who is very brilliant in terms of theology and his understanding of the Bible, and can pull and recall scripture like none other.

00;01;43;25 - 00;01;56;04
Unknown
Super excited to have him with us today. He's going to be dropping some bombs on you guys. I want you to buckle your seat belts, get ready because we're gonna have a great conversation. We're gonna be talking about. Is Jesus a liberal or conservative? How do you hear from God? How do you know? What's a word from God?

00;01;56;05 - 00;02;17;17
Unknown
How do you know when you should or shouldn't receive a word from God that you think came from somebody who may or may not produce the fruit? Tune in. Find out. You may be asking yourself, man, can I hear God? We're going to talk about that today. And then last but not least. Meekness versus weakness. What kind of man are you and what kind of man do you want to become?

00;02;17;19 - 00;02;40;14
Unknown
Tune in. We're looking forward to talking to you in just a few moments. Was Jesus a conservative or a liberal? Wow. We're coming in hot. Yeah, he just jumped right into it. Jumping right in. Oh. Warm up. And as if a first century Jew fits into 21st century political categories. Is that the assumption? So the very fact that Jesus claimed, he announced that the kingdom of God has arrived.

00;02;40;14 - 00;02;59;21
Unknown
It has shown up, which is a political statement against the power claim of Rome and Caesar. So he's not just a liberal, he's a radical in that he is upending the power structures that everybody assumed. I'm thinking that well first he wouldn't really be concerned too much right. I don't think he'd be too concerned about what's going on in our politics.

00;02;59;22 - 00;03;18;24
Unknown
There's there's bigger issues at hand. Right. That's that's my first instinct. But I think what you're really getting out of the question, I think what people want to hear the answer to is like, what do we think? And I would think he would be I think he'd be a social conservative and probably like a fiscal liberal is what I'm guessing, just based on what I understand of him from the Bible.

00;03;18;27 - 00;03;36;07
Unknown
Explain what you mean by social conservative. He would fall in line with, I think, what a lot of the modern Republicans or conservatives fall in line with. I don't think he would agree with abortion. Those types of things. But at the same time, I think he would, spend money very freely on the poor and, and on social programs.

00;03;36;09 - 00;04;05;27
Unknown
So I think that's where you kind of fall. So, yeah, he'd be a mixed bag. I think he'd be a mixed bag. Like anyone with, some common sense, in my opinion. I think everybody should be a little bit of a mixed bag. Yes, he absolutely would be, too. The other way I would, I would think that he would be a social conservative is that even if we adjust for time and culture differences, Jesus as a first century Jew would have taken sexual ethics very seriously in the way that that social conservatives do in the 21st century in America.

00;04;05;29 - 00;04;31;18
Unknown
So I would that would call him a social conservative in that sense, too. And I would agree that he was far more concerned with the poor than most of us are comfortable with. I agree 100%. He would probably have been a social progressive in that sense. Yeah. Although he, he wasn't so much concerned with government solutions as much as communities of the poor coming together and looking after one another.

00;04;31;21 - 00;04;52;28
Unknown
And having nonviolent resistance against the, unjust economic systems of their day. I'm going to need you to say that, like, slow three times, because I was, like, a lot, right? That was good. It was really good. Like I was taking notes. So those are the the whole thing of if if somebody asks for your cloak, give him your tunic.

00;04;52;28 - 00;05;13;21
Unknown
Also, it it follows right after the whole if they want you to go a mile, if a soldier says, carry my, my pack for a mile, offer to carry it to. Or that was direct nonviolent resistance because a Roman soldier wasn't allowed to let you carry his bag more than one mile. She said, no, no, no, no, I'm okay for you.

00;05;13;21 - 00;05;38;07
Unknown
Another mile. You were shaming the soldier for controlling you by by offering to carry the extra mile. And Jews weren't allowed to keep another Jews cloak as pledge because you needed it to sleep on and be warm at night. So you weren't allowed to keep it overnight. They said, so if somebody says, hey, give me your give me your cloak as as a financial pledge.

00;05;38;07 - 00;05;54;14
Unknown
He said, what did they just take off your underwear and say, here, take it all so that the guy's like shaved off, I forget it, and he runs away. And then you have your cloak and your tunic. So? So Jesus was was not the whole turn the other cheek was also a form. The right and the left mattered.

00;05;54;16 - 00;06;14;08
Unknown
Because if I hit you on your left cheek, nobody uses the left hand in the Middle East. If I hit you on your left cheek, then I'm treating you as an equal. If I hit you on your right cheek, I'm back handing you. That's how you treat a slave. He said, so if somebody hits you on your right cheek, back into you, turn to them.

00;06;14;08 - 00;06;52;17
Unknown
Your right so you can go. No, hit me like an equal. So that's a direct a nonviolent resistance. So I think he was react reactive and progressive in those senses. That's good stuff. I got a question I want to ask. I want to ask this question for you both. So when you think about the way that he was received and perceived as it pertains to the amount of time he spent with tax collectors, prostitutes, those who were rejected by society, how do you think that will play out in our current society, with LGBTQ conversations around the political climate that we currently have?

00;06;52;18 - 00;07;14;08
Unknown
How do you think that would be perceived and how you think he would be received? Well, I think he would be received. It is the same way you'd receive. Then. He wouldn't be welcomed with open arms by the majority of the populace. I feel you would be seen as a troublemaker, as, as a rebel all the, the same way that he was predominantly perceived at the time.

00;07;14;11 - 00;07;46;04
Unknown
I think he'd be seen the same way, but I think the way he would respond to those people groups is with love. Right. Absolutely. With love. Because they're all created perfectly right. So I was talking to Sammy. I would tell you, graduating roughly. I love Sammy Jo. And, we were talking about this. We're talking about the woman at the well and how I said, you know, Jesus didn't shy away from her lifestyle choices, but he didn't let those lifestyle choices.

00;07;46;06 - 00;08;15;14
Unknown
I don't think that he let them define her for him. He's like, this is true. And also, I see you. And so Jesus wasn't supportive of tax collectors, you know, collaborating with Romans against their own. Nor was he supportive of prostitutes. He just he just saw behaviors, I think, as more symptoms rather than diseases that that were everybody's broken.

00;08;15;16 - 00;08;39;27
Unknown
And so he would see the person, not the tax collecting and not the prostitution. And so all of us, we all fit into those categories. And so he would hang out with the people because he would see past all those definitions and labels that we put on people to distance ourselves from them. Would you say that would be the same as how we use the phrase here in rock?

00;08;40;00 - 00;08;57;06
Unknown
He would see that as an action and not as part of their identity. So this is something, you know, your prostitution is something you have done. It is not who you are. It is not in your identity. You can step away from that. I think so for me, I feel like like you said, John, I think that he would be treated the same way he was treated.

00;08;57;07 - 00;09;22;02
Unknown
I think that he would be definitely misunderstood 100%. And I feel like there would be a lot of controversy around him. I can imagine all the different memes that would show up on social media, right? Like all the different emotions that would be riled up, the misunderstanding around his character because he's not thinking about this world outside of the soul that he could bring with him to the next.

00;09;22;05 - 00;09;54;07
Unknown
Oh, absolutely. I think also it's there's many denominations as we have. It's impossible that he would show up. Exactly how all of us perceive. He would show up. Right. He's going to he's going to absolutely not be in the mold in some way or form for almost all of us, I would think. Right. So I think that's the other thing that would pop up is the accusations of being a false prophet and all these things, because he doesn't fit into the box of how we would perceive him universally.

00;09;54;07 - 00;10;16;20
Unknown
For all of us, for all denominations. It'd be impossible, right, for him to be how we all perceive him to be. Yeah, right. 100%. Pastor David, how can we best know if we, you know, we we encounter somebody and maybe our our theology is not that deep or we were just getting into the word. We're we're new in the faith and all types of people come around to.

00;10;16;24 - 00;10;38;27
Unknown
So what we do I have a word for you from God. And how do we spot when something is from God or not? From God? That's a big question. When people say, I have a word from the Lord for you. My question is, am I going to like this? Because if you're telling me what I want to hear, I'm a little more suspicious.

00;10;38;29 - 00;11;02;04
Unknown
If you're telling me that I need to repent, then I'm. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're coming. You're speaking for God. But there's, there's quite an industry of prophets telling people what they want to hear, which is the great tradition of false prophets. We read about, prophets. We have bulls horns and, like, oh, this is how you're going to go to the Arameans.

00;11;02;04 - 00;11;26;14
Unknown
Ahab, right before Ahab goes and loses his life in battle, loses. When, Micaiah the true prophet is like I saw sheep without a shepherd saying Ahab is going to die in battle. So my first question is, do you always give good news if you always give good news? I'm less keen that you're speaking for God.

00;11;26;16 - 00;11;52;15
Unknown
Man I strong you know, back in the day if a prophet was off me they could potentially get stoned to death. So there was a heavier weight with the words coming out of your mouth such as I got a word from God. And it was taken a lot more cautiously. And I feel that now it is thrown around so much more frivolously because there's no accountability.

00;11;52;18 - 00;12;18;28
Unknown
So when someone says, I've got a word from God, that's a very interesting perspective. My first thought is, does it filter through the word? So if this was a Bible, which matter of fact, here we have one right here. So if somebody says, I have a word from God for you, for you, the first thing I'm going to do is take that word and then I'm going to I'm going to literally filter it through the Bible.

00;12;19;00 - 00;12;35;26
Unknown
And if that thing is stuck on something that contradicts what they said, and I'm throwing it out, but I will filter out what they said, I'm throwing out what they said, not the Bible. Yeah, but if it filters through and comes through clean, then I'll hold on to it, because now I have a foundation to build on, which is the scripture.

00;12;35;28 - 00;13;01;12
Unknown
So that's my personal litmus test for word. And then number two does it does it resonate even if it's correction. Because there's a difference between conviction and condemnation. Conviction is designed to draw us to the Lord. Condemnation pushes us away. So is it a word that brings conviction because it's designed to bring me closer to God? If filtered through the word, there's a conviction.

00;13;01;13 - 00;13;20;05
Unknown
It may be an encouragement. It could be either. And then do I have peace, even if it was a hard work to receive? And if those things are in alignment, then I'm more likely to say that this is probably definitely a word from God. For me, somebody needing to say out loud I have a word from God for you.

00;13;20;07 - 00;13;48;05
Unknown
Makes me suspicious 100%. Because if, if we trust that the spirit is at work in believers and, and we especially when it, when it's time for me to teach or coach in poignant moments like we have at our events, I'm leaning very heavily on the spirit. I'm praying diligently beforehand, and I'm hoping that the spirit will speak through me.

00;13;48;08 - 00;13;52;26
Unknown
And if he is, praise God.

00;13;52;28 - 00;14;22;26
Unknown
But I don't need to say I have a word from the Lord for you so that you'll take me seriously. That that that's saying don't don't filter because of what you know, of me or my character or anything, because I just use this trump card. Because I said, God told me. And so when people say, God told me to tell you this, I'm like, okay, I'm trying to be open, but I'm having to fight to be open because of my automatic suspicion.

00;14;23;03 - 00;14;47;18
Unknown
Sure. I think another thing for me that's really important is the fruit. You can always tell a tree by is fruit. The apple tree comes up like, bro, I produce some crazy mangoes like I'm a mango tree. Look at me. When you look at the fruit and like, not me, you're an apple tree. So when someone comes to me and they're like, hey, I have a word from God, the first thing I want to do is assess.

00;14;47;21 - 00;15;09;01
Unknown
All right, well, let's look at the fruit from your life. Like, what kind of fruit are you producing? Can I eat from that tree? And if I don't see the fruit coming from the root of who you are, that to me, creates a little distance. Yeah. Does the person exhibit the fruit of the spirit. And then the other questions I ask is do you know me.

00;15;09;03 - 00;15;30;16
Unknown
Do you love me. If, if not all three of those things are there then it's harder for me to hear. It's harder for me to hear from a random person. Yeah. Right. Just in the same way, if I know somebody knows me, loves me and is spiritually mature, and they have a word of correction for me, then if I if I'm not open to that, the problem is me.

00;15;30;19 - 00;15;52;05
Unknown
Yes. Yes. I love that I don't, I, I think I fall most in line with, what Mondo was explaining earlier about using the Bible as a filter. For me personally, I don't feel like I would ever have a spot where I would tell somebody I would never weigh in on. Do I believe that they're really hearing from God, or are they trying to manipulate me?

00;15;52;05 - 00;16;11;14
Unknown
Or. I don't think I would ever step into that. That's kind of their business. But in my experience, when people have approached me with those phrases, often in my experience it comes down to the way in which they're bringing it forward. So the people who have come at me and said, hey, I've got a word from God for you, brother.

00;16;11;17 - 00;16;34;22
Unknown
Often my experience with those people is, it seems manipulative, kind of what you said, like it's almost like a trump card where, honestly, I've had multiple people coming to me and they almost seem kind of sheepish and they're like, hey, brother. Like, I know this might come off kind of weird, but like, man, I really feel like God's got some a word that he wants me to share with you.

00;16;34;25 - 00;16;55;23
Unknown
And when people have come to me in that posture, it seems to me like it lands like right on the money. Like that was something that I needed to hear that day or something I had been praying on for a couple weeks. And, that's just my experience is, when people approach the subject meekly, maybe is the word I'm looking for.

00;16;55;26 - 00;17;14;23
Unknown
So I'm curious, have either one of y'all ever been in a situation where a random stranger came up and just gave you a word, I think was spot on? Yes. Yeah. And it came exactly like that there, like a waitress coming up and like, hey, I don't know, like this. I don't know your faith. I don't, you know, and then she's like super standoffish and then she just drops like a god grenade, like on the table.

00;17;14;23 - 00;17;34;09
Unknown
And I'm like, whoa. Like, where did that come from? Yeah. Easy. What about you? I'm really mad at you for asking that question. Because I was thinking about this, and I was like, nah, that's that's kind of off topic. Yeah. So I was in England a few years ago, many years ago, before I was spiritually mature and all that.

00;17;34;11 - 00;17;56;16
Unknown
And I'm walking through downtown London and, they always, always trying to give you these free newspapers. Right. The newspapers are still a huge thing in England, and it's all tabloids, and there's all this advertisements, and it's annoying how they're always trying to give you newspapers. And so when people would offer me a newspaper, I would just say, I don't know how to read.

00;17;56;18 - 00;18;24;16
Unknown
Every single time. You what this. I don't know how to read. And I would just walk on and they'd be like, okay, what's weird? And I, I thought it was so funny that I was telling everybody that I don't know how to read, and I'm waiting in line for for a show or something. And the street preacher walks up to me and he's like, he's like, hey, you know, the Bible says that, that liars have no place in in the kingdom of God.

00;18;24;18 - 00;18;44;14
Unknown
In fact, in in revelation 21, it says that that liars go to hell. And, Yeah. So, I mean, it's it's just very, very clear about that. You know, that's all I wanted to say. And he walks away. Wow. I was like, well, we. Yeah. So anyway, totally randomly, like totally random. He had never seen me lie.

00;18;44;14 - 00;19;00;14
Unknown
That's just paper. He didn't hear. I was so mad and humored at the same time. Dude, thank you for that vulnerability, man. Yeah, it takes like, you're brilliant. It takes a lot more courage to be vulnerable and share something like that. So thank you, bro. It was a long time, but this guy's like my favorite pastor. It was like, oh my God.

00;19;00;19 - 00;19;19;27
Unknown
It was like well over three years ago. Yeah. At least. Oh, man. So we're living in Oklahoma and I'm teaching. I'm an adjunct professor at this at the small college in Oklahoma, and I'm rounding the corner of getting ready to teach my class, and I'll come around the corner, and I, I literally bumped into this lady. Right? Like, in the hallway, like, boom.

00;19;19;27 - 00;19;36;15
Unknown
Like the classic bump into the lady, the book fall, I pick up, I pick up my stuff, I'm helping her get hers, and she's like, what are you doing here? And I was like, I was just trying to go to get to my class. I'm so sorry. She's like, no, like, what are you doing here? She was like, you know, you should be traveling and speaking like, never seen.

00;19;36;15 - 00;19;51;19
Unknown
This lady met her a day in my life, and she just literally just boom. And she was like, your wife is pregnant right now with twins. She's like, one of them's going to be a worshiper. The other one's gonna be amazing with you, and your wife is pregnant with twins right now. I'm like, oh my God. Little did I know.

00;19;51;21 - 00;20;11;20
Unknown
She was like, you need to get to work. She's like, God's got work for you to do. I leave, I'm like, this lady's crazy. We go to church and we show up for Bible study. My wife runs through the doors at the church and says, babe, guess what? And slams our hand on the desk and shows me a picture of an ultrasound.

00;20;11;23 - 00;20;39;29
Unknown
And there's two sacks and we're expecting twins. And one of them's a worshiper. It's got this, and they both can sing, but one of them is really like, you notice what she was born to do? And the other one is incredible with youth and children. So it's like, dude, this random lady I bumped into, she wasn't like, in in the prayer closet, you know, with the aroma coming out of the room and the holy is now playing and it literally bumped into me in the hallway and just gives me a word is spot on.

00;20;40;02 - 00;20;59;19
Unknown
So man, like, how often does that happen? Like, has that ever happened to you? How does how does that work? How do you get in a place where you're either giving those types of words to people with that level of accuracy, or you can prepare to do that? Is that even possible? How how how does somebody get to that place?

00;20;59;19 - 00;21;23;15
Unknown
Is that just a gift from God or is that something that can be developed? Yeah. So, I absolutely believe that that's something that can be developed. I believe we just like, our, our giftings genetically. Right. Or the many gifts we're given. You know, someone's good at singing or not singing, right? All these gifts. I believe that we all have a different capacity for,

00;21;23;17 - 00;21;43;19
Unknown
Oh, gosh. For the spiritual gifts. Right? So I think they may show up. And, you know, some people are gifted because they're supposed to be gifted. I mean, it comes easy to them, and I believe maybe some people, you know it. It's not in the cards for them. Right? But I do believe that as we work in our sanctification, I would like to believe that as we work towards our signification, that all of us are capable of becoming more Christlike.

00;21;43;19 - 00;21;57;28
Unknown
And I believe as we all become more Christlike, that, the gifts from the Holy Spirit would be more likely to appear in our lives. So that's what I would think. And I don't know if there's any theological basis for that or but, that's what I would like to believe is that, all these things are possible.

00;21;58;00 - 00;22;24;02
Unknown
Yeah. Right. I agree, I think that like when we look at First Corinthians 12 and, and other passages that talk about spiritual gifts, you know, there's Paul says they're apportioned differently, right? And so someone with the gift of prophecy, maybe it comes very naturally for them to speak the word of God. Right? And they and they do so with, with poise and eloquence and whatever.

00;22;24;05 - 00;22;46;24
Unknown
And I can't use as an excuse what I'm not gifted at that. So all my spiritual gifts inventories have me with mercy way at the bottom. So here's how that plays out. If you tell me you're sick, here's my response. Okay, well, tell me when you're better and we'll go do something for Jesus. You know, like, I just I don't I don't get oh, I'm so sorry.

00;22;46;24 - 00;23;07;05
Unknown
I mean, how can I help? Can I get you some can I get you some ibuprofen? That does not occur to me. Okay. I was low on mercy, but that's not an that can't be an excuse. Right? Right. I have to have concern one for another. Right. So I can develop the mercy. And it may take more effort than, say, another gift.

00;23;07;08 - 00;23;27;03
Unknown
Does that make does that make sense. And so I think yeah. And so I there's a pastor who, who did a he did a session for my whole church staff and he said we need to operate in the prophetic. And I was like, okay, what is this guy talking about? Here we go. And what he said was, we don't need to be saying, God told me to tell you all the time.

00;23;27;06 - 00;23;47;29
Unknown
We just need to be deeply prayerful that God would speak through us and then speak confidently and cogently without dropping that trump card as we speak into people's lives, affirming them, challenging them, encouraging them like operate in the prophetic, like just speak the Word of God because the Spirit of God is in you, so good and so that that.

00;23;47;29 - 00;24;25;26
Unknown
So I think that as a if I agree with you and the the cost is prayer. Yeah. The cost of divine unction, which is speaking the Word of God, the cost of that is prayer. So you brought up Sammy earlier, and this story is totally remind me of him, because that's the exact experience I had with him on the beach where I'm having this conversation with him, and I just keep having this overwhelming desire and feeling to talk about skydiving, which is completely out of my box, because I've never been skydiving, and I generally try to stay in my lane and not talk about things I don't know anything about, right?

00;24;25;26 - 00;24;52;13
Unknown
So I'm totally fighting this urge to speak about, skydiving and when there's really deep, meaningful conversation. And I just said to him, just like this is a hey, man, like, it's on my heart, like I have to bring up skydiving. And I start talking about it, and his face just lights up. And these charts expressed to me that he had just been skydiving and he and it became so relevant, and it became the key that tied this whole conversation together.

00;24;52;13 - 00;25;10;16
Unknown
And it was, it was a conversation on faith, and it just brought everything together for him of a leap of faith, literally for him. And it was an incredible experience. But that's in my experience. The best way to go about those things isn't, trump card somebody, hey, God told me that you need to hear this. And that morning he put his faith in Jesus.

00;25;10;16 - 00;25;40;10
Unknown
And in that day, he was baptized. Wow. 15 minutes later. 14 minutes later. And how did the skydiving reference apply to him? How was. Oh, you're going to dig it. All right. I'm saying no. So, we were talking about, taking that leap of faith, and he was really expressing his struggle with wanting to reach out to God and have a deeper relationship with Jesus, but not knowing what that would look like based on his previous his previous experiences.

00;25;40;10 - 00;25;59;04
Unknown
And, and, what I explained to him is that, again, I would never have used a skydiving reference, ever, because I don't do that. But I said, you know, I would imagine that when you get ready to go skydiving, that before you get on that plane, it would be really scary. It's really scary. Like you could think like all these things could happen.

00;25;59;06 - 00;26;11;13
Unknown
And then when you get on the plane and you're in, you're waiting at the door and you're waiting to jump out. Like it could be so terrifying, like, oh my gosh, like something could go wrong. And even if you've done it many times, you can feel like, oh, wait, is this really what I should be doing right here?

00;26;11;15 - 00;26;33;10
Unknown
But then that moment I would imagine again. But I've never been skydiving. When you leave that door and that feeling of freedom and openness, that feeling of freedom and relief would never be possible without the front end, without what occurred at the door or on the ground before you took that, before you took that leap of faith to even get onto the plane.

00;26;33;12 - 00;26;50;28
Unknown
Right? So it all ties together and, again, the rest of it's his story I don't want to share too much, is sure, but it's, It was incredible. I'm getting children now. Just thinking about it now, I love that. I love that you were yielded in that moment. Because I feel like in life, there are so many opportunities like that that could be missed.

00;26;51;00 - 00;27;15;26
Unknown
And in that missed opportunity, there's a soul that may never come out of the darkness and get into the light. But because you chose to yield to the to the gentle unction of the Holy Spirit, in that moment, you reach for something that is spot on. Absolutely. Because I've been skydiving twice. Yeah. And what you describe, you would think that you've done it countless times.

00;27;15;26 - 00;27;32;10
Unknown
Dozens of times. I do have the experience of doing many scary things. So I was able to and it was it was pretty easy. But you know that whatever we have. Right. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. But man, I just wanted to I just wanted to say, you know, kudos to you for for yielding in that moment because that made the difference in him giving his life to Christ.

00;27;32;12 - 00;27;48;14
Unknown
Yeah. And God can do that with any of us at any time, as long as we're yielded. Absolutely. And we're willing to listen. Right. Because it takes faith. It takes faith, a reference, something you've never done before to connect with another person and help that person connect to Christ. Right. And I'd say also just stay focused on the Lord, right.

00;27;48;18 - 00;28;15;00
Unknown
Because we're going to all when we know this you can find anything you look for. So if you're always staying focused on the Lord you will find him everywhere you go. Yeah. Everywhere. Yeah. It's great. It's awesome. I heard a friend told me when I was getting discipled and then he just goes into spaces and he can feel like, you know, how you can kind of feel a frequency or vibration or something when you're in a space with somebody, and he'll just pray internally and just say, Lord, I'm available.

00;28;15;02 - 00;28;37;21
Unknown
I'm available even if it feels scary or this and that. And I thought that was really good. And, just recapping what some of the things that you guys were talking about, about like prophets and guys and God has a word for you and trying to discern if it's the word of God or not. Generally, I've seen and experienced that like people will just say something without knowing that they're being prophetic, right?

00;28;37;21 - 00;29;02;08
Unknown
They'll just like kind of just say it and speak it and you're like, wait, what? Right. And I wanted to reference a verse, that you brought up Mando about that. You know, you know, for our audience that they should just, they should know a tree by its fruit. Right. Jesus says in Matthew seven, Matthew 715 he says, beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

00;29;02;11 - 00;29;22;23
Unknown
You will recognize them by their fruits are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles. So every healthy tree bears good fruit. But the disease tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a disease tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

00;29;22;26 - 00;29;44;27
Unknown
Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. I say that chapter and verse again. So it's Matthew seven 15 to 20. Okay. So if anybody wants to go look that up and and just, just to shift into, you know, we're talking about this, this times about God and stuff when, you guys are so impressive by the way.

00;29;44;29 - 00;30;04;17
Unknown
You know, and, when is a time in your life, Mando, undeniably. You know, it was God that showed up. Oh, man. I have countless stories, so I'll share a story. This this, it'll tie together two of our pillars of faith family fitness and finance. And no tie in the faith in the family. Family pillar.

00;30;04;17 - 00;30;24;17
Unknown
And I'll share a brief story about my wife. For many of you, you know that my wife and I have 11 children together. I jokingly say I push them and she pushes them out. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. That lady didn't know that. Well, let me play one. Twins. Hey, one. Oh, man. I love my wife.

00;30;24;18 - 00;30;43;20
Unknown
And I love my wife. So when I was 91, and I don't love my wife because I have no bro, no saying I'm not. I'm not calling it. So I'm just saying we practice all the time, the ladies and all this on this podcast. I was like, please don't love me. This. But, so I'm 19 years old where at the University of Delaware on the college campus.

00;30;43;20 - 00;31;01;19
Unknown
And I just gotten out of a relationship, from high school, and I said in my car, Lord, I don't want to date another woman until it's my wife, and I'm willing to wait until I graduate from college to do so. And man, I keep seeing this incredibly beautiful, angelic being just walking around campus. And I'm like, oh my gosh.

00;31;01;19 - 00;31;19;25
Unknown
And like, it's like every six months that I would see her. So now we're in the spring of my sophomore year and I see her again. And man, I come up to her and we exchange information and we start to spend some time together. But mind you, I just prayed this prayer. I don't want to date another one.

00;31;19;25 - 00;31;37;26
Unknown
And this is my wife. So I'm standing in her doorway and I'm talking to her. She's in the 30s. She's on the 13th floor in the towers. Okay, the West Towers. And as I'm standing there talking to her, I said, it's an early it's like 10:00 on Saturday morning, and sun is kind of beaming through the stained glass in the hallway.

00;31;37;28 - 00;32;00;13
Unknown
I'm standing in the doorway. It's quiet, and I'm just in the doorframe. Enough where I have no peripheral vision to the hallway, and it's a pretty big hallway. And in this ear, audibly out loud, I hear, you looking at your wife like, which one of my friends is this? I don't recognize that voice. Yeah, you're looking at your wife.

00;32;00;15 - 00;32;22;13
Unknown
You are looking at your wife. And I turn to look to my left, and there's nobody there. I literally did like this in a hallway. Oh, my God, what is going on? Now pause that story and go and rewind to back to how I was raised. My parents taught me, hey, we believe in Jesus. But we didn't go to church every weekend and they were like, hey, just go live your life, figure out what you want to do with your 32.

00;32;22;13 - 00;32;36;17
Unknown
Get married. Don't even worry about it. So this is what was in my head. Now I'm 19, standing in his doorway and I hear this and I look and there's nobody there and I'm freaking out. I think I'm literally going crazy. And she looks at me. She's like, are you okay? I'm like, no. She was like, what's wrong?

00;32;36;17 - 00;32;52;26
Unknown
I'm like, I gotta go. And I and I both take off. So fast forward, we date for three years, and then it gets to that point where it's either you're going to marry me or I'm done, and we're going to go our separate ways. And I wasn't ready to marry her yet because I got this thing in my head.

00;32;52;26 - 00;33;16;22
Unknown
I'm 21 years old, 22 years old now, and I'm like, oh man, I can't provide for you yet. So I'm not in a position to marry you. Fast forward, I'm in the New York Jets locker room. I'm sitting in my locker in training camp. I got my helmet on. I'm mentally going over my plays. Her and I have broken up under the agreement that we're just going to see what God has for us.

00;33;16;25 - 00;33;36;12
Unknown
It was amicable. I hear in my heart, not audible in my heart, and I know is the Lord. Mondo. Look around. What do you see? I look around, I'm like, man, these are all the guys that are like, these are my heroes growing up. These are the guys I've been watching as a little kid play NFL football. That inspired me to be in this place.

00;33;36;12 - 00;33;59;04
Unknown
And God, you got me here. He's like, you don't see anything. Open your eyes and look around. And it was like the solid Apollo moment where the scales fell off his eyes and I could see into the hearts of these men six foot five, six foot six, 300 pounds. And I saw their hearts. It was like little boys crying out for help, like boots.

00;33;59;04 - 00;34;16;01
Unknown
And I was crying, looking for purpose. And I was like, Lord, now I'm praying in my in my, in my locker. Lord, why is the condition of the hearts like this? And he said, the reason why is because you're trying to fill a void that I put in their hearts with everything except me. They're doing it with money, sex, drugs, fame.

00;34;16;08 - 00;34;35;01
Unknown
But nothing can fill that void except me. Their priorities are out of order. Now, what are your priorities? And I was like, Lord, your first day. My family. Mind you, I'm single, okay, my family and then football kid. That's my that's my job right now. He's like, your priorities are out of order. I'm like, ain't no way I'm talking to God right now.

00;34;35;01 - 00;34;52;22
Unknown
You must be, God, you can't tell him you're not. First. He's like, you got that right? Then I was like, did my family right? Everybody know faith, family fitness, right? Come on. He's like, that's why you got it wrong. I think in no way, man. I got to be talking to the devil right now. This kid, this can't be right.

00;34;52;25 - 00;35;10;25
Unknown
And he's like, you got it wrong because you are a part of your mother and father's family. But I've given you a family. Now, where is your wife? And I'm back in that moment, standing in her doorway and I'm like, oh my gosh. And it had been eight months since we talked and I didn't know where she was.

00;35;10;25 - 00;35;29;08
Unknown
She could have been married, could have had a kid I didn't know. And I'm like, Lord, if this is you, if this is you speaking to me right now, bring her back to me. A week later, I get a phone call. Friday night bringing 302 area code. Who is this? Hello? Hello, hello, hello. Don't be acting like you don't know who this is.

00;35;29;08 - 00;35;41;13
Unknown
You know, this is. You know this is me. I'm like, hey, girl, what's up? She's like, listen, God just spoke to me and I need to know if your spirit bears witness with this. Because if it does, I want to move forward with you and get married and do it right. And if it doesn't want to move on, my life.

00;35;41;16 - 00;35;57;12
Unknown
Although. Tell me what he said. He said, you're my husband and we need to do this in a way that honors God and get married to start our family. Does your spirit right? When I say, girl, let me tell you a story. We met up for breakfast the next day. Five months later, Mary. And now it's been 22 years.

00;35;57;12 - 00;36;17;29
Unknown
We've been together 11 kids later. So to answer your question, I told you a story about how God audibly spoke to me, and I can I can count those on less than one hand right out loud. I heard his voice and she remembers how I responded. And then he showed up and he confirmed it. And then he brought it back to me.

00;36;18;01 - 00;36;34;21
Unknown
So I believe, man, God's voice can change everything. And we just have to position ourselves in such a way to hear, let me let me ask John and, pd a question on that. How is the best way to go about hearing God's voice? How do you guys hear God's voice?

00;36;34;24 - 00;37;07;27
Unknown
First of all, I've heard that story before and I love to hear it again. So, go ahead. John. Oh, no. You go. So I've, I unpacked this in, weekly wisdom videos. I'm, I'm, I'm heavily influenced by John Wesley's quadrilateral. Except I for for me, it's more of, of a pyramid. Where where Scripture is the foundation.

00;37;07;29 - 00;37;37;03
Unknown
So if anything that we, we hear from God, from a variety of sources that I'm happy to unpack the foundation of Scripture. So if, if any other way we hear from God contradicts Scripture, then it's not from God, right? So, and and not to, not to put the Bible, I'm, I'm wary of idolizing the Bible. The Bible is authoritative and its authority is derivative.

00;37;37;04 - 00;38;07;18
Unknown
And here's what I mean. It's authority is absolute because it derives its authority from God himself. It is it is authoritative because it is one of the most important ways that God has chosen to reveal himself most, the most important one being in the incarnation of Jesus, and the second being Scripture. And so it it's not that that we know that God is God because Scripture says so.

00;38;07;18 - 00;38;29;18
Unknown
It's that Scripture is Scripture because it bears witness to who God is. So it's God and in Scripture, so Scripture is the foundation. Then on top of that is reason like logic. It's not been my experience that God is going to say, I want you to quit your job and move to Alaska, and then I'll tell you what to do.

00;38;29;20 - 00;38;38;20
Unknown
Like, maybe maybe I'm not saying that's not possible. It's just not been my experience. So there's a reason and a logic to it.

00;38;38;22 - 00;39;07;19
Unknown
Maybe. Maybe above scripture, but below that would be godly counsel. So what do I hear from people who have spiritual fruit? Have the fruit of the spirit, love me and know me, and have wisdom exhibited in their life, right? What did those people say? And I try to weigh them, not count them. So. So if they have those four elements, then they weigh more heavily.

00;39;07;22 - 00;39;40;00
Unknown
So probably scripture, then godly counsel, then reason, and then tradition. Like what is the church always taught over across time and across cultures? We do theology with ancient friends, right? So so what what has the church borne witness to over 2000 years and then it's icing on the cake, like direct revelation, like I feel God, I feel peace that God is guiding me in this direction.

00;39;40;03 - 00;39;55;05
Unknown
That would be that that it that is the is the icing on the cake. It's not it's not the main way we hear God. And to say that that's the only way we hear God is the heresy of Montaigne ism, which was the first heresy that the church dealt with in the first century. Oh yeah, nobody likes the first heresy.

00;39;55;05 - 00;40;17;09
Unknown
That's like one of the worst ones. I love you, it, you know, I would say I agree with a lot of what you were saying, but for me, it's, I think it's mostly almost in, like, a discipleship style where I see God showing up, and that's where I. I think I see God more than I hear from him.

00;40;17;11 - 00;40;41;03
Unknown
I think that's where I normally and normally that occurs in who I surround myself with and how I spend my time. So when I'm in the word regularly, when I'm listening to worship music, when I'm, involved in men's discipleship and we're out doing life together, that's often where I experience God, and I see I see him show up in the men around me.

00;40;41;05 - 00;41;07;19
Unknown
Right. That's one of the incredible things about this community is there's so many incredible men of God, and you see them exhibit their faith through their actions. And that speaks so loudly to me. And, it's almost like my life is like one of those, it's almost like a subtitled movie sometimes, like I'll be out doing something really great with some guy's doing something particular scary, whether it's, you know, boxing or on a hike or something.

00;41;07;22 - 00;41;29;00
Unknown
And, and I see the, the narrative, like, literally just jumps out to me like, look, there it is right there that that's a man of God right there showing up. Like the way he's helping that guy carry his pack or the way he's, putting his hand on his brother's shoulder as he's vomiting in the bushes because it's 120 degrees out and we're on mile 18, right.

00;41;29;03 - 00;41;55;22
Unknown
So that's where he speaks to me loudest is, who I surround myself with and what I spend my time doing. Okay, so I got something that just happened. Today is Tuesday, I found is very peculiar. So we went to church on Sunday, and we take care of my wife's grandmother. She's been with us now for 13 years, and she had three strokes and one month, almost died, came to live with us.

00;41;55;24 - 00;42;08;13
Unknown
So it got to a point now where she needed to be in a nursing home. And she's in agreement with that. She's super, super happy, but she's like ten minutes from my house. So we were going to drop her off at the church. And I jokingly tell her, there's a couple of friends that I have in there, right?

00;42;08;13 - 00;42;21;22
Unknown
One of the guy's names is Allen, and I don't know why I'm drawn to this guy, but when I see him, I'm always just like Allen. He's like, Mondo, how are you doing? And he's in a wheelchair. And I asked him how tall he was before. He's in a wheelchair. He's 36 one. I'm like, dude, you're like my, you know.

00;42;21;25 - 00;42;37;17
Unknown
So he and I struck up a friendship. Every single time I'm there, I go to see him. I go see Charlotte and I go see Daniel. Okay, so Allen sitting outside in the courtyard, just basking in the sun as I'm pushing my mom through the hallway, my mom's grandma. And I'm like, my mom, you want to go see Allen?

00;42;37;19 - 00;42;54;23
Unknown
She's not very social. She's like, whatever. If you want to, we can, I guess. So I'm like, we're going to go see Allen. She's like, all right, fine. So we go outside. I sit down in the chair and in the context of hearing from that, I'm thinking about some of you who might be listening to this right now.

00;42;54;23 - 00;43;10;25
Unknown
You may be thinking, well, man, I don't hear God audibly. Like, I don't have a story like that about you and your wife. Like I'm not able to see God move in, you know? And another man like Coach John or I don't have the articulation and annunciation of Pastor David. Like, I don't even know if I hear God like, man.

00;43;10;25 - 00;43;26;19
Unknown
I just want to encourage you with this story if that's you, because I'm sitting there and I have no idea why I'm drawn to this guy outside of the fact that I just I know his name, and I feel compelled every time I see him to strike up at least a conversation, maybe three, five minutes. And we're sitting outside.

00;43;26;19 - 00;43;43;27
Unknown
And the question came to my mind, I wonder how he got in a wheelchair. And I asked him. I said, hey, man, how did you get in the wheelchair? Well, he was like, it happened when I was 17. I said, how old are you now? He's like, I'm 67. I said, you been in his wheelchair or not? This wheelchair.

00;43;43;28 - 00;44;02;29
Unknown
But you've been in a wheelchair since you were seven. He's like, since I was 17 years old. I said, Allen, what happened? He said, I got into a motorcycle accident at 17, and I've been in a wheelchair ever since. And then the thought came to me, dude, I wonder if he knows where he's going. So I said, Allen, where are you going after you leave here?

00;44;03;01 - 00;44;26;13
Unknown
He's like, oh man, you know, I might go to my brother's house. I said, Allen, but like a little further down the road. How big? A little bigger, bro. I was like, not here, but here. He's like, oh, you mean this world? He was like, I don't know, man. I might go to heaven. I might not. So I'm like, hey man, how would you like to know for sure?

00;44;26;15 - 00;44;41;11
Unknown
He's like, I loved you. So I said, Allen, now I think I know why I've been so drawn to you, brother. I was like, man, have you ever accepted Jesus Christ into your heart to be your Lord and Savior? Do you know how much he loves you and man for the next ten minutes? Man, I just poured into him, took him down.

00;44;41;11 - 00;44;56;09
Unknown
The Roman road, taught him about how much God loved him. And then I said, hey, would you like to make that decision right now? He's like, yeah, yeah, I want to do it right now. And man, I pray with him. Charlotte came out there, Charlotte's got one leg. She's her other leg is her leg is cut off right here at the hip.

00;44;56;12 - 00;45;10;14
Unknown
Charlotte comes out to ask Charlotte to before I said it to him. Hey, do you know Jesus? He's like, hey, I know dude, I love Jesus. And Charlotte's got this big bright smile like a flashlight, man. Lights the whole room up and she's like, yeah, let's pray for him right now. I'm on. Go get him. My mom's like, yeah.

00;45;10;16 - 00;45;33;11
Unknown
So, man, I grab out his hand and I pray and he receives Christ. In that moment. And dude, I guarantee you, no matter who you are, no matter where you are listening, moments like that show up for you every day. They show up for all of us because we're. We're his hands and feet. We're his mouthpiece. So it's just a matter of recognizing that God may not show up in a way where you can see it.

00;45;33;12 - 00;45;55;27
Unknown
Another brother. You may not show up in the verbiage that you use. He may not show up and speak audibly to you. But man, there are thoughts that God will bring up to your mind and it's him moving you towards his purpose to be fulfilled in another person's life. Love it. Yeah, yeah. It's good. You guys are so full of wisdom.

00;45;55;29 - 00;46;18;11
Unknown
Speaking of which, you guys are all really strong, powerful men. We got Marines, former football players, and Cetera. And, and others. Now you got to be the toughest person that's going to get a shirt that says my pastor can beat up your best man, right? Yeah. Man's lived in other other countries that other worlds doing the work.

00;46;18;14 - 00;46;41;07
Unknown
And, and so we, you know, we preach strength in servanthood. Iraq. And like, you know, being being a man. Right? Like being masculine. But God talks about meekness, right? And there's a saying that, you know, meekness doesn't mean weakness, but, you know, there's a lot of us that just don't understand, like what? Like how do I be meek?

00;46;41;07 - 00;47;12;23
Unknown
Like, how do I also not be a pushover? Like, how am I supposed to operate as a man in this world? And, Yeah. What do you guys think about meekness? So I love I love this topic. So. So meekness. I see the best way I can describe this. So weakness, if we start with weakness, weakness is the lacking strength.

00;47;12;25 - 00;47;38;20
Unknown
Right. So being frail, whereas strength is absence. So from my understanding meekness would be where we have the strength, but we surrender it. Right. So that would be the my best explanation of the difference between meekness and weakness. And, Jesus exemplifies that the best. Right. And, you know, we often talk about, Jesus as the lamb, which he was absolutely the lamb.

00;47;38;20 - 00;48;00;16
Unknown
So not to be forgotten. But the thing to remember is that a lamb on its own isn't particularly impressive, right? It has no claws. It has no fangs. You know, it can't run very fast. You know, in the animal kingdom, it's just food, right? It lambs have no decision over what happens to them, right. They're just pretty much they're like the original victim.

00;48;00;16 - 00;48;24;15
Unknown
Right. But what makes it impressive is he was the lion who chose to be the land that, in essence, that is the best example of meekness, because he has all of this strength within him. He's God, but he surrenders it for us for love. And I think he's the absolute best example of masculinity is have that that power in control.

00;48;24;18 - 00;48;49;11
Unknown
And most people are very, very attracted to that. You know, women are attracted to it, other men are attracted to it, whereas the opposite is not attractive. When you are very strong and you are out of control, that's scary. That's even more scary than weakness. And often that's how weakness shows up, right? When people are nervous, agitated, really, apprehensive of something.

00;48;49;18 - 00;49;00;11
Unknown
And they have that internal weakness. That's where in my experience, men get scary and they do unpredictable things.

00;49;00;13 - 00;49;29;00
Unknown
There's, when I think about meekness, the, the word that sometimes gets, gets translated as meekness, the fruit of the spirit. The other word, it gets translated as is gentleness. And the, the image I have, there's a, there's a picture of. So I, we're roughly the same age. Action heroes were different when we were young than they are now.

00;49;29;01 - 00;49;59;07
Unknown
They just had more muscles when we were young. And I think about Arnold Schwarzenegger and Clint Eastwood, and there's this picture of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Clint Eastwood standing next to each other, and they're each holding a baby. And to me, that that's a picture of meekness is incredible physical strength and the ability to be to be gentle and, and hold a baby and be mindful of, you know, supporting a baby's head and all the things that go in to holding a baby.

00;49;59;10 - 00;50;17;23
Unknown
When I think of meekness, that's the image I have, is that picture of those two men holding babies the right way? The right gentle way? Well, the interesting thing about that, it ties into what I said a minute ago about how that's very attractive to both genders. I can't remember the name of the picture, but there's a one of the best selling posters in the history of posters.

00;50;17;23 - 00;50;38;26
Unknown
I believe it was a French model, but it's a man with his shirt off and he's holding a baby. It's like the one of the best selling posters. And in the history of posters, right? Yeah. Brett Hanson talks about that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's Yeah. Yeah. Strengthen control. Right. Yeah. So I want to bridge something from the last conversation.

00;50;38;26 - 00;51;06;05
Unknown
I didn't answer that question. And it's John chapter ten verse 27. It says my sheep hear my voice. They know me and they follow me. And when I think about that and the fact that if we submit our hearts to Christ, he says, you hear my voice. It's not a question of can you but you do. It's it's a statement.

00;51;06;08 - 00;51;32;24
Unknown
And with the ability to hear God's voice, there is an expectation to operate in meekness, which from my understanding, the definition is the ability to control the power within. And I love this picture of the baby with a man. I got plenty of experience. No, I'm just saying practice with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, lots of practice. Yeah.

00;51;32;26 - 00;51;54;04
Unknown
And when I think about that, but I. But a picture of dynamite comes to me, and that word is dunamis. And dynamite in and of itself. Could just be a stick. Right. But it's when you light it that it gets ignited and the power gets unleashed. So when I think about that, we are like that tool. We're like that dynamite.

00;51;54;06 - 00;52;18;02
Unknown
And God has the ability at any point to light us and put us on fire for the kingdom to do whatever needs to be done in the moment. And for those in a rut community, you know, we we do hard things. We do. Men like us do things like this. So if you need to let the warrior king out, then you can light that match and you can do what you have to do and go take care of business.

00;52;18;04 - 00;52;44;14
Unknown
But there's also a next big expectation that we can show up in such a way that we can pray with someone and we can actually cry. You know, that's a whole nother conversation. Like, does a week man cry or doesn't make man cry? Right. I think it takes a meek man to cry. A powerful man that is willing to show his heart and be vulnerable in front of a group of other people.

00;52;44;16 - 00;53;08;05
Unknown
Yeah, y'all think about that. I would say that you can't be meek if you're weak because as you said, to be meek you have to surrender something. And if you're just weak, you have nothing to surrender the you have an inability to be meek if you're in that weak state. And we're obviously we're not just talking about physical weakness, we're talking about spiritual weakness.

00;53;08;05 - 00;53;39;21
Unknown
We're talking about emotional weakness. There's like so many types of strength and weakness. Right. But yeah, I would say it would be impossible to be meek. If you are weak in an area. There's nothing to surrender at that point. You're all lamb, you're zero lion all lamb. Another metaphor that's used for meekness is from the New Testament world was they would have these teams of horses, like four horses that would draw a chariot there and be in these races and stuff.

00;53;39;23 - 00;54;06;12
Unknown
And a great compliment for a horse was that it was meek, was that it was incredibly powerful and it was submitted to the the driver, the drivers direction. So it had it had to be both or it wasn't a, it wasn't useful in that situation. Had to be had to have the strength and the surrender I love it.

00;54;06;15 - 00;54;40;10
Unknown
When does it become appropriate for a Christian man, meek to defend, to defend himself or to you know, fight physically. Is that ever appropriate for a Christian? I would say right off the bat, the, controlled strength is probably one of your biggest self-defense is right off the bat. Right. You know, I've spent a lot of time in law enforcement, and there's, a break this real quick.

00;54;40;10 - 00;54;59;25
Unknown
Just, explain this. So when you're looking at police officers who are being attacked, you really have, like, three types of attacks that could happen, right? So one would be someone is fleeing from law enforcement, and then when the cops go to nab them, you know, they try to get away, they resist, they pull their arms away, you know, that type of stuff.

00;54;59;28 - 00;55;31;12
Unknown
Then you'd have one where someone's fleeing, and then the law enforcement officer chases them, grabs a hold of them, and then a fight ensues where it changes like Nelda now, the suspect is no longer trying to flee. They're actually trying to do harm to the police officer. So that'd be like another type of scenario. And then the third type is the type I'm getting ready to talk about where someone actually attacks a police officer because they want to continue doing whatever it is they're doing, and they want to eliminate the police officer as a potential threat to the thing that they want to do.

00;55;31;15 - 00;55;58;06
Unknown
Well, there's something in common with that. That last type that I'm talking about, the most dangerous type. And this is always true. They only attack people that they think that they can beat. In that third category. No suspect would ever attack a law enforcement officer if they didn't believe that they were going to win the encounter. Right. And that's exactly what I'm describing here is, is is that strength in control?

00;55;58;12 - 00;56;18;02
Unknown
If a police officer exhibits and we call this officer presents, if they exhibit that strength in control, they are less likely to be attacked. And I think that would be true for all areas of life. Right. Like, if you go to a dog park, traditionally, what dogs are the calmest dogs in the dog park? The big ones.

00;56;18;02 - 00;56;35;11
Unknown
The biggest dogs. Right. I had this, dog. He was, And I didn't breed this dog on purpose to make me some kind of weirdo or something, but this dog was a Grand Pyrenees and a pitbull mix, and we got him from the shelter. We did a DNA test. That's turned out what he was, and he looked like an incredible jacked up version of Scooby Doo, right?

00;56;35;11 - 00;56;55;16
Unknown
Like just enormous, all muscled up and everything. This dog was always the biggest dog in the dog park. And the coolest dog. I mean, like, cooler than a center seat on a cucumber, right? This dog, nothing got to him. Other dogs would bite him. Once I'm at the dog park and I look over him and he's kind of given a bit of a whimper, and I look at him and there's like, one of those Boston terriers, right?

00;56;55;16 - 00;57;16;03
Unknown
Like one of those little dogs. There's like, hanging from his jowl. Right. And he's like looking at me like, can you get this thing off of me right? And this dog is just so calm. And then what are the little dogs? They're yapping. They're the ones because they're they're weak. Right. They, they perceive themselves as weak and then they become scary.

00;57;16;05 - 00;57;35;16
Unknown
So that the little ones that the little man I've a and you know what that is I think that's why we call it the little man complex and not the little man. Because I know some men who are not tall in stature, who do not weigh a lot, and they are huge, powerful men. Right. So it's not about the physical size, it's about the belief inside.

00;57;35;16 - 00;57;59;23
Unknown
And that controlled power. What I'm hearing from you is that almost like the best defense is like training yourself to be prepared. Like kind of like right where I, why we push so much on the fitness pillar, why we push so much on emotional strength and dealing with your trauma and all these other things to get healed so that you're already in a position to be ready.

00;57;59;26 - 00;58;27;11
Unknown
And by being ready to defend if necessary, you're at least likely to get into a confrontation almost absolutely. Training in any kind of, self-defense. The there's an obvious advantage to everyone around you because you're a protector, which I think is pretty clear. The Bible, calls us to be protectors of many, many realms in our lives. But then also just the entire internal confidence that, builds inside of you is a strength.

00;58;27;14 - 00;58;52;12
Unknown
Right? And then that alone is an incredible defense, right? U.S. military is a perfect example, right? Nobody's planning on invading us anytime soon, right? Like the stuff we're building is ridiculous right there, fifteens. All of it. It's just absolutely ridiculous. Right? It's the best stance for peace in my in my experience should be the best, display of pacifism.

00;58;52;12 - 00;59;11;05
Unknown
Right. So it's very interesting that you bring that up. I love that you brought that up. Because when you think about this from the perspective of when is it okay? To your question to defend and who should we defend? I think about the statement it's best to stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Exactly. Preparation time is never wasted.

00;59;11;05 - 00;59;37;19
Unknown
Time. And what comes to mind is Switzerland. So when you think about Switzerland, as soon as you turn 18 years old, you get a military assault rifle and there's more gun ranges dotting the highway than anywhere else. What I learned is that you get a military assault roughly 18 years old, and they are the most trained marksman in the world, and they have the lowest crime rates.

00;59;37;22 - 00;59;59;15
Unknown
So the power is the fact that they're ready and that, you know, every single human being on the planet could be in a position where they're carrying a weapon in your neighborhood, in your community, you're much less likely to want to do something that's going to harm another individual. And also, Switzerland is neutral in war, but but they stand ready.

00;59;59;17 - 01;00;31;06
Unknown
Yeah, but they don't they don't side with anybody in wars, which is an interesting phenomenon because they, they were happy to hold the, the wealth that the Nazis extracted from those they murdered. But but stayed. But but we're neutral. But their banking system is very lucrative for them. So, Anyway. So. Yeah. So I love this conversation.

01;00;31;06 - 01;00;51;24
Unknown
So I think it's Christian. Maybe we can all probably all agree that we shouldn't be out waging war on people, right? Like, that's that's unnecessary violence is, you know, we can all agree on that easily. But the next question is, is like math. Question is when is it appropriate to defend yourself? And then that would tie itself into you know, what do you think about being a pacifist?

01;00;51;27 - 01;01;19;15
Unknown
And I would argue that it would be very, very difficult to actually be truly be a pacifist if you lived in a society like we do, where you actually have people protecting you. Right. I'm curious what you guys think about that. So, so the question would be when is it okay to defend yourself. And is it, is it really possible in our, in our country to say that you're a pacifist and you don't defend yourself in any way?

01;01;19;21 - 01;01;46;08
Unknown
Like how would you truly know that you are a pacifist. Yeah. So this this is a fascinating Christian ethics question. Well, we'll reframe it in a, in a better way than I just did. Yeah. So, so there's, there's a handful of questions here, first of all. And, and the real interesting, ethics question, is a guy named Richard Hayes is a methodist bishop who wrote a book on New Testament ethics.

01;01;46;11 - 01;02;16;00
Unknown
And the question he explores is, is it okay to do violence in defense of justice? Because for him, it is a foregone conclusion that it is never okay to defend yourself. The question is, is it acceptable to defend the weak using violence and I think he is. It's a it's a great book, but I think he fails to draw a distinction between violence and force.

01;02;16;03 - 01;02;36;29
Unknown
If if you come to attack me, and let's just presuppose that there's a scenario where I'm that coach John and I are are equal in a fight, let's just let's can you imagine? Okay, so so Coach Sean comes to harm me and I in the course of the fight, I'm able to get the better of him. And now I'm angry.

01;02;37;01 - 01;03;08;00
Unknown
So now I beat him to a pulp. That's violence. But if I use just enough force to take away his ability to harm me, then I have actually done him a kindness. Because in harming me, he is also harming himself. So. I like to imagine a world where I'm a pacifist. I just acknowledge that you can name 20 scenarios where I wouldn't be somebody comes in to attack my wife or my kids, you know, like I'm no longer pacifist in real life.

01;03;08;02 - 01;03;37;06
Unknown
So but I don't think that violence or force are normative, meaning they are only necessary temporarily in this broken world, the ultimate human experience that God has planned for us. In the end, there is no violence. I would agree with that. Yeah, I just I agree, yeah, I will lay with the land. And on that note, I have a question for you guys.

01;03;37;09 - 01;03;47;20
Unknown
To kind of wrap up, what is what is on your heart today? What's on your heart today?

01;03;47;22 - 01;04;17;01
Unknown
You know, particular verse, something that's going on, something that might speak life into somebody listening. You know, I'd like to jump in on that one right off the bat. You know, we're just coming off, Thanksgiving last week, and, my family had a disruption about seven years ago with, one of my in-laws. And, the relationships were just absolutely, destroyed, seven years ago.

01;04;17;04 - 01;04;51;29
Unknown
And, there's been a lot of conflict, in the family over the past seven years. And a very frequent prayer in our home at our dinner table, I would say probably on the frame of close to 3 to 4 times a week for the past seven years is for all of us to be able to sit at the same table and sit there in peace together and praise God, which is which was a big that was a big, audacious goal for us, because some of the parties in this, in this scenario are not, practicing believers.

01;04;52;06 - 01;05;13;26
Unknown
Right? And they haven't always showed tolerance towards that. So that was our prayer. Like, can we largess, please heal these relationships and allow us all to sit at the same table one day soon and just praise your name? And that literally happened for my family on Friday where we all came together. And I'm getting chills just thinking about it.

01;05;13;26 - 01;05;37;29
Unknown
But just my overwhelming feeling of gratitude towards the Lord of answering prayers. It's just incredible in all things are possible. And I remember praying that prayer when I when I remember it, like, you know, I had to come in to the family table and insert this new prayer. You guys know what I'm talking about, right? Because you have some prayers that you all say is like the same prayer all the time, but it's like, no, I'm going to add a new theme into the prayer here, and we're going to hit this thing.

01;05;38;05 - 01;05;54;21
Unknown
We're just going to keep hitting that this prayer over and over and over again. And I remember I got some glances the first time that prayer came out of my mouth. And people were kind of like, we'll see, right? We'll see. Like, that might be too big. And I just knew it wasn't too big for God and absolutely wasn't so, man, I'm I'm fine on a high.

01;05;54;21 - 01;06;19;18
Unknown
If you can't tell. Yeah. After last week. So, my Bible reading this morning was in Colossians two at the end of that chapter, there's this part where Paul says, and I'm going to put this into, the divvy, the David International Version, because I don't specifically. That's funny. I have a I have a J.W., the coach John Wood version two.

01;06;19;21 - 01;06;54;09
Unknown
And, so it's. It says, don't. So Paul quotes people saying do not handle, do not taste, do not touch. And he says this has this sounds wise with its denial of the flesh. Like it sounds wise, but it doesn't have any power to stand against sin. So he's addressing this lists in lists of rules that that sound very righteous.

01;06;54;12 - 01;07;11;17
Unknown
Well, I don't do that. I don't I don't do that, and I don't do that and I don't do that. Kind of the classic, you know, I don't, I don't smoke, I don't smoke, drink or chew or go with girls who do write, like that. That's what makes me a good person. And it's it's over against it.

01;07;11;24 - 01;07;44;10
Unknown
That whole ideology assumes that that Christianity is about behavior modification. Right. And if we can just come up with the right rules, then we can please God. As opposed to the Christian claim, which is that righteousness is a gift from God that that is granted to us when we exchange our sin for Jesus's righteousness and a bunch of rules don't have any any power to stand against real temptation.

01;07;44;13 - 01;08;05;13
Unknown
The power to stand against temptation is to no longer be tempted because we desire different things, and that is a transformation that comes only as a gift from God. And it's painfully slow, right? How our desires change over time. But we can look back 5 or 10 years in the past and go, I don't desire those sinful things anymore.

01;08;05;16 - 01;08;32;17
Unknown
And we can look ahead ten years and go, if we can believe that God can restore a family, then we can believe that God can take away these sinful desires in my heart. Absolutely. And and that he can sanctify me even more as he already has. That's what I was thinking about this morning. Yeah. So for me, I've been thinking about the gift of gratitude and the root word of that being attitude.

01;08;32;19 - 01;09;07;25
Unknown
And when the disposition is that of gratitude, it does change your attitude, which inevitably changes your altitude. And this has been really heavy on my heart because my relationship to pain has been changing, centered around that word, gratitude. Meaning I'm grateful when pain shows up. An example would be going to the gym, working out. It hurts. You're ripping out, you're doing your last set, and you're almost a failure.

01;09;07;25 - 01;09;40;25
Unknown
And it's like, I don't know if I can get this weight. My, my my body's aching, I don't know. And then boom. But the byproduct of that is strength, a change in your physical stature and your physique. And I believe in life. God shapes us in the very same manner that when we may go through pain and relationships, you know, even with the holidays coming up and you may be thinking about, a dinner that you want to avoid because, you know, there's a certain family member that's going to be there or a relationship you don't want to encounter at the Christmas party or whatever.

01;09;40;27 - 01;10;05;20
Unknown
If if you can embrace the pain, then it can do something transformative in you. So for me, I've been looking at those opportunities where there is pain in my life and asking questions around that, like, man, God, what are you shaping in me right now? Like, what are you refining in me? And I've been embracing that so that I can fully walk into my purpose and express that in a way that glorifies God.

01;10;05;22 - 01;10;28;21
Unknown
So the pain now can literally become the platform. So that's what's been on my heart. Pain is the path. Pain is the path. Comfort is the enemy. If you could have dinner with any one person in the world, that's not your wife or you related to, who would you have dinner with besides Christ? Because I know we'd all choose Jesus so it can be a historical figure.

01;10;28;23 - 01;10;53;15
Unknown
Yeah. And why the. Why would you want to have dinner with them? I got it. So somebody that past you can choose. You knock em, you knock from the Bible. Why? Because I can't recall another instance when someone was just literally raptured by God. Because they were so pleasing to God. I would want to sit down and have dinner with him to know what was the disposition of your heart?

01;10;53;17 - 01;11;11;23
Unknown
What were you doing every day? What was your relationship like with Christ? What did you do in regards to the way you engage with Christ in prayer? And I would want to learn. So he's like one of my top, top five that I want to meet too soon as I get to heaven because of the way that God favored him.

01;11;11;23 - 01;11;36;06
Unknown
So I'm really intrigued by Enoch in the Bible, man, if we're going to stay in the, the Bible, he might have to go, King David all day long. I mean, just like, you know, man, after God's own heart, I mean, incredibly vulnerable, like, maybe historically, the most vulnerable man ever to walk the earth. And then absolutely, absolutely, 100% man.

01;11;36;06 - 01;12;02;07
Unknown
Right? Like, oh, like legit warrior king. Right. The OG original. So yeah, I think, King David absolutely. On the biblical for sure. It's awesome to have somebody in the Bible. No you don't. Okay. No. Interesting take for a pastor. Yeah. He's like already know all those guys. You know, that's a yeah, a lot of time I think, Martin Luther King Jr.

01;12;02;09 - 01;12;34;15
Unknown
Nice. Good choice. The I would I'm fascinated by his, conviction. It would have made a lot more sense to try to lead, violent resistance. But he was so shaped by his convictions and the way of Jesus and direct nonviolent resistance that it made it made his dream compelling. And he influenced people on both sides of a variety of divides to imagine a better future.

01;12;34;22 - 01;12;51;01
Unknown
Out of curiosity, who had your your biblical person be? Definitely not King David. That guy's a jerk. Oh wow. I would not want to hang out with. I'm clipping that. All right. That's going to be a real. Yeah. No. Selfish. Everybody loves him, but he can love anybody. Except God he did love how about that one.

01;12;51;03 - 01;13;13;06
Unknown
I said it first. Yeah. They're real and they're real. You're take. Are you being funny. No I really I think I think David was a stinker. Yeah. Yeah. And I think he was weak in his old age. He didn't he didn't stand up to he didn't stand up to his sons. And he didn't he didn't have he didn't teach Solomon about justice.

01;13;13;06 - 01;13;38;01
Unknown
Adonijah was was was power hungry. Absalom and Amnon were both. Yeah. Not. And I'm not a big fan. I'm a big fan that he was repentant. Yeah. And I'm a big fan. That he was a, a man of deep faith in a worshiper of God. But, as far as dinner company, I'm curious that you're so,

01;13;38;04 - 01;14;03;07
Unknown
So, interested in defining him by his children. I'm not defining you by. I'm defining him by his inability to stand up to them. All right? Yeah, I. I find that weak. Okay. Strong words. I bet she's. And have word for you and heaven for you. I think we know. Who do we want to finish the conversation about who you want to box right now, right.

01;14;03;09 - 01;14;22;22
Unknown
Exactly. Yeah. Well, the Bible says in his old age he cannot get heat. And we all know what that means. I love it. I'm gonna throw one more on top. If my non-biblical person would absolutely be, Wyatt Earp. Absolutely be Wyatt Earp. Man of the Old West. Also, total mixed bag, a mixed bag of a man, you know.

01;14;22;22 - 01;14;43;02
Unknown
Was he a good guy? Was he a bad guy? You know, a lot of people don't know the history around him, but, you know, we almost went into another civil war, based on his actions in and around the cowboy gang, in tombstone. And, there's a lot of I'm super curious about what really happened there, because, you know, you can read the newspapers.

01;14;43;02 - 01;15;00;08
Unknown
I mean, during his lifetime, he was considered a villain. You know, it wasn't till, he was in his older age and he was, close to death. They started kind of turning the tide on that. So I'd be fascinating to speak to Wyatt Earp. I would be fascinated to speak to him. So, so since we're going with non-biblical character.

01;15;00;08 - 01;15;21;08
Unknown
Yeah. I have another one as well. All right. What he got. So Jonathan Edwards Jonathan Edwards lived in the 1700s. He had 11 children. And this is your mirror. And I think that's the minimum requirement. That's the minimum requirement. You gotta have you have to be plant based and plant based. I don't know if he was plant based, but he was definitely he is a pastor.

01;15;21;08 - 01;15;51;03
Unknown
So there's kind of a biblical theme there. And he was really, really prevalent in the great revival, I believe, was the awakening during that time. Is that correct? Professor David? So what he would do is have regular meetings with his family and regular times of prayer on a weekly basis. And when you study his genealogy and you look at all of his children, all of them went out and did incredible things that added to the the blueprint of our nation today.

01;15;51;05 - 01;16;17;27
Unknown
So judges, couple of vice presidents, presidents of universities, business owners, high level leaders, doctors like crushed it in regards to the imprint that he left on his children and how they pass that along. So the curiosity in me says, man, what did you do during those times in terms of how you poured into your children to make such an impact on so many other generations?

01;16;17;27 - 01;16;37;26
Unknown
So, for example, Larry Bird, part of his family genealogy, school. Yeah. So I'm really curious about that. And that's who I would. That's why I want to sit down, have a conversation with, have dinner with, like, hey, what was your intention and what specifically did you do during those moments? And how did you make sure that it stuck with them to carry that on past your years?

01;16;37;28 - 01;16;53;21
Unknown
Love it. Yeah, yeah. Then I get to choose a Bible character. Yay! Go for it. And I think you're I think you're. Yeah, we, we know about a character. You don't? Yeah, we know who you don't want to have dinner. Where? Hey, I didn't bring up that. I don't want to. You, David. You you you brought it up.

01;16;53;23 - 01;17;18;10
Unknown
No, you brought that up. That's not how I remember it. That's what matters. Mine would be like to take my. Would you, like, roll the tape? Mine would be Lazarus. All right. Lazarus. Because I think that he had, a fascinating, Jerusalem centric view of the ministry of Jesus, as opposed to the other disciples who had a Galilean view.

01;17;18;12 - 01;17;39;09
Unknown
Do you believe he was there at the crucifixion? Absolutely believe. Was, don't don't get me in trouble. No. Okay. All right. I believe that Lazarus was there. The crucifixion. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I just heard some different stories on that. Yeah. My most unpopular view of the Bible is coming into the conversation. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Jackie. You're welcome.

01;17;39;12 - 01;18;01;02
Unknown
Thank. Do the hard thing, Pastor David. We'll leave that one for for another. We'll we'll leave them hanging on. What my most my weird viewers. Yeah. So I've got a question for you guys. So when you think about the community, anything about the men, maybe even women who will be watching this podcast, there was one thing that you would want them to walk away with.

01;18;01;02 - 01;18;23;26
Unknown
What would it be? Was one thing that you would want them to walk away with that would leave them edified, encouraged, inspired? Give some level of revelation or the ability to see their life or the challenges that they're going through from a different perspective. What's one thing that you would want people to walk away from this experience with?

01;18;23;29 - 01;18;53;24
Unknown
I'd have to say the one thing I'd want people to know about rock, or what I brought from rock, would be you are capable of more, more and everything in your faith. I mean, we were talking about that early about earlier, about the fruits of the spirit, like, in your finances, your fitness, your relationships. I mean, this is a common theme that many people in this community have had where they've rated their marriage before entering this community.

01;18;53;24 - 01;19;22;18
Unknown
And you had many men like myself rated my marriage like a seven or an eight. And then you get here and you find out that, oh, no, the scale actually goes to 20. And now when my marriage is sitting at like an 18 or 19, to just wonder, like what else is possible? Like, because I'm in a spot now where my eyes have been opened to the possibilities and just so many areas, there's just so much more room for improvement, for potential.

01;19;22;18 - 01;19;46;17
Unknown
It's just it's it's limitless. And that is probably the most exciting thing about this community. And then just see it in other men right there. See, you know, we talk a lot about sharing our wins, and it's not about bragging or boasting or anything. It's like, hey, look, this is possible. And it wasn't possible before, but with God and with these men around me, anything is possible.

01;19;46;17 - 01;20;13;01
Unknown
And it's just so inspiring. That's awesome. To the guys who have come through a Rise of Kings three day experience. Any time I meet one, I'm just instantly like, you're a top 1% dude because you did all those things. If you weren't when you started, you were when you finished a 1%. Dude, I just wish they knew, like how impressed I am and in awe of any, any dude who comes and does the things that we do here.

01;20;13;03 - 01;20;35;28
Unknown
Yeah. Thank you so much for tuning in with us here on the Rise Up Kings podcast. As you know, I'm Coach Mondo, your host. And man, what a powerful time we had today. Coach John, pastor David, incredible men, dangerous men, not only in the physical, but spiritually doing damage to the kingdom of darkness for the good of those of us who are still on this earth and for the kingdom of heaven.

01;20;36;00 - 01;20;53;11
Unknown
Man, we talked about Jesus. Is he a conservative or is he liberal? You decide. We talked about the difference between a man and a weak man. Which one are you? Which one are you going to level up to be? And then we talked about when it's appropriate to use violence. So I want you to think about these things.

01;20;53;11 - 01;21;12;00
Unknown
But there's one key takeaway, one key thing that I want you to ponder until our next episode. And that is what we talked about in John 1027. My sheep hear my voice. They know me and they follow me. Have you been hearing God's voice because he's speaking? The real question is, are you listening?