EPR Live: Anchored in Purpose and Driven by Vision with Kelley Samuels

Welcome back to Environmental Professionals Radio, Connecting the Environmental Professionals Community Through Conversation, with your hosts Laura Thorne and Nic Frederick! 

On today’s episode, we’re LIVE from Hutchinson Island at the FAEP Conference! In this episode, we’re joined by Kelley Samuels, Senior Ecologist and Certified Project Manager at AECOM. Kelley shares her insights from over 25 years of experience in environmental permitting, impact assessment, and ecological work across the Southeast. We dive into the complexities of wetland work, the challenges of managing large, interdisciplinary teams, and discuss this year's conference theme: "Anchored in Purpose, Driven by Vision." Plus, we swap some #FieldNotes from our time in the field.

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This podcast is produced by the National Association of Environmental Professions (NAEP). Check out all the NAEP has to offer at NAEP.org.

Connect with Kelley Samuels at https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelley-samuels-pws-635b98b/

Guest Bio:
Kelley Samuels is a Senior Ecologist and an AECOM Certified Project Manager based in Orlando, Florida. Kelley has 25 years of experience as an environmental impact assessment and permitting specialist. Her expertise includes ecological assessments of flora and fauna, primarily in the southeast, with a specific focus on wetlands and wildlife as they relate to linear corridor analyses, environmental permitting, due diligence evaluation, and environmental monitoring. 

Music Credits
Intro: Givin Me Eyes by Grace Mesa
Outro: Never Ending Soul Groove by Mattijs Muller

Transcript

Hello and welcome to EPR with your favorite environmental enthusiasts Nic and Laura. On today's episode, we are gonna give you EPR live from Stuart, Florida at the Florida Association of Environmental Professionals annual conference.

We had a wonderful time, uh, and it was really fun to do. We were really happy to be there again and it was a great show. We're really excited for you to see it, but as with all good things live, our recording actually is gonna start uh a little bit differently than how we expected.

It's gonna be mid-question, but I am asking Laura a question about what a no see em is, and I've never heard the phrase before, uh, but apparently it's very Floridian, so you're gonna start with hearing her answer to that question.

So just wanted to give you a little bit of preamble before we get started. So here we go, hit that music.

Yeah, what, what is it? It sounds terrifying. It's really a little tiny vampire mosquito, but, no thank you. You know, I think that's the technical term, vampire mosquito.

OK, so beautiful beaches, but from a distance. OK, all right. Yes, so there are no seams because you feel the pinches and then the next day you're like, why am I colored little pink dots? What is this? I love it.

All right, well, um, should we get started? Yeah, everybody ready for the interview? You're ready to learn more about Kelley Samuels? Yeah, yes, yes, Kelley, all right.

Well, welcome to EPR. We do have Kelley Samuels with us. She is a senior ecologist and certified project manager at AECO with over 25 years of experience in environmental permitting, impact assessment, and ecological work around the Southeast. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Sweet. Uh, so we are in Hutchinson Island. It is beautiful despite the fact that we are also being attacked by invisible objects. That's great. Um, we're on the last day of the conference. What have been some highlights. Of like a conference so far.

Sure, sure. So driving over here was fun. I've never actually been to Hutchinson Island before, even though I've been in Florida for 30 years. So that was a great start.

Shout out to TCC for arranging this fantastic venue for all of us to enjoy and have great talks. The content's been amazing, and I guess the biggest highlight for me was I was one of the judges for the student poster, and I was very pleased with the participation. The students did an amazing job, so.

They did, they did, and I met some of the students and they rock. They're so awesome. Yeah, that's really cool.

So I mean, how long have you been a member of FAEP. We don't want to say she's stumped already. We already said, yeah, a long time. We said 25 years earlier, so yeah, we'll just say a long time.

So what do you like about it? Why, what keeps you coming back?

I love the engagement, the community around the subject matter. It's great to see everybody, to, you know, make lasting relationships, both from the regulatory side and from your peer groups, and this is an important part of being able to do that, right?

Yeah, and I mean, this group can't get them to stop talking. But that's awesome. That means there's a very solid community here.

Yeah, that's you. Back to me already. Yeah, wow.

So the theme of this conference is anchored in purpose and driven by vision. What does that theme mean to you? How does that translate into your work?

Yeah, so I guess the nautical theme doesn't escape, right? We're in the, we're in the nautical area. We're in the coastal environment, so true roots there, right?

Um, but for me it's like being grounded in sound decision making and being motivated, right? So when I started this career, I was just a soils nerd and and evolved, you know, through the ranks and read books about habitat conservation planning and what it meant, and that has really taken on a whole new level in Florida.

You know, when I very first started consulting, conservation banks weren't a thing in Florida, and uh it's now an important part of, you know, conservation corridor in Florida, and it's fun to see that evolve.

Yeah, part of it. And like, so like that, seeing that evolution of those conservation banks, like what is, where are we now with them? Are we getting to a point where there's not enough, where before you didn't have any, then you had some, then you had too many. Are we at not enough yet, or

I don't think so. I mean, I'm sure a mitigation banker would tell you something different, but Can you have too many? I don't know.

Well, we run out of space eventually, right? That's the worry, right? But it's better than having development.

Yes, I would totally agree.

Yeah, so talk to us about your job. What do you do? What are some of your favorite projects you're working on right now?

Oh, well, I'm a wet and scientist, protected species practitioner, also do NEPA, right? I know what drives our profession. Um, yeah, yeah.

So I managed the Southeast regions, um, environmental planning and permitting group with AECO. We have staff, you know, about 60 professionals from North Carolina, Tennessee, down into Florida.

Very cool.

Yeah, so how do you manage all of that work?

Well, I have really strong team leads. So there's a hierarchy, right? They're very talented people, and we all work together as a team, yes.

And then so when you run into challenges, cause I know there are challenges, permitting, yeah, right, uh, share with us some wisdom about getting through a challenging permit.

You have to just remain steadfast, right? And continue to like be positive about the situation and solution oriented. I think that is always, you know, been helpful.

And yeah, are you the kind of person when, when you get like a challenge like that with work, are you dive in and fix this? Are you like launch the nuclear codes? Like how do you, how do you, how do you handle like challenges when you get them?

Because we all have clients. All those clients are challenging sometimes. So what would you give advice to people who are just experiencing that maybe for like the first time? How do they? that challenge.

You're not alone, right? Like brainstorming, because no response is ever going to be the same, right? Like, that's part of why I love this profession is because no project is ever the same.

Even though we might do some similar things for every project, every project is kind of its own ecosystem, right? And it's just, so brainstorming with other people is very helpful to coming up with a solution.

Right. Favorite projects. Did you mention favorite projects?

Oh, well, we just finished a very large coral relocation for the Coast Guard down in Key West, which is very complex permitting project, requiring a lot of consultations and uh long lead times on those permits.

And um, yeah, what are some of those direct challenges? How do you get permits for coral?

With a lot of patience, is that what you're right, right, exactly.

Well, you know, it's very exciting when you start a project, right, to lay out this plan and to spend a lot of time creating this plan, but really this plan is fluid, and it's, it's its own thing, and you have to kind of go back to it all the time.

Because as you collect data and you You know, it changes how you're approaching things, right?

So when we very first started that project, we didn't, we had to get in the water, right? We didn't, we didn't even have a benthic survey that was up to date.

So we didn't know what we were dealing with, what species, what permits were required. So we just start at the beginning.

And then how do you actually do it? How do you actually, you're like, OK, so we're going to move the coral. How do you, uh,

Well, first you find out what corals are there, right, right. And then that determines like what your permitting pathway is, right? Then you ask permission and then you ask for a lot of different permissions from a lot of different agencies, do you mind if we move you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you get in the water with a strong group of people that know what they do and but you basically ship it out.

Wow. And bring them up. We were lucky. It took a while. We ended up moving like 1700 corals.

Wow. Yeah, it was a lot. We had a lot of nursery partners. We did a lot of rescue. And then we relocated and created two reefs off Fort Zach Park.

That's very cool. That's fascinating. OK, how often do you get to go out there and check them?

Yeah, OK, well, the permit requirements that you monitor for a year, but yeah, hopefully their habitat a year, only a year, only a year.

Yeah wow, yeah, wow, I know.

So do you like take your, you take a trip to Key, the Key West, you said? Right, yeah, so then you just go and like would you go look?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not, yeah, it's not bad. Yeah, I've been to some tough places. I've been to some middle of nowheres that aren't fun, uh, so that's great.

But now you have to go back just to check on them. Like I would, I would be like, oh, I have to go to Key West. I'm so sorry, you know.

Well, now I've got the coordinates, so that's what I mean you can talk to me. Yeah, OK, all right.

That's wild.

But yeah, I mean, like, you also work extensively with wetlands and protected species, and in Florida, that's like another really important thing. It's like one of the most unique states in terms of biodiversity in the country.

So, like, I know, like, I worked at McDill Air Force Base, and they have 15 protected birds on land, and then manatees in the water, and so they're like, well, we can't build anything. So it's a challenge. It's a unique challenge. So how do you handle and deal with that working in this state?

I mean, every single project has these issues, right? Like you can't do anything in Florida without having them.

So, you know, coming up with a plan early and then revisiting it, kind of like, you know, you're collecting data, you're informing it, changing, you gotta be flexible and pivot, depending upon what's thrown at you at any given point in time.

And do you ever have, like, have you actually had a project where it didn't have issues with endangered species, because I'm trying to think, I've never had that in Florida myself. Like I've always had something.

Yeah, yeah. No, I thought I had a really clean project. It was a new substation. And then there was a tower, a cell tower on it, and eagles came in and I was like, we didn't have anything until they came back and decided to nest, build a nest on the cell tower.

That's incredible.

Oh, yeah.

And I don't know. Did you ever run into people, like, one of the great parts about this industry is like you talk to people who don't know anything about it all the time. Like if you're working with the military, if you're working with other clients, they look to you for advice.

And then like you get to know people over time and they're like, OK, what's the approach to like someone who's starting, whose starting point is, uh, another endangered bird. Are you kidding me? How do you navigate that? Because it's, you have to do it. But you have a lot of like, you know, challenges with that. Right?

It's hard. I mean, you basically start from scratch every time you have a conversation, right?

But I mean, most people understand it in Florida now. I mean, 30 years ago, that was not the case. They felt like they, you know, you were wrong, you know, what do you mean wetlands are protected, you know, like you're, that's a land grab, you know.

But nowadays, I think it's clients expect it.

OK, yeah.

And so I guess you have this large team now and they have lots of different backgrounds and lots of diversity. When you have these permitting issues come up, when you have difficult clients come up, how do you handle like getting your team through all that because it's not just you anymore doing it.

You're telling people how to do it or giving them advice, which is a very different job than when you start, you know, that transition is really hard.

And sometimes you, you know, we're in the field all the time and then we're not. And I don't know if you ever had to like just kind of pull back and now you're like, oh, I go in the field once a year instead of every all summer.

Yeah, no, for sure, that requires your full attention, right? And it's hard to like multitask and do anything well, even though we like to think that we can, it's hard.

So, so like, was that transition for you difficult, like getting out of the field?

I rely so much on my team. Like I have such great people that I feel very confident about, so I feel very grateful for that team. If I didn't have that to bolster, it would be. Very difficult.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I got you, yeah, and we keep saying 25 years. I don't know why I keep doing that to you, but you've been in the field for that long. What keeps you grounded?

Cause I mean, like you said, you've seen a lot of change even with mitigation banking. Is it a humbling experience to be

Yeah, I can't believe I'm still here and doing this. I feel so grateful that we, you know, have this profession available.

I didn't even know what consulting was in college. And nowadays, I think it's more, you know, people know more about it. But I mean. Get started.

How did you even decide this is what you want to do?

So I needed to have an internship to graduate, and I was in school in Pennsylvania, and I was an agronomy major and my major professor was like, Why don't you go to Florida? They do, they need delineators. And I was like, What's that?

And uh I got an internship and then they hired me and I stayed, never left.

So were you like your first delineation when you're like, this will be a breeze and then you came back and it looked like you were in war and when I would go home, my parents were like, what did they do to you?

I mean, I would have, you know, poison ivy and scratches and ticks and all the things and noseums apparently.

Yeah.

Oh, and don't forget Florida sun.

I remember coming home from the field in Florida. You just pass out.

Yeah, best coma ever.

Yes, for sure.

You know, it's funny, like I, the worst sunburn I ever got, I was 18 and I was like, oh, I don't need sunscreen. I have a shirt on. Humongous mistake because there's, yeah, other parts of my body were, yeah, it was bad. It was bad. I can still feel it. It's, uh, skin cancer. It's, yeah.

Well, we have a generational panel coming up later today. And so just as a preview for that, what you're hiring, you know, you say your team is so awesome, and I assume some of them are more junior.

Yeah.

How do you vet and pick the right people for your team, and how do you bring them on board so that they know what to do and, yeah, and they become part of this awesome team that actually gels

training. It is a big deal, right? And um, so we, we try to, with some of the younger teams, we try to, we give them a choice of like, which regulation do you want to study?

And they're going to own that regulation, because every Monday morning during our team meetings, one of them will stand up and give a 15 minute presentation.

We do like a Q&A back and forth. And then sometimes that. Results in the need to do a full hour like lunch and learn type situation, but it kind of helps engage, you know, it's important for them to understand the regulations.

I mean, they're there, that's how this profession came about and so it's important for them to understand that and It's good for everybody to practice presenting too, especially to people who know more than you, you know, that's always, well, the local chapters in FAP too also do webinars and, you know, trainings and things like that, which also help, yeah, um, which is great.

But for the students here, like, what are you literally looking for when you're interviewing and hiring?

Wow, there are so many amazing students nowadays. I mean, they come out with over 4.0 GPA, all these awards and scholarships and do all. All these conferences and posters and are very talented.

So it's hard. It's really hard to pick.

When I hired my first student, it was because I was really involved in the Central Florida Association of Environmental Professionals who had a student chapter at UCF. So you got to know the students.

So if, if there is a student chapter, I would say participate in that and get to know professionals. It's really helpful.

Yeah, yeah, is that can solve some of the, are you just good at talking? In this one moment or are you good all the way through?

Hiring is so hard and it's like, uh, you want to pick right because if you don't, you have to do it again and we're wasting everyone's time for sure.

Yeah.

So now we're at the point of the show where we love to ask field stories. I know it's coming, and, uh, this is our field notes segment.

Some of you already shared field stories with us earlier. Yes, and thank you if you're one of those persons.

Yeah, wait, what? I'm thanking them if they, they gave us a field story already.

Yeah, it's amazing, um, so. Yeah, so we, we do encourage listeners to share their stories with us. We will put them on the show, and that is super fun.

But Kelley, uh, let's see, wetlands work and handling protected species like gopher tortoises. If you tell me you have to have some, I'm just gonna kick you off the stage.

Oh no, I have a lot of field stories.

Yeah, I mean, a war story. Do you have one where you came back and you were like, I'm never going in the field again because of how much blood I lost, you know, like that's.

No, that's good. OK. All right, so what do you have for us?

I feel like I'm telling on myself, but I feel like it was this, this particular story is relevant just because we are in a drought and yeah, you know, it's just a reminder that you can start fires with the vehicle right when you're in the woods. It might have happened.

What, what happened? So what did you do?

So I was using a 4 wheel drive utility vehicle in a pine plantation. So doing go for tortoise, you know, burrows.

So I was GPSing the locations and I'm up at a borrow and I'm looking back to where I just came from. Like, is that fire? Like where, what, where did that fire come from?

And then I'm tracking it and then I see my vehicle is also on fire.

Oh my God, I was like, Oh, it's me. I'm the one who did this. I'm on fire. It was terrible.

So I quickly used all the water that I had to try to put out the vehicle, but it had already, you know, pine needles go pretty fast.

And I watched it get into the canopy. I was like, I got to get out of here. Oh my God, that's called 911. It was terrifying.

Yeah.

What happened?

So it just caught on fire. It was, it was a perfect storm, right? Like the barometric pressure dropped, the winds picked up, and I was there.

Wow, I remember that fear driving through some really tall grasses.

Yes, and you're like, oh, please do not. That's, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That's wild.

Lucky no one got hurt and I called the fire department and the division of Forestry came and put it out.

The worst part of the story is that there was a bunch of tires that burned. I feel bad about that. But it was inadvertent release. I didn't do it.

Yeah, no, of course, of course.

That's wild. OK, I've never, never heard that. That's a good one.

Yeah, that's, that's haunting.

So yeah, so when you're not in the field, we love to ask people about what they do for fun. So besides coming to FAP, obviously, what else do you do? What else do you like to do of ecology?

I love to hike, so I do section hikes of the AT, and I just, I love the mountains.

I know I live in Florida.

I was like, you could see me looking at you. I was like, uh, OK.

But it's fun.

The AT. How much have you done? The Appalachian Trail?

Uh, I don't, probably like 40 miles.

OK, I mean that's 40 more than me.

Yeah, I just started a couple years ago, that's cool, but it's fun. It's a nice hobby.

Yeah. Multi-days or day hikes?

Multi-days or day hikes? Uh, multi-days, yeah, but just like 3 or 4 days at a time, and then I have to come back to work and then I go back.

So you come back to work, you don't shower, you just show up, right?

Yeah, you're just like, hey, what's up guys?

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Got everything in my backpack, yeah.

Yeah, have any good hiking stories?

I hiked with a group of women for a while, and, uh, I had a, uh, a soil like knife, if you will, in my pack.

And there was a weird gentleman kind of hanging around us. And they were like, Kelley, get your knife out there and go.

I'm like, what do you want me to do? Knife the guy with the soil probe. That's fine.

And so then you did, and then so you both, you started a fire and killed somebody.

No, I'm kidding.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, that's wild.

Yeah, that's not fun.

It's kind of a, like the first time you go hiking and you're spending the night outside and you're, you're like, oh, it's like loud here and I'm by myself, but I have my soil knife. I'm good.

Did I, did I make a mistake, you know, but that's crazy.

Like, I don't know, like.

Some of the stuff we see sometimes with like preparedness, like when you send people out in the field for the first time, I remember telling someone like, hey, we're doing a wetland delineation.

We have to, you know, you have to wear boots, you have to have long pants that are pretty thick to handle the brambles, and you need like a, you know, just cover yourself, right?

And the, the, the person showed up in like tank top, white shorts, white sneakers, and I was like, you got to go home. Like. I've already lost you. You are, uh, this is like a salt marsh. OK, so you, yeah.

Oh, that's as good as our intern that showed up in high heels.

But I can't, that's funny.

Uh, yeah, yeah, high heels is bad. I've seen that. I've seen that, but like, um, have you ever had any challenges with getting team members up to speed on what being in the field means?

No, we usually, we spend a lot of time telling people and preparing them.

Now there's all kinds of safety training and things like that. Um, I didn't have benefits too when I started, but yeah, nowadays it's people show up pretty well prepared.

What do you think is the biggest difference?

Now from 20 years ago, safety, it's a big deal. Um, it's, it's talked about way more now than it was then.

That's true for sure.

I feel like when you send like two people in the field and like as a requirement, that was not always a requirement and you're like.

That was a requirement 15 years ago when I was working.

And yeah, I even worked with somebody who was like, I don't need you to go in the field. I can do this by myself.

I'm like, I'm sure you can, but this is in a desert and you're just, just off the road, and when you step down, no one can see you, which means if you pass out, you're gone.

But she was, she's been in the field for a long time. She's like, I've never had a problem.

I'm like, that's why I'm worried, right? That worry is valid statistically, statistically it's coming, yeah.

But yeah, yeah, well, we always ask our guests at the end. I don't think we prepped you for this, but is there something you would like to talk about?

Anything that is a personal philosophy or quote, anything that you would like to share with the community members here?

I have no idea. A quote. Favorite book. Something we did tell her we'd put her on the spot.

Oh, my favorite. Well, everyone loves Carl Hiaasen books. How can you go wrong?

There you go. There you go. That's so Florida, right?

And if people do want to get in touch with you, if there's a way of people. Want to reach out and ask you questions or follow-ups. What's the best way for them to do that?

Absolutely. Do you want me to?

Yeah, yeah.

So my email address is my name, Kelley.Samuels@aEcom.com. My first name is two E's and two L's.

Perfect.

All right, well, thank you so much, Kelley. It's been great.

Thank you.

All right. There we go. Thank you. Thank you, FAP for hosting us.

Yeah, thanks.

Don't forget to check us out each and every Friday. And while you're there, subscribe, rate, and review. Boom.

Thanks, everybody. Bye, bye.