EPISODE 038 | Amplifying Your Voice With a Podcast with Courtney Elmer

Have you ever wondered how your favorite podcasts came to be? Or perhaps you’re thinking about starting a podcast yourself?

When I first attempted to launch a podcast, I had no idea what I was doing. I think I recorded a whopping total of two episodes before stepping away from the microphone and focusing on other parts of my business. Fast forward to October of 2020, and this time I approached podcast launch through an entirely different lens. I knew I needed to be more strategic with my time and energy. I hired John, my podcast editor,  so I could stay in my zone of genius while having confidence that the quality of my podcast wouldn’t waver. I approached the whole project as more of a business decision rather than a hobby.

My guest today, Courtney Elmer, is one of the go-to authorities in podcasting. She’s helped thousands of entrepreneurs and business owners take the sometimes rocky, sometimes painful process of starting a podcast and make it as stress-free as possible while setting you up for long-term success. Today we’re doing a deep dive into the art of podcasting and pulling back the curtain on how Courtney runs a globally ranked podcast with minimal effort.

BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU’LL DISCOVER: 

• How a podcast can bridge the gap between you and your ideal client.
• Who should start a podcast (and who shouldn’t)?
• The secret to preventing podcaster burnout.
• How to leverage your podcast and turn listeners into customers.

Get Courtney’s Guide “The Five Things You Need to Know Before Starting a Podcast” here!

Click Here to Snag Courtney’s Podcast Guest Pitch Template!

If this episode has inspired you to share your own unique perspective with the world through a podcast, I would love it if you’d leave a review and share your thoughts with me.  And while you've got your phone out, make sure to follow me on Instagram @OTsGoneRogue 

Check out Courtney on Instagram @TheCourtneyElmer and The Systems Made Simple Podcast wherever you get your podcasts!

Transcript

Melissa LaPointe 00:06

You're listening to the OTs Gone Rogue podcast, where we inspire therapists to think outside the box and do things differently. I'm your host, Melissa LaPointe. My passion is in helping ot entrepreneurs have a bigger impact on the world while building a life they love and doing transformative work that lights them up. On each episode of the show, I'm going to share tools and tricks to help you flex your entrepreneurial muscles and grow your business from the inside out. I want to see more OTS step up as visionary leaders, change-makers, and influential CEOs. So let's get started.

Melissa LaPointe 00:47

Hey, everyone, welcome back to another episode of the OTs Gone Rogue podcast. We're going to start things off today with a story. More specifically, I'm going to share the origin story of my podcast. I'm not sure if I mentioned this before or not. But this was actually my second podcast attempt. My first one was on a bit of a whim. It was way back in February or March 2017. I believe I bought a microphone. I don't think it was a very good microphone, and basically hit record on my laptop and started talking. So when I published my first episode, it was through the strong beginnings podcast, I can't remember if I had a tagline, I should go back and see if I can find this. So I recorded and I published it on SoundCloud. And I shared it with family and friends. I don't think I shared it with my professional network, I think I was still trying to build up courage, which is so funny, because now I would much rather put stuff out to my professional network and then to share it with family and friends. But I shared with family and friends by donation so they could sponsor an episode. So essentially, they were contributing to the cause and helping me to cover the costs of publishing. So I was really keen and spontaneous. And very, very far from being strategic with it. I don't even think I had a website at this point. Or maybe that was after I had that super expensive website that almost caused me a midlife crisis. And my website was down and I was transitioning it over anyhow, another story for another day. But that might have been when I was moving from my HTML fancy shmancy website over to a WordPress site. So I had to pay to get all the content switched over. That might have been what was happening then. So anyhow, I certainly did not have a plan in place. It was all very spontaneous. It was just something that was on my bucket list. And I really wanted to move forward on it wasn't the right time at all. And if I remember correctly, I've recorded two episodes before hanging up my microphone and rethinking my actions. So fast forward to October 2020. It may have actually been September 2020, when I first reached out to my podcast editor started recording in October 2020. So the very first episode that I recorded and he edited for me, I ended up scrapping it and not using it and decided to try again and then figuring out now the podcasts name pretty excited once we got that sorted, and then the cover art. So I talk all about that and one of my earlier episodes, but this time round, you know, again, I had a lot of stories and a lot of experiences that I wanted to share with the world. So I still didn't feel like I quite knew what I was doing. But I knew I knew a lot more than I did in 2017. And in all honesty, I needed to build a stronger platform for getting my work out there. And a podcast sounded so much more appealing than a blog or a YouTube channel. I had already tried blogging that was going nowhere quickly talk about potential for disaster. My first blog it took me like two bottles of wine to write in two weeks. That's the ongoing joke. I was going to become an alcoholic if I continue blogging because I was getting so anxious about it. And a YouTube channel that sounded awful. So podcasting Alright, that sounded pretty good. I was still flying by the seat of my pants so to speak. But I knew a bit more at that point about audio quality, about Rip cording about editing or rather, I knew I needed to outsource editing, and about launching and about production in general. So I had more of the pieces put together. So this time Yes, I was definitely more strategic in how my podcast tied into my marketing and my business as a whole.

Melissa LaPointe 05:20

Or so I thought

Melissa LaPointe 05:23

you don't know what you don't know. And in hindsight, I really had no idea about launching a podcast or more importantly, about leveraging a podcast and building solid systems for managing the moving parts. We have made leaps and bounds I'm really excited about the progress we're making. But this all became pretty obvious to me after connecting with today's guest and researching her work in preparation for our interview, Courtney Elmer is the founder and CEO of the effortless life, a company on a mission to help online business owners and thought leaders get the right systems structure and support in place within their business so they can spend more time in their zone of genius. She is a corporate escapee. She's a cancer survivor. And she's host of the globally ranked podcast systems Made Simple. Courtney has a background in leadership psychology, business systems and emotional intelligence. She's worked with dozens of entrepreneurs to help them streamline their business structure, lead their teams to greatness, and become the visionary leader their company needs to succeed. I've developed a deep respect for the power of systems in both my podcast and in my business over the years. And you're going to hear more about this during my fascinating conversation with Courtney, where we do a deeper dive into systems made simple, and the power of podcasting. So without further ado, let's roll out this interview. All right, welcome back, everyone to another episode of the OTS gone rogue podcast. And today, we are chatting all about podcasting. So super excited to have you join us, Courtney, welcome to the podcast,

Courtney Elmer  07:23

Melissa, thank you for having me, I am so excited to be here. This is one of my favorite topics. And we've got a lot to unpack. So wherever you want to get started, I'm excited to begin.

Melissa LaPointe 07:32

Well, let's get started. For me, it's been interesting, because I've been a little bit privy to some of your journey. So you were the breakthrough of the Year Award when I was at a live event in California. So I got to see you on stage, I got to hear so much about your story. And I would love for you to share a little bit with the audience about how you ended up podcasting, and not just podcasting. You don't just have a podcast, you're doing some pretty cool things in terms of helping others to amplify their voice and build their audience and be more strategic with even deciding if a podcast is right for them or not. But if it is, right, oh my goodness, your content and your information and the resources you're sharing to speed up the process to help people, my audience is busy, they have a lot of things on the go. And when I see what you're able to do to help so many podcasters speed up the process, I have no doubt we're going to be sharing some gold in this in this interview. So tell us a little bit more about how how did you get started with your podcast and then shifting into the coaching consulting you're doing around podcasting? Yeah,

Courtney Elmer  08:43

So my business journey started with a cancer diagnosis when I was 25. And at that time, I recognized within myself within my life that I was really living parallel to my calling. I didn't have clarity on what that calling was. But I felt that there was a greater purpose that I was ignoring. There were gifts that were talents that I had, that I wasn't using. And I felt that that was going to waste. So when I had that wake up moment, I was like, okay, coordinate, nothing's gonna change unless you change, you've got to make some big changes. And so I set off on my journey. And part of that was me leaving my nine to five and stepping way out of my comfort zone, and starting my own coaching practice, and really, with an intention to help others learn how to decrease stress in their life. And just to give you a little bit of a nutshell, background, my work prior to that was in helping other business owners and entrepreneurs as their operations manager, helping them get systems and structure in place within their business. And the one thing that I saw time and time again with these business owners was not that their message was broken. It wasn't that their marketing was bad. It wasn't that their off offers were bad, certainly, there are always things we can do to tweak and improve those. But it was simply that they didn't have the right systems and structure and support in place to be able to get out there in front of a wider audience. So as my own business evolve, which my company is now called the effortless life, we've evolved over the past five plus years. And that's really the core of what we do is helping visionary leaders get the right systems and structure in place in their business so that they can scale to the level that they want to scale for some that six figures for some that's beyond that, for some that seven figures, but really having that structure and business structure in place to support you. And on the way in the early days, I would go out, walk my neighborhood, put my air pods in and binge listen to podcasts, it was one of the ways that I learned because in the beginning, I didn't have a lot of resources, I didn't have a ton of money to go for into you know, hiring a coach for five figures or whatever it might be. And so podcasts was how I learned. And one day it dawned on me. And I was like, You know what, all everything that I'm doing on social media right now feels like it's falling on deaf ears, I was really frustrated. And the resources weren't there to put into ad campaigns and things like that. So I was like, you know, what, if I started a podcast, just start reaching others with my message. And what if instead of sitting here listening to these experts share their knowledge every week, what if I could be the expert and share my knowledge with others and really build my own stage and build my own audience that way. And that idea really intrigued me. But I didn't do anything with it. I sat on that idea for about a couple of years. And it was always in the back of my mind. But I never took action until after that event that you talked about, I met someone at that event, who told me his story of how he had gone from being on food stamps, to launching a podcast in conjunction with his business, taking his business to multiple six figures, and how that podcast had become the primary source of leads and traffic for his business. And I thought, Okay, I can't sit on this idea anymore. And the truth was, I was sitting on that idea because I was afraid of rejection, I was afraid that if I were to start sharing my message that there will be people out there who didn't agree with me, there will be people out there who didn't like me, there will be people out there who would have something else to say, and go against what I was saying and why I was saying that you don't have to work as hard as you think you do to have success and this whole message of what I was teaching. And the reason for that was because, gosh, I remember this, like yesterday, I was nine years old. My mom was standing at the kitchen sink, and I was rattling off about something and I had a very big mouth when I was young and very opinionated and wanted to make those opinions known. And she turned and she looked at me and she goes Courtney, go to your room, your mouth is what gets you in trouble. And that stayed with me for 20-plus years. And I had this huge fear of speaking up and speaking out. Because I thought that when I did, it would equal rejection. And so it took a lot for me to get to the point to even launch a podcast. But when I did, we received over 68 I believe five-star reviews. Within the first week, people were reaching out to me saying how impactful the show was asking if they could book a call how they could work with me what my programs were. And fast forward two years later, we're now ranked among the top one and a half percent of shows in the world. I never saw any of that coming. And it's been incredible what a podcast is done for my business, so much so that when others started asking me what I did and how I did it, and I started sharing that with them, they started getting better results than I did. And I was like, Okay, this is what I'm on to something here. And I can't, I can't keep this a secret. I can't not share this. So that's when it really became an extension of the marketing systems that we teach within my signature program. And really just pulled this idea of growing your business with a podcast and creating a system for podcasting, which really can replace a lot of the marketing that you might be doing in your business right now, which just isn't working for you. So that's the long and short version of how I got from, you know, starting to really where I am now and in teaching this.

Melissa LaPointe 14:29

Well, I think a lot of listeners will strongly relate to parts of your story. So many of us are really spinning our wheels with social media. I hear that so often, from my clients from members in my audience. Oh, I'm exhausted from social media. I'm putting so much time and energy into social media I have so much that I want to share that I know is has the potential to be an impact poll, but it doesn't seem people are listening or I'm, you know, putting my blood sweat and tears into this content. That's just not the algorithm isn't working for them. And it's not that their content is not valuable. Now it's figuring out a system, figuring out a way to amplify that message that works for them that they actually enjoy. So that they're not burning out. Because, you know, I know the lifespan of a business, you know, it's tough, it's tough to get past that five-year mark. And if you're not doing something that lights you up, good luck. If you're doing something, it's so many of us create a job for ourselves with our business, because we don't have the systems, the infrastructure, the strategic plan to grow. And it's, you know, why do something if you don't love it, and certainly there are more people that this idea of podcasting of sharing their story of using their voice of connecting relationship-based marketing is such a big piece for so many therapists and coaches. So I love that you are creating more of a roadmap. So good, good work. And oh, my goodness, let's let's continue to unpack it to this little bit shall we?

Courtney Elmer  16:20

Yes, absolutely. And, you know, before we do, I just want to touch on what you said there about relationship marketing. And that was really the core for me as well, because I felt like on social media, I was struggling to have a deeper connection with my clients, potential clients, potential students, people in my community and network. And it was so difficult to fit what I wanted to share, especially when you're talking about helping someone on multiple levels of their life, right? Because, yes, we teach systems. But really, a lot of that starts with your mindset and goes into the strategy. And there's different facets of it. Just like for your listeners, there's different facets of what you teach. And so I was struggling to fit that into 150 word caption on Instagram, or a 15-second video clip. And that's really what I was craving. And so I found for me personally, and also for others that I've worked with it that piece podcasting does provide, just being able to sit here like we are today and having this conversation, and being able to facilitate that transformation that you want to facilitate for those people that you're out to impact, and how much more of effective use of your time it can be. Especially when you're someone who is busy who is taxed, who is already may be burnt out and feeling like oh, I can't add anything. You know, often say like, what if it's not about adding anything to your plate? What if it's just about replacing what's not working? And what's not lining you up right now with something that will?

Melissa LaPointe 17:50

So true, so true. I love this perspective.

Melissa LaPointe 17:54

Okay, so I want to talk about the beginning stages, who should start a podcast, but then we're also going to work our way over to talking to those who already have podcasts. Sound good?

18:08

Yes, let's do it. Okay.

Melissa LaPointe 18:09

So in the beginning, who should consider starting a podcast,

Courtney Elmer  18:14

if you have a message that you want to share, and people that you want to help? A podcast is a fantastic way to reach and help those people. And so, of course, if you're a business owner, it can be a great way to drive traffic to your business. But oftentimes, I talk with people who aren't business owners that still have that desire to help others, they have a message they want to share, and their desire, their core desire is just to make a greater impact. And so for those people to a podcast is a beautiful platform to do that. And it's really one of the only places that we have in this day and age. That's not censored. Not yet. Anyway, hopefully, never will be. But it's a place where people can freely express themselves, express their opinions, talk about different perspectives, without worrying if you know, Facebook's going to come and shut you down. Because you use the word that triggered their algorithm to say, oh, flag these people or you know, out here sharing misinformation, or whatever Facebook deems is air quotes misinformation, right? And so podcast is a platform where I really don't think people understand the power of it. And how many people you truly can reach in a very short span of time with a podcast and the connections you're able to build. So if you have a business, maybe you have a side hustle. Maybe you're still working in a traditional job, but you have a message to share in the desire to help people a podcast could be a great fit for you. Okay,

Melissa LaPointe 19:47

so people are on board. They're keen. Yes, I'm going to start a podcast.

Melissa LaPointe 19:54

What would you recommend? So I see when I first started my podcast, it was recommended. that I have eight episodes in the bank before starting my podcast. And that was one recommendation. Other people were saying, just plug in a mic, record it and start dripping it out. You have a unique approach in that you're really helping people to understand how to launch a podcast. So how to look at a podcast as a digital product as an offering and building some pieces to the puzzle being strategic with how you'd put it out to the world. Can you share a little bit more about that, including the benefit to taking that approach?

Courtney Elmer  20:37

Absolutely. You know, one of the biggest mistakes that breaks my heart. So many people think that a podcast is as easy as just okay, if I can just plug the microphone and record something for 20 minutes and hit publish that I will have, again, air quotes. I know those listening can't see my fingers right now. But I have launched my podcast. And the truth is there's a difference between hitting publish, and actually launching a show. Hitting publish is not the same as a true podcast launch. What happens when you don't launch a podcast is that chances are, you're gonna get pretty discouraged pretty early on. Because you will have these high expectations for your show, based on what you've heard based on maybe you've heard me in this episode, say, Whoa, podcast is so amazing. It's so powerful. And you go out there and you put your first episode out there, and it might feel like crickets. And so maybe you record a couple of episodes more still really not getting the reach, you're recognizing Gosh, I'm spending about, you know, I don't know, an hour a week or so putting these episodes together, getting it out there. And I'm just not seeing any traction from it yet. This is the situation many new podcasters find themselves in which causes them to stop recording after episode six. And that, to me is a very heartbreaking statistic because I know that all of those people started their show with an intention to help others to do good in the world to make a change, to inspire to impact and to share their message. And simply because they didn't know how to leverage a podcast, how to get ears and eyes on their podcast from an early stage. But that message is now gone unheard. So this is why I take the approach that I take when it comes to launching. So especially if you run an online business, you'll be able to relate to this. Usually in our online businesses, we have programs, we have group coaching, we have one on one coaching, we have things that we're launching from time to time. And so much like a launch for a program is designed to build awareness, build excitement for your program before it goes live, let people know what it's about, get them excited about what's coming. The podcast launch functions much the same way. And so really with a podcast launch, what we're doing is we're taking the community that you have, whether that's two people, or 20 people, or 200 people or 2000 people doesn't matter the size of your audience, but we're taking the community that you have. And we are building leverage utilizing that community in support of your show launch. And so there's a process to follow in order to do this. Building that runway, getting people excited, getting them really invested in what it is you're doing. So that that day that your launch, your podcast goes live, they are there to back you, they're there to support you, they're there to download your episodes, they're excited to listen, they're sharing it with their friends. And you've essentially done all of the work that most people save for later on the front end to build that buzz and excitement and awareness. So this is why the launch is so powerful. The other reason why launching the show is powerful is because rather than hitting publish, and expecting your show to take off really starting at I call it ground zero. But starting at this even playing field like everyone else usually starts, you're actually elevating yourself. And you're starting about 10 or 12 stories higher than most people would be at ground zero. And so you're getting more eyes and ears on your show from day one. And instead of building from Ground Zero, you're building from this elevated place where then you could continue to take advantage of that momentum really, and build and grow your show from there. And so what that does for you personally because it is tough to just get to the point where you're sharing your message, there's a learning curve, there's a lot of mental stuff that goes on and mindset, you know, and you've finally made it to that point. And then you start to see those downloads coming in, you start to see those reviews, you start to see people sharing it. That's very affirming for you as a new podcast host to say gosh, this really is landing with people. And that's why that statistic about most people quit after Episode Six breaks my heart so much because it wasn't their message. It wasn't them. It wasn't what they had to say. Sure, maybe their show could have been a bit better positioned or there could have been some things we could do to make it stand out. But just the simple fact that they didn't get enough eyes and ears on it from day one caused them to stop versus getting eyes and ears on it doing that strategically, in order to show you how valuable it is that you should keep going. Such

Melissa LaPointe 25:18

great stuff to think about. Is there anyone who you would suggest not start a podcast?

Courtney Elmer  25:27

I love this question. And the reason I love this question is because, yes, there are people out there who shouldn't start podcasts. Now, I'm not going to generalize and say, Oh, this type of person shouldn't start a podcast or you know, if you, you know, have 12 kids at home, and you know, whatever, they're busy and full, you should start a podcast, right? I'm not gonna generalize in that way. But if you already have a marketing system that's working for you, if you don't have a problem with leads and traffic flowing into your business, then maybe you don't need to add a podcast, there are those cases where someone has done work in their marketing in other ways, whether that be on social media, or they've been building their email list for a long time that maybe a podcast is not an immediate need, it would be something nice to do. But given the time that they have available, and the other things that are already in place that are working for them, maybe it's not a fit for that person. It also might not be a fit for someone who isn't committed to showing up for their audience week after week in that way. You know, if you don't have that desire to have a connection with your ideal client, or if you don't have that desire to have a greater reach and a greater impact and help others maybe that desire is just not there for you. And if it's not, that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe a podcast isn't the perfect platform for you. And the commitment piece is essential, because just like anything else, and we hear it all the time, social media, email doesn't matter. But we got to be consistent, right, you got to be consistent, especially more so than ever, because there's more noise out there than ever. And nowhere is that more true than with a podcast. But for a different reason. It's not because you have to continually be pumping out content just to get eyes and ears because actually, with podcasting, you're building a large library of evergreen content that people can refer back to for months and years to come. But the consistency piece with podcasting comes in in the way that it builds trust with your audience, and essentially builds your credibility and term. Because if you're showing up week after week, consistently, for months for years, that builds trust. And when a new listener comes to your show, and they see gosh, she's got 25 episodes, she's got 38 episodes, she's got 102 episodes, she's been doing this for a while, immediately, even without you having to say a word, even without them having to click in and listen to an episode of yours, that trust is already starting to build simply by the fact that you are showing up consistently in that way for them. So there's a difference between just pumping out content versus showing up in a consistent strategic way. And if you're someone who doesn't feel like you could do that, devote an hour of your time week, to showing up for your audience in that way. Same as if you were writing a blog post once a week, and you were putting out a blog post once a week, same as if you're sending out an email to your weekly list, you know, weekly email, a podcast operates much the same way. And on the flip side of that, you know, let's use the weekly email example. I know some people listening, they'll probably laugh at this. And this was me 100%, especially in the early days of my business when I didn't have systems in place, which is kind of ironic, you know, the systems girl, but she didn't have systems in place, because I was still figuring everything out for myself. And so I would get really excited, and I would get some new subscribers to my list, and I would start sending out emails and then inevitably life would happen, something would happen, I'd stopped sending those emails and subscribers would grow cold. And the next time I sent out an email three, four or five weeks later, those people would unsubscribe. And it was this constant cycle. But the reason was, was because I wasn't consistent with it. I wasn't building that trust consistently week after week. And the same is true with a podcast, you know. So the consistency piece really is key. That's why I'm harping on it so much because that piece has to be there. So those would be kind of the types of people that I would say maybe podcast isn't a good fit for you. You know, and it's okay, if it isn't. But for those that are looking for a way to streamline their marketing and get more leads and sales and who are saying to themselves, well, I wouldn't have a problem with the consistency side, I would actually be good for me. I'd love to just have one thing that I could pull in and plug in and play every week, then a podcast could be a great fit for you.

Melissa LaPointe 29:46 

Let’s peel back a few layers and strategy. So we've mentioned strategy. How can a podcast tie into our sales strategy our marketing strategy Well, we've talked, we've already touched on the marketing strategy, but sales, how does a podcast translate into more sales? What is because again, that's another topic that many of my listeners are leaning into, they are doing the work in terms of transforming their relationship with sales, because it doesn't have to be a bad thing people, actually, I'm going to say can be a very transformative experience and a wonderful thing. So how do we work on that connection between podcasting and more sales from our coaching programs, our courses, our you know, whether it's one on one group services, what that may look like?

Courtney Elmer  30:47

Yeah, I'm glad you tied this together and made that connection between Okay, podcasting, generating traffic and leads. But how does that actually translate to sales, because at the end of the day, that's what we ultimately want, especially if you have a business, and you're going to be utilizing podcasts as part of your marketing strategy, all marketing should lead to a sale should lead to some sort of conversion. And so what I like to think of and I'm just gonna invite you if you're not driving right now, and if your visual may be closing your eyes can help you visualize this. Just think in your mind, I want you to imagine a funnel. And we often see this sometimes in marketing, we've heard of marketing funnels, or sales funnels. The way that I see marketing and sales funnels is that there are two funnels connected end to end. So you have a marketing funnel at the top, and then you have a sales funnel right underneath it. So your marketing funnel, what that's designed to do is to capture people who might not know about you build awareness, build trust, and lead them into your sales funnel, where you then educate someone on your program and the value of what you provide and leads to a sale. So your podcast essentially is positioned at the top of your marketing funnel. And on an episode, when you structure your episode, the correct way, you're the only job of your episode is to lead someone from maybe not knowing about you, or maybe knowing of you, but not knowing all that you offer just yet. Building trust and awareness and inviting them to take action. Now that action could be a sale, maybe you ask for a sale right then in there. More often, it's often asking them to subscribe to something you know, you wouldn't outright say or subscribe to my email list. But you might say, Hey, I've got this amazing guide, you can go download, and they get that guide in exchange for their email, you might have a lead magnet or something like that. Another piece to build trust. And then that is the entry point that conversion right there is the entry point into your sales funnels. And this is something that I teach my mastermind students when we're talking about systems, you know, your marketing and sales funnels work in tandem. So your marketing funnel is working to bring people in where your sales funnel is working to bring someone to that point of sale. So your podcasts and how this fits into the mix is not only warming someone up, and building trust along the way, it's also collapsing the amount of time that it normally takes someone to go from cold lead to ready to buy from you. Now, typically, one of the key steps that happens along the way is that they join your email list somewhere in the process. And this is where a lot of the systems that automation that I teach on the back end kick in as well, where your podcast brings them to you. And then that system might take over and say Okay, now here's the journey where I'm taking you to lead you to this call to action, which is to purchase whatever it might be. Other times though, some people are ready right then and there from your podcast to skip all of that and just go straight to the point of sale. I have a student, Catherine, who launched her podcast last July. And in September, she shared a post in our student community and she said, I am an all at how many of my leads, and no calls that I am getting booked, are coming from my podcasts and they are buying my high ticket programs, which I know for her was a 10k package. They are buying my medium ticket programs. And they're all letting me know that their podcast was either how they found me or it was the reason that they chose to book a call. So those people are directly going straight to her sales mechanism, which for these programs was a sales call. And she's able to make that sale so it has translated into actual revenue in her business. So you can sit there and do the math, you know, you can sit and say okay, if I'm having a podcast and I'm going to be casting this wider net to people, and collapsing the amount of time it might take that person to buy from me. And then I'm simply making invitations and making M's extending an invitation and making an offer on my podcast for them to either get on my email list and learn more or to book a call with me or maybe to buy something that's low ticket. You know, right now we have an offer on our show for a $49 short course that I'm teaching all about podcasting. And some people just go straight to that, but we are offering a variety. So no matter where someone's at, you're capturing them, and you're leading them to the next step. And then you can just run the numbers and based on whatever your offering is, and take a look and see, gosh, if I just booked five calls a month from my podcast, or two calls a month, or 10 calls a month and converted half of those, then I would hit this revenue goal, right, and it can be given to be very easy to see how that actually translates into dollars. Now, there are over 20 ways that you can monetize a podcast. But as a business owner, you have a distinct advantage, because versus having an advertiser pay you to be on your podcast or sponsors. While that certainly can add revenue down the road, or as an affiliate advertising someone else's programs, you have the unique opportunity to drive traffic right into your programs, where you're capturing 100% of that revenue as well.

Melissa LaPointe 36:00

Such good stuff, I have not been taking a ton of notes. But already in my brain, I'm thinking I need to read listen to this with a different, you know, with my notepad in front of me and you're doing such a fabulous job of simplifying this. I find in the online space. We're both in it. We know that people can overcomplicate things. We know that, leaders, instructors, a lot of the experts can overcomplicate things. So thank you for simplifying this. And helping people understand there's a natural progression. And it doesn't have to be complicated. I love this. I love it

Courtney Elmer  36:44

or less. What would it be if it wasn't effortless, right? And that's it. That's the core of my mission is like, you know, in fact, I'll just share this briefly, I was putting together a sheet of info sheet for my VA today, to help her just get a deeper understanding of who we are, what we stand for why we do what we do, why we teach what we teach. And that will help her inform you know, some of the content that she's putting together for us. And I was sitting there thinking to myself, you know, fact, I have this manifesto, we call it the effortless life manifesto, the effortless CEO manifesto. And it's this idea, it's built on this idea that you do not have to work hard to have success, you do have to work. But it doesn't have to feel difficult. You don't have to feel resistance, you don't have to earn it by feeling burnt out all the time or exhausted. And that true success will be achieved when you're enjoying the journey along the way. And the way you do that is by being able to focus on your zone of genius. Because I would think for anyone listening, we all can agree that we've had those moments where we feel in flow. And we've had those moments in our life and in our work where we feel connected. And we feel like oh my gosh, I could just do this for all day, every day, I would be the happiest person in the world. That's your zone of genius. And so when we can get the systems and structure and support in place and simplify the heck out of the process, like you said, why overcomplicated when it doesn't have to be that frees up not only your time, but also your mental energy to be able to devote to those things that you truly love. Which Yes, it's work, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels fulfilling, it feels satisfying. And that is the work that will lead you to that feeling of success.

Melissa LaPointe 38:34

So true. So true.

Melissa LaPointe 38:38

Courtney, before we start to wrap this up, there's one topic that we haven't touched on that I would love to explore a little bit more, because I have received some not-so-great pitches to be on my podcast. So can we talk about pitching yourself to other podcasts? Are there any do's and don'ts that you can feel free to enlighten us and help our listeners because again, it doesn't matter if you have your own podcast, there's still benefit to being on other podcasts tapping into other audiences. But oh my goodness, I've seen ways to do it. And I've seen ways to not do it.

Courtney Elmer  39:19

Yes. Oh, I love that you brought this up. This is one of my favorite topics. In fact, if it uh mentioned this year, and if this does help your listeners, I do have a template and a guide to follow when it comes to pitching yourself to other audiences. And I'm also happy to share to make this so simple and easy. Because yes, there are some ways to do it. And there are some ways not to do it and as a host now of like as a show. That's right top global show. Yeah, we get pitches all day long and it's like some of these people I would love to bring everyone on my show. Actually that's not true. I have learned that there are certain people I would love to bring on my show I'd love if I could to be able to bring as many people as possible on However at the same time my Audience is my number one priority. And so there are people that I have to say no to. And that can feel hard sometimes, especially in the beginning, because some of us have this fear. And it's just something that comes up. It's not that we consciously decide this, but it's like, I'm new, I'm just gonna get anybody and everybody that I can bring on the show, I don't want to run out of guests. So I'm just going to bring everybody on. But the truth is, You are the protector of your audience, as the show host. So if you have a show of your own, or if you're considering a show of your own, you want to, you want to maintain that mindset when selecting guests for your show. Now, on the flip side of that, and I'm talking about pitching yourself as a guest, you want to also keep in mind that the host is the protector of their audience. And they are the gatekeeper of their audience. So when you're sending in a pitch, whether it's, you know, you have a show, and you're just like me, I'm just here as a guest today, even though I have my own show, or whether you don't have a show, but you're growing your audience through podcast guesting, which is another fabulous strategy, by the way, that pitch is going to be essential for you, whether getting in the gate for them opening the gate for you to be on their show. Now, here's what I will say from the onset, don't expect your first pitch to be a home run, maybe you send it in, it's a heck yes, please come, I'd love to have you on the show. And you know, great. At the same time, sometimes we can get paralyzed by the pressure to do it right or to do it perfectly. So keep in mind as I share these tips for pitching and what not to do and what to do that use this as a guide to do the best that you can and send the pitch. You know, because if your goal is to get on more shows, and to get in front of more audiences, whether you're a host or just a guest that you want to share your message, your goal is to get as many yeses as possible. And sometimes it does boil down to just simply the numbers. So if you get some nose here and there, don't just don't let that discourage you just know that that host is simply the gatekeeper of their audience, maybe your message wasn't a right fit at that time. Sometimes shows go through seasons or themes, content themes that people are working around. And maybe it could be because your pitch needs a little bit of work, which we'll talk about how to improve that. But it's never because of you. Okay, so if you get rejected, or if you get a no from when you're pitching yourself. Don't take that personally in the sense that you make mean something about you and your message. Okay, so now that we've set that got that part out of the way, let's talk about what to do and not do when pitching, I get so many pitches that you can tell or copy and paste it, they changed the name at the top. And they just sent it it's just a blanket pitch, do not blanket pitch people. It doesn't feel personal, it feels cold, it feels like you didn't take your time to really get to know that person's audience. And it feels I'm going to use the word selfish. I don't mean that it is selfish. But it from that perspective, it can feel selfish because that guest you know, if I'm the host sitting here reviewing pitches, this guest over here took their time to research my show, maybe to even listen to an episode to make some personal connections before they've pitched me with their idea. Whereas this guest over here, just hit send on a copy paste email to pitch me and it feels very impersonal feels like they didn't take their time, which means that they're only looking at what's in it for them to get in front of more audiences, right? So you want to really take the approach as to how can I serve this hosts audience? How can I bring my expertise to the table to maybe fill a content gap, something that I know this audience would benefit from hearing. But that hasn't been a topic discussed on this show. Or if it has been a topic discussed, what's another angle that you could bring to the table, taking the time to do that little bit of research, look up the show, look up the host, look up their social media, look up some of their most recent episodes, listen to some of the most recent episodes, take the time to write a review, and share that review with the person when you're sending it to them. All of those little things, while they take a little bit of time upfront, will go a very, very long way to getting you a yes, because it will show the host that you care. So there's four parts to a good pitch. And in the template, I'll walk you through what these are. And like I said, I'm happy to share that. But it literally it's color-coded and it breaks it down like this part of the pitch is where you do your intro, and you make that personal connection with your guest. This part is where you're sharing the win for them. Again, framing it from your guests perspective. What is the win for them, not for you. Of course, the win for you is to get in front of their audience and the host knows that trust me, the host knows that they know that's what you want. But what's the win for the host? And so by framing whatever the topic is that you teach and saying, Hey, I've noticed that you haven't talked about this on your show before and here's how I could really serve your audience. You know, because I know your audience is interested in getting more leads and sales to their business, teaching them the insider secrets to starting a podcast could be a potential fit, what do you think? And then that's the ask at the very end, are you interested and your goal with your first pitch is not to get the booking and to immediately like have them send you the link in the guest form and all this stuff, it's just to get a yes, we're interested. That's all you're looking to do to initiate that conversation. So, you know, with pitching, those are really kind of the big themes, like it goes much deeper into this as well, my favorite topics, but the template will really help as well. And you can walk yourself through that, it's literally a couple of examples, how to lay it out what to say, gives you some ideas. And then you can use that framework for every pitch that you send, and just tweaking a few little things to personalize it to the person that you're pitching.

Melissa LaPointe 45:56

So good. And, you know, it's not my job as the podcast host, to try to figure out how you who is pitching to me fits in with my audience. So when I get these pitches that you know, and it's not even from them, it's from their assistant, so when I get pitches from the assistant, they're so great. They've written books, they've done this, they've done that, and I'm racking my brain trying to think, how are you even connected to my audience? How could you benefit what I'm providing? You know, and I'm just looking and thinking is this the right fit, it doesn't feel it feels a little icky. It doesn't feel like I don't see the connection. But it's not up to me to try to make that connection if you want to be on my podcast. First of all, listen to the podcast. Know who I'm targeting, and all the things that you said, take the time, but I get so many notes, essentially cold calls, like showing up in my DMs cold calling, trying to sell me something when I've never heard of you, I don't see the benefit in what you're offering. And to be frank, you're wasting my time. So thank you for highlighting, you know, all the different ways. And I know listeners of my podcast, such a difference when I hear from them who they are devoted listeners. And now here's how it's benefiting. And here's what I'd like to share. And it's this genuine interest in connecting to my listeners to connecting to my audience versus Hey, you know, we have a goal to get my boss on so many podcasts and we Google then you came up in one of the searches, like, Thanks, but no thanks.

Courtney Elmer  47:49

I know. And you know, I don't mean to laugh, or just say oh my god, just people out there, you know, are terrible for pitching this way. Maybe they just don't know. But get informed. And when you know better you do better, right? And so when you have these little things, you know, even a simple template to follow. Then already, you're a leg above the rest of and I could tell you stories all day long, just like you shared some just now but these pitches that come in and it's like, did you even like read this before? You hit said really? You don't it's unfortunate. And I get that our world moves at a fast-paced I get oftentimes it's an assistant that's they're cranking them out and trying to meet a quota or get as many pitches in as they can and they think oh, well, it's a numbers game. So whatever. I'm just going to send as many as I can. And whoever says yes. Whoever says no, uh, well, and for some reason they think the more pitches we can send, then that means the more yeses we'll get not necessarily. It's quality over quantity. Sure numbers can play a factor, you send out 10 pitch pitches a month, and maybe you get five yeses. It'd be a great close rate, you get 10 sales calls a month to get five. Yes, that'd be awesome. close rate 50%. Right. And so what if you could just make that 60%? What if you get six out of 10. But if you can get so good that you get seven out of 10? You know, is it unrealistic to expect 10 out of 10, maybe you're getting 10 out of 10, you should pitch 20 and just start you know, going from there. And that's really it. And so I will say this too, just to really reinforce this for those listening that are like, I don't think I could have a podcast of my own right now. But I am interested in getting my feet wet. And being a guest on others podcasts. Being a guest is a fantastic way to take advantage. Maybe take advantage isn't the right word, to borrow other, someone else's audience in order to build your own. And this is a point that I wanted to mention with pitching that I forgot to mention. So I'll say it now is that when you're pitching podcast hosts, you want to make sure that that audience actually makes sense for you. That it's aligned. Because for me to go pitch myself to be on the top fitness podcast today. Okay, maybe it's a stretch we could talk about how fitness people can To start a podcast, and that would be great. But my, my main person is a business owner, I want to be on those marketing podcasts that are reaching other business owners. Right. So thinking about that, too, in terms of just the strategy, when selecting what shows to pitch, you want to look for audience alignment, because if you're going to spend 45 minutes on a podcast interview, it does you no good to spend that 45 minutes, if the people who hear it are not going to be likely to convert, to take you up on the invitation that you're offering, and say, Hey, here's my gift, or you could book a call with me here or come follow me on Instagram, if they're not going to take you up on that you've just wasted 45 minutes. Whereas if you have an aligned audience, then that 45 minutes could be some of the most valuable more than five minutes that you have spent in your business, in terms of bringing you traffic.

Melissa LaPointe 50:53

Yes. So onboard with that.

Melissa LaPointe 50:59

Yeah, lots of great ways. And again, I hope for those of you who are listening, you're hearing the strategy. And you know, there's always the opportunity to go deeper. And if Oh, my goodness being on 10 app, so it'd be not 10 podcasts a month sounds like a lot. What are your goals? What are your intentions? And anytime we're moving forward, I always encourage my client's pause, slow down, look back. Can you do any tidying up behind you? My clients have joked that I'm Marie Kondo of their businesses where I'm helping them you know, it's a lot of purging a lot of pulling things out. But then I'm going in behind them to help them simplify to help them build better systems, better infrastructure to support that growth. So if there's something that you're feeling, oh, my goodness, you know, Melissa and Courtney are sharing great info right now. But my plate is full, I have too many things going on, I guarantee slow down look behind you. There's a way that you can simplify your systems that you can be more strategic with your efforts where you can do less with more and gain traction, right? But it does mean a lot of slowing down look behind you. What can you do to tidy things up? We waste a lot of time. Don't wait without those systems in place.

Courtney Elmer  52:20

Oh, yes. I love that. I love the idea to look back, and see what can be tidied up. And really even looking back, and noticing what it hasn't been working for you. What hasn't been lighting you up? What has been the things that have been draining you in fact, I have a journal. There's a book that I love. It's one of my top three business books. It's called the next right thing. And it's a guide for making decisions in life and in business, then there's a journal that goes with it. And every month, you review, what were the things that drained me this month. And what were the things that really lit me up and just got me excited. And it almost gave me energy, even though I was spending energy to do the thing. And to be able to have that clarity allows you to lean more into those things, and to notice what isn't working. So for many months on my list, I'm like social media, social media, it's not working. It's not working like it's draining me. And when I felt this need that I had to be on social media and I had to show up every day. And I had to be sharing all this stuff and doing the reels and the trends. And it was eating me alive. And I realized that by leaning deeper into my podcast, which like you said, you could always go deeper start, and then go deeper as you go. You could there are sips, there's great. There's depths, I haven't even gone through with my podcast yet. And so by really focusing in on my podcast, which is a thing that I love, I can sit here do interviews like this all day long. And by letting go of some of the things that weren't working for me, I was actually able to save time, but to also save my sanity and my energy and my output by replacing what wasn't working with something. That is that was also more enjoyable. So don't look at it that way as well. Yeah, can be very powerful.

Melissa LaPointe 54:10

Good. That's, and I wrote that book them. So thank you. That's good, I'm always looking for book recommendations. All right. Well, Courtney, I am aware of our time. So it is, you know, let's wrap this up. So you have a gift for my audience. So can you share where people can find you? We talked about your podcast, but let's give it one more plug and share in terms of this gift that I'm very grateful for?

Courtney Elmer  54:38

Yeah, so I love working with other business owners who are struggling in their business, when it comes to getting clarity on even what systems you need to have in place in your business. And not only showing you what those systems are but helping you get them installed in your business so that you can actually gain that traction just like we were talking about. And so my podcast is systems may Simple and you can find it everywhere podcasts are found, you know, whatever app you're listening to right now you can just go search for it, it'll pull right up. And my website is the effortless life.co. So if you just want to go learn more about what we do and how we can help, definitely check that out. I'm on Instagram at the Courtney Elmer, just my name, send me a DM, let me know that you heard me here on Melissa's podcast, and the gift. So this is something that has been, gosh, it's been so useful for those of feedback that I've gotten on this has been incredible. And it's very simple. It's a PDF guide called the five things you need to know before starting a podcast. And in this guide, I really unpack the top five misconceptions about podcasting, and help you work through those based on your unique situation so that you can really determine if a podcast is the next best step for you. So if you want to grab that you can just go to the effortless life Dotco slash Melissa Lapointe, you'll be able to just click through and download it. And I will also give you a link Melissa to that you can include in the show notes for those that were interested in that pitch template, we can include that in for your guests for your audience as well.

Melissa LaPointe 56:09

All right, thank you. This episode was like a mini-course on podcasting. So there was a lot of great value that we jam-packed into our time together. And I'm really appreciative of this. And I'm really excited to see how many for those of you listening, let me know, are you going to finally take that step and start your podcast. Or maybe you already have a podcast and you've started to burn out a little bit. And you've gotten some ideas of how to gain traction of how to improve your systems be more intentional with what you're doing. Or maybe you already had plans on starting the podcast. But now we've given you just a little bit in terms of Wait a sec, there are some things I can do to launch this podcast so that I'm gaining that traction sooner rather than later. So regardless of those takeaways, whichever one they are, please let me know, I'm really excited to see how more of you listening can get your message out to the world through podcasting because it is a lot of fun. And you know, you get free consulting and you get to meet amazing people like Courtney, so I love it.

Courtney Elmer  57:19

Awesome. Well, listen, this has been so much fun. Thank you for having me today. And just for sharing me with your listeners. And I just appreciate that, you know, because at the end of the day just kind of circling back to the power of podcasting. Like being able to reach people, and to help people with where they're at right now. something specific that they're working on or working through is the greatest gift to me. So thank you so much for having me on.

Melissa LaPointe 57:43

Thank you. That was a jam-packed episode with all kinds of goodness. I hope you got as much out of it as I did. Be sure to check out the show notes for Courtney's special gift for our listeners. And as always, if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment and leave us a review. I am all about quality interactions and engagement with my audience these days. Meaning if you'd like to connect and share more about your experience with the podcast, you can find me on LinkedIn at Melissa LaPointe. Or you can find me on Instagram at OTS gone rogue so drop me a DM I would love to connect. Alright, take care everyone and we'll be back with a new episode in a couple of weeks.