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Judges 2-4; 6-8; 13-16 Part 2 • Dr. Lori Denning • May 25 - 31 • Come, Follow Me
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Dr. Lori Denning turns to two of Israel’s most complicated judges, Gideon and Samson, and shows how gifted, Spirit-empowered men and women can unravel under the weight of pride and broken covenants, and why their stories are less a museum exhibit than a mirror.
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TIMECODE
00:00 - Part 2 - Dr. Lori Denning
02:29 Gideon tears down his father’s idol at night
03:31 Joash steps into the gap to defend his son and a twin story
06:36 The significance of Joash and Jael as additional helpers
07:11 Signs that confirm faith vs. create it–The Fleece
10:44 Applying the fleece
12:09 Gideon’s downfall–pride, the ephod, and the parallels
15:32 Absolute power corrupts absolutely
17:02 Sampson’s introduction and the repeating cycle
18:42 Monoah’s unnamed wife–the elements of birth type scene
22:28 The Nazarite vow and Samson as symbol of covenant Israel
25:23 Samson’s mother lives the Nazarite vow and Minoah’s slowness
27:38 Parataxis–Minoah’s reaction vs his wife’s recognition of the angel
33:28 Anonymity in scripture as universality
35:09 Sampson as cautionary tale and failure to repent
36:41 Samson’s first words, “I saw, I took.”
40:32 The Philistine wife story: The riddle, the betrayal, and the burning
42:57 Transition to Delilah, Samson is already corrupt
44:02 “Fell in love” as covenant language and Delilah as anti-mother
45:48 The 4 rounds with Delilah and secret of his hair
48:10 Samson chained, blinded, only prayer for personal vengeance
50:12 “Everyone did what was right in their own eyes”
51:00 Closing reflection: Hope, warning signs, Jesus as true king
53:42 Women in Judges as covenant markers, and final testimony of Jesus Christ
58:14 End of Part 2 - Dr. Lori Denning
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John Bytheway: 00:01 Welcome back to part two with Dr. Lori Denning, the book of Judges.
Hank Smith: 00:06 Touched my heart. Where are all these miracles that we've heard about? And he mentions Egypt. Where's our Red Sea? Where's the plagues that save us? That is pretty snarky, but what you said there, Lori, was important. How come everyone else is getting all these wonderful blessings? And he says, If the Lord be with us, why is it so hard? Why is it so awful? And then he's, you're going to be the guy. He's like, wait, what? Where's all the miracles? Go look in the mirror. You're going to be the miracle.
Dr. Lori Denning: 00:35 And he's like, Well, I didn't want to go that far. I didn't say it should be me. And that is powerful though, isn't it, where we say, I don't know if the Lord remembers me. I don't even doubt that miracles have happened in other people's lives, but where's my miracle? Or when's he going to step in? Or when's it enough? Or does he even remember me? That feels really real.
Hank Smith: 00:55 And not only do I remember you, I'm going to actually answer your prayers with you. I love that where the Lord says, Where are the miracles? Have I not sent you? Here we go. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. How am I supposed to save Israel? I'm a nobody. And like you said, Lori, you're perfect.
Dr. Lori Denning: 01:14 You're perfect.
Hank Smith: 01:14 Exactly what I want.
Dr. Lori Denning: 01:15 The littlest guy of the littlest tribe of the smallest family that's hiding, I can do something with that. I can make that work. So not only I think does he see us, but he can make us mighty men of valor, mighty women of valor. He can say, With me, I can do all things. I can even make you, little Gideon, pretty cool. If you just ended on the story of Gideon, that's even cooler, but it keeps going. There are two stories that I think are really powerful. There's a bunch of them here and we won't have time to probably go through all of them. One of the first ones is the one where he gives him some first instruction. He tells him to go and he says, Go tear down the Ba'als. Go tear down the statues. Now, remember we heard in chapter two that they were going to have to tear down the altars.
01:59 Here's an actual assignment. Go tear down those other gods. Get them out. In fact, don't just tear them down in town. Go to your dad's. Go tear down your dad's idols, his altars, his bulls and his poles and his scary things. And so do you think Gideon just marches out and just says, whew, good news. Lord's with me. I'm going to go, be full of bravery. No, go to verse 27 and let's see what he did. John, do you have verse 27 that you could read for us?
John Bytheway: 02:29 Judges 6:27. So Gideon took 10 of his servants and did as the Lord had told him, but because he was too afraid of his family and the townspeople to do it by day, he did it by night. Doing that mighty men of valor thing again.
Dr. Lori Denning: 02:45 I love that he took some friends. He's not afraid for no reason. He's saying, If I go and do this, they will kill me. So he doesn't go during day. He goes at night, which is an interesting hero. He's not like boldly, mighty man of valor like, I sneak in and do it at night. No one knows me. And he still does it though. He still does it. But it's real fear because the next day the townspeople woke up early and they noticed that the altar was broken down and the sacred pole and it was cut down and the bull was offered on the altar and they said, Who has done this? And after searching, they said, Gideon son of Joash did it. And the people go to the dad, Joash, and they said, Bring out your son that he may die for he has pulled down our altar and cut down the sacred pole. I'm paraphrasing a little.
03:31 Joash says, and I love this, To all who were arrayed against him, you contend for Ba'al or will you defend his cause? Whoever contends for him shall be put to death by morning for if he's a God, let him contend for himself because the altar has been pulled down. Think of this for a second. It's your son, but it's your worship. The people come and they find out and said, Bring out your son and we're going to kill him. And he steps into the gap. He steps in and says, I'm not going to kill him. The Baal can fight for himself. If he's a god, he can step up. He's really lucky they didn't kill him, but he steps up. Now remember, this is a part member family and a lot of us are part member families. We're blended families or converts almost all of us.
04:20 I wonder if we don't have people like Joash in our life that step into the gap. When I decided to go back to school, it was a big decision for me because I had a career. I was in business. At one point I even worked at Frito-Lay, right? The chip company. I thought that I had made it as far as corporate America had gone. I was then later a vice president and a director. So I had these big titles. I'd made corporate America. When I felt really directed to go back to school and become a biblical scholar as an adult, I don't know if you can tell, but I'm old. It's hard to know, is this the right thing to do? And my parents were always very supportive and friends were supportive, but there was one person that stepped into the gap for me. And you guys might know her, but it's my twin sister. That's going to make me cry.
Hank Smith: 05:11 We know her and love her.
Dr. Lori Denning: 05:13 We do. She has been such a big support during this challenge. It's been eight years or something since I went back to school and then all the way through the PhD and she would always support me and in so many ways, spiritually, financially, just motivation. She would even have cookies delivered at my house when I passed a big test or when something happened. So she was tracking my progress so much that I never felt like I was doing it on my own. She stepped into that gap when I needed it. Even though she is a scholar of the gospel, as you know, she does it behind the scenes. Some of you know her and some of you don't, but she's a big lesson to me of how we can be that Joash for other people too. We can step up and support them in what the Lord has asked them to do. So thanks, Lisa.
Hank Smith: 06:10 The wonderful Lisa Spice.
John Bytheway: 06:13 Yeah. People who listen often hear the name Lisa Spice. Twin sister of Lori Denning.
Dr. Lori Denning: 06:19 Yeah. She is my twin. She's the cute twin. So there you go. All right.
Hank Smith: 06:24 The cute identical twin.
Dr. Lori Denning: 06:26 Yeah, we're identical. Yeah. So don't, don't read into that at all. Yeah.
Hank Smith: 06:30 I love that. Joash steps up for his son. If you want him, you have to go through me.
Dr. Lori Denning: 06:36 Even Gideon needs help. He's a mighty men of valor because he has help. We have now found two heroes. Jael isn't a member, a covenant member, and Joash isn't a covenant member. We have help with our broader Christian cousins, covenant cousins, and people in the world that will come to our aid. We're never really alone with good people around us. And I love that the scriptures here salute them as well.
Hank Smith: 07:06 That's a great story. That's not one you usually think of with Gideon.
John Bytheway: 07:11 Can we talk about the fleece?
Dr. Lori Denning: 07:13 We can. If we jump down to the end of chapter six about 36, it's just a handful of verses, just four or so verses. And it tells about the fleece. John, do you know the story? Do you want to read it for us or just tell it to us?
John Bytheway: 07:26 He wants some reassurance. This is the NRSV. Then Gideon said to God, In order to see whether you will deliver Israel by my hand, as you have said, I'm going to lay a fleece of wool on the threshing floor. If there is dew on the fleece alone and it is dry on all the ground, then I shall know that you will deliver Israel by my hand as you have said. And it was so. When he arose early next morning and squeezed the fleece, he wrung out enough dew from the fleece to fill a bowl with water. Then Gideon said to God, Do not let your anger burn against me. Let me speak one more time. Let me please make trial with the fleece just once more. Let it be dry only on the fleece and on the ground, let there be dew. God did so that night. It was dry on the fleece only and on the ground there was dew.
Dr. Lori Denning: 08:18 I love how you started it though as like you said that, hey, he says, See if you're going to deliver by my hand. Here, I mean, here's Gideon. The least brave guy we have met so far, even after his dad stepping in, even after talking to an angel, he's like, God, just to be clear, I want to make sure you really think it's me that's supposed to be the deliverer, this mighty man of valor, so will you do a thing for me? He does it one way, the fleece is wet and the ground is dry, and then the second is the other way, the fleece is dry and the ground is wet, so he's asking for the reverse, could naturally settle on wool, but it would be super weird if it was the other way. And I love his quote, Let not thine anger be kindled against me and I will speak but this once. Like he knows when he's asking for it. Like, don't be mad, but I really, really, really, really, really need some assurance here before I go to war. Me. To war. I just need a confirmation. John, what about this jumps out to you or you find intriguing?
John Bytheway: 09:24 I remembered that story from Michael Wilcox and it touched me because there's lots of times when you're not, you're not really sign seeking, you just, can you give me one more little encouragement? This is what he wrote. "Some have felt Gideon was sign seeking, which we are warned not to do, but there's a difference between asking for a sign to create faith and then deciding to act and asking for a sign to confirm faith, strengthening a previous decision to act. We often say to the Lord, show me and I will act. The Lord replies, act and I will show you, but fleeces or not, Gideon was going to face the Midianites. The Lord will grant us our own fleeces when we are in need of strength. When we cry out, as did the father of the boy with the dumb spirit, Lord, I believe, help thou mine unbelief. The Lord is willing to respond." So he needed a fleece, that guy. "When the walls look high and strong but we intend to face them anyway, the soft fleeces of comforting reassurance will come. They may come in the inspired words of a Father's blessing or in a special verse of scripture we are led to in our reading. They may come as we counsel with a leader or in a conversation with a friend. Often they come with a peace of the Holy Ghost. During these times, we must be careful not to let our fears blind us to the fleeces that God has sent."
Dr. Lori Denning: 10:44 I love that the Lord met Gideon where he was. Gideon wasn't confident and to be fair, he was asking a lot. Please go up in a army and remember you were a farmer 10 minutes ago. So you would be frightened, not only for myself but for everyone I'm going to take with me. Is this really what you want me to do? Am I really the right guy or gal? There's so many other good people you could choose to be the bishop or to go on a mission or to help this ministering sister. There's so many other people that could stand up for truth that could say the right thing, that could vote in my country. There's somebody else. There's got to be somebody else. And he's like, no, no, you can do it. You can do it. I love that the Lord meets Gideon where he is. He doesn't rebuke him either. He says, Okay. Yeah, I'll just do it. I'll show you. If that's what you need, I can do that.
John Bytheway: 11:38 We can all relate to a time with a calling with we have to teach a class we're nervous about that I need a fleece. I think a patriarchal blessing, you can go back to, what a fleece the Lord has offered us with those and we can go back and read that and say, Okay, this says this. Have you ever done that, you guys? Have you ever quoted your patriarchal blessing to the Lord?
Hank Smith: 12:00 Yeah.
John Bytheway: 12:00 As I have. Look, it says right here in paragraph-
Hank Smith: 12:03 We had a contract.
John Bytheway: 12:05 Yeah, we had a deal.
Dr. Lori Denning: 12:09 Maybe not. It's bold, but I, I love the boldness. You're like, Oh, I could try that. You could probably quote it back at me, and you said... Yes, yes. I did say those things. I did. That is correct. That's beautiful. We all need a fleece from time to time. We need a Joash and a fleece and a Jael and a Deborah. We all need somebody to go along with us, step into the gap and say, yep, this is where you're supposed to be. There's another story that goes on and so we don't want to miss it, but for time, I do want to skip to an end. And Judges 7, we hear what happens and most people know this story, right, where he whittles down the army and then they win kind of in a miraculous way. We'll let you read that on your own, but there is an interesting part that sometimes we forget and again, we're remembering this covenant and these failures.
12:56 There's an end section where he has a failure after the victory and it's actually in chapter eight. If you go to Judges 8:22 through 28, this is where Gideon's growing up, time goes on, he's won some battles, people are starting to follow him. They say, hey, will you be our king? Rule over us, is what he says. He even uses his covenant words and he's like, well, the Lord will rule over you. And you're like, good for you, Gideon. He's got it. And then keep reading because you see he's big fat liar at this point. He's starting to fall. So let's go down to ... I know, spoiler ... I told you this is where you're going to see they're all going to have a hard time. He says, I won't rule over you and I love it. And my son will not rule over you.
13:40 Do you guys know what his son's name is, by the way? His son's name is Abimelech. My father is King. I'm not even making that up. I will not rule over you and nor will my son. Have you met my son? What's your son's name? My dad is the king. Yes, I don't know why he got that name. So weird. So weird. And then he does. So Gideon does get very proud and he rules over them. Again, there's a lot of irony and satire and you're supposed to start seeing it. Go down to verse 24 and it says, again, I'm in 8:24. Gideon said to them, no, no, we won't rule and nor will my son, but instead, let's do this other thing. This is going to be such a good idea. You'll love it. Bring me a gold earring from the spoils from this army. And then again, the enemy had these earrings, you know, has to tell you a little aside and the Ishmaelites used to have these.
14:31 Now, not even the Midianites, different group. So they're just battling away. Then he says, And we will willingly give them. He holds out his coat and they all throw their gold earrings in. He gets a gazillion of them and then he makes an ephod, a covenantal spiritual device. He puts it and then they worship it. No, no, don't, I will not rule over you, but instead I will make a spiritual counterfeit and you can worship it and you're supposed to go, wait a minute, what? His pride, his power, money now are in the way. Again, I already told you they're going to fail so only pretty much Deborah doesn't. Here's Gideon's downfall. We know the serious stories, but remember, spiritual action is not an inoculation. We have to keep choosing the covenant and covenant is something we do. So you're thinking it's going to be great with this mighty man of valor and he was, and if only we could have ended there.
Hank Smith: 15:32 What is it? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Dr. Lori Denning: 15:36 Yeah. And remember, that's the snare that they will lift up their heads. It says lift up and they will make a collar that they're going to be trapped.
Hank Smith: 15:44 I don't want to be king. Come here, king's son.
Dr. Lori Denning: 15:49 My dad, what's your son's name? My father is king, of course. Don't worship me. Worship this thing I made at my house.
John Bytheway: 15:57 Out of earrings.
Dr. Lori Denning: 15:59 Yeah, out of earrings, out of gold under. All right, there's a spiritual experience, a calling, a spiritual moment, a testimony, roles that we have that become the golden calf, or in this case, the golden ephod that we make when we start worshiping the container instead of the Lord. When we aren't working forward in our covenants and doing the things, then we start to fade. Judges are saying, look covenant people. Don't do what we did. Remember the Lord and keep your covenants by doing the things and don't fall into these snares because they're all around you. Again, it's not battles that they fail in. It's things they put their foot or their neck right into. They step into it willingly. Don't let that happen to you.
Hank Smith: 16:46 It's a different kind of enemy. Pride, money, power. And I bet you guys are going to be shocked as soon as Gideon's dead, the children of Israel turned again.
Dr. Lori Denning: 16:57 What?
Hank Smith: 16:58 I know. I know. This is surprising at this point.
John Bytheway: 17:00 It's like a broken record.
Dr. Lori Denning: 17:02 Luckily, the text is going to have us jump to Samson. Gideon's one of the longest and then Samson's the next longest, and it's going to follow the same beats we call it. The same steps of an advantage in the Lord and a heavenly visitor and all these things and then it just goes downhill super fast. Let's go to 13. Let's jump to the story of Samson and it's about four chapters long and it starts with an easily skip chapter, but we're not going to, because it's my favorite one, chapter 13, lucky 13 in Judges.
Hank Smith: 17:30 Chapter 13. I don't know if you guys have ever heard this, but it's breaking news. Guess how chapter 13 starts?
Dr. Lori Denning: 17:40 They were doing a really good job. Were they doing a good job?
Hank Smith: 17:42 The children of Israel
Dr. Lori Denning: 17:43 They're really obedient.
Hank Smith: 17:43 Were doing righteousness in this. Just kidding. The children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord. Shocking, I know.
Dr. Lori Denning: 17:54 Shocking. And again, if you read chapter two, you would know that it's all going to end poorly. Like it's spoiler alert. This isn't one where you're waiting to find out. You're like, ah. So we ended on Gideon and he was naughty and then there are some other people in here, his father and then Jephthah and they all do evil again. And then here we are. We're going to do something interesting with the story of Samson. It's the longest narrative he is definitely the main character, but I want to share some other things that I think will be helpful about this chapter that you might not have seen before, mostly because this is where my dissertation is. But I think some of it's really interesting to covenant people. There's some interesting insights here. But the first chapter is not one to be skipped and it's often skipped because it's about his mom and his dad.
18:42 Now, his mom doesn't have a name. She's just called the woman of Manoah or wife, just like the woman of Lapidoth. Woman and wife is the same in Hebrew, so you have to take it in context. But I think they're going to keep calling her this for importance. She's anonymous, not because she's diminished, but because she is a type of someone that we can see in ourselves. Verse two of chapter 13 starts with, And there was a certain man of Zorah, and he was from this tribe, and his name was Manoah. This is going to be Samson's dad, Manoah. Now he is named, but then it's the wife of Manoah because it's going to be the mom. So you think, oh, that's going to be the hero, because usually when the deliverer is announced, it starts that way. There was a person and they were from this tribe and their name was blah.
19:26 And you're like, Oh, it's the next person. That's not the next person. He's not a hero. It flips and it goes to, And the wife was barren and she had born no children. And you're like, Wait, what? We just took a left turn. Then an angel shows up and says to her, You are barren and you've had no children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. Now, Bible scholars, have you ever heard a story about a couple who was barren and could not have a child and an angel shows up and says, Hey, even though you're barren, you could have a child. Can you think of any such story in scripture?
Hank Smith: 20:04 That would be Abraham and Sarah.
Dr. Lori Denning: 20:07 Abraham and Sarah, very good. And then even the story Rebekah, they have a hard time having children and then they have two children. Even Rachel and Leah, Rachel can't have a son and says, You go have a son. And then there's another Hannah in the next book for Samuel is the second wife. She can't have a child and so she goes to the temple and then there's another one called the Shunamite Widow because she doesn't have a name that she comes and Elisha the prophet comes and tells her then John the Baptist and then Mary. This pattern is something that as scholars we call a type scene. It's a whole scene, a whole event that seems to be a pattern. If you've read a lot of the Old Testament, you'll see there are a lot of these where you're like, wait, didn't that story just happen?
20:51 They're a convention we would call them like a trope in movies where you're like, oh, it's a romcom or it's a drama. And the same elements happen. In this type scene, there are three main elements. A woman who is barren and a spiritual messenger comes to tell them and then they will have a special son. Those are the three steps. You look for what's called the tilt or the twist, Robert Alter, my spirit animal, calls it the tilt. So it's where it's interesting in the stories because if you told the same events exactly the same in the patterns, it doesn't really teach you anything. So it seems like the Lord is using these patterns in our lives to teach us something and he does it where it's different. It's a pattern that the Lord uses to teach us something about how he's going to work in their life.
21:36 He shows up to what we think is going to be the deliverer, then we meet the mom. She's barren. We don't know anything about them being old. Then he comes and he speaks to her and then there's a lot of information about her and this baby and that's going to be the twist. Now, before I tell you what it is, we'll just do a little quiz. When we started this podcast, we talked about a chapter that had a theme about people who were part of the covenant and what were they going to do. We'll see if you can see what the parallel is between chapter two and chapter 13. John, give it to us. What did the Lord tell them that he would never do? I would never do in chapter two.
John Bytheway: 22:28 He would never break the covenant.
Dr. Lori Denning: 22:30 Okay, don't know if that's a clue, could be a clue. But then let's read what happens. Let's go to 13 and let's do three. We'll go three through five and it's going to be the story of this special son and we're looking for how that's similar to what John just said.
John Bytheway: 22:46 Okay. I'm still in NRSV and the angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, although you are barren, having borne no children, you shall conceive and bear a son. Now be careful not to drink wine or strong drink or to eat anything unclean, for you shall conceive and bear a son. No razor is to come on his head for the boy shall be a Nazarite. To God from birth, it is he who shall begin to deliver Israel from the hand of the Philistines.
Dr. Lori Denning: 23:18 Okay. Story's kind of the same as what we know. There's a woman who's barren. We don't know why, but they don't have a child. We know she has a husband so we don't know why they're barren, but then an angel shows up and says, You're going to have a special son. We're not surprised that this boy's going to be the deliverer, but we are surprised about something else. It says, Don't let him drink and don't shave his hair, no razor, because he will be a Nazarite. Now, that's not something we hear a ton about and he's one of the famous of a Nazarite. Do you guys know what it is? Anybody know what that is or where that comes from or anything about it?
John Bytheway: 23:54 It means one that's separated or consecrated. It's not Nazareth.
Dr. Lori Denning: 23:58 It's separated and consecrated for something. Excellent.
Hank Smith: 24:03 So you could take Nazarite vows for a specific period of time. It doesn't have to be your whole life. It can be, I'm going to take this vow for however long.
Dr. Lori Denning: 24:13 Men and women can do it and it's usually a special covenant that men or women take and they covenant to separate themselves for a certain period of time, like 30 days. They would vow to do a number of things. They wouldn't cut their hair. They wouldn't be near any alcohol or grape or even like raisins or anything like that. Then they wouldn't be around a dead thing. So they're going to be like priests that way, that they're not going to be near something dead. And then at the end of the vow, you would cut your hair and you would offer it on the altar. For those of you who are watching online, I don't know, this is super nerdy, but here's a nerdy fact. Do you remember the last time what my hair was like last time I was on the show? Two years ago?
John Bytheway: 24:55 You had a helmet on, I think.
Dr. Lori Denning: 24:57 I had a helmet, that is correct. Was it long or short? Do you remember?
Hank Smith: 25:00 It was short.
Dr. Lori Denning: 25:01 It was short. Yeah. I had short hair. I have been growing out my hair for two years since I've been writing my dissertation on Samson Cycle. Yeah. Except for my bangs because I couldn't pull it off. I didn't take a vow, but I have been growing it out. So that is why my hair is long because I mean, how often can you say that you grew your hair out like Samson?
Hank Smith: 25:18 Yeah. Right? You're really getting into this dissertation.
Dr. Lori Denning: 25:23 I am giving it my all my very hair, but that's what he's doing too. Now here's where I think this is important, not just because it's nerdy and cool, but the mother is also going to obey it while he's in the womb. Before she's even conceived him, she is going to live the Nazarite vow. She's never released from it either that we know of. What group of people in the book of Judges are set apart even before born are born under the covenant?
Hank Smith: 25:51 He's a symbol of the house of Israel.
Dr. Lori Denning: 25:53 That's right. He's Israel. He's us. We're Israel. Before we're even born, for most of us, or we've chosen, we are Israel. So he is a symbol, he's the super-covenant guy. The reason he's a Nazarite is because that idea, again, what John said, I will never break my covenant, but you will. What are we going to see him do? Break it. He's going to break every element. Every one of them, from what we can tell. If you're supposed to do these things, he does all of them. And we all know the hair one because the show or the movies are like his famous thing. But he also gets around dead things. He's going to go to a lion and he's going to put honey in this lion's carcass and then he's even going to give it to his parents, which just kind of contaminates them for holiness.
26:38 Then he's going to go to a party. The party is actually called a drinking party. It doesn't show him drinking, but even going there potentially because it says not even wine skins or vinegar, like not even sour grapes or grape juice. He shouldn't even get close to this stuff. And then what does he do? Like, and then he's like, And you shouldn't marry the Philistines and what's the first thing he's going to do? Let's marry a Philistine. I mean, he's just terrible. But again, he's not Samson in the story in a way. He's Israel. He's us. You were supposed to be my special covenant people and you broke everything. And I love this one little aside just because I love the mom. She recognizes the angel right away. She's out by herself. She's out in a field. She's out working. So we met Gideon. He was out in a field and an angel showed up. Now, here's another person out in the field and an angel shows up and you're like, this is going to end like the Gideon story. And it is. John, do you have verse six?
John Bytheway: 27:38 Then the woman came and told her husband, A man of God came to me and his appearance was like that of an angel of God, most awe inspiring. I did not ask of him where he came from and he did not tell me his name.
Dr. Lori Denning: 27:53 That's it. Now something you lose, not in the Hebrew and a lot in the English is it sounds like very calm. Instead, it's going to do a thing that's called parataxis, and parataxis is when it doesn't conclude, it just keeps going, and, and, and. If you've ever met a toddler who's very excited about a story, they use parataxis. And he went here and then Santa came and then the party came and then the whatever. That's parataxis. So it's stumbling on each other and that's how she reads it. Let me read it. She has this angel come. Then she runs to tell Manoah. And she told her husband, A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like that of an angel and it was awe, and it was like awesome and I didn't ask his name and I didn't even ask him where he's from. And then he said to me, Oh, you're going to conceive and to not drink thing and not do this and he's going to be a Nazarite da, da, da. And you're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa. Whoa, whoa.
Hank Smith: 28:46 Slow down, slow down.
Dr. Lori Denning: 28:48 It's very exciting. When you read it in King James and whatever, it separates them and then and but ... No, she's stumbling over her words. What it's showing us is a covenant woman who sees and recognizes that angel. She knows that this is who this is and it's only done contrasted by her husband. So let's read about him just so you see the difference. Verse eight. She runs and repeats the whole story. We're going to have a baby and he's going to be special. And I didn't even ask that angel. It was so cool. And then it's, And so, and it's going to slow down and we're going to meet Manoah, the husband. So let's read it. Verse eight.
John Bytheway: 29:29 Then Manoah entreated the Lord and said, Oh Lord, I pray. Let the man of God whom you sent come to us again and teach us what we are to do concerning the boy who will be born.
Dr. Lori Denning: 29:39 You guys, she just saw an angel and he's like, I better pray about that. God, did you tell us about a baby? Okay. And you're like, All right, maybe not bad. I guess that's okay. And then the next verse, God listened to Manoah and the angel comes again to whom?
John Bytheway: 29:57 The woman.
Dr. Lori Denning: 29:58 The woman. And where is she again?
John Bytheway: 30:01 In the field.
Dr. Lori Denning: 30:03 Working. Where's he? No idea. You're going to see this irony that she's the one that sees and recognizes the angel. She's this one that is active and breathless and he's the one like, we better pray about that. And then he says, What should we do? And the angel shows up and says, back to the woman who gets it and says, your husband isn't even there. So she runs and gets her husband. And then she says, The man who came to me the other day, he's appeared and Manoah got up and he follows his wife and they go out. And what does he say? Are you the man? Yes. He says, Yeah, I'm the man. She didn't ask who you are. She knew immediately it was an angel, a man of God, a messenger. He's like, Are you the guy? The guy he'd been praying for.
30:50 The guy she said was the angel. So she goes, Hey, come with me. Are you the man? I am. Manoah says, When the stuff you promised us come true, what are we supposed to do with him again? You can almost hear the angel sigh. Well, the same thing, listen to what your woman said, and then goes through the list of the Nazarite vow. Then Manoah says, Well, maybe we can make a meal for you. And the angel's like, Well, I can't eat that food. We're going to do it anyway. And Manoah's just the slowest dude ever. By the way, Samson takes after his dad, he's very slow. So he goes and he makes it and then the angel, I can't eat your food. And then it goes up into flames and the angel goes up and the Manoah says, Oh no, that was an angel.
31:40 We might die. And the wife's like, You silly goose, we would've died, he wouldn't have asked us. Forget it. Forget it. I can't even help you. The end. That's my version of the woman of Manoah. That's right. Yeah. But remember, it's about covenant Israel. She recognizes and they use a lot of sensory terms, right? She sees and she hears. She sees that it's the angel. She hears his message and Manoah doesn't and her voice is active. His name also comes from the word Noah, if you know that term and it means rest or idleness. I call him Mr. Lazybones. So there was a man and his name was Mr. Lazybones and he's never in the field working and he's slow to figure it out and he doesn't recognize the spiritual messenger and he doesn't hear the message and he has to be repeated over and over again.
32:37 He's covenant Israel or us at times. We don't always get it and then here comes the wife. Oh, wow. I've had the spiritual experience. And he's like, That's interesting. She's like excited and stumbling and he's like, No, what do you think we should do with the boy? All the stuff that I just told you, all the stuff you just told me. So like the Nazarite stuff, I wonder, that's a really good idea. It's a beautiful story about the covenant all in one. It's a story about a person who hears doing their daily work and steps up when the Lord is in their life, a person who gets the call and runs to action. She is one of the unsung heroes of scripture. This woman has an angel come to her, she recognizes and she lives as a Nazarite as well. Pretty cool.
33:28 It's a great story. One thing that scripture does is it doesn't always use anonymity being anonymous as diminishing. Instead, what it does is it allows them to be universal or we can see ourselves in them. Anonymity doesn't mean that they're less. Oh, this is a woman we don't name them. It means we can see ourselves in them, right? It's not the guy in my ward that we all know and then we discount it because he's a guy we know. It's like, Wait a minute, that could be me, or she could be a type of a faithful saint, men and women. Just be really cautious when we say, Well, the women aren't named as much because a lot of the men aren't named in this story either. They use it as a tool so we can see ourselves in the story.
Hank Smith: 34:14 You told it so well. Manoah's like, Wait, what? We could have died.
Dr. Lori Denning: 34:22 We could have died. I can just see her saying, I don't even know what I'm supposed to do with him.
Hank Smith: 34:28 If the Lord was pleased to kill us, he would not have had this entire conversation with us.
Dr. Lori Denning: 34:34 Why would he say we're having a baby and do all this if he was going to kill us?
John Bytheway: 34:37 I don't know.
Hank Smith: 34:39 We shall surely die.
Dr. Lori Denning: 34:41 For the Israelites, it's kind of a condemnation. We don't even see the Lord when he's standing or his messenger sometimes when he's standing right in front of us. Even when miraculous things have happened, what other things do you need? I've already done all this stuff. And yeah, maybe that's us sometimes too, right?
Hank Smith: 34:59 Yeah. Lori, I don't want to move you ahead here, but you listed all these stories, these type, what'd you call them?
Dr. Lori Denning: 35:09 Type scene.
Hank Smith: 35:11 I noticed that out of these, there's someone who is not having a baby, the angel says you're going to have a baby, this'll be his name. They almost always turn out to be incredible people except for this one. Is this a what could've been type of story? Could've been a John the Baptist, a Jesus, an Isaac?
Dr. Lori Denning: 35:33 Yeah, he was supposed to be deliverer and he's the last judge. So he was supposed to be the last judge of his people, yet you know he's going to fail. In the cycle, they tend to be oppressed and then they pray or they cry out. There's no crying out. He also doesn't seem to ever pray the only time he prays twice in the story. Once because he's so thirsty, he might die. Thanks. So it's all about me. Then the next, if you know the story, he's going to be blinded and then he's going to be chained to the pillars next to him at the temple of Dagon, the Philistine God. The only time he prays to God is for vengeance on his eyes. Give me back my strength so I can kill all these people because of what they did to me. He's that covenant person who could have had everything, but he doesn't, he seems to be a tale of the special covenant sons and daughters who could have had the Lord in their life and at any time could have turned and repented, yet didn't.
36:41 And remember, it's a cautionary tale. It does say that the spirit of the Lord came upon him a number of times. He's going to marry a Philistine woman. I want to just call out one thing about her before we go to the Delilah story. Let's go to the next chapter and I just want to call out something that I think our viewers will really hear as covenant people. Let's go to 14:2. Now we're going to be introduced to special son. The next chapter, you turn the page, now it's adult Samson. We're finally introduced to this deliverer. It's Samson. His name means sunny. It means like Shimshon means sunny. Delilah's name sounds like Lila, which means darkness. Now you're meeting sunny. We'll call him Samson. And then verse 14, verse two, and let's hear the first words. Now, let me tell you another literary trick. We don't always learn a lot about the backstory of characters.
37:30 Now we just did with Samson, but for a lot of them, we don't know that much about them. I've said if they describe anything about their physical characteristics important to the story, that is true. And his story is he's going to be very strong. But here's another thing that you can learn about the backstory. There isn't a lot of backstory, but one of them is the first spoken words by a character often reveal their inner nature. The first spoken words by a character in the Old Testament can often be their inner character. They reveal who they really are. So these are going to be Samson's first words. All right. John, do you have it? 14:2.
John Bytheway: 38:05 Yeah. 14:2. Then he came up and told his father and mother, I saw a Philistine woman at Timnath. Now get her for me as my wife.
Dr. Lori Denning: 38:15 Hmm, so delightful. He says, I saw a Philistine woman. Philistines, covenant people, non-covenant people?
Hank Smith: 38:24 Non-covenant.
Dr. Lori Denning: 38:25 Non-covenant people. And you'll remember that with David and Goliath. There's the Philistines. They're the ultimate bad guys. The Philistines bad guys. So if he's going to be the special covenant son and the very first thing he says is, I can't wait to get married, and will you go get that Philistine wife for me? Is he being very true to the covenant?
Hank Smith: 38:48 He does not care about the covenant at all.
Dr. Lori Denning: 38:50 Yeah, he doesn't at all. In fact, he's aligning himself. He's marrying. Now, he uses two verbs here that you might not catch. In the NRSV, it translates one of them. I would translate it differently. I saw ... Now it's called taking a wife. So he says, I saw and I took. Now that's what we call a motif for a pattern that runs throughout scripture. It's used a number of other times. David sees and takes Bathsheba. One of his sons sees and takes the spoils. Instead of waiting for the Lord to give us things, we see it and we take it. Not only is the first thing I want a wife of the Philistines, but I saw it and I want you to take it. Like, how's that going to work out? As you can guess, not very well. They end up burning her to death. So not great.
39:48 The first thing we're learning about this covenant son is that he's fairly far removed from his covenant obedience. I saw I took, and you're like, Oh, no. And I want to take what? A Philistine wife. I want to marry outside the covenant. And his parents show back up here and they're like, Are you sure? Are you sure you want to do that? I always think of him as kinda oogabooga talker, like, rah, rah, I just want it. Give it to me. He's kind of a big dumb guy. He's like, Yeah, get her for me because she pleases me. Then it has this little aside, but his father and his mother didn't know it was from the Lord for she was seeking a pretext to act against the Philistines. Anytime you get a narrative aside like that, Mormon does it all the time in the Book of Mormon, but you know, it doesn't happen very much in the Old Testament.
40:32 It happens because it's weird. It's telling you that the covenant son should not be asking for it. This is bad. If you were reading this as an ancient person, you'd be like, What, what? Did he just ask for a Philistine wife? And they're like, Yeah, we know. That's really terrible. It's an aside and it was really terrible, but God's going to work it out so just hold on. And you're like, Okay, because that seems pretty bad. And he's a Nazarite and you're like, I know, I know. It's bad. Just hold on. And then he goes on and then it doesn't end well with the wife. He leaves her, he poses a stupid riddle to his friends, it's not even a riddle. He kills a lion. Then he comes and he poses a riddle to the Philistines. Hey, if you can tell me what the riddle is, I'll get you 13 sets of armor, 13 expensive pairs of clothing.
41:19 They're like, Okay, I guess. And he goes, If not, I'll kill you. And they're like, I guess we're playing this game. So, fun game, fun wedding party game. Yeah? And so he comes and he says, you've probably seen this. It's a little poem that he says, Out of the eater came something to eat and out of the strong came something sweet. Now remember, he kills a lion and then when he walks back through town, he sees that bees have made a hive in there and so there's honey. Out of the eater, a lion's an eater, or it may come something to eat, honey, but out of the strong, you know, the lion saying something sweet. It's not really a riddle. Like you would have to know that there was a lion on the road that he killed. They don't, they don't get it.
42:01 So they go to his wife, tell us what it is or we'll burn you with fire. This is serious. So she is panicked. No matter what she answers, she's in trouble. The man who's supposed to protect her, her husband is a threat. If she doesn't tell, her people will kill her. So this poor woman. She's like, You don't love me, tell me the answer. Finally, she, we say it's nagging, but I think it's like survival. She says, Okay, she wept for seven days. He finally tells her. Then, Hey, do you know the poem? And they're like, Yeah, it's because you slept with my wife. So they burn her anyway. The end. Then he goes to a prostitute, good work and there's no speaking. This is just I've crossed over and chooses wrongly and then tears down the gates and runs off with them. So he's violent, it's aggressive, there's no conversation, there's nothing.
42:57 He's just this action guy, but not in a good way. So he goes to a prostitute. He goes from being covenant son on the border to completely gone at this point. Now something's going to happen. When we turn to this second half of this chapter where he goes to Delilah, he's already fairly corrupt. Delilah doesn't corrupt him. She just shows what's already happened. It doesn't ever say Delilah's a Philistine, but the Philistines do pay her a large amount of money to say, find out what his secret is. Why is he so strong? Delilah's story's probably the most famous of all stories in the book of Judges. It's usually told like she's bewitching him or beguiling him or seducing him, but you've already seen he was already there. Let's go to the story. I want to point out just a couple of things. It starts in verse four. It's something interesting the verb is going to change, how it describes what he does with this woman. So John, do you have verse four?
John Bytheway: 43:55 Yeah. After this, he fell in love with a woman in the valley of Sorek, whose name was Delilah.
Dr. Lori Denning: 44:02 He fell in love with a woman. Now, love typically in the Old Testament doesn't mean passionate, romantic love, oh, if it did. But there is a commandment that uses this word. You might have heard it because I believe it's one of the main commandments. You shall love the Lord your God. What's love typically associated with? Covenant. What's the theme of this book? Covenant. I will never break my covenant. What is he doing? I fell in love. I gave my allegiance my love to someone else. She is from a special place, the Valley of Sorek. Well, that's like right downtown Philistineville. He's now on the border, Timnah. He's crossed over and her name was Darkness. Hmm. I wonder how this story's going to end up. He's going to be blind and in darkness. Because he fell in love. He's completely gone by the time he gets there.
45:02 He gives his love to her. Don't think this is a romantic story. This is a covenant failure story. So they say, Find out what his strength is. And then there are these four instances where he lays in her lap and the Philistines are in the room, by the way. They're right there. Like he knows exactly what's going on. They say, Subdue him and we'll give you a gazillion dollars. She says, You know, tell me your strength. And then he goes through and he says, You know, if they do this thing with bow strings, I'll be weak. And then the Philistines brought her the bow strings and they tied him up. And then I love this. This is where it says they're there. And the men were in wait in the inner chamber. And they're like, Okay, we're here. And then she says, The Philistines are upon you, Samson.
45:48 And he goes... And he tears through them. Now he's going to do it three more times and it's going to get closer and closer to the truth. So the first time it's bow strings. The second time, it's new rope. The third time weave my hair. Okay. We're getting close to the secret. The secret was his hair can't be cut. Now, who had the secret about his hair? Do you remember who was told about his hair?
Hank Smith: 46:17 His mom.
Dr. Lori Denning: 46:17 It was his mom. The only people that know the secret covenant are the mothers. We don't hear when he hears it, but he gives it to another woman. He's giving his love, his allegiance, his covenant. The covenant's secret is never spoken to Manoah. And in fact, it's only spoken to the mom because you're supposed to remember it. Then he finally says, Well, it's my hair, but it's tied. And they're like, Okay, no, version three. And then finally in four, the fourth time, It's my hair. I've never had my hair shaven. That's the Nazarite covenant. Well, she has a man shave him. She doesn't even do it. Remember the mothering theme that we've seen? It's like an anti-mother. His head is on her lap. She shaves him. They're going to blind him. He becomes weak, and then it says, The spirit of the Lord left him and he did not know.
47:10 He doesn't even know that his strength has left. He becomes like a baby again. He's blind, bald, weak in a woman's lap. It's not the mother of Israel. It's the Delilah, the anti-mother. He becomes trapped. Then I think that line where it says that he didn't know. Verse 20. She says the last time the Philistines are upon you Samson. When he awoke from his sleep, he thought, I will go out as the other times and shake myself free. But he did not know that the Lord had left him. That's the cautionary tale. Don't give up the covenant because then the Lord, and you don't even know, he doesn't even recognize that he's given it up. That's where they seize him, they gouge out his eyes and then they bring him in shackles and he becomes just a millstone. Then of course it grows back and that's where he is going to go to the party.
48:12 His hair's grown back. He's still blind and he asks the boy that's like walking him along because he's blind. Well, chain me to the pillars. So they chain his hands out to the pillars. And then this is where he prays one of the only times. Lord, remember me and strengthen me with this one act of revenge that I may pay back the Philistines for my eyes. He's not praying for his people. He's not praying for repentance. He tears it down and kills them all, which does help his people because the enemies are defeated, but not because he cared about his people. See all the elements of your parents were there, you were a special child, you had the covenant, you had the spirit of the Lord, you had your special strength. You just gave it away first. It was the dead thing. Then you were at the alcoholic party. Then you did all the covenants that you were given you walked away from. Then you didn't even care in the end. You didn't even know that the spirit of the Lord had left you. You're so far removed. It's a terrible cautionary tale to us as covenant people that the Lord is saying, You are my covenant people. But John, do you remember the first thing the Lord taught us in chapter two?
John Bytheway: 49:28 Yeah, I do. But I will never break my covenant with you.
Dr. Lori Denning: 49:34 Yeah. We can always return. We can always come back. He's waiting for us to extend his hand to come back. There's one last line in the whole book of Judges that sums it up. It doesn't say he's ever redeemed. He does put him in Hebrews 11 in the hall of heroes, but I think it's because the Lord keeps using these people, keeps using them even though they're weak rather than they did such a good job. Let's go to the very last verse though, and this is where it ends very sadly on a very strong and cautionary tale. It's the last verse Judges 21:25.
John Bytheway: 50:12 Judges 21:25. In those days, there was no king in Israel. All the people did what was right in their own eyes.
Dr. Lori Denning: 50:21 Who's the true king they should be following? They were doing whatever they wanted to do. It ends on that, and then you turn the page, you go, well, that was very sad. That was terrible.
Hank Smith: 50:32 It's a Shakespearian tragedy.
Dr. Lori Denning: 50:35 Yeah, womp, womp. But we're covenant people and it isn't the wars that we fight. It's the snares. It's the altars that we don't tear down in our lives. The Lord's like, I will never break my covenant. You can always come back. I am your king. You can follow me, and none of these things need to happen. That's, I think, the message of Judges. The Lord will deliver his people. The end.
Hank Smith: 51:00 I can tell when I've had a good day is that my hand is tired from writing. I have so many notes. I didn't have a lot of notes in Judges before this.
John Bytheway: 51:12 Yeah, me too. I wrote a lot of new things.
Dr. Lori Denning: 51:14 Ah, you guys are cute.
John Bytheway: 51:16 But it's kind of sad, yeah. What do we do with it?
Dr. Lori Denning: 51:21 We learn from it. And I think you can, I love that each of the Judges, even Samson at times, he has this great strength and this powerful parents. The Spirit is still with him at times, that there's still hope that they can return and there are times when the Lord steps in and saves them. The Lord is telling us, I'm right there all along. Just need to turn back to me. So it doesn't need to end this way. There's a lot of hope even though this book doesn't seem like it. You have to tear down the altars, the stumbling blocks in your life. You cannot just step into these snares. You cannot invite this stuff in your life and then hope it works out. It won't. And then if we're not worried about that, it's trying to tell us you should be. But there's hope. The Lord can be your king and he will never break his covenant. It's just hope laced with a lot of sadness. A lot of caution. And again, the last chapters are very gruesome and definitely not for children. There's an assault and some different things. It's not one that you're going to want to read 17 through 19 with your family unless you read it first adults. So please know that it just goes worse from here, but it is not a tale for children.
Hank Smith: 52:37 I like warning signs. I've been in many places where I've seen a warning sign and looked and thought, no, I'm not going to go over there. If you ever see one of those electric fences, the ones that can really like kill you, there's a warning sign like every six feet. That's like the book of Judges. Don't do this. Don't go this way.
Dr. Lori Denning: 52:57 I've seen it at the beach as well where it's like, no swimming. There's a rip tide and then the people will be swimming and you're like, hmm. Or I've seen it on mountain sides where it's like, don't ski down this cliff. There's always someone that they were towed out to sea or they went off the cliff and you're like, why did they go past that sign?
Hank Smith: 53:17 The book of Judges can be a big warning sign, yeah. Your story does not have to end this way. You can choose.
Dr. Lori Denning: 53:24 I will raise up a prophet and you can ask the prophet to go with you and you can have friends and family that will support you and you can always turn back. There is hope. He does have a path in here for us. It's just one that he wants to be sure we're really clear as covenant people that we follow him.
John Bytheway: 53:42 Did you hear how she ended with, we follow him? Did you catch that? That was good. Good job, Lori.
Hank Smith: 53:47 Oh, by the way, Lori, almost every woman in this book is good.
Dr. Lori Denning: 53:52 There are some good ones. I think the women are trying to be a little bit of narrative markers where they can choose to follow the covenant or not. There are about 22 women, 22 named and unnamed women in the book. Caleb's daughter is in it right in the beginning and then woman of Manoah, Deborah, Jael. So a lot of great covenant people and excellent heroines that we sometimes miss. But there's some good guys in there too, but there's some great women in this story.
Hank Smith: 54:23 John Bytheway, if you want to have a fun time in the scriptures, you read them with Lori Denning. You learn and you laugh.
Dr. Lori Denning: 54:30 Wait, I got to put the hat back on.
Hank Smith: 54:32 Yeah.
John Bytheway: 54:32 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Put the helmet of feathers back on. She said something at the beginning that I think she was joking. Who knows more about the book of Judges than this guest we've had today?
Dr. Lori Denning: 54:44 There are two of us now and I'm one of them. Not many people have studied this book.
John Bytheway: 54:49 Yeah.
Dr. Lori Denning: 54:49 I don't know why, but-
John Bytheway: 54:50 You have a PhD in Judges.
Dr. Lori Denning: 54:52 Just the back half of Judges.
Hank Smith: 54:55 One of my favorite things as a young seminary teacher was when someone like Lori would come and teach us and we would spend hours and I would walk away with these kind of notes in my scriptures where there's just no way I could know all this, but to have someone guide you through it and to do it in such a fun way, Lori, we're grateful for your talents. Thank you for being with us today.
Dr. Lori Denning: 55:18 Well, thanks. It is a challenge to make this a spiritual story, but I'm grateful that the Lord cautions us and loves us and welcomes us back with open arms. When you need a fleece, he's there to give it. When you need a mother in Israel, she's there. You need a Joash who will step in the gap. They're there too. And it's got some powerful messages of the Lord's love for us and our covenant strength that we can do if we just tap into it. But I get it. It's kind of a terrible story. So I get it if it's not your favorite book. It's not typically everyone's favorite book, but it could be.
Hank Smith: 55:48 But pay attention to the caution signs. They're very important. They can keep you safe. With that, we want to thank Dr. Lori Denning for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen and every episode we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you'll join us next week. We're into the book of Ruth on followHIM. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we'd love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.co, that's followhim.co to download your free copy today and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our followHIM family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwika, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen.
