1 Corinthians Discussion | Chapter 2 | Jamey, Jodi, Mike, & Shaun

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Transcript

World Cup Talk And Warm Open

0:13

What's happening, gang? Here we are, chapter two of First Corinthians. And we've got a whole new crew in here, other than Pastor Jamie. He was part of chapter one. We've got Mike in here with us and Jody straight out of straight out of the Mission Cup. Straight out of Mission Cup. I feel nervous sitting with you guys. This is like a new My daughter asked me today as she was studying for VBS this morning. She said, Dad, what's the World Cup? Exactly. Honey. Don't tell your pastor that. It's because it's famous in the world, not in the United States. Very true. Yeah, it's mostly because by the age of six, most everybody's played soccer, but we found out at six who would not be good at it. So they go to football at that point. Or hand egg, as I call it. What is it? Hand egg. Because it's not a ball and it's you don't use your feet. Yeah. So that sounds like Jerry Seinfeld needs to do a stick about that. That's right up his alley. Trevor Burrus, Jr. That's very true. Driveway. Why are you called driveway when you park and you are still when I was in Brazil, they were always telling me, you guys don't play football. We play football. You guys play, you know, that's not football. Is football even a thing outside of like it is, right? A thing outside of America or not really? No. No. What what happened? Like what does anybody know the backstory? Like why all of a sudden football and not soccer is so is soccer older than football? Yeah. It's created in England. England. Right, there you go. Just like baseball and football. Americans did. Basketball. That makes sense. Innovative. It's crazy because most of the MBA stars that are foreign, that's what they played. Like the guy from the Bucks, you know, they're all they're all soccer players. Soccer players. Really? Yeah. What if baseball was a form of cricket? Came from the influence of cricket. It's great thought. Maybe anyway. We like to create our own things. Yeah. That's for sure. Hey, I've got this great idea.

Setting Up First Corinthians Chapter Two

2:24

Good bad and right between 1 Corinthians chapter 2. I think this might be like I I don't know for sure, but obviously there's only 16 verses that it was chapter one, too. But like it seems like I've been doing all my wife's videos, so I'm like, it's like these these are the shorter chapters and so, you know, kind of thing. You did this probably. Or did you do it? I had chapter two. Yeah, you did evens, right? That's all right. I did the evens. Did you listen to the podcast from last week? I did. Oh awesome. I'll just make sure, because we kind of introduced that. Yeah, I sure did. I'm I apologize. On your Wednesday night teaching, she was odd you're even. Yes. And I could not, when we were gathered for She Wakes um podcast, I could not recover the words This is life podcasts. This is life. This is life. Well, I think that's a good thing. This is what we're on right now. I think that Kelly was uh was referring to the podcast I used to do with Pastor Jamie, like after each message, and we were we called it life lessons with Pastor Jen. I think that's what you guys were aiming for, but like you were a little confused between this is life, life's lessons, and it was all it was it was cute. And so and Mateo was like right there. Yep. That was it. You want to made a phone and this is not right. This is not right. And so all right, guys, where do we want to get started? I got some we got a lot of wisdom in this room here. And so uh where are we professorship? Where are we launching related to the where are we launching here with uh first Corinthians chapter two? Like anything background you want to talk about? Is there a a vo a verse that you want to highlight? Like uh what is it you want? I've got I've got questions if if that works too, but like I just thought we'd start with there. I'd like to hear from Jody. Okay, just because chapter two is your thing.

Why The Cross Was Public Shame

4:06

Yeah. Okay, well, here's what I picked up. So in chapter one, he mentions the cross, and then in chapter two, he mentions the cross. So in one verse uh twenty two, Paul is talking and he says, Jews demand signs, Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, which is stumbling block to Jews and his foolishness to Gentiles. Well, then in two, verse two, he says, for I resolve. So he said, Listen, when I came to you guys, I didn't come with eloquence or human wisdom, which is how the rhetoricians of the day were coming. Like they were polished speakers, Apollos, one of them. And so Paul was not like that. And he came and he resolved to know nothing except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And when I was looking into that, and you know, I thought it was I just kind of marveled that back then Christ and Christ crucified was sort of an embarrassment. And then today, Christ and Christ crucified is also like, but in that day, people were still being crucified. And so this is an honor shame culture. And so to be crucified is very dishonoring. And so when I was studying for chapter two, Cicero, which you probably heard of, the Roman senator, the orator, he talks about how disgraceful being crucified is. And he's like, we need to erase those words from our vocabulary. These are his words. The very word cross should be removed, not only from Roman citizens, but even the thought from our eyes, our ears. Like, we want to know nothing about crucifixion. And Paul's like, no, this is central, Christ and him crucified. Like, I will not be ashamed of that. And so, like, now we're not seeing those literal figures hung on crosses, but still, I mean, I know for me, I am always venturing like with God. People are open to God, they'll talk to God, my Jewish clients will talk about God, but Christ and Christ crucified, now you're gonna get people stumbling.

Weakness As Strategy Not Accident

6:17

Yeah. Well, I think like the thing that Paul had that I think which was his greatest asset was his his testimony, you know, of like who he used to be. That's excellent. And so then it's like I don't I don't need to to do what everybody else is doing. I I don't need to be polished in this area, or as Kelly brought up even yesterday. I think, you know, maybe Paul, is he a little guy? Short. Is he short? Is he, you know, you know, well, and some are even saying like when he says he comes with fear and trembling and weakness, like some spectac you know, commentators are like he probably was not a good speaker. Yeah, so what do you guys think about that? Like, was it because like I mean I've heard people say like it's because he was physically ill, or was it because he was like intimid, not intimidated, because obviously I mean we we we read about Paul and other places where he's speaking, and he is a great communicator. Yeah. He actually is has a very theological mind, yet he is he choosing to to not move in that direction here with the Corinthians because of their background already? I think so. It seems like that. Sometimes he's giving himself distance to communicate these things and not saying them face to face, almost kind of like our keyboard commentators who are like so bold in their letters. Um but then at other times we do see him eloquent in Greece, in Athens. He makes this great speech, you know. So it's definitely choices. For sure. I I do like what uh Pastor Jamie, you had hit on because I I uh I thought about this when reading the text, like that he for those of us that like get the like, well, I'm scared to share the gospel, I don't know what to say. I I don't know how to like rightly divide it. So most of the time when I'm reading it, I'm having a hard time understanding myself, like where he's kind of like, no, no, no, it's not about like how well you communicate it or even how well you can communicate what it means. You Paul, like you just said, he's coming as a witness to share what's happened in his life. You know what I'm saying? Not necessarily like how to break it all down or how to like say it with elegant, eloquent, you know, thoughts and words.

Saying Jesus When God Is Easy

8:21

I mean, we don't talk about this a lot, but like when we planted the church, I remember I remember saying this in in my living room. I'm like, I want us to be people that talk about Jesus. Because at that point it was real twenty, like, love God, serve people, or love God, you know, serve others. And it was like, no, I want Jesus in exists. I want I want to make sure that we're talking about because even at that moment, I I use an example of like, you know, a lot of people say God bless. A lot of people say God bless. I mean, Jay Lennon ended every night with God bless you. Dude. Like, I mean, so it was like, okay, you you say God everywhere, but what would it change if he would say Jesus loves you or Jesus saves at the end of that? I was like, well, now you know that's an offensive, you know. You know, even you know, so what Paul is saying is like, hey, listen, here's what matters most to me. I don't care if you remember me, I don't care if you you think I'm eloquent, here's what I know. Christ is the difference. I don't care if you remember me. Yeah. And these other orators did care about the reputation. But I want to underscore what you said, Pastor Jamie, is that no one can take your story. Like, whatever you're gonna do, and that's why Paul could endorse so much. He knew his story. He's like, oh no, I remember getting knocked off that horse. I remember being blind for days. You can't take that away from me. I know who did it. He spoke to me. Yeah, it it seems easier to process challenging the message, chall chall uh uh communicating the message, communicating the cross, communicating the crucifixion, all that when you just think about sharing it in light of your story. Yes, not somebody else's. Just your story. It's gonna be more authentic. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so, like when you're like when when we have messages on Sunday mornings or Jamie or whoever's talking is talking about going into the world sharing your faith, you know, like focus on you and how it's affected you, uh, not necessarily explaining somebody else's. Well, I think he's seeing he's seeing God move. This is why he says what he does in in the next couple of verses. My message and my preaching were very plain rather than using clever and persuasive speeches. I relied on the power of the Holy Spirit. I did this so that you would trust, not in human wisdom, but in the power of God. So he's seen the power of God move by speaking very plainly. Like I'm I'm not trying to impress you. Right. I'm trying to glorify God. That's that's all it is. And you you can see that, right? You can see like I'm not trying to impress you. Like I I I'm throwing at my side, right? I mean, I prayed for it to go away, and he said, My grace is sufficient. Like, I mean, there's just so much stuff about Paul's story that he's like, this is what you get. I'm not trying to pretend here. No. Amongst pretenders. Amongst pretenders. Yeah. So that's why I think he stood out because everybody else was in a category and then he was in a different one. Which is why I think the church grew. For the people that were like, wow, that that is that is crazy. Like that that is true. How is God moving so powerfully? There's something I need you to trust about him. Yeah.

When A Leader Falls And Faith Holds

11:15

That's good. It reminds me of uh one of my mentors when I was a kid. I was like two years a Christian, you know, so I'm like 14 years old. And uh I was in Royal Rangers for those of us that remember back in the day, the Royal Rangers, you know, shout out to like a program that helped, you know, launch this church, you know, which is wild to me. And because it's just not around that much anymore, you know. Sorry, right? I mean, that's what part of uh I I was in Boy Scouts, and then I got saved, and my dad said, Hey, there's this program, this church called Royal Rangers. It's just like it's just like Boy Scouts, but they have Jesus. I'm like Just like so we moved and we did Royal Rangers, and that was how I started attending this church. And uh, but I remember one of the men there was kind of like the spiritual, he was like the leader, he was like the spiritual leader. He was the quote unquote David Wengey for those of us that are listening and understand that like David Winji's went to kind of start his program way back in the day, most probably won't even know, but and I'll never forget I was over at it, and this guy was like my spiritual father. I was at his house, and I remember coming over and his wife, which is a good friend of mine too, good friend of our families, we knew them very well, he had like completely denounced the faith, like and was was leaving, like walking away. And I remember hearing this as a 14-year-old, like, tell Sean, I mean, this is the tell Sean I'm not available. Right? Like, and I'm in the house hearing this. And I remember like leaving, and one of my pastors came to me, I forget which one, he's like, Hey, are you doing alright? I'm like, Yeah, like it's kind of weird, you know. Like, and what he was asking me was like, No, are you doing like alright spiritually? Like, how do you feel? Like, do you feel like it's dissolved? Basically, he's gonna do you feel like this was fake? Do you feel like it was so weird to me, but hearing this verse, it makes sense. I was like, Well, my faith wasn't based on like him. It was based on an experience I had with Jesus Christ. Like, I'm not walking away. Well, that was his concern for you. Yes, exactly. But like reading this, I was like, this is exactly what he was talking about. Like, this is why we need the power of the Holy Spirit, not the power of human wisdom, because at the end, like everything needs to be based on the foundation of Jesus Christ. And so, you know, kind of thing.

True Power Versus Cultural Power

13:12

Yeah, I think the the thing for me is this is a lot of correlation to where we're living at today, is that you know what Paul was saying is that because it it in the setting of this in chapter two is in a culture that is very you know huge on authority and power, right? The Roman authority and power, and so it was very centric in the culture of those who had a form of authority or power, uh, but their their form of authority and power was coming from information, with a new Stoics, philosophers, all of that stuff. That was a form of their power. Paul says, I've been in all that, been there, done that, right? Yeah. One of the foremost students of Gamaliel and all of this stuff that Paul had spoke four to five different languages, all this thing. Paul said, I had all that, but he said none of that had the power to transform someone's life like Jesus Christ does. And so he said, that's you know, I'm I'm if I'm gonna lean one way or the other, he goes, I'm going with Jesus because I've seen, I've experienced the transformation power of Christ, and there's nothing that compares to it. And so when he says, I don't I don't know anything among you, but except for Jesus and him crucified, because that is the power to change a life. That is the power to live from. And he said, That's where I'm gonna that's where I'm planted. And you know, what Pastor Jamie just said, you know, that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men. You can be around a lot of wise people, but that doesn't what it may not change your life. But the power of God, I've seen the power of God do some amazing things to people that I never thought I would ever see their life changed. And but God touched their life in such a way that it's just like it's undoubtedly that their life has been transformed. Trevor

What If You Lack A Big Story

15:04

Burrus, Jr. What do you say to the person that that's listening that do hasn't had the experience Paul has to experience that? You know what I mean? Like the person that says, like, I've never wrestled with what Paul wrestled with, or I never experienced, you know, this part of my story. I've always kind of just you know followed along. So I don't have this big story of like I have an answer to that, but I'd love to hear your opinions on like what you know, Paul's comparing his life to something. What what do you say to the 15-year-old that doesn't he doesn't have that to compare his life to when it comes to being like I again I know what I would say to that, but I'd love to hear you guys. It's good. Well, I think when I was sort of meditating on just that portion of it, um, but with a demonstration of the spirit's power, and I think that we even forget like who we were in Christ, even as a 15-year-old, you know, um it's probably definitely harder for children, but without the spirit's power, I'm not loving. I'm not generous. And I think, I mean, we were in VBS today, and kids recognize that they don't have these qualities. That's the spirit's power. So not only just mind-blowing, amazing giftings, healings, whatever, but like the power to be kind to an enemy who's right in front of your face, who got the turn and you didn't get the turn. Sometimes we're just like we're looking too big for the spirit's power, and the spirit's power in individual small ways is pretty spectacular too. Because on our own, we just don't generate this kind of stuff, these responses. Yeah. I think I mean I can just go from some of the history that I've had with people is that I think sometimes people are interested in the power of God, and then there are those that are desperate for the power

Spotting The Spirit In Small Convictions

16:51

of God. And I think that's a big difference is how desperate is it really desperation, or is it just you're just kinda infatuated or interested in. Or on the edges, just kind of checking out. Yeah. I know for me it was you know, there's uh I've always said there's something to be said about desperation because it's in those places that I think keep you, get you willing to make a sacrifice or to keep you, you know, driving for something because it's desperation. It's like survival. It's like Well, we probably all have a different definition of what the demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit looks like, right? Like I mean, I would I mean you default to your experience. You default to your experience for sure. And I think it's helpful we it we have to help people understand that like when you've always walked into the office, or you've as a 15-year-old kid, when you've always walked in and you've maybe lied about something that doesn't seem like that big of a deal, and then all of a sudden there's this conviction, you're like, wait a second, like Where's that coming from? What what am I doing? Like I should not be doing that. You know what I mean? Like, and then you're like, Well, holy smokes, that's a demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit. You know what I'm saying? And like and you're following through that. But I think a lot of times we don't it's why like I loved what Casey said. It was a couple Sundays ago, and she was talking, I forget exactly, but she's talking about her her son, and he's what you know how old is three. There we go. He's three. And uh she's like, that sinner, you know what I mean? Like, and she's talking about, but and obviously there's some things, a concept he's not gonna understand, but as parents, like, how are we helping our kids understand that like they need a demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives? And listening to that voice and then obeying it, versus like, why wait for the demonstration of um I'm cracked out, I'm strung out on drugs, and now I need you know what I mean? Like this big testimony story. I don't know if that's where you're going, but like what's your answer to that, Pastor Jamie?

Holiness Without The “Wild Past”

18:44

Well, I I think from uh a standpoint is like you're always like purity is always the goal, holiness is always the goal. Like God says, be holy as I am holy. So like like making sure, you know, I'm I'm going this weekend even with the understanding of like what does culture say and what is what does God say? Like what is what is Jesus relaying to us? So from a standpoint of like our aim as followers of Christ is to be holy. And so if I could do that and not be have the story, my story is that I never did those things. Yes. Like I want that. And when you think about it moving forward, what you're giving to your future spouse, what you're demonstrating to your future kids, like again, it's not a condemnation on people that don't have that story, but also not not feeling like I'm missing something if my story is I never did drugs or I never did alcohol. I mean, I someone said that something about a drug the other day, and I was like, I've never even had drugs in my body. And they're like, for real? I'm like, I don't know if I should be offended by that. Or like you assumed I did drugs? Like, I was like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what being high is. And I'm like, I'm not gonna be ashamed of that. No, like just to have my story. And I so I think there's this cultural shift that needs to happen that that you're weird if you don't. Yeah. And I'm like, no, you're weird if you do. Like, like I mean, I'm like, I don't and I think that's ultimately what Paul's saying because from a standpoint of his his story is his story was he was he was a Jew, obviously he was raised with the best education, he had incredible mentorship, so he was doing something that was so his story may not have been like he was doing all these other things. Yeah. He was passionate for Yahweh. He was passionate for it, and and he was stuck in a way where obviously we know anger and murder became the result of that. But like I I guess the especially for students like the to abstain or to be stay clean and to stay like like to see that as a like guys, this is an attainable goal and a thing that we want from you versus the other. And and so like when you when you read it, I don't want to put a spin on it, like you gotta go out there and you gotta go try some things before it's like no, you you don't have to do those things and anyway.

Consumer Wisdom AI And Modern Idols

21:01

Which leads us into like the the uh other portion of this is like the demonstration of godly wisdom versus the demonstration of human wisdom. Like if you're gonna be this student, you're gonna have to walk in godly wisdom versus you know, uh this idea of you know, natural man human wisdom kind of deal. And it's difficult, especially as a student, because it's counter-cultural. Yeah. Like you're swimming upstream against a hard current. Yeah. Where do you well be you know, and there's like because obviously we're kind of the first thought of here here is this idea of like uh Paul coming in very simple form so that you see just the power of the Holy Spirit. And obviously we communicate that the culture is doing the opposite of that. Uh how do we see is that visible today as well? Like where people are more interested in being like entertained by man versus being entertained by God, if that makes sense. And I'm not talking about just a Sunday morning experience, you know what I'm saying? In regards to where there's the temptation of uh pursuing human wisdom versus pursuing godly wisdom. Oh I think definitely and when we're dealing you know with a culture that's inundated with consumerism. You know, people have become centric about what what about me? What what's good for me? What do I want? What do I, you know, versus when you're around that versus what is it that I'm I should be doing? And the the wisdom when it comes to the aspect of wisdom is that, you know do we take time to seek God for wisdom? When there's all kinds of things out there, I can go to a podcast, I can go to whatever, I can go to AI or everything that's to me is a a maybe a counterfeit wisdom or a form of wisdom rather than taking the time, the patience to seek God for the wisdom that He has for our lives. It's much easier to go to an alternative form, which is dangerous. Aaron Ross Powell I mean so are yeah are you saying that like to a certain extent AI potentially could be c a counterfeit Holy Spirit? Trevor Burrus Oh absolutely I'm hearing people call AI your second brain. Oh wow like I don't think for myself anymore I'm just going to ask AI. Aaron Ross Powell Sure. Yeah no yeah I could see what's scary is that so many people are relying on this as truth. Yes. And I found so many false false things and like I've I was just googling or put something into it the other day about the 12 tribes of Israel to pull up in a in a study type of thing. And it it gave me the wrong 12 tribes. Trevor Burrus And so if you keep doing it then you can educate AI and it'll finally get the answer right. What? Well no but I'm just saying like I had a professor talk about this very thing. He's like no you are absolutely wrong. And so he like put the question to it like several times and finally it was like oh we're getting this wrong let's autocorrect. Wow. Well I mean how different is it though from in 1994 when you started Googling it's a little bit you just heard you just didn't dial dialogue. I mean it's it's no different information yeah and it's just it just leaves just gadoo I think the center of all of that is really like the contents of a lot of this letter which is idolatry which is a hard word for us and I wonder if it's only hard for us like do you think other cultures What do you mean by that it's idolatry? Explain that to us so like all I'm consumed with and what consumes my imagination is what I want, what's important to me. So whether it's knowledge whether it's power whether it's material whether it's stuff whether it's my it's myself and so that was what consumes that was Tim Keller's um definition what consumes my heart and my imagination what am I thinking about all the time not the Lord then that's my idol. And so because we don't have statues over here we just don't think we're idolaters and and we're putting all kinds of things in that position but it's just not a statue. It's good it's very good. And so but I just wonder like other places you know that are community oriented that are communal so it's like the family like they think about the parents and the grandparents we don't think like that. You know that's good. I mean sinners are sinners so I'm sure they're still struggling with sin just like we are but well let me ask you this question. Paul says that natural person cannot understand the things of God apart from the spirit. When

The Spirit Opens What We Cannot See

25:41

you talk about like sinners are sinners what how does this play a role? Will you say it again repeat the question Paul says the natural person cannot understand the things of God apart from the spirit. Yes explain that I mean that's a tough one the Holy Spirit illuminating your brain so that you can see Christ is like I didn't find Christ he found me I mean that's what that's saying to me. Sure no I think that's the prayer like Holy Spirit would you open my beloved's eyes so that they can understand that you are Christ and Christ crucified for you. Until that marriage happens. Yeah I think I mean it's like you have a you have back to limited experience and experiential knowledge, right? You're just limited as if you'd never known if you never knew anything about a ribeye steak. All you've ever ate is bacon not a good analogy but what is it? Then you're gonna judge everything is is if I say meat, everything is that's meat. You're gonna think what everything is like bacon it tastes like is that why everything tastes like chicken? Yeah. And so what is it that you do the wisdom of men are it's limited, right? And so you're only going to relate to everything according to the category of of what you see things through in that so what God does is open that expansion to understand the all of who we are. I think for the greatest revelation is who we are ourselves is created in the image and the likeness of God. And in in God revealing that to us of who we are and is fearfully and wonderfully made and all of those things it it brings a perspective of understanding then into that there's so much more of all of this there's so much more of me that is yet to be experienced and discovered. But that can only comes through God because if if I'm just relying on me, that's very limited. It's very finite it's very surfacey. Aaron Ross Powell Well the wisdom of the Spirit just doesn't make sense you know so like I have this example for myself from the other day where I was feeling so overwhelmed so just feeling like I was drowning. And um and the Holy Spirit whispered to me Psalm 23 and I kept saying that Psalm to myself the rest of the day nothing changed in my experiences. I was still just as busy still had the same to-do list but my gaze had shifted on the on the savior and now all of a sudden I had all that I needed well that makes no sense nothing has changed but the object of my affection the object of my imagination was instead on the Lord instead of on the to-do list that doesn't make sense but I was so peaceful. And that's it the peace that passes all understanding. I think that I mean we quote that so many times but it's it comes from that piece. Going back to something you just said Pastor Mike is like I I think we're limited in our experiences so then trying to understand what is being talked about. I mean I'm experiencing that right now I'm in a world where I'm like I don't understand this world or you know as we talked about a little bit at lunch when you're explaining something to someone that doesn't know the rules or doesn't know you can't do that. You know I mean you're you're on on the ice you could check someone but you can't do that in a soccer game. Yeah so if you get confuse those two sports you're gonna get a card in you know in in soccer and you're gonna be a wimp in in hockey right so like if you don't understand that so like confusing confusing the two or understanding so if if my pride is saying I know these things and because I know these things I'm gonna walk in these things and I'm not dependent on what God is saying and I'm trying to do it from my standpoint with limited like what I know in limits like there's no way I can do that. So when we say things like I want to depend on the Holy Spirit or I want to be led by the Spirit um what we're saying is God I prefer you which is what Paul's saying I prefer what you're saying I prefer your methods I prefer how you would do this because in the end I want you to change them I think Paul was inundated with I don't want you to remember me so I don't need to I don't need to uh um you know show off in front of you I don't I don't need you to walk away and say that guy's the smartest guy in the in the room I want you to walk away and say something changed him what was that oh that was the Holy Spirit then I want that I mean Ray always says this I mean ever since I've known Ray Bauman he he's always said this statement like make people question why you do what you do when you walk away from them like huh why is why is that guy so nice?

Pray For Pastors And Follow Jesus

30:36

Why why would why did that guy react like that when he could have reacted like this I love how you know like so it's like that's so then when someone says explain to me why you're that way and then you say well I was raised by a good family you know I got good parents well then they're walking away going that could be true you could have had great parents but that guy may not have had a good parent and so now they don't understand that. Why why do they have a good parent because they didn't have they never had that or their parents are dead or or something like that. But when you say man I've understood that there's a God that loves me that he forgave me and he sent his Holy Spirit to lead me and to guide me and you can have it too. Now all of a sudden there's there's something going oh I can have this and that to me is what that is Paul in Corinth for me. That that this this solidifies everything Paul was trying to do and why he was so passionate when it came to what the people experienced. So then when they are fighting over some of these you know frivolous things he's going you guys are missing you're missing the point you're missing what this is about and to think that we don't do that is ridiculous. Ridiculous well that's the hard part of letters like you don't hear my tone I don't know how you're interpreting my letter you're like no you got to call them Paul. Yeah get on the phone get on that boat or my text. Right I just read this quote yesterday kind of goes along with what you said Jamie said this he says live your life so that those who know you but don't know Christ want to know Christ because they know you nice I like that so if somebody looks at me knows me they don't know Christ are going to go I like who he is so and he's in he's that way because he's a follower of Jesus now I want to be a follower of Jesus because of the way he is I think the hardest thing for all of us on this podcast is getting to people to see you as a as a follower of Christ and not a pastor. Sure. I think that's the I mean because I hear that more than I do you know oh I didn't want to say those words because you're a pastor. Or I didn't want you to see that because you're a pastor. They're not saying because you're a follow Jesus so that's the flip that has to happen when it comes to and I think what Paul's trying to say you guys know you've heard about me. You've heard about these things but at the core here's who I am I follow Christ and him crucified. Like that's what I hear when he's saying that he's like don't forget who I am you might call me apostle you might call me uh you know this guy who was you know raised this way and and known for all these things but here's who I am I follow Christ and I think that's that's always a hurdle especially in culture. And we've heard that from people even what Sean was saying earlier when when uh you know you've seen prevalent or you know guys in public fall and people are thrown off by it. It's like well because you weren't following Jesus you were following your pastor. Yeah and now which is an idol. Yeah which which now has totally messed up you could be disappointed you could your heart can hurt all those things but in the end you put them on the pedestal so when it got knocked down that's still my that's still my issue. I don't know that guys go, I want to be a celebrity pastor. Somebody put them there. Yeah. It's not always their fault. Somebody put them there. Trevor Burrus Well what I think what recently someone had said to us I don't know if you said it or we heard it or you mentioned it or maybe Mike whatever like there's there's guys that are not like big mega guys that are falling just since they're not mega, you don't ever hear about them. Matt Chandler said it is okay that's why I was never hearing the guy with a hundred people like that is like having a lot of faithful pastors I think someone asked Matt Chandler tell me about all the mega church pastors falling he says well I think more people are falling you're just not hearing about them. Here's what I tell people don't put your pastor on a pedestal pedestal put him on your prayer list. It's good. That's where they need to be because that's that's what they need the most they need you praying for them not becoming a texting them constantly I don't want people enamored with me I want people praying for me. That's really good. Well their love for you is going to change too when you're praying for them. Yeah absolutely it's harder to pray for you and talk bad about you. Yeah so good.

Closing Prayer And Final Focus

35:07

Well guys hey another great podcast chapter two on that note do you mind closing us out in prayer? Yeah. Be perfect man hold on that's a bad a big pee of mine. What? Do you mind? Yes. What's the pet peeve He just said he does mind. Will you pray? Do you mind praying? He said yes Mike will you mind praying like no absolutely I'll pray absolutely Sean there it is done. All right Jesus thank you for um I thank you for everybody around this this table today and what they bring uh to the body of Christ and all their giftings and graces and I'm appreciative of every one of them and and Jesus I man it's like cliche is to say you know without you what could we do? But I pray that through the series that we are doing this summer through uh the Paul's letter to the Corinthians I thank you that uh so many things as people dive into this that um you bring to light in their life you bring transformation to their life you bring joy to their life you bring freedom to their lives that's that's what we're praying for uh through this because that's who what you do Jesus in and who you are and and your word is is freeing it's it's that which defines as we know the scripture says between truth and what isn't truth and especially for the day that we live in. And so we just thank you for the the revelation of truth the revelation of your life and it's like Paul said we want to know nothing but you crucified as a risen Savior in Jesus' name. Amen.