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Building the Future: The Red Ridge Development Story with Patrick Brennan

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Embark on a transformative journey through the cultural heart of Las Vegas with our special guest, Patrick Brennan of Red Ridge Development. We'll uncover the storied evolution of Symphony Park, once the cradle of Sin City, now a flourishing beacon of arts, culture, and community. As we traverse this historic landscape, be prepared to discover how landmarks such as the Smith Center and the Lou Ruvo Brain Institute have withstood the test of time and economic upheaval, contributing to a vibrant and diverse economy that now welcomes major sports teams and eagerly anticipates the roar of Formula One.

This episode is a masterclass in envisioning an urban core that stands in stark contrast to the neon-lit Strip. Patrick Brennan opens the door to the strategy behind crafting a community-focused environment where residential spaces like Cello Tower and new hotel endeavors coalesce to create a sanctuary for residents. The narrative is rich with details on fostering a walkable, local community, highlighting the burgeoning medical sector's role in shaping the area. As we explore the psychology behind consumer behavior and space design, you'll gain a fresh perspective on the art of building neighborhoods that resonate with locals and intrigue visitors alike.

Wrap up your experience with a celebration of Las Vegas's dynamic transformation. We invite you to support the local pulse with ventures that are injecting new energy into the cityscape. From the impending vibrancy of Origin's mixed-use project to the community-centric platform of Vegas Circles, this episode is a call to action to engage with the exciting opportunities blooming in Las Vegas. With Patrick Brennan steering the helm of developments like Chello Towers, we're reminded of the importance of innovation, mentorship, and the indomitable spirit that drives the city forward.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Vegas Circle Podcast with your hosts, paki and Chris. We are people who are passionate about business, success and culture, and this is our platform to showcase the people in our city who make it happen. On today's podcast, we're going to be diving into a developer's wisdom on what it takes to build a master plan community and the future of Las Vegas real estate. Welcome a guest to the circle. Founder of Red Ridge Development, mr Patrick Brennan.

Speaker 2:

So good to finally have you on man, we've been talking for a couple of years now, man, so I was recently at your ribbon cutting for Cello Towers.

Speaker 1:

that just kind of came on board with the sales center and all that good stuff. But first we want to kind of talk about origin and symphony park. So that's the kind of mothership of everything, right, and so can you kind of share what our listeners, what you're spearheading right now. Does this open? Up in symphony park.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's exciting times for Las Vegas. You know it's been long time coming. There's been a lot of different proposed projects on symphony park, but I'll go back to the origination of Symphony Park. Well, even before that, our name origin at Symphony Park, which is the 5.9 acres on the north end of the master plan of Symphony Park, came from the fact that that area was where Las Vegas was created as a town, as a city, was where Las Vegas was created as a town, as a city. So in that general area of downtown, especially with the Union Pacific Railroad, which Symphony Park was the location of the Union Pacific Railroad rail yard, it was really the founding area.

Speaker 2:

So yeah it's pretty incredible, a lot of history down there. It's a great location, obviously centrally located within the 95, the 15, downtown, the strip, but it it has gone through a lot of different iterations. So as it started off, as I said, is the union pacific railroad. The city bought it, uh, they completely remediated the land so it was a brownfield. It had diesel fuel from when they were storing, uh rail cars, but they cleaned it all up, which is great. So it's all certified. It's clean now and that's where the start of development happened with the Smith Center, which is a top 10 global performing arts theater and they receive obviously all the Broadway top 10 Broadway shows. It has the Discovery Children's Museum and then the Lou ruvo brain institute for specializing in alzheimer and memory care came in with a beautiful building designed by frank geary and that kind of started where symphony park was coming around. You know, in 2008 there were a lot of talks about potentially housing nba basketball stadium.

Speaker 2:

one point in mls stadium there were huge master plans all in symphony park, high rises wow, um, and then it 2008 hit and everything kind of reset with, you know, the global financial crisis and it, it. I think it actually was great for las vegas because it a lot of those things as we see, belongs more on the strip, with the stadiums and the activity and just the general connection to the airport to, obviously, the hotels, the casinos, the restaurants. It all flows more natural in those spaces a little bit. I mean, obviously it's great to have those items in downtown and certain professional teams to be downtown, but it also makes sense that it's near in proximity for walkability for the stadiums.

Speaker 2:

So in 2008, after 2008, there was a huge focus from the city to diversify the economy. You know we really, even though our hotel casino tourism convention will always be the center core of business, how do we get beyond that? How do we start diversifying our economy, grow it to a point where it's naturally able and sustainable to weather any additional downturns, which we always have as a capitalist society? We'll always have ebbs and flows. The city's done a great job. They really have. I mean, the sports teams was a big part of that.

Speaker 2:

A lot of people don't remember how, in 2008, we didn't have sports teams and it really was still taboo and a fear of well, what happens if sports teams come here? What's going to happen?

Speaker 2:

Gambling issues Gambling and obviously acceleration into internet gaming and they really started to take note and said, okay, this is something that is already across the country and there's gaming actually in 48 states. A lot of people don't know that, but gaming is legal in 48 states and so forth. So that sort of diluted that argument. And then obviously the Golden Knights coming in, the huge success with the Knights and then it just spilled right over into every other sports team, now Not really going from no desire to be here to then being on the outside and clamoring to get in. So that was one big part.

Speaker 2:

Obviously, formula One was a huge surprise. I think they still. We got a couple of things, but I've been to a few races. I'm a big F1 fan. It's growing pains. I was at the first inaugural of Miami. It was tough and then they figured it out now and I think Vegas is going to, it's going to come around. I think they're doing a good job already with a lot of the local outreach to make sure that locals are more informed or participating more, getting early tickets at a more affordable price point. I have no involvement in F1. Again, I'm just a fan.

Speaker 1:

I like seeing it here.

Speaker 2:

It's a cool sport to follow. Getting back to downtown, then downtown was really okay. Where is downtown going? You obviously had the late great Tony Hsieh. He did an incredible job with East Fremont. His vision for downtown I think spurred the whole movement of growth, of diversification into downtown, brought a lot of incredible and forward-thinking his business. But also, I mean, he had like a llama park and Airstream and really cool stuff that that you know people would normally never do. But it definitely started to define kind of a funky culture that attracted more residents. We obviously had, um, the soho towers, newport towers, ogden, um, and then, and then jewel coming in and you saw people moving in, which was good. And then we started to look at, well, where is the growth going to continue to go on? And Symphony Park was definitely the special place. So Symphony Park is 61 acres. It was developed and designed during Oscar Goodman's tenure as mayor. It was really his vision. They did a great job. So it is.

Speaker 2:

It is technically its own private neighborhood within the city, which is incredible I mean that really does not exist anywhere else in the country to have 61 acres in the urban core in the cbd. And you know they. They did a great job. One of the most important things that they did it was very forward-thinking. I don't even think they thought how important this would become, even in today's world is all the parcels go all the way to the street.

Speaker 2:

So what that means is, as the developer, we have to build our sidewalks and we maintain them within the symphony park design guidelines, but they're all private property. So, as much as we are welcome to everyone to come and visit, we are able to create a secure and safe place. So even at park Haven, you see it, all the other projects in the Smith center um, there's private security, there's cameras. You always see school buses down there with children visiting. Whether it's the Smith Center or Discovery Children's Museum, they do parks. I think there was a cheerleading competition in the park over the weekend when I was down there. I mean, it's really a completely different environment from what is happening in the medical district to what's happening in the arts and brewery district, to East Fremont, which is what you want to see too. It's great. I mean, when you're in Manhattan. You jump to different neighborhoods.

Speaker 1:

That all run into each other.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean you can be walking in New York and you go from Soho and next thing you know, you're in Little Italy, the next block. You're like're like, oh, I'm in Chinatown. Yeah, this is incredible and it just kind of naturally flows. But they are all very distinct neighborhoods and we're we're really starting to see that as a city, which is really cool. Yeah, from a culture standpoint, from the restauranteurs, you know, the arts and brewery district are really finding their cue. What I would call is like Brooklyn and Williamsburg in the early 2000s, 2008, where you had a lot of amazing chefs that were working for restaurants under Michael Mina Todd English incredible chefs, but all that talent and then they're like well, I want to branch off and start my own thing, and that's occurring now with james tree esther's kitchen and a lot of what's happening. You know 1228, which is a wolfgang puck um with his son, kind of taking the lead last night.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we just talked about that last night yeah and it's not branded.

Speaker 3:

It's not branded wolfgang puck, like you don't know. That's awesome, but it's his son.

Speaker 1:

I was, we didn't know that we, somebody just told us last night the owner's a feature we just had our. They were just talking about it and it's packed all the time.

Speaker 2:

That's pretty cool, but they did a great job with it because it has like a little bakery, it's got the restaurant, it's got a great bar, so it kind of serves multipurpose for the neighborhood. So you have that happening. And then Symphony Park is kind of what I call like your Tribeca. I park is kind of what I call like your tribeca. I mean it's really meant for, like the neighborhood. You got safe streets, you have kids to play in there. There's the park.

Speaker 2:

Um, so that's where we started to really say, okay, if we're going to be able to do high rise, which really hasn't been done since city center, how how are we going to do it? And where, where can it go? And, quite honestly, the strip is not the right place. It right now mean there might be some developments down the future that it might occur, but the Strip is really continuing its reemergence as just being the epicenter of tourism for global gaming convention, now sports, and Vegas needed something of its own identity, to call its own neighborhood and its own urban core, and that's what symphony park is. Um, it's. It's a very, very special place. Um, it's again with already park haven now being there oric, oric two oric three, which is another mid-rise, and then a 22-story high-rise with, uh, all for rent. So cello tower is the first product, though, that's actually purchased.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right, and they're putting a hotel right there, too, right they are right. Yeah, okay, all for rent. So Cello Tower is the first product, though, that is actually purchased. Yeah, right, and they're putting a hotel right there too, right they are.

Speaker 2:

On the corner right by it. Okay, yep, so Jackson Shaw is doing a 441-room hotel.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And they'll have a three-meal restaurant It'll be servicing. It'll service the World Market Center which, when Blackstone bought it, they built about a 300,000-square-foot expo that's year-round, so that convention space goes.

Speaker 1:

This is all within the block, all within just Symphony Park. Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 2:

And then I know Cleveland Clinic. They're looking to expand and go more into some of the medical tourism space space. And then obviously you know you have what's happening in medical district with, you know, the medical school, the renovation of UMC and the city putting an all brand new infrastructure there to support new development for a whole medical research treatment tourism. You know medical tourism, which is huge.

Speaker 1:

And we need that. We need the Bostons and a lot of the other cities that kill it. Now we're getting that in Vegas, which is huge, and we need that. We need it Because you have the Bostons and a lot of the other cities that kill it. Now we're getting that in Vegas, which is awesome. It's pretty incredible.

Speaker 2:

But again, we needed something that really resonated with locals and I think for me it was unique because I'm born and raised here, my family's been here since the 1950s, so we're multi-generational. But I left. I left. I worked on City Center during my master's at UNLV. I left.

Speaker 2:

I got national development experience, institutional capital, working in the biggest cities with some of the biggest equity partners, debt lenders, and came back to Vegas and I could see from all the other development cities and them starting to emerge, what was really happening in Vegas. So I started engaging a lot with the city of Las Vegas, with the urban economic development team, with Mayor Goodman, and just really starting to understand what's their vision and they're good. I mean it's definitely the best pro-business, pro-development city that I've ever worked with. I mean we almost have a concierge for business development, which never happened. It's pretty unique for Vegas but it's very welcome. And so that's where we started and really the focus was we have.

Speaker 2:

First we had a lot of restaurants, which is rare, to that to kind of enter. We had a lot of restaurants but we didn't have enough residents. So now we focus on residents. We got, we built apartments with Park Haven and the others to do proof of concept that people really wanted to live in this neighborhood. They wanted to live in the proximity. We knew. You know, being a local, you know we always laugh and say you want to live. You know, right off the strip.

Speaker 2:

You don't want to live on the strip, you know it's nice to touch it, you got to work in it but you want to take that break, you want to come back, you want to, you want to get out of it and have a sense of relief. And when you focus on the design of that, there's a certain aspect like you, you, you create using more natural light. You know, uh, natural materials were a little bit open space for when people arrive, uh, just to let them, you know, kind of decompress. Even just walking in the front door of your building to make sure that that's that's occurring, and I think even just driving into symphony park, now it just it already starts.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a whole different energy.

Speaker 2:

You come across and you drop into that neighborhood and it all kind of just falls away. You don't even think you're there, you don't even feel like you're in Vegas.

Speaker 3:

How do you educate people on that? Because it's kind of like for me I've been here 10 years and I've been here my whole life but I didn't know this whole history of Symphony Park. I didn't know how exciting it could be. You see it now as beginning to develop. But to have that foresight into you, know, understanding what it could be like, how do you get the buy-in early and educate the people what the possibility is going to be?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's really tough yeah.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say that's the biggest piece.

Speaker 2:

So in my former company Park Haven, was my project start to finish, full vision conversation with the city from the early onset all the way through stabilization, lease up, those are all kind of our development terms. But basically we filled the building, we did all the operations and now it's just a fully operating, amazing apartment building. But really I mean I was pitching that when it was all dirt parking lots- that's a lot of hurdles and a railroad yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you really got to pitch the vision and really sell it. And it takes some good vision and really sell it and it takes some good visionaries to understand that. Fortunately we had some great partners. There were some good incentives with the Opportunity Zone, which also helps. I mean that definitely was a big, big push that made Park Haven really successful, at least from the early onset of people really believing in the neighborhood and then from there it kind of starts to build. You get the momentum, you get the early adopters who start coming in.

Speaker 2:

They like being the first ones in the neighborhood, they like to say. I was here when it all started. I remember when there was dirt here and I feel a strong connection to that Now with the tower, and how do you sell people on buying it?

Speaker 3:

as individuals. You can test it at a rental. It's hard when you're purchasing Very hard.

Speaker 2:

It is totally different. People really think, okay, great Apartment building, condo, tower, oh, it's full presidential.

Speaker 3:

Because you can get out and you can leave. If I don't like it, I can leave. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Oh, and even just the capital investment that it is because you have to. You have to design everything almost to finish before you can really start selling. And it's a really you know dynamic, like hard dynamic to manage because you are you're, you're almost like your design team, even through, you know, and they all kind of change here and there a little bit. Team, even through, you know, and they all kind of change here and there a little bit um, but even our units, you know you're, you're working with the design team, you're working with, you know, the architect, all of the consultants that go with them, and every minor little change like we have to update that you know, um. But so how do you do it? I mean, you start with renderings is really important. You know you really can do.

Speaker 2:

Visuals are good, uh, storytelling. So we did a. We have an incredible marketing team who came out, really shot the video. I think they did an incredible job. I typically don't like to be as much involved as the story, but they did feel that and I agree that it's important, because being a local here and telling the story of, hey, people really live here, people are growing up here, this is for locals and even for my kids who are born here now. It's for the next generation. The foundation feels right, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And they will now have a great downtown. That, as Vegas, locals will have ownership of the Strip, is kind of for everybody else right, like hey, we have 42 million, 46 million people coming into town, we build the next airport out at Sloan, like more, which is great, it's huge, it's best, it's incredible for our economy. But what do the locals have ownership? Where do they really go? Where do we find our identity within the city itself and that now will be downtown?

Speaker 1:

I agree, talk a little bit about like because I know a little bit just from our conversations. But the sales center, right Like the sales center, opened up you know Q4 of last year with you know with Cello Towers. Can you share just the energy of how you guys have sold that and what the percentage is just to date now? It's unreal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we again. I mean this is a huge credit to the city. I mean we did design, build on that sales center in 60 days. Yes, because we really wanted to push to get open.

Speaker 1:

It looks great yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean it's awesome you come down there. Yeah, they did a phenomenal job and we didn't cut any corners. Yeah, it just was really the efficiency of how we could get our building permits through and our design team worked in collaboration with the general contractor who built out the space. But we wanted to get open before City Center or, sorry, before Formula One. We wanted to get open just as a soft opening before we went into the holiday season, because we just felt like it would be great we can get some people that'll come in. They got a little bit of time off and then, once the new year starts, we will really begin our push for PR and start driving it as soon as we opened it was crazy.

Speaker 2:

I mean, there were 15 years of pent-up demand and we only started with okay interest list. Like you, fill out this form. You tell us what unit you like a one-bedroom den, two bedroom, two bedroom den, a penthouse, what floor you roughly like, and we'll call you and start coordinating you to come in once we actually release the units with a proper price, individual price. You know your unit, your view and then um, and we just started that, so we had over 50, almost 60 percent of the building already.

Speaker 1:

You know, of interest yeah, it's like 240 luxury condos.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, what point do you realize, like maybe we didn't price the high enough yeah, well, we should put a little bit.

Speaker 2:

It's still pretty hot the tough part is we, I I want to make it, you know, as the best of a deal as I can, you know, again, being for locals, we really try to do it. The hard part is just construction pricing. Yeah, you know, I mean we kind of we have to keep our margin for what's required for our capital markets and our partners and what they, what turns they, have to see. But for the most part, like it just kind of shifts with with where the construction and the total project comes in, yeah, um, so unfortunately I wanted to start lower but we did.

Speaker 2:

we did have to do some, some adjustments as we came in today they start around 700, 700, okay, and then um yeah, for one bedroom, um, but I mean really in comparison to you know austin, denver, miami, you know any other cities, I mean we are steel yeah, yeah, I mean, it is in boston and new york oh my goodness.

Speaker 2:

I mean it's. It's crazy what? What the value you still have in vegas and we're seeing that right like austin's, kind of overbuilt a little bit right now they're. They're actually kind of coming down a little bit denver same thing're actually kind of coming down a little bit Denver same thing Miami is, I don't know. They're still out of control. It's amazing.

Speaker 2:

But we kind of, you know, we're the only one that didn't really take off this time, which is good. I think we actually kind of held back in a good way, and now we're really gearing up and there's, you know, a lot of connection with Miami. You know how Miami was really kind of a party town and all these things, and now you see what happened there and we're sort of kind of falling into the slipstream of that and being like, you know, I don't want to say we're Miami of the West, but you're seeing those similarities of the transition from being like a party destination or really more tourism in and out. You know they obviously have all the ships and all that, but for us it's different. But we are seeing that in our own way and we need to control it our own way but, it's definitely changing a lot.

Speaker 1:

As far as being a developer, I know you worked on the Park Haven project. How long did this take from the first time you got the vision for origin to like?

Speaker 2:

you're open. Yeah, I mean, park Haven was five years, five years origin, and cello tower will be six up until when it opens.

Speaker 1:

Cuz it opens, yeah, 20, 26, okay, I really saw six years okay 2020.

Speaker 2:

Okay, having those early conversations. How do you like get the?

Speaker 3:

funding for these they're massive. They're massive, right, obviously, you have really great partnerships with people who have a lot of funding and capital available. When you start this project and it's your brainchild you have an idea of where you're going to take it and what it's going to look like. What is it? Is that pitch meetings, consistently trying to just develop funding, or how does that work?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean a lot of it is. It's like any other startup, any other entrepreneur. It starts with who is the person and they're investing in you. I say that is the first and foremost. I mean you can have the best project in the world, but if you can't pitch it or you don't have the experience or you don't have the knowledge to really get it from a vision of drawing, I mean, like everything else, we drew it on a piece of paper. I site plan, I have it. This is literally just drawn.

Speaker 1:

Look, I got to stop before I say it, because you didn't pitch me on it, you just shared with me and I'm like, okay, when I wanted to buy one yeah. You. You've done an excellent job with presenting it and giving the history and being involved with everything I got to give you your props man because you've done an excellent job. I appreciate it. It means a lot. No, I'm serious yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know, but in passion. So I mean you got a couple, all those things together and have a clear and defined business plan. I mean it can change down the road.

Speaker 2:

You always want to be tweaking it and massaging it and modifying it. But you need to have that clear vision and then you know you're real, but really, when you're pitching anything like that, it's who is the person behind it? And then why is this going to be successful? How is this going to be successful? How does it make a difference? You know, you always hear that, how are you different than anybody else? You know, for us, how does it make a difference? You always hear that, how are you different than anybody else?

Speaker 2:

For us, it was well, I haven't built anything in 15 years in all those buildings. There's been a lot of strides in condo, high-rise living that these older places don't have. I mean we have 40,000 square feet of amenity space. I mean it's incredible what the facilities we have. I mean you don't have to leave, know, some of the older buildings, they, they don't have that right, which is fine. I mean that's just what you built back then. Yeah, um, but so that that's on the bone, on the good side, on the bad side, is well, why is nobody building?

Speaker 1:

the condo tower in 15 years yeah.

Speaker 2:

So you got to talk through that and you practice and you you have to think about all of the things that you would challenge yourself on and just make sure that your pitch is as strong as it can be. Your answers are thoughtful, they're realistic and you just really continue to push and when the person says no, you just go okay go to the next person.

Speaker 3:

go to the next person. Are you cold calling these people? Are they established relationships? How do you get that foot in the door? You have this great vision. Why would they give you that meeting to begin with? Somebody trying to do the same thing? Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean for me personally. I mean everybody kind of has their own story. Mine is just experience and hard work. So, and hard work, you know.

Speaker 1:

So I worked in for other companies and obviously established my background, my history building the relationships yeah, all of those.

Speaker 2:

And along the road, obviously you pick up a lot of investors. People are watching you. You know you're. They're almost almost like a sports team, like they're. They're following your career. If you start knocking out great projects and you're really kind of hitting a home run, every time your project's coming online, people are taking note Very much so yeah, yeah everyone has a very keen eye and from there you can start to see okay, I might be able to do it, but then you've got to make the decision.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of nice things about staying with a big company. You can focus. A lot of nice things about staying with a big company you can focus. You don't have to deal with the accounting, with the attorneys, with HR, with all those support departments and if you're going to go off on your own and then develop it, you have to do all of that.

Speaker 2:

You better be an expert at law, construction code, design operations, everything. Yeah, and you really got to know it because, as you're like, you're investors Talk me through all this. So you have to be so versed in so many different categories and the way you do that is just experience. You got to really love it. You got to have passion and then go out. That is just experience. You've got to really love it. You've got to have passion and then go out and get the experience and then you can come back and then you can decide, if it's wherever you're at in your life, are you going to do it or you're not going to do it.

Speaker 1:

I love the fact. So like, for example, I know we've talked a lot about it, so Origin mixed-use project, so to have grocery store, restaurants, retail, are you able to share with these tenants? Because I got to ask you, I got to put you on the spot, sure so do we know who the grocery store is going to be and some of these tenants and restaurants.

Speaker 2:

So we have a lot of interest. On the retail, we can't quite say yet Okay.

Speaker 1:

We're working through it.

Speaker 2:

We have executed LOIs. We're working through a lot of the lease agreements. We're also just trying to. We have sort of some of the spaces are already oversubscribed. Okay, so we continue to modify and say, well, which one is going to be the best restaurant? Which one is going to be the best grocery store? We have multiple that are interested. Yeah, so it's happening.

Speaker 1:

That's going to be a home run, because people don't realize how important it is to have a grocery store like literally downstairs, especially in these high rise areas.

Speaker 2:

But what's great is, because of Austin, because of Denver, because of Miami, all that proof of concept has been done. And so these guys, a lot of the grocers and it can even be regional grocers, it can be other national grocers, it can be grocers from other cities like that that have created sort of their urban grocer 12,000, 15,000 square feet. There's a lot more of them and they really have honed their business model and they're excited about Vegas, which is great. I can tell you that we are very dedicated to making a retail F&B that is not mainstream.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so we've had Something organic.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yes, I mean I can tell you we had what normally would be a home run for a developer. It's like a plant the flag excited. I mean major global coffee shop.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to say the name, yeah, I get it. You know who it is, I get it, I get it Start shop. I'm not gonna say the name, yeah, but I get it. You know who it is, I get it, I get it. And it starts with an s. I'm assuming, yeah, our, our retail broker was so excited because he's like oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2:

You know, first call they were, they were in. They're literally like we're in balance sheet whole deal.

Speaker 2:

I mean that's huge for equity partner, for lender, everybody. And you know that call could have gotten worse for them. Everyone on the call is like, no, that's not what we want. That is not who we want to be. It's not who this project is.

Speaker 2:

You know, obviously it's great if we do share responsibility to share any offer we get, and we just said no. We said no, thank you, but we want to keep it local, we want to keep it regional. We don't want to have restaurants that you can just go anywhere and find. We want to support the groups that come into the neighborhood. We want it to be walkability and we're very precise. I mean we've turned away a lot of groups that, quite honestly, I've gone and secret shopped and we'll walk in.

Speaker 2:

The restaurant's got four people sat and we're like, oh, we're not taking walk-ins. I was like, oh, okay, turn around and walk out. You don't realize what you're doing. We're a neighborhood of walkability. That's the whole point that we're missing in Las Vegas is a neighborhood that you can walk downstairs. You don't have to call your friends, you can just take your dog or your kid for a walk and you run into your neighbors. You get your groceries, like, yeah, there's a huge part of that that we've been missing for almost forever, and this, this project is is really about that.

Speaker 3:

That's exciting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we wanted restaurants and also at the right, the right price point too, that it's not crazy expensive, that you can go to the restaurant two or three times, or the restaurant, so you can almost be eating out three to four nights a week grabbing a happy hour yeah. And you're just hanging out and it's a great time.

Speaker 3:

What challenges do you see from a mixed use space, right, because going from, like, a park haven, where I don't think they have restaurants, right, it's just strictly apartment or housing, and then now you're adding in this restaurant space, retail space, you knowancy from a whole different dynamic I would think.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's much more complicated.

Speaker 2:

And even this now with the condo tower and condo mapping and air rights and separation of APN numbers, which for housing, that's basically your assessor's office and we're subdividing two parcels under one parcel and then you have air rights above and you have to, you know, write all these legal descriptions and bifurcate it all from a legal standpoint and for land. I mean, and it goes on your title report, which our title report goes all the way back to the origination of of las vegas, so there's a lot more complicated than that. But specifically to your question about like restaurants and the mixed use yes, I mean it's, it's, it's very complex on multiple levels. One, um, your architect is definitely very important and you need to make sure, even because a lot of architects say, oh, I know how to, you know, I can design multifamily, I can design a restaurant. Yeah, you know, but are they really taking into account, you know, your HVAC, your shafts that are going, so all the spaces that are going to be supporting the restaurant themselves? You know, are you future thinking for that? Because that can get very costly for a tenant. You know there's projects that I know of that are they look great? And then, as soon as the tenant starts coming in and they're saying, whoa, I got to spend a million dollars just to put in the infrastructure and I haven't even gotten to my finishes yet. So you have to take a lot of that into consideration.

Speaker 2:

You start very early on on what your merchandising plan is going to be. Who is your tenant, who is your target demographic? What would be your preference? Your one, two, three, your first, second, third choice. And then you start designing your grease traps.

Speaker 2:

Because if you want a restaurant, how is the space going to potentially change as the neighborhood changes or the space transitions? Maybe it's a retail, maybe it's a restaurant, maybe it's a bar, maybe it's a retail, maybe it's a restaurant, maybe it's a bar, maybe it's a nail salon, and it can change for the whole life of that project. Well, after you know, you may sold it or moved on, um, so you have to think of it in so many different facets and again, a lot of it is just experience, but also then having the right people so you can have an architect. But it's also great, if you don't have that retail experience, to have a retail consultant who really knows it. Yeah, because it's like anything I'll reference to hospitality back of house. If you don't get your loading docks right, your grease traps right, your trash right, you know, and all the support and infrastructure, it doesn't matter that really matter.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it really talks to your experience because it's almost like that's elevated development, like you, know you may start in the smaller spaces but you have to go in this mixed use space, you're really at that kind of, you know, elevated tier of development and you know, from from that perspective, you see, uh, you know we talked about exit. You know, essentially, do you see that these spaces in retail are more valuable, or, uh, tenants more valuable, or the combination tends to be more valuable?

Speaker 2:

the combination is definitely more valuable or the combination tends to be more valuable. The combination is definitely more valuable. So anytime that you are creating synergy between two different business models, if you can get it right, it's always going to be more powerful. Because the restaurants, I mean, if you're a restaurateur, you say, hey, this is great. So just in Symphony Park, right? So just in Symphony Park, right. So just the north half of Symphony Park with Park Haven, Oric, Oric 2, Oric 3, Cello Tower and what's going to be our multifamily in origin. It's over 1,500 residential units Right in one space In a block of each other. Yeah, it's just the north half of Symphony Park.

Speaker 1:

That's literally like New York City and a lot of other places.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, good point, very good point and you're talking like okay, so you have two bedrooms, you have people that live in a one-bedroom. Together, you can be easily 2,500 to 3,000 people in Symphony Park.

Speaker 1:

Right In that spot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're right so you tell me as a restaurateur, is that powerful for?

Speaker 1:

you it's powerful, yeah, and then you walk there, then you add in Smith Center and you add in all these other things that are going on. You got Smith.

Speaker 2:

Center coming in saying, hey, I want to get off the strip. I mean, how many times locals, how many times we get phone calls from people visiting saying, hey, I'm here for three or four days, I'm here for a convention. I just I got to get out of the strip, like, where do you go? I don't want to go to this suburb, where do you go? And we're kind of like, now we're starting to have it. Okay, go to the Arts and Brewery District. Well, what am I going to do? You walk outside, you don't have to get in your car and you're in a safe environment and you can get your food.

Speaker 2:

You can go and hang out, you can run into your neighbors, you don't have to call anybody, you can meet new people just because you walk downstairs. It's very much a New York, boston, east Coast. Hey, you go sit by your. It's not weird there for people to just go by themselves and sit at a bar or sit at a table and they meet people. Yeah, you know it's a little bit more of like. You know there's just a community aspect. So when you build community, you build a stronger business model.

Speaker 3:

That's great, because you don't really see that a lot. No, not at all, like anywhere outside.

Speaker 1:

But now that they've been able to do that. No, not at all.

Speaker 3:

I don't think, anywhere outside of a couple of families, but now they've been able to do that.

Speaker 1:

And I know you and I talked about this a little bit too. Like you know, both of us are from the Midwest right, but I lived in the East Coast for a while too, and Vegas was missing the public transportation. I know you and I talked about this a lot, a lot.

Speaker 2:

Can you share like what's going to happen as far as the connection between medical district and the strip, right from my understanding of like the next seven years or so?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I mean boring company, I mean their company is definitely doing a tremendous job, you know I know they're still in their, you know their, their plan, their development, but I mean they have full support from from the county, from the city. You know, I know they have some design hurdles, but you know every again growing pains in every business, but they do have the support okay and I think that it definitely proof of concept with with the convention center, uh, and I think it's, it's a phenomenal system to have, for us, for vegas to have, quote, unquote, a subway, um, and public transit is is a game changer.

Speaker 1:

It's huge because you have to drive, yeah, because it's a pain in the butt. I mean for, for to your point, formula one, right, yeah, we didn't enjoy formula one when it was here, but then you have the public transportation come in and you're having an event and then, obviously, with the nba coming, the raiders, the knights, you could get around everywhere and I think that's what I'm so excited whenever you're creating more density.

Speaker 2:

It just is always better to have infrastructure for public transit. Got it? Get people in, get people out smoother. And yeah, the more we have NBA teams, the more our airport grows. The more residential that comes downtown, the more demand it is to come from the Strip to experience downtown, or vice versa for workers who are living downtown that want to live five minutes from the Strip, but in about five to seven years, as much as the boring company can go.

Speaker 2:

I mean you could live in Symphony Park and not even own a car. So let's talk about this for a second. So you live in Symphony Park, you hop in the boring company, you can go to any single one of the hotels. You can go to any of the single stadiums. You can go to any of the single stadiums, you can get to the airport, you can get to the Bright Line and you can be in LA in two hours. You can be at the airport, flying anywhere in the world with our great airport, which a lot of other cities don't have that incredible airport and ability to really fly to anywhere in the globe and then have access to whether you're working in your job, whether you're going to go see sports teams. You can be in and out. You don't even have to own a car. See, now you're speaking my language.

Speaker 1:

I love that.

Speaker 2:

And you go downstairs, you're in a grocery store, you're at restaurants and you can go back to your neighborhood Again. That's the whole thing is where are you finding your identity within your neighborhood? That's exciting and that's what we're really starting to see emerging. Yeah, I love it. I could talk with you forever, man.

Speaker 1:

So, we want to kind of transition a little bit about somebody that values mentorship, right Us being Vegas Circle, who's in your circle. That's kind of spoken your life and kind of kept you on the right track.

Speaker 2:

A lot. So I've been fortunate that I've had some great mentors, I mean locally. Uh, you know paul steelman, you know paul steelman was a huge influence for me. You know, unfortunately I went to, uh, our lady and and his daughter and I've gone to school. That went to school together all the way through kindergarten all the way through all through high school, being very good friends and all through high school.

Speaker 2:

I'll just sit at the kitchen table with him and he would be designing casinos all around the world. So you were able to pick his brain and really just learn.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, just sit down there and learn a lot, which was really cool. And then when I left Vegas, I had a great mentor, kevin Wisdom, when I was at Aspen Ice Partners. Okay, I had a tremendous amount of experience and really just share everything. Questions hey, what are you doing with this? How is this working? Running into this issue, running into this problem, and so I've been very fortunate to have some really great mentors, but also, at the same time, you kind of got to push them a little bit too right.

Speaker 1:

Or ask the questions.

Speaker 2:

There's always a great wealth of knowledge out there. You just need to sometimes raise your hand and ask the question and not be afraid to ask it. Yeah, I was never afraid to ask questions because I was just like I'm a sponge. I'm just going to ask you a million and a half questions until I really understand it and then also reading. I mean there's an incredible amount of books out there that just have great insight.

Speaker 2:

You know, when I was at UNLV for my master's, I mean there was a great book called like why we Buy, and that's a whole book about the psychology of people making decisions on purchasing and how you purchase or how you design spaces, or how you design spaces such as I talked about, where when people come into a space you can decompress, or they take two or three steps in and you can recreate their entire environment to where their psychology changes. So if you're stepping in from New York and you're in a crazy hustle bustle street, how do you kind of overtake their senses and get them to focus on what you want them to focus? And that book is a really great book.

Speaker 1:

It's really cool, okay, um, and they, you know, even using mirrors.

Speaker 2:

So mirrors just naturally slow people down because they kind of see you know, in the peripheral, yeah, or they look in there or look at themselves in the mirror just always have this natural ability to look and it slows people down. So if you want to, if you want to take a space and have some people slow them down to then kind of focus on something that what's right after the mirrors you can use mirrors to do that that's powerful, really cool, or you can use mirrors to angle and it makes a space feel bigger.

Speaker 2:

So there's really cool spaces or books like that. Uh, walkability by jeff specks, another awesome book. It talks about what we're this conversation right now, what, what are the benefits of walkability? What is the benefits of neighborhoods? How powerful that is and how people just feel safer in, in those tight neighborhoods. I mean, you always hear that from new york, from austin, from these, you, from these individuals that are, these people that live there forever, their whole life. They don't even leave.

Speaker 3:

They're like this is my neighborhood, I've got everything.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, or they know everybody. They got their bodega, they got their bagel guy, their pizza guy.

Speaker 3:

And they're scared to leave almost yeah.

Speaker 2:

They're a little safe and they all take care of each other. Yeah, very much so. And even talks about with kids, like how beneficial it is to even slow down and walk your kids to school or, if you're within distance, ride your bikes together to school one day of the week. They did this great study in Columbia, where they did that because the smog was so bad that the mayor was like, okay, for one day we're not going to drive cars to help alleviate the smog. And what happened is all these parents and these kids started walking to school or riding their bikes to school and it greatly enhanced everybody's you know just happiness. The kids were happier, they got a connection with their parents more, and then when they said, okay, this has been a great experiment, everyone was like, no, no, no, we're going to keep doing this.

Speaker 1:

That's powerful.

Speaker 2:

So it's like it's something that was meant for something else and then it had this great sort of domino effect on the psychologist.

Speaker 1:

I love how you brought that up. Like I'm a big Italian food fan, I was just listening to some of the business owners that own it on in the North end in Boston and they talked about how the city and how they have taken care of each other and support each other and giving the other person sugar and all this different stuff. You know the competitor but it helps to rise the uh, you know, kind of the village per se. So this is exciting to see this man. I applaud you, yeah, I applaud you. Just business advice, just to kind of leave us out on what's one nugget you would, you would share with somebody that might be listening that you know, like you said, you worked in the corporate world and now you branched out to build your own. What would you say to them If somebody that's kind of on the fence trying to figure out if they want to put their vision?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you can always go back to corporate life.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that. I had a feeling. I mean, if you're- going to fail.

Speaker 2:

You'll just end up back in the corporate life, love it.

Speaker 2:

So you know, do it strategically. Have your savings, go, spend your time in your business model, work at night, whatever you have your free time. Just keep drawing, keep perfecting, keep modifying your business model and then, when you really feel it'll never be 100% right, there is a time where you have to do it. Got to go, yeah, go, and you're going to keep failing. Just keep plugging ahead and then you'll learn more. Going to keep failing and just keep plugging ahead and then you'll learn more. Learn more and learn more. And if it really, you tap out of your savings or whatever you got to go back to.

Speaker 3:

It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:

That's real. Yeah, that's real. We always ask all our guests about restaurants. I know you out eating. We talk about food stuff all the time. Give us give us of a restaurant you and your wife go to in Vegas. Oh man, I know you know a lot because we talk about it all the time there's a lot.

Speaker 2:

All right, I'm going to keep it local, okay, and I have to say goodbye, goodbye, they just said it last night.

Speaker 1:

Okay, just two in a row of goodbye.

Speaker 2:

Goodbye. Okay, obviously, my wife's a New Yorker. Okay, and they just do it right.

Speaker 1:

Shout out to Good Pie and I got to give it to them. Okay, it's two in a row, two podcasts back to back with Good Pie. Awesome, good for them. I know your biggest focus is origin, but I guess what do you want to leave us out on that? We might not have asked you that you want to share.

Speaker 2:

I would just say for anybody that's, you know, local, come and drive through. If you're down in that area, go down to main street, you know, go to good pie there's kitchen there you go, 1228, see, see what's happening down there. And go, go check out symphony park awesome, see all the cranes in the air. I mean just just see what's happening, because it's something very special, it's impressive yeah, it is a lot.

Speaker 2:

You'd be surprised. I mean, the first question we ask people when they when they come to the sales center is when was the last time you had Symphony Park? Yeah, Because from pre-COVID to post-COVID it is.

Speaker 1:

I mean people come in there like I had no idea this existed.

Speaker 2:

I didn't know this was going on down here. It's kind of hidden, though. Like you, can so. I would say just come and drive through, come check it out. If you have a kid, come take them to Discovery Children's Museum.

Speaker 1:

Go to Vicks, yeah the jazz club yeah, you introduced me to them. I forgot about Vicks. If you don't have kids, go to Vicks Go listen to some live music.

Speaker 2:

I mean, they have live music seven nights a week.

Speaker 1:

And again, this is a block down from the next you can walk down to Vegas. I forgot about Vegas Supper club.

Speaker 2:

You can have drinks dinner, watch a live jazz ball I mean it's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Go down there and check it out and see what's happening down there, because I think so many people are kind of get stuck in their own vision or whatever and they kind of feel like, oh, vegas doesn't have this, whatever, go check it out. And I think people are really going to be able to see it. And even now, with all the buildings and all the constructions happening there, people, this is a whole new energy. It's not so much you have to sell the vision anymore, now you can just see it. It's really, really cool.

Speaker 1:

Well, patrick, absolute pleasure. I love that you left us out on supporting the locals. I mean, that's why, Chris and I and my wife, we formed Vegas Circles, because we wanted to give people that platform, specifically the locals, to be able to share what's really happening. So appreciate you and applaud you and support you, man, I can't wait to buy my penthouse at Chello.

Speaker 2:

Towers. I look forward to it. So get me in there, man. I got you.

Speaker 1:

Appreciate you man. What's the social handle for it? Does it have a social handle?

Speaker 2:

Yes, chello Towers, chello Towers on social handle and out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, so check it out man, support patrick what he's doing and, uh, check us out the baker circuitcom.

Speaker 2:

so appreciate you, man, thanks a lot. Thank you very much, appreciate it.