Sleep Coaching for Babies & Moms with Chrissy Lawler The Peaceful Sleeper

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Meet Chrissy Lawler And Her Why

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Vegas Circle Podcast with your hosts, Pocky and Chris. We are people who are passionate about business, success, and culture. And this is our platform to showcase people in our city who are making it happen. And on today's guest, who is just that, I will welcome in a special guest, a licensed marriage and family therapist and the founder of The Peaceful Sleeper, helping families sleep better and live better. Let's welcome to the circle, Chrissy Lawler. Welcome to the colour. Yes. Okay. I was making sure I said it right. Shout out to Kelly Nomero, a friend of ours. She had uh spoke very, very highly of you for us. Kelly's really issues. She's a good area. She's amazing. So let's jump right in. What originally led you into marriage and family therapy?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Yeah, so I honestly I think like many therapists, it was family dynamics. My parents had a rough relationship, and I'm so much like my dad, and I could see my mom's perspective. And so even as like a 12 and 14-year-old, I kind of was just like, I was the oldest daughter, and just I got things, I was naturally compassionate, I could see perspective really well. And then I I always thought I wanted to be an oncologist, and then biology actually is not my strong suit, but I was gonna power through, and then I was like, you know what? I've been a therapist my whole life. I and on college no joke.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Yeah, that's no joke, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, so yeah, it just it was the right natural path. I really feel like I was made for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Yeah. You said something about seeing your family grow up as far as marriage and things like you must be speaking my language because I love my parents, but I don't want to put them on blast, but they've got crazy marriage. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

But I think that's the beautiful thing about our generation is that we're so emotionally aware and we're so in tune. And we are invested in bettering ourselves and looking at patterns and breaking the stigma and letting go of judgment and just figuring out like, okay, I I get why I am the way that I am, and what am I going to do about it?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

There is definitely a stigma shift, and I think you're right. It is like it's like almost like generation to generation. With one, a median. I think for most generations prior to this generation has had that stigma for hundreds of years. Yes. Like, what do you think of like a kind of perpetuator that propelled that stigma kind of shift in dynamic? Have you any thought on that or any study?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I think just people being open about it. I feel like now it's almost cool to go to therapy. Like my favorite thing is that I'm a therapist for like friend groups. Yes. You know, and so it's like, oh, this person's my therapist. You should go see her. And then before I know it, you know, I know 10 people in a circle, and then it's like, oh, art therapist. Like it's kind of something that you talk about at lunch and you talk about with your friends, and it's almost a signal of I'm invested in myself. And so I don't know. There the stigma's totally shifted. That makes sense. Everybody would benefit from therapy, and I think most of us know that.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

People wouldn't tell their friends even. Like I think now, like you know, I fight like I only fight in front of people. Like that's the only just I know it's all in the open. So I don't have no I'm biased.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

I only fight in front of people. That's so crazy. If you know Chris, that's Chris all day. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Oh yeah, who I'm right, huh? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

We'll approve.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

I probably need therapy too, but that's uh I think we all need therapy.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Because I think you need a backboard. Yeah. You need somebody to have a backboard. And one thing that I've I'm I'm 46, right? So as you continue to keep growing, it's like you have friends, you got your close family friends, you and certain people you probably don't need to be asking advice with. Yeah, it's nice to have somebody to have a professional perspective to kind of guide you in the right direction. Yep, for sure. Unbiased, I think it's definitely needed. 100%. When did you realize like sleep was the common thread showing up in so many of your clients' struggles?

The Therapy Stigma Shift

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Like when did that come up?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, so it's such an interesting, I don't know, universe thing, how it's all progressed. So I've been a licensed therapist for 15 years.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

Oh, congratulations. And I thank you.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

And I started noticing that all of my clients that were the most stuck had sleep issues of some kind. And I'm a perfectionist by nature. I love science. I want to dive into evidence-based strategies. And I hated that as a therapist, I was kind of sidestepping the sleep issue. Like, oh yeah, okay, you're not sleeping well. Try some lavender oil and meditation and like let's talk about the real issues. And so, kind of serendipitously, I got a mailer one day that was like a 30-hour continuing education course in advanced behavioral sleep medicine. And I was like, all right, yeah, actually, I want to learn more about this. So I signed up for this training and I found out that 80% of people with a mental health diagnosis have underlying sleep issues. And I was like, 80%? 80%, which is shocking, but also not that shocking.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Very true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Like we I guess it would be.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Yeah, I guess it's hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah, like we know that sleep is one of the most the biggest modifiable determinant of our mental and physical health. Sleep impacts literally every single function in our brain and body. So it's the underpinning of everything, it's our baseline of well-being. So I got trained to treat adult sleep issues and started incorporating that into my clinical practice. And then I had babies. And I was like, oh everything blew up. Yeah, like I know how to get adults to sleep well.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

How do you get kids? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

But yeah, how do you get a baby to sleep well? And one of the things that I learned in that training is that they're now thinking that postpartum mental health difficulties probably have more to do with the instantaneous and drastic sleep deprivation than even all the big hormone fluctuations. Wow. And so I experienced that. I've always been very happy and optimistic and bubbly, and I was so anxious and I didn't feel like myself and you know, didn't really want to do the things that I usually want to do. And it was really humbling for me to realize that I was experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

That's a real, real, real thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

It is, yeah. And I think I thought because I've always been happy and balanced and grounded, you know, I kind of thought that depression and anxiety couldn't happen to me. Eagle kicks in, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yep. And so realizing like I'm not thriving because I'm not sleeping well, I'm not experiencing motherhood the way that I always dreamed that I would. You know, I planned my baby, I had a wonderful marriage, I had an education, I'd wanted a child my whole entire life.

SPEAKER_05 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And so, with all of the resources there to support me, the fact that I was still struggling and I knew if I could sleep better, everything else will unfold well. It just made me super passionate at first, just personally.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

You know, I learned everything that I could about baby sleep. I figured it out for myself. And then I kind of became the friend in the friend group that would help all their babies sleep well. And then one thing led to another, and here we are.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

That's interesting. And are you still kind of like on both

Sleep As The Missing Piece

SPEAKER_02 6:55

worlds right now, or are you really just want to focus your future on kind of the sleep aspect of all of these fundamental issues?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yes, I'm very much in both worlds and kind of sewing them together. So I have a practice in Summerlin. We have seven therapists, and I do that for half of my time. And then the other half of my time is working on sleep consulting and the peaceful sleeper. And then I actually just started a nonprofit that blends the two even more, trying to make mental health care and infant sleep strategies more accessible to brand new moms, even from like day one in the hospital. You know, we have a lactation consultant that comes and visits you, and lactation is really important in the new baby journey.

SPEAKER_05 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

But they're only kind of giving you a quick nod to some safe sleep strategies, but nobody's telling you, here's how you look out for postpartum mental health difficulties, and here's how you keep your baby calm, content, and sleeping well.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

So is there like really, do you think they're going through this sleep process and kind of like you said, weaving these two aspects together? Do you think it's more important to kind of focus? Does it have to be like a therapeutic experience, like for long-term kind of navigation through the fundamental issue, or is it common behaviors that people are doing that you think are just driving these kind of you know results on people?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah, I think especially in the first six months of baby's life, I mean, therapy is always important. Therapy is great. And if you're not thriving in that adjustment, it's most likely because your baby's not sleeping well. And if we can get sleep buttoned up, then you have more bandwidth to focus on everything else that needs addressing. And so, you know, even from our asynchronous courses, people tell us all the time, like, oh my gosh, I was not okay until I, you know, took this class, improved my baby's sleep, got on the right track. So I think to answer your question, it's therapy is always important, but they're very cut and dry behavioral strategies that you can implement. And then everything gets better.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah, because it's like it'd be hard to kind of put a baby on a rhythm. Like I it's like really tough to navigate and kind of you know handle that aspect of it. Like, and it's but because or is there like so much different personality amongst babies that each one has to kind of be handled a different way?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

So, yes and no. There there is a lot of nuance, but I do think not to toot my own horn, but I think that's kind of my secret sauce in my method, is I've worked with literally thousands of babies at this point. And so I've kind of whittled down the formula to figure out here are the concrete things that we need to pay attention to. Here's how we account for nuance, here's what we're looking for to know how to modify a strategy, and we have a 97% success rate. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

That's fantastic. That's really good. I don't even, we should have met you a long time ago. Because I mean, my wife and we've been together 21 years, right? And it's it's it's wild because I look back at you go crazy when you have kids in that sleep time. Yep. People don't talk a lot about it. Like you literally, excuse me, you lose your shit when you're dealing with all of that. Because you're so you're so sleepy fighting, dealing with everything, because you're literally sleep deprived. Yes. So it's it's it's amazing that you came up with this concept of it. Like, how many sleeping disorders are out there? Is that is it like is there a bunch of different ones?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah, so there's about 60 different sleep disorders.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

60, wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Uh a lot of them are neurological, biological. I treat in the adult world, I treat insomnia.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Oh, okay. I think that's what my problem is.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah, with babies, you know, there's some they're neurologically so immature. And so it's figuring out, like, we can't really figure out all the different things that are going on that their brain hasn't even developed enough yet. But we know that sleep is critical for their mental and physical functioning. And so, kind of whatever their makeup is, we want to optimize sleep because that's going to give them the best chances

Postpartum, Babies, And Burnout

SPEAKER_00 11:00

of success.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

And I just like so now I'm seeing my my kids. I have, you know, twins that are nine and ten-year-old. They're starting to navigate sleep channels, but not that they don't sleep, but they're sleeping way too much. Like they're sleeping like, you know, 12 hours now. I'm like, where does the where does this come from? I don't know where you've never had these problems before. Like, so what are the kind of the phases of like the evolution of like these different sleep dynamics? Because the babies they were fine, you know, toddlers are great. Now they're moving into teenagers at this point. Now that's shifting. Uh and starting to have navigate those different challenges.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Yeah, I mean, our our sleep goes in cycles, and we have sleep regressions as babies, and then you know, I have four kids too, from 12 down to five. God bless you. He's got three.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

I really got two.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Four daughters, so pray for me in this case. I hear that. I have three daughters, so I get it.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Wow. I'll know y'all do it. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

So I mean, I'll be obviously I don't know that much about your situation. I usually lean on the like, there's no such thing as too much sleep. If our kids are wanting to sleep a lot, just let them.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

But if their sleep quality isn't good, then maybe they're sleeping more to account for that. So I would be curious about like obstructive sleep apnea or something that's impacting their sleep quality, maybe leading to them needing more. But usually I'm like, oh, you're a growing kid, let's get as much sleep as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

She looks comfy, I'll tell you that much.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

Block it out. Yeah. I heard a lot has to do with caffeine. Is that something that kicks a lot of people's butt? Is like that eight to twelve hour window before you go to sleep. It's like not trying to drink the caffeine or coffee or you know, energy drinks or whatever it is, tea in that period.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Yeah. I'm, you know, I love my morning coffee, and I really think caffeine should probably just stay in the morning in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Um, it a lot of the current advice is hold off on your caffeine until 30 to 90 minutes after you've woken up.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Yeah, I keep hearing that. Yes. A lot of us, I mean you heard two hours, yes. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

A lot of us roll out of bed and the first thing we do is push start on the coffee machine. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 13:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

So I mean, for optimal cortisol hormone regulation, all of that, we should probably wait, but definitely I think no caffeine after noon.

unknown 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Oh, afternoon. After noon. That's why I keep hearing that 10 to 12 hours or eight to twelve hours I keep hearing before you go to sleep at the end of the day. Amazing. How did the peaceful sleeper come to life? Like how did that all come together?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah. So I like I said, I've been a therapist for 15 years. I started my private practice in Dallas when my husband was in dental school. And then we moved out to Las Vegas 10 years ago because he got his first job out of dental school. And I I just kind of professionally had some time on my hands. It's kind of my favorite origin story. I had a full practice in Dallas, but this was kind of before telehealth. And so I got to Vegas and was starting over a little bit, and again became the friend in my friend group that was obsessed with helping everybody and their baby sleep. And I was just sitting on my laptop one night. My husband was carrying laundry up the stairs. And I was like, hey, I think I'm gonna like start a business where I help young moms get their babies to sleep better. And he, I'm like, I'm kind of the dreamer and schemer in our relationship. And so I just looked over as he was holding the laundry and he was like, Yeah, something at that. He's got a good supportive husband, that's all. And I was like, he I don't think he gets it.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Like I believe it, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I really mean at this time. Like, I'm I'm gonna do something different, and I think it's gonna be big.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

That's awesome. So when did when did this when was this like I would say baby born? Like when was the sleeper born?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

So the idea came ten nine and a half years ago when we moved here. It was probably like most new businesses, it was an idea that percolated for a while.

SPEAKER_05 14:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

I at first was gonna make a blog. I was gonna have just a really good website that people could link to and hear some good information. And then it was too long to be a blog, and so then I was gonna write a little guide and then it turned into a hundred-page book. So my goal was like this is something that a busy parent can read in less than an hour and just understand the fundamentals.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

And then I, you know, I always told myself, like, you can't help anybody if they don't know that you exist. And that was back in the day where Instagram was very curated. It was like the picture perfect mom with the kids

Blending Clinics, Coaching, And Nonprofit

SPEAKER_00 15:20

with the matching braids, and that's just everything had to be perfect. Yes, and that's not me. And so I was really afraid of Instagram for a while. And then one day I was like, you know what? Screw it. I'm just gonna put myself out there, let's do it. So we officially started August 2018.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

August 2018? Yep. Oh, it's one month before we we started July 2018. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. We wasted yeah, good yeah. You know what's crazy? We wasted like what two years, right? We wasted two years, and then I'm not gonna point somebody out, but then she yelled at me with saying, like, either let's do this or shut up, basically. So, but uh salute to that though. So, congratulations.

SPEAKER_05 15:57

Congratulations to you guys.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Thank you, thank you, thank you. So, what actually happens to our brains and emotions when we're chronically sleep deprived? I'm just curious. This is like a personal question for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

So yes, so I have been deep in the research as I've been preparing for my book, and there's a lot that happens in our brains and bodies when we are sleep deprived. So all of our emotion processing happens overnight. Your hormones reset, your amygdala resets. So that's where all of your yep, that back part of your brain that does all of your fight or flight. So when we're sleep deprived, this back reactive part of our brain stays amped up and the logical prefrontal cortex kind of sputters and slows. And so that's why we get really grumpy and reactive when we're sleep deprived.

SPEAKER_05 16:46

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

I think, you know, I always tell this story. We had a, I think we had two kids. We might have just had one. Tom was in dental school. I'd been up with a baby, I had a headache, he came home from school, and we just had this like snippy interaction that I think every married person can relate with, where you know, he was just being snappy, and then everything was short. And he finally, I threw up my hands and I was like, Why are you mad at me? And he's like, I'm just mad at you because you're mad at me. And I was like, I'm literally not mad at you. He's like, Well, you've seemed grumpy since I got home. And I was like, I'm literally just tired and I have a headache.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

You hear her laughing at the background. Yeah, yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah, yes, like how many of our squabbles are literally just because we are tired or hungry?

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Probably mostly honestly, it's probably 90% of our uh problems.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How like important do you think the sleep environment is? Like, is it like for me, I keep always trying to be, I'm not sleeping good because my bed or my pillows I have 45 different pillows, five different beds, and I still have the same experience. Like, is it really environment focused, or is it more like something else that needs to be kind of worked through?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

It kind of depends on the individual. So I think our society today doesn't lend itself well to optimal sleep. Most of us are watching TV in bed, we're hanging out in bed, we're on our laptop in bed, and you're probably scrolling until right when you shut off the light. So all of that is going to wreck your sleep. We know about blue light and all of that. Like we a hundred years ago, we would go to bed with the sun, you know, like it's it's not good all of the activity that we do right up until bed. Um, I think if people have good solid sleep habits, then you have a good base of a skill set to be able to initiate and maintain sleep well.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

If some of that breaks down, then you do need more of the support of the environment.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

So does your house need to be exactly 68 degrees in order for you to get a good night's sleep? Like it helps, but it's actually of the factors that matter. It probably matters more that you get off your phone, that you wind down, that you even just prioritizing sleep, knowing that it's important, you know.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Obviously, I'm horrible at it. So you're so right, though. You are so right.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

So often it's like, oh, sleep when I'm dead, like, oh, just one more episode.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Or if I'll text curl, I'm texting him at two in the morning. Like, we have to sleep in the literally, you're so right. You are so right.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

And so I've really tried, even with my own kids, just like, no, sleep is important. Sleep is a family value. And you know, when my kids wake up, like, did you sleep well? Don't you feel so good when you've slept well? Sleeping makes us so happy.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

I love you said that's a family value. I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that. Oh, that's a first for me. That's a good one. I'm gonna have to steal that from you. That's right. Sleep is a family value. That's very good. That's very good.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, and you know, I have four young kids, and our bedtime routine is good night, upstairs, off you go.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

And so, you know, mine's yelling and screaming and but that routine of that time slot, you're 100% right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

And I have kids that like, I'm tired, I'm gonna go to bed. Or, you

Strategy Over Guesswork For Infant Sleep

SPEAKER_00 20:05

know, like it's you can absolutely turn sleep into a family value when you prioritize it. And then just those small things like climbing into bed and just like, oh, you look at the clock and you're like, oh, it feels so good to go to bed before nine o'clock. I'm gonna feel so great tomorrow. All of that winds in that dopamine and the reward of sleep instead of framing sleep like laziness or indulgence. It's like, no, that's literally your superpower.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

I definitely do that. So I always have a big proponent of like, oh, sleep, no, work more, do more, do this, get this done, and then crash, and then hopefully you have a best experience. And it usually is not the case.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

And you know, we see parents nowadays where I'm starting to see it become more frequent, like because they are navigating these challenges instead of trying to get to those fundamental issues, like here, take a melatonin gummy. You know, how are you know how do you see that kind of impacting the development of the kids through that sleeping experience? Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Which is what Chris told me to do, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

I did tell him to do that. For him, though. Not for the kids.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

I'll just play it. I'll play it.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

So unfortunately, melatonin has kind of turned it into like sleep candy.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Which it really should not. Yeah. There's great data about melatonin for circadian rhythm difficulties, things like jet lag, or you know, if you have a time change or if it's a short-term intervention to help reset the body clock, melatonin can be great. So, like one or two days once a quarter, once a day.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

You're not making it a routine.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

There's good evidence for kids with autism or ADHD that like melatonin's not ideal, but sleep is so important that these kids that have a hard time self soothing and shutting off, like, we'd rather them just sleep well. So there's some evidence there. A new body of research suggests that taking melatonin taking extra melatonin can disrupt your hormone systems. Especially estrogen, I think it is. And so it's not ideal for our kids. Really, we want to teach them good sleep habits. And for adults, like uh, you know, don't just take the supplement. It's it's messing with your natural production of melatonin. Just prioritize sleep and get your sleep habits buttoned up.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

I don't want to jump too far ahead about your book. What would people expect to read in that book, right? You said it's coming out in March. Yep. Maybe it's just something like one. I don't want to say the whole cliff notes, right? But what would you say one thing that they could take from that book?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah, so it comes out in March. It's available now for pre-order. So it's called The Peaceful Sleeper. You can get it at Amazon, Target, Barnes and Noble, all the major retailers. My goal is that it helps parents in the first year of life navigate the world of baby sleep and parenting information and misinformation on the internet. So you know, if you guys haven't had little kids in a while, you might not know how intensely polarizing the baby sleep world is. Lots of information thrown out as fact when it's just blatantly wrong. And there's almost this like parental martyrdom of like, I'm not thriving, but my child is. So that's all that matters. Like I just need my baby to sleep. It doesn't matter that I'm not sleeping. It's okay if they wake up nine times at night. I'm just going to help them back to sleep because I'm such a good, nice, kind, and loving mother. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. You can absolutely optimize great sleep for your child. It's critically important for them. It's important for you. And teaching an infant to sleep well is good for them.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Is there one maybe strategy of teaching that to an infant? Is it is it something that you could share?

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah, so I kind of have my framework. My bigger tagline is getting good sleep is important. How you get there doesn't matter as long as you get there.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

So we just have to get good sleep for us and our children.

SPEAKER_05 24:05

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

In the first four months of life, that's when, you know, babies are brand, brand new. They have such an immature neurology. So we are just teaching them what the structure of good sleep looks like. So we have our four pillars of a good sleep foundation. That's getting good full feedings every time because the more

Teens, Caffeine, And Sleep Hygiene

SPEAKER_00 24:25

they're eating during the day, the less they'll need to eat at night.

SPEAKER_05 24:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

We are optimizing their timing. That's probably the biggest thing for a little baby is preventing overtiredness and recognizing those signals of when they're tired and getting them down. We're minimizing discomfort and keeping them more calm most of the time. So knowing the right soothing strategies. Once we've got those four buttoned up and we're at that four-month mark, that's when we can take that foundation and we can pull our hands off the steering wheel a little bit and say, hey, I've given you the structure. You know what this feels like. Now let's see what you can do on your own.

SPEAKER_05 25:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Kind of like when we teach our kids to ride a two-wheeler. It's like we don't just hand our kids a bike and say, like, hey, good luck, I'll be inside. Sure, sure, sure. We're teaching them the structure. And so then it looks like giving them an opportunity to fall asleep independently. Then they learn to lengthen their naps independently. And then finally they sleep through the night.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Is it bad? I'm just curious for per playing music, like the Zen music and Beethoven and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

So, no, in general, I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

I do that. I've been doing that for years.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah, no, I think that's fine as a sleep cue. I think it can be really helpful for our older kids. I don't like music playing all night long.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Yeah, we put a timer on it. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

So that's my only caveat. I think it's actually great for babies to have something that's calming, some kind of an external sleep cue. Sure. To know, like, hey, it's time to go to sleep. And for a lot of our older babies that might protest a little bit more, they it's it's kind of an interesting little hack that if there's something that they can listen to, they're less likely to cry. Because if I'm crying, then I can't hear the song. Sure. So I guess I'll be quiet and I'll just listen to this song and then fall asleep. But yeah, do put a timer on so it's not playing all night long.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

And even though it's like, is there so obviously we all know we wake up with an alarm most of the time. I'm assuming most people do. Like we're always disrupting those sleep patterns. Like you kind of pre-instill that in babies as well. Like, hey, we're gonna disrupt this pattern at some point in time. And is there a benefit to that disruptive pattern, or is it like better fall asleep earlier so you wake up well before your alarm even goes off?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

So I like to kind of match parental intervention with what is the baby's body telling us that they need. So most babies are gonna have a 12-hour night and they do well with kind of a certain nap schedule. So I always, when I'm in the sleep training process, I'll keep a sleep log for a week or two and say, like, hey, let's just see if we're not waking them up at a certain time, if we're not rigid to nap times and bedtimes, what is their body naturally doing? And then we just line up our schedule with what like, hey, you wake up between 7.15 and 7.45 every day. Cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Like try to do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Okay, great. Your first nap is gonna be two hours later. So nap number one starts at 9.45. Great, done. And then you can kind of get onto a clock-based schedule from there.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

You've done an excellent job with your brand, right? Honestly. Was looking at everything, you know, prepping for this. But what made you decide to turn, you know, this business into a brand? Because you've got a great brand that it that flows very, very well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Thank you. Yeah, you know, it kind of goes back to what I said before that I can't help people if they don't know that I exist.

SPEAKER_05 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

And so I realized it was it was more than me. It was bigger than just me. And I wanted a framework that, you know, I'm not just Chrissy, I'm not just some girl. I said from the beginning, I want to be park talk. When moms are at the park and they're talking about, you know, my baby's

Building The Peaceful Sleeper Brand

SPEAKER_00 28:06

not sleeping. I want it to be like, oh, you should follow the peaceful sleeper.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

And that's a great that's a great branding. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

So it's been fun, you know, like being out and about and people like, oh my gosh, are you the peaceful sleeper?

SPEAKER_03 28:20

And I'm like, I am. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

I just think I'm talking to myself sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Did you spend did you spend a lot of money like advertising and things like that? Or did it come more word of word of mouth?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah, I've spent almost no money advertising.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

Good for you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Which I mean has its ebbs and flows and ups and downs, because then I'm a little bit more beholden to the algorithm.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Sure. But yeah, it's it's doing doing it's doing what it needs to be. It's doing its thing. Yeah. Awesome. How do you balance being clinical with running your business?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

In many ways, it's it, I mean, both businesses have so much overlap. Probably my biggest challenge is more on the administrative front and being a boss because I'm a therapist. Like I'm super empathetic. I understand, you know, everybody. Yes, and everybody has limitations. And so sometimes, you know, if somebody doesn't get something to me by the deadline, I'm like, I get it. I didn't want to do it either. So I've definitely structured felt that pain point. Like, how do I be the empathetic, supportive boss that I want to be? You know, every single person that's ever worked for me has said that I'm their best boss they've ever had and they love working for me.

SPEAKER_05 29:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

But sometimes I don't have the structure that is needed to be a successful entrepreneur. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

I get it. And there's an art to that. There's an art to that for sure. Yeah. That's good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Hire an office manager. I think that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. I actually have an interview with one tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

That's that's huge. For business and just life advice, what advice would you give somebody that wants to turn their expertise into a service or brand?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Oh, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Yeah. I wanted to hear from you too, because you've done an excellent job with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah. I think my probably my biggest piece of advice is get out of your own way and just keep doing the thing. And I think for most new business owners, especially if you don't have a background in entrepreneurship, it's recognizing that nothing comes quickly or easily. So when you start a thing, plan on three years before you actually have a business that's humming along.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah. I keep hearing five to seven sometimes, man. Every year longer. Yeah. It's like it's amazing. But even one time in return, you know what I mean? Doing everything.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yes. Yeah. I think a lot of people that are passionate about something dip their foot out into the space. And when you don't get the big wins early on, it can be really defeating. Your ego gets all tied up into it. There can be a lot of like, oh, I guess I suck. I guess I'm dumb. Maybe nobody does want to hear what I have to say. And it's like, no, you just gotta keep doing the thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, focus on the passion, not the success.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

The success can't be the goal.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

The passion has to be the driver.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

And we've had a lot of people on that, you know, look at like, let's say if you're looking at the social media side, and they're like, you gotta stop looking at like the million overnight succession BS, excuse my language, but and look at it as like, you know, a Chris is a strategic person, is like the numbers with have you ever seen a hundred people in a room or five hundred people in a room or a thousand people in a room? That's big.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

And everybody wants to think of a hundred thousand and a million and you know, hundreds of millions of people. Yeah. Where just look at your niche, like you just said, the um I love what you said about the playground. That that's huge. That's a great way to niche your brand. Yeah. That's huge.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Yep, and I think you're right, focusing on impact, and I always bring it back to the one. You know, I'll have, I'll be out, I'll be at the grocery store at a brunch. And fortunately, you know, because I'm in such a tender, vulnerable space, you know, it really strikes on the heartstrings. And so I'll have a mom come to me that I've never met before, and she'll have tears in her eyes, and she'll say, like, you made me enjoy being a mom. Like, you actually changed my life. I was in such a dark place until I found you.

What Sleep Deprivation Does To Your Brain

SPEAKER_03 32:05

Oh, well, that's great. That's not great to be all the money you can pay for for something like this.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah, and you know, being on social media sucks sometimes, and they're trolls, and it's annoying. And I've thought about quitting a dozen times. And it's like, you know what? But there's that one mom that I looked into her tear-filled eyes, and I know that I made a difference. And she would have been in a dark spot if she hadn't heard that message that I had on that day. It's finding those anchors that help you keep going.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Yeah. Chris, that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Because that's real, that's real. It's right. Like that's funny when Chris and I and my wife were building this, like same, you know, month after right before you is like we didn't want to just be pushing out content. Yep. We wanted to really build real business people and real people to our culture and really making it invalid, right? That just trying to just bring people on just to sugarcoat it. Yeah. So we wanted real folks like that. I'm so happy you say that because it's it we need more real people like yourself. Yeah, honestly. Really do. Yeah. Switching paces for for a second. I love food. I'm a big foodie.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

What's your favorite restaurant in Vegas? We'd love to know.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

You know what? I really like La Straga. Have you been there?

SPEAKER_03 33:13

That's my son. Our our youngest son. That's our favorite. He wanted to go there tonight. Matter of fact, literally. We flew with this board. He loves La Straga. Yeah. Yeah. Great Italian restaurant. Yep. And good local. It's off the strip. Yep. Great Italian restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

I mean, I I love Vegas food. We've got such a great restaurant. We've got so many great restaurants here.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Yeah, we do. I'm glad you said Lestraga. That's why we got the same palette. Yeah. Um what's something that maybe we forgot to ask you that maybe you want to leave us out on? Man, you have so many gems in this in this interview. What's something that maybe you want to leave us out on? I know you got the book coming up in March, but what's something else that uh maybe you want to leave us out on?

SPEAKER_00 33:47

I think, you know, for anybody listening that knows a young mom, be compassionate and tell her that she's doing a great job. I think moms are, gosh, it's gonna make me cry. I think moms are really, really hard on themselves. We love our kids so much. We are constantly second guessing. Like, am I good enough? Am I doing enough? Am I setting my kids up to thrive? And a compliment, a meaningful compliment from somebody that says, I see you, I see what you do for your children, I see the love that you pour into them. That stuff that she holds on to literally for years.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

Yeah. I think you are 1000% right on what you just said. Yeah, because that's that's everything for sure. One thing that I forgot to ask you, and I I love that you left on it. I don't want to I don't want to backtrack, but I wanted to ask you one maybe advice you can give for sleep advice for adults. Is this something that you could just maybe say that's one advice that uh you can leave us out on?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah, you're not gonna like it. It's the worst advice ever. Okay. Um, or it's the the least fun advice ever. But get out of bed if you're not sleeping. The worst thing you can do is lay in bed awake, trying for the sleep fairy to come. Get out of bed if you're not sleeping. Just get up and just get up, do anything else, and go back to bed when you're tired enough to fall asleep.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

I've never heard anybody say that before.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yeah, it's one of those gems.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

I just stay in bed like an idiot jumping out.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

I always get up and take a shower and go back. That's what I usually do.

Habits, Environment, And Family Values

SPEAKER_02 35:20

And you go you go to sleep. Well, it's most of the time, like to your point if it's 20 minutes later.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah, because what happens is it's such a cognitive behavioral weave of I can't fall asleep, I can't sleep, I can't sleep, I can't sleep, I can't sleep. You just get stuck in that wires your brain to associate the bed as the place where I can't sleep, and I wish that I could sleep. Instead, it's like, hey, if you can't sleep, off to the living room, you go. Yeah, come back here when you're ready to sleep. It's almost like, and I know we don't really do this anymore, but it's almost kind of like dinner time with young kids. Like, hey, this is what dinner is. If you don't want to eat this, then you can have breakfast in the morning.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

That's real. And you know, kids all one or two nights and you know what?

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Broccoli's not so bad anymore.

SPEAKER_05 36:05

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

And so we're kind of calling the bluff on our sleep system and not letting your sleep system get away with junk sleep, which is rest, right? Because rest still does something for you, but it's not good enough.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Yeah. I think there's a good one. Chris, that is awesome. It honestly is, and I'm not just saying this, this is a very impactful interview for me. And I'm looking forward to seeing your book come out in March. Thank you. Where can people reach out to you? What's your social handles that people have?

SPEAKER_00 36:30

The peaceful sleeper. So the dot peaceful.sleeper. Yeah. You can find me online, the peaceful sleeper.com, and that's my handle for all the social channels.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

Well, shout out to Kelly and Merrill. She you lived up to the hype. Yeah, I'm being serious. Yeah, you that that was very, very good, man. And guys, for our listeners, really pay attention to what Chrissy's doing. I think you're making a big impact. And uh, I think it's awesome. So definitely check us out at Vegasur.com and uh subscribe with us. So thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

Thank you, Chris.

unknown 37:00

Um I found another um another blue.