Have you ever wondered what it's like to create a groundbreaking device that could change the lives of millions?
Meet BE Alink, today's guest and the innovator behind the Alinker, a revolutionary three-wheeled walking bike designed to challenge traditional perceptions of disability and make mobility devices cool and accessible.
In this episode, BE takes us through the process of designing the Alinker, its reception, and the significant therapeutic benefits it offers, especially to people with Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson’s Disease, and other neurological conditions.
At the end of the day, the Alinker is more than just a bike; it's a community builder, connecting people from all corners of the globe and providing a sense of belonging to those who may have felt isolated before.
Listen to discover the incredible journey of BE Alink and how her innovative problem-solving approach is making a profound impact on the lives of individuals with mobility challenges worldwide.
The Culture Ministry exists to create inclusive, accessible environments so that people and businesses can thrive.
Combining a big picture, balanced approach with real-world experience, we help organisations understand their diversity and inclusion shortcomings – and identify practical, measurable actions to move them forward.
Go to https://www.thecultureministry.com/ to learn more
If you enjoyed this episode and maybe learnt something please share with your friends on social media, give a 5 star rating on Apple podcasts and leave a comment. This makes it easier for others to find A Dog Called Diversity.
A Dog Called Diversity is proud to be featured on Feedspot's 20 Best Diversity And Inclusion Podcasts
Thanks for listening. Follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.
Have you ever wondered what it's like to create a groundbreaking device that could change the lives of millions?
Meet BE Alink, today's guest and the innovator behind the Alinker, a revolutionary three-wheeled walking bike designed to challenge traditional perceptions of disability and make mobility devices cool and accessible.
In this episode, BE takes us through the process of designing the Alinker, its reception, and the significant therapeutic benefits it offers, especially to people with Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson’s Disease, and other neurological conditions.
At the end of the day, the Alinker is more than just a bike; it's a community builder, connecting people from all corners of the globe and providing a sense of belonging to those who may have felt isolated before.
Listen to discover the incredible journey of BE Alink and how her innovative problem-solving approach is making a profound impact on the lives of individuals with mobility challenges worldwide.
The Culture Ministry exists to create inclusive, accessible environments so that people and businesses can thrive.
Combining a big picture, balanced approach with real-world experience, we help organisations understand their diversity and inclusion shortcomings – and identify practical, measurable actions to move them forward.
Go to https://www.thecultureministry.com/ to learn more
If you enjoyed this episode and maybe learnt something please share with your friends on social media, give a 5 star rating on Apple podcasts and leave a comment. This makes it easier for others to find A Dog Called Diversity.
A Dog Called Diversity is proud to be featured on Feedspot's 20 Best Diversity And Inclusion Podcasts
Thanks for listening. Follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.
Welcome to a dog call diversity and this week I have one of the most interesting, fun, cool, just, you know. So I guess a little bit out there, but in a such a good way. Such a good way. Welcome to the podcast bee. How are you? Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:Lisa, I've been out there, well what?
Speaker 1:Okay, let's talk glasses.
Speaker 2:Oh, glasses. Okay, well, you start because you've got pretty out there glasses.
Speaker 1:I do have out there glasses and I always appreciate when other people do so. My glasses are kind of pale blue and they've got pale pink sides and I picked them because they kind of match my pink and blonde hair, which I like and what are you wearing.
Speaker 2:They kind of look like the Dame Edna sort of thing with that they do a little bit, but like a modern Dame, edna. Yes.
Speaker 1:And I love that you know who Dame Edna is. Oh, she's awesome she's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my glasses I found in the Netherlands my friend from high school is a juror and she has a few other things in her window as well which was a box with designer glasses Very cheap. I don't think designer glasses like hundreds of euros, not, they're like 30, 30 euros or something, I don't know. But I saw them and I fell in love years ago now and I was wearing yellow glasses at that time and that was very different until other people started wearing yellow glasses.
Speaker 2:I was like that's not different anymore, it's not fun, so I have to find other glasses. So I was on a bit of a search and then I saw those. I was like, ah, that's it. I'm a non-binary without any titles, by the way, but I'm not a typical fitting in the binary system. So it's round a glass on my right eye and a nearly square glass on my left eye. So it totally reflects who I am. Really Totally Anything, and it's false.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that your glasses are a bit out there, like mine, and I met that with the utmost respect and kindred spiritness. I guess I would say yes, yeah, but why don't you tell us? You know you, obviously. You grew up in the Netherlands, but you're not there now. So tell us a bit about growing up and then you know how you ended up in Canada.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, it's a bit of a journey. Yeah, I grew up in the Netherlands but actually never understood, never felt that my home country was the Netherlands. When I was five or six or something, I heard about the storks, and the storks were nearly extinct in the Netherlands, but I sort of were special to the sort of nearly mythical animal, and when we saw them, like once a year, they came back and then they started breeding on those long poles with the nest on top of it next to the farms, yeah, and I heard that they had another home country because they were migratory birds that went to Africa. By the time the, you know, fall set in the Netherlands and I was like another home country. Oh, so I'm not stuck here. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:And so I was very young when I had that sense of like I don't understand where I live and this is not my country. Well, of course I'm born and raised there. So I'm sort of born and raised in a culture, but not being a very typical boy or girl, I didn't quite fit in the culture and the sort of the paths that are, you know, paved out for typical boys and typical girls. There was no path for me and I was like I don't understand who I am here and always look to go somewhere else. I always looked like what is that other home country? So I traveled quite a bit. I had to reinvent myself. I always say is, if you don't fit in the construct of the society where you are, you have to reinvent yourself Like who am I in this construct? Who am I on this planet, here or anywhere else? And so I kind of made it my. It sort of became the story of my life that I had to reinvent myself wherever I went, because I wasn't home in my own in my own country, and I wasn't I anyway.
Speaker 2:I left the Netherlands because I didn't fit in and so I went to other countries and in retrospect I think I placed myself, for example, as a white person between black Kenyans, because now I could see it coming that I was the weirdo because I placed myself there. So I took control of my own life by placing myself as the other, as the exception, in an area where or in a location where I was not like anybody else who lived there, which felt very familiar, obviously, but at least I could see it coming. I couldn't, I didn't understand why I was the weirdo in my own culture and when I placed myself in other cultures. Of course I'm the weirdo, I'm the exception, but I did that. So I took control of my own life and that wasn't as apparent to me when I did that, but I think it, retrospected, had everything to do with understanding where I and now I'm in Canada, after 10 years of international work In the Netherlands.
Speaker 2:I became a woodworker, certified woodworker, and then a restoration architect. And then, you know, your life starts living, living you like, you know, becoming an architect, a job, house partner, all that crap. And I became un-luckier and un or not un-luckier, un-happier, and I thought I need to make myself happy again. So I left for Kenya. So this is a long story how I got to Kenya, but anyway, I got to Kenya in the slums of Kisumu and I started making coffins with the street boys and girls.
Speaker 2:You made coffins, coffins, because that was in the time that AIDS was quite rampant and one out of three people there was infected, and top that up with malaria and meningitis and all that stuff. People died left, right, center, and I lived in the slums, and in the slums people did not have money for a coffin. So even you already live in the slums, you're already under poverty line or whatever, and then there's no line actually in Kenya.
Speaker 1:What made did you choose to live in the slums? Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:To have that experience Well yeah, it sort of feels familiar to live on the edges of society.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can.
Speaker 2:I just like. I mean that's where I feel more, most alive. When I'm on the edge of things yeah. When I'm in the thick of where yeah, on the edge.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I I thought it was a justice issue to me that people that were already poor didn't even have the money for the last dignity in their lives to have a coffin at the funeral. And so I had never made a coffin before, obviously. But I figured out. It's not, woodwork is not rocket science, you need to practice it, but it's really not rocket science.
Speaker 2:so you can sort of say, oh, that's how that works, it's mechanical so you know, and so I looked around in the local wood workshops and what I realized is that raw timber was very cheap and plain timber was very expensive. I was like I can plan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what I did is I thought that's woodworking 101.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. I taught the street boys and girls to plane raw timber into plain timber and we made really cool coffins for nearly no money. And so we made coffins for the poorest people to at least have dignity at their funerals.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. You didn't tell me that story when we first discussed.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a lot of stories that I haven't told you yet.
Speaker 1:Tell me, though have you found your place in Canada, whether it's on the fringe or you?
Speaker 2:know if you found your home.
Speaker 2:I live everywhere In my head, in my, out of this body, in the world, in the different universes. I have learned that this consensus reality that we live in is not the only reality that we live in. This is a temporary expression of who we are, but this is not everything. As long as we think this is everything, we're stuck in, that we don't have enough money, don't have enough time, all that stuff that are agreements in this consensus Like. I didn't agree to this consensus reality, so it's my.
Speaker 2:What is my consensual reality? A friend of mine uses the word consensual and I think that's beautiful because it you say consensus realities, as if we all agree to this, but I never mindfully agreed that this is the only reality that's there. So she said what is my consensual reality? There's parts of this that I'd like to give my consent to, because I do have a body that needs to be fed and that needs to, you know, have a roof over the head. But what is my consensual reality, which makes me a discerning person Like this is where I want to participate. This is not where I want to participate, but it makes you aware of who we are in the systems around us that destroy our own existence.
Speaker 1:Sorry, let me ask this then Is sense of place important? And I probably mean that from you know, when you, when I learn about Indigenous peoples of different lands, you know the land and the place has meaning and purpose, and you know, do you have that now? Do you have a sense of place that's important or that sense of place is not as important? Because no, I do think.
Speaker 2:I'm starting to learn that I did come to Canada for a reason and that is a direct link with the Indigenous people of this land and that is very important In the West with kind of Western countries beyond North America.
Speaker 2:I kind of lost the you know with mass agriculture and big industrialization and, you know, going from money and seeing trees as a more valuable thing after dirt cut and all that kind of stuff is really important and that's not how we can live. So I think the essence of being back I say back because I do think I've had history here Back here is for reasons of reconnecting with the values that we need to live in reciprocity with the land. Not going back, because people always say like, oh, do you want us to go back to the old times and where you know it's not going back, but it is reconnecting with the values that make us human again, instead of just predators and destroyers and abusers of everything that we actually rely on. We're part of nature and we've managed to indoctrinate whole civilizations to think that we're powerful and in charge of something and not part of nature. Now we live in a drama of climate crisis and I'm like we don't live in a climate crisis, we live in an existential crisis.
Speaker 1:And if we don't.
Speaker 2:as long as we look at the problems outside of us to try and fix them, we're still killing ourselves because we're continuing to eat. I mean people that eat meat are still at climate races. Really, you complain about the climate but you don't put one and one together if the meat industry is actually yes. Responsible for 20% of the crap that's going on in the bothers, the environment.
Speaker 2:Completely, you don't put those things together, then you know it's a bit of a problem. But so the separation is yeah. Anyway, reconnecting with those values is and that's for me at this moment here. Where that is next year, I don't know yeah, but for now I'm really happy. I live in a tiny little place in my little workshop here. I don't ever live in a room, it's just a workshop and it's brilliant.
Speaker 1:And I want to get on to your workshop.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you're here, I do.
Speaker 1:I do because I don't watch TV. I you know I'm. So I contacted you because I was so interested in I was going to say device, but it's not a device in your body, it's in your bike, your incredible bike, and but you're, you are so more than this incredible thing you've created, but I want to talk about that incredible thing you've created anyway. So tell us about the a linker. So maybe I describe a bit about what it is and and I know you were trying to solve a problem with it, so tell us about that.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to solve a problem with it. I don't believe in problems. Actually, I think that what we are, that what we are conditioned to see, is to or condition to look for, is problems, then trying to fix them, completely missing the point that those problems are actually symptoms of a system, and then you're perpetuating the systems that you're trying to. You know, poverty, for example, is not a problem. It's a symptom of the system that needs poverty to maintain the wealth of other people. So as long as we battle poverty or racism, same thing you battle racism. Then you miss the point that it's actually a tool of this society to keep us separated very effectively. So anyway, to the bike. Which tell me about the bike, because I love the bike.
Speaker 2:The thing with with with the linker is I. I use it as a vehicle for change. The linker came out of my. This is sort of embodiment of my thought process about the world, about things that I see. So when my mother and I walked on a little marketplace in the Netherlands and we walk past some people that sit on a bench, you know telling each other's lat the latest gossip in the villages. They had some scooters and rollators and next to them and out of the blue, my mom said over my dead body will ever use one of those things.
Speaker 1:So like a mobility scooter, or maybe one that has handles in a seat. Was that?
Speaker 2:the kind of thing you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, just the regular mobility assistive devices that are available. Yeah, and did two things. One she caught herself on her judgment about those people and put herself like, oh, I'm aging and I might become in need of one of those things. So she caught herself on judgment and put it into my viewfinder as a designer yeah you don't, you need, you don't think of things until somebody launches them into your viewfinder.
Speaker 2:And with that comment of my mom it became apparent to me that assistive devices emphasize the disability because they are designed for a body with a problem, not for who we are as humans. We are not a body with a problem that needs logistically moved from a to B in a better way or an easier way. We are whole human beings who'd like to be active and engaged, fun and, you know, feel good. So that the emphasizing the disability on top of that is like. You know, we're not very comfortable around disabilities Because of the judgment of my mom. They go mm-hmm, I don't want to be like that, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I was like why would you emphasize the disability if we know that it makes people uncomfortable? That's nearly a sort of subconscious but very deliberate way to make mobility devices not cool, because then we can other them and not have to be confronted with the discomfort that we feel if we have to think about our own vulnerability as a human being and she happens to us. So it became a bit of a justice issue instantly, like if something emphasizes the disability, it creates a divide between people with and without disabilities, and that is a justice issue. Why? Why is that I can go to a bike shop get the coolest bike, but the moment I have a disability, there's nothing cool that you can get, or exorbitantly expensive.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Like little wheelchairs that are $10,000 or 15 or 20, like all sorts of the cooler equipment is extremely expensive and not covered by insurances often so, and that's a whole different story and how we do that, but anyway, Focus.
Speaker 1:You choose your rabbit holes today, Lisa. Yeah, I'll choose the rabbit holes and we might go down that one because I think that one's really interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:So for the listeners here, the linker is a three wheeled walking bike. It's got two 16 inch wheels at the front and one eight inch wheel at the back. That is that you don't run over your own angles. There is an overarching frame that goes to the two wheels in the front, one in the back with the seating assembly on top and then in. You know, in designing this whole thing it was like I don't really make sense to have two wheels in the front. You can take big wheels, of course, because you can take thresholds easier, yeah, and one wheel in the front you make the tipping line in the direction where you go. So you make it really tip like most tricycles and put the two wheels in the front. It's like oh, that's why that is. It's actually really difficult to engineer with to the steering properly, yeah, but stable, it's way more stable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But very hard to engineer. So people say like, oh my God, why is it so expensive? It is so simple. It's like, well, look inside the tube to see how simple it is to engineer a complete Acomon steering that that makes it so smooth and easy to navigate.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and it's bright yellow, obviously I love that it's bright yellow, because that is the coolest color and it it reminds me of when little kids are learning to ride a bike, a run bike. Where a run bike it has it has two wheels, a front and a back, but no pedals, and so kids are starting to learn to balance. So it's kind of like that concept, although you've made it a bit more steady from the balance point of view, which I think is a great thing, and run bikes are cool and people with mobility issues do have a balance issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it's so cool. Who I mean I'd love to know is your mum. If your mum is still alive, is she using it? She passed, she passed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because of COVID, but in that, no, that's, it's totally fine actually, which is always funny to say. She's like what do you mean? But she was 83. She had unbearable cancer and we ended it together. It was great, it was really. I was there it was during the first wave of COVID as that mum, I'm here, not going to go anywhere. I can't go anywhere. So I'll spoil the clap out of her and we spent a few months together and it was fantastic. It was really really beautiful.
Speaker 1:I love it. So who are the main users of your bike? You know who gets the most out of your bike.
Speaker 2:Stubborn people.
Speaker 1:Stubborn people.
Speaker 2:People that don't think further than what they see in front of them, like people generally that have Google to your linkers, like there has to be something better than the crap that I'm finding in the shops. Yeah, very often the thing that they're saying, so in their minds they're already sort of nearly inventing the linker. There has to be something better than this. Then they see the linker and that slot thing is like oh, there it is, that's it. That, totally of course. And then they get it changes their lives. And something that the design that's Lisa that I did not realize as much when I designed it is that people are at a level as they are supported on a seat, so you walk on wheels. In fact, what that does I didn't know, but it comes from all the I mean the whole design process and and onwards I talk to people and listen to people and watch people. What's happening there? Like I'm a specialist on so many disabilities now, many of the disease that I've never heard about. Yeah, or, I got this.
Speaker 2:But what I also learned is a lot about the medical system, how that currently works. People with MS once they get finally sometimes after years of symptoms finally get diagnosed with MS a very standard things thing that they hear from their doctors is like get used to the idea of a wheelchair and here's your medication, instead of saying how much do you move, what do you eat, what are you eating, what is the food that you put in your system? They don't do that. So I was like but it's really important how much we move and how we move and it's really important what food we put in our bodies. It's sort of we're sort of a biological thing that needs certain biological things. Great Well, and when you put toxins in that body might actually get sick. Currently, 60% of North Americans has at least one diagnosed chronic illness.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's massive.
Speaker 2:That's processed food and meat and the meat industry is. That's completely toxic. The crap that's 80% of antibiotics that's produced in the world goes to the meat industry, goes inside cows and pork and things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:And people that eat meat, of course, eat all that stuff, never mind all the abuse that's going on and that stores the body. But yeah, so I do think there's a very direct link between food and illnesses, but doctors don't, they don't ask, yeah, and I think they just do it with medication and I'm like, oh, so what's happening? Why is the medical system so driven into medicating and not into food or movement?
Speaker 1:Well, we have to keep the pharmaceutical industry alive.
Speaker 2:And the food industry.
Speaker 1:The food industry feeds the pharmaceutical industry. Okay, it doesn't feed people.
Speaker 2:It feeds the pharmaceutical industry, quite literally.
Speaker 1:But when I?
Speaker 2:say those things. People always say like oh, you're a conspiracy thinker. They're like no, just look what's going on. Like why are we so blind to things that are so blatantly in front of us? Yeah yeah, it's really weird, Like I am eating plant-based and then people attack me for being vegan. I'm not vegan, as in the I you know. Yes, I don't like it when animals are abused, obviously that's a very sick thing to do.
Speaker 2:That whole industry is completely sick. But I eat plant-based for my own health and but people attack you. They say, oh, that's very extreme not to eat. I was like, well, you can question what is actually extreme that you put stuff in your mouth that is being abused and filled with antibiotics, and that's not extreme? The calves are separated from the mums and all the you know meal. Chicks are slaughtered and slurped up and just mulled over alive. That's not extreme. You get your eggs. Yeah, I'm not sure what is extreme.
Speaker 1:So one of the I wanted to ask you about the users of your bike. So people who have MS are one. Why is it so good for people with MS or multiple?
Speaker 2:I think I think multiple sclerosis. I think multiple sclerosis got a lot of attention because Selma Blair one day posted herself on the Ellinger on my Instagram as it exploded and I had to look up who Selma Blair was, because I'm not very.
Speaker 1:Why were you being?
Speaker 2:Well, I was 10 years international work and I was kind of under a rock. Of course, when you're an entrepreneur trying to do something, that's completely impossible. So, yeah, I missed a lot of movies and films and films and music and that kind of stuff that happened in those 10 years nothing. And then after coming to Canada, I wasn't really catching up with that either, so I had no idea who Selma Blair was. But my Instagram exploded and then people with MS who follow Selma because she's very loved, saw the Ellinger, got exposed to the Ellinger because of Selma. So I think, yes, it's very good for people with MS and had somebody with a stroke be the celebrity that got on the Ellinger, that we would have had a much bigger portion of people with stroke. So depends a little bit, I think, on what gets the focus with the celebrity and we live in a celebrity culture, so a celebrity endorsement's work to get it exposed to more people.
Speaker 2:But why it works with people with MS and many other people is because when you sit and walk at the same time, you exert pressure on your sit bones as you walk and we don't walk with our legs. Sounds a bit extreme. Again, I'm a little bit extreme. Apparently you walk with your brain. You send intentions. As a person who can walk, you send intentions to your brain. That gets translated by your nerves and to translate it to your muscles.
Speaker 2:You walk, but there's a feedback that goes back to your brain because if you're on uneven grounds your brain needs to be able to correct it. So if we walk, there is a constant feedback. Look between your brain and your legs, arms, body. If we interrupt that feedback loop by sitting, your brain doesn't get the information to try and make the connection. If you activate your brain because you walk, as you're exerting pressure on your sit bones, your whole spine in fact becomes a highway of information to your brain and the brain loves the work. So if you activate, it's like oh, I think something down, is there, I'm gonna try and make a connection with that.
Speaker 2:People with MS have lesions in the brain, lesions in the spine, the brain, or neuroplasticity, as you might hear that term more and more because we're starting to understand that neuroscience is actually a thing and that activating the brain is actually a thing and it can create new neural pathways or reroute neural pathways around the lesions. We have people that and I saw it with Selma. Actually I met her in Chicago and she had spastic dystonia with that affected her voice and she spoke very interrupted and she got on the linker, did two rounds, came back and talked 100 miles an hour. Did she do that?
Speaker 1:on purpose to show you how it worked.
Speaker 2:No, she didn't even realize that was happening.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:We've got a guy here with Parkinson's that lives in Vancouver and the daughter said can you, can my dad try and link her in his assisted living? I wasn't sure, so I went there. He had to search for every word so he talked extremely slowly. You really had to sort of step back and let him find his words. He gets on your linker. He races through the yard used to be an athlete but races and then we meet him in the courtyard and he talks 100 miles an hour. And Sean, his daughter, was looking at me. She was like what? He didn't realize.
Speaker 2:There's a guy on Capitol Hill who's got MS and he couldn't swallow anymore. Three weeks after using the linker he can swallow again. These are not accidents, these are not, oh, coincidences. Here and there I've seen it so many times. Jennifer, who works with us now on customer service, couldn't speak, nearly affected by her MS. There's a video of Jennifer three months after using the linker. She talks 100 miles an hour. There's no wavering anymore. She talks 100 miles an hour and we, because she's so damn good at what she's doing, we hired a whole customer support. That is activating of the brain.
Speaker 2:You don't get rid of MS, but it allows you to get around to symptoms of MS, and I think mobility is medicine, movement is medicine. And it is super important that we're not looking for comfort, because people, very often with the Linker, they say like, oh, that's a lot of work. So if you look for comfort, then go ahead, get a wheelchair, yeah, or a scooter or something, but it's not what our bodies need. Like 60% of people that use wheelchairs and wheelchairs are great if you need them, but there's 60% of people that do use wheelchairs because there was no alternative. They can still use their legs and if you can still use their legs, there's a very good reason to keep moving it Because it actually activates the rest and so.
Speaker 2:But you know, in this culture we're really trained to have comfort food. It sounds good, comfort food kills, and to look for comfort, not moving, also kills us. But it has a positive connotation. Maybe we should stop looking for comfort. I mean temporary comfort. It's nice to have a dry bed and to have a roof over your head, for sure, but the state of comfort is a state of being dead alive and we should really stop doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wanted to ask you and I was careful. At the start I think I used the word device and then I said no, no bike you have stayed away from. I guess calling it a medical device Tell me about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, very in the beginning. In the beginning I thought, oh, I need to certify this. My class wanted medical device and I was looking into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so then people can access it when they have maybe accessibility or yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would invite anybody to try and apply for wheelchair and the debilitating process that is. Plus that you lose your agency in that whole process because now you have to go to a doctor or an OT or a PT or whatever that prescribes it to you. So you need to get them on board to prescribe the thing that you want. That often doesn't even happen because they have their own opinion. You have lost them and that you just use this because that's the end. And exceptions, of course, are there and luckily, but the mainstream you don't get the device that you actually want.
Speaker 2:Plus, I learned from one of the medical suppliers here in Canada that if they were to sell the olinker through their shops it would have to sell as three times as much as that I'm selling it for, Because the medical system and if you want to get it back from insurance you have to sell it through certified suppliers. That takes a huge portion, that takes a huge margin. That whole process in between, that whole margin, doesn't benefit the people that need the olinker. But we live in a system where our medical system drives people into our social system, drives people into poverty. The moment you have a diagnosis or an accident or an incident or something happens to you.
Speaker 2:And then people who are driven into poverty now need the olinker and can't access it. There's two very different things. People say, oh, you're ripping off people with disabilities and like, not so much probably, but I get it that you feel that we do that because the whole world is that there is whole industries that take advantage of people with illnesses and disabilities. So, yes, I understand that you think I'm just the next company who does that, but we're not. If we're selling the olinker for one third of what that would be selling it through certified suppliers, if it were to be paid by insurances, you would probably get half of that back. We're already selling it for less than half of what it would be. And then we're offering 0% rent to own and we something that I'm really proud is a weird word, but I'm very happy we went that route.
Speaker 2:We created crowdfunding campaigns and we were the very first company in the world that had an integrated platform for crowdfunding campaigns integrated in our website, so you can go to our website, start your individual campaign for an olinker and it is designed, are designed in such way that people don't deal with the money because you get penalized when you're on disability or when you're on welfare, we get penalized. When you raise money to get an olinker, for example, yeah, no, no, we penalize you. So I designed it that at the end of the campaign we get money, they get an olinker, and in the meantime we hire olinker users who were campaigners before, who help you build the campaign, will help you build the community, etc. Etc.
Speaker 1:That is so cool.
Speaker 2:At least that's so cool 42 campaigns have completed so far 242 people that could never have afforded an olinker. Don't only have the olinker, also have a community that showed up from in the time that they thought nobody gave a fuck about them anymore.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 2:Because people are isolated, right, they're kicked in the curb by society. They're completely isolated and they think nobody cares anymore. So to do a campaign because many people started to think, well, I don't have any network anymore, like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then total strangers show up to help them get an olinker and they're like people care, people give a shit about me, Wow, and that creates a society. That creates a whole community of people that were kicked in the group and now have a whole community. There's a Facebook group a closed Facebook group, with active olinker users around 1300 people. That's one third of all the olingers that we sold in the world so far. One third is on an active Facebook group. Yes, and all those campaigners are there Because they're like yeah, this is cool. I have people call me apologizing for not having a disability, but can they please be part of my community?
Speaker 1:I'm sitting here going. Can I have the link? Can I be in your community too?
Speaker 2:And we make jokes like we don't hold it against you. If you don't have a disability, it's fine. Of course, the group is exclusively for olinker users. They share accessories, events where they're going to people that I met when they could barely walk doing marathons. Now, on the link, it's not you have to do a marathon, but people do one or five or 10 kilometer runs, the Disney runs. Carlo Gagagnis participated in the Invictus Games. There's two olinkers now at the Invictus Games in Germany. It changes you must be pretty.
Speaker 1:You know how do you. Are you proud of what you've achieved, what you've put out into the world?
Speaker 2:The thing is that I can do my woodwork again, which makes me very happy. I don't have to stress like the first years. The setting is up has been extremely challenging and very hard, and we're now in a with a small team. We're still a small company, but it's nice to have an open space for ourselves, the company that has sort of passed the hardest part, and then of course, pandemic happened and that posed whole new challenges on us.
Speaker 2:But the fact that I can do woodwork and not have to stress 24 seven about all sorts of stuff, and the company we don't have money here. We have a company now that employees and link users, that pays living wages to all of us, that has done more than carbon neutral Make sure that everybody in the supply chain is treated well all the way back to raw materials. That feels very nice. That feels really good. To think it was 11 years of ridiculously, really impossible work. Actually it's quite impossible what we managed to do. But now that we're here and there's still a lot of challenges, but and there's a whole community- yeah, which is so cool.
Speaker 1:That's the really cool bit, Are you or? I know? Before we started, you talked about maybe a B linker, so a second version. Are you? Do you want to talk about that? Do you want to talk about? Is that improvements or is it something completely different?
Speaker 2:Yes and yes, I made 14 prototypes before I got to the market in 2016. And at a certain time you think like it's not perfect and in a few years I'm going to look back to like, holy fuck, that I bring that to market, but it was good enough to prove the point to be the thing. At a certain time, you have to say like now it's good enough to bring to market, knowing that there'll be a 2.0 somewhere in the process. And again, when I went through that it wasn't as defined as I'm verbalizing now looking back at it. But the thought of like this is good enough now to bring it to market. It's a safe product, it's a good product, it's cool and I always see it because I'm very critical, of course, of my own designs. But I got distracted because my cat was rolling in the sun behind me.
Speaker 1:I know I've been watching your cat because going that cat is having a lovely time in the sun.
Speaker 2:She's having such a blast. But yeah, so the new Elinker and we're trying to raise money to do that whole process, because it's really expensive to do product development processes and we might have a company that's still alive after the pandemic.
Speaker 2:We don't have 2 million in the bank to do a developing thing, so and money raising, funds raising, has become a real big challenge. It was already for women-owned businesses, but after the pandemic it's even worse. But we're hoping to be in a position sometime soon to further develop the Elinker 2.0, which is my dream. To now we're producing in Taiwan, with a fantastic manufacturer, by the way, but independent shipping. It became very apparent in the pandemic that supply chains are very vulnerable. Like we used to pay $2,500 for a container to ship from Taiwan to Seattle. The pandemic that went up to $26,000 for the same container. That's not affordable.
Speaker 1:No, has it come down? Has it come down?
Speaker 2:now it has come down, but it's still like $8,000.
Speaker 2:Not to where it was no no, no, and they did just take advantage of whatever was happening. People don't realize that, the stresses that that causes on a company, that that poses on a company. But my dream came alive again. I always had a dream about producing locally, and not just here locally, but also then in Australia having a local plant, or in South Africa or in Europe. And so the 2.0 is a redesign, a rethink of the same principle of an overarching frame with the three wheels, but completely designed in such way that we can affordably produce in, say, canada, to start with, setting up a mini manufacturing plant.
Speaker 2:Mini manufacturing means you don't have a mass production run with huge factory or many factories or whatever. But say, if you sell 5 lingers per day, you produce 5 lingers per day with a very dedicated crew who knows every part of the linker In a mini manufacturing plant. You can build it such that people with disabilities automatically are not excluded from work. So you can build it that you're completely biolinker. Users, for example, do the full manufacturing. And then you can set up the whole cradle to cradle approach that when repairs or maintenance or circle of life, end of circle of life of the device can be taken care of, that you recycle it, upcycle it, reutilize the parts, et cetera.
Speaker 2:That I hope is going to happen with the olinkr 2.0. And then, accidentally, currently the olinkr holds up to officially 265 pounds. I mean, I know that there's heavier people using it. It's a bit build as a tank but the weakest part was the back wheel and we just haven't had the time yet, through and after the pandemic, to retest the olinkr. But we know it can take up a lot more weight. It's not gonna collapse.
Speaker 2:I can't say that officially. But the new olinkr I want to be able to hold up to 450 pounds tested, because there is nothing non-statementizing for fat people to stay active. Yeah, fat is never the problem. Love it as we focus on. Obesity is not a disease. People gain weight because the food industry you know just stuff in us that has all those side effects. And then we get medication that in very many cases has the side effect of weight gain and then we focus on a weight gain, stigmatized people because they're fat. But fat is never the problem. So I've had requests to make a bariatric linker. I've always refused. It's like, no, I'm not gonna make an linker for you know people, and then for fat people Not gonna happen. So I want the linker 2.0 to just, incidentally, hold up to 450 pounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And be so cool that everybody would want to use it.
Speaker 1:Yes, so where do?
Speaker 2:people, big vision. I know that, but that's I love it.
Speaker 1:You've got to have a big vision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a big vision. Children linkers are. I had two prototypes already from the XS, the extra small linker with a different seat assembly, which is very interesting, and then the pandemic happened and we couldn't roll that out. But that's about to happen. So children eight years on or something, will be on it. There's a pelvic support they can lean into.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:Where can people buy an, a linker, and how can people get involved in your crowdfunding?
Speaker 2:All on the website and you can see how active our community is. We don't have the logistics, of course to, or retailers involved, because they take a big percentage. We don't have that in our margin. Yeah, yeah. And so we asked the why that goes like there's many people that want to try it before they buy it. Who is available that? If there's somebody in your area to try to linker who is willing to meet somebody? We've got a list of 170 people in North America. That's that. Yeah, I'd love to meet other people. That is unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's 170 people, pretty spread over whole North America.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and.
Speaker 2:Stephanie and Jennifer. They're matching people like the request of like I'd like to try and linker. I'm in Massachusetts and I'm da, da, da da. It's like, oh well, somebody's half an hour drive from you, yeah. And then they meet and then for every match that turns into a sale, we donate $100 to the campaign and people who then buy the linker get $100 out as well and sort of affiliate yeah.
Speaker 1:And do you ship outside of North America?
Speaker 2:We are the distributor, so to speak, in Canada and the US. We have distributors in South Africa, the UK, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. Did I say that already? Four of those, no, five of those people, Italy, five of those people are actually a linker users.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Bugged the shit out of me to get an a linker in an area where there was not a distributor. And then we were like, ok, well, either from South Africa. She actually traveled to the UK to get one, but they wanted to have everybody in their area. So they said can we be a distributor? So we've got of this seven or something distributors. Five of them are actually a linker users.
Speaker 1:That's so cool, who we?
Speaker 2:work with that. They can be a distributor and it's not a, it's not a full on business, but they're happy to be engaged and brilliant Get other people on the linkers. Yeah, yeah, that's really nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, b, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your point of view about the world. You've got my head thinking now about different ways to approach things. So thank you so much and I wish you all the best with your getting funding and setting up your local manufacturing. I just yeah, it's brilliant, thank you.
Speaker 2:And if people want to contact me they can send me an email like B at the linkercom and I will put yeah, yeah For the funding.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'll put it all in the show notes and actually when I share on social media, I'll do a shout out that you're looking for funding for investors. Yeah, you've got a great product.
Speaker 2:Great investors the right. I've said no to a lot of money because it's not about money. It's about partners who understand what we're doing and are in with that. So, yeah, we're looking for the right money. Love it, love it. Thank you so much.