Join the ranks of visionary leaders and cultural champions in our latest episode, as we sit down with John Lombard, CEO of NTT Data. With a tapestry of international experiences enriching our discussion, John unveils the nuances of inclusive leadership that he's masterfully woven through a career spanning continents. From the art of communication across cultural chasms to the personal touches that define his life, including an enduring love for the Collingwood football club, this conversation is a masterclass in empathy, strategy, and the power of patience in the corporate world.
Our dialogue takes a meaningful turn as we confront the disparity in STEM representation, focusing on actionable strategies to empower women and girls in technology. John and I explore how tech giants can foster a culture of diversity and inclusion, creating opportunities that resonate with the ambitions of young female innovators. We also discuss the pivotal role of local leadership and cultural intelligence in steering multinational companies to success, all while highlighting the importance of well-being through sports and passion projects that round out the contours of a fulfilled life.
The episode culminates with an inspiring look at ArtDIS Singapore, a beacon of hope and creativity for individuals with disabilities. Reflecting on six transformative years on the board, we celebrate the triumphs and challenges of advocating for inclusion in Southeast Asia. Our conversation is a reminder of the arts' capacity to kindle joy, build communities, and challenge preconceptions. As we anticipate the future of AI and its potential for inclusivity, we reaffirm our commitment to a tech landscape where innovation and empathy coalesce to shape a more equitable world.
The Culture Ministry exists to create inclusive, accessible environments so that people and businesses can thrive.
Combining a big picture, balanced approach with real-world experience, we help organisations understand their diversity and inclusion shortcomings – and identify practical, measurable actions to move them forward.
If you enjoyed this episode and maybe learnt something please share with your friends on social media, give a 5 star rating on Apple podcasts and leave a comment. This makes it easier for others to find A Dog Called Diversity.
Join the ranks of visionary leaders and cultural champions in our latest episode, as we sit down with John Lombard, CEO of NTT Data. With a tapestry of international experiences enriching our discussion, John unveils the nuances of inclusive leadership that he's masterfully woven through a career spanning continents. From the art of communication across cultural chasms to the personal touches that define his life, including an enduring love for the Collingwood football club, this conversation is a masterclass in empathy, strategy, and the power of patience in the corporate world.
Our dialogue takes a meaningful turn as we confront the disparity in STEM representation, focusing on actionable strategies to empower women and girls in technology. John and I explore how tech giants can foster a culture of diversity and inclusion, creating opportunities that resonate with the ambitions of young female innovators. We also discuss the pivotal role of local leadership and cultural intelligence in steering multinational companies to success, all while highlighting the importance of well-being through sports and passion projects that round out the contours of a fulfilled life.
The episode culminates with an inspiring look at ArtDIS Singapore, a beacon of hope and creativity for individuals with disabilities. Reflecting on six transformative years on the board, we celebrate the triumphs and challenges of advocating for inclusion in Southeast Asia. Our conversation is a reminder of the arts' capacity to kindle joy, build communities, and challenge preconceptions. As we anticipate the future of AI and its potential for inclusivity, we reaffirm our commitment to a tech landscape where innovation and empathy coalesce to shape a more equitable world.
The Culture Ministry exists to create inclusive, accessible environments so that people and businesses can thrive.
Combining a big picture, balanced approach with real-world experience, we help organisations understand their diversity and inclusion shortcomings – and identify practical, measurable actions to move them forward.
If you enjoyed this episode and maybe learnt something please share with your friends on social media, give a 5 star rating on Apple podcasts and leave a comment. This makes it easier for others to find A Dog Called Diversity.
Welcome to a dog called diversity, and this week I have John Lombard, who is the CEO of NTT data, and hopefully that I've said your company name correctly.
Speaker 2:
You have Lisa you have Welcome.
Speaker 1:
So John is normally based in Singapore, but he's joining from Melbourne today, so it means we're nearly on the same time zone, which is nice. And I invited John on because I've realized in my work that to make an impact in organisations, we need leaders who are inclusive and who are showing the way with diversity and inclusion work, and John is certainly one of those. But firstly, welcome John. It's great to have you.
Speaker 2:
Thanks so much, Lisa. Great to be on Really looking forward to the chat.
Speaker 1:
Thank you. What do you start? And tell us a little bit about yourself, because you've had a really interesting career, but I'd love to know a bit more about, I guess, your career, but also your family and how you've ended up, where you've ended up.
Speaker 2:
Yes, so let me start with the most important thing first Lisa. So I'm a Collingwood supporter. Oh what. And a lot of our listeners outside of Australia they'll be thinking what does he mean? It's an AFL football club, an Australian rules football club For those in Australia. You may have lost half your audience just with that first time.
Speaker 1:
I know, I know.
Speaker 2:
But no, married. Three kids my youngest is still in high school, the eldest two at university or college. I was born in Melbourne but grew up in a country town called Horsham in Western Victoria. I have been in the IT technology industry for most of my career, except for a three-year stint where I was working as a CEO of a listed company in Australia in business advisory and wealth management of all things. But most of my career has been in technology consulting, it services etc. So companies like early on in my career, pwc as a consultant, and then KPMG, sap, the software company, and you mentioned NTT data or NTT. We're just going through a bit of a name change at the moment. But yeah, so just being in this amazing career and during that time had the opportunity to work in some amazing locations as well.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I wondered if you'd talk a bit about that, because I have lived and worked overseas and I think it's. It can be the making of your career, I think, being able to live and work with different cultures and to navigate the challenges of doing that. So you've lived in a couple of different countries, haven't you?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, so I actually got the first opportunity to work overseas Very early in my career. I was a consultant with PWC back in the 90s and the partner who I was working for in Melbourne asked me to go and work on a project. First off it was a few months in Bangkok. It was a project with Bangkok Bank, and then I was asked to go and work in Indonesia and I actually lived in Indonesia and was overseas from sort of 96 to 98. And actually I was in Indonesia during I think some people may remember the Asian economic crisis that happened. This is back in sort of 97, 98. It was the time that Thailand sort of depigged its currency from the US dollar and basically there was a run on capital and it affected not only Thailand but a number of neighbouring countries as well and Indonesia was one of them. So the Indonesian rupee dramatically was devalued against the US dollar. That created a lot of social upheaval, which then resulted in what was called the reformasi movement.
Speaker 2:
So here I was in Indonesia during at that time it got evacuated from the project and then, lived in Singapore, for I think we've been in Singapore for a combined over 10 years, and then also in Germany when I was with SAP. So, yeah, lived in outside of Australia for many, many years and in three different countries, which has been fantastic.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. How has that impacted your career or impacted you as a leader?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think early on. So for me Indonesia was such a big, a big shift from what I was used to. It was really my first time spending any time overseas and culturally this was sort of 96 to 1998, 1998. So it was a really interesting time and it really forced me to think differently about what I'd grown up to consider to be sort of the status quo, really respecting people from highly diverse backgrounds, ethnicity, religion, all of those things. It was a real wake-up call for me around how I needed to lead and communicate with people.
Speaker 2:
So I learned a lot of things in my time in Indonesia. The skill of patience is one that I learned. I also learned to speak a lot more slowly as an Australian. So I think maybe you've had a similar experience, lisa, but we tend to talk fast and I remember some people who I was working with some Indonesians said John, do you mind just slowing down so we can understand what you're saying? So I learned that. I learned a lot of things just to respect people from different backgrounds and ways of life, and the importance of that in the workplace was really important.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I lived in Singapore for eight years and the speech theme definitely resonates with me and I don't I do remember having to think carefully about how I spoke to people, both in Singapore, but I was also working with people in Indonesia, thailand and Brunei and sometimes Malaysia. And, yeah, being very conscious of how I spoke and I noticed it more, we went back to Singapore over Christmas and I just quickly moved back into that way of speaking with local people so that they would understand.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's great. It just so, it just means, I think, that there's a consideration there and an understanding, not just for people to assume. You know that you're just being conscious of the environment you're in. I think that's what I learned as well. And then obviously I've spent, like you combined I think I'm in my over 10 years anyway in Singapore and you know, running different countries and being involved with people from different backgrounds and across Asia Pacific. It's you really have to. I think you asked the question. You know some people can do well in that environment. You know maybe others not so well, but I think you really do need to be able to work across and moderate your style across multiple different, you know personality types, cultures, all of those things are so important.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, how did you find? You said you worked and lived in Germany for a time, and I think, most of us understand that the German culture is different. One of the things I found is often we get tripped up when we're in cultures where people look like us. So, I found that in New. Zealand. I expected New Zealand to be very much like Australia and the culture is quite different and I have been tripped up by it.
Speaker 2:
Did you have that experience in?
Speaker 1:
Germany, or was there enough?
Speaker 2:
So I was lucky to an extent, so my wife was born in Australia but her parents were Germans, so she speaks, jenny speaks German, so that sort of helped a bit, just, you know, with the local environment, the kids going to school and just the supermarket shopping and stuff.
Speaker 2:
So that was sort of helpful. But in the workplace, absolutely, and the biggest thing that happened that I experienced was a lot of the people who were working for me at the time were German, and even though we spoke English, english was sort of the language of SAP in its head office. There was a lot of German language in the world and what they do is they tend to they're quite comfortable with constructive confrontation. I describe it so what you and I would call an argument where we get quite oh dear, you know, we need to intervene here to, you know, to make sure everybody stays cool. Actually, that's a normal part of what I discovered, sort of the German business culture, and it's not a sign of disrespect. Actually it's respectful if you sort of challenge each other, and so long as it's done in the right way.
Speaker 2:
And I would, early on, I would try to intervene and try to keep everyone happy and do the you know the Australian thing. Can't we all just get along? And one of the guys came to me and said listen, john, you know I need to let you know that you've got to. Just let us go. And when we, when we disagreeing with each other, like that, it's actually a sign of respect that we're giving each other and you don't need to try and fix it all the time. And that was one of the biggest, biggest lessons I have. I had living and working in Germany and actually I sort of thought, wow, that's actually really good and that's maybe something that we could all learn from. And I've tried to, you know, allow that, that concept of constructive debate and disagreement. I think it's quite a healthy thing to do, you know.
Speaker 2:
In general so yeah, that was a great learning in my time in Germany.
Speaker 1:
Oh, I love that. I once was, I worked with a CEO and I was his HR business partner and he, at the start of our working relationship, he almost gave me permission to do that, for us to be to argue constructively, and it was so great because I could call him on stuff that I thought, you know, if his behavior wasn't what I thought was right for the situation, it gave me permission. It was awesome. It was awesome. We had a great relationship because of that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Then, when I first spoke to you About coming on the podcast, you said to me Lisa, I don't know why you want me on the podcast and what we would actually talk about. And then, as I spoke to you, I learned all these incredible things that you have been involved with in your career, and one of them was the he for she program in Singapore, I think. Yeah now, what is he for she? How did you get involved? Why was it important for you to be involved?
Speaker 2:
So that was. The background to that was there was a group in Singapore called lean in Asia and so it was part of one of the lean in groups and they were looking for a location to run an event. And we have a large office facility in Singapore and one of the team came to me and said, look, would you mind if we use your facility? And I said, yeah, sure, no problem.
Speaker 2:
so we put on you know the usual nibblies and drinks and stuff and we got people in from a whole lot of different companies and then from that I was asked to this that was a role playing around unconscious bias, and they wanted to run like a little play almost, and so it was a boardroom and there was a male Chairman and there was a female I think it was either CEO or CFO at the time and it was just the. It was a pre rehearsed interaction, just to show unconscious bias and you know that went to look for it and of course I got to play the male chauvinist Australian board member.
Speaker 2:
I was so proud of you, so so proud, and of course I'm like, oh, really so I did it, I did it and from that was a great look, a great experience and I think everyone you know people you learn a lot actually by participating in those things as much as you do by sort of watching.
Speaker 2:
And then there was a group of Guys in the tech industry in Singapore and we just got together and came up with this he for she and the idea it was getting men and particularly younger men coming up through the profession and in business to just talk about unconscious bias in the workplace you know the use of Mike, this concept which I wasn't even aware of myself at the time micro aggressions and just you know language and posture and All of those sorts of things in the workplace and just the awareness. And so really the role of the he for she group was just to organize these events, presentations and just get you know people together to have these conversations. So it was quite active up until covert through covert. Obviously it died off and the team is starting to kick it off again now. But yeah, it was a fantastic thing to be involved in and to be part of.
Speaker 2:
Really, really enjoyed it and I learned I mean the reality is, I learned more than.
Speaker 2:
Through that process and I gave through that process I. It was a way of educating myself as well. Yeah, what did you learn about yourself? I learned that I had moments where I realized I learned what I learned about myself is what I didn't know and what I wish I had known earlier in my career.
Speaker 2:
So one of the things that really hit me and obviously no names here, but was how often, how women sometimes see themselves or compete when they, when they're looking at a job or a role, you know the fact that they tend to look at all of the requirements of that role and measure themself quite harshly against whether they are up to being able to do those various functions where guys tend to sort of have a little bit more of a laser fair.
Speaker 2:
Well, you know, I can do half of it, so I'm good to go attitude and and I had no idea that until you know, being part of this group and I look back on my career and there are moments probably a couple of moments where you know I've fallen for that, you know she's probably she's not, she's not really putting herself forward for this role, maybe she's not ready yet. You know where is? He is super keen, like if I had known this at the time, I would have been able to read the signs and then have the conversation with the female manager or team leader and and really get behind. You know what was going on. So what I learned was there's been, I think, some missed opportunities earlier in my career to elevate women. So, yeah, so we just want to make sure that doesn't happen going forward, and so that that's the biggest thing that I learned through that process.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, did it? Did it inform, I guess, the work that was happening internally? So Tech companies, and of course I can't talk for NTT. But yeah it's one of the big challenges of tech companies is getting more women.
Speaker 2:
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Wondered how some of that experience might have informed Well, how can we do better?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so I think there's a couple of things there. One is just getting more Young women interested in the STEM type subjects at university, in school. I think some countries do better than others. Like, if I look at Australia, it's not, it's not, still not great, whereas some other countries, I think like India for example, are doing quite well from you know, what I understand Particularly in, like computer science and engineering. But then it goes into the workplace and creating an environment and cultures that just really allow for the differences between men and women and to make sure that those differences do not, you know, get in the way of people's careers. So it's lots of little things. So one of one of them is just educating the workforce on, you know, unconscious bias and the use of language and those sorts of things.
Speaker 2:
But it's also making sure that we have Flexibility in the workplace. We have flexibility in the way people work and operate Just little things. You know, something I was really proud of in our Thai business and was you know they set up a crache in that in our office and Actually nobody asked them to do that. That was just an initiative they took locally on the ground because that's what they felt they needed for their workforce. And there's a lot of other examples of where people are, just you know, learning about Considering what needs to be done locally and making decisions locally. And I think you know, I think that's actually an important part of the culture we have inside our company where, yes, we're a global business and, yes, we have global Policies, like many other companies, but we certainly allow a lot of flexibility at the edge when it comes to Making decisions of a right for the local cultures. I think that's an important thing as well.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, super important, especially in if you, if you understand Asia, if you've lived and worked there. Every country has different things going on and especially around diversity and inclusion there are different issues. So If you take a global or a head office approach, often you can come very undone at the local level Exactly.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, exactly, maybe Lisa, just another one, that, which is not so much around the gender side. But one thing, and I, like you, spend a lot of time, I guess, as an expat working in Asia Pacific and and often multinational companies can make the. I think it's a mistake to have too many expats, you know, in running the countries and and you know, something that I'm Think it's incredibly important is to have, as, where possible, locals running local businesses for the.
Speaker 2:
You know, I gave the example of the you know, the team did in Thailand, but it sort of goes beyond that. It's really understanding what's important for the local teams, you know, understanding the local culture, the local business environment, and I've really tried to do that across the Asia Pacific Region for the business that I run today in most countries, almost without exception, it's locals running local businesses and again, that's an experience where I've seen it the other way, where it's been expats, you know, running local businesses and maybe not doing as well. So sometimes you sort of got to learn through a bad experience to realize what the right approach is.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think Of course there are situations where you may want to put an expat in, especially if you're Establishing a business in that location and it's new for that country.
Speaker 2:
That's right.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, but having the Having a time limit and an expectation about what happens. So you go in for two years or three years. You find you develop your local successor and then you go, you get the expat out Definitely.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's such a good point. Of course, sometimes the other challenge I know, I know when I was leaving One role that I had in Singapore and I turned to the Singapore HR manager and said all right, I think you should apply for this job.
Speaker 1:
My job was across Southeast Asia and yeah it was like I couldn't do what you could do and I'm like what do you mean? Of course you could, yeah, but but what she meant was we had a number of expats, we had an Aussie mafia, and they were very strong men and very, at times, aggressive and would certainly be come across as aggressive in Southeast Asia. Yes and to do that role, you had to be able to stand up to them and yeah, you know it's some hard for some cultures to do that, so you know I do get the challenges sometimes in finding those successes, but it can be done, right, it can be.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, the Aussie mafia. Yeah, I think that was your term.
Speaker 1:
I had written down.
Speaker 2:
I know you've done well remembering that, yeah, so of course no, no company names, no company names.
Speaker 1:
No, not at all. Um, now, you started the podcast by telling us you're a Collingwood supporter, and I know that. Yes sport is very important to you. Yes, yes. Yes, um, but I know that you're involved. You're on the board of something quite different in Singapore and I wonder if you would share that with us.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely so. Um so sport is important more because I think it's an important part of people looking after themselves and mental health, their physical health, etc. So I'm a big advocate for people just staying fit and healthy. But I think there's more to life than just work and sport and one of the things that I've developed an interest in, actually later in life. Lisa, I'm certainly no artist myself, but sort of the artists, particularly visual arts, paintings, performing arts, etc. And there was an opportunity back in 2017, I've been on the board for about six years with a charity in Singapore. At the time it was called Very Special Arts. We've rebranded to ArtDIS, is the name ArtDIS Singapore and what the organisation does is it empowers people with disabilities, as is described in Singapore. I think we call people differently abled in the Australian context, but in Singapore people with disabilities to learn and earn a living through the arts, through both visual arts and performing arts.
Speaker 2:
So, that's through painting, through concert, piano, music, etc. And I got involved, thinking I'll probably be on the board for a couple of years and I think I'm in my sixth year at the moment as one of the board members in Singapore and not just children. So there are children, but there's also adults and it's just awesome. So ArtDIS runs across multiple locations in Singapore and it has an academic staff who teach the arts, both visual and performing, across a range of disciplines for people with a variety of different conditions. There's people with visual disabilities, different physical disabilities as well, so it's not just for the blind or the deaf, it covers a range of different conditions, people with different conditions and, yeah, it's just incredibly rewarding to see some of the output. It's just amazing.
Speaker 2:
So, yeah, really great to be part of.
Speaker 1:
I'm sure you get to give them your leadership skills and what you've learned through working for really big companies. But what other things you get out of it? What do you get out of it personally?
Speaker 2:
So, just for me it's the ability, the opportunity to interact with people from a completely different background to me and also people with different interests. So the people who attend there get the benefit from ArtDIS, so it's just seeing their progression and the joy that they have when they've finished a performance. We run a number of events during the year, as you can imagine. One of those is a big golf day, there's gala dinners, there's all sorts of different events and we always get the team to put on some sort of performance and you just see the joy in the performers, but also their families. So it's interacting often with the carers, mom and dad, and just seeing the pride that they have in their son or daughter, which is just amazing.
Speaker 2:
It's also the opportunity to interact with some of the other board members who come from a range of different disciplines, from the public sector, public service, different industries, and just to interact with just different people outside of my profession. It just opens your mind up to different things and again, it's sort of I guess it's that it's really good to spend time with people who don't do what you do, lisa, I've found over the years. So, whether it's my friend group, the people that I hang out with, or my family or whatever it is. I think it's important not to get buried in one particular part of life and have that diverse ability to interact with people from a range of backgrounds Wow.
Speaker 1:
I loved what he talked about that seeing the people perform and their families and how proud they are. One of the things I learned when I first moved to Singapore in 2014 was that people weren't as open about disability. And there wasn't as much support for people with disabilities as there is, say, in Australia, and so I felt my son's vision impaired. I had to advocate hard and differently. So that he could get support, and I think in a lot of countries in Southeast Asia there's a real shame.
Speaker 2:
It's a stigma.
Speaker 2:
And a stigma and, yeah, I can see how valuable this charity work is and I didn't realize how big it was actually, and in some communities it's stronger than others, as I discovered and there's been.
Speaker 2:
We've had discussions at the board level and talked to people to understand, et cetera, and it's still a big, it's still an issue. But groups like ArtDIS actually are making a big impact because they're reaching out to different parts. So in Singapore, obviously, there's a number of as the Singaporeans call it ethnic groups, so there's the Chinese, the Malay, the Indian, just to name the three big ones. The outreach into those communities is very different and needs to be very targeted because there's different reactions in those communities to people with different abilities and so that that is something that we recognize as a big topic and it's not something that we probably face as much in Australia. People see that in Australia they just assume that everything's the same, but certainly in Southeast Asia and broader Asia-Pacific region there's massive differences when it comes to people's reaction to people with disabilities. So there's a lot we can learn, I think, and there's also a lot of bias and other issues that people face every day.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I learned that when I first moved to Singapore. It was like, do people not have disabilities here? Like where are all the different people in society? And I kind of learned that they're in some ways kept behind closed doors because of the shame. And I met a woman who worked in a massage business which was built for people who were vision impaired and blind as a way for them to earn money, and she was probably a little bit older than me and had the same condition as my son.
Speaker 1:
So when I was having a massage, I was talking about my son and I was asking about her, who had the same condition and when she would have gone to school. Her parents didn't send her to school, so she never went to school, which was so sad. And she's obviously a capable person, just because you can't see as well as anyone else, but that experience taught me something about the culture and how much more challenging it is for people with disabilities. When you first told me about being on this board.
Speaker 1:
I was like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. And it was kind of a bit out of the box with what I'd learned from you before that, that you love sport, that you work in technology. And I'd said to you, why a disability charity, why this charity? Like, do you know someone with a disability? Do you have someone in your family? And I think, yeah, would you like to talk about that a little bit, because this is personally important to you?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. My brother actually has suffered from autism, or still has that, so that's certainly something that you know. It's a hit personally early on, and even though I probably didn't register the importance of that, but when it came to me thinking about when I became CEO of this company back in 2016, ok, I want to do something else. We were the company.
Speaker 2:
We've got a history, ntt, in fact the company I joined was called Dimension Data and then we rebranded to NTT and now NTT Data. But you know, we had a professional cycling team. We sponsored the Tour de France, but the technology sponsor of the Tour de France Way back in the day, dimension Data, actually was one of the sponsors for Manchester United, I learned so it's got this huge sporting background, but so I wanted to do something different, and actually so I you know.
Speaker 2:
I was looking around for something to get involved in, to give back to society. I know it sounds a little bit corny, but that's what I was thinking. And so when the when the artist opportunity came along, I just felt compelled to do it. And if I think about it, it was probably has something to do with the fact that my brother, you know, had this, has this. You know, disability that he's he's been dealing with all of his life, but, you know, he leads a great life. He's also a Collingwood supporter, so that's a positive man.
Speaker 1:
What's what's next for you, John? What are you optimistic about? What are you working towards?
Speaker 2:
I'm just so so from a work point of view. So we're we're launching this new organisation called NTT data. So that's coming up, the official. The official date is one April. So, depending Lisa, when this podcast goes out, it will either have been done or be in process. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So, so that happens this year Super exciting. That's bringing together a number of different organisations in Asia Pacific. We're going to be launching this new company that provides this full stack of technology and IT related services, so that's super cool. I'm going to, I'm continuing on with the role in artists and, you know, really looking forward to contributing to that team. We're also working with a group called Women of the Future. So we've been sponsoring and involved in a group called Women of the Future now, I think, the past three, two or three years as the headline sponsor and that's. That is an amazing group, lisa.
Speaker 2:
So this, this is a an event or an award program that recognises women in from a range of different backgrounds and disciplines in the Southeast Asia region and sort of creates an environment for them to be connected, to create, you know this, the inability for them to network across this group, and it creates, it's creating this environment of kindness where they can actually leverage leverage each other's backgrounds and support each other in their careers. So often, often, men have an opportunity to have these informal networks and you know the concept of let's go and grab a drink or let's catch up. It's sometimes easier for men to do that, and then what Women of the Future is about is creating environments that women can connect easily across a range of different disciplines and backgrounds. So so we're involved in that, and I'm personally involved in that going forward as well. So I'm super excited about that.
Speaker 2:
But just more broadly, I mean the industry that I work in is technology, is the tech industry, and some of the things that are happening at the moment around AI and Gen AI, some of the advancements that we're seeing in this industry really are just mind blowing, and you know, I just can't wait to see what that future unlocks. So, yeah, just looking forward to being part of that journey going forward. Thank you so much, john.
Speaker 1:
It was such a pleasure to speak to you, and it's my mission to speak to more leaders that are doing the kind of work you're doing, not just running a big technology company, but thinking about how can I give back, how can I be inclusive, how can I create diverse environments. So thank you so much. You're very welcome, lisa Great.
