Talking Trees with Davey Tree

Let's Talk About Roots - Trees with Non-Invasive Roots and Root Pruning

February 17, 2022 The Davey Tree Expert Company Season 2 Episode 7
Talking Trees with Davey Tree
Let's Talk About Roots - Trees with Non-Invasive Roots and Root Pruning
Show Notes Transcript

Josh Fritz from Hartney Greymont, a Davey company, in Concord, Massachusetts, shares all you need to know about roots, such as trees you should not plant near the house, trees with non-invasive root systems and root pruning. 

In this episode we cover:

  • Willows (0:46)
  • Norway maple (2:09)
  • River birch (3:39)
  • Elms (4:45)
  • Roots affecting sidewalks (5:24)
  • Arborvitae and stewartia (6:22)
  • Planting close to the house (10:30)
  • 30 under 30 (11:31)
  • Root pruning (13:08)
  • Snow and storm damage (15:17)
  • Other trees you can plant near the house (18:27)
  • Crabapples (19:41)

To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.

To learn more about other trees with non-invasive root systems, read our blog, Fruit, Shade and Curbside Trees with Non-Invasive Root Systems.
To learn more about girdling roots, watch out YouTube videos on on How to Treat and Remove Tree Girdling Roots and Tree Planting: What are Girdling Roots?
To learn about exposed tree roots, read our blog, Are Exposed Tree Roots a Bad Thing? Get to the Root of the Problem.

Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company

Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!

Doug Oster: Welcome to The Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborist share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborist's favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees podcast, we know trees are the answer.

This week, I've got a return guest. Josh Fritz is a district manager for The Davey Tree Expert Company in Concord, Massachusetts. See? I got it right this time, Josh. Last time, I thought it was Concord, Maine when I saw MA. Last time, we talked about pruning but this episode, we're going to talk all about the root of the problem, [laughs] roots in general. I want to start right off the bat with willows. I've always been taught that a willow tree was bad thing to plant by the house or by any place that those roots could get to a pipe or water. Do I have that right?

Josh Fritz: Yes, that's correct. Willows are notorious for invading their root system into water mains or wells and stuff like that, leach fields. They'll do a fair amount of damage to those systems just because they just seek out the water in any area they're at. I mean, if you're going to put a willow, it'd be nice to just put a willow right by a pond. They'd be happy there. They'll take off and just do really, really well there. Another thing just with those roots, like I said, they'll actually break foundations just to find water. They're aggressive.

Doug: Have you ever encountered one that was planted like that, planted in the wrong spot?

Josh: Luckily, I haven't seen that but when I was a kid, we actually had another tree that I probably wouldn't plant near a water main or even near a septic, or stuff like that is Norway maple. They do the same thing. They're seeking out water and they actually find into our sewage pipe and they did a lot of damage there to the fact that we ended up having a lot of unwanted water in our basement. Not the type of water you want in your basement because it just backed up the whole system.

Doug: We don't want any water in our basement but that kind of water we especially don't want in our basement. In the case of that tree, did it have to be removed?

Josh: Well, eventually, yes, it did. It was like a tree that probably rooted itself in the area. It's between my house and a church next door. It was massive. If I remember correctly when I was a kid, it was at least 42 inches in diameter. It engulfed both the church and my house. If you know anything about Norway maples, they have a lot of included barks. Storm damage, the church and the house was a target, so we ended up having to remove it.

Doug: I had a guy sent me a message. He told me the story about he planted a river birch close to his house and those roots, somehow, got down into the house and he had a big problem. Is that another one that we should think about?

Josh: Yes. A lot of people, they like to use birches right up against their house because they have a nice shape and they kind of soften the façade of the house but, again, birches in general, their natural habitat is in swampy areas. They're, again, seeking for water. If there is a little inkling, a little crack in that PVC or whatever water main that you have, they'll find their way in there and they'd back it up pretty big.

Doug: Are those the main invasive rooted trees that you don't put close to the house or is there anything else on your list? What are you thinking about when we talk about invasive roots?

Josh: Those are the main ones that I talk about. There's others out there that could be a target like elms. Again, typically you see an elm on the streets. New England used to be anyway. Their root system is pretty vast and they get pretty big. They can bust up sidewalks and they're a big trip hazard. Same thing with big oaks. They can do that as well. Rule of thumb is you want to put the right tree at the right place. That's the biggest thing.

Doug: What do they do in a city like if you've got a big tree and it's pushing the sidewalk up? Can you trim the root or is that going to kill the tree?

Josh: It depends. Obviously, the bigger the tree that you don't have a lot of room to prune out the invasive roots. Some things they do, they'll air spade the soil and they'll put a different grid just to allow water. It's basically a structured sidewalk so that you still allow water and air to get into the root system. Other ways they do it, they'll actually raise the sidewalk a little bit, just get a little ridge, so they don't have to damage the roots with root pruning or even excavating equipment and whatnot. They'll do that.

Doug: The guy who sent me the message about the river birch, he was asking, could he put an arborvitae in instead close to the house? What are your thoughts about that?

Josh: Yes, that's not too bad. Obviously, you want to have that nice space between the actual house and the tree just because you'll have other issues as far as mold and whatnot and just damage the siding. But, yes, that'd be one. They can do American hollies. Another one that I do. They get a nice little shape, the conical shape, and they give you winter interest as well.

I think I told you the last time I've talked to you, I'm a big fan of stewartias. They are great trees, especially right up against the house. They can handle a nice small area. They can get about 15 feet and still do the purpose of soften the façade of the house but yet, again, give you year-round interest as well. Something like that I would highly recommend.

Doug: We got to revisit stewartias because it is also one of my favorite trees. Tell us all about a stewartia. You said lots of different seasons of interest, so take us through it. I want to hear all about it.

Josh: All right. Right now, in New England, let's see, we had a blizzard come through, so I got a nice blanket of new snow right in front of my house. I have my stewartia right outside. It's the featured tree looking outside. Behind that is a lake. You got the nice white snow and you got the little exfoliated bark that gives you a little orange, gray, a little brown tinge to the bark. Just a perfect silhouette with a nice background of a lake or a field of blanket snow. It's a beautiful tree.

In the summer, especially the month of July, they'll bloom pretty much the most, month of July, with a camelia-shaped flower. A real big flower with an orange or a yellow inside or the middle. Beautiful, beautiful tree. Then, of course, in the fall, you get the right crimson red to almost bright, bright orange fall color. You can't miss. That tree is a showstopper. Every person should have at least one on their property as a staple tree.

Doug: Tell me about it if you ever had this happen because I've had this happen, when it's blooming people are blown away. They're like, "What is that thing? That looks like a peony a little bit, the flower."

Josh: Yes, exactly.

Doug: Some people will say like, "That can't be a peony. It's July and it's 20 feet tall."

Josh: Right.

Doug: It's just a spectacular tree. How about hardiness for that tree?

Josh: Hardiness? Believe it or not, they're about a zone 5. Up in Loudon, New Hampshire, that's a nursery I deal with, they actually do field-grown trees up there. I don't know if you look at the map. Concord, New Hampshire, it's right in the center of New Hampshire. It's pretty far north as far as the hardiness zone. They do well. They're probably nice rock solid tree. I enjoy them and they don't have a lot of insects and disease problems.

Doug: I put one in about three seasons ago and that first year it bloomed when I walked around the corner. I can't even tell you how overjoyed I was to see those flowers. In general, when we're talking about planting close to the house. I know we don't want it to be too close. I know right plant, right place, but do you often hear as I do, people are just, no matter what it is they're afraid to put it within four feet, five feet of the house for that fear of roots finding their way and cracking the foundation and such.

Josh: I have some people think that. It's just education is what type of tree is more prone to getting into the water even just break the foundation of the tree. I've had conversations like, okay, let's try a hornbeam nice Japanese hornbeam. That will work, or a fringe tree. That gives you another flowering tree that's not going to get too big, but still it does what it needs to do.

It's just soften the façades of the house. Same thing that the city is starting to use up in Massachusetts. Eversource is the primary utility up here. They actually created a template of trees. It's like 30 Under 30. What they'll do is they'll actually, these are the trees that aren't going to get above 30 feet, and will get into the power lines above you. Those 30 under 30 trees aren't going to have the big root system that a mature oak or another maple or just a nice street tree.

They partnered with UMass and they actually have an arboretum at UMass so you can observe these 30 Under 30 trees. It's pretty amazing how they're doing it. Actually, Michael Dirr, Dr. Dirr, if you know trees, he's the guy that has the tree bible and he partnered with that 30 Under 30 tree. People can be educated and put the right tree at the right place.

Doug: That's such great news because I've been in communities where the Shade Tree Commission, a tree has come down and they replant it. The day they replant, it's within a foot of the wires. I'm like, "Ugh, why, why?" It's so nice to see things like that, the 30 for 30 and some more education happening. Let's talk a little bit more about roots and talk a little bit about root pruning. Is that something that you do or is it something that you don't want to do? I'm assuming it's like everything else. It depends.

Josh: It all depends. Sometimes we come up to a situation where they have a landscape they've been in for about four or five years, and all of a sudden the tree it's declining. You're like, "Okay, this is a brand new installation, what's going on?" Usually 9 out of 10, it's in the root system. The plant had been planted too deep, or it was in bad nursery stock where you couldn't actually see the root flare in there.

What ended up happening is now you have girdling roots in there. You usually won't see the damage until two, three years down the road. That's when we go in, we actually do a root crown excavation, and we can do some root pruning to try to relieve the girdling roots on a tree. Sometimes what we'll do, and I actually did this past fall, we had a new septic system going in one of my client's house. We actually did some preventive pruning.

When all the excavation equipment came in, the trees were actually protected before the digging. We actually went in, got down to about two, three feet where the fibrous roots, and the feeding roots of the tree are within that zone. We prune them back. That way they're out of the way and it protects the tree. It doesn't stress the tree. They can do their excavation and the tree won't go into ascent of decline. We'll do that. Then afterwards we'll do basically a nutrient plan after the construction to be on the safe side. Those are some of the things we do.

Doug: When we have a snowy winter with a bunch of different snow events. The day before when you're looking at the weather forecast and you see that you're going to get dumped on, what does that mean for you in your job?

Josh: [laughs] All hands are on deck pretty much. I got the emergency phone. It's one of those things I'm praying. It's like, "Okay, please, no calls, please no call." It's funny actually was it three years ago, we had a situation where we had a really light winter, and then all of a sudden in March, every Monday we had two, three feet of snow. Just the big blizzards just come in.

The problem was all these, say for instance, red maples, they're starting to bloom. They're flowering out their new leaves, the ground is saturated, so it's not frozen anymore. As soon as you get like a 40, 50 mile per hour wind, all the trees topped over. It was like a war zone. Anytime I hear Nor'easter up here, I'm just like, "Oh, please, here we go." I just don't want any storm damage. It's the worst type of work I do.

Doug: Do you watch it closely or do you just wait for this emergency call?

Josh: I do. I'm on standby. Yes, I do. Obviously, with my regular clients, we're doing regular preventative pruning to try to minimize any storm damage during these big Nor'easter events. Knock on wood, it's usually people that are not my client are the ones that are calling me, which says a lot about the pruning we do and the preventative work we do for our clients. It's a good service.

I've had time after time, my clients say, you know what, what we did last year saved a lot of headaches for us. I saw the wind out there and you got downtown, there's trees down everywhere, but on my property they're standing tall. It's because of the stuff you did. We really appreciate it. That says a lot to me. Affirmation is what I'm doing counts. It affects people's lives, you know what I mean? They don't have to worry about these big storms that come up the coast.

Doug: Well, it's just a great testimonial for why you should have a certified arborist come out and look and care for your trees. Because just as you said there, you get one of these weather events, especially later in the season like that, that's, no pun intended the perfect storm for trees blowing over. What a great thing to have your trees trimmed the right way so that we don't have that problem. Is there anything else on your list you're thinking about that you would plant around the house where you wouldn't have to worry too much about the roots getting in there?

Josh: Yes. I'm always a big fan of crab apples. Some people are kind of, yes, I don't know. They have a purpose. There's some that are not going to get real big 10, 15 feet tall. Again, they give you year-round interest. I'm a big fan of the Hornbeams, the European Hornbeams, because they, again, like the Stewartia, they have that nice slender shape. Like a rock-solid tree, they don't have a lot of issues.

What else? Sometimes we can use-- what have we done in the past? Those are the two big ones. I'm sorry. Those three, those are the ones that come off the top of my head. I'm sure there's many. It all comes down to what the client likes. It's a conversation that we have before you plant anything to make sure it is a plant that's going to fit your needs yet be practical in your landscape.

Doug: School me a little bit on crab apples because I love crab apples. For me, someone my age no longer a young man, Josh. Crab apple reminds me of school. Those big crab apples in those '50s elementary schools. I have one right out my kitchen window and I love it. Yes. For me, I get some fungal issues, but it's worth it for me for the flowers. Now, are you treating a crab apple for fungal diseases or you just let it do its thing?

Josh: Yes, that's a great question. Obviously, I'm in Concord, Massachusetts. There's a lot of mature old crab apples and apple trees. Believe it or not, not too far down the road from Concord is Leominster, Massachusetts, where Johnny Appleseed was born. Yes, we do treat those trees. The reason why is because there are cedars in the woods, so they will get rust. The good thing about crab apples, there's so many different varieties right now that are resistant. It comes to the client's likes and dislikes.

Some people are like, "You know what, I really don't want to put a lot of fungicides on this tree." Which is okay, there's ways to go around it. Especially with apple scab, it's not necessarily going to kill the tree, but it'll definitely stress them out and they won't look good after the beginning of July because it will drop its leaves. but if they're okay with that, that's fine. You can do some research and there's different varieties that aren't going to have those issues, and you can still enjoy a crab apple and not have the maintenance or the spraying that you might have to do with the old-fashioned, I call crab apples and apples.

Doug: If you would indulge me just a little bit more about crab apples. There are also so many cool flower varieties, doubles, and stuff like that. If you're a guy like me who's a sucker for a double flower, how do you explain the double flower? I say it's like a fluffy flower, but you're an expert. You tell me if there's a better term for it.

Josh: That sounds like a great-- I love that. That's a good-- I'm going to have to use that. A little puff, because they all are really fat, and they come out. Let's see, what's one? Adirondack is one of them. It's like a d-bloom. I call them double bloom. It comes out like a rose almost pinkish at the beginning, but as it opens up, it get a really nice, fluffy white flower. Same thing, prairifire is another one that is like a double boom, as well, that I really like to use.

Donald Wyman is another one that I highly recommend. That's a great crab apple to be put in a landscape because actually all three of those are resistant from rust and scab. You can enjoy those all throughout the growing season without a lot of issues as far as apple scab and cedar apple rust.

Doug: Well, you actually made me feel like I know what I'm talking about when I said fluffy. I like that.

Josh: Yes.

Doug: We started out talking about roots, we got into winter and pruning, and also into crab apples. Josh, that was a lot of fun. I enjoyed talking to you again. Thanks so much for your time.

Josh: Not a problem, Doug. Anytime.

Doug: We sure covered a lot of ground there. Check out some of those crab apples that Josh recommends. They're not only beautiful, they're disease resistant too. Next week a topic that's right up my alley, eco-friendly landscape practices, lots of things that you can do at home to garden the right way. Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company. I am your host Doug Oster and I sure would love it, if you would subscribe to the podcast. We are having fun, aren't we? As always we'd like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast, trees are the answer.

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