Mat Garey from Davey's Detroit Lawncare office gives you a reason to not rake your yard by sharing the benefits of mulching and composting your leaves.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about managing your leaves, read our blog, Managing Fallen Leaves in Your Yard.
To learn more about when to leave the leaves, watch Matt Betz in this WCNC segment explaining when is it better to rake up fallen leaves?
Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company
Connect with Doug Oster at www.dougoster.com.
Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!
Mat Garey from Davey's Detroit Lawncare office gives you a reason to not rake your yard by sharing the benefits of mulching and composting your leaves.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about managing your leaves, read our blog, Managing Fallen Leaves in Your Yard.
To learn more about when to leave the leaves, watch Matt Betz in this WCNC segment explaining when is it better to rake up fallen leaves?
Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company
Connect with Doug Oster at www.dougoster.com.
Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!
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Doug Oster: Welcome to The Davey Tree Expert Company's Podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more, because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer. I'm joined this week by Mat Garey. He's a district manager in Detroit for the Lawncare Davey office, and today, we're talking about one of my favorite subjects, raking leaves, Mat. I'm hoping you're going to tell me I don't have to rake those leaves off my yard.
Mat Garey: Well, I can tell you this. No, you don't have to rake them off. The biggest reason that you would rake them off is more of an aesthetics purpose. Mulching up your leaves is just fine as long as you do it a correct way, which is I guess the hardest part. You need to do your best to make sure you're mulching those leaves up when it's dry for the fact that when you mulch them, it's going to mulch better when they're dry. They mulch better, they mulch smaller into smaller pieces, they settle better down into the soil or on the soil surface than they would if they're wet. They're wet, they mat up, and they sit up on top, and then they can actually strangle your lawn.
At that point, if you've got no choice and it's wet, the best option is to rake them up, but there's a dry day coming, and when that day comes, that's when you when you do it. Otherwise, you can take an alternative. Blow the leaves onto a patio, blow the leaves onto your driveway, mulch them there, and then be able to distribute them into your garden and/or around your plants and shrubs to protect the root crown of that plant. Same thing goes when you're when you're mulching them and putting them in the lawn. As long as there you can mulch them up dry and get them into fine particles, help them settle, and if they are wet and you have no choice, you can always take a blower and disperse them once it gets a chance to dry out, which will help. The nutrients that come from the ground and go into those plants are nutrients that are needed for the plants in the lawn that are there. You absolutely can mulch those leaves up and have no problem as long as they're not smothering those plants.
Doug: Do I need a special mulching mower or any mower do?
Mat: You don't need a special mower. A special blade will help. They make a blade that's got an ability to cut those leaves up once they're flying and dispersing in the air underneath that deck. That'll give you a better mulching effect, but otherwise blocking the shoot, so they don't go out, that in just using your standard blades is something that would be just fine.
Doug: We'd pick a dry day, we get out there, and cut them up. We've been taught all these years that we've got to rake them off, but what are the benefits when we do mulch them up and have them small, and they fall into that lawn? Because growing up in the '60s, they were always talking about thatch and that sort of thing, so tell me what's happening when those leaves are all cut up and down by the root zone?
Mat: Well, everybody hears that horrible story of thatch. Thatch is not necessarily built up from mulching up grass. That mulch in the soil is not going to contribute to that thatch because it's going to break down faster. The thatch actually comes from the root systems and the grass plants themselves that thicken up and get tight on the soil which stops nutrients from going in, stops water from going in.
The nutrients themselves are more of a benefit as long as it's mulched up correctly. Actually, taking them away, like I said earlier, is more of an aesthetics purpose. People don't want to see leaves all over their lawn. Typically, your lawn looks really green and really nice in the fall, even if it's got some weeds throughout it. Picking them up, yes, it's a story of the past, and a lot of people trying to go in organic way. Organic ways incorporating it into what we have been doing is a great idea. You don't necessarily need to just go and use nothing but organic fertilizers and go that route.
If you just start to break through and leave some of the organic materials there and use the products that you were used to and you're accustomed to that are going to give you the control for your weeds, give you the control for your crabgrass. Those are almost necessities if you want a meticulous perfect lawn. If you're just happy that you have grass there, there's somewhere for your dog to go out and have your kids or your grandkids to go out and play in the lawn.
Keeping those nutrients there instead of putting extra nutrients into the ground is great, but you need to be on a good program so that those grass plants have the ability to break down those nutrients and to grow a nice healthy lawn. It's an important thing to make sure that you're not putting too much to smother, but it is good to mulch those leaves up and keep them there, and if that gives people the excuse to not have to rake those things up and stuff them into bags and bring them out to the curb, then that's a great excuse for it.
Doug: I always tell people on the podcast, I live in a declining oak forest. To me, those are the toughest leaves to deal with, and I'm doing what you're telling me to do. I'm cutting them up, but sometimes, I get so many on there. The first, I'll cut them, but then when I get that big drop, especially when it's wet, sometimes I have to blow them off, but I want to use those leaves in the garden and such. Let's talk a little bit about that. You touched on mulching, again, it's the same thing. If you blow them off, wait till they're dry, and then just run the mower over them. How do I mulch them up? Do I put them through maybe a shredder or something? What do you recommend?
Mat: Really it comes down to what you have in the garage. What you have it's your reaching distance to be able to take care of those leaves. A mower will do just fine. If you've got a shredder, and that's what you have, then that's just fine. There's a lot of benefit to the fact that mulching those leaves away from the trees, even though that sounds backwards, when you leave leaves all mulched up underneath your trees, you basically are a harbinger for disease, especially things that will go into your spruce trees, in needle cast.
If you just mulch those leaves and leave them there, those needles that are down, there they're going to contribute to some of that fungus that's there. Now again so blowing them out and mulching them up, where there aren't trees, is going to be better for a couple of different reasons. For one, your grass is probably healthier out in the middle of your lawn instead of underneath the tree, so a little bit more leaf buildup underneath or out in that open area is going to be easier for those leaves to move out, for them to not smother that grass, because the grass underneath your trees is already struggling for light, so now you're burying them in leaves. It's not always the best thing, taking those mulched up leaves, if you have a garden at home, it's getting very popular. Lots of people growing vegetables and gardens. Those leaves are actually more of a benefit into a garden area to build that soil than they are into your lawn. Like I said, when you're mulching your grass during the summer, the grass being broken down, it's going to break down into nutrients available to that plant faster and better than what a mulched up leaf will be because again you're mulching up leaves when the plants are starting to go dormant for the winter, so they're struggling for a couple of different reasons. They're not growing anymore. It's easier to smother them, and it's wetter usually typically in the fall and in the spring.
The oak leaves you mentioned, the oak leaves don't fall until after usually the snow is on the ground, so now you got oak leaves laying on top of your snow and they linger around all year, so trying to get out in the middle of winter, most people laugh. I'm not going out to rake leaves, it's December, but it's actually a good time. Oak leaves are tough. They're thicker leaves, they're usually something that takes a lot more effort to get broken down, so at that point if you do have a shredder, might be easier to send them through a shredder and then mulch them. Taking those mulched up piles if you use a shredder and stacking them around your rose bushes to protect those plants to make it through the winter, great thing.
Any plants that need a little bit of protection from the wind might be a little more sensitive to the colder environments in the north. They're going to protect those plants, but at the same time, you do something like that. You have to make sure that you're adamant in the spring as soon as the weather starts to break to get those piles of leaves away from your plants because now you start to introduce another problem like I said earlier with disease and now you've got insects that are coming out of the ground. It's warm enough. They're going to lay their eggs there. They're going to have a higher population so they might affect your plants in the spring because you gave them a place to bed down for the winter.
Again, it's very simple process, but it's also a very complicated process. You have to do everything in moderation when it comes to plants and keeping them alive and doing what's right for them, so you have to take the time to make sure that maybe in the spring, if it's still a little cold, you go out and you check, and you see when you rake some of those leaves away, yellowing grass or if the grass is completely melted down from being smothered, you might have to get a little earlier. Otherwise, it's still cold and you can go out there with a mower even though you're not mowing grass. It might pick some of those leaves up and mulch them a little better. Staying on top of it, staying after it, there's a definite benefit. Aside from the whole fact of filling them up, taking all those leaves to a landfill, letting them break down there.
Now, granted, there is a benefit to those leaves, they're going to help break down some of the other stuff that are in those waste facilities. More than anything, if it's a good nutrient, leave it in your lawn. If you're paying attention to your lawn, you're probably paying somebody to fertilize and spray and take care of that lawn. Why would you go backwards and take those nutrients away?
At the same time, if you don't have the availability of tools to get out there and get those things cleaned up the right way, you have to find somebody that can do it for you. It's a matter of what your expectations are, what your aesthetic expectations are, and what your organic or cultural practices are.
Doug: Yes, in my situation, I just want to mulch them. I don't have a lot of lawn area, but I've got the worst driveway you could possibly imagine, steep hill, switchback, those leaves got to go off there. Then off the patio, too, since 1939, somebody has been blowing or raking those leaves off, because again I'm in the woods. I'll tell you what, Mat, when I need something for my garden, and I go down to the bottom of that big pile, it's the most beautiful black, sweet smelling stuff you can possibly imagine. It makes things grow.
Mat: Oh yes. Yes, it definitely does. Again, situations like yourself, a steep hill, you can't have those leaves sitting there. Now you're talking a whole nother problem of getting down there safely, down that driveway. Microbes in the soil that break down those nutrients from all those leaves and mulched up grass, when they're busy doing that, they're not doing what they need to do to supply those nutrients to the actual plants.
You want to get them as fine as you can to break them down so that they're actually doing what you want them to do. A buildup over years and years like you said, at a certain point, you have too much organic matter in your soil. Breaking it down and making it into mulch, a compost pile, is clearly your probably best benefit to be able to use. There's always a patch in the lawn that needs to be touched up, because somebody might have taken a tire off the side of the driveway and rutted something up. You need some good soil.
Again, if there's too much organic matter in that soil, it's going to have a hard time growing grass because all the activity in that soil is to break down nutrients instead of grow plants. Again, it's simple, but it is not. You just got to pay attention and do what you think is the best.
Doug: You said a couple of really interesting things there. I know you're from Detroit because you have a real winter. You said about going down the hill, and you're right. It's not so much coming up. It's going down that's scary. Then I want to tell you that what I do with my compost pile is every time I put something in there from the kitchen, I always have mulched leaves to throw in there and make those layers. That's a great way for me to get rid of the leaves. Like you said, composting them is a great way to do it.
Talk a little bit about why this job is right for you and how you got into doing it?
Mat: Well, this job is right for me for a lot of reasons. I started off, I was 13 years old and, pushing a lawnmower to make some money there. Get a chance and opportunity to buy a car when I turned 16, be able to drive around. The first few times I mowed lawns, I was probably pushing with my forehead on the handlebar. My first job at 13 years old, I was on a golf course. Back then, if you got a permission slip from your counselor at school, you could work in the summer. Golf courses were considered agriculture, and I wanted to make money. I had a paper route already. I was mowing lawns. I got a job on the golf course. My first day, they gave me a 12-inch piece of rope, a one-gallon gas can and a weed eater.
Then I asked what the rope was for. I understood the weed eater and the gas can, but the rope was to tie the gas can to my belt because I wasn't allowed to drive a golf cart yet until you're 16 years old. I spent the first three years mainly walking around golf courses, either trimming, raking bunkers, but everything I could do by hand.
My dad was a golfer, and I got a job at a really nice golf course in town. My dad got the ability to play golf there. I thought that was cool when I was young. Thirteen years old, your impression is from your father. I just get out there, the beauty of it. I've always loved the golf course. Golf courses would be a beautiful place without golfers, regardless of the game. It's just the rolling hills, the green color, everything about it has always been very appealing to me. I was told before I even realized I could get a degree in turf management, that you're going to have to find something else to do when you get older, Mat. You're going to have to go out and get a real job and go to school and get a degree.
I decided when I graduated from high school that my parents were right. You can't work year round up north and expect to make a living when you're young especially. Once you get into management, it's a different story. You're there year round. I moved to Florida. I can work year round, take care of golf course, take care of grass year round that right there at 18 years old, I wanted to be on a golf course or taking care of the lawn somehow. It's just always been in me.
My grandfather was a farmer and, I got a lot of family that were farmers in Ohio. I guess it comes in line with what I did when I was a kid. My grandparents were watching me, we're out in the garden, working on stuff. My grandfather was always picking up a lawnmower at the garage sale and bring home, and teach me how to fix the lawnmower. Then when we get done, he'd be like, go ahead and mow. Little did I know that I was out doing his chores for him. I've always been in touch and paid a lot of attention to the lawn. I think it's a beautiful scene. I love taking care of it. Because of it, I've just always taken myself into every corner and aspect of what you could do to make it better.
My dad would complain about a little spot in the backyard because our whole backyard was covered in oak trees, just like you're saying. It was a tedious job to try and keep all those leaves out of there. I love it. I love taking care of it. The grass doesn't talk back. That makes it easy too. I like taking care of it. To me, a lot of people will say, well, beautiful landscape and trees and the lawn make people look at your yard and your property and think how pretty it is.
To me, and nobody's looking at your trees and landscape unless your lawn looks good. I'm a little different, but I've always just been into it. It's always been something that gave me peace. Lots of people like to go to the beach to relax. I can go out and sit and stare at my backyard for hours, like somebody would the ocean, and then end up wandering around and finding something that's not perfect, and figuring out how to do it. Grabbing a pitchfork, making little holes in the ground to get some oxygen down in there.
Most people don't even think about the fact that plants need oxygen. It's the most important nutrient. It's not nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium. It's oxygen. Getting out there and paying attention, doing a little bit of work here and there to make things better has always been my thing.
Doug: Well, the grass doesn't talk back. I'm going to leave it right there, Mat, because that is awesome. I so much appreciate your time and information. That was great stuff. Let's not send those leaves to a landfill. Let's use them on our lawns and use them on our garden, right?
Mat: Absolutely. Absolutely. Just take your time with it and do it when it's dry.
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Doug: All right, Mat. Thanks again.
Mat: Thank you, sir.
Doug: Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davy Tree Expert Company. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Do me a favor, subscribe to the podcast, so you'll never miss an episode. If you've got an idea for a show or maybe a comment, send us an email at podcasts@davey.com. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S@D-A-V-E-Y.com. As always, we'd like to remind you on the Talking Trees Podcast, trees are the answer.
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