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Talking Trees with Davey Tree
Perennials 101: Why Now is the Perfect Time to Plant
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Did you know fall is the perfect time to plant perennials? Jordan Williams, sales representative from Davey's Commercial Landscape Services (CLS) division, joins us to talk all about perennials, including varieties to plant, evaluating hardiness zones and how to keep your perennials thriving year after year.
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about perennials, please read our blogs Perennial Pruning Tips: When to Cut Back Perennials & How Far, Perennial Bloom Calendar: Month By Month and When Should You Stop Watering Trees, Perennials and Garden in Fall?
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Connect with us: podcasts@davey.com.
Welcome to the Deby Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oester. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer. We have a very special episode of the Talking Trees Podcast today. Jordan Williams is joining us. He's a sales representative down in Cincinnati for the Davy Tree Expert Company. And today we're talking about why this is the best time to plant perennials in the garden. Hi, Jordan. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Doing great. First, let's talk about the landscape and
What is a perennial?
SPEAKER_00what a perennial plant is.
SPEAKER_01So a perennial is something that's going to come back year after year. Um, an annual, usually you typically only have it for you know the season or one year. A perennial is going to continue to come back year after year.
SPEAKER_00And in
How to add perennials to your landscape
SPEAKER_00your work with Davy, how do you implement perennials into the landscape? Is this kind of like an arborist would? Are you going out there and they're telling you, oh, I love this plant, that plant, or I have sun, I have shade. How does it work for you?
SPEAKER_01Um, so any chance I get to incorporate a perennial, I'm going to. Uh, there's lots of different varieties. Um, it just kind of depends on what the job site is, whether it's a sunny site or a shady site, there's different options. Um, if maybe they're wanting some spring color, there's flowers that we could suggest that would be good in the spring, if they're wanting summer color, or if they're wanting a little bit of everything, you can kind of go through and do a mixture of different perennials. Um, there's lots of different options. And I personally, for my own property, um I like a mix. I I was a residential arborist for a couple years, so I got to go out to residential properties and kind of see what everybody else was doing, um, which was really cool. It was, you know, like I was in a magazine every day, basically, like better homes and gardens. Um, and then from there, I, you know, I kind of do shopping of my own and uh I'd like to try different stuff out and just kind of see what works.
SPEAKER_00Fun. So let's talk about hardiness zones
What are hardiness zones?
SPEAKER_00and just knowing when you're planning a perennial, if it's going to come back for you.
SPEAKER_01So uh, like in uh in Cincinnati is where I'm at, we're a zone seven. For the most part, if you're going to uh your local nursery, they're going to be providing plants that do good in your area. Um, it's always good to kind of take a look around and see or you know get online and check out what zone you're in. But for the most part, if you're shopping locally, they're gonna provide you with plants that do well in your area.
SPEAKER_00Well, I didn't know Cincinnati was zone seven. You're so lucky. Yeah. Uh when we when we're talking about zones, uh, I'm north of Jordan and I'm zone six, so I can't plant anything that grows in zone seven unless I want to stretch the season and take my chances and do all sorts of crazy stuff. So when you're going
Which perennial do I plant?
SPEAKER_00to a property, discuss a little bit about the relationship with you and the client and how you decide what to plant.
SPEAKER_01Um, so it's really just kind of talking with the client and seeing what they like. I don't go so much on residential properties anymore. I'm more so going to commercial properties. And commercial properties tend to be a little bit more cookie-cutter. Uh, they tend to like the hardier plants that do well on commercial properties, whereas a residential client might, you know, be willing to try more things, especially since they're not buying in masses. Um, whereas commercial properties you have to buy, usually they're bigger size. So you're you're buying a lot more and you want to put in something that's gonna do well. Uh, commercial properties also tend to have irrigation systems, which is nice. Um, but there are, you know, you can some commercial properties do want to take a chance and want to get creative with plants. Other ones kind of, you know, want to stick to catmans and taxis and the basics, uh, which is totally fine. Um they're they're hardy for a reason and and they do well, you know. A lot of the properties have, you know, there might be salt issues, or we might have to salt the sidewalks or a lot of traffic. Um, so there are reasons to pick hardier plants on commercial properties.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for the most part, I'm assuming they're gonna want the toughest things they can get.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and so let's say we have a commercial property, full sun. Tell us some of your toughest varieties
Tough perennial varieties
SPEAKER_00that you put in. You mentioned one, one. Tell us about catmint.
SPEAKER_01So catmint's great. Um, it blooms uh right away in the spring, and then it has a really nice mounded shape, and it it will hold its shape pretty much all summer. And then if you go through and do a nice cutback mid-summer, end of summer, you should likely get a second um bloom in the fall, which is really nice. You don't get that too much. Um, some of the other tough ones, I mean, when you get to sh uh if we're going into the shrubs, taxis are really hardy, they don't have many um plant health care issues either. Um, hydranges are usually pretty tough. Cone flowers, there's lots of different colors and varieties you can get of those. Uh, black-eyed Susans are really popular and they give you that nice pop of color all summer. Shasta daisies um give you that white. If we're going towards the residential end, um some of the like tougher ones that I like to see are uh flocks in the summer. They have a really bright pink or a um a dark purple you can get. Uh roses are are pretty tough. Um it just it kind of just depends on the area. It's always at the end of the day about putting the right plant in the right place. And if it if the plant's a good plant and it's in the right spot, it's gonna do well.
SPEAKER_00In the commercial
Caring for perennials
SPEAKER_00properties, do they usually have someone that is like caring for them, or is it is it part of the building maintenance, or is it just different in every every application?
SPEAKER_01So for a lot of the commercial properties, so I'm on the commercial service line. We do have account managers that go out and they walk the property and they take a look at the plants and um make suggestions or let the clients know if there's something, some type of issue. Um, so yeah, we have people on our staff who are you know constantly going around to the properties seeing how everything is.
SPEAKER_00Who has to cut back the cut the cat mint?
SPEAKER_01Um, typically our crew members do.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. All right. Because I I think a lot of people wouldn't even think of doing that, but that's a great thing when you can cut it back and you get the right weather, uh, maybe a little fertilizer comes back for another set of blooms. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Same with daylilies. You can usually cut those back um towards the end of summer and get another couple blooms off of them. Are deer
Are deer bad for perennials?
SPEAKER_01an issue down in Cincinnati and for these commercial properties or not really? They are. I wouldn't say so much on commercial properties. Uh, when I was a residential arborist, yes, I I would go to um residential homes and people would have all kinds of ideas. They would have um bars of spring soap hanging from branches and eggshells all over, and we're just trying to get created. I've heard uh spring hot sauce, different varieties of hot sauce kind of keeps them away. Um, but yeah, deer are a big issue here.
SPEAKER_00When we talk about shady areas, do you
Shady areas
SPEAKER_00have? I mean, are most commercial areas like out in the sun, or are there some shade places that you got to figure out what to plant there?
SPEAKER_01There's definitely lots of shady areas. Um, Cincinnati has lots of big trees. Um, and a lot of the buildings also then provide shade to certain areas on their property. Um, some of my favorite ways of handling shade are um, I would say, hostas. There's so many different varieties of pastas, different sizes you can get. Um, there's ones that you know are kind of have a blue hue to them, or there's white. There's just so many different styles of leaves and textures you can get. Uh, lungs wort's also another kind of fun one. It has the polka dotted leaves, and it has uh pink and purple flower to it, bleeding hearts, coral bells come in lots of different colors. There's lots of options.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that sounds like fun. And speaking of fun, is it fun for you when you go to a commercial property and you
Planting unique perennials
SPEAKER_00get somebody that wants to stretch a little bit uh and not plant just the standard stuff? I love it.
SPEAKER_01That's my I I love shopping, I love um different plants, and plants are super uh on a residential level, plants are super resilient. I think a lot of people um kind of just don't know what to do, and then they just let it maybe die. Or, you know, if I see something at my own property not doing well in the fall, I will pop it out and maybe put it somewhere else and see if I can get it to, you know, what's the worst that's gonna happen? At at this point, it looks like it's already dying. Let's move it and see how it does in the fall and see how it looks in the spring. And usually that does the trick. Plants are super resilient.
SPEAKER_00In the commercial
Do commercial properties plant annuals or perennials?
SPEAKER_00properties, have they moved away in general from annuals to perennials, or does it depend on the the property?
SPEAKER_01It just depends on the property. We do for annuals, usually by signs and stuff, we do lots of you know, uh a spring, a summer, and um some type of fall flower mumps, um, or we do lots of containers near doorways and things like that.
SPEAKER_00So
Why is fall the best time to plant perennials?
SPEAKER_00why is fall the best time to plant perennials?
SPEAKER_01So fall is the best time to plant perennials, in my opinion. Um it's because the air is starting to get cooler, the soil is still warm, um, it gives the time for the plant to establish roots. Um, it's not putting so much energy into putting out flowers. Uh and then things go dormant, and then comes spring, you're kind of you already have an established plant. Not only that, but I um it's raining usually in the fall. So when you plant in the spring, you might have a little bit of rain, but then you're having to go out if you don't have an irrigation system. You have to go out every every day basically and kind of water throughout the summer. Whereas when you plant in the fall, it's already raining, it goes dormant. In the spring, you'll get more rain, and then in the summer you can kind of help water as needed.
SPEAKER_00Well, let's say I go to the nursery, I
What's the best way to plant perennials?
SPEAKER_00get uh five little quart containers of perennials. Tell me the best way to plant them. What do I need to do?
SPEAKER_01Um, so you want to find a good spot. Usually there's gonna be a tag in the the container you buy from the nursery, kind of letting you know the the size it's gonna be. You want to pay attention to those things. I don't um I like spacing between my perennials, my plants. Not everybody does. It's uh that's your own preference.
SPEAKER_00I prefer a jungle.
SPEAKER_01Some people do, and some people do it right, and it looks great. Personally, I like spacing. I like kind of clumping, mounding things because I like to be able to enjoy each different plant. Um, but basically, you're gonna read the tag, it's gonna tell you like what kind amount of sun it likes, if it's a you know, a shady plant, whatnot. And then you're gonna go home, you're gonna get a shovel, you're gonna um you can dig a hole, and then you can pop the container into the hole to make sure it kind of fits. You do want it just slightly above the soil. Um, pop pop the plant in, put the soil back over it, give it a good watering, and then you want to kind of water basically every day. I usually say for the first, it depends on the season, but you want to water at least for a good month daily, and then kind of you know, peter off from there.
How do I help perennials if I have lacking soil?
SPEAKER_00If I have less than average garden soil, is there some way I can help the plant out when I'm when I'm planting it?
SPEAKER_01So you can amend the soil, you can um you can pick up soil at the nursery or wherever you're buying it and kind of mix it in. There's other um it it you can do a soil test to see what your soil is lacking. And Davey typically, I know our residential arborists can come out and do that. Um, and then they can give you back a soil test letting you know it needs to be added.
What perennial varieties are recommended?
SPEAKER_00Okay, we've heard all the toughest plants out there. Now, let's hear all the ones that should be planted that people don't think about. And when you do get a client that just like, hey, go to town, we want something cool, we want something different, we don't want to have the same thing everybody else is growing. Uh, tell me about experimenting a little bit with that and and some of the plants that you you like, maybe even for your landscape.
SPEAKER_01So I would say spring wise. Um here it's a native, it's called uh Baptisia. Um it is beautiful. It's three to four feet tall, I think probably about three to four feet wide. Um, there's a variety called lemonade, and it has purple and yellow stalks that come off of it. That's one of my absolute favorites. It's um it's tough, it's beautiful. You don't see it a lot, it's a native. Uh, you just need to make sure you have the proper space for it. Um, I mentioned flocks earlier, those are beautiful. Those also get three to four feet in height. There is the the creeping um variety of flocks that you probably see, which is kind of a purple flower. That's really hardy too, but I I personally like the tall flocks. Um, and I it has just such a bright color to it, and they don't have many like pest issues. Um hydrangeas, but everybody knows hydrangeas, everybody loves hydrangeas, but those are are tough, those are beautiful, there's different varieties.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, in in zone seven, in zone seven they
More on hardiness zones
SPEAKER_00are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00In zone six, uh hydrangea macrophylla especially struggles because we get those really warm, warm winters, and then all of a sudden it cools off and the buds freeze out. Uh I wish I was in zone seven so that I could grow every different type of hydrangea. Um, I love those hydrangeas that are blooming like right now up here, the paniculata with the kind of white conical flowers that fade to pink. And uh they're reliable bloomer, they're reliable bloomers up here, but everything's a reliable bloomer down in zone seven. You're so lucky, Jordan.
SPEAKER_01I've been in a couple different different zones. I'm from Toledo, I'm in Cincinnati, but I worked for Davy down in Jacksonville, Florida for about four and a half years. So you know about palm trees too.
SPEAKER_00And what do you do you remember what zone Jacksonville is? Is it eight or nine?
SPEAKER_01I believe it was a nine. We were right there on the border, but I think it was, and I honestly I think Cincinnati's it's either six B or seven. We're right there too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's close. Yeah, we're the we're the same up here. They say six A and B, but I consider it I don't want to plant anything that's uh higher than five B for me. I I I just think it's a risk.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Take the risk.
SPEAKER_00I do, I do. We do we do what we call zone pushing, so yeah, I am always uh it I think it's a natural thing for gardeners to risk it to try and grow things that aren't from their normal area. For up here, it would be crepe myrtles, and of course, uh I have to have my fig tree. Well, my wife has to have the fig tree. I'm growing it for her, but what a pain. But the thing has to be buried every year, and but the thing's got 200 figs on it right now, so yeah, it's for a good cause.
SPEAKER_01I just um
Peggy Martin rose and other climbing roses
SPEAKER_01last maybe two years ago, I ordered a a climbing rose from Texas, and it has been doing awesome. It's um I have it along my fence, and it's a double bloom, it's semi-thornless. So I'm everybody I get a chance to talk to, I'm like, oh, have you heard of this rose?
SPEAKER_00And uh what is it?
SPEAKER_01It's called the Peggy Martin.
SPEAKER_00Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. And uh honestly, there's kind of a cool story. It was uh discovered right after Katrina. It um it survived basically. The lady who had lived at the home uh was like an avid gardener, and it survived Katrina. So then they kind of sent she sent samples to other landscapers or people in the industry she knew, and that's kind of where it like took off. So it's like a sign of resilience, um, which I think is pretty cool. Um, but it's it's beautiful, it's been doing awesome. You gotta take the chances.
SPEAKER_00Say it again.
SPEAKER_01You gotta take the chances when it comes to plants.
SPEAKER_00Well, I also love plants with stories like that. Uh that makes them even more special in the garden.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and isn't it fun to tell the story?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I love it. I ended up actually buying one for my my mother-in-law and my mother uh this year just to keep spreading the love of them because it's really a beautiful plant.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm a sucker for double flowers on anything. And a double flowering rose, it's just wonderful. And I'm growing one up here, a climbing rose. It's not quite hardy enough. And about every seven years I have to replant it, but it's purely thornless, very fragrant, pink single flowers, actually, uh, but a fast grower. But you get one of those winters up here and it doesn't come back. Uh, and and I think part of this, Jordan, that I like to tell people is in the case of that plant, sometimes plants die, and and there's nothing we can do about it, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
Transplanting in the fall
SPEAKER_01And that's my thing with um with transplanting in the fall, or if you see something that's kind of struggling, you know, the it's already in a spot where it might die. What do you have to lose other than popping it out and trying to find a better spot for it? Uh, it's worth taking the chance. And it, you know, you already have the rain kind of helping you with watering, it's not too much on your plate to do something like that.
SPEAKER_00You
Hostas
SPEAKER_00know, you mentioned hostas, which again is another one of my favorite plants. Mine all have to be be grown inside a fenced-in vegetable garden because I'm in a Disney movie with uh deer, rabbits, groundhogs, you name it, and the deer love that hosta. But if you could talk a little bit more about the variety, and we've touched on it, but I don't think people understand a hosta is so much more than just a white and green plant. As you said, there's all sorts of different ones, and I think that's the fun part of what we do.
SPEAKER_01Um, hostas are great. Um, I think I worked at an arboretum in Toledo for a while, and we had this really cool one called um fireworks. It was uh there was a white strip going down the middle and it had curly leaves, and that kind of I think started me on my my hosta um journey. I honestly have a spot in my my own yard where I kind of throughout the year will just find hostas I like at nurseries, and I've just been planting them back there. You can get ones with um, I believe it's called the blue whale, or there's one called guacamole that have these big leaves on them. Just beautiful. Uh, and in a shady area, it's interesting or it catches your eye to see bright colors. Um, there's also smaller ones. I think there's one called like mini mouse, and um there's mouse ears, mouse ears, and there's a curly one that's uh a bright lime green. There's so many. I think at our our one nursery locally, there's probably 30 different varieties. Right. And they're so tough. And the great thing about a hosta is that after a year or two of being established, you can take them and split them and give them to a neighbor, put them, you know, in another place in your yard. They're like the gift that keep on giving.
SPEAKER_00Well,
Sharing perennials
SPEAKER_00Jordan, that's where I was headed next. Let's talk about sharing when it comes to perennials.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's so much fun to be able to grow something, know that it's good, and then cut off a little piece and give it to a friend or family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that. Um, it literally they they are the the gift that keep on giving. Um hostas are great for splitting.
SPEAKER_00Um well, you could definitely cut up that flocks.
SPEAKER_01You can cut up flocks. Um I've had I've had um uh my hydrangeas have been, you know, giving off babies or whatnot. So there's lots of different things that you can go through and split in the fall um and then give to a a neighbor or you know, find a friend who has a nice garden and see if you guys can swap. Um, that's always an option as far as plants. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Anything else
Amber jubilee ninebark shrub
SPEAKER_00in your garden that uh you're obsessed with or that you love uh or have added recently?
SPEAKER_01Um it uh so I'm gonna go into the shrub world real quick. The um amber jubilee nine bark. It I'm waiting for the fall color, but uh it gets pretty big. I want to say it gets like four to five foot, but it has the um yellow, orange, and green leaves to it. So I'm really excited to see how that looks this fall. I'm a fall person, so I'm very excited for those colors and to be able to enjoy that. And then seed them too in the fall is also great.
SPEAKER_00Well, we've just scratched the surface, Jordan, but I'm so excited to add perennials to the list of plants we've talked about here on the Talking Trees podcast. And uh I appreciate all the suggestions and information, and I know that you and I will talk again uh because we could talk all day about perennials, couldn't we?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, Jordan. Thanks a lot.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Well, that was fun, lots of great ideas for the garden. I'm gonna check out that rose. Now, tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davy Tree Expert Company. I'm your host, Doug Oester. I want you to subscribe to this podcast and I want to know what we should be covering. Send us an email to podcasts at Davey.com. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S at D A V E Y.com. You can also click the link at the end of our show notes to text us a fan mail message. Your ideas could be on a future show. We'd love to hear from you, and as always, we'd like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast. Trees are the answer.