EP44: Dreams, VR & The Multiverse

**Fundraiser to help Sara fight cancer

"The only thing that is real is love. Love is the ultimate reality"

Sara Phinn is an artist, writer & performer who uses her dreams as inspiration for her work. She sees herself as a channel simply gathering the raw data from what she sees, and bringing it to life. Her art is a beautiful collaboration with the universe, and the universe simply uses her as the paintbrush. Sara creates mostly VR and digital art, and you can check it out on her website.   

Sara is an experienced lucid dreamer and psychonaut.  A psychonaut is someone who explores altered states of consciousness. In this episode she tells us incredible stories about her past lives and vivid dream memories she holds in her heart forever.

Also, research has found that people who use virtual reality and play video games are more likely to become better lucid dreamers. On her youtube channel, DreamSeed_VR,   Sara shares some recent studies that confirm the connection between lucid dreaming and virtual reality. She also explores introductory techniques to induce lucidity from normal dream states.

Youtube Video On Lucid Dreaming & Virtual Reality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG4b2NFHTkg&t=1s

Instagram
Sara Phinn (@dreamseed_vr) • Instagram photos and videos

Resources & books mentioned in this episode
Ultraculture Podcast

Dreaming Wide Awake: Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing, and Psychedelics by David Jay Brown 

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;19;27
Unknown
This is like one of the deepest dreams I've ever had. It's almost embarrassing to talk about knowing that other people will hear this, but it's like, important. Another very hard core, skeptical person. I hear people talk about things that are so wild and crazy. I'm just like, How can the universe hold such like, bizarre shit? That makes no sense?

00;00;20;04 - 00;00;48;19
Unknown
And then that bizarre shit happens to you. It's like when it happens to you, it's like it's different. It's so hard to deny because the synchronicities are just so complex that it's not something that you could just fucking make up or that you would even want to make up. It's so traumatic or like deep. I strongly believe that there are different kinds of dreams and some are personal and some are transpersonal and some are like cosmic in scale.

00;00;48;19 - 00;01;28;11
Unknown
And that we really do go places and we really do tap into spiritual realms and memories that are meant to help ripen our experience as we move through life. Oh my gosh. I feel like it's always hard to start somewhere, but I'm just going to be a dork and I'm going to start from the beginning. I feel like it just started as a really small child with very wild dreams, and dreams have always been one of the foundation keys of my life and my consciousness and like how I experience the story of like, whatever this incarnation is, you know?

00;01;28;16 - 00;01;54;19
Unknown
And I grew up in California. I was born in the mid-eighties, and I was very blessed with like lots of great media, you know, fantasy oriented and stuff. During that era, we had classics like The Neverending Story and things like that, but I noticed pretty early on that like I was having really wild dreams that kind of went above and beyond any kind of potential or outside influence.

00;01;54;21 - 00;02;29;21
Unknown
You know, I was having experiences that were beyond the scope of what a kid my age had maybe seen or heard anywhere. And so I knew it wasn't necessarily like things I saw on TV or stories that I heard in books or things like that. And they were very impactful on like a spiritual level. I paid as close attention to my dream life as I did my waking life from the get go and I feel like that had a really big influence on my personality as a visionary or mystical kind of person.

00;02;29;24 - 00;02;49;02
Unknown
That's always been my primary orientation, and it was what drove me to be an artist. I wanted to like, interpret my experience through art as like the lens of like, how do I digest these really big experiences When I wake up in the morning, I'm just this little girl, like, I've just gone on this crazy journey, an adventure.

00;02;49;02 - 00;03;15;06
Unknown
Like, how do I come back to this world? I was a kid with my head in the clouds, as they'd say. I became a psycho not later on in my late teens. And so that was kind of a way for me to bridge the visionary states in this waking life with my dream experiences. And I started writing about my dreams really early, like the very first little book I wrote as a kid was about a dream that I had.

00;03;15;07 - 00;03;34;18
Unknown
I called it my dream gumball. It was like I had a dream about, like a magical dreaming gumball that popped out of the machine and became in the promoter files. And he was my buddy. So, like, I've always been motivated to be a storyteller and, like, relate my experiences to other people. And I often had friends and family be like, Wow, those dreams are so vivid.

00;03;34;18 - 00;03;57;28
Unknown
Like how you remember them so well, or they sound like a movie. You're like, you just went somewhere else. The idea is to be sort of outside the scope of like everyday life. Like, I don't typically have dreams about people in my waking life or even it's hard to think of a specific word that might apply. But oftentimes I would have dreams where I was a different person, and I always found that really interesting.

00;03;57;28 - 00;04;17;24
Unknown
So I've always been interested in like hearing about other people's experiences with dreams and how they shaped them. And similarly with visionary states, like I'm a connoisseur of hearing people's trip reports. So I feel like there's this really amazing fabric of like a collective shared consciousness that we tap into both when we dream and and when we wake.

00;04;17;26 - 00;04;49;11
Unknown
Yeah. So going from like a traditional artist in the first, like more formative few decades of my life, like in the past, I'd say close to eight years or so, I've been working with digital art and in particular VR, because it's a way to create an immersive experience where you can bring somebody into an environment or a place and sort of share what would have been like a subjective experience with people in a way where they can like embody it in a in a more like 1 to 1 direct way.

00;04;49;14 - 00;05;09;23
Unknown
So I'm just like a crazy, wild, psychedelic, dreaming, visionary artist. I call myself the artist and philosopher. That's probably the best way to wrap it up. Were your parents like, How did they react to your dreams as a kid? Were they like supportive and involved, or were they the kind of parents that were just like, Oh, just a dream or whatever?

00;05;09;25 - 00;05;24;03
Unknown
For the most part, my parents were kind of hands off, like in a weird way, like don't have the best relationship with my mom. She was not very curious or involved or engaged in any of that, like, stuff. She was the one that would dub me. Like you have your head in the clouds, like come back to earth.

00;05;24;08 - 00;05;49;09
Unknown
But it was pretty hands off. But he was like always, like, supportive and loving, you know, he never would discount any of my curiosity about it. He was always very supportive of me as an artist and me as a thinker. And he, you know, he was like very stoic, though, very quiet. So I know that he had a couple very impactful, mystical experiences in his life where he didn't talk very much about things.

00;05;49;09 - 00;06;22;05
Unknown
I think they spooked him out. But I think that if there is any kind of like familial component to that aptitude, it probably comes from him and his side of the family. Those are some of the women on his side of the family that also have kind of like that. I don't know that little that little mystical flare that pops in and out, but he was always very supportive of me as an artist, and I think he appreciated that My art came from a cognitive curiosity about consciousness, you know, like how how do dreams work?

00;06;22;05 - 00;06;44;04
Unknown
How does consciousness work? Like, you know, kind of like thinking about thinking in a way. And so he was always really supportive of that. Cool. Tell me a little bit about your art. Like, how do you use your dreams for inspiration and how do you turn that into something tangible? Is this like an intentional process or are you just kind of like, say, cool things in your dreams and try to replicate them or honor them in some way?

00;06;44;06 - 00;07;01;19
Unknown
It's so funny because I question myself a lot. Like, what is my style? And I don't feel like I mean, a lot of my friends and family when they see my work. I mean, they're probably the most intimate with it, right? They see me and my process and they see the finished result. They can tell when a piece is mine just because they've seen the evolution of my work.

00;07;01;19 - 00;07;25;23
Unknown
But each of my pieces of art feel so unique to me because a lot of the things I'm most driven to create and finish a piece are driven by a direct experience I've had. And I think that in a way I like to think of it more as a form of cartography, right? There's an awesome visionary artist. His name is Luke Brown, and he once said that he thinks of himself as like a hyperdimensional cartographer.

00;07;26;00 - 00;07;47;02
Unknown
And so in a way it's like I'm an artist. But I also think that for me, the art form in and of itself is being the experiencer, and it's like taking in as much data as you can from a place where you're not projecting onto it, like you're not trying to interpret it. You're trying to just like be open as a channel and let it be as raw and complete in all of its data.

00;07;47;04 - 00;08;08;26
Unknown
So I try to just be an open channel and I think about it having like I like to think it's like a collaboration with the universe, or the universe is using me as its paintbrush rather than me, like trying to control what comes out. Just like whatever has the strongest signal and is most compelling or there's the most data or it's like a deep experience.

00;08;08;26 - 00;08;30;01
Unknown
And I'm like, Wow, that was really impactful. That's that's what I need to communicate. So it can be dream motifs or it can be sort of like I have a lot of storylines and things that I've been working with over the years that are directly inspired by dreams. I do think of myself as a writer, although it's not a big part of the work that I've put out into the world.

00;08;30;01 - 00;08;50;24
Unknown
Yeah, but it's definitely a part of a lot of the stuff that I'm developing as a VR and digital artist. I think it's been easiest to flow with VR as a medium in the past eight years because of that, because I can bring someone into my experience. So yeah, could be anything from like I'm trying to think of specific pieces.

00;08;50;27 - 00;09;12;16
Unknown
So some pieces might be inspired by hitting to go get experiences. I've had. I had some kind of like weird, hyperdimensional angelic contact one time a number of years ago in 2019, that scared the piss out of me. But it was also super beautiful and I was like, Holy shit. And I immediately the next morning jumped into VR and painted it.

00;09;12;21 - 00;09;39;15
Unknown
And even though it's not necessarily one of the most, like spectacular executions of art, it's very subtle, it's very abstract, but it's so like faithfully executed as a 1 to 1 representation to what I experienced that I think it's a really successful piece. And so in that way, I think the pieces like that, I'm like, that's a moment where I'm kind of like a researcher and that is an artifact or like a catalog moment of an experience.

00;09;39;23 - 00;09;58;02
Unknown
And so I think of art as both, like an artful experience where you look at it for to appreciate beauty, but it's also, you know, kind of like a field guide when you go out into a jungle or some ecosystem that you're unfamiliar with and you're charting and you want to make good documentation of the territory, that's really cool.

00;09;58;02 - 00;10;15;03
Unknown
Your exploration made me smile because it's really fascinating how you said that. Kind of like the universe just uses you as the vessel. And I've heard that with a lot of like really talented musicians even and artists, and they're like, Yeah, I didn't really make this. It just kind of came through me from somewhere else, you know, representing what's out there.

00;10;15;03 - 00;10;37;24
Unknown
And I think that's a really interesting concept that just blows my mind. Yeah, that's definitely my favorite dynamic and relationship with the artistic experience. That's the stuff that is most fulfilling on a spiritual level for a reason. I wanted to talk a little bit about the VR that you do because you know, virtual reality is so interesting to me as well because I don't know much about it, so you'll have to tell me.

00;10;37;24 - 00;10;56;03
Unknown
But it kind of feels like a lucid dream, like I'm in like this other world that is not my world, but I'm consciously experiencing it and creating things. I mean, it's a new technology. It's not like it's been around for very long. So it makes sense that not many people have exposure with it and there's still a little bit of accessibility, isn't quite there yet.

00;10;56;03 - 00;11;17;26
Unknown
You know, it's not like an everyday thing the way cell phones are, but I became interested in it back in initially I would say 2014, but I really got involved in about 2018. Initially, I was really intrigued because I don't like the idea of making digital art with a screen and a mouse. Just there's like a dimensional disconnect.

00;11;17;26 - 00;11;42;07
Unknown
I don't like not feeling in touch with the art directly, and that just seems like an abstract dissociation. And I was really excited about the potential of VR just from like an immersive perspective, not even so much. Gaming is more like theater because I studied a lot of performance art with my my degree from the University of California Santa Cruz.

00;11;42;07 - 00;12;08;14
Unknown
That was sort of my thesis was projection performance art. So I was obsessed with translating the DMT experience for people and just like being a damned ambassador, I just had this like really goofy idea that I can be an emissary for them and just, like, communicate this mystical experience with projected abstract videos and like dressing up in fractal, you know, kind of hyper dimensional mythical beings and dancing around being a goober.

00;12;08;20 - 00;12;46;14
Unknown
I wanted to make animations natively in a digital medium that would just be easier. And I realized in 2018 there's an awesome program called Tilt Brush that was purchased by Google from these two developers, Hackett and Skillman. I tried to demo and I think like 2014 or 2015, and I knew that was the moment I was like, okay, like I can be a traditional artist and then work directly in VR in a way with the controllers where, like I'm drawing in a 3D space or in sculpting in a 3D space and I have all these beautiful brushes that create different colors and shapes and like animated effects.

00;12;46;16 - 00;13;15;27
Unknown
So that was really the moment when I was like, okay, the medium has developed to a point where I can interface with it in a way that's going to enable me to make visuals to project. But then I can create like an immersive space in this world, not the virtual world. I could just project it right on a screen or something and then bring other people into that, like pseudo little world building moment, kind of like analog air, which is augmented reality for people who don't know that acronym yet.

00;13;16;01 - 00;13;45;18
Unknown
VR is virtual reality is augmented reality. So kind of like Pokemon Go or there's a Niantic game called Egress, I think it's called. So you hold up your phone and there's like an overlay over the real world with like digital environments, which is kind of cool. So that was how I got into it. But I found really interesting in 2018 when I really dug in deep that there was a connection between not only lucid dreaming and virtual reality and psychedelics.

00;13;45;18 - 00;14;06;24
Unknown
And so that intersection between those three things has been like my ground zero ever since. For those who don't know, Timothy Leary and Terence McKenna both had very like avid curiosities about the future, in particular with virtual reality. It came after their time, but in their later years, right before they both passed, they were very much interested in that.

00;14;06;24 - 00;14;30;13
Unknown
And Tim Leary in particular said the word cyber, and that was his jam in a bunch of different college lectures a year or two before he passed. So it's 2018 and I've just built my big machine that can let me play in VR easily. So I know I scrubbed toilets for a year at like Airbnbs on the Big Island in Hawaii.

00;14;30;18 - 00;14;49;15
Unknown
I lived there in like a roach motel to be able to afford a computer that could chug hard enough to do virtual reality on the regular. I was like, you know, kind of a scrappy artist type and getting a hold of a machine that powerful was no easy task. And so, like, I went without any luxuries for a long time.

00;14;49;15 - 00;15;08;17
Unknown
And granted, I lived in Hawaii. We had beautiful sunsets. Those are priceless. But no shaved ice for me, no boba tea for me for like a year into scrubbing toilets, working hard, chop wood, carry water so I could build this machine. So I have my machine and I'm spending a lot of time in Tilt brush and they notice something happening with my dream life.

00;15;08;23 - 00;15;27;29
Unknown
I always struggled with lucidity. When I was a child, I would feel like I would become aware of the dream environment, but it would also I would be aware of the edges of it environment in the sense that you're like in a video game and there's only so much of the game that's built out and you get to the edge of the level and you're like, Oh, you know, And my dream would evaporate.

00;15;28;01 - 00;15;52;03
Unknown
And that was a lot of my lucidity limitations as a kid when I started working in VR. Until you can choose the environment which you paint in and I would often choose just a black backdrop because I have this neurological quirk. It's called Fantasia. So I don't have a visual representation of my imagination in my mind's eye. Like when I close my eyes, it's just black.

00;15;52;05 - 00;16;08;23
Unknown
Like if I try to imagine an apple, I mean, I have the idea of an apple and I know what an apple looks like. And I can like turn an imaginary apple in my mind's eye, but there's no signal. So it's like having a computer that knows where all the files are. But there's no monitor to show you the apple.

00;16;08;25 - 00;16;40;09
Unknown
And it's kind of weird because a lot of people don't realize that they have a Fantasia just because they think everybody's mind works that way. But I didn't figure it out till, I don't know. I was about 30 or so. I'm 37 now. So to make my artistic environment similar to my native like mind frame, when I go to make art, I just choose a black backdrop until brush this, I'll start painting, creating space and pulling these ideas from this fantasia like blank slate into a virtual reality.

00;16;40;12 - 00;17;04;01
Unknown
And I remember having a dream in 2018 that was like the most intensely acid dream I ever had. And it was the thing that just opened up a floodgate to like a whole new chapter and revelation and both like mystical experiences, psychedelic experiences, and my dream experiences. I had a dream that was a composite of five different dreams that were reoccurring that I had had throughout my life.

00;17;04;05 - 00;17;24;09
Unknown
And it was almost like five different movies that all smooshed together into one like place. One of them was a birthday party when I was very small, maybe like eight years old. One of them was Burning Man. One of them was like an immersive cabaret theater show, kind of like the ones that I used to do in San Francisco in the underground art scene.

00;17;24;11 - 00;17;43;16
Unknown
And I think one was like, I don't know, just my regular house childhood home. And there was like some other one that I don't really recall, but there was like a big party happening that sort of encompassed all these different places. And I'm there and there's for my characters, like there's my brother and there's some friends of mine, some Burning Man, people I know in the middle of the space.

00;17;43;16 - 00;18;08;02
Unknown
There's this abstract board game on the ground and there's a a man probably in his mid twenties, late twenties, and he looks like maybe he's French or French, Israeli or something. He has like curly hair, longer hair. He looks kind of Mediterranean, but he's very handsome. And I kind of like don't want to pay attention to him because he's intimidating.

00;18;08;05 - 00;18;29;14
Unknown
You know, he's doing something that's extremely compelling. And I was fascinated with what he was doing. He had this long metal pole with like a contraption at the end of it that looked like a metal detector. And he was sort of waving it across this board game surface in the middle of this metal environment. And he and the board game was morphing underneath the device.

00;18;29;14 - 00;18;50;03
Unknown
So he was like creating this reality and bending things to his will in this like little I don't know, I guess you could call it like a mini simulation. It's a board game that represents a reality of some kind watching what he's doing. And I'm like, Wow, I want to know what it is he's doing. So I'm watching him and I walk up to him and I kind of like strike up a conversation.

00;18;50;03 - 00;19;15;17
Unknown
Like, Would you mind explaining to me what's happening here? He looks up at me and he starts telling me a story and he tells me the story of a dream I had two weeks earlier, a dream that I had been smuggling some very important hyperdimensional information during some kind of like galactic or cosmic war across a wall. Across like a wall that was so high, it went between worlds.

00;19;15;20 - 00;19;35;19
Unknown
I'm going to apologize in advance if I get, like, choked up. This is very deep for me. And at the top of the wall, I was like floating up with this, like, important information to pass along. And I came across an angel, and her name was Samantha. She's beautiful and she's like nine feet tall. She had, like, golden hair and she was very grateful and very sweet and sincere.

00;19;35;19 - 00;19;56;26
Unknown
And she thanked me for my efforts. And she she took the message and she went beyond in a realm where I couldn't go. And I was like, cool. I did whatever duty they wanted of me. And it was very touching. It's very moving. And when this man told me my dream, I relived it and it was so private and personal with like, how could you possibly know that?

00;19;57;01 - 00;20;20;03
Unknown
And I looked at him and this is like, this is like one of the deepest dreams I've ever had. It's it's almost embarrassing to talk about knowing that other people will hear this, but it's like important, at least to me. And I realized that this avatar, I'll call it that, was an avatar of like the Godhead. And it was like it was like Big spirit, finding a way to talk to me in a way that, like, I could be present with.

00;20;20;06 - 00;20;44;08
Unknown
And I don't like using the God word just because it's so loaded from so many different cultural interpretations. But that was like Big Spirit talking to me and it basically said like, I want to show you how to shape reality. And I was blown away. And I just like was like, okay, I'm here. I'm listening. Like, whatever you want me to hear or need me to hear, like I'm listening.

00;20;44;11 - 00;21;10;05
Unknown
And then he or whatever created this little this little environment that was like tilt brush. It was just this dark, calm little place. And a glowing orb appeared and it was like golden metal that was liquid and morphing in space. And like this avatar gently guided me to manipulate the shape of the orb, you know, and squish it this way and squish it that way and stretch it, move it.

00;21;10;05 - 00;21;33;29
Unknown
And as I was having that experience, like, I just started crying uncontrollably, like, it was so beautiful, it moving and it was just like my cup overflowed. I was like, Holy shit, this is beautiful. And I just started sobbing and I woke up with happy tears and my life was just different from then on out. My lucidity in general just took off in a way that like I did not have much understanding of how to account for it.

00;21;33;29 - 00;22;04;25
Unknown
And then at some point shortly after that, I came across research that had been showing the people who have been regularly using virtual reality had a significant increase in their ability to have lucid dreams. I also found some Reddit reports of this. My little YouTube channel Dream Seed VR, I think was like around September or so. Last year I did an episode on Lucid Dreaming in VR where I psych those studies so people want to go check out the video and check out that research and see, you know, like the specifics of it.

00;22;04;25 - 00;22;39;01
Unknown
I definitely encourage that. I'm not talking out my ass. It's very real. And so I was interested in like how I could help other people become lucid more often, but then also potentially use VR as a tool to make that leap a little bit more effortless. Because there's this phenomenon where you're in VR, you're aware that you're in a simulation, and so you do that sort of brain check thing that you do sometimes in a dream where like the circumstances are very surreal or just don't quite line up with reality and you look around, you're like, Wait a minute, it's just a dream, you know, and you do that reality check.

00;22;39;03 - 00;22;55;14
Unknown
On some level, your brain is kind of doing that all the time in VR because you know that it's a simulation, so it kind of trains your brain and the subconscious way to do that reality check more often without thinking about it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Wow. Wow. Thank you for sharing that dream, by the way.

00;22;55;20 - 00;23;17;22
Unknown
Let me just start with that. That was really incredible, really inspiring. And yeah, you know, it definitely gave me goosebumps. The VR thing is cool because I've read I'll link your YouTube and everything, of course, but I have read a lot of studies too, in terms of video games, even just regular video games. It really is that kind of like the same thought process of making like conscious decisions in another little world.

00;23;17;24 - 00;23;34;19
Unknown
So VR is kind of like the full simulation version of that. I could totally see how it would like increase lucidity just in general. And another thing you said too, that I relate to was how you kind of had a dream where you could feel the edges of it, kind of like where the dream kind of stops rendering or whatever.

00;23;34;21 - 00;23;54;18
Unknown
That happens to me a lot. And it's really fascinating because it's like sometimes I can like border, like the waking world and the dream world and I can like, feel the edge and I can like halfway see my room, halfway see the dream. And it just like, blends into this gradient. It's really hard to explain, but it's always fascinated me how we can kind of surf that border and like, see the edges of the dream.

00;23;54;20 - 00;24;17;23
Unknown
That's super cool. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like there is a similar consciousness almost constructing reality, you know? And then when you get to the edge of that in the waking life, how there are similarities, like in a way that the waking life is a different kind of dream and that they're just different consciousnesses. And that was why I became really interested in that Tibetan dream.

00;24;17;23 - 00;24;58;22
Unknown
Yoga is because a lot of people will think, Oh, is it a kind of lucidity training or is it just, you know, lucidity plus right, I'm a relatively new student of it and I've had an interest in Buddhism for a long time. And by no means am I an expert or deeply, deeply versed in it. But in the past few years, as I've started incorporating my learning in that modality into my own personal practice more, I noticed that a lot of the natural techniques that I developed over the years were very similar to things that are described in Tibetan dream yoga and the thing that I find most interesting about it is this idea that

00;24;58;28 - 00;25;21;19
Unknown
it's a way of like training yourself to be conscious and aware and lucid in realities of all kinds. So it's not just a kind of lucidity that you have when you're asleep, but it's a lucidity that you bring to your waking life, to you sort of like treat your waking life as an opportunity to be lucid and to sort of like shape your reality in that same way that you might shape a lucid dreaming.

00;25;21;21 - 00;25;39;10
Unknown
So you said something to earlier about how you have dreams of different perspectives and being different people, different living, different lives and things like that. And, you know, I was talking to one of my friends, too, who said she had this dream of an entire lifetime when she was like for like an entire lifetime. She died in the dream and woke up the next day in her life.

00;25;39;12 - 00;26;04;15
Unknown
So what do you think about, like, different dimensions, alternate realities, like when it comes to, you know, dreams, psychedelics, all of that, all the connecting factors of like how we can enter these other worlds. Like, obviously science cannot explain that, but like, what's your thoughts on that? There's a cool metaphor that came across the other week. I don't even know if it relates in the context of its original mentioning.

00;26;04;15 - 00;26;27;13
Unknown
So I think it was live brief, like a cool, nerdy sciencey poker player chick from the UK. She was talking to a podcast guest and they started talking about something called The Mind Cathedral. And I don't know specifically in the context of their talk like who originated that idea or what of it. Unfortunately, there was no context in the clip, but they did mention something about how it's kind of like a memory palace.

00;26;27;13 - 00;26;47;22
Unknown
It's kind of like this thing that you build in your mind and the beauty of having to come to grips with. You're never going to see the cathedral completely built in a lifetime. And I feel like that's very much the greater painting of my personal experience in all these different dimensions and how how they weave together. Like I'm never going to see the end of the cathedral built in this lifetime.

00;26;47;29 - 00;27;17;05
Unknown
And depending on people's, you know, spiritual backgrounds or whatever they may or not believe in reincarnation or multiple lives or things like that. I've had a lot of personal experiences in dreams and other states that lead me to think that souls do ripen over a number of incarnations, and I've had memories of being other people in dreams that that sometimes are in different timelines, that are just completely wild and crazy.

00;27;17;05 - 00;27;41;10
Unknown
And I can't match them to anything historically in this timeline. And I've had others that do match up with historical events in this timeline that were very profound and changed me as a person when I woke up, also had lots of psychedelic experiences that we've in and out of those other experiences. So I don't really see them as like separate categories of experience.

00;27;41;17 - 00;28;09;20
Unknown
I'm being so like raw and open that it's like kind of scary. But I think it's important and I don't have any shame, but I know that I don't want to offend anybody. So I talk about these things as a lot of reverence. I had an experience where like for years I was doing my performance art in fire spinning and spinning and like, creating these, these like theatrical, immersive virtual experiences trying to, like, communicate sacredness to people and humbly as I could.

00;28;09;20 - 00;28;42;25
Unknown
So the very shy kid and I was in my early twenties doing this stuff and going to school, and I found myself dressing up in a lot of horizontal black and white stripes. And after my first few DMT experiences, I found myself very interested in clowns. And I didn't understand, like where this weird fascination with black and white clowns came from or horizontal stripes and then at one point I had a dream that really rocked my world in one of the most, like, heartbreaking and graphic ways I've ever experienced.

00;28;42;25 - 00;29;05;22
Unknown
And like, trigger warning is bad shit about to be related. I dreamt of being about 17 and being a young man, kind of an androgynous young man, you know, spiritually, like very neutral, not super masculine, not super feminine either. Just very androgynous. And I'm a pretty I'm a fairly androgynous person in my life. I just don't ascribe to any of that crap.

00;29;05;22 - 00;29;27;04
Unknown
I don't really care. I just want to be me. So I felt continuity in that way. But I was a young man, was 17, and I lived in a community out there. I'm just going to talk about it in like raw data points and then I'll like collapse it with the other kinds of context that give it a more accurate picture of what's going on.

00;29;27;06 - 00;29;46;03
Unknown
I lived in a community with my family and it was kind of outdoors, right? I knew that both of my parents had passed away and I lived with my grandmother and my uncle and my uncle did a lot of leather work and he hunted for our community. And my grandmother, she would take me for a walk every morning and she would teach me about different plants and stuff.

00;29;46;05 - 00;30;10;03
Unknown
And she had done that with me since I was a little kid. I first lost my parents and we lived what seemed like outside. And as a modern Westerner, that's very different. And the experience I had growing up, obviously, I remember like at one point these strange looking, pale people came on horseback to visit us and we had this really awkward exchange, and I think I offended them and I was kind of embarrassed.

00;30;10;03 - 00;30;23;14
Unknown
I tried to crack a joke to like, you know, ease the tension, but I made it worse somehow. So I was a little worried about it, but I kind of blew it off. Then, like a day or so later, these people came back and there were a lot more of them. And this is where it gets really bad.

00;30;23;14 - 00;30;57;04
Unknown
I'm so sorry. They killed my community and somebody recognized me and they knew I was the kid that had offended them and so they killed me and they killed my grandmother. Then they killed everybody in my community and they saved me for last. It felt like with every person that died, we all of our stories died, all of that information about our families and like all of all the myths died and it was like cups of like sacred fucking liquid being shattered and spilled everywhere.

00;30;57;07 - 00;31;22;00
Unknown
And they saved me for last. It was like punishment for mocking them and they cut my throat. I remember bleeding out and I remember the coldness of the air on my throat from all the blood. And I can see this like a slow, sticky, dark red puddle growing by my face and could feel the blood on my cheek and I died.

00;31;22;02 - 00;32;01;04
Unknown
And I woke up and it so desperately wanted to scream and nothing came out of my throat. Is this horse empty scream? No sound. And I saw been sobbed for and I did not recognize where I was. I was at my friend's house. I didn't know I was in like this weird abstract building came into view and I was like, Oh my God, I'm in a fucking old Victorian and I'm in Santa Cruz and it's 2011 and I'm Sarah and I'm 20 whatever, years old and I'm not that kid.

00;32;01;07 - 00;32;31;23
Unknown
And I was I remember all these other details coming in about his life. He was training to be a contrary, he was a koshyari, he was a tribal clown in training in the Lakota community. And I realized why I had been obsessed with wearing black and white stripes and clowns for the past three or four years. I realized that, like I was trying to connect with these memories of being someone else.

00;32;31;23 - 00;32;56;20
Unknown
And another time and years later, gosh, maybe like three years later, I found myself extremely sad one day and I was kind of crying and I could not stop thinking about that grandma. I couldn't stop thinking about family and how can you look that I felt and I wanted to understand. And I thought about it and I was like, well, you know, those were planes.

00;32;56;20 - 00;33;17;05
Unknown
Those were like, I thought about the hills and the planes and the rocks and the trees. And I was like, were those like, was that a what tribe could that have been? Because I didn't know. And I was like, because there's a couple of different tribes that have, hey, okay, koshyari countries, which are tribal clans. And I remember looking up, I was like, Wait a minute, like Wounded Knee.

00;33;17;05 - 00;33;38;07
Unknown
It was a massacre that happened to one of those tribes. And so I looked it up, and that was that day was the anniversary of Wounded Knee. And I was like, What are the odds of that? What are the odds of it being that it's like one in 365 days? And what I want to look at up that day and why would I feel those feelings that day?

00;33;38;13 - 00;34;00;24
Unknown
And I felt this presence come into my consciousness and it was the grandmother from that life and they like was crying and I was like, I miss you. Like, why did I die? Why did you die? Like, how can I keep doing the work that I was meant to do for my community in that life that got cut short?

00;34;00;26 - 00;34;30;07
Unknown
How do you how do we finish that karma? And it just felt so like, cut off from what I was supposed to do for the people I love. And she said, You're doing it. You're doing it in this life. You died because you're needed here more and you're strong enough to go through the pain and you bring that same mission with you in any time that you're born is so surreal.

00;34;30;07 - 00;34;57;04
Unknown
And just like another really hard core, skeptical person, I hear people talk about things that are so wild and crazy. I'm just like, How can the universe hold such like, bizarre shit that makes no sense? And then that bizarre shit happens to you. It's like when it happens to you, it's like it's different. It's so hard to deny because the synchronicities are just so complex that it's not something that you could just fucking make up or that you would even want to make up.

00;34;57;04 - 00;35;23;09
Unknown
It's so traumatic or like deep, you know, it's like barely capable of holding the depth of how wild those experiences have been. And so, like, that's just one life. And then I had another life as like a young woman, like 19 or so in the 14th century. And you're probably like, I don't know, she's blond. I don't know what region of Europe she is from.

00;35;23;09 - 00;35;44;27
Unknown
I don't think it was France. It was like central Europe. And she had a little boy who was about three and he died of cancer. And it was like a weird ass cancer that people should not be getting in Europe where there's no plastics and carcinogens and stuff on that level. And I was devastated. I felt like my genes gave it to them.

00;35;44;27 - 00;36;02;11
Unknown
I felt like I had doomed him to that fate, that he was so calm and he knew he was going to die and he was sick. But he was so just like at peace. And he comforted me like I'm the grown up and he's looking up at me and he goes, It's okay, Mommy. I'm going to go home.

00;36;02;14 - 00;36;28;00
Unknown
And he was like, I'm just going to go home, but I'll see you later. It's going to be okay and you're going to be okay. And he died and I was devastated. And then the house I was in pulled apart at seams, at the edges of the corners of the house, tiny little shack house. And these beings came in through the cracks and they were like tall and thin and white and made of light like, I don't know, they didn't have hair or anything.

00;36;28;01 - 00;36;44;23
Unknown
They were just they were bipedal and they had big heads. They're made of white like they long, thin limbs. And I was like, What the is going on? Who are you? What the fuck is happening? Where is my child? This is weird. And they were like, It's okay. None of that was real. And I go like, What the fuck are you talking about?

00;36;44;23 - 00;37;16;26
Unknown
This is my life. That was my baby. You can't tell me this isn't real. That was fucking real and pro-democracy. I'm a crass person, and they say the only thing that was real was your love. Like love is the ultimate reality. Everything else is just window dressing. To learn through these through these different lifetimes. And those are the two most prominent experiences that changed me as a person that I distinctly feel like in terms of like past lives or other reincarnations or whatever.

00;37;16;26 - 00;37;52;09
Unknown
Like they were totally transcendent dreams. I strongly believe that there are different kinds of dreams and some are personal and some are transpersonal and some are like cosmic in scale, and that we really do go places and we really do tap into spiritual realms and memories that are meant to help, right? Our experience as we move through life and I feel the same way about different trips too, you know, like I've been a psycho, not for 20 years as of this year.

00;37;52;14 - 00;38;25;14
Unknown
And I've had experiences that are far beyond my ability to imagine, you know, like, there's no way that shit came from my imagination. That comes from like an outer realm of richness that is beyond just my capacity to fabricate with my consciousness. And I think that it's just like a big never ending tapestry. It's that cathedral that I'll never finish being built, but I'm just here to like, open ended Lee and brick by brick with just being open vessel to the experiences.

00;38;25;16 - 00;38;42;14
Unknown
You're honoring those stories by telling them, you know and I know it's hard and you know, no need to feel weird or anything because I love talking about these things and I completely agree with you, you know, about how some dreams are just bigger than us. You know, so many people have past life experiences that it's just so hard to deny at this point.

00;38;42;14 - 00;39;14;29
Unknown
There is even a lot of physical evidence behind them. Yeah, Thank you. It's like you finding out, you know, exactly on the day, like, you know, the tribe and the Wounded Knee stuff and being able to find out specific details like that is really fascinating to me. Yeah, I just want to honor it because I know it's such a sensitive topic and I know that we live in a really multicultural world and I have utmost reverence for tribal cultures and in particular the shamanic work that teo goes and koshyari that they do.

00;39;15;05 - 00;39;42;10
Unknown
And I know that there's still a lot of healing to be done. And, you know, I don't necessarily think that, you know, one can ever completely heal, but I think that part of it is like I've heard a phrase that the wound is like the gateway, you know, like transmuting pain and trauma is, is the path that lets us grow into a bigger vessel than we were before.

00;39;42;13 - 00;39;59;06
Unknown
Kind of like that Japanese pottery technique where they fill the crack with gold to fix it. I know it's so hard to explain, but when it comes to all these timelines, but when you get a glimpse of the past or the future or whatever, what are your thoughts on how that works? Like, how are we able to see other times?

00;39;59;09 - 00;40;29;10
Unknown
I definitely think that time is non-linear. I definitely think that it has a quantum entanglement quality to where it's sort of like fractals out into sort of like different reality tunnels based on our choices and, the way we are entangled with matter on a conscious level and then the way that we're entangled as other people. And I think that those same relationships are similar to the structures of how karma works.

00;40;29;12 - 00;40;54;25
Unknown
I've had experiences where like I've been tripping balls on Farm Alaska and I have like a vision of a specific place in time that I've never been. And then years later I've found myself there. And there was an incident where, like I had told a former partner about that vision. And then fast forward a year and a half later, we're at the place that I mentioned in The Vision, and I turned to them while we're there and I say, Remember the time I told you about?

00;40;55;02 - 00;41;14;15
Unknown
And like I had sighted a very specific song that was playing in the vision and it was like a rat, a tat song. And I had described the environment of the vision. It was like a community center and it was like a party. And there was hardwood floor and it was kind of like an event. I used to do a lot of different production stuff for different like music events and things.

00;41;14;18 - 00;41;30;02
Unknown
And I was up in Humboldt and we were like those five performing at a party. And I brought him with me. And as soon as I said, Hey, remember the time I told you about that vision with the Rat a tat song? And he just went wild with us because he knew exactly what I was talking about. And he looked around.

00;41;30;02 - 00;41;55;06
Unknown
He was like, Holy fuck. This is the thing that you talked about a year and a half ago, So it's like déja vu is weird, especially when it happens. Like in almost like reverse, you know, we're like, if you foresee something, it's not like you know it in the moment. Like Asia is like when it happens back to back, like click, click, you've been here before, you've done this before, but this was like a year and a half between the Gap or that same from Alaska vision.

00;41;55;06 - 00;42;16;23
Unknown
Like I saw myself at Burning Man on Monday night tripping balls on K like part of my language people. It's that's just my experience And then you know a year and a half, two years later there I am at burning and just doing my art things. My friends, it's Monday evening and I look around and like, Wow, this is that place in time that I already got a glimpse of.

00;42;16;25 - 00;42;57;01
Unknown
So I definitely think that based on my personal experience with those like data sets, that time functions in a way that we only see in one format when our consciousness is suspended in this waking life. I think that it's simultaneously unfolding in a multiday national fashion that's interconnected in a non-linear with so like we see it in a straight line, but it's like probably on just like a crazy fractals fear of some kind, you know, like the multiverse is probably a three dimensional fractal moving through a hyper dimensional space, and we're just one little squiggle.

00;42;57;04 - 00;43;19;27
Unknown
But there's like parallel ones like because I've had dreams where these are just like you were saying, your friend were having dreams of whole lifetimes when she was four. I had dreams when I was very small, like six, seven, eight. Where and this is way before I got the sci fi. I had dreams of being a grown ass woman in another timeline in a deep future cyberpunk setting.

00;43;19;27 - 00;43;47;24
Unknown
And I was a courier spy transporting data and artifacts and espionage shit, and I was like, straight, like ghost in the shell style running missions. This is long before I ever saw anything remotely like Ghost in the Shell. I wasn't watching cyberpunk films at six years old, but I was dreaming about other worlds in distant technological futures, like involved in geopolitical tradecraft, which is the word for spy shit.

00;43;47;26 - 00;44;12;02
Unknown
So yeah, it's like I. I have no way to, like, account for any of these things. I just know that, like, I've had very detailed experiences that lead me to believe that things work in a way outside of like our current models account for. That's incredible. And that's why I do this podcast, because there's so much to talk about, so many experiences that are so valid and just open up the world to what we don't know.

00;44;12;02 - 00;44;39;08
Unknown
And yeah, when it comes to the structure of just the universe and these timelines and other lives and realities, it's bigger than our brain is built to understand. And that's why we have things like dreams and visions, psychedelics, meditations, whatever, to give us these little glimpses of what's out there to kind of remind us, you know, And that can be hard to deal with too, like you said, like you were when you remember all that past baggage from your past lives like that, it's really hard to bear.

00;44;39;08 - 00;45;08;16
Unknown
You know, there's a reason that we forget about it and we're little reminded in little, you know, a little glimpses because that that's a lot to carry for sure. Yeah. I think that on some level, the universe a little bit at a time gives us what we're capable of holding. And even if we have to stretch for it, sometimes it might take time sometimes, or we might need like camaraderie or support, you know, to be able to hold it or look at it that we only get dished out what we can hold.

00;45;08;19 - 00;45;32;17
Unknown
And I think that's what makes it really beautiful, being able to, you know, have the opportunities to be brave and share that with people because like so many dreams can just sit in my mind and impact me. But like when we're able to hold space for each other and just like, share, that's when we get a glimpse of how big the universe is for all of us in all of our personal experiences.

00;45;32;20 - 00;45;53;04
Unknown
Yeah, for sure. Theme share is so important. I'll share dreams all the time online and sometimes people will comment like, Wow, I really needed this or I really needed to hear this. And I didn't even think that it was that deep to me. But to somebody else they might really relate or benefit from it or be inspired by it and just normalize talking about dreams so that experiences can come out more.

00;45;53;06 - 00;46;14;20
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. You said something in the beginning that I wanted to ask you about. You mentioned that you have Fantasia, so you can't easily visualize things in your mind, is that so? You seem to have such a vivid dream life, though. So are you do you see visual imagery in your dreams and what is that experience like for you?

00;46;14;20 - 00;46;42;23
Unknown
I'm sure it's a spectrum as well. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Everything that I lack in my waking life without Fantasia is it doesn't, it doesn't exist in my dream life. I have such high clarity in my dream life that it's kind of terrifying. It's like I've had many episodes of almost like existential crisis after I wake up because the dream is so vivid and hyper real that it's totally outstrips anything I experience and reality.

00;46;42;23 - 00;47;10;21
Unknown
You know, I've got pretty good vision. I've got normal ass vision, maybe like a little bit of fantasia, like there is a spectrum. So I have that Fantasia, as far as glasses go, I meant to say I have a little bit of astigmatism. In other words, that starts with an IT. Yeah. So I Fantasia's typically a scale they there's illustrations people do find on Google it's like 125021 is no apple and then 2 to 3 is a very big apple four is like there's definitely an apple five is like a very hyper representation of Apple.

00;47;10;21 - 00;47;28;10
Unknown
I'm like a 0 to 1. Normally, like on a really good day, I might get two to a really good day. Like I am excited if I can even vaguely see anything. It doesn't affect my ability to draw or like, imagine what I want to draw. I just don't actually see it till it's on paper. It's hard to describe, but it's like I have.

00;47;28;10 - 00;47;50;03
Unknown
It's like I've side wired the processor to give me kind of like a spatial representation of it. This is kind of like a almost like a ghostly hologram. There's barely there. But as far as the dreams, like I would make jokes to my friends and family when I would relay my particularly vivid dreams because because I work in a lot of digital art now, we talk about things in terms of resolution.

00;47;50;03 - 00;48;16;01
Unknown
And so I about it being like instead of 4K, it's like eight K or like 16 K is just burning out the graphics card. It's so blisteringly hyperdimensional. It's definitely left me with sometimes weeks or months or years of just being perplexed how it's even possible. It's definitely a gift, but it's like something you have to grapple with and but it's beautiful.

00;48;16;01 - 00;48;41;09
Unknown
I'm very, very lucky. I'm super lucky. And the recall is also a thing. I think recall is is like a muscle. It's very trained. I've known people who have had teachers who don't dream of visuals at all. So I don't think that they're necessarily interconnected, but I think that it's on an individual basis, like what the relationship is between people's Fantasia neurologically and their ability to see things imagery as some folks as you know, they they don't dream visually.

00;48;41;09 - 00;49;07;02
Unknown
Sometimes they might dream and feelings or understandings of narratives, but they don't actually see anything. Or sometimes people won't be able to dream in color and sometimes people will be able to smell things in dreams or hear things in dreams. But my dreams are pretty visual that slightly auditory, not as vivid auditory as other. Sometimes I fall asleep to audio a lot because I just I have A.D.D. and so it's hard for me to fall asleep oftentimes.

00;49;07;04 - 00;49;39;22
Unknown
So a little bit of background noise really helps, especially like cool lectures. I'm very soothing and sometimes I'll have the audio from my real world sort of integrated into the dreams in different ways, which is always kind of funny and sometimes if it's music, it'll become soundtrack like. But yeah, I feel like in particular, after the Lucid Dreaming became more vivid with the the dream in 2018, with that sort of divine avatar character that the resolution of my dreams started escalating in tandem with the lucidity.

00;49;39;29 - 00;50;16;22
Unknown
And I ended up with this sort of dream track narrative that evolved over the course. I mean, it's just continuing to evolve over the course of many years where I was invited to join a dream, a lucid dreaming academy. When I say lucid dreaming, I mean like it's a hyperdimensional academy where these like beings create dreams. They actually like craft dreams and broadcast dreams to people and I and for, for that particular enrollment period, it was like a it's like a magical school thing about, like Harry Potter before, like hyperdimensional beings who make dreams.

00;50;16;29 - 00;50;35;21
Unknown
And I was one of the only I guess I was the only human during that enrollment period that was invited. As everybody else, I have lots of dreams with hyperdimensional beings that like human and like spiritual beings. And I remember being kind of confused and looking around me like, Wait a minute, I'm really, really monkey girl. I'm the only human here.

00;50;35;29 - 00;50;54;26
Unknown
The professor was giving an awesome speech. It's almost like Pixar dreams, and it was fantastic. It was like some ready player, one kind of thing where I'm looking at these giant walls in this auditorium that are like LED display screens, but they have a first person perspective of this crazy, like fantasy cosmic battle going on. And it was almost like a video game.

00;50;54;29 - 00;51;19;00
Unknown
And I'm watching it and I realize it's a dream. I realize it's somebody's perspective. Subjective POV of the dream, and it was almost like a demo reel of one of the dreams the Academy and the students had created and broadcast to someone. And after the talk the professor was talking to students and stuff, and I ran up to him and I was like, I have to get in this academy, Please let me in.

00;51;19;05 - 00;51;36;01
Unknown
He touched my head with his finger because you have that Fantasia. And it was kind of him saying like, this might be a problem I'm like, I don't know if I can let you in because, you know, I was like, Oh, that doesn't matter. Trust me. And he goes, Oh, he's like, All right, well, I'll let you in if you can do What I do is sure.

00;51;36;04 - 00;51;58;29
Unknown
And he transformed into one of those. They're like a medium sized hairless dog from Mexico. I forget their name, but they're they're very interesting looking. They look really mystical. They're not wrinkly like Sharpies, but they're totally here. This kind of like a grayish color, so transforms into one of these crazy hairless dogs. And he starts running through the air like parkour and through the air of the auditorium.

00;51;59;06 - 00;52;18;20
Unknown
And I was like, I gotcha. I'm going to I'm going to follow suit. So I transformed into a hairless dog, Mexican dog like him. And I just started procuring in the exact same squiggly pattern he made to there. And then he proceeded to. Okay, okay, okay. So I want you to wake up and then I want you to fall back asleep and I want you to find me and then I'll let you in.

00;52;18;26 - 00;52;44;18
Unknown
And so after a couple little like, wake up, jump back into the same dream line tests, you put me through a couple of tests. Then he reluctantly admitted me into the Dream Academy, and I've been having this reoccurring continuity of dreams over the past several years with different lessons through the academy. A lot of it involves like handing me more and more detailed dreams, and I have to detect the dream sometimes.

00;52;44;18 - 00;53;05;25
Unknown
Like the more detail the dream will be, the more you'll give it the. The assumption is probably reality. Like your suspension of disbelief is the higher threshold because it's more detail. But they'll give me weird circumstances and they'll be like, Can she detect it's a dream? And so it took him maybe like two years of lucid dreaming, detection stuff and then I got assigned about a year ago.

00;53;05;25 - 00;53;27;01
Unknown
I got assigned a specialized professor to like study directly under and I cried like a baby when I met her. It was so cool. She's so cool. Her name is Melody and she is her name is Melody. Of the Eight Flowers of Fate. They are her face. This what she said and like this epic music from the Good, the Bad and the Ugly played when she appeared.

00;53;27;01 - 00;53;52;03
Unknown
It was an excessive gold played. It was very, very epic. Yeah. It's been an ongoing journey with this Dream academy. And then part of it is like they want me to create aspects of the Dream Academy in this world and just sort of like, be a bridge between that Dream Academy and one here. Wow, this is cool. This is inspiring me on so many levels.

00;53;52;10 - 00;54;14;09
Unknown
Of all, I knew that there was some sort of committee that like set broadcasted dreams to people I just like. That concept has always made sense to me. Please tell your professors that I want in and I'm so serious. Like, this sounds so cool. Like, yeah, absolutely. It's super fun, but it's also just like, freaky shit, Oh, I can't live your game.

00;54;14;12 - 00;54;36;21
Unknown
And that's half the battle. That's cool. I mean, we're going to have to do this again some time because there's so much to go into. But you so you said you're going to bridge the gap, which I love between the real world and the other dream world. So what are you doing now? Like I know you mentioned to me kind of that you're working on a course or whatever, but what's like you're your aspirations for is teaching about.

00;54;36;21 - 00;55;09;05
Unknown
Yeah, okay, so I'm polishing up the how haven't say like I have the first three courses they're sort of micro courses but they're the kind of thing that somebody could watch and follow along and practice on their own. But they're also open to community building. Like if people want to, you know, like potentially work with me, my one on one, all of the modules have additional like expansion packs, I guess you can call it through one on one work.

00;55;09;05 - 00;55;31;15
Unknown
I want to launch that before the end of the year. My life has been extremely wild the past few months, so I've been sitting on this for a little bit in my in my personal personal life. I'm actually working on the world's largest holodeck right now for a real estate four seasons thing, which is really cool. Like, there's no there's no like NDA stuff, whatever, and there's tons of press releases.

00;55;31;15 - 00;55;55;12
Unknown
So it's not like I would be giving away secret sauce by saying it. But I definitely think that, like, fate put me in the right place at the right time to be involved in this project, and I'm excited to see how it'll affect, like the trajectory of my work with VR and dreaming related stuff in the future. So a lot of my personal time is pretty dedicated to just like seeing that contract out.

00;55;55;16 - 00;56;13;23
Unknown
That goes till the end of the year. But in my off time personally, I'm hoping I can launch the course in the next few months. I have some of my really respected and dear friends who are in similar fields, sort of like critiquing it right now. I have my buddy, I've asked him to critique it. I'm waiting for him to critique it.

00;56;13;23 - 00;56;34;20
Unknown
My buddy Jason Love at Ultra Culture Podcast. I definitely recommend people go check him out. He's one of the most talented magicians of our generation. He's also a historian in the occult magic arts. Like he's badass. I respect and adore him. We did a talk on VR and Magic about two years ago that people could find on his podcast.

00;56;34;22 - 00;56;56;03
Unknown
He also runs a magical school called Magic Dot Me. I also recommend people check that out, and it's something that I plan on openly developing long term and incorporating a lot of me sharing my personal experience because I feel like a lot of the information that I get transmitted, even if it's just like storytelling, is relevant to other people's dream journeys.

00;56;56;06 - 00;57;26;00
Unknown
So the first three modules cover the basics of lucid dreaming. There's some like herbal assistance stuff. There's oil like essential oil assistance. There's several essential oils that help people with popping through the city, which is kind of cool. And then I've been developing sort of like my own approach to dream interpretation. That's not just based on things like yoga and psychology, but it's also based on understanding the people's own subjective matrix of meaning.

00;57;26;00 - 00;57;49;14
Unknown
So it's like they kind of look at their own personal history and symbolic syntax and they can find a way to like find a middle ground between an objective dream and one that's bespoke and tailored to their own personal mythology, if that makes sense. As like we can have other people interpret our dreams, but they'll never really understand how personal meanings work for us in our own private life.

00;57;49;20 - 00;58;10;11
Unknown
So finding like a happy medium between that has been my personal approach to dream interpretation over the years. So like communicating that and then also getting people familiar with this idea of what I mentioned before as far as kind of personal dreams where it's people in your life and like you are you and it's sort of a 1 to 1 with reality.

00;58;10;11 - 00;58;48;10
Unknown
Maybe you have that classic dream where like, you end up naked by accident at school and you're embarrassed, you know, or like you dream about your teeth aching or breaking apart and you have like financial stress or whatever, like these things that are common archetypes versus dreams where like, you're not yourself or there might be more mythical symbols or transhuman stuff going on, you know, we're like mythical beings and stuff versus like deep field cosmic dreams, which tend to move more into the realm of Tibetan dreaming, yoga things where there's almost like a meditative, clear light abyss that goes beyond just dream matrices.

00;58;48;12 - 00;59;21;25
Unknown
So kind of familiarizing people with these techniques and vocabularies and categories, but then also just like getting them suited up to then do personal work and potentially just, you know, reach out if they want to work with me on how to tailor their own dream development techniques, etc.. Do you have any like just overarching shin closing advice for for people who want more out of their dreams, maybe to explore themselves beyond this life?

00;59;21;28 - 00;59;46;29
Unknown
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I know this is going to sound like fucking basic, but journaling is absolutely key. Like it's a muscle. It's like if you want to be an athlete, you got to exercise every day and you got to train your muscles. And if you want to be, you know, if you want to dive deep with dream work, I mean, I even fall in and out of my journaling habit for real.

00;59;47;01 - 01;00;05;18
Unknown
Like I'll still have those power punch dreams that come out of nowhere. I'm like, Oh my God, And I don't need a journal. Then because they just leave such an indelible mark. But journaling is a big deal because even if it's just little tiny chunks of dreams, once you get into the habit, it becomes easier to have recall and then you might see patterns with the the journaling.

01;00;05;18 - 01;00;25;01
Unknown
And I find that I treat themes like little hashtags that really help. So it was just like a bunch of one word. Little hashtag moments is very useful for like making thematic connections over time with your dreams. Something that comes from my understanding of like how to remember a day trip is very useful in Dream world as well.

01;00;25;02 - 01;00;40;14
Unknown
Don't try to remember your dream from the beginning. Try to remember your dream from the very last thing that happened to you and then move backwards. It is a lot easier to be like I was just there and then you'd be like, And then before that and then before that, as opposed to being like, Where the hell that I would start?

01;00;40;14 - 01;00;57;08
Unknown
Because you're just going to get lost just linearly backtrack because that's how your brain catalogs it. I think those are the two things that are the easiest. I have a lot of basic stuff that I cover in my cute little YouTube video, like I list all those oils and herbs I mentioned. Is it pretty common knowledge or you just Google it?

01;00;57;08 - 01;01;22;29
Unknown
But I just took it all in one place in a short little 20 minute video. If people want to see, which is fun. I also recommend that like just draw, you know, like draw doodles of things from your dreams. It helps your recall and like, just like dreams are a blessing, you know, like we go through our lives and a lot of times we just, you know, not everybody feels confident because they're like, oh, you know, I just have this mundane life and I just dream about being late to work.

01;01;22;29 - 01;01;44;14
Unknown
And, you know, but if you really just kind of like let go of expectations and just give your your consciousness a chance to, like, boot up in a different way with your dreams and just keep journaling like it's like a thread out of a sock and it will start to, like, unravel this crazy tapestry, you know? And it's like, like I said, it's like a muscle.

01;01;44;17 - 01;02;10;28
Unknown
So I think that and then, you know, just finding some dream sharing buddies is huge. One of the most important things about my childhood was having a bestie that we did a lot of like dream sharing and we did a lot of like guided visual meditation stuff before bed. We would kind of we both love Narnia and we always wanted to go to Narnia C.S. Lewis series.

01;02;11;00 - 01;02;25;03
Unknown
So we would be like, Yeah, let's go to Narnia in our dreams tonight. Like, I'm going to I'm going to go to this place, but I'm going to have a sword or a bow and arrow. And if you meet me there, then we'll go on a year and we would do it and we would come back and dream share the next morning.

01;02;25;03 - 01;02;51;22
Unknown
And we would like remarkably have very similar experiences, even beyond the point that we have verbalize, meeting place and things like that. And to this day I still share dreams with her. We still share motifs and themes that sync up within days of each other and it knocks our socks off all the time. So just like be open to the magical stuff that can happen, you know, it's it's the closest thing we have to like tangible, everyday magic.

01;02;51;25 - 01;03;13;01
Unknown
That's fine now. Yeah. Just like tune into this podcast. More people listening. This is good shit. And just like, support the dreamers and become the dreamers and help other people dream more to like just share what you learned as you go. And the more people we get dream and the more we can shape our own reality in this world.

01;03;13;03 - 01;03;30;22
Unknown
I know a lot of people are going to love this episode because we just you took me on a whole journey of just, you know, all your life experiences and it was just so incredible. I'm so honored and so, so honored. I feel like I've done a couple other podcasts and I've done my my show for a couple of years now.

01;03;30;24 - 01;03;55;20
Unknown
A lot of times I'll cover like sci fi and philosophy and technology and other thinkers, and oftentimes I don't really dive deep into my own personal experiences because I love sharing information about other people's work that inspires me. So I feel really, really grateful to have the opportunity to share stuff that is personal and has shaped me and like shaped my motivation to take the journey that I have.

01;03;55;27 - 01;04;14;23
Unknown
And so I feel like this means a lot to me to be able to, like, tap into that side of what I would like to share more of. And I'm really just grateful for you to share your platform so people can, you know, check out what I've done and like what you do and what we can do together in the future because our work is so aligned.

01;04;14;23 - 01;04;36;04
Unknown
I'm just really excited to connect with you. I'm fairly active on Instagram. I love Braille. There's a lot of cat pictures, but there's a lot of my art. There's a lot of the different mediums that I do besides VR. I do a lot of performance art and costuming and like weird film stuff and 2D art. I am releasing a book with my mentor, David J.

01;04;36;04 - 01;04;58;24
Unknown
Brown, who wrote a book on Dreaming a couple of years ago called Dreaming Wide Awake about Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing and Psychedelics. He's an amazing guy. He's been my mentor since I was 19. He is a psychedelic interviewer and we're doing a book on the Illustrated guide to do entities, and that's going to be released from inner traditions in probably 2025 and their spring catalog.

01;04;58;24 - 01;05;20;24
Unknown
We're going to be finishing it within the next few months. It's got over 30 different entries of different Dante beings, and they're all illustrated with Amazing Mid Journey Air, as well as contributions from other artists. So I recommend people check him out. But like look for a book coming out next year. And my YouTube channel is Dream Seed Underscore VR.

01;05;20;26 - 01;05;41;00
Unknown
So I just called I call my little channel Dream CVR. I talk about VR and psychedelics and tech and philosophy and sci fi culture and a lot of ethical stuff with technology as well. So just at that sweet spot overlap that I talked about earlier, that's kind of where I bounce around those different spheres. But I think those are probably the best two places to find me.

01;05;41;00 - 01;06;12;17
Unknown
You can find my website is w WW .7. com. It's as they are a p h i. N. N. Yeah. I think those are probably the three best places to check out my work, but people can feel free to message my inbox on Instagram. But in the meantime, the first course is open to the public. It's my lucid dreaming and VR video on my YouTube and that's someone that has details about herbs and essential oils, as well as the studies that show VR enhances lucid dreaming.

01;06;12;19 - 01;06;28;18
Unknown
There's definitely a lot of people's work that I would love to share with you and your audience as far as like different thinkers and authors and researchers that are super interesting. And then I definitely have lots of other like Wild Dream stories that I would love to share that tie in to some of the other ones that I shared today.

01;06;28;18 - 01;06;47;13
Unknown
So that would take me to be able to do this again with you sometime. Oh, hell yeah. All right. So y'all can expect a part two and we'll plan it Sounds good. Well, thank you so much. I hope you have a beautiful day. And I hope everybody just, like, keeps dreaming, right? Yes, you too. Sarah. Thank you so much for your amazing energy, and I'll be in touch.

01;06;47;13 - 01;06;58;00
Unknown
Yeah, likewise. Bye.