The Dream World

EP53: Persistent Dream Realms

December 26, 2023 Amina Feat. Voidway Explorer Season 2 Episode 20
The Dream World
EP53: Persistent Dream Realms
The Dream World
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Show Notes Transcript

A persistent dream realm (PR) is a dream world you can return to that has reoccurring settings, characters, and laws of nature. Persistent Realms can be as simple or elaborate as you want. Voidway Explorer is an experienced lucid dreamer and video game developer. He uses his dreams for inspiration in his work. He is the creator of Voidway PR, an ongoing world powered by lucid dreaming. In this episode, we talk about lucid dreaming techniques and how to create persistent dream realms. We also talk about the gamification of lucid dreaming and a bit about the future of dream technology.   

The Mnemonic Induction of Lucid Dreams technique, or MILD, is a prospective memory technique designed to help you set and carry out the intention to remember that you are dreaming. Stephen LaBerge developed this method during his dissertation research to increase willful access to the lucid dreaming state. To read more about how to do MILD, click here

Links
Voidway's Website
Youtube Channel
Play ATNRPG
Melting Passion Demo

Highlights
3:30 Persistent realms
4:45 Video games based on lucid dreams
8:40 Games designed by Voidway Explorer
16:45 Dream recording
17:20 Converting thoughts to digital images
Michael Raduga: The Phase Free E-Book
20:05 AI and dreams
22:20 IASD Conference
28:45 Lucid dreaming technology


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Lucid Dreaming Online Course

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;32;08
Unknown
Dream recording would be revolutionary. A dream recall. My dream recall wouldn't be a problem the people needed to solve. Michael Raduga, He's been doing a lot recently and I've been looking into age. He basically converted audio from Fox to like digital. It's the possibility of dream recording that I'm really intrigued by. I would love back a few years ago, around December 2020, I got into lucid dreaming from a friend well early.

00;00;32;08 - 00;00;53;15
Unknown
I knew about it at first through some YouTube recommendations, like I got recommended on this one channel exploring lucid dreaming. But there was a friend of mine who was into it and, well, just he basically, you know, got me into, you know, all the techniques and everything, how to do them properly, how to lose the dream. And that's it's just been my thing.

00;00;53;15 - 00;01;17;26
Unknown
I've been really deep into it ever a. So your first lucid dream was in 2020. Yeah. Yeah. That's when I started practicing. I did a number. I've had natural lucid dreams beforehand. I'm pretty sure my first was at like 2016, 2017. I was just I don't know what what it was about was when you started in trying to induce a lucid dream, what kind of things worked for you?

00;01;18;04 - 00;01;44;27
Unknown
I'd heard of various versions of the MILD Technique Mnemonic and this. Yeah, I did a ton of those. I first started like the version that's kind of like on line, the whole mantra, whatever. Basically auto suggestion. I did that data first and it didn't work out. And then my friend explained to me the original exploring the lucid dreaming version, which is the one that I carried through doing this.

00;01;44;27 - 00;02;06;14
Unknown
Understand? Yeah. Cool. So it's been a couple years now. Do you feel like you still use techniques or do you have more spontaneous, lucid dreams now that you're more into it? Well, honestly, it's kind of just become like a nightly routine to do the techniques. Almost every night I do wake back to bed and I do it without thought nowadays, almost.

00;02;06;16 - 00;02;28;05
Unknown
And also, ever since then, I've I've done techniques in my time that are just like now and again. I don't I do wild every now and then. I do like daytime incubation every now and then for lucid dreaming. Do you remember like your first lucid dream that was really like satisfying to you? Like the first one where you, you felt successful.

00;02;28;08 - 00;02;50;04
Unknown
Yes. So I'm pretty sure this is just in my head now. My first lucid dream since I started practicing was on day eight, and that one was just okay. I did. I did some dream control every now and then. But the first one that I really, really enjoyed was on day 27. I'm pretty sure the environment was really amazing.

00;02;50;04 - 00;03;16;15
Unknown
It was vivid. It was the first lucid dream I really felt, you know, Yes, this is this is what I have to keep doing. Nice. And what kind of things do you do while lucid? It has changed through the years. Usually beforehand I've had set goals like in my lucid dreams, that I just I intend to do them and sometimes I do do them, sometimes I don't.

00;03;16;15 - 00;03;38;06
Unknown
And then, well, it's just it was like every few months I had these goals and I did them and I moved on to the next one. Nowadays it's more of I do this, I have a persistent Now persistent problem is basically like you have to lucid dream, right And and you you go back to it basically you go back to the world, you go back to the plotline.

00;03;38;06 - 00;03;58;29
Unknown
You go back to pretty much like everything that happened in the last persistent realm dream. So every time you go into the dream, is it the environment is the same, the characters, are there variations to it? Every time you go into the persistent room? The persistent I really just start it like it starts like a normal, lucid dream, right?

00;03;59;02 - 00;04;22;00
Unknown
And then, well, I want it to be a persistent realm dream. So I teleport to it and I then carry through like what I was planning in the last dream. I love that I was looking at your website. I see that you have a really interesting story that I was reading is this story from the persistent realm, like ideas and stories that you got from the dreams.

00;04;22;02 - 00;04;45;12
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. Those stories on the website are pretty much just the section by section, by goal. By goal is what I've been kind of organizing my PR into. Like every few months I have a new thing that I'm doing in my persistent realm. And then that was every time it starts up again. Pretty much I'm writing it down.

00;04;45;12 - 00;05;05;06
Unknown
It's basically like a dream journal, but, you know, made into a kind of story. Yeah, that's awesome. It's honestly a good story. You're going to, like, make it into like a book or a movie someday. Are you just kind of going along with it? I'm not sure if I mentioned this at the conference, but I make games in my spare time.

00;05;05;06 - 00;05;29;07
Unknown
I'm a game developer, kind of. I made some of this stuff in some of my games based upon the The Persistent Realm. My first like genuine game and the first game that I made about lucid dreaming. It's called an RPG. I published it around March this year, but it wasn't the development for about four years. There was a lot of like in an owl on it.

00;05;29;07 - 00;05;57;12
Unknown
There was a lot of major story changes and at the end there in the last few months of development, I kind of tweaked the story around it to like integrate it into my PR and now it's this it's just big finish. So when it comes to this persistent round that you go to and you get content and ideas from, do you feel like these realms that you're able to create, are they just a part of your subconscious mind or is it like a place in the universe that exists that you just visit?

00;05;57;14 - 00;06;22;06
Unknown
Well, yeah, The cool thing about it is it doesn't feel like a dream exclusive. I think it feels very it's very immersive and it's very like, you know, it feels like I'm there and it feels like I'm making good progress towards my goals in that world. Really. Have you ever had other people visit this realm, or is it just something that you like a personal journey of yours?

00;06;22;09 - 00;06;49;03
Unknown
Well, I'm funnily enough, I actually did try back when I was more involved with the Lucid Dreaming Discord community. I remember I did have some lucid dreamers we would share. We would share experiences with peers and try to maybe like I go visit each other's paths. But it didn't. It didn't really work out for obvious reasons because it is kind of difficult to get the same mindset from it.

00;06;49;05 - 00;07;13;08
Unknown
I say, Yeah, makes sense. So do you like build it as you go every time you go into the dream? Or do you feel like when you go, it's already pre-built based on what you've done before? When I go into the dream, when I, when I get lucid in my dreams and I, I want to say like, this is a persistent dream, I basically just kind of wall like activated as opposed dream.

00;07;13;08 - 00;07;35;05
Unknown
And then it goes on as like it continues as a thing. Okay, interesting. And then it kind of does it like shift to the environment that, you know, to be your persistent realm? Yeah, Yeah. Usually because it's because there are certain locations in it that I go back to. Like there's like this dungeon that I was always going back to and I will just teleported to it.

00;07;35;05 - 00;07;56;21
Unknown
And then when I was there, it was persistent about an RPG, the game that I'm that I finished. It was very story based. The lucid dreaming kind of aspects to it don't change the gameplay all that much. I did kind of change it every now and then to make it more well, to make the feeling of the game more dreamlike.

00;07;56;24 - 00;08;24;23
Unknown
Is there other dream related games that you think of making one day? Yes, I'm working on another game. It's called Melting Passion. And this one's funny because it's not overtly related to the story, but the main character of the game, Hoshi is a big PR character, so what's the premise of the game? Is it to learn how to lose a dream or what's the goal of the game essentially?

00;08;24;26 - 00;09;00;13
Unknown
Which which game are you referring to? Yeah, well, both of them. Really? Yeah. So in that in OPG, it's basically a story about it's this guy, he's in a dystopian future world which they have this technology that allows them to lose a dream, like at the click of a button, basically. And it's all like interface and everything. And what he does is he kind of uses that for escapism at first, and then he learns some stuff and then he tries to figure out how to, like, use the dream to his advantage.

00;09;00;13 - 00;09;21;00
Unknown
It's a long game and there's a lot of like minor plot points to it. They kind of bundle together and there's also melting passion, which is the game I'm making right now. It's really it's kind of like lucid dreaming based. The main character Caché is he's making these drinks that induce lucid dreaming. And it's not it's not really.

00;09;21;03 - 00;09;44;15
Unknown
I want to get into the plot. Okay, cool. So there's, like, elements of lucid dreaming in the game. Yeah. Okay. So is it like, aimed towards lucid dreamers or just anybody? And the first game the first game was definitely aimed towards lucid dreamers. I did a lot of advertising in the streaming communities because, you know, it's it's kind of an appeal to lucid dreaming, just the dreamers.

00;09;44;17 - 00;10;15;09
Unknown
This game. This game is more or less for general audiences. I did include lucid dreaming content just because it's my thing. So how like I know that statistically, like playing video games can actually help with lucid Dream induction or even dream control. Have you do you know anything about that? What's your experience with that? I've kind of been all into that stuff all my life and I don't really know if there's any difference between, you know, if I did or did not include game type stuff and do it.

00;10;15;09 - 00;10;35;27
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. I mean, for me, I've noticed that lucid dream, The way I see it is kind of like a VR game. Fully immersive, right? Yeah, that's like, like that mindset kind of when you're playing video games, you're kind of have that mindset of making choices as a different avatar and controlling the scene or whatever. So it kind of makes sense is the same basic thought process behind being an elusive dream.

00;10;36;00 - 00;10;52;04
Unknown
And I've noticed since I've started playing some video games, like I'll make video game type decisions in my lucid dreams, like the way I move or like, you know, the way I get around. Sometimes I'll take like video game mechanics and use them in my dreams. So I thought that was interesting. Have you had any other places like that?

00;10;52;07 - 00;11;22;01
Unknown
Maybe. Maybe I did. I don't really have any recall of it, but I do know that there were some people that I knew who always would integrate like magic systems from different games, like combat, from different games in their lucid dreams. It seems to be a very like a very popular thing that people do is they take, you know, combat magic systems from these games and kind of use it as a basis for their stuff in lucid dreams.

00;11;22;03 - 00;11;45;08
Unknown
Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, games and movies even can give you ideas for how to do things in a lucid dream as long as you have the confidence and the dream control to be able to do that. So I notice that is interesting. What do you feel about the elements of like how you could make learning lucid dreaming kind of like a game, you know, without it being like a competitive thing because I don't want it to be like, you know, you just faking the data to move along.

00;11;45;08 - 00;12;17;22
Unknown
You know, you want to actually learn how to lucid dream. So I do recall in an RPG there was a section of the game that kind of dream control like elaborated on dream control. So you did a thing and then you got these items that are basically like schemas, and then you could use those schemas for, well, different like different stuff, basically really all tied together into one, into one section because it didn't see an RPG, didn't have a very like complex daily design type thing.

00;12;17;24 - 00;12;51;07
Unknown
Your question did recall that stuff where you can, you know, you can personify like aspects of lucid dreaming into well, items like you know stuff and use those items on, you know, Yeah, that makes sense. I also think like characters in the dream could also be used in the game too. Like I've noticed, I don't know if you've ever had this type of dream, but I've had some dreams where I have like this dream police kind of thing, you know, or like some sort of, like guard who's, like, trying to either make me not lucid or make me wake up, you know, or people call them like the shadow people or whatever.

00;12;51;07 - 00;13;06;07
Unknown
I don't know. A lot of people have these, like, dream characters, so I've always thought that could be like a bad guy in the game trying to make you wake up or lose lucidity and then you got to do little side quests to stabilize the dream or something. I don't know that that would that sounds fun. I would play that kind of game.

00;13;06;10 - 00;13;48;12
Unknown
Yeah. An RPG did have some characters, some minor characters who would who would pretty much like active role. And then later on they would completely change roles on to like kind of take on a new personality and kind of block you from stuff or let you do certain things. Actually, one of the main antagonists of the game is one of those characters who starts out as a guy who helps you, but when he, like, finds out that you know that it's a dream, he does a bunch of like blocks or dream control, he does all this stuff.

00;13;48;15 - 00;14;20;17
Unknown
So yeah, that is, that is a concept that works out pretty well. Can you spell it like in 80 an RPG? What is like the progression of the game? Like what types of challenges and things you have to do in order to like beat the game or how does it work? Interestingly enough, at the start of the game, the first the first half basically, and this is this is big spoilers, the main character, the Dreamer, basically is a side character and you are playing that as a dream character.

00;14;20;17 - 00;14;46;02
Unknown
And so you go through together in this in this kind of people like dream space and you know, you're going through this stuff and it starts out as like a normal type of, well, a normal like RPG game. And then you find out about all this dream stuff that the main characters a lucid dream mode, that this dream is basically like at his fingertips so he can like or is able to do anything basically.

00;14;46;02 - 00;15;09;05
Unknown
And then later on you switch the plank as him. And and like I said before, you have this character who's trying to play your dream control and then the rest of the game is pretty much trying to get your dream control back as well, leaving the lucid dream going back into the real world. That's also I could see how playing this game would help you just have more lucid dreams, you know?

00;15;09;05 - 00;15;30;03
Unknown
You're just thinking about it all the time. I'm looking it up right now. So this is a single player game, right? If you were to make this a multiplayer game, how would that work? I don't think that no RPG is the type of game that would really work out for multiplayer because it's kind of like the best thing I could compare it to is kind of like a Zelda game.

00;15;30;05 - 00;15;56;07
Unknown
It's not exactly multiplayer based, but what about the other one? Is that one still in progress or is that one playable? Two Melting passion is a work in progress. Still, it's being developed actively. It should be out, I'm guessing around April next year. Melting passion is pretty much like it's it's different. It's very different that one might work out for multiplayer.

00;15;56;11 - 00;16;19;00
Unknown
Yeah, there is actually a demo that you can get on on each. I think it's on my Discord server, but you can, you can find it. I think it's really awesome that you make games. Do you have any ideas of like where you want to take this later on? I don't know my not my goal per say, but I've had this idea for some time now to make the board way persistent.

00;16;19;06 - 00;16;40;00
Unknown
I'm like a big thing, you know, you have more games on it, you have you have the story like kind of chapters that are on my website and just make more and more of them. And as it progresses, maybe like I'd like to use the popular like popularized or lucid dreaming more. That's kind of my idea with it.

00;16;40;03 - 00;17;06;23
Unknown
You've been like beginners, really. It's just because I have all of this, all of this law to it. And I think if people enjoy that kind of stuff, they might see that is it is based on lucid dreaming and we'll get into it someday. And there are all aspects of dreaming that are in the Void API itself. There was a character in there recently who was he also controlled dreams.

00;17;06;25 - 00;17;27;00
Unknown
It was like me and him who are controlling the dream programing and lucid dreaming. That's basically what quite what I'm made of. That's really awesome. I mean, I think that's like such a good the opportunities for the future because both of those things are great skills to have that I think are just getting started. So I'm excited for you.

00;17;27;00 - 00;17;56;00
Unknown
I think those skills are going to take you very far. You see that it's possible to kind of combine the two. Have you ever looked into Michael Dugas stuff? Yes, the phase, Michael Duga, he's been doing a lot recently and I've been looking into he basically converted audio from Fox to like digital, like there was this guy, he was thinking of music and then it came out onto the I'm pretty sure there was some like complex brainwave stuff.

00;17;56;00 - 00;18;21;15
Unknown
I'm not I'm not too deep into it. It's the possibility of dream recording that I'm really like, intrigued by. I would love that. I know that would be really cool. I mean, do you feel like there could be pros and cons to it? Like what kind of privacy concerns unless it's like, you know, mega-corporations that are like always recording your dreams and selling them that would that would definitely be problematic.

00;18;21;15 - 00;18;39;03
Unknown
But if it's just person or if it's if it turns out to be like screen recording on a computer at one point, like just that, then it would be it would be amazing. That would be so cool if I could wake up in the morning and watch my dreams like, like a show. I think dream recording would be revolutionary.

00;18;39;04 - 00;19;03;02
Unknown
A dream recall, Like, dream recall wouldn't be a problem the people need it to solve or it's, you know, you can still have the skills of recalling dreams manually and like, but really it just makes them. And then you play them back later and you remember them as like a non dream thing. And it stays in your memory easier that way, I'm pretty sure.

00;19;03;05 - 00;19;26;20
Unknown
Yeah, that's interesting. I can't even like fathom what kind of technology that would take. Yeah, and it is like very early on I've seen stuff of like I trying to take frames of people's thoughts and it's like you can have videos at like five frames per second of spots, but it's, it's very early on. It doesn't work quite right.

00;19;26;22 - 00;19;43;15
Unknown
It's a possibility. I mean, yeah, you know, a lot of things when they were early on didn't work like, right, Like if you think of the Internet, you know, 20, 30 years ago. So I think in the next 30 to 50 years, this is definitely something that we could see in our lifetimes that's like really crazy to think about.

00;19;43;18 - 00;20;10;29
Unknown
Yeah. And honestly, really, I think Dream recording would seriously benefit me because I've had this idea for a while of having like, of having day kind of easy way or having like a reliable way to kind of share the, like the persistent Realm stuff. I can write it down on a website and that's and that's fine. But if you, if you could just watch it, if you could watch it as it goes on, like, like a TV show.

00;20;11;00 - 00;20;31;22
Unknown
Yeah. Imagine what it would do for, like, movies and films. Like, I would just dream up a movie in one night and send it out to Netflix like that would be crazy because the things I can create in my dream are, like, so beautiful and vivid. If I could show people that, that would be game changer. Where do you stand with like A.I. and dream analysis and that kind of stuff like you trusted?

00;20;31;22 - 00;20;56;07
Unknown
Do you think it's going towards a good future? Really, I'm I'm kind of mixed on AI a lot of the time. I see new stuff and I think that it's it's great. Like when I was first introduced, I was I was blown away by it seemed amazing. But nowadays, because you have all these companies who are replacing people for A.I., that is, that is definitely problematic.

00;20;56;07 - 00;21;22;07
Unknown
And I can't I don't think I can support it, honestly. Dream like interpretation in general is really like my thing. I kind of like taking dreams directly as they are. It seems more, more fun to me and I know people would disagree on that, but I don't know. It's just my spots. Yeah, I mean, that's what I love about dream work is everybody gets in it for different reasons.

00;21;22;07 - 00;21;42;04
Unknown
You know, some people want to have fun in their lucid dream. Some people have certain goals or things they want to do. Some people and some more spiritual reasons. But there's something in lucid dreaming for everybody. Like I always say that. So, you know, it makes sense. How did you get into Lucid dreaming? Because I know I have a lot of a lot of time, whatever I got.

00;21;42;04 - 00;21;59;12
Unknown
So I had natural, like, spontaneous, lucid dreams when I was a child. Like the first one I remember I was like eight years old, but I just like, would like, wake up and, you know, notice I was dreaming and the dream, I didn't really know all the possibilities and stuff. And then I went to college. I studied psychology.

00;21;59;12 - 00;22;19;04
Unknown
I started to have more, like, interesting dreams and like, I always thought dreams are cool and like, I always loved my dreams. But then I had, like, sleep paralysis and false awakenings. And I noticed that, like, there's a lot more to explore there. And then around COVID, like around that time, which kind of I noticed a lot of people woke up to lucid dreaming around that time, which is interesting.

00;22;19;06 - 00;22;37;17
Unknown
But I met like a whole community, you know, just being online all the time, met other dreamers and people like you doing stuff. I found out about the LSD conference and I just started talking to people and that's kind of how the podcast came to life. And I even like, did my master's thesis on Lucid Dreaming. So I just started researching it and stuff.

00;22;37;19 - 00;23;18;20
Unknown
So was the last I said your first or did you go to the other one stay? No, that was my first one and I really, really loved it. I just like it really inspired me and I really want to go to the Netherlands one, so hopefully I'll see you there. Yeah, I actually was amazing. I mean, I honestly felt like I was I was kind of going to another level in terms of lucid dreaming community because like online people really anyone can go on my online dreaming community, but it's, I feel as though it's the most it's most dedicated people that end up at real life events.

00;23;18;20 - 00;24;06;28
Unknown
And so it leads to amazing conversations and amazing experiences. What was your favorite, like talks or like workshops that you participated in? I think it was on Tuesday. There was a there was a research fang involving the dream characters on kind of how they work scientifically. In terms of the dream, I think it was that one that was really like eye opening in terms of PR stuff because because the PR is very character based, there's a lot of different characters and it's, you know, honestly, since I started doing characters, I've kind of been my favorite aspect of lucid dreaming, like how, how different they can be and how diverse the dream space is.

00;24;07;05 - 00;24;38;06
Unknown
And it was it was great. And honestly, all of the other all of the other ones were, were great. All of them had did an amazing job at presenting. Yeah, that's awesome. Honestly, I enjoyed it too. I love how there was so much like this, like the community aspect to it. Everybody there was like, so nice. Yeah. And, and I met some people who I didn't think I'd know them if I didn't go to is the like, do Jesse or Jesse lie on Robert Wagner?

00;24;38;07 - 00;24;59;24
Unknown
I did look into his books beforehand, but honestly, I didn't think I'd ever get to meet him. Yeah, I know. I'm sure you can relate, but I felt like I was meeting celebrities. You know, when you get into Lucid Dream World, you're like, Wow, All these books, all these, you know, creators and pioneers of the dream field that have been doing this for even longer than I'm been alive.

00;24;59;24 - 00;25;24;04
Unknown
And then you meet them and you're like, wow, Like, this feels so surreal. They're just awesome. Normal people like us who love talking about dreams. So I love that about it. Like, everyone is so nice. Yeah, that's definitely it would have been cool to go to the 39th Conference because of that one. I wasn't there, but Steven, the bird was there and my friend who actually got me into lucid dreaming sort of, Oh wow, what bird share?

00;25;24;06 - 00;25;47;17
Unknown
It strengthened my motivation as a lucid dreamer because I was at the time I was kind of I was kind of like messy in terms of like where I was in the community. Like I wasn't sure what my place was in the lucid dreaming community. But since the conference, I kind of decided that all of that stuff doesn't really matter since everyone's so great.

00;25;47;17 - 00;26;05;09
Unknown
It's just passionate people. And as I'm focusing more on like lucid dreaming, like the concept of lucid dreaming, you know, and we were in the same dream group actually, but I came in the second day and it's I loved it. And it gave me a lot of ideas, too. Did a great job of doing the morning Dream Group.

00;26;05;12 - 00;26;22;06
Unknown
And actually, since we were talking about gamification, she did some awesome things, like in terms of just keeping it fun and making it a game. Like the reality checks. We had to go around looking for like weird dream signs and things and do reality checks, which I thought was a great way to get people to look out for things and just be more mindful.

00;26;22;08 - 00;26;53;08
Unknown
I thought that was Yeah, yeah, it was. It was great. Actually. It did remind me of, you know, dream fuzed form. Yeah. So, yeah, we've been doing this thing for about a year now. It's these seasonal, lucid dreaming competitions where it's kind of like, yeah, you have these like point systems and then every lucid dream you get like these points and what you do in the lucid dreams get these points and it's like a team based, competitive, lucid dreaming game.

00;26;53;08 - 00;27;13;24
Unknown
And it reminds me of that dream because honestly, I think dream views are still because you have all these discord servers and subreddits. Right? But I think I feel like in terms of forums, dream views is the best like best forum out there. And actually speaking of the morning group, it is kind of funny. There's a thing and melting passion.

00;27;13;26 - 00;27;34;26
Unknown
Do you remember that? That one, The Guardian newspaper, the fake one. Oh yeah. Though that was Yeah, I made a, I made like kind of an altered version of it. Further to him, it's like you can find it in the game. It's, it's a newspaper that's behind it. It's ten that this kind of just a, just a story based thing.

00;27;34;29 - 00;27;58;20
Unknown
I'll say it's more of a decoration than anything, but that's also that's so funny in the Dream Group that we did so like, Dash made some awesome little just weird things that she planted around the conference hotel site that we were supposed to recognize. And one of them was like, this fake newspaper of like a picture of Robert Wagner, like pretending to be a convict or something.

00;27;58;20 - 00;28;15;13
Unknown
I don't remember exactly. Like, man, sleep, jail or whatever. And it was a picture of Robert Wagner and like, we all saw it all the whole week, just the newspaper lying around, and we just overlooked it, thinking it was just a regular ass newspaper until one day somebody looked at it like, Wait a second, this is the weirdest newspaper ever.

00;28;15;13 - 00;28;42;14
Unknown
And it was like, really funny. So I just like, really, like, really great for practicing mindfulness. I really looking around to test if things look normal or not, which is essentially like the basic idea of reality check. So I thought she did a great job. I am in this lucid dreaming kind of group, takes her dream and gets this this group, they kind of they kind of collect like a ton of lucid dreaming technology that comes out like over time.

00;28;42;14 - 00;29;04;09
Unknown
It's kind of our where I got a lot of this stuff I've been looking into for Dream recording. A lot of the time when there's something like big faux lucid dreaming technology, it's it's set there and a lot of the time they have like presentations about it. I kind of knew about the conference then. Cool. Yeah, it's funny, you know, people that are into lucid dreaming, we all kind of know each other.

00;29;04;09 - 00;29;28;13
Unknown
It's such a niche thing still for being so cool. Everybody should know about it. But yeah, you know, the community is pretty small. Yeah, it's, it's very small. It's crazy to think about. So speaking of lucid dreaming technology, like, what are your thoughts on all these things coming out? I mean, I see all the time, like people, startups with sort projects of things, you know, they got like wristbands and headbands and rings and all these things that can induce lucid dreams or whatever.

00;29;28;19 - 00;29;52;27
Unknown
What are your thoughts on some of those things? I think that and this might be kind of like a like a heartache thing, but I think that unless it's a like, unless it's a guarantee, which is very hard to pull off, unless it's a guarantee, it probably can't be like techniques and manual induction or initiation a lot of the time it it's more or less like in like an assist.

00;29;52;27 - 00;30;19;13
Unknown
It's not a full on like thing that just replaces techniques because the techniques are the mindset and the mindset is what makes lucid dreams. Yeah, honestly I agree. And I think even like although I would experiment with tech and I think it could help and I'm sure maybe it has some benefits. I've noticed that a lot of startups that are doing technology regarding lucid dreams, they're kind of selling it as like a this is all you need.

00;30;19;13 - 00;30;40;25
Unknown
If you do this, you will get a lucid dream. And I feel like that can be kind of toxic because it doesn't allow people to like, actually learn the foundation of lucid dreaming. Maybe it'll just make them think that they just slap on a wristband and then that's all they need. It seems like people are just making it about the hype more than an actual functional product about lucid dreaming that understands lucid dreaming, you know?

00;30;40;28 - 00;31;02;17
Unknown
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I'm excited to see where technology grows and I'm happy that people are doing things in the field. Do you have any advice for maybe people listening or maybe people that you talk to that are getting started or just anything that comes to heart that you feel like sharing? Here's just what I've learned since I've started teaching and learning.

00;31;02;20 - 00;31;27;26
Unknown
If you're going to learn lucid dreaming, steer clear of conflicting advice that that was a problem. When I was learning, there was a lot of because I learned in like a public area form and there was a lot of conflicting advice, sort of confidence kind of nailed those thoughts down because I feel I genuinely thought that the lucid dreaming community was very conflictive beforehand just because of the stuff I was into.

00;31;27;26 - 00;31;45;05
Unknown
But I kind of opened my mind to how like, but just how open it is, you know? Yeah, that's true. I mean, the internet is crazy. There's so many different, like you said, conflicting advice. I mean, I've noticed things online, even just on my platforms of like people just spreading fear of like, don't do this in a dream.

00;31;45;05 - 00;32;01;22
Unknown
Don't do that. This is bad. This will make you die or whatever. You know, people say all sorts of crazy shit. So what do you think about that? Like, you know, people that say like, Oh, don't talk to your dream characters, that's bad. I think misinformation is inevitable, but it's really the like, it's really the in dream stuff that's bad.

00;32;01;26 - 00;32;32;18
Unknown
It's to don't do blank and elusive dream that damages that damages the experiences that people have. You can do anything and lucid dreams that's just you can do whatever you want and you can't. Like if you say you can't do this, then it just limits the experiences. You know, if I believe some of the stuff I heard online, I if I believe the don't talk to dream characters, if blah, blah, blah, then I probably wouldn't have the persistent, you know, which is my main motivation for lucid dreaming right now.

00;32;32;21 - 00;32;52;23
Unknown
Yeah. And I love talking to dream characters. It's actually one of my favorite things to do. And if you believe things you read online, it's going to play a role in your dream experience. So all that is doing is creating expectations for people, which, as I'm sure you know, plays a huge role in lucid dreaming, makes me pretty happy that one of my most viewed videos is debunking misinformation.

00;32;52;23 - 00;33;11;29
Unknown
One that's good. Yeah, I love to see that because people need to have that balance and not leave everything, you know, dreaming as an experiment. You can do anything you want. And as I'm sure you know, sometimes things don't go the way you want. Like the dream takes its own turn or whatever dream control isn't as strong, but it can happen, you know, it doesn't mean that there's rules.

00;33;12;02 - 00;33;31;10
Unknown
I kind of quit like teaching people personally because I used to teach people personally, you know, and direct messages and surveys and everything. But I kind of quit that because I honestly think it's easier to record it, tell them beforehand. That's why I make editorials. That's true. And then you can just send them the link when you know what they need, you know?

00;33;31;12 - 00;33;49;28
Unknown
Yeah, you got to repurpose content in that way. You'll say the same thing over and over and over. Yeah. And it is it is true. Different people have completely different needs when it comes to lucid dreaming. Yeah. That's why I, you know what I do help people online. I try to take some sort of a diagnostic kind of to figure out where they're at, what they've tried, what works.

00;33;49;28 - 00;34;12;23
Unknown
Because it's hard to give blanket advice for people because lucid dreaming is such a personalized thing. Nowadays. I've been more into lucid dreaming YouTube than lucid dreaming this good because I've been making like tutorials and everything. When you're going back to your persistent realm and your dream space and you're, you know, controlling the dream or whatever, do you ever get an adverse response from the dream?

00;34;12;23 - 00;34;31;20
Unknown
Like it doesn't work. What you're trying to do or you're not able to produce the realm or, you know, like just failed dream control essentially. Every once in a while, my dream control kind of fails when I try to enter the persistent realm, and it mostly just ends up being like the whole lucid dream, kind of being like, like a funk.

00;34;31;21 - 00;34;51;17
Unknown
It's just like it's not worth it to try and go back. I often wake up, put it shortly. Anyways, what's interesting is when I'm in the persistent realm, my lucid dreams on average are like six times as long. Oh wow. Nice. Why do you think that is? Like you feel like you're more like, grounded in the dream and it lasts longer.

00;34;51;17 - 00;35;14;19
Unknown
Like it's not as unstable? I think so. I don't think stability has much to do with it. I think it's just the idea of me in like, in like a state in, like a space where like I have important stuff to do and I have like it's it's active. You know, I have heard there's like this misinformation, right?

00;35;14;19 - 00;35;39;08
Unknown
This you can't have your lucid dreams be too active or they'll get shorter. But when it comes to my persistent realm, it's kind of the opposite. The more intense and active my persistent mom is, the longer it kind of gets, because I feel more, you know, involved in it. You're persistent Room is such like a good space for ideas and inspiration and I love that you have that journey of like bringing the elements of your dream into elements of your waking life.

00;35;39;08 - 00;36;01;23
Unknown
So I think that's super cool and it's very inspiring. Yeah, And honestly, the video is just if it's not useful, then it's just it's just fun, you know? We have good times and yeah, exactly. If anything, it's just a good time. But the main to think you can find me is the way explore YouTube channel and Wade Waypoint Comm kind of links to everything else.

00;36;01;23 - 00;36;18;24
Unknown
Basically everything that I do. It's been a really interesting conversation. I love this topic, like technology and dreams. Like I'm excited to see where the future goes with all of this and like, we're in a perfect position. Like we're so young, we're about to like, you know, watch this grow into like a whole new industry that's never existed before.

00;36;18;26 - 00;36;34;07
Unknown
That's it's very.