EP43: Your Mind is Not Against You, It's Just Misunderstood

Dreams, social media & mental health

Jesse Lyon is a licensed mental health counselor and hypnotherapist. He is at the forefront of therapists who are starting to use dreamwork in their private practice. He is also an influencer who has built a social media following of over 2.5M followers by talking about dream interpretation.

At the IASD (International Association for the Study of Dreams) conference, Jesse gave a wonderful presentation on how to capture an online audience when it comes to dreamwork.

Send him your dream! https://lyonmentalhealth.com/

Resources mentioned in this episode:
Voice Activated Sleep Recorder iOS App
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/prime-sleep-recorder/id968720724

"Human beings are driven by a will to power"
-Frederick Nietzsche

Chapters

• 3:10 What is hypnosis?
• 5:15 How to incorporate dream analysis in a clinical setting
• 8:30 How to help people analyze dreams
• 12:00 How to capture an audience when making content about dreams online
• 23:40 Tips for dream journling with a new baby
• 25:28 Aphantasia
• 40:40 How has religion impacted our views on dreams

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:01
Unknown
Not having an internal monologue and having a Fantasia where most people get caught up in the visual, literal experience of the dream, I can't see it. So the only way that I have to relate to a dream and understand it is through associations. So when you think Apple, perhaps you visualize an apple inside of your head. For me, I can't see Apple.

00:00:20:02 - 00:00:51:23
Unknown
So the only thing I can think inside of my head is apple is a fruit apple pie. Apple treat apple red, apple green dream interpretation is all. And hypnotherapy is all associations. So it's almost like because I don't have the ability to visualize very intensely. My only recourse to logically working through or processing mentally some of these dreams is through association when it comes to how we perceive the world, everybody's a little bit different and this applies to the waking world and the dream world.

00:00:52:03 - 00:01:04:18
Unknown
And in this episode, we cover a lot of topics that really, really fascinate me. Today I'm talking to Jesse Lyon from Lyon Mental Health about dreams, mental health, social media and a little bit of everything in between.

00:01:13:04 - 00:01:34:03
Unknown
Gosh, that could go on for a while. Do you want the history of all my life drama or just the the tldr version? Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure. We'll save that for a later episode. My name is Jesse Lyon. You probably know me or have seen me on Tik Tok at Lyon Mental Health l y on mental health.

00:01:34:05 - 00:01:56:17
Unknown
I've got a following there of two and a half million followers and I talk about dreams and what they mean. And a lot of people, when I'm talking about dreams and what they mean, they will ask, Why should we trust you? How do you know? And so what a lot of people don't actually know because Tick Tock is you know, I show up on your page for 6 seconds, tell you what your dream means, and then I'm back into the ethos again.

00:01:56:17 - 00:02:26:16
Unknown
But I have a very long history of being in the psychology field. I own a practice called Lion Counseling here in central Florida with two offices and seven employees. And so we help people with their trauma. Big outreach to the homeless. And I've been counseling and working in the mental health field for over ten years. And so a huge part of the reason I got into dream interpretation one was because of tick tock and kind of the explosion of tick Tock is a social media platform.

00:02:26:16 - 00:02:57:20
Unknown
But even more than that, I'm a certified clinical hypnotherapist and I also run a school that certifies therapists in the state of Florida to use hypnosis, specifically with trauma. And the hypnosis is a very image based and metaphorical based type of treatment. And so my experience working with complex trauma and helping people process the images that are just stuck in trapped inside of their brain and helping them release them is very akin to what we experience every night when we go to sleep and we dream.

00:02:57:20 - 00:03:43:18
Unknown
So I was helping people kind of understand that, and I guess I struck a chord because people have stuck around and built a community around insight and mental health. So hopefully I went too long. But here I am. I mean, yeah, yeah, the simple version. Let me let me try and think of like just your elevator pitch. Hypnosis is very different than what you probably see on TV and stage magic.

00:03:43:18 - 00:04:04:18
Unknown
It's not it's not that at all. They use hypnosis principles in those stage shows, but it's it's still a show. Like it's it's magic. It's smoke and mirrors, you know, like it's an illusion of mind control. And so the biggest thing that I try and let people know is, one, it's not mind control. What it is, is there's a larger portion of your brain that is unconscious.

00:04:04:20 - 00:04:42:21
Unknown
There's a part of your brain that's controlling your memory, your emotions, your heart beating your stomach digesting your lunch right now. And so that part of your brain is the one that deals with your emotions, with your confidence, with your motivation. And so if you can learn the language to speak directly to the unconscious mind, which is hypnosis, you can have some just dramatic changes and you can break past barriers that other therapists and other types of counseling really struggle to overcome.

00:04:42:23 - 00:05:12:08
Unknown
I have used a pendulum before, so so that you're not totally off, but I use it specifically for trauma. And the reason that it helps is our mind can get into these these ruts. You know, we learn about who we are and we learn about our identity from our experiences in life and from our relationships. And so once we've kind of formed that identity, it can be really hard to change it, you know, maybe you're always keeping quiet and never advocating for yourself in your job.

00:05:12:08 - 00:06:00:19
Unknown
Maybe you're always the one who's the people pleaser in your friend group and you never actually tell your opinions. You learn that part of your character, you learn that part of your identity. And so what hypnosis does is it gets you into a relaxed state and then uses the same language that your emotions do to help see yourself in a new light, to help see this situation in a new avenue so you can start to express and explore those parts of your character that you may be struggling to connect with in any other way.

00:06:00:21 - 00:06:27:01
Unknown
You know, people are always telling me about their dreams, right? So, you know, you come in for therapy and people would just be like, Oh, I had this dream, by the way. And, you know, they'll just kind of share it. So it's kind of a natural part. But I think the biggest way that it's entered into my practice is even before somebody develops the diagnosis of PTSD or some kind of trauma, mental health condition, like in the DSM, the very first indicator are post-traumatic nightmares.

00:06:27:03 - 00:06:54:21
Unknown
So it's kind of like an early screening tool when somebody starts to have these dreams that replay a traumatic event, you can kind of pay attention to that as an indicator this person may be developing PTSD. And so by being aware of these dreams and by addressing them early in the therapeutic process, you can kind of, you know, get a jumpstart on some of these issues and really help them before they become, you know, a life altering life ending type of problem.

00:06:54:23 - 00:07:48:13
Unknown
So that's just kind of my experience. And then, you know, people love telling dreams. You know, when somebody sits down and listens to your dream, there's such a beautiful connection and an empathy that happens there. So it's also just great for validating a human being that they matter, which I think we could use a lot more of. Yeah, it's it's seen as very pseudo.

00:07:48:13 - 00:08:14:19
Unknown
I mean, the very first conversation I typically have with anybody is breaking down the misconceptions and the stigmas against hypnosis and dream work. So I'm okay with that though. Like I think I think there's a huge opportunity there because there's so much value in these topics. I mean, and the and the overarching topic is the unconscious mind, like interfacing with your subconscious unconscious.

00:08:14:21 - 00:08:46:06
Unknown
And so I'm really okay with having those conversations and just being kind and empathetic about talking people through maybe their misunderstandings of this because there's such a huge potential for benefit over here. That one, it's worth having that conversation. It's worth engaging in that dialog. And then too, because nobody else is talking about it, I'm really excited that I get to be on kind of the forefront of this leading edge into a new wave of mental health therapy, psychology and counseling.

00:08:46:08 - 00:09:23:08
Unknown
Because more and more therapists, like you said, are understanding just the incredible value of the unconscious mind and of these tools. And so, you know, being able to be an educator and a teacher in this space, helping people understand how to have more dynamic and more effective therapy, I'm very humbled and I'm very excited about that journey. Yeah, I'm glad you made that correlation.

00:09:23:08 - 00:10:25:12
Unknown
Very similar. Yes. Yes, sure, Sure. Yeah. My time on social media, like my Tik Tok experience, is a little bit like there's a little bit of tongue in cheek to it because of course you have to start a conversation of dream interpretation with only the dreamer knows. Like I got no idea. I've got a long history of psychological experience, psychological study and study into the way that human beings use symbols in both like comparative religion and sociology and cultural studies.

00:10:25:12 - 00:10:50:20
Unknown
Right? So I've got this background of information, but ultimately, the only one who can tell is the dreamer. I can only give hints and clues about new ideas that you might want to think about or discover, because, you know, there's certain patterns to the way that the unconscious mind works. So it's difficult to have that nuanced conversation on TikTok when I get 6 seconds, maybe 15, to communicate a bite of data.

00:10:50:22 - 00:11:08:11
Unknown
So I usually try and put like in the description or in the comments, you know, something about, hey, like these are just suggestions like this is just trying to help you validate and explore your unconscious mind. But yeah, I don't I don't know if that answers the question, but there are some rules. There are some rules to it.

00:11:08:11 - 00:11:32:00
Unknown
And even like in in my Discord server, we have a dream share channel and we have Dreams Share group every week on Wednesday. And one of the biggest rules, like the number one rule, is any time you're stating or talking about a dream interpretation, you have to start it with, If this were my dream, because you got to respect that person's individual connection to those symbols in their life experience.

00:11:32:00 - 00:12:15:22
Unknown
It's a little bit presumptuous and pushy to just say, This is what your dream means. I can tell you if this were my dream or based on my experience, these are some of the things I would think about and then allow that with respect and openness to facilitate their own self-exploration. Journey Yeah, right, right. I mean, it's just like it's just like therapy.

00:12:15:22 - 00:12:29:21
Unknown
Like, if you want to know a bad psychotherapist, like you can tell a bad counselor when they're telling you what to do with your life, like that's a bad counselor. Like they can give you advice or they can even share, like, Hey, I had this experience in my life and this is how I handled it. This is what happened.

00:12:29:23 - 00:13:24:03
Unknown
Adding more data for them. But you can't it's just it's so disrespectful to be like, Hey, I know how to live your life better than you do. Like I have. I have some data that might be valuable for you, but it's your choice. I ain't going to tell you shit to do that. That's for you. Yeah. Yeah. So.

00:13:24:05 - 00:14:23:22
Unknown
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Well, thank you for being being so kind. And I. I think there's a lot of luck and a lot of mistakes that went into creating the platform that I did. I mean, I jumped into Tik Tok at just this golden hour of being a content creator on Tik Tok and I was very consistent in that process.

00:14:23:22 - 00:14:44:09
Unknown
And I would put out I would put out at least three videos a day, Monday through Friday, and sometimes on weekends too. And it was that consistency and just being in this like just this incredible bubble of everyone being on their phones during COVID and Tik Tok being a new social media platform, there was there was some really opportune timing.

00:14:44:09 - 00:15:06:03
Unknown
I mean, providence, serendipity, whatever you want to call it. But but thank you So, so all that to say like, you know, presenting myself on Tik tok, you have to understand like what the platform is for, right? A lot of people make longform content on Tik Tok and it does poorly because they just don't understand the culture of Tik Tok.

00:15:06:03 - 00:15:36:10
Unknown
Like it's very similar to, you know, Twitter or now threads like you're just giving bullet points, you're just giving conversation starters and then the conversation happens in the comments or in the DMS, right? So like my job is not to fully present a well-rounded thought out topic. I mean, it is thought out for me, but my job is to spark conversation on Tik Tok and then the rest of the dialog happens in my Discord server in the comments the right.

00:15:36:10 - 00:16:01:15
Unknown
And so sometimes I'll say things that are a little bit inflammatory on purpose. They're not lies, but they're may be presented in a way that really kind of gets people and like makes them think. And that's that's what I'm really hoping to do. Like, you know, I think a good interview innovator disrupts patterns, right? And so here's somebody has this pattern thinking my dreams are just garbage from my mind while I sleep and I come in and disrupt that pattern.

00:16:01:15 - 00:16:26:06
Unknown
Hey, your dreams are messages. You're like, Oh, shit. I didn't think about it like that. I just assumed they were nonsense. Right? And so I don't need to tell you why. Or the copious amounts of research that shows that dreams directly correlate with our waking life experiences. I just want you to think, and then maybe you'll have a conversation with me and we can go a little bit deeper into that because especially as you get more and more nuanced in the conversation, it does have to be a personal conversation because it's your mind.

00:16:26:06 - 00:16:47:11
Unknown
It's my mind. I can't make these blanket statements about things. So it's a it's a tightrope that you've got to walk a little bit and you have to really keep in mind your audience, what they want and how you care for them. Like I do feel a huge sense of responsibility to those people who follow me in trying to help them through the struggles.

00:16:47:11 - 00:18:00:15
Unknown
I mean, gosh, the comments and the DMS that I get about the terrible things they're going through, like I just want them to feel better. Very much agree. Yeah. Yeah. That dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Like and I think the best way to think about it is like it goes back to nuance, like how nuanced do you want to get?

00:18:00:15 - 00:18:24:22
Unknown
Like I can tell you very generally, if you're having nightmares, there's something going on that you should probably be paying attention to. But like, I mean, think about that statement. If you have nightmares, there's something going on and you pay attention to that. Such a bland, broad statement. It's basically like not saying anything. Right. But then you start to tell me, well, I have nightmares about the traumatic event that I experienced when I was a kid.

00:18:25:00 - 00:18:44:10
Unknown
Okay, Now we're into the PTSD realm. Now we're into the mental health realm, right? Or it's like, okay, I have these dreams. You know, there's nightmares about my teeth falling out. Oh, okay. That gives me a little bit more detail. Teeth falling out is a very typical thing. Either you've got dental problems and you're afraid of your teeth literally falling out, or it's a stress dream.

00:18:44:10 - 00:19:04:15
Unknown
Or you feel like you're not strong enough to overcome the struggles that you're facing in your life. So now what struggles are you facing that are making your teeth fall out in your dream? Well, I don't know. We've got to get more and more nuanced. So it's like it's like a funnel. It's like a cone. Like the more data I get from that individual's brain, the more specific I can be with what's going on inside of your unconscious mind.

00:19:04:15 - 00:19:23:06
Unknown
And that comes from the hypnotherapy side, that comes from the hypnosis conversation. So, you know, when somebody asks, what does it mean to dream about a snake? It's like, well, there's six really good interpretations for what a snake means. But based on the way that you see the snake, based on the way that you felt about the snake, based on the way that the snake was present in the dream, how big was it?

00:19:23:06 - 00:20:48:09
Unknown
How small was it? What color was it? Will give me even more detail to tell you. Okay, This is probably a really good hunch about what's going on inside of your subconscious and how it might be manifesting in your dreams. Yeah. No, she did fucking go figure. Yes. Yes. Well, and I think, you know, there can be a real frustration for content creators online because, you know, you'll get people who do that in the comments section or in the DMS and it's like, It's fine, I totally get it.

00:20:48:09 - 00:21:09:15
Unknown
And like, this probably comes from my experience being a mental health counselor and like understanding that people have their own mental health struggles. Like this person has made choices in their life to not prioritize their dreams, to smoke enough marijuana where they're not having as active a REM sleep cycle as they typically could. And so then they say, Oh, I don't dream.

00:21:09:15 - 00:21:29:14
Unknown
They're not looking for an answer. Like they're looking to You got them in a way that said, Hey, your dreams mean something. And that was an uncomfortable truth for them. And instead of talking about it openly and discussing it, they would much rather be like, No, you're an idiot. Great. Well, you know, that's fine. I can be an idiot.

00:21:29:15 - 00:21:52:03
Unknown
I don't mind. You know, you choose for you. And then there's other situations where people, you know, there's there's a disparity in information. People will send me a DM in the comments. That's just very confusing. And they, they struggle to understand kind of some of the most simple psychological principles or just some of the most simple emotional principles.

00:21:52:03 - 00:22:13:04
Unknown
And that's not because, you know, people are stupid. I think it's easy to say that like I think a lot of us do like, Oh, people are just idiots. And it's like, well, maybe, but I am a person too. Therefore I am also an idiot. So sometimes we have to remember things that may seem normal and obvious to me.

00:22:13:04 - 00:22:33:03
Unknown
With over ten years of experience in the psychology field are probably not, you know, obvious to other people. And it's my responsibility to speak in a language that communicates to the audience that I'm trying to take care of God, not to mention my privilege being white, being assessed gender, male, like in the culture that I grew up in.

00:22:33:03 - 00:22:58:03
Unknown
I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of things that come very naturally and easy to me that definitely are not for others. I mean, I grew up speaking English and like, this is my first language, so it's like, I can only imagine if that wasn't the case, like what obstacles I might face. So I just I caution people, like maybe it's our responsibility to slow down and care for others instead of taking the easy road of saying other people are idiots.

00:22:58:05 - 00:23:55:18
Unknown
That's an easy out and I'm not going to take that easy out. Right? Well, I mean, think about like even just in a grander sense, like social media in general, right? Like social media in general. You take like kobby lame, right? Or Charli D'amelio, who are some of the most popular? I mean, I think I think Kobby Lame has like over 140 million followers on TikTok and Charli D'amelio has something like 100 million around there.

00:23:55:20 - 00:24:30:03
Unknown
They do two things. Neither of them, I mean d'amelio a little bit more than Kobby, but they don't speak in their videos. It's dancing and then it's all non-verbal visual things. And so it's like by being that like broad, by being that high in the funnel of content creation, you can reach 140 million audience. The moment I open my mouth and start speaking in English on my content, I've eliminated so many people who don't speak English as their first language.

00:24:30:03 - 00:24:49:01
Unknown
And then I start talking about dreams. I've eliminated everybody who doesn't give a shit about their dreams. And then I start talking about dream interpretation. I've eliminated all the spiritual community who's like, No, no, no, this guy's a scientist. I believe in the spiritual meaning of dreams. So it's like just the fact that I can participate in this level of the funnel is just beautiful, right?

00:24:49:01 - 00:25:41:15
Unknown
And so, sure, I could be like reading articles from, you know, PubMed, which I have seen some other dream content creators do. But you're getting so far down the funnel that you kind of lose your voice in a way. You know, I would rather make PubMed peer reviewed research conversations on YouTube where people can watch that longer form ten minute content and still engage with a larger audience to care for a greater number of human beings on TikTok.

00:25:41:17 - 00:26:10:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think yeah, I'm talking to a younger Jessie right now of like, Hey, Jess, you know, relax, because sometimes I see like, you know, there's some other content creators who make like, you know, pop psych life hack type psychology videos and they've got like tens of millions of followers. And I'm like, Man, what am I making a mistake that I don't have 10 million.

00:26:10:02 - 00:26:34:13
Unknown
I have two and a half million because it doesn't matter how many millions of followers you have, you still are so critical of yourself. And so, you know, I asked myself that question. I'm like, Jesse, like, you've got such a niche. You know, there's a limit to the amount of people that you can reach in this niche, maximize for the greatest good, but still care for the topic that you're responsible for.

00:26:34:15 - 00:27:21:14
Unknown
I mean, I'd have to start new page different different niche down. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I don't think I don't think anybody would want to see that. No, not from me. So my baby has been in my dreams. He's five months old as of three days ago, super cute. Follow up, follow and watch him on Instagram. He's adorable, but he's been in my dreams two times since.

00:27:21:15 - 00:27:45:05
Unknown
During that five months, I've got a pretty strange sort of dream personality. Well, I have. I have two things that are kind of unique, probably three things that are unique about my brain. Very, very ADHD in the way that I think, which I see as a huge benefit. But it changes the way that I experience my dreams. I also have Fantasia, which means that I don't see visual things inside of my head.

00:27:45:05 - 00:28:02:01
Unknown
Like if I close my eyes and you say, Picture an apple, I can't see it. You know where my wife, on the other hand, can not only see it, but can see the texture can flip, it can rotate, it can see it from all angles. And that's why she's a fantastic dance choreographer. But I can't see anything inside my head.

00:28:02:03 - 00:28:22:13
Unknown
And then three, I also don't have an internal monologue, so most people will have a voice inside their head that narrates their day, or they're talking to themselves inside their head. Shit's quiet in here, man. I'm just going about my day. And so it's kind of like a non-verbal non visual thinking. It's very relational, it's very emotional inside of my head.

00:28:22:13 - 00:28:52:08
Unknown
So anyways, all that to say my dreams tend to be pretty weird. Like if I'm walking through a McDonald's drive through and ordering two cheeseburgers, like saying, What the hell is that? But I did have a couple about about my son when he fell into a pool and started drowning. And then the other one, it was just a beautiful experience, a feeling of him being really excited to see me and us just hugging.

00:28:52:10 - 00:29:24:15
Unknown
Yeah, very, very different. Very different. Yeah. Um, I'm trying to think if I've ever been somebody else, I've always been myself. And it's always been first person. I've never. Which is weird to say though too, because it's like, again, remember, I can't see things inside of my head at least very well. So I don't think my brain's capable of seeing myself in third person.

00:29:24:17 - 00:29:46:18
Unknown
You know what I mean? Like, no, know, it's I've man, I've had just a couple that are like movie scenes. I had one where I was like, in this very liminal abandon and is an abandoned office building. And I was with this detective and like, we were looking for the murderer and there was like this gun at the bottom of a sink.

00:29:46:18 - 00:30:30:16
Unknown
And as this whole thing that was probably the most like, story driven dream I've ever had, and it stuck with me. But that's, that's pretty abnormal for me. Usually they're almost like these just snapshots and not very visual snapshots, very emotional. Like the characters are very exaggerated. It's almost a caricature because I can't see details really well. The details that I do see tend to be very exaggerated.

00:30:30:18 - 00:30:50:06
Unknown
Yeah, Yeah. So I've actually never said this on a podcast before, but I was doing some self reflecting just kind of about like my journey and what I do. People tell me all the time, they're like, Wow, what you do is incredible. I don't know how you do that. And I'm like, I don't it doesn't seem that weird to me.

00:30:50:06 - 00:31:15:10
Unknown
And I was like, Hold on. The FBI dismissed that comment. Let me think about this. Like, what is there about me that may be unique? That lends me to being adept at interpreting people's dreams. And so, you know, I, I think I think it goes to exactly that. Not having an internal monologue and having Fantasia where most people get caught up in the visual, literal experience of the dream, I can't see it.

00:31:15:10 - 00:31:37:15
Unknown
So the only way that I have to relate to a dream and understand it is through associations. So when you think Apple, perhaps you visualize an apple inside of your head. You know, I think we talked like you're pretty visual for me. I can't see Apple. So the only thing I can think inside of my head is apple is a fruit apple pie, apple tree, apple red, apple green.

00:31:37:17 - 00:32:08:01
Unknown
Right. So I'm thinking associations. So dream interpretation is all and hypnotherapy is all associations. So it's almost like because I don't have the ability to visualize very intensely my only recourse to logically working through or processing mentally some of these dreams is through association. So my brain, I think I'm discovering just just by conversations on the Internet, I'm discovering that my brain can only think in this way.

00:32:08:01 - 00:32:43:20
Unknown
And because I have my lifetime of experience thinking in this way, I do kind of naturally have an ability to understand dreams, at least in a way that's different than others. Yeah, yeah. You're the type of person who shows up in my comments all the time and it's like, fuck in paragraphs. Oh my God, God damn, I'll be at there 30 minutes.

00:32:43:20 - 00:33:34:17
Unknown
Just reading this. Yeah, to two great points on that topic. One is the unconscious mind is very simple. It it only speaks in the affirmative and it only speaks in very like eight year old language any time you're interpreting a dream, if you're interpreting it at a level that is too difficult for an eight year old to understand, you've missed it because there's a principle about the unconscious mind that it operates like an eight year old and you only really develop the conscious and critical mind, which is very scientific.

00:33:34:17 - 00:34:02:07
Unknown
It's the prefrontal cortex only. You only fully develop that when you're 25. So if you're trying to speak to a 30 year old and your interpretation is that complex, you've missed the unconscious communication that's happening down here. It needs to be eight year old level of comprehension. That's number one. And then my ADHD brain probably forgot number two, but oh yeah, the number two thing is it will often repeat itself.

00:34:02:07 - 00:34:27:10
Unknown
So I find that people who have very long dreams, it's the same message repeated multiple times. And I've found a pattern that that interpretation like that meaning is usually repeated three times. And it's, it's very consistent that it will have this. You can put it in one sentence and it's this sentence shown three different ways in imagery and metaphor.

00:34:27:12 - 00:34:48:11
Unknown
Yeah. In the same dream, you know, because the scenes will change, you know, you'll be in a house, an event will happen, you'll leave the house, you'll get in a car and an event will happen. But what's interesting about those is if you look at just very basically, you condense the whole dream down. That event that happened in the is emotionally or metaphorically similar to the event that happened in the car.

00:34:48:11 - 00:35:07:11
Unknown
And then you arrive at the car at some other place, maybe outdoors on a mountain and it's again, the same basic metaphor that happens on the mountain too. And so the brain does these things and it's really, really kind of cool. It makes you wonder, like, is my mind trying to hide the meaning from me, or is it trying to give me the meaning?

00:35:07:13 - 00:35:50:12
Unknown
Like it's trying so hard to give me the meaning that it's actually repeating itself? Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. I'll dream. My consistency is like two or three times a week. I'll actually remember my dreams. That's been both easier and more difficult lately because, you know, my five month old wakes me up in the middle of the night or wakes me up in the morning and it's like, Hold on, I hear you screaming, but I have to write my dream down, son.

00:35:50:14 - 00:37:11:15
Unknown
He doesn't understand that he's like, I'm hungry. Feed my belly. You you do? VOICE Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Voice activated is cool. Okay. Okay. Because I was using I was using speech to text and that always fucked it up or. Yeah, yeah, you're probably right. Because, I mean, the longer I wait, the less detail I actually get out of it.

00:37:11:15 - 00:37:20:03
Unknown
And the details are precious for me because it's hard to remember them. What's the, what's the name of the app?

00:37:24:09 - 00:38:29:14
Unknown
Okay, okay. It's not terrible, man. At this point. At this point, I can't get out of the Taco Bell drive thru without spending 20 bucks. So we got much less Starbucks. So don't get me started. Yeah. Ferrell. Ferrell. Yeah, yeah. I ran in. Was pretty fortunate to run into some people. So again, you know I mean there's definitely a lot of hard work in my journey, but I got to give some credit to luck.

00:38:29:16 - 00:38:50:12
Unknown
You know, there are some people I ran into and then I seized those opportunities and some good things came from it. You know, I mean, I think you got to give give credit there. If you're constantly working and really putting in the effort, then you have a better chance of getting lucky and luck finding you. But for me, wow.

00:38:50:12 - 00:39:11:18
Unknown
I mean. Well, let me let me get into the story then. A little bit like I was homeschooled, kindergarten through 12th grade. I'm the oldest of four kids, and my parents made the decision based on some terrible things that happened to them in public school, that homeschooling was going to be the right choice. And I just got the most incredible education that I could have ever hoped for.

00:39:11:18 - 00:39:35:08
Unknown
I mean, my dad is a computer engineer and my mother is an electrical engineer. So just like to very analytical, very intelligent people. And my mother taught me everything. And so we would read books together, like as kids and then grew up in high school. I became a very independent learner because, you know, mom hands you the textbook on physics and she's like, Hey, you got a test on Friday?

00:39:35:10 - 00:39:53:20
Unknown
Best of luck, my friend. I'm like, okay, so, you know, you kind of learn to teach yourself and you learn how to read and you learn how to prioritize information. And so that was that was part of me growing up. And I think it's lended to the way that my brain works right now. So, you know, fast forward there I am in high school.

00:39:53:20 - 00:40:16:06
Unknown
I'm like, you know, 15, 16 years old. And I was really into philosophy. I still really am into philosophy. You know, philosophy speaks in comparison, in logic and thoughts and ideas, which is the way my brain naturally thinks. I don't necessarily really like storybooks because they're so visual that I really can't get a get a hold on them.

00:40:16:08 - 00:40:40:15
Unknown
So anyways, in high school I got really into philosophy and I was reading Friedrich Nietzsche, right? And Nietzsche said that human beings are driven by a will to power as like, Wow, that's cool. And he took up a really big argument with Sigmund Freud. Sigmund Freud said that human beings are driven by a will to live. And then people, you know, very aptly said Freud.

00:40:40:15 - 00:40:55:19
Unknown
That doesn't make any sense. Why do people kill themselves then? You know? And Freud said, Well, there's also a death instinct and things got muddy. I think Nietzsche came up with a better explanation of world of power. So anyways, all that to say, I'm like, okay, got it. Here I am, 16 years old. I got to choose something to do with my life.

00:40:55:19 - 00:41:10:18
Unknown
Like, where are you going to go to college? And like, well, okay, if people are driven by power, like, you know, engineers are driven by the power like of rocket ships and they want to build rocket ships. Economists are driven by the power of money and they want to study that. I'm like, what's the thing? What's the power that fascinates me?

00:41:10:18 - 00:41:36:05
Unknown
And I'm like, well, behind all of these things are human beings are brains inside of human beings. So if I can understand how human beings work and how their brains work, that's the most powerful thing known in the universe to this point. AM Like that would be a life worth living. So I became and from that day forward I decided to be in the field of psychology in some capacity.

00:41:36:07 - 00:41:58:05
Unknown
So I was like, Well, I'll be I'll be a counselor, right? I had experience going to counseling when I was in high school for some anxiety depression stuff, and that was really, really good. And so I knew that in order to be a counselor, you have to have a master's degree. So I started college in 11th grade and I graduated with my bachelor of Arts in Psychology.

00:41:58:07 - 00:42:21:01
Unknown
At 18, I had my bachelor's degree and then at 19 I interviewed and started my master's degree. And they almost didn't let me in because I was too young. I mean, here's a 19 year old saying, I'm going to be a counselor. It's like, boy, you ain't got no life experience, though, son. And so. Right, right. So, you know, I talked to the professor later.

00:42:21:01 - 00:42:36:07
Unknown
He's like, Jesse, we had a long, hard conversation about you in the faculty. And I was like, Well, I really appreciate you let me in. I don't know where my life would be. And so when I got my master's degree in mental health counseling, so I'm a master's of science in counseling, then you got to start your internship.

00:42:36:12 - 00:43:01:07
Unknown
It's a two year, one year in school, two years out of school. So three years total internship process to get a total of 2500 hours of face to face counseling before you can even sit for your licensure exam. So then I sat for my licensure exam, pass the licensure exam. And during that time, like while I was in school, an internship, this girl told me about a class in hypnosis.

00:43:01:09 - 00:43:22:00
Unknown
And I was like, That's wild. That was the only thing I know about hypnosis, is it's like mind control. And like, you know, I was told by the religious community that that's how demons entered your brain was through hypnosis. You're opening yourself up to spiritual interference. And I was like, Well, listen, the best defense is information. So I'm like, I'll go study this thing.

00:43:22:04 - 00:43:45:03
Unknown
Because if it is that dangerous, I should probably fucking know about it, right? Took the class and found out was nothing like that. Transformed my whole counseling experience and I was fortunate enough to have that experience while I was still in grad school. So it influenced my entire career, so much so that I went on to, you know, co-found a school trauma focused hypnotherapy and teach others.

00:43:45:03 - 00:44:18:15
Unknown
So I did that, started my private practice, and it's just been rolling ever since then, you know, doing more and more things, growing the business, helping more and more people looking for business opportunities. And that kind of brings us up to COVID, the, you know, induction into tech talk and here today. Thanks. I was talking about this with my wife.

00:44:18:15 - 00:44:46:17
Unknown
Actually, my birthday was just two days ago and I was talking to my wife about this. I just turned 30. And a lot of the praise that I've received in my life has been has been why you've accomplished so much. It's so young. And the older I get, the more and more I lose the potential for that praise, because at a certain point I will just be a 45 year old guy who's achieved a 45 year old level of things.

00:44:46:19 - 00:45:14:05
Unknown
And so it's like there's a little bit of fear, like it's really nice to be praised that way, but also like shout out to those people who have been praised for being so young and so intelligent. It is tough. As you get older, there's a fear, will I still be important? Will people still care about me? I hope so.

00:45:14:05 - 00:45:36:07
Unknown
I really hope so. I think I think you can be tough like people who are gifted or like on the autism spectrum and therefore survivors or those ADHD like neurodivergent brains like who are able to do things others can't because there's so much value placed on what you're creating and providing. It always kind of makes you second guess yourself like, am I love them?

00:45:36:07 - 00:46:11:14
Unknown
I cared for based on what I've accomplished, or am I a valuable human being just because I'm a human being? And that's the question that I struggle with inside of my head. And I think other people can relate to. Sure, Yeah.

00:46:11:14 - 00:46:49:20
Unknown
Mm. Yeah, yeah. Religion is a tough one. Religion's tough on there's a lot of there's a lot of pain there like, like for people, I mean, gosh, for me to like to be honest, one I always start like, especially my conversation on Tik Tok was saying, Listen, I'm not going to take your religion away from you.

00:46:49:20 - 00:47:12:04
Unknown
I'm not going to take your spirituality away from you or say that it's stupid. I mean, if you're hurting human beings, I'll call out somebody who's hurting other human beings and not being respectful. That's worth being called out. But at the same time, like I'm not a religious leader and I'll never claim to be and so if you're looking for religious direction, go talk with your pastor or shaman or leader or whatever that is.

00:47:12:06 - 00:47:44:14
Unknown
But my personal experience is I think religion can be a really great narrative to start your life. Religion has been used by human beings and we have to give it credit like religion has allowed human beings to form their life and to form their decisions around a narrative that is a really helpful cognitive structure. If we didn't have the grand narrative of religion, we wouldn't know when to plant the crops, we wouldn't know when to harvest, we wouldn't know how little human beings grow into adult human beings.

00:47:44:14 - 00:48:06:15
Unknown
And so these stories are what help guide us and give us direction. Now those stories can become twisted and problematic and cause people to do things that are very harmful to themselves and others. And I definitely don't support that. But I think at its core, the desire and the foundation of having your life based in a grand narrative is is wonderful.

00:48:06:15 - 00:48:30:01
Unknown
I think dreams communicate that grand narrative. And I think I'm really I mean, I know that I'm really passionate about helping people discover that narrative for themselves. So I don't make any claims about astral projection or, you know, different planes of reality. Like, I'm pretty much against that, you know, because I don't think it's a helpful thing to teach people that they're vulnerable when they're sleeping.

00:48:30:01 - 00:48:47:08
Unknown
Like, nobody's going to mess with your brain. There's no demons getting inside your head. There's no, you know, witches on the other side of the continent who are manifesting into your dreams to fuck with you. Like, that's that's baloney. Your dreams. Are you in a wonderful way to express and experience yourself. But at the same time, you know, I'm.

00:48:47:08 - 00:50:32:23
Unknown
I'm spiritual. I wouldn't consider myself religious, not organized. But I think having a grand narrative, I know having a grand narrative is a really helpful thing to organize your life, because spirituality, spiritual quality gives a reason and it gives a story to things that science hasn't discovered yet. And that's really helpful. Sure. Right. It's a lot it's a lot of mindset and a lot of experience and environment.

00:50:32:23 - 00:50:59:08
Unknown
And I mean, I'm not even like I just think I just think because of the progress we've made in psychology, there's better explanations than mindless religion. Like I'm I would even agree with you to a certain level that we do share a dream space. I mean, we're in a very connected world and human beings are just powerfully driven by relationships and so our relationships are going to affect our dreams.

00:50:59:08 - 00:51:35:13
Unknown
And my relationship with this person will affect their dreams and their relationship with me. Will affect my dreams. And so in that sense, because we are social creatures, we're going to share some level of dream space because we also share some level of waking space because of our relationships. I am forever changed because of the people I come in contact with here heretofore, for ergo, my dreams are as well.

00:51:35:14 - 00:52:40:19
Unknown
Exactly. Yeah, I think so too. And I mean, all of my interpretations are based in union death psychology. So yeah, very much, very much a union influence to the things that I do. Sure. Yeah. I think one of the most impactful pieces of research that came out recently is just how by sharing your dreams, you develop empathy in the other person for your story.

00:52:40:19 - 00:53:09:02
Unknown
So like if I'm sitting here and I'm listening to your dream, Ameena, I will develop empathy for you as a human being because I'm listening to your dream story and if you did the same for me, like the research would show that you would develop a level of shared empathy with me because you listen to my story. And so I think just on a basic psychological level, like developing empathy between parent and child, the child the parent is got so crucial.

00:53:09:04 - 00:53:26:14
Unknown
I mean, I think that should go without saying so, like even now, like I mean, he's five months old. He can't say anything. He just giggles and squirms and so he'll wake up in the morning, I'll be like, Good morning. And he gets a big old grin and smiles and kicks his legs. He stretches his little arms out to be like, Good morning.

00:53:26:15 - 00:53:45:05
Unknown
And they'll start talking to me like, What did you dream about? I tell me your dreams, little man. Any minute now, like, Oh, yeah. And then what happened next? I wrap it up and up and up and I'm like, Wow, that's thank you for telling me, buddy. And so it's just like modeling. I want to know what's important to you.

00:53:45:07 - 00:54:17:04
Unknown
And dreams are a part of that. Yeah, I hear you. Makes me cry to you, man. He's the best. He's the best. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, we. My wife laid him down the other day and, like, slid her hand out from underneath him and in a dead sleep, he just started giggling. She thought she woke up and she's like, What is he doing?

00:54:17:04 - 00:54:40:04
Unknown
He's giggling in his sleep. And she realized, Oh, as I slid my hand out from underneath his bottom, when she's changing his diaper, she'll squish his little his little tissue cheeks and go to Quantico to tickle. And he'll giggle and so his brain is remembering squish cheeks, tickle, tickle while he's sleeping because her hand brushed over his bottom.

00:54:40:06 - 00:55:01:03
Unknown
That's insane. And then he'll have he'll wake up in the middle of the night and just like out of a dead sleep, just scream like he's having the worst experience. And so it's like, Oh, my God, his brain is creating new neural connections and he's experiencing fear. Like, you have to develop fear as a human being. And so he's having these little, like, nightmares and so go in and, like, hold him and comfort him.

00:55:01:03 - 00:55:20:22
Unknown
He goes right back to sleep once he knows he's safe. But it's just so cool to see, like what the brain, especially of a child is doing because there's so much activity going on inside of there. I mean, us as adults as well, but just in such a different way because there's so many new neural connections happening inside of a child's brain.

00:55:21:00 - 00:55:50:17
Unknown
And that's that's so cool to just watch and observe like him learning and figuring things out. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tough for me. I asked my wife after the conference. I'm like, Hey, do you lucid dream? Like, she's like, Yeah, almost every time I'm like, Are you serious? She's like, Yeah, like, I'm aware it's a dream.

00:55:50:17 - 00:56:17:23
Unknown
Like almost every time I'm dreaming and I'll do stuff. And it was like, Yeah, I know. Almost, almost every time she says, in at least, you know, at least once a week she's saying she's lucid, dreaming. So I'm like, Wow, that's wild. Not not your boy over here. I got to work real hard at that. Get me, get me squared away, get me right.

00:56:17:23 - 00:56:45:19
Unknown
I love it. I mean, I'm a little hard headed. It might take some time. Yeah. To be patient with me. Oh, love it. I love it. Yeah. Send me your dream line. Mental health dot com. You can send me your dream if you want a full dream interpretation you want to review and just get my $0.02 on it so you can really start that journey for yourself.

00:56:45:21 - 00:57:05:14
Unknown
You know, if you're in the Florida area, you know, come see me for a session and stuff like that. But all of my stuff lie in mental health dot com or the hashtag Lyon Mental Health ly0 and like my last name and you can find me on YouTube TikTok, Instagram, love and Instagram threads these days that's been super fun because that just came out within the week.

00:57:05:14 - 00:57:42:23
Unknown
But yeah, that's the place for me. Come, come, say hey man, I never got Twitter, but I'm loving threads. I had Twitter never made sense to me, but threads. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No threads. I mean, for any of the budding social media content creators out there, Instagram threads is in this golden hour the same way that Tik Tok was probably about three years ago.

00:57:43:01 - 00:58:03:14
Unknown
If you want to grow, the best thing to do is you have to participate in the conversation. And that's what's really good about Instagram threads is you can make a reply to somebody who's uber famous and a huge creator in the space and they will see it and they'll interact with you and then other people will see that interaction and then follow you back.

00:58:03:14 - 00:58:22:06
Unknown
You know, as long as you are showing up to the conversation and providing value into that conversation, there is a huge potential for growth on that platform right now. Now, don't forsake the other platforms like still maintain your other social media stuff, but it's a very different kind of space. It's a very new kind of space. There's a lot of buzz around it right now.

00:58:22:06 - 00:58:58:04
Unknown
And I mean, let's be honest, like we are in the business of human attention and there's a lot of human attention on this platform right now that is social currency. So get on it. Love it, man. You know, we always have a statement like there is a guiding principle inside of my social media, like like a tagline, a moniker, whatever you want to call it.

00:58:58:06 - 00:59:29:11
Unknown
And so just to end, you know, end this conversation, I always tell people, remember, your mind is not against you, it's just misunderstood. And I think that's a wonderful way to orient our thoughts. We can become so combative with ourselves and so self-deprecating and so frustrated with our own brain. And instead of coming at your struggles with a heart and an attitude of frustration and shame, I hope that you show up and meet yourself with a heart of curiosity and gratitude.

00:59:29:13 - 00:59:56:12
Unknown
And so just that. Remember, your mind is not against you. It's just misunderstood as a wonderful journey that can happen on the path to self-discovery. So I hope that helps everyone. I love it. I love it. Maya, My community. I used to have a podcast for a while, but I kind of let it go and started focusing on YouTube instead.

00:59:56:12 - 01:00:05:21
Unknown
But my community has been asking like, What are you to put out a podcast today? What do you have our podcast again? So here it is recorded this just for you guys. Thanks for listening.