EP83: Dreams as Inspiration for Art, Music & Inventions

 Craig Sim Webb is a Speaker/Author/Researcher on dreams, applied psychology and consciousness, as well as a physicist and biomedical inventor. His life path was set in motion three decades ago when he nearly drowned on a rafting trip, and then suddenly began recalling up to 10 dreams/day and having powerful lucid and vision dreams.

This episode talks about the cultural importance of dreams in inspiring scientific and artistic breakthroughs, and includes both scientific and personal anecdotes highlighting dreams' roles in foresight, healing, and creativity. It highlights the artistic and creative inspirations drawn from dreams by musicians, filmmakers, and other artists, including shamanic influences. Craig emphasizes the importance of embracing dreams, especially lucid ones, for gaining insights into life, death, and creativity, and promotes further resources for those interested in dream-driven creativity.

Craig's Links
Book http://DreamsBehindTheMusic.com
Personalized training/counseling
Rainbow Wizard New dream-inspired invention
Treasure in a Bottle - YouTube

Transcript

Amina: [00:00:00] Hey dreamers and oneironauts, I hope you all realize how many life changing and important things in society today originated from dream inspired ideas, such as Google, the sewing machine, periodic table, the model of the atom, theory of relativity, and so much more. And it's no surprise that the term sleep on it comes from being able to find creative solutions to things in our dreams.

In fact, I actually did my master's thesis on lucid dreaming for creative inspiration, and I discovered so many artists that use their dreams to consciously create masterpieces and bring them to life through means of interdimensional creation. The song that you're hearing right now was created by today's guest, who's a talented musician who uses his dreams to help co create his art.

So check out his links, share the episode, and let's get to it. Joining me now is dream author, inventor, and researcher Craig Webb. Craig is also a widely traveled dream and lucidity trainer and dream inspired musical artist who has done lucid dream research at Stanford and [00:01:00] designed peak performance devices distributed worldwide.

His book, The Dreams Behind Music, reveals little known dreams that inspired tremendous success for well over a hundred famous artists. And highlights principles and techniques anyone can use to harvest their own dreams for significant breakthroughs. So I will put all of the links to your books and your websites in the descriptions.

Thanks for joining me. 

Oh, well, much appreciation for having me join the show here. It seems like, uh, it supports, inspires lots of dreamers and that's always good because that's part of my mission here too, in this game, the life school game we call Earth, right? I guess, uh, my, my journey, uh, started, uh, a while ago, uh, as a, as a good little, uh, physicist.

I actually have a degree in physics and now I can say I'm a recovering thinkaholic. It's sort of true because I was stuck in pretty scientific, objective, you know, nuts and bolts, uh, Isaac Newton, how the world works, you know, push, pull, bang, bang, physical. And then, uh, I guess partway through my [00:02:00] degree, I had a very powerful, uh, experience in near drowning.

And I started remembering up to 10 dreams a day, pretty much out of nowhere. I wasn't really against dreaming or wasn't really negative about that, but I just never really looked into it. So that was new, then started having lucid dreams, I guess we'll talk about, but dreams during which I knew I was dreaming in some way.

in real time, you know, not what after I woke up. I was like, Whoa, they didn't tell me about this stuff in physics class. Then clear precognitions, uh, very specific events that would happen, uh, with details, you know, later sometimes days or weeks or months later. I was like, wow, I need to explore this more.

So I guess my degree sort of organically shifted from just physics to including metaphysics and later on creativity, maybe emotional physics, because I was interested in music, so sort of turning some of these feelings and some of the life experiences that we have in the emotional realm. Into creative [00:03:00] art, but using dreams.

So I guess that's been one of the common threads throughout the journey here. Staying connected with what I call the inner net of dreams, like the internet, but it's inside it to us and we get personal access every day. 

Amina: Wow. What really is interesting to me. So you said you had like a near death experience and then that kind of woke up the dreams for you, right?

Is that 

yeah. I sometimes, uh, make a little smile and say I had a powerful near death experience and it actually lasted four years. People say, really, what? And I say, yeah, it's called a degree in physics. Which is sort of true because part of me, that we just spoke about there, maybe the emotional side, maybe the intuitive kind of dream side, wasn't really getting any training.

Uh, I don't know if it was dying off entirely, but it was just kind of going under, uh, in this case, sort of literally almost like underwater. It's a symbol, but literally I was stuck under a raft, whitewater rafting. That was my near near drowning. And, you [00:04:00] know, I had a moment there where I kind of thought, Oh my goodness, this is really it.

I didn't have a chance to get any air or take a breath before I got stuck under the whitewater raft. And, uh, I sort of had this thought, Okay, I guess I'm dying. But it was strangely, accompanied by a strange feeling, sort of peaceful. Like, wow, it's not really scary or freaky to drown. It was just sort of, uh, I guess maybe a little bit present, enjoying.

But with a little surprise, like, okay, I guess this is how it is. And that was all pretty quick, you know, sort of like a moment. And then you kind of cut to next movie scene in my memory, uh, rafting the rest of the day, fairly, I guess, not too waterlogged, fairly, fairly much as normal, except that I had this powerful peace from that moment underwater, I guess, uh, sort of, I guess maybe peace with life and death.

I don't know exactly. Try to analyze it at the time, but I did notice that it was right after that, uh, within a month or two, I started having all the [00:05:00] dreams, lucid dreams, premonitions. So it seems like something open to underwater, like maybe some, uh, you know, the little yin yang symbol. I mean, have you seen?

Yeah. Sort of like, sort of like these paisley shaped little kind of squirrels with a dot on each side. Well, the dot on each side, the black and white, I guess, is kind of like a little portal that you can kind of channel from the, I guess, the black to the white or the white to the black, but it sort of has a little bit of the other in each opposite.

And maybe that's what happened to me under water. Part of me punched through the intuitive dream lucid side, you know, the part that I hadn't really trained or spent too much time with since childhood, and then just came like pretty strong into my life with all the dream recall. And then I later, much later, about seven years later, I chose to study it.

But at the time, it was all new and fresh and kind of intriguing. So like a good little scientist, I noted the data and wrote down my [00:06:00] dreams and lucid dreams and precognitions. And then later, I guess, integrated a little more and started studying and trying to have both worlds of kind of my, I call it my subjective scientist, which I guess many of the listeners are.

Anybody who explores dreams first person's kind of a subjective scientist, a first person scientist. And then my objective scientist at Stanford, I ended up at Stanford pioneering lucid dream research and studying objectively, wow, we can actually have eye signals come from the dreaming body when the person's in a dream.

So they, we can prove their conscious and lots of things is kind of fit with my training up until that point. 

Amina: What do you think is the connection there? What are some ways that dreams can either prepare us for death or assist people around that whole situation of life and death? 

Uh, well, I guess from my experience, one way is, you know, get a product sample.

before you buy the whole thing. Maybe that's a marketing way of [00:07:00] saying, uh, if you can sort of try out or face the fears in a little bit before, I think some of the Tibetan yogi masters encourage this. If you can start to have conscious dreams, and there's other ways too, but if you can start to experience yourself, I like a little bit of your identity, being conscious and knowing yourself.

in a state that's outside the physical, you know, five or depending how you count them, six senses state. Uh, and that would be dreams is a great one. So if you can start to have lucid dreams and know that, okay, the physical body is lying in bed, but here I am in another realm and pretty conscious and traveling around or trying experiments, flying, going through walls, talking to characters.

And when I wake up, it won't have just been like, Oh, that was a dream I had. It'll be a full memory, clear, vivid. Probably you've felt that too, that lucid dreams usually remember more vivid, right? 

Amina: Oh yeah, for sure. It's like a whole conscious experience. 

[00:08:00] Yeah. So if we can kind of get that conscious experience, as you call it, in a realm outside physical, that should help because I recount the story of Gennadius.

Uh, he was, uh, I guess a physician in Carthage, which is part of Greece at the time, old, old Greece anyway. And, uh, he was a physician kind of working with people's health, I guess, as well as he could, but he had a really strong fear of death and dying. And he spoke to, I believe, uh, wrote to St. Augustine and some others.

Hey, how do I solve this problem? Because, you know, I'm Trying to help people, you know, lengthen their life and everything, but I have this tremendous fear of my own and it seems like my work's not coming from a really balanced, peaceful place like I sense it could. And so one thing led to another and he entered into the Dream Healing Temples.

It's a whole, topic we could talk about. But in ancient Greece, they actually had sort of, I don't know, explorational hospitals. Not exactly the perfect use of hospital, but let's say a place where you could go if you wanted to answer big questions about your [00:09:00] health. And in this case, kind of get inside info.

You could have a sleep, you could dream on it. As we say, we'll sleep on it with a little bit more ritual and, Just sort of falling asleep with maybe a question. They had like a little priest there, who was probably kind of like a dream analyst, and when they had a valid dream, that kind of allowed them to go into the deeper chamber and go to the full experience.

Then they would have, uh, lie in that abaton, a special room, and just and have a dream about their health or whatever it was. So Gennady says, well, I don't really have a health problem, but maybe I can answer this fear of death. And he went to the dream healing temples. And I guess the first experience was he had this powerful, like, I guess, very beautiful city that he found himself in, in a dream, like golden spirals, and I guess temples and really beautiful people, he said, and this incredible music playing.

He called it later, the hymn of the blessed and the holy or something. But let's say a super beautiful experience and quite conscious, I'm not sure he was [00:10:00] what we might say lucid, but let's say more vivid than normal. The RPM needle of lucidity is starting to move up a little bit. And he sort of asked, I guess, the temple priest or whoever, Hey, is that good?

Is that, is that good? Can you give me any feedback? Because I don't know if I've lost any fear of death, but it was pretty neat. And the priest said something like, you know, I'm interpreting a little bit. Uh, hey, maybe you should stay for at least another night and have a see if there's more follow up experience.

Otherwise, sometimes these dreams might just be subconscious and you'll see if something comes to you later about it. But he stayed and then I guess the following night, powerful dream, again, the beautiful city and people that he recognized, the beautiful music playing, except there was this powerful youth there and the youth said, Hi, Gennadius, do you remember me?

And, uh, I guess that maybe jarred Genetius's consciousness a little bit. He goes, yeah, I saw you last night in my dream, uh, this crazy [00:11:00] dream, which I guess is just like this city. And he started looking around and I guess gaining awareness and lucidity. He said, oh my gosh, I guess I'm dreaming right now.

And the youth said, and kind of like this interesting Socrates questioning, you know, Yes, you're dreaming, Gennadius. So that's interesting. And where's your physical body? And he said, uh, my physical body. Okay. I guess that's in bed sleeping. And the youth continued said, okay, that's great. And how is your physical body?

Cause that's true. It's in bed. He said, I guess, uh, I guess it's lying there. sort of horizontal. He says, true. And what about the eyes? He says, well, I believe when I sleep most of the time, anyway, my eyes are closed. He said, true, Gennadius, these things are all true. And yet here you are, this beautiful city, me speaking to you, us interacting, this incredible music.

And he says, yeah, wow, it's so vivid and beautiful. He said, Gennadius, I believe you harbor fears of life and maybe this [00:12:00] terrible thing after called death. Don't buy into it too deeply. Realize that as you die, it's much like we are now. And here you are, very conscious, and you know that your body's lying prone, just like it would when you die.

The eyes closed. So harbor the fear no longer. And he kind of sent him with a blast of energy to wake up. And Janidius wrote, uh, I guess it's documented. This is the first documented lucid dream that I know of anyway. And he said, I didn't have the fear of death after that experience no longer because I realized, wow, it's kind of like sleep.

And if you can be conscious in sleep, you can even start to explore what it might be like after death. But I don't have the fear any longer. So there's one little story that can give a hint. So it's kind of an example of if you can get an experience, a first person experience, let's say moving into the other realm outside of life.

then that's a good way to help face the fear of death. 

Amina: Yeah, that's, that's a great story. And I can totally relate because I've had dreams like that, you know, [00:13:00] that have, I've died in my dreams. I've talked to, you know, other beings in my dreams. And how 

is dying? What's your experience like emotionally? 

Amina: Well, in my dream, interestingly enough, it's peaceful.

I was fine. I was still like, uh, I felt alive. I felt like myself. In one of them, I was kind of like a ghost, like watching my family and the funeral and all of that. And the only sadness was for like my loved ones, like, Oh, they're going to miss me. They're sad. I don't want them to be sad, but I felt fine. I was ready to move on.

And like, and then I woke up from that, you know, and sometimes I'll have lucid dreams like that and sometimes they're non lucid, but overall, my dreams just have helped me not be. scared of death at all. 

Okay, well that's good. That's my experience also, you know, like you can actually try the quote unquote dying experience in a lucid dream and sort of see how it goes because your physical body is safe and that's been my experience too.

Sort of safe, interesting, fairly peaceful. You know, one of my, uh, I guess students because [00:14:00] I, I teach students, coach different clients and things, had a powerful dream. Where, uh, he sort of experienced first person, uh, sort of this experience of dying, and then somebody came to him and said, I have a message for, and he said the name of the person, which I won't share because I just try to keep it anonymous.

And he said, tell her I'm okay, and tell her I'm really good, and yes, I was at the funeral, and not to worry, and she's really upset. And so he woke up. I didn't give you the precursor, but that actually one of the people close to him said, uh, wow, I'm so sad and really grieving and was just bawling all throughout the funeral of my husband, which is a pretty normal thing.

I think, you know, the loss. And she said, I just, I'm kind of devastated and I don't know if there's any way to, because she knew that, uh, one of my, the student was a pretty good adept dreamer by that time. She says, is there any way to sort of get some inside info about it? Well, he encouraged her to stay empowered and maybe see if she can dream and connect, but [00:15:00] it's possible that her grief and I guess sadness was a little bit of a veil or blocking there.

So he ended up sort of being a little shamanic and going and he said, wow. And he got the actual, uh, I guess. specific name of this character, which I didn't share. And, uh, he said, is, uh, does there any, does the name so and so connect with you at all? She goes, Oh my gosh, that's the kind of private name that he would tell between me and him.

We'd speak, but nobody, he never told anybody else that that was kind of our little like relationship love name for many years. You said, well, he told me to tell you that. And he said not to worry because I had a powerful dream where he came and he's doing great. He was at the funeral. He saw you there and he said, if you can avoid, or if you can move through, yeah, you don't need to really cry.

It'd be so sad because he's alive and well. So an interesting experience kind of, let's say through a third party, not quite first person, but showing that there's kind of info. I don't know if proof is the best word, but let's say a little hidden piece information of the [00:16:00] person's private love name. that was given to a dreamer who came back and kind of delivered the message in the waking world.

And then, uh, as he, as my student later recounted to me, brought incredible peace for the person who he dreamt for. So maybe a shamanic dream in a way, but sort of getting the info that can help you confirm, Hey, you know what? Existence goes on. Even, uh, you know, if we're here in the physical, we don't have the eyes to see it.

Maybe our dream eyes can open and we can see it. 

Amina: Wow. That's incredible. I'm glad that that was able to bring her some peace. And I hear a lot of stories like this, you know, not just through, um, people that have passed away, but just people getting information from their dreams that later is confirmed to be true or that they didn't know before.

And then they wake up and it's confirmed to be true. And why do you think these things are so difficult to study from a scientific perspective? It's almost like science doesn't have the right tools yet to understand things like this. 

Uh, well, some do. Don't forget there's, uh, like [00:17:00] any discipline, I guess there's people in different realms and Maybe at different stages of their own personal journey, which in this case, that's important.

So science does have a pretty objective approach. Generally, I think some of that started out with Newton, you know, kind of nuts, bolts, laws of physics, hit this particle, and then it bounces the other way at the same speed and force and mass and gravity and such. So that was kind of built into the model of science.

Then Rene Descartes came along and said, I think therefore I am, which kind of gave the. intellect and I guess the logical mind a lot more prominence, although some of the theory for the scientific theory that Descartes brought actually came in the dream, but that's not too known. But I think there's a few things along the path that we started really having an objective view to study and explore as, let's say, an official scientist.

But I say it could be a bit limiting now, especially if we start to look at things like consciousness or quantum physics or lucid dreaming. Because the [00:18:00] experiences can be outside the realm of our physical senses, so much of the equipment or devices or measurements we can make might be a bit limiting.

Depends. There's some pretty cool new technologies that actually allow interesting things. Uh, we can talk about some of those. But if we start to expand our definition of what will be proof, then I guess more objective or more, uh, at least statistical science can show lots of things that, uh, can be, I guess, universally experienced.

And then also if we start to expand our definition of what is the world, you know, is my inner world important? One of the key findings from quantum physics, which I think, uh, it might've been subtly in that movie, Oppenheimer. Did you see that movie, the recent movie? 

Amina: Yeah, I saw it. It was really good. 

Yeah.

So it ends up being that the observer, or let's say in this person, somebody experimenting or experiencing any event, uh, it could be a scientific measurement, but it doesn't have to, it could be anything in their [00:19:00] life too. Ends up being key. in the event. So the observer or the person experiencing it actually affects the event.

And that's shown quite a bit, uh, you know, the electron double slit experiment sort of proves it. Is it a wave or a particle? Well, actually depends on sort of how you're looking at it. If you want to measure if it went through one slit, the electron, then the way that you set up the experiment sort of makes it look like a particle.

If you don't need to necessarily know which slit it went through, then it might look more like a wave. And other things like that. So a lot of things started coming to, okay, so we're pretty important in the mix of what reality is. And if that can be sort of more of your experiential viewpoint, then, you know, you can move into, we create our own reality, and law of attraction, and some of these things that are a little more popular nowadays.

And that's important. Because then, uh, our first person scientists, our subjective scientists, our, our experience ends up being key. So I usually end up saying, even with scientific proof, [00:20:00] you sort of have to be in that realm to trust it. Proof ends up being something that we trust and seems to resonate with what our experience.

So if we trust science, then it's probably usually a pretty good model for trusting things, but there might be some results that don't align with our beliefs or our experience, and we should check those. Just make sure we get our own experience and then we'll have our own proof. You know, if you have a lucid dream, it's full blown and you see a deceased relative, they give you inside info you couldn't know any other way, uh, that's starting to get some proof.

Okay, there's something that may not be measurable by instrument, but seems valid for, for living, at least in this case helpful for your family tree, right? So, I guess expanding science could help. But there's some pretty avant garde scientists and people who use logic and statistics in the mind who've tracked a lot of things, I think found really helpful things for people.

So we probably shouldn't lump all the things into science because of this. It's such a large spectrum now. 

Amina: Yeah, that's true. That makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate that explanation too, because I think, you [00:21:00] know, that's kind of the point of science is to try to understand things that we don't understand and it changes all the time.

Yeah. One thing that I'm really interested in too, is shared dreaming. Um, like if you get two lucid dreamers that plan to meet up and share information in the dream space. So we're going to keep trying and see if we can get more similar results. 

Yeah. And it's interesting, exciting and it motivates us, inspires.

So. That's good. Uh, that's usually where I say, you know, find something that inspires you. You're more likely to first of all, become lucid, but then also remember and try the experiment and get interesting results because motivation that's kind of key for success in the subtle realm of subjective things.

Uh, the visual association is one way that archetypes and remote viewing, which is sort of, uh, sometimes done in dream state, but also can be done in quieter meditative, uh, even just kind of sometimes intuitively tuning We get a thing that's called sort of primaries. It's important to sort of draw or maybe find a picture on Google or [00:22:00] something of the primaries.

In other words, just state the form without adding too much interpretation level or maybe specificity. Or we might get something through auditory, which is another way things can associate. Have you ever had dreams that sort of have word plays or sound like kind of connections with waking life? 

Amina: Yeah, yeah, definitely, like fun little riddles, and I use it to make art sometimes, you know, get inspiration for things and 

Right, well, I had one, uh, there was this little piece of bread, I guess, in a round shape.

I'm talking in fours. primaries here so that I try to keep my remote viewing rules a little sort of spherical almost spherical shape of bread Moving around on the plate almost as if it had two legs. I kind of woke up going. Well, that's an interesting visual and then I had a good laugh because one of my incubations at the time was about a bun dance.

Amina: So cute. 

There was a little bun dancing and it seems like I was having fun with the incubation and also starting to attract it a little bit more. But you [00:23:00] can see the sound association there is pretty accurate to what I was doing. So people can watch visual channels, and then if, uh, at least on the first recording of a dream, or maybe if you're doing meditation, first recording, if you just keep it to the primaries of what was actually sort of, I guess, inner eyes, but the visual perspective, especially if it's like an area or location, just map it out or draw the kind of the primaries for sound.

Just say what was the music, if it was a melody, or what were the actual words, or something. And you'll start to see strong associations that way through primaries. And yeah, you can certainly pick up on physical things, other people, telepathic content, clairvoyant, all kinds of stuff. Lots of great examples if you're interested.

Amina: Yeah, I mean, I would love to hear some examples. Is there anything that like comes to mind? 

This is a fun one, just because it blew my mind in terms of the specificity of it. I teach teleclasses and kind of guide students in some of these things. And I usually [00:24:00] encourage us to have a vision board or intention.

So as a fun thing as a vision board or kind of like a creative visualization image. I had taken the intention for having my music shared more and kind of seeing myself out there and maybe sharing because I really enjoyed performances, like performing music most of all, so kind of on stage. So one of the things I did was I photo, I guess photoshopped the head of a my face onto a musician on stage and kind of the audience in the background.

You can sort of imagine like if somebody was at backstage and took a picture of someone performing on stage, you can see the audience. That's kind of what it was, except I sort of slapped my face over top the guitarist there. It's kind of a fun thing visualizing, hey, performing and creating more music.

Uh, and set that as kind of, let's say, a seed of, hey, let's aim towards those probable futures, if I'm talking in physics language a little bit. And then pretty shortly later, I had a powerful dream, some sort of semi lucid, where there's [00:25:00] this audience, and I kind of know that there's this couple dancing, uh, in a section, I think I can remember, 4 1 G 9 3 3.

That's kind of the name of the section. And, uh, I was kind of like, okay, well, that's interesting. Because what I really wanted to have was a picture like looking out at the audience, but I sort of settled for, for the, the image of my little visualization as the artist on the scene and looking out. But I thought it'd be cool if it was a first person.

And then in the dream, I guess I sort of see her. I somehow kind of know, in a strange way, I put, what do you call that, quotation marks around the word no, because I don't, nobody told me, I just kind of knew it. That was section 401G933. Woke up, I remembered, what is a pretty specific symbol and number, I was like, wow, I better note the data.

As a good little scientist, I took that down. And just out of interest, here's a little technique for dreamers. If you get something specific, maybe a name, or even like a celebrity who appears in [00:26:00] your dream, or. Numbers, sometimes specific words, especially if you don't know what they mean. So not a terrible thing to Google those things, or I guess any search engine, but Google has a little extra power because the whole company was actually inspired directly by a dream.

I don't know if you knew that it's a separate story, but 

Amina: yeah, 

not bad for a three, 2 trillion dream there. 

Amina: Right. 

In this case, I Googled 41G933 and I found, or was it 4G9133, I think, yeah, something very close to that. And there was only, you know, there was a couple of files that were some very vague set of data and stuff, which didn't really connect at all.

But there was one photo. that had that, I guess it was like the photo number, you know, sometimes they appear on your camera with a number in the memory of the camera or whatever. And somebody had just dumped it on, I guess their Flickr or some other account and left the number in. And the 4 1 G 9 3 3 photo was actually first person at the same festival [00:27:00] that I had my vision board picture of, except it was looking out on the audience instead of sort of seeing the artist performing on stage with the audience behind.

So it was very, even more first person, but Olopolousa is actually the festival. I was like, Whoa! Like, out of, I don't know, I'm just imagining here, like, a hundred billion? Probably more than that. However many files there are on internet, my dream knew the exact file number, or file name, that was gonna pull up the, the, uh, The wish that I had for finding the image that was first person looking out on an audience, that's like crazy.

Amina: Wow. So my 

statistics part of me like flipped out. Okay, I got one and a hundred billion or whatever, whatever the file number is, chance of getting it right and I got it. So I sort of realized at that point. Any question, any intention is entirely possible, at least getting the information or the next step towards any future is possible.

Maybe I have to take some more steps to have that first person with that audience and that [00:28:00] festival, but I have played at some other big festivals so that it's always possible as a possible future. And then our intention, ideally with a little bit of excitement, inspiration can help draw in that what we call in physics, a probable future.

And dreams are a great like segue. I sort of see them as like the little, uh, little comments from our GPS. In this case, maybe like a DPS, a dream positioning system instead of a GPS. But the dreams come and they give you a little hint, turn left, uh, and three, you know, uh, three lights from now and, uh, take the roundabout or whatever the, the direction is in this case, it says, uh, check for one G nine, three, three, four G nine, one, three, three on Google and get an image that fits your vision board, maybe that'll help.

And then the steps will come as we sort of state. More and more I've been performing music, and just shortly after that I met all these supervisors for festivals, I guess music supervisors, bookers and things, and all this sort of quote unquote magic, let's say, sort of creating your reality, dream [00:29:00] like kind of things, came in my physical life.

And I believe that's kind of where the seeds of our intentions come, and dreams end up being a pretty good sort of feedback system to help get us there. 

Amina: Wow. That is really inspiring and very mind blowing. Yeah, I definitely agree. Like I think the dreams are kind of a way to take all of that potential energy, so to speak, and turn it into, you know, motion, kinetic energy in the waking life.

So that's really cool. When it comes to your music, what's your process like of like creating dream inspired music? 

Uh, well, maybe I'm fortunate in that it just sort of as a natural thing for me. But I don't think I'm, like, overly fortunate. I've just had interests for a while. So maybe I've developed the neural pathways for dreaming and music.

Those are two of my big passions, obviously. But I did some research, kind of preliminary at this point, to sort of see statistically, Hey, how easy is it for people who don't dream of music to maybe shift that? and had shocking level results. So I think, uh, [00:30:00] six out of seven people on the first, uh, week that they tried to, some of my students tried to, an intention, Hey, I would like to dream music.

I think three out of the seven had never had music before. And the other one's like maybe a number of years before, but just sort of a song that they knew and a long time ago. And they all had it on the, in the first week. And one of them who had never dream music had three songs on the first night. So it was kind of like, Whoa, that's like sort of shocking statistically that it's almost like that easy by just asking or having intention before bed, you know, within days or less nights, you can have a sound or soundtrack.

Even, uh, one of the, uh, I guess, proofreaders for my book, The Dreams Behind the Music said, uh, that's kind of crazy. I don't know if I believe that. I said, okay, well, I don't necessarily say trust it, but at least be a good little very subjective scientist and do an experiment and suggest yourself before sleep.

Hey, you know what? Maybe it's easy. It's natural. Anybody who wants to can dream music. And so the [00:31:00] proofreader did that and they wrote me the next day. Oh my God, it totally worked. I'd never dreamt music and I dreamt it the first night. Except that I was hoping for an original song because that person's a musician too.

And I said, okay, well, what was kind of your, what was the DNA of your request? What was your, your wording for your intention? And the person said, Oh, I just said dream music. And he said, okay, well, that's good. But if you add in original music and maybe see yourself sharing and writing a song or something like that, just before sleep, that'll probably help a little bit, a little more specific input and probably you'll get more specific output, you'll get a dream.

And he did that and said, uh, within three days, he had an original song coming and he was pretty blown away. And these are a little more anecdotal. It's not huge numbers of statistic. The the N is pretty small here. The N of about eight, if you can both, but it does show, it's almost like an on and off button, like a mute, you know, or unmute in this case that if you choose to, maybe there's like a soundtrack or like a music portion or what I start to think of as an [00:32:00] aspect.

It's like an audio aspect to every cymbal, could be melodious, could be a sound, could be some deeper experience that we don't really have a word for, but sort of would feel like a sound or vibration like that. And I believe every cymbal, every energy could have that experience, sort of like inner ears, maybe inner hearing.

And really just, like, unmute to just have the suggestions easy and natural. And that was kind of what probably got me going, knowing that principle. I just said, okay, bring it. Here, uh, I wouldn't mind dreaming more and more and started having songs come. Now, now I can have them as often as I like, pretty much on demand.

And just by themselves, I get a few a week. And a full hard drive of little, little music and song ideas. But you can start to see that, okay, we get lots of emails in life. Some are more important than others. I start to, I guess, gauge, what do my songs feel like? Interest or emotional content or maybe, uh, hit potential, if that's what I'm interested in.

Sometimes it's just for personal transformation or feeling something, sort of a song that [00:33:00] helps me process something. And then you can kind of gauge, hey, which one would I spend time on? Because in physical life, unfortunately, we can't like incubate and then necessarily get an answer and incredibly, you know, produce every dream that we have.

We have to choose a little bit, the stronger ones are the ones that feel like more punch or emotion that applies for me on music. So I get plenty and I've been fortunate. Some of the songs have been shared on many radio stations and some festivals and things. It's true, I come from dreams, just like you do.

And when I die, cause it's gonna happen, please don't cry. The real me will be flying high, up in the sky, or hopefully somewhere like that. Cause life is just one station on the dial. We're only here in school for a while.[00:34:00] 

Uh, that song specifically life is just one station on the dial, uh, probably shows my age a little bit here when the dial was actual radio dial. And if you change stations, you get a different station. Now on the internet, you just type a different, uh, podcast, or you type a different radio station name and you get it, but, uh, that one, no, it came from a really playful state.

I just said, okay, I'm going to like, just. Let's take some of my dream wisdom and just create the song really quick in like an afternoon and threw in lots of awareness and some dream experiences and really quickly produce something. So maybe some of that playfulness came through for you. 

Amina: Yeah, definitely.

It definitely made me happy to listen to. So I enjoyed that. 

Okay. Well, there you have a little example of, I guess, intention, feeling, in this case, a couple of musical dreams that came through as a song. I encourage people to explore that, you know, there's a lot of top, top artists, not that everybody needs to be a top music artist, but everybody could probably afford a little more [00:35:00] creative expression through sound, feeling, singing.

A lot of top artists, like I documented over 200 actually, who've got major hits, uh, you know, Grammy winning level stuff just from dream inspirations. So there's some value and really a way to touch a lot of people if we, if we go that direction. 

Amina: Like you mentioned a bit earlier, some legendary songs and inventions have come from, you know, dreams, which I think is so cool.

Like even the periodic table of the elements was inspired by a dream and Google, like you said, and you yourself have some dream inspired inventions too, right? 

Yes, a number, actually, because I try to practice what I preach here a little bit and act on the dreams that seem to have value or potential anyway.

I'm actually working on one right now, which is a new one, so kind of hot off the press that I can't share too much about, but it could really, uh, bring some, I guess, new awareness to the world of physics and things. One that I recently completed, I guess it started, The Seed. [00:36:00] They sort of call it The Seed because that's an analogy or symbol, but The Seed Dream came in, uh, during COVID, uh, and, uh, that, uh, ended up as a film.

I got a grant from the Canada Council to create a film, a short film, documentary about that dream. And then the dream was actually inspiring really beautiful colors, and I guess rainbow morphs, rainbows, things like that, that came from a dream where somebody gave me a treasure. Deep in this dark cave, I was gifted a treasure, and it ended up just being a bottle.

And I woke up going, okay, I don't have the bottle in my hand when I woke up, and I don't really know how a bottle can be a big treasure. One thing led to another and connected people can check out my short film on YouTube called treasure in a bottle if they can find it. Uh, and edutainer channel, but it sort of shows and tells the dream and ended up as these really beautiful images, which I attached to some music.

Uh, inspired music dreams that I'd produced sort of short [00:37:00] snippets, not too many full songs there, but like maybe five to 30 second music snippets and associated them with these incredible visuals of morph rainbows. Cause the bottle ended up translating and waking life into glasses, bottles, different pieces of transparent material that I placed in front of a prism.

I have a window prism that I'd already had before the dream and it made nice rainbows on the wall. But when I started placing like other glassware and stuff in front of it, it made these incredible morphed rainbows all over the place on different materials, on the walls, on my face, etc. I thought, oh my gosh, this is beautiful.

So almost like a new photographic technique, I started photographing. So I give a little example there of Maybe a few inspired dreams that turned into a film. But also, that led to my invention that you, I think you mentioned about, uh, the Rainbow Wizard. People can actually find it on Amazon if you search Rainbow Wizard.

And it's a simple plate, it's got some kind of advanced physics there and a little film. Uh, I had one [00:38:00] buyer, uh, actually peel the film off. Don't peel the film off the plate, but the plate has a special sort of mirror and film on it that uses a diffraction grating and things in physics that turns simple sunlight direct sunlight into like mind blowing rainbows all over the ceiling and everything.

And the thing I like about it fun, it's fun to actually see a dream turn into a product, you know, and touch other people's lives. That feels good. But I just get this really beautiful sense of like, wow. Awesome. by seeing like rainbows come all over the room and there's something maybe in the deeper subconscious for people.

I mean rainbow is kind of a universal thing around the world but I think people and most of the people who buy it go oh my gosh wow there's this really beautiful kind of wonder like whoa when they see that experience. And perhaps, I don't know, this is a bit of a leap or a guess here, but in advanced Tibetan yogic practice, there is a yogic practice called the Rainbow Body.

Have you heard of that, Amina? 

Amina: Yes, definitely I have. [00:39:00] 

The Rainbow Body of Light, where, uh, you know, I guess a really advanced practitioner, after they die, can, turn their physical body into just sort of colored rainbow light, and that sounds a little bit hard for many of us Westerners, but there's some documented cases that are fairly, you know, tough to prove otherwise.

The body was gone, or very small, and then there's a lot of rainbows were appearing all over the place for a lot of people, so hints to show that maybe it touches our deeper subconscious archetype of who we are at some deep level. I hope so, because at least we get the wonder now, and maybe it inspires our practices later.

Amina: Yeah, that's true. That's so beautiful. And dreams are honestly so inspiring. I mean, I think it's all like connected to our metaphysical abilities that I think we can all strengthen and work on over the course of our lives. Everyone has their own journey with it. 

Have you ever, uh, like, let's say acted on a dream in a way that sort of became, I guess, or even this podcast, was that inspired by a dream?

Something that touched maybe more than one other person? Yeah, [00:40:00] 

Amina: definitely. My podcast was somewhat inspired by a dream because 

I kind of intuited that. 

Amina: Yeah. Yeah. Somewhat because you know, it's funny cause I've always been, I've always loved dreams. I've always been a lucid dreamer and I've always been so fascinated by dreams.

Um, and then, you know, as I kind of went to college and got older, I knew I wanted to start a podcast, but I didn't know about what, for some reason it just didn't. Click for me, like obviously do it about dreams until one day I had a dream. It was like one of my most powerful lucid dreams where I was like listening to myself on a podcast episode, talking about dreams, and then I woke up like, Oh, duh, I should do my podcast about dreams and a lot of other dreams too, that have inspired, like I said earlier, art projects of mine, where I saw something beautiful and I was like, wow, I want to make art out of whatever I saw in my dream and I'm not like the best artist just for fun, you know, 

Touched other people.

So yeah, inside your inner world, like brought somebody else a feeling or wisdom. 

Amina: Yeah. And I've had some really like deep, lucid dreams too, that I [00:41:00] share online. And, you know, people are like, wow, I really love that. You know, they love hearing about it's my dream sometimes. So, um, yeah, you know, I make content about it and people seem to enjoy it.

So I always try to honor my dreams in some way. If it's a good one, I try to either tell somebody about it or make something to honor the dream. And I feel like it keeps that connection going. 

Oh, I totally align with that. I guess maybe I'm a, I'm a practical dreamer here, but I like the, uh, the idea of sort of bringing our inner, let's say gifts, and some, some of them are gifts, and many of them are huge gifts to other people, I guess, uh, one of the ways I encourage people, because a lot of people say, Oh, I don't know what my dream means.

I say, well, that's a good question. You know, maybe, uh, it might be a little, uh, a little Not as large as you could ask as a question. I usually encourage people to ask, not what does it mean, but hey, what does it want? And some types of different questions, like what does my dream want, can bring different experiences, [00:42:00] different insights, different actions, hopefully.

And then it may include what it means, you know, intellectually we understand it, but it may just like birth into, like you said, an artwork, or this amazing podcast, or a rainbow wizard invention, or maybe a song by somebody like Paul McCartney, and then touch many, many people with whatever our inner awareness, gift, or insight was.

Something universal, especially if it touches a lot of people. 

Amina: Yeah, definitely. And you know, I talked to a lot of people that have vivid dreams and nightmares and even premonition dreams. And, you know, some people have a good grip and understanding on him and other people are kind of scared of it or they kind of want to block it out or, you know, they're not ready to embrace it.

So what are your thoughts on that? Like embracing it versus ignoring these strong dreams that we may have? 

Yeah, well that's a good one. Well, first I like to kind of frame it so that, I mean, it sounds like maybe some of the listeners here will be already understanding the whole model, but maybe if somebody's a little [00:43:00] bit new to this, I have an article that's been shared around the world called nightmares?

Question mark, which is important. Lucky you! And then people say, well, I don't want nightmares, so I don't think I'm very lucky. I said, no, but would you put a over the oil light on your car if you And if it started blinking at you? No. Would you just pull the battery from the smoke alarm if, you know, there's like a sniff of smoke in the air and it's bugging you, it'd go, bap, bap, bap, bap?

No. Okay, so, maybe nightmares can be a gift. Yeah, it's not exactly a pleasant gift, but a warning, a warning system like the smoke alarm, like the, The oil light on the car or any other warning. So the subconscious says nightmare, upsetting dream, sometimes maybe a recurring scenario of thoughts or beliefs or something, a trauma from the past.

It could be good to heal and sometimes tuning into something in the future. This is interesting. But, uh, have you ever heard of Francois de Ferdinand de Habsburg? It's kind of a vague name. Not too many people know. [00:44:00] So he was the Archduke of Austria and, uh, his tutor, I guess is one of his guides or mentors.

It was Joseph Lannell, a bishop, and Joseph Lannell had a really powerful upsetting dream where Francois, the Ferdinand led work, was actually shot. And that's obviously really traumatic for a mentor, somebody who's very close to his student. And he sort of had this very specific, clear, vivid. And perhaps because this is a little bit past, he had a little bit more framework from Europe here.

The dreams are pretty important, don't just blow them off, you know. And he actually wrote down the dream and asked people to document and share it and actually send a telegram to his students to say, just be super careful because I saw that you were shot. It turns out that was the event that started the First World War, unfortunately.

So the Bishop, I guess, dreamt here of some terrible event that maybe he couldn't avoid, but something that was hugely terrible that ended up, you know, hurting and I guess killing lots of people and involving lots of countries and stuff. So it's not always [00:45:00] quite as big as that. Even somebody like, uh, in my book, I wrote about Diana Ross was having recurring nightmares.

So that's usually a pretty strong sign. You better act on this, you know, like a TNT dream. I call them TNT means dynamite like TNT, but it also means Today, not tomorrow. Kind of like act now, please. So that this future doesn't come true. Warning, warning. Beep, beep, beep. And, uh, Diana had, uh, I guess a recurring dream while she's in the car with the, the back of, back of a car with the Supremes going to their next concert.

Uh, sort of cats tearing into her and I believe like sort of claws and painful and like, ah, wake up, terrible feeling. Didn't really know about it, but actually, told the dream to the other Supremes in the car and was kind of concerned and I don't know if she told their manager or not but she was upset about it.

In the same breath but without really making the connections he said oh my gosh we're just getting pushed and run around and this concert tour is so harried and we're we're really just stressed all the time it's not enjoyable. I guess [00:46:00] that one thing led to another but she didn't really act on it or maybe They didn't have the wisdom, or maybe it was just a tough business decision to act on it.

But at that next concert, she actually collapsed on stage. First time ever. Just from health, and I guess maybe being overstressed, overtired, or maybe a health problem. But she was really run down, and her dream was a warning, right? So, example from somebody we all know very well, who unfortunately didn't follow it.

It wasn't A life ending dream, but it wiped out the Supremes for a few tour dates and, uh, offers us a bit of a lesson to act when these important warnings come, especially recurring dreams, recurring nightmares. 

Amina: That can be kind of scary for some people. Like if they have this dream, a lot of people are like, how do I know it's a premonition or how do I know if it's my anxiety?

Um, and I noticed that. I've had some premonition dreams too, actually. And sometimes they're very small and random. It's not something like a big event that I can predict or something like that. Um, so I feel like sometimes we're not meant to change it or prevent it or do something about it. Maybe [00:47:00] sometimes it's just showing us, you know, the, the connection of the illusory nature of time.

Um, but yeah, it's kind of hard to tell. How do you know? If it's something that you can prevent, or if it's just something that you're just supposed to be mentally prepared for. 

There's the golden question, right? 

Amina: Yeah, exactly. 

No, perfectly. I believe every person has to really answer that and probably experientially for themself.

Uh, they can certainly ride on our trust that, uh, these things are possible, but inside themself, uh, they probably have to answer that to yourself. Is this true? Is it not? What I usually say first off when I, when I'm coaching people, if it's If whatever decision, if you ask, Hey, what might this dream want?

You know, an intuition or a thought comes, or maybe it's very clear. If the dream is super clear, then just, just follow it. But if it's something that's kind of comes to us and it's not expensive by expensive, I mean, doesn't cost a lot of money or maybe won't risk any relationships or doesn't cost a lot of time.

Just do the thing, you know, if we have a really upsetting dream [00:48:00] and there's, you know, this light at the end of a tunnel and we see all these oranges, there's this orange light, but it's upsetting dream, you know, the feeling is kind of the fear or upset or pain or something. If I had this kind of dream, boy, today I just have some oranges.

Like, I don't know if it's the right action. Like if I ask what the dream wants, but it's not going to hurt anyway. So if it's not an expensive action, just take it. And then if it's more expensive, you know, sometimes there might be a risk, risk, a relationship example. In this case, it wasn't really a nightmare.

It was a positive dream, but I dreamt of, uh, you know, James Cameron, the, uh, the producer, I guess the writer actually of avatar and some of these other films like, uh, Titanic and such I dreamt of him. being interviewed, interviewed by me on, on a green carpet. So I was kind of like, Oh, well, that's weird. You know, it wasn't really upsetting dream, but it definitely drove me with this beautiful feeling.

It's a beautiful feeling. So sort of like, it's almost like, uh, sometimes we get the negative warning dreams. In this case, a really positive potential future. [00:49:00] It's like a calling dream, maybe calling me forward. It's like, oh wow, except that it's really expensive. You know, I'm not going to green carpet interviewing James Cameron.

I didn't even know what a green carpet is, but, uh, I found out. You know, I did a little quick search on Google because obviously I follow dreams. I said, I didn't wake up with 600 for the plane flight, my hand to LA, but I Googled the internet and I saw, oh my gosh, there's a green carpet event in two days in Los Angeles.

Green carpet ends up being for Earth Day because I guess that was when Avatar first came out many years ago. And I was like, wow, that's strange. Like a green carpet's pretty rare and James Cameron's going to be there. I don't know. I know. I guess I got up my confidence and guts. It became a little bit of that fear with the action.

It was more expensive, but I just went for it and bought a plane ticket and I had no idea how I was ever going to get into the event or anything. One thing led to another and ended up on the green carpet interviewing James Cameron. And he later shared about Avatar and [00:50:00] Terminator and a big radio interview with me and a lot of beautiful things came from it.

So it might be a warning dream or it might be a beautiful calling vision of let's say a possible future. Warning dreams are usually, Hey, don't go to this future. Don't come here. Try to avoid this if possible. And other ones might be, this is a bright future. You know, if there's a beautiful feeling there, it's pretty simple.

Uh, aim or take a step at least to aim, to see if you can do this future, you know, create a little piece of artwork. You can send somebody an email. If you just dreamt of them, if you had an invention or a song inspiration, you know, start working a little bit on it. See if the feeling's still good and you get inspired.

And then that's why I think that we, we steer towards better futures and away from the unpleasant ones. 

Amina: That's awesome. I mean, it's good to hear because, you know, I often dream of some futures that I want to bring into my reality that I know will happen someday, which, you know, starting to little by little, one of them being this big farm that I find myself on and I'm [00:51:00] doing like festivals, dream Meditation retreats, growing vegetables and all this good stuff.

Um, lovely. Yeah, it's beautiful. And, you know, slowly I'm, there's 

a little like box on that dream I'm putting, I'm clicking like, or maybe I'm clicking the heart, you know, full love. 

Amina: Thank you. Thank you, . Yeah. And, and you, you'll be hearing more from me because when I have that, you know, you can perform on the festival and all that.

Oh, amazing. Yeah. Um, and I actually did meet up with a farm back in 2022. I threw a music festival at one of my friend's farms and it turned out. so great. And it was like, so healing. And I did like a dream workshop there. So that kind of felt like the beginning manifestation of my dream. Do you know what Woodstock was 

on the farm?

Amina: Yeah, exactly. People, it was like 

Dreamstock or Heartstock or something. 

Amina: Yeah, people were comparing it to Woodstock because it was just such a healing and like for me. Free event. It was like a small, private music festival, but we had people perform and everything. We rented a stage. It was great. It was really fun.[00:52:00] 

We made the news actually, like the newspaper. Yeah. So I felt really good about that. And now I'm thinking about it like, Oh, as the years passed, it feels like it's in the past now, but it's like, I know that it's just the beginning, like eventually I'll be able to do that again. 

Well, the feeling's not past, right?

Amina: Oh, not at all. I think about it regularly. It's 

super clear. I mean, it's just, so it can show in other events, uh, if not that specific one, but maybe the intention out there for many listeners, or if you have like a little Patreon page or something, people who cheer it on might help financially. Who knows?

Amina: Yeah, definitely. It'll happen. And I'm still doing smaller versions of it. Like Dream retreats and workshops. Like I rented an Airbnb with a friend last year and we did a little dream, uh, incubation weekend and it was really fun. People enjoyed it. So I like doing events like that. So yeah, you know, it's just, it's inspiring, I think.

And, um, You know, I'm kind of on a similar mission like you, of just spreading the awareness of this amazing dream [00:53:00] world that we spend so much time in. 

Yeah, the potential of it, right? 

Amina: Yeah. 

In my, uh, let's say more expanded physics model here, I like to say that there's lots of possible futures. We could talk about quantum.

Physics and things, but let's just kind of say the many worlds paradigm of there's lots of probable and possible futures. There's some improbable ones that are really beautiful. And then there's some very probable ones that aren't very beautiful. And we can sort of steer there a little better as we tap the dreams.

Let's say you can get inside info, how to avoid an unpleasant future. Would you want that? Well, duh. If you can get inside info about how to steer towards a really beautiful, bright future, that's lots of brings you and lots of people joy. Well, duh, of course. Yeah. And so that's one of the ways that I motivate people to kind of connect with the probable reality of dreams.

Maybe before something becomes physical, we see it in our inner senses. And then as we start to act on it, you know, this very simple thing, we just call it an action, kind of a thought that becomes, [00:54:00] you know, a thought in motion through our muscles. We call somebody or we create the artwork or whatever happens, we start a podcast like Amino.

Then, uh, that kind of inner inspiration touches many people and it can be super beautiful if the original feeling was beauty or joy or wonder or something. Why not share it? Happiness I think was born to sort of be a communal thing, right? 

Amina: Yeah, definitely. And I've noticed too, like when you have a lucid dream and you're fully experiencing whatever beautiful, fantastical experience, it's like visualization.

Times 10. And we already know that visualizing things can kind of help you get better at it and bring it into your reality. So it's like when I'm lucid in a dream and I'm like experiencing what I want to create, it just feels so real. I'm already happy. I'm experiencing it. I'm there. So it feels like I'm already halfway there.

At the dream stock farm, all these amazing performers, speakers, audiences swarming in. I like it. I'm on board. 

Amina: Thanks. Yeah, exactly. And every time I dream about it, it just gets more and [00:55:00] more realistic. I add more things to it. It's like a, my little Sims world that I build on every time. 

Uh, well, I can relate to that cause that's kind of my, uh, middle name that came from a dream.

It's Sim. 

Amina: Oh, wow. That's so funny. I love that. 

Yeah. Yeah. So, I integrate the sims, but the sims can become like a shared reality. Really, that's the only difference. It's either personal inside something or a physical shared, you know, we perceive it with our senses. And just remember, like, action is kind of the key place.

I guess I'm using a little of my invented physics language, but where an inner event comes across the perceptual event horizon. It's a fancy, maybe borrowed scientific phrase of an inner dream being acted on comes to an event that touches other people's life. You know, they get to perceive it in their physical life.

So I encourage all the listeners, explore a little bit here and there, start acting and asking what the dreams want and trying out and see small steps. Maybe at first, if you've never done it, and then bigger steps, maybe a little bit more risk as you get to really beautiful [00:56:00] visions that could touch lots of people positively.

Amina: That's amazing. And another thing I wanted to ask you too, is like when it comes to lucid dreaming and out of body experiences, remote viewing, what do you think is like the differences between all of these? I know that it's like the way I see it, you know, we have these altered states of consciousness, um, and there's this.

Definitely different levels to it. Like, I think some dreams are just your inner subconscious. And then some dreams we go to deeper levels of this, you know, astral world. How do you kind of classify that? 

Uh, well, sometimes, uh, I don't classify it just for the freedom of not kind of labeling it too much, which doesn't make that wrong, but just kind of keep an open mind helps me keep an open mind and say that these things and the words we use to describe them could be quite different for other people.

And I don't want to just take a word that might have its own limits. Uh, if the word really inspires me, well, then I'll probably take the word. But if it's something that I'm not sure about that word, or maybe I bring my, ask for an own experience. So the words end up being thought structures that can kind of [00:57:00] offer frameworks and then end up as beliefs that either help or limit us.

So keep that in mind. That's pretty key first. So if we use something like, for example, OBE, out of body experience, or sometimes they say OOBE, out of body. Uh, well. What body are we out of? And who's out of it? And out is where compared to what else? So we can certainly break down a little bit of words.

Maybe some lucid dreams overlap with OBEs, maybe they don't, maybe their word, the way they use it is lucid dreams, same as what I call lucid. So the words end up being very key in how we describe it. But yeah, there's certain flavors. But I like to think of it as certain inner senses, of which, uh, I believe, uh, the Seth material, if people want to check out James Roberts, Jane Roberts books, uh, she talks about, I guess, the material that she delivers from an invisible being.

Seth actually talks about the inner senses, which I like that idea a lot. So like [00:58:00] we have physical senses here, maybe five, six, depending how you count them. If you count all the 210 different types of sensors on the skin, we actually have like 220 plus senses. So we probably have more than we even count, but let's say you count the six big ones, touch, sight, hearing.

Well, we have equivalence probably on the inner plane and dreams and meditation and other levels. And according to Seth's material and my experience and other students experience that I've had, we have other senses that aren't really as easily describable in physical life. And I would say as those inner senses are more turned on, like different ones, or even just like more clear, we start to learn how to use the senses, like people learn how to use their hearing better, you know, maybe, uh, they have like perfect pitch, or maybe they can kind of guess chord progressions or things like that, or maybe somebody gets really good at touch, they can start to sense braille, you know, especially if their eyes aren't working as well.

Or, you [00:59:00] know, we can develop senses. Well, we can develop inner senses in the same way. And then I believe some of these experiences just end up being like different inner senses and different levels of clarity. Uh, so that's kind of a general framework, but then, you know, as we can start to play with time, time's a big one.

Uh, I like this idea I came across that Precognition, clairvoyance, and telepathy are actually the same in our sense. Uh, at first I thought, well, that can't be true because they're quite different things. But then I kind of looked at the timeline of things, sort of the, if we talk about like day to day life here, one step after another linear time.

Okay, they look pretty different. To see a place at a distance, or to know somebody else's thoughts, or to have a premonition of an event, that's quite different stuff. But above or removed from time, they do start to align, and from that place you could say, Well, something that I knew somebody else's thoughts, I'll only find out about in the future, uh, probably if I'm going to check with them or something.

So that ends up being [01:00:00] tied with precognition, and the clairvoyant place, let's say I'm a remote viewer and I saw some, Location far away that I later came and proved was actually what I saw. 'cause I drew it, et cetera. Sort of gave myself proof. Well, it's also shifted in time that there was a way to tune into the future.

'cause at the future when I proved it, I saw the place. So we can start to draw some of the links between these different names and words and then what we get our own personal model. I like to say that over obs overlap. Probably there's a little bit more experience of the physical world, or at least our model, our mental schema of the physical world for out of body than just like a dream.

Some people say remote viewing. That's probably a little bit more overlapping with the physical world. Sometimes astral is a word people use. So is that the same thing? Well, astral is probably a little less connected depending how people use it with physical, but maybe it's connected with deeper emotional realms.

or realms of like experiences of deeper inner senses. We don't really have ways to talk about a deep dark space where we have a feeling [01:01:00] that we just never experienced before or it was a dark space, but it felt beautiful, you know, like, whoa, that's a weird oxymoron. I thought I'd normally be scared in a deep dark place.

I'd say, uh, there's probably lots of room for expansion on that, but just keep in mind inner senses are going to be one of the key ways to explore, experiment, and maybe have a fairly free framework that allows you to experiment and experience it. 

Amina: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, and you explained it in a very good way because you don't have to get stuck on labeling things or trying to classify your experience because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

And everybody can label it in different ways, you know, or make your own criteria for what you consider a lucid dream versus an OBE or whatever. So yeah, that's, that's a really good way to put it. 

And yet in physical life, we also do need words or we need some numbers or something to kind of communicate with others, right?

Scientific results, or when we talk to a friend about a dream, we need to use certain words, always lucid. to kind of get [01:02:00] them to listen a little more or get them to try it themselves. So I don't think the labels are terrible, but kind of keep them loose. That's what I would say. Keep a loose id. Yeah, 

Amina: exactly.

Exactly. Because yeah, I think the lines can definitely blur with, with some of those definitions and we don't really fully understand. have you ever 

had one of these, uh, spaces, dreams where you're in kind of a deep, empty from symbol, dark, darkness, blackness, void, whatever we call it. 

Amina: Yeah, I have. I've been in this void.

Um, it's quite common, actually. Yeah, and then sometimes a dream will form from there, or sometimes I'll just be in this nothingness. It's really weird. 

But is the nothingness, or how would you, I don't want to even, like, predict anything. What feelings would you describe the nothingness with, or what experiences other than the work?

Amina: So I don't even have a body, I'm just kind of like an observer of this space, but I'm still like conscious and then, you know, sometimes I'll just hang out there and wait for the dream to [01:03:00] start. 

Okay. So that's cool. So sort of like maybe a between dream space. Uh, but it doesn't sound like there's any great fear, at least.

Amina: No, no, never that. Um, and you know, I'm quite like, I've had a lot of sleep paralysis and liminal types of dream experiences just throughout my life. So I've kind of like, I'm, I've gotten used to them. I'm not scared anymore. And like, just this morning I had like sleep paralysis and I rolled out of my body and then I was like shooting through this tunnel, like a rollercoaster, but it was kind of fun.

I was actually excited about it. The only reason I woke up was because I thought I heard. Somebody calling my name, but it was, it was just a hallucination. They weren't actually calling my name. So it gets kind of confusing about what's real and what's not. Yeah, exactly. 

Nice. Well, even, uh, like, uh, if I don't, if you don't mind me offering a little announcer or talking about your experience, I love that you sort of turned something which could be freaky, you know, paralysis or.

Which probably isn't the most beautiful word, you know, we're paralyzed. [01:04:00] Ah, I don't want that. But you turn the experience into sort of a springboard for, I guess in this case, lucidity or an inner experience that was kind of exhilarating. So maybe that's the way to reframe words that could be limiting or scary or something that would block us in a way that's opening, empowering and stuff too.

So just watch for limiting kinds of words. Otherwise labels are great. 

Amina: Yeah, it's true because yeah, it's a paralysis of my physical body, but I've been practicing because every time I can maybe feel my dream body a little bit. Um, and then today was the first time where I actually managed to roll out sideways and then as soon as I separated from my body, I was like shot into this like tunnel and it was fun because I was prepared.

I've been trying to do this, but I've been scared like years ago when I first started having this dream. paralysis, quote unquote experience. But now I encourage people, like, don't try to wake yourself up. Just say, see what happens. Like you're safe. You're in your body. It's normal, you know? So I'm trying to kind of get people to embrace it [01:05:00] if they can.

Good. It sort of ends up being where we put our attention, right? Now, it doesn't mean there's things to be wary of and, you know, sort of step wisely a couple steps forward and sort of be organic in our, in our growth and our transformation, not like three steps forward and 20 steps back kind of model of freaking herself out too much, but it ends up being where we put our attention in this case.

Let's say you had experience where body was. Not really easy to move or fully paralyzed. And you put your attention on, Oh, neat. This is the thing I wanted to try. Instead of like somebody might've gone, Oh my God, I'm frozen. I'm am I dying or all kinds of other interpretations that lead to fear and maybe limits.

Amina: Yeah, exactly. So what is this shadow phenomenon? Why is it important and how does that relate to just everything we've been talking about? 

Uh, well, I like the the word I think borrowing from Carl Jung here, a well known psychologist and dream worker, who coined the phrase, or at least made it very popular, about the shadow.

And as we're going to talk about [01:06:00] it today, you know, it's not the old radio show of 50 to 60 years ago, it was called Only the Shadow Knows. But it has a nice little ring of truth in there, the shadow knows. It knows parts of us that are not fully alive. Because Carl Jung said, uh, the shadow can be sort of our repressed elements or maybe past traumas or things we're scared of.

Or maybe even just, not those, but just say future developments. like potential ways that we could grow that we haven't really accepted yet. So kind of, let's say, our subconscious either has places to heal or things that could be positive if we shine the light there. And the symbolism of the shadow light is kind of consciousness.

So it's good to add awareness at least of the feelings and maybe add lucidity if we want to face a fear or turn a scary nightmare into a positive dream or something. So light and consciousness can be a pretty positive thing. So that's kind of what the shadow is. And then I like specific examples of, let's say, Paul Tolai.

You might know Paul Tolai, one of the researchers from [01:07:00] Europe and lucid dreams. And he said, I had a powerful dream of this tiger. Like I think it might've been a recurring dream too, but being chased by a tiger and very scary waking up, freaked out. And then he, uh, because he's exploring and writing and teaching, I guess, researching lucid dreaming.

So then I became lucid and turned around, sort of said to tiger, Hey, stay your ground or something. And he said, who are you? He kind of, he went into the interpretation model of dreaming and wanted some intellectual understanding about maybe what the tiger represented in his shadow. And the tiger instantly transformed into his father, which is interesting.

So now he probably had a little bit more insight where these feelings, where the scary menace kind of came from. And then his father in the dream said, I'm your father and now I'm going to tell you what to do and do it like this. And I guess a little discussion ensued. I don't remember the exact writing of what he shared, but he said he sort of found a way to come to peace with his father and not just blindly follow, but yet not fight [01:08:00] against either.

Some kind of interdependent ground, I guess. and woke up and felt really great about it. And we might say, if we were going to analyze it, oh, it sounds like he might have integrated part of his shadow, part of his unconscious fears, or maybe pain from the past with his dad, some tough emotional dynamics, and probably brought some of the emotional energy back to his life that was, you know, caught in those dynamics.

Maybe, and usually from that kind of, let's say, composted emotional energy, New growth can come and amazing new creative insights can come. Now, I don't know for sure exactly what came from that nightmare later that he integrated, but I can say for like example, James Cameron, who I interviewed, I've spoken to, he said, yeah, well, my, my first movie was kind of like that.

It was Terminator. You've heard of that movie or you've seen it, right? The Terminator. He said, I had a really super scary nightmare, almost like pure dread, where I saw this chrome skeletal figure kind of rising out of a fire and just [01:09:00] like almost beyond whatever the symbolism of a chrome skeleton would look like, but just this pure fear dread.

And he woke up and said, you know, hey great You know, anything that's archetypal or as strong a feeling as that could be a great idea for a movie, a scary movie. Uh, and so he turned it into a sci fi, I guess, movie, and the main character of the movie is actually on the poster of the dream. You know, if you look at the movie poster, you'll see a chrome skeleton and a fire.

And, uh, that was And, uh, from our purpose, he kind of took the shadow element, we're not sure what it was, but maybe some of his anger and challenge and not really having gone too much anywhere with his film career yet, not having owned all his inner power. It became a huge breakouts movie and sort of launched his career in a big way.

Also, I guess, touched a lot of people with some archetypes of whatever. They might be afraid of and could face in their lives and things like that too. And through, through the movie, I guess, transformation, if you watch the movie, you get a little bit of the character arc of what the main character gets to.

So he turned it into art. And I think [01:10:00] that's a great way of dealing with the shadow. Cause it often holds a gift. They can become a creative. So birth later, if we integrate it, face our fear, sort of go through the trauma, rehearse it, or sometimes just kind of laugh it off or whatever, you know, if you're afraid of dying, like Gennadius, just go and have a lucid dream.

He didn't really have to face death exactly, but he realized that it was a false fear and he didn't need to be afraid of it, but it's different to sign of think it and then to experience it. So, in this case, he did it, he lived it, and now he continues to live being a great movie projector, uh, producer who's, I guess, acted on many of his dreams now.

Amina: Yeah, I have a, a page on my website of movies and books and things that are dream related, so I'll definitely be adding all the things you mentioned on there, including your own books as well. 

Oh, thanks for that. Well, uh, yeah, The Dreams Behind the Music, actually, uh, my main book there, documents 200 top, 200 plus top artists, and in a future edition, I think by the end of next year, it'll have another 50 stories of some top, [01:11:00] pretty well known artists, some of the newer pop artists, Ed Sheeran's being one, and a lot of other pretty big names that we know, Blake Shelton, who actually dreamt a lot of their biggest hits, or sometimes their whole career direction, a bit like James Cameron, his breakout movie.

Uh, so I kind of take popular language that people know, you know, Oh, I know, uh, let's say Taylor Swift, or I know, uh, Brahms, if you like compositions from, let's say, uh, some of the more classical music, or I know this guy called Mozart, and we see that they've used dreams. And they've used them in very positive ways.

It touched a lot of people and brought them success. Then, uh, we can start to act on them. That's kind of the motivation behind the book. Get inspired and popular language and maybe, uh, isolate, which I do the, the universal techniques and principles. Throughout the book, sort of little highlighted quotes that people can use in their own life, even if you're not necessarily a musician, like a doctor or a mom or any other, great.

Just to kind of honor a little shout out to moms, you know, [01:12:00] one of the top offices, quote unquote offices, one of the greatest, I guess, careers, according to India culture, is being a mom. We're sort of shaping the lives of young souls here, our children. So just honor everybody is kind of one of the little hidden messages in my comment there.

But these principles and techniques can apply to everybody in every part of their lives. So I kind of highlight the universals from other people's experiences, top 200 artists. 

Amina: Awesome. I just added your book to my Amazon cart. I'm really excited about it. Oh, great. 

Thanks. 

Amina: Yeah. Well, 

I hope it inspires some musical dreams.

Are you going to keep me posted? 

Amina: Oh, of course. Yeah. I'm not a musician, so I won't be able to create them. But if I do have a 

musical friend, right? 

Amina: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I could sing them the melody and they can make it. 

Just like the Tuvan shamans of Siberia. You'll see there's a whole chapter there about different shamans, different paths worldwide, where they use sound, music, and sort of especially dream music and sounds.

And the Tuvan shamans, which is kind of [01:13:00] Siberia, Russia, around there, they actually will dream a melody, just like you said. They don't necessarily have any understanding, kind of mental level, what it's about, what it means, or they just kind of got the archetypal sound, or whatever it was, and they'll sort of like hum it, sing it, or maybe if they play music, play it further.

Their client, which is probably another member of the community or the tribe, if they're really an indigenous group. And then they see kind of like sort of catharsis happen. There's some kind of special transformation, more than just like if they tried to counsel or talk to or, you know, there's sort of like this transformative, alchemical power in the actual melody.

And they might just get the person to hum it or sing it. Or they might just even just sing it for them. Uh, you know, some of the artists I talked about obviously produce songs and their, their hits went worldwide, but it doesn't have to, uh, there's a musical shaman, I would say, who's probably the top sort of shaman of getting inside sounds and energy out.

One of the top few, anyway, I kind of use the phrase musical shaman, even though they're a pretty [01:14:00] big star. Uh, have you ever heard of Joseph Shabalala? 

Amina: No, I have not. 

Yeah. And a lot of people, especially, uh, younger folks nowadays don't know the name. A few more people know the group, Lady Smith Black Mambazo.

Dear Joseph, actually he was on the same big TV documentary as me, maybe 30 years ago on Discovery Channel, but Dear Joseph dreamt of incredible things and a choir of children who taught him all kinds of melodies and dances that he taught to his group members who couldn't read or write music, didn't really know how to dance for this very special kind of music called Isiketa Maya, Isiketa Maya, forgive my pronunciation.

Uh, which we don't know too much in the West, but we do know somebody who's kind of integrated more into popular music as he went to Africa and found this amazing shamanic musical lucid dreamer. And, uh, sort of included some of the music in Graceland, that's Paul Simon's album, which includes Lady Smith, Black Mambazo, and he sort of brought them to prominence.

So if you like the music Graceland, and if you [01:15:00] start to listen in the background, some interesting sounds that's, uh, trained, uh, Joseph Shabalala, the person who brought that band, who I think have like nine to 10 Grammy nominations and a few wins for sort of world music, came very directly from quite a number of dreams.

So very channeled info. 

Amina: Well, I will definitely check that out. I have a lot of interesting things to check out. So thank you for that. 

And 

Amina: I will put all your links, but if you want to tell people like what you have going on, what you got to share your website, I know you do a lot of things. So, you know, plug yourself right there.

Oh, thanks. Well, uh, I always like to, to share about that. Just really, it's sometimes the best way for people who are interested that I can serve them. That's kind of the main mission here. It's not just some big sales marketing. Don't care about it. Think, uh, if you're inspired with some of the colors you talked about, check out rainbow wizard on Amazon.

Uh, if you want some things that. Don't have any cost related. Check out Treasure in a Bottle on my YouTube channel there. Uh, if you like the, the [01:16:00] book that Amina mentioned, it's pretty inexpensive, but you can get lots of great principles, stories, and some fun things to tell. Even cocktail parties, you know, stories of Beatles two biggest hits that came from dreams and lots of other cool things.

Uh, that's The Dreams Behind the Music. You can go right to the website dreamsbehindthemusic. com. And then people who are interested in exploring, learning this stuff, want to go deeper, I have been able to fortunately mentor many, many people worldwide, including lots of top high profile figures and lots of simpler folks like myself or moms or, uh, you know, students or this and that check out, uh, apply dreaming.

It talks about teleclasses I offer, and right now, these days, I'm doing more private training sessions, which is a lot more personal, powerful, and ends up being a little bit easier to organize while I'm working on a few other projects. So there's there, if you want to go on Spotify, you can hear some of my dream inspired music.

Polymers is a really fun one. I don't think I sent you that one. I mean, if you like, I can send you a link. It's my joke, environmental, sort of playful song. Sort of very clearly [01:17:00] inspired by a dream, all about plastics and chemicals and the environment. And, uh, I do have many, like I said, on my hard drive, lots of song inspirations, music that could be songs.

And then this couple came to me and they said, Hey, could you really bring out that amazing song? Because it could touch a lot of people more if you actually produced and shared it. And I said, okay, great. Which one? And then I woke up. I was like, Oh no, I didn't really, but I realized, remember their names were Polly and Muriel.

And I said, Oh, that must be my song, Polymers. And so I produced that song and it went there. So you can check that out on Spotify and stuff and lots of other great free links online. So hopefully that inspired and entertained some folks. And I wish everybody, uh, if they're lucky, happy nightmares. 

Amina: Yes.

Thank you so much. I'll be checking out the rest of your music for sure. And yeah, that wraps up the podcast episode for today. Thank you for your just great enthusiasm and your wonderful energy. 

Okay. You're very [01:18:00] welcome. And cheers. I'd love to hear from any listeners who are touched or inspired.