The Dream World

EP93: Another Day, Another Dream

• Amina • Season 4 • Episode 1

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Amina: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the dream world podcast. I really cannot believe I'm going into my fifth year of podcasting. It's been such a beautiful journey. I don't plan on stopping anytime soon. So if you've been waiting a while for my next episode, just know that I see you. I love you and appreciate you. And I have a lot of cool things coming for you.

So you keep me motivated. You really do. Sadly, I lost a few files recently and there was a dip in motivation coming with that. But what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. So let's get back to talking about dreams. I have a couple cool dreamy updates for you before we get into today's episode. As you know, I am a member of the International Association for the Study of Dreams, and they always have different conferences.

This year it is completely online, and while I do love the in person conferences, this makes it more accessible to a lot of people, so hopefully we'll see some new faces there. You can apply to host a workshop or presentation, or even just come as a viewer. There's going to be some amazing speakers and dream experts there.

They also have a lot of amazing [00:01:00] resources. They have this journal published by the American Psychological Association. It has all of the latest research regarding dreams and consciousness. They also have a year long dream studies group program, where you can learn about different traditions regarding dreams, different research, different creative methods of working with dreams.

I love how they have all the perspectives in there, so you can check that out. They also have So you can find people in your area that love talking about dreams and researching them. It's more than just a dream. It's more than just in your head. And subjective experience is getting way more valuable in modern day materialist world.

And in modern day neuroscience even. So I love to be a part of that paradigm shift. This year for me is all about quality. I want to do more group episodes, get different perspectives. I want to get into more profound topics and dive deeper into these rabbit holes. And let's just keep the conversation going guys, talking about dreams, science, spirituality, consciousness, bringing everybody together.

Today's episode is with the lovely young lady, Molly, who I met at last [00:02:00] year's IASD conference. We connected on our common interest of teaching dream work to children as a part of basic creative learning. 

Molly: Thanks Amina. So I'm Molly and I actually, I live in Egypt right now and I work a lot with dreams and also the water.

And I think I will say more about that after, but how I got into dreaming specifically, I had a bit of a strange experience in COVID time. I was working as a scuba diving instructor and I ended up taking a job for one month in the Philippines on a boat. And then the lockdown happened. So I actually got stuck on this boat for four months.

Thanks. And there were just four people. Um, we didn't have internet. It was a bit of a crazy time. We didn't know what was going on around us in the outside world. And there was a lot of fear. But in this time, I started to have, I think for the first time in my life, since when I was younger, when I was a kid, I started to have really powerful dreams, like dreams where I would meet family and friends.

And, and afterwards, when I had the network again, [00:03:00] I would like talk to these people and realize, that kind of the things that I saw or what they spoke were actually happening. So I became fascinated by this dimension of, of all of this knowledge that comes from through the dream, even not just about their own unconscious, but like other people, friends and people who are close.

So yeah, I became like very fascinated by dreams after this time. 

Amina: That's cool. I noticed a lot of people started to have vivid dreams around COVID. I wonder why. Did you have any dreams regarding like the water, being on the boat? Is that like a common dream theme for you? 

Molly: I don't remember about when I was on the boat, but I do have dreams a lot about water.

And also at the time when I was on the boat, the only other thing I was doing was free diving. And now I, over the years I found a really big connection with this because I also run trips now dreaming on boats and free diving with different people. And there's something about being close to the water and being in the water that I, what is my [00:04:00] estimation is that it opens up this unconscious, everything is flowing.

And then when you dream, you start to have really powerful, interesting dreams. It's almost like all of the unconscious stuff has been already turned around and then it comes in the nighttime. So for me, this was fascinating. And that's a lot of what I'm doing now. Um, like creating experiences where for a week we, we both do practices in the water and then in the nighttime, go on dream journeys or do dream groups in the mornings and putting these two elements together.

Amina: Wow, that's awesome. That's so powerful and important, I think. And I noticed for myself, like when I travel different places, like, you know, different geographic locations have an impact on my dreams. And I know the ocean is just such a powerful entity itself. So I can only imagine, you know, how that impacts you, you know, in your dream space.

So that's really cool. What types of like. When you're doing these retreats and trips, what types of like techniques or workshops do you do with people? 

Molly: So actually this fascinated me because I [00:05:00] was curious about this connection between water and dreams. And then I researched a little bit and I found out that the first, they were kind of hospitals, but healing centers in ancient Greece and ancient Egypt were actually dream temples where they would go and ask to different gods or oracles to to help them with what they needed to heal through the dreams.

And in the daytimes, when they were in these places, they were told to bathe in the water and it was something about being in the water all of the day and in the nighttime looking through the dreams. So I was really curious about how this is also in the history. In the daytimes, we were practiced. I'm not sure if you've, if you've heard of it before, but it's contact improvisation dance, but in the water.

So basically it's a group of us and we're dancing, but in the water in these, they have hot natural springs there. So it'd be 36 degrees and we go through different explorations of, for example, when session might be on. how to support the other and how to receive support. And then we [00:06:00] practice this through movements, but it also brings a lot of, uh, reflections, like how you do this in the daily life.

So this is happening in the daytimes. And then in the evening times, there will be a drum, a drum dream journey. And also, um, and every morning we will meet to share our dreams from the night before and do some dream role play. So it's kind of just combining these elements into a week of going into the unconscious.

So when I'm just back here, uh, in Egypt, I do, one thing I do is dreaming and painting workshops. So we meet and we all share in the group about one of our dreams. And it's beautiful to also hear the reflections from the other five or so people. And then we sit and we paint for two hours, the dream, and afterwards we reflect back on, uh, what we now feel differently about the dream since we've done the painting, or is there anything we would like to change in the painting, which would then affect our, uh, [00:07:00] way or emotions when we think about the dream.

So this is one thing. I had a, I had a project a few years ago when, because after this whole thing in COVID time and being stuck on the boat, it brought me to study Jungian psychology. I did a master's in Jungian psychology. So when I was working with this for my thesis, I decided to do a project in schools here in, in Dahab, in Egypt.

So there was one particular school that I worked with. It was a group of six kids and we started to meet every week, uh, twice a week. And the whole kind of idea around this was, can we use dream groups in schools with teenagers who are going through this change from being kids to being adolescents as a way to talk about emotions and things they were going through and things that were changing and just to open up to each other and provide this kind of connection.

It was based a little bit also on the rites of passage that people go through in different cultures and how that's missing in. in Western kind of society. So that was a [00:08:00] really interesting 

Amina: year. Yeah, that's fascinating. What a great topic for your thesis. And so what have you found in your experience?

Like what benefits do we get from like, you know, learning DreamWork at such a young age? And how is this helpful to children? 

Molly: What stood out to me was It was difficult for the kids in the beginning to really open up about their feelings. And I remember being the same age and nobody wants to talk about how they feel or it's kind of taboo subject.

But when they were talking about their dream selves, It was a lot easier because it was almost like they were telling a story. So they didn't directly connect that this was from them, but after they would tell what happened in the dream and how did they feel in the dream, of course, it was channeling the same things that they feel in the life, but it was somehow a lot easier for them to share it.

So it made the group start to understand a lot about each other's fears around being left out of friendship groups, around not knowing what they want [00:09:00] to do with their life. And these were some of the topics that came up. Also with the boys, a lot of anger towards the fathers that was suddenly happening.

And then we could open up that conversation. So it was beautiful how it brought these topics, which weren't normally spoken about, between the group of friends or classmates, and because it was coming from a dream, it was like a really easy starting point to just open this subject. 

Amina: Yeah, that's great.

That's so therapeutic and it's really good for, you know, The young minds that are going to be the adults of the country soon. So that's, that's really important, I think. And that's cool. You said your master's was in Jungian psychology. What is that about? And you know, what type of academic importance did they put on dreams in general, do you find that it's more talked about 

Molly: so Jungian psychology?

It's. It was psychology, but it's based on basically all of the theories of Carl Jung. And there was a topic on dreams, but there were topics on many [00:10:00] different things. So one was dreams and then also the archetypes. And then a very interesting one for me was kind of the psychology of politics and how Everything that happens in the world is not just from the individual person who is in power, but a projection that the public are like putting onto that person.

So in a way, it kind of all connected with the reality of a dream, how everything inside the dream is a projection of the self. And then also when we look at the bigger world, like all of the different dynamics going on in a way or projections of the collective energy of the people. And so it was, It was very interesting theme to study or course to study.

Amina: I definitely appreciate Carl Jung for all the foundations he set for, you know, thinking of psychology in that way. What about like your personal practice? Um, do you like keep a dream journal? Um, is there anything specifically that you do to like stay in touch with your dreams? 

Molly: Yeah, I guess it was. So after COVID time or [00:11:00] during COVID and then since I always keep a dream journal now, when I started to research about dreams, I found different tips and tricks.

So I was putting a dream stone into my pillow. And this is also what I told to the kids. It was amazing because they came to the, to the first session and they said, well, we don't remember our dreams. And I said, okay, well, I'm going to give you three things to do. And I'm sure by next session, you will remember.

And none of them would believe me. But the first one was to put the dream stone under their pillow, and the second one was to say a dream kind of mantra before sleeping, just inviting that they will in the morning remember their dreams, and they will write them down. And the third was to put a piece of writing on paper on the wall in front of them, so as soon as they wake up, they would see it, and it would say, what did you dream?

So this were kind of three techniques that I taught to them. And when they came back the next session, they were also excited, like, wow, miss, we remembered our dreams and really surprised. But this is also what I was doing after I got off the boat. I [00:12:00] was like researching a little bit more how to become more lucid in the dreams.

So I tried these three things and I was using the dream journal and writing down parts of the dreams, which were like, which seems strange, which like a dream sign, something that makes you know that it's a dream, or it should make you know that it's a dream. But in the dream, I didn't realize. And after doing this for a few months, then I started to have kind of twice a week lucid dreams.

And this journey became even more fascinating because I could ask things and ask questions and explore in the dream in a lucid way. So that was kind of how my personal practice started. It's 

Amina: so rewarding to hear about the kids getting excited about their dreams and starting to have results. That's awesome.

And you mentioned a stone. Is it a certain specific type of stone or is it more so the intention behind the stone? 

Molly: So traditionally, it is a moonstone, and I guess that's because the moon has always been associated with the [00:13:00] unconscious, and the unconscious is associated with the dreams, but generally it can be any stone, and this is also what I told the kids, like, that is the one, officially, but you can put any stone, because the whole idea is, It's like when you tie a knot in a handkerchief to, uh, to remember something.

So you put the dream stone under the pillow and then consciously you're remembering that you want to remember the dreams. 

Amina: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Intention goes a long way for sure. And I love that you're a lucid dreamer too. What do you like to do when you're lucid? Do you have like a plan or do you usually just go with it?

Molly: It depends, like sometimes when I have specific decisions to make in the life, um, actually a few times when I've started dating somebody, I ask to my dream, like, what would this be like in the future? And it gives me a little kind of insight or exploration. But then other times when I've become lucid, I think a lot of the time when I become lucid, I ask myself, do I want to make a plan?

But I always have quite interesting dreams anyway, and I realize that I want to know what [00:14:00] happens naturally. Like that's more exciting than being in control. So I stay lucid, but I'm just seeing what unfolds. It's quite interesting for me, this thing about lucid dreams and controlling them. And sometimes I feel like we have to spend all of the daytime like managing and creating what we want to do.

So sometimes it's nice. In the nighttime to not be in control. 

Amina: Yeah, that's true. I love going with it sometimes because, you know, then I don't necessarily put on my ego and conscious thoughts onto the dream and I can just get the natural messages that the dream has for me. So it's definitely a mix of both for me as well.

Do you have any like advice for people getting started with dream work, whether it be young people or, you know, adults, anybody? 

Molly: Um, I think my advice would be just to always, like every morning, pick up the dream journal and write something, even if you think that you don't remember anything. Because a lot of the time when I first started, or even now when [00:15:00] I've had like not such a good night's sleep, I've been woken up by an alarm and I think I don't remember anything.

And I'm kind of talking it out to myself, out loud, and I can't find anything. But as soon as I start to write it down, it's like more comes and it just comes into the mind. And then these pieces start to become bigger and to make more sense. So I think always, even if it's just like the very smallest detail, as soon as you start to write, then new things are coming.

Amina: Yeah, that's true. That's a really good advice. Opening up that dialogue with the subconscious. And you do hypnotherapy too, right? How did you get into that? 

Molly: After I studied this master's in psychology, I felt that I wanted to do psychotherapy and just like many different brackets of psychotherapy in the UK, which is where I went to study it.

So the, one of them was hypnotherapy. hypnopsychotherapy. And it just sounded very interesting in terms of basically what it is. It's not like how people would imagine from the past and you become completely hypnotized [00:16:00] and you can, someone can get you to do whatever they want. But it's more like putting someone in this yoga nidra state or this state of, of being really relaxed before starting the therapy.

So the idea is that, You're then as the therapist communicating with the person's unconscious mind rather than the conscious mind and the conscious is less guarded. So any of these like actual answers which come deeper are able to come out. Whereas if you're doing like, um, talking therapy without the hypnosis, perhaps the conscious is a bit more guarded and doesn't want to really share the deeper roots of, of different problems or feelings.

So that's kind of how I came across the hypnosis. Just the 

Amina: last thing I wanted to ask you, like a dream of yours that, you know, is one of your favorites or that really impacted you that you can share. 

Molly: Sure, I can share two because I can't choose my favorite one. Okay, perfect. So I had one [00:17:00] dream, it was in the ocean, actually, and I was, I was kind of a mermaid, not really, but I felt like this a bit because I could breathe underwater.

So I was swimming, moving under the water, and I remember hearing this sound, it was like a ticking sound. like a clock or a, I didn't know where it was coming from. So I was trying to search for this sound. And as I went, there were a few different creatures who came past me. One was this turtle, like this huge, majestic turtle.

And on his shell, he had all of these different symbols. Which, uh, I didn't know what they were, but I could only describe them to look like, um, numbers from like the Mayan calendar, or some kind of Aztec ancient symbols. So he swam past, and I, he didn't speak, but I felt like he was telling me something, like he was giving me a lot of wisdom.

in this meeting. And then when I, later in the dream, I finally found this ticking and it was coming from inside of an egg. It was this giant golden egg. At some [00:18:00] point, this is kind of when the dream ended. But again, I felt like I got a lot of energy from this egg. And I woke up just with this feeling like something had shifted and something had changed.

And now that I reflect, I think that was about, two or three years ago when I had that dream, but it stays so strong in my mind. Now that I think about it, I feel like it was my Saturn return dream. I feel like after this, then became like this, um, courage and strength to do these kinds of workshops and to, to do work with people.

And yeah, it was like a very transformational energy that came from the dream. Uh, and the second dream that I would love to share, I, I have it a lot. It's a recurring dream. And basically I'm going through some landscape where there is, um, mountains and different pathways. And I choose which pathway to take.

And also the weather is very strange. It's, it goes from like snowy, uh, a lot of snow in the mountains to all of a sudden very warm meadow garden that's sitting in the mountains. [00:19:00] And when I go to this space, I have this feeling of like being completely at home, completely safe, like this place. Like it's a sanctuary for, uh, for women actually because I never saw any men there.

So normally I would go and it would be by myself. But then there were different times in my life where friends or family were going through difficult times. For example, once, uh, when my mom was going through a divorce and I had this dream and I took my mom there to this. to this garden. And then other times I took other people there and it just felt so healing and beautiful to kind of take people to this place where everything was going to be okay and, and they were going to feel healed.

It also stuck with me to be a very powerful dream. 

Amina: Wow, yeah, I love that. I love dreaming of people that we know and like, you know, sending them energy and things. Do you have any thoughts on, like, if you have that sort of dream, the people that are in your dream, do you think they feel results of that [00:20:00] dream in waking life?

Like, do you think there's a collective element of dreaming? 

Molly: Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm not sure. I mean, the one time it happened with, uh, with a girl that I hadn't known that long, we'd just known each other for a week. We were working together on a boat and her friend had passed away one year before, so she was quite upset on this.

on this day, of course. And then I had this dream and I took her there. And when I woke up the next morning, I told her and she wasn't someone I knew that well, but I, I just shared about this dream and it really touched her. She felt like really safe in the place where she was working on this boat because somebody had had this kind of dream about her.

So I, it, it doesn't exactly connect with like this collective. energy, but there was something just about communicating it to her that, that helped with this warmth and creating a safe space, if that makes sense. 

Amina: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that's just as powerful, you know, like people don't necessarily normalize, you know, telling people when you dream of them and stuff like that, or telling people [00:21:00] about your dreams.

Um, and sometimes I've shared, you know, some of my favorite dreams and people will be like, wow, like that really helped me or like I needed to hear that or, you know, whatever messages was in the dream for me can sometimes be helpful to other people as well. So yeah, I think that's equally as cool and powerful.

Molly: Yeah, I think so. And sometimes we, sometimes I do workshops where we're like traveling into, through music, through sound, traveling into the dream of somebody else with that person, and then seeing kind of active imagination, but into somebody else's dream. And this I also find really fascinating, like the different perspectives that people can have.

on someone else's dream and then share it to them. 

Amina: Even if they see different things in the dream that, you know, wasn't necessarily in the original dreamer's dream, um, it could still be helpful to the group, you know, for whatever they're going through in that moment, I think. DreamWorks has a really awesome way of just bringing people together in that way.

I really appreciate you just coming on here and chatting about your experiences a little bit. 

Molly: No, thank you so much for inviting me. It's really nice to, [00:22:00] to share and to think that some people might hear about all of these different ways there are to enter into the unconscious and to explore.