EP96: Dreams, Spirit, and Self

In this podcast episode, Meriana, an IFS therapist, discusses her lifelong passion for lucid dreaming, which began in childhood. She shares insights into the etheric body, dream energy, and the common experiences of lucidity in dreams. We both recollect vivid dream experiences, including interactions with spirit guides and mythical beings, and reflect on the profound lessons these dreams impart. The discussion touches on the integration of psychedelic experiences, the importance of asking for divine help, and how dreams can serve as portals to different dimensions, aiding in spiritual growth and self-understanding.

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Transcript

Meriana: [00:00:00] Thank you Amina for inviting me in the podcast. And yes, it is been a passion of mine. I mean, more and more fun, you know, like a lot of my, I've been lucid dreaming since I was a kid. Then as well as now I do a lot of flying. So like the more I have been developing my own spiritual practice and some of the concepts around spirituality, around what is spirit, the soul, it has been refining and changing and also with, uh, different awareness approaching, like, I know that, uh, I was reading somewhere that most people, when they become lucid in a dream, that the most common two things that people do is I reply.

Which is also one of my number ones, or have sex. So, there is, I've almost [00:01:00] noticed that sometimes in lucid dreams, almost there is a certain amount of dream energy. I call it dream energy, but it's some kind of particular magical energy, almost, that I associate with coming to a certain frequency. Which also, given the nature of the, like, is that the etheric body?

I would think it's the etheric body, or I call it sometimes spirit when it's in a lucid dream. But I know that for a lot of people also that leads to an extra, nah, should I say a turn on or something like that. But I know that it's some of the most common ones between kind of. Checking out the abilities of the etheric body or the spirit body to fly and to divide the laws of physics of gravity and a lot of things here that we associate with human and earth, as well as to interact in different ways.

And sexual [00:02:00] energy is being kind of one of the raw forms of life energy itself. Like when, I guess when increasing one's energy, the increasing of the prana also for a lot of people also in, in, for a lot of my dreams can go into this kind of called the horny factor. And I know of a lot of people who also use the ability to manifest in dreams while feeling the extra turn on in the body.

It can be very easy to get, I don't want to say sidetracked, because it's also a very valid experiences with lots of beauty there as well into sexual experiences. It comes to memory to a roommate of mine that I used to live with in San Francisco in a community house many years ago, for example, is one of the most respectful, and I don't know, most people would call him a total gentleman, who then, if he would [00:03:00] get lucid in a dream, that was his secret time, his secret place where he knew that he was kind of the master of the dream, and he was telling me that he would go to the next best beautiful woman and go like, you, Give me a blowjob because he knew that he can, which makes me think that in a lot of the times there is this kind of what also even Buddhist talk, let's talk about the different desires and drives that we can be governed by, including in dreams.

And on the other hand, also it, I see it as a soul stage in a way where the soul can be different aspects of itself. So I've been approaching lucid dreaming recently very much as um, extra. Enhanced and extra obvious way to communicate with the soul with the spirit realms and is a way of going into the spirit realms.

I remember also, I mean, one of my stepdaughters right now is very, [00:04:00] very active lucid dreamer and as she was talking about going to spirit school before. And of course, back in the first years, it's also much more transparent when a lot of children have the double vision of being able to see the material things here, the way we adults perceive them, as well as a lot of what later becomes invisible.

Or for some people, it stays invisible, which is not so invisible in the dream world. So our abilities to create and to remember some of the natural abilities of the soul is also what's been very interesting to me. I'm thinking right now one of the, of a lucid dream from a long time ago. I mean, it was a dream, but I was in something like a spirit school, for example, and the teacher was this black being.

It was elegant, but. I mean, that was funny, it was like a shape, the form was black, and the class was [00:05:00] in how to not use our abilities, which also made me to think that the soul having so many abilities in a way, like being part of the divine, if we think of God as those divine forces that can know everything and do anything.

I have heard before that some souls, even before incarnation, have to go to a certain amount of classes. go through stimulated environments to even be able to come here and function as a individualized, as a unit of the whole in a body. It's almost like as an individual that since the body is in a way, physicalized version of an inner world that is also as complex as the universe within in some ways, given all the nerve endings and so on, but also within the context of outer world with other individual souls having a human [00:06:00] experience and all the different laws and ways.

I mean, here we can call them laws of physics and so on that apply to us to a certain world. Which don't apply anymore once this frequency gets changed. And of course, I mean, to me it happens now more and more often since I've been much more actively thinking about it. But there is a particular sense in certain dreams when the frequency changes and suddenly you know, that now, now you know you're dreaming.

And even that also not always meaning that you can use your abilities. But it's been a really interesting kind of way of, uh, it's almost like a reminder system in lucid dreams about all the abilities that the soul has, including. I know that sometimes they call it Shapeshifters and so on, but I've been using it kind of as a way to try to understand the entity of the soul.

I don't [00:07:00] don't know whether to call it entity, but that aspect of us that is beyond only one fixed gender and one fixed age, and one fixed race in one fixed. You know what I mean? That is a part of this life, energy and intelligence that in a way is the creative force within all. And how to also utilize the, how would you call it?

The non local nature of consciousness. 

Amina: Yeah, that's really interesting. And I love dreams for that. I, I've had a lot of dream experiences and also heard a lot of people where they're having this like school type of dream experiences where they're learning to strengthen these abilities and work on them, especially in a lucid dream.

And I also love what you said about also just sometimes, sometimes we need to just. You know, ground ourselves in being human and that's a part of the experience as well, but dreams can definitely help us grow in that way. And for me [00:08:00] and my personal lucidity, I've also experienced, you know, sometimes getting, like you said, sidetracked with sexual urges and stuff.

I think that's normal in everybody's journey, but I've found that when I ignore that and, you know, do other things in the lucid dream, I have a lot more fun and it's a lot more rewarding for me. So I definitely have gotten over that as well. 

Meriana: Yeah, I have gotten, gotten to a middle ground where sometimes I decide to ignore it and sometimes it's going with what is, but it helps in a lucid dream to remember almost that it's a different space that I'm not cheating on anybody when things happen there.

I had to even make extra agreements with my husband because that was disturbing me sometimes becoming lucid in the dream and some things had just happened that will be against our agreements in this life, in this world. It will be overcome by guilt before really realizing it's a pain. And yeah, it was almost like, I'm realizing also almost the importance about [00:09:00] the different veils of forgetting.

There is sometimes as if we're like tuning into the lives of different aspects of our soul. I mean, different, I don't want to say incarnations, but. Since they say the soul is beyond gender, and in some of my dreams, I have been again, male, female, I've been an older woman, like remember one time having, looking in the mirror, my hair was fully white.

So it was like, and then when I woke up into a body of the younger me, with brown hair, I was so excited. So, you know, also that part of us, this can shape shift that can jump timelines that can, that can have multiple lives. Simultaneously in parallel. Yes. Simultaneously is the key there. Yeah, because we think about reincarnation as one after the other and I'm not saying that there isn't some different sense of something in those [00:10:00] realms, but also that for the soul it's almost like a It's a playing a game is kind of, maybe it doesn't give it surface, but given having the experience of being all these different characters, so it's called characters, personalities, though the soul itself seems to have a personality, but each of the characters it is playing as is having its own fragment.

of the overall personality. So that's been also really interesting to experience myself having not just different genders and different abilities and different kinds of priorities sometimes, but a whole different mind. Like, I don't know how Like in a sense, like something that can be really hard for one of my dream characters to wrap its mind around can be a matter of two seconds.

And of course I know how to do this when I wake up or the other way around, which also has been giving me a little bit of a first person [00:11:00] experience of what it's like to have different lifetimes and to be different people. Not just different people, but also if we want to understand partially going into realms of incarnation and learning true limitation, if that can make sense.

There are different abilities that sometimes get reawakened or even abilities for empathy and for compassion by getting to know what it's like to sometimes be an extreme case. Play the role or be assigned the role of an intelligent character in a certain position. And then afterwards have one as somebody who is not so mentally developed, you know what I mean?

Or where analytical thinking isn't, isn't there. Thanks so much. And they have different strengths. 

Amina: Yeah. Interesting. I love the crossover between all the counterparts and my idea of reincarnation has also evolved to kind of realize that. It's not linear, like we think [00:12:00] it's like one after the other, but it's really like time doesn't exist in that way.

So it's kind of all happening at once. 

Meriana: It all happens simultaneously. 

Amina: Yeah. 

Meriana: And in my work with QAHD, the Dolores Cannons developed this system of hypnosis. That gets in touch with the subconscious which the way she describes the subconscious is the part of you that knows everything can do anything Which a lot of people would describe as the divine conscious.

Anyway, is that divine? I wouldn't call it aspect, but let's go for I mean, yeah, let's call it aspect Actually, why not aspect because a lot of it is kind of makes the most sense Through using aspects, since they're all aspects of me, all the different dream me's there have been also me, but they're not quite the me that I would call awake, talking to you right now, and they have different abilities and different goals, but it's also still a communication with, with [00:13:00] the whole, if we call also great spirit, uh, intelligence within the whole, the organizing principle that puts order and puts Form and shape of the let's call it void vacuum and puts the energy in units that can interact, that can coagulate, that can separate, that can relate.

In a way, since I've been kind of also especially paying more attention to connecting with my own spirit guides, guide, guardian angels, wherever you call it, that conversation has gone to sometimes in the daytime, kind of through my thoughts, but then in dreams, it becomes a whole lot of thing where it's Even more direct in the sense of it can use visuals in a whole different way and you can create worlds on the spot in a way to make examples of Communication, I guess we're having 

Amina: yeah, I [00:14:00] love that one thing I also love doing that in lucid dreams is seeking out spirit guides and in the waking world, too You know calling on guides to help me navigate these worlds.

What's your experience been like with that? 

Meriana: It's been interesting. I mean, a really interesting one actually came recently, but I wanted to, how should I say, since I've been kind of communing with spirit in that way also now in my conscious life, but with a lot of journaling and, uh, Automatic writing. So I've been getting so much the sense of getting very responses.

It's very much a conversation. So it was in a dream recently where I asked for spirit to show itself in a dream because I realized I was lucid and this time, instead of doing some of the usual things I do, like flying through walls or. Like, depending on the dream, because they're different abilities.

Sometimes they're the abilities to manifest things, which I think you seem really good at. [00:15:00] Kind of the imagining what you want to manifest, and then when going into another space in the dream, hope that it's going to be there. Yeah, I love doing that. Yeah. And I know that some people also really good at mind control, that's been in some dreams, but also not in all.

And I know that especially children, funny enough, the, the child of my ex, as well as my stepchild right now, can be pretty amazing at some of those things. Like especially he was telling me about the whole mind control thing. The way he was using it. For example, the kid of my ex was not a kid anymore, but also realizing how I've been doing that is some of the dreams.

Very much for service to self, so to say, when my very first lucid dream, when I was six, in which I made it so that everybody was serving me, so to say, in particular ways or being in service of the things I wanted to experience. [00:16:00] So that's been really interesting now, instead of using it for. Self gratification almost you use it as a deepening with the relationship with all of creation with the intelligence behind the scenes if that makes sense.

And it was interesting that in that particular dream, when I became lucid and realized that, okay, that's a dream, I'm in a dream, so that conversation with that consciousness that I've been doing automatic writing with, I invited it to show itself. And suddenly I was transported to this thing like a cave.

When it did, And it took the form of, I've been doing some researching since then, but let's say it was a form of an animal. And it told me that straight away that this is not an animal that exists on earth. Because I know that it, and since then when I'm realizing, I understand now why it was saying that.

And it was kind of like, it took the [00:17:00] form of a, Really playful, really loving. It was something in between like a seal, like, or a baby sea lion. That was making like figure eights in the air. It means some people like, or mermaid, but it did not have the face of a human. Or since then, I've been also researching more the code, the responding dragon in the Chinese religion.

I mean, there's Chinese mythology, but it was the most beautiful thing. It took a form of something that was in a way animal formed, which also is in a way the anima taking a form. Then the kind of form that I would not be intimidated or afraid by off that was hieroglyphs that were coming out of its body, which is, it was communicating, but true symbols and true feelings.

And [00:18:00] in that particular dream, I mean, my emotional state was that of an inner child, there was a childlike innocence and wonder, I would say, because I remember outstretching my hands towards it at some point. Like halfway, not fully, and it came closer and started doing almost like figure eight around my hands.

I don't remember us really touching, but there was this kind of read communing and almost like it created the dance around my hands and with me. It was like we established a really beautiful emotional bond, so to say. And then it's also in a way the nature of a dream is also a mirror. As well as a portal to connecting with aspects of consciousness and then apparently also to different worlds.

Because in that particular dream, after connecting with the, I mean, now I could call it spirit animal, which is also, from what I understand, is one of the ways that, in some tradition, they call it the Nagual, the Nagual that watches [00:19:00] over you. And the Nagual is kind of being described as a spirit animal and animal is still, I don't know how, how to hold the thing animal, but there is also a sense of, okay, let's, let's stay with that for now.

But once we connected and then the dream continued and you went to some other place, so outside of the cave, and I was just going to leave some house, but then some time. Other things were happening outside. And it shows me sometimes there is this feedback system when you go too much one way and things starts getting complicated.

Or for some reason, like the more I go to the right, sometimes this was like almost like a far right view and something. And suddenly there was. You can call it military special forces on the other side. Something that kind of comes with a particular sense of order and rules and so on. So in that dream, I went back into the [00:20:00] darkness of the house I was coming out of, so to say, to get my bag or something.

But when I went back in, we went somewhere else. And you kind of, it was almost like a sense of dropping in. And dropping in, I mean, closer to the heart because I know that we have often the idea of higher frequency and is going up and out and how much some of this journey said, because it is emotional.

way of navigating the space. A lot of the time we can set intentions and go to places that kind of correspond with the emotion. So it's very much kind of emotional resonance, not navigating system, but something like that. But that's also the only time so far that I went in the only one, I'm not sure, but it took me to a realm where.

Everybody was lucid and [00:21:00] it looked like maybe a little bit like something with like old Greek, not amphitheater, but something like, um, the, some of these temples in Greece that had to have the big columns, but also different, I would say people, but we were all in spirit form. And that's what I'm realizing that even that in some of the, um, let's say the Hindu traditions, they talk about the Naga people and they, they're represented with this snake like bodies, like with the top part of a human and the bottom of a snake, and I'm realizing that a lot of that is probably their way of.

Trying to put what spirit form can look like in, or the spirit beings that we turn into, as well as encounter in some dreams, when it's not about walking, we can fly and we can glide. And my guess is because of this gliding ability in a lot of those dreams to kind of almost hover over the floor and [00:22:00] glide through, over surfaces and through walls where the whole thing with the snake came in.

And the snake people or the, however, they were, I mean, the Nagas, which also from what I understand in the Hindu traditions, they were thinking of them as very wise and also very beautiful. And it was maybe that kind of realm. In my eyes, they looked like people in different robes and it was different covered robes.

There was like a full body robes and some of them were flying together in clusters. You know what I mean? It was what I would imagine as the Garden of Eden, but with multiple people and maybe more like Shambhala or what I was thinking of is like Atlantis because they're like Conscious realm. So under the surface of conscious awareness.

So we have, and then even soon after that, I was watching some things about the mermaid and mermen and so on. [00:23:00] And some of those even fairy tales were presenting something similar, like a place where everybody can fly. Fly in the sense, like it's easy for the human mind to imagine flying, like swimming underwater.

Well, being able to breathe, so my sense about this whole sunken continent of Atlantis was also where these aspects of us that are very lucid to the nature of reality and have much more activated abilities as well as, and, and are a collective in a way to exist in a place sealed from the consciousness, I guess, from people who are not in that On that wavelength, which was super surprising to me.

It felt like I went to a realm that I have only heard about from what I imagined to be like under Mount Shasta or under Mount Kailash. I know what I mean, like what is associated [00:24:00] with different places in inner earth. If we imagine it's in our inner self, is that. Make our inner world and I've been geeking out a lot about Trying to learn from the subconscious also from my own experiences with hypnosis as well as from a lot of the books They're out there now from not just from Dolores cannon But also there have been also some audio books trying to describe Atlantis Lemuria some of this Temple.

I was thinking of this particular one when there is this woman kind of who is working with Temple and is, uh, giving higher wisdom to people, she's teaching them different, I would call it organic technology of the soul, and she was concerned about, so what if some of the, some of her students start using the knowledge for not for good.

How can she, I'm trying to remember which book that exactly, or which chapter it was, but I remember her being in [00:25:00] conflict. So should, am I supposed to not teach because they could be used for destructive purposes, or am I supposed to teach and kind of trust that it's going to be okay? And somehow in that, that supposedly her husband developed a technology to seal it off.

To seal that core and that realm off so that people who are not in the same vibration cannot perceive it, or cannot go there, cannot see it kind of a thing. And it felt like, wow. So some of these realms actually still exists is maybe to the dreamer within also the, who is outside of linear time as we know it, but that particular one.

And it was very beautiful to interact. They remember us giving, uh, this other woman who somehow. The slightly different height from me, we were giving each other a hug and it was kind of this laughing, super ecstatic, almost orgasmic experience without really having sex the way people would think. But it was the pleasure of connection and [00:26:00] the pleasure of contact was so intense and it was so much beauty and it was so much sense of togetherness and of.

Almost everybody there being such on the same wavelength in some ways of awareness and creating beauty together and focusing on creating good feelings in the people around them. It was in some ways, possibly, also very much service to other, the way, imagine it, the way Atlantis itself was described in some of the different literature I found about it.

It can, it can have both aspects, but. It created the whole different awareness of me of how many worlds within worlds within worlds there are. 

Amina: Wow. Yeah, that's really profound and it makes a lot of sense. You know, we're not able to access every dimension that's out there, you know, certain places are, you know, not for humans or they're closed off.

That makes so much sense. And I've also [00:27:00] had dream experiences that have kind of showed me that we're not always allowed to see everything, you know? So that's really interesting and quite a profound experience. I love that you researched the symbology and the ancient myths that go along with what you saw in the dream so you can learn more about it as time goes on.

Meriana: Yeah, and those especially it's, it's giving me information the way it knows that it would work for me, which is, 

Amina: yes, 

Meriana: we mean experience first and then all the outer things come out, come up so often within the next day or two after experiencing something and get all the outer. Intranet or movie or whatever it is, kind of almost affirmation of something.

And I was remembering then even researching the seal and trying to check what's the seal of God, because in a way I was calling out for, I don't want to say for God, but for something like that, for that aspect that is making it all happen. Like even in the dream, [00:28:00] because I know that becoming losing the dream, I can feel like, Oh, I can play God, but there's some other aspect of me that is putting all the details in place.

So I don't have to pay attention in a way. The subconscious of the dreamer is still there creating the dream or transporting it to different, sometimes co created dreams and shared dreams. And we'll see if that deal is that thing that if we're in the body of that, It was interesting also to research recently some things in two other dreams where I was virtually taken from one dream where I was about to drown, it felt like it, into a hole on the body of a something that felt like a very big sea, sea creature, maybe like a whale.

But like, I would think of sperm whale because it was coming from straight down below. The way sperm whales go to the surface, they go from below straight up. And then [00:29:00] taking me down with it, it was, oh, and I came to the depths, it kind of, it was becoming dark and cold and it was not liking it. And I was able to steer it back up with my heart and with my attention.

I was, if I was leading with my heart, I could change the direction it was going. So then we started going back and back towards the surface. And I remember even using my hand to equalize my, I don't know. Do you, do you do diving? I'm not in the waking, not really. Because my logic, my left brain kicked in and was like, but wait, if you go that deep, you can't go that up.

You have to equalize. What if your eardrums? 

Amina: Oh yeah, you're letting that conscious logic come in. 

Meriana: So apparently my left hand was still available to equalize and equalize just as we were crossing the surface. And yeah, there was a whole bunch of other things that happened after that. But there is, so I've been since then thinking is if there [00:30:00] is such thing as the, you can call it mythical beast, but the word beast comes so loaded, but an aspect of the, of us, of the soul, that is also the.

Let's go with the anima, being also closer to that, there is also the, who was saying that the animals never got kicked out of the Garden of Eden, and that some of this separation possibly came with the, how we use also the rational mind, the left brain, which is much more built on divide and categorize and cut into pieces in order to understand and rearrange, which is also very important, while the right brain is much more connected with the whole.

And it sees things in wholes and in feelings, which seems to be much more the language of the soul. The emotion is the language of the soul. And then there is the corpus colossum connecting them both, which is in a way the body of the giant, the colossal corpus. I mean, there [00:31:00] can be translated slightly different, but it can be also because that Aspect of being, this can be like a giant that can take us in its body and transport it somewhere else, or it can be seen as, I know that some people see soul as a house.

I think that's how the church potentially got its place as the House of God. But it's also the soul of God. , since if Spirit and Soul are like a unit and, and you can be seen almost as the wrap or the sneaky thing. The way they were talking, Shiva loves its snakes. It's the spiritual, the spirit body, but the guardian spirit body that can also take you in and transport you or serve as an elevator to the higher dimensions or to the lower dimensions.

In some ways, like Baba Yaga has a horrible association with it from the fairy tales, but I've been thinking a lot about almost like the house of Baba Yaga with the chicken legs. In a sense, [00:32:00] because he was going into the dark space of that house, and in that dark house is the one that was able to walk on his chicken legs, if we see.

I know that in some, like the Egyptians were seeing very much like the horse and Ra had the chicken heads. So this is more the chicken legs, the ability of the divine to transport and teleport by the power of thought and fueled by emotion. So when the heart is open and is attuned to a particular sense of oneness and curiosity, it can transport us to a realm that is corresponding to that.

And when in a realm that feels, no, that's not where I want to be going, but turning around in a lucid dream and starting to go the opposite direction, it opens up to the opposite of that. And sometimes then it's like, Oh, it's all open gates, friendly people, celebratory, uh, musical [00:33:00] experiences and so on. So it's been also.

I've been trying to understand more also how to work with as well as utilize that ability of the soul to be the Noah's Ark in a way. This anima aspect that can envelop you. To not say swallowed by a whale, which is kind of very cutely how, uh, in the Shoukei the movie, they were using that too, the, when she negotiates with the whale to go into his body, and it can transport her around the universe.

Nick, I don't know if you watched the Shoukei? 

Amina: No, I haven't seen it. 

Meriana: It's really interesting. They're, they're like these tribes are like, that's cool fish, but they're like this really big whales and she drove her spaceship eventually with its permission into its body, but that can, um, how's it called teleport going to hyperspeed and appear somewhere else?

And it was a really interesting way [00:34:00] of traveling through the galaxies. Make or 

Amina: I'll have to check that and out. 

Meriana: Mm 

Amina: hmm. It's like a good series Yeah, I've had dreams like that too. And one of them was kind of you know, kind of like that I find it interesting how like the dream has different ways or our subconscious Maybe has different ways of like presenting things to us in a way that we will understand the main, you know message It reminds me of a dream that I had where I was like riding through different Dimensions and realms on this giant like mythical dragon kind of thing, but it didn't, it wasn't really like a dragon.

It was kind of like you said, like an animal I've never really seen before. And we were just, I was lucid and it felt like it was like hours or like days long. And we were just traveling to different places and we went down underwater. And the dragon was like telepathically talking to me, like, this is where Atlantis is in this realm.

And there was a mermaid looking [00:35:00] creatures that like spoke another language, but they could still communicate 

Meriana: with us telepathically. 

Amina: And it was really interesting. I don't remember many of the details because I think sometimes. When I go on these long soul journeys, I can't bring everything back with me to the conscious.

I think it's just too much, but there's a way that my brain like translates it into like Lessons and guidance that my conscious mind can take with me. 

Meriana: Mm hmm And I actually have been just recently exploring like researching even more into the dragon Like I've been writing, that's been coming up for years now in my automated writing about how to ride your dragon.

And he was calling it the dragon of passions. And I always thought that that's, it's going to be something about how to master your emotional body. Because I mean, I work as a psychotherapist and I've been working in the realms of emotions and helping people to work with overwhelming emotion and different ways of emotional [00:36:00] regulation as well as.

For some years, I was also organizing ayahuasca retreats for people in Peru, where they were drinking with different shamans there when it comes to ayahuasca. But I was teaching the psychological skills and developed the system for tools for navigating altered states, but I had no idea that that might be much more.

I mean, symbols can become real and it's really interesting to hear you say that because one of the ways I describe my, some of these conversations with spirit is like talking to the wise dragon, but not in the sense of draconian beings, like in the way kind of the West is put really, really negative connotation on that.

Like draconian ways of ruling as if that's about power over and oppression and deceit and so on. So it was really beautiful to actually find that Chinese dragon. It's the responding dragon that [00:37:00] is white dragon and you can, I think there is also because sometimes it showed itself in more like some of the skills that had to do with iridescent green, blue, green, blue, which I guess is also partially much more like a Quetzalcoatl.

This is the rainbow dragon. 

Amina: Yeah. 

Meriana: But then it's kind of really, I see it as high, highly evolved aspects of consciousness. Like, also in dialectical behavior therapy, for example, it's very much about connecting people with the wise mind, the mind of wisdom. Or also in some of the psychotherapy, like in the recreation of the self, it's.

More with the yellow one, I guess, with the finding the excitement behind the pain, like the desire of what do you really want to experience? What do you love so much that you would suffer or fight for instead of with the struggle? And connecting with the essence of that, almost with the crystalline [00:38:00] essence of that reambler of pure vibration, or compassion, or the different qualities.

So in some, I just found a little movie, actually, I mean, something on YouTube that blew me away. I just saw it yesterday, I'm still finishing it about what it means to meet your dragon, and what does it mean, and how to work with different colored dragons, but as if that was really like an animal aspect that you're interacting and exchanging information slash getting teaching from.

It's a version of the, I guess, of the spirit. teacher, spiritual master that we are kind of under internship with, whether we know it or not. And I believe that everybody has their own spirit guide, their own guardian angels. And I've heard that there are two main ones. One is in charge of the body and the other, the other one helps him with emotions.

And I guess the first time I met the [00:39:00] dragon, I was thinking about it was in a lucid dream in which I was finding myself going up, like flying over the stairs, trying to get higher and higher. And it was getting faster and faster. It was really hard to handle because it was like trying to play a video game in a speed that is way over what I'm used to comfortable being able to handle.

And I think that one was also kind of representing at that point, trying to get higher, like to reach the top. Of the something or the way we are kind of thinking of even divinity or certain things as you have to keep going up, up, up, up, up. And in one of the automatic writings, it was saying like, you guys, it feels like sometimes it's this kind of thinking of a hair that is trying to reach up and leave the body.

It's grounded in. And how in so many in other spiritual traditions, actually, what they associate with divinity is much more the ground of being. As if kind of our [00:40:00] idea of, I mean, I'm not saying that it's not about also acceleration sometimes, but also if it goes on the cost of inner peace or groundedness, then it becomes this kind of hyper.

It's hard to handle functioning. So it somehow changed because I remember going, okay, I'm flying. There are all these things. And then going like, I'm, I'm God. And it stopped for a second. Almost the green started like falling apart a little bit. And there was a sense, no, I, I'm not all of that because obviously I couldn't change all the details.

And I didn't have the capacity to pay attention to all the things that were manifesting around me, and it's, uh, one by one, but there was another aspect of me or another presence, another beingness that was doing it, and it was very much connected with me. And remembering that dream going somehow down to the surface where I found my husband and we were [00:41:00] talking a little bit.

So I put him on my back for some reason, and then it was a hole in the ground. And we flew in down the hall, which was like corridors. I can think of the whole house of Amenti almost now. And I had to remember again, how to navigate without bumping in any walls. To kind of keep going down, then my, my husband somehow disappeared, but I ended up in this, I guess, version of a cave again, where there was this dragon or, yeah.

This one was more like a dragon than like a snake for sure, but it had a very long neck and very big head and it was in front of me, almost its body was deeper in the earth, it was more underground or underwater at that point, I don't know. And I was in the cave and we were having such a beautiful conversation and it was so wise.

And it was kind of this exchange of wisdom, but with something that was an otherworldly being. [00:42:00] And before that, I have been having my own share of, uh, when listening about the different things of aliens and all the draconians and all this and that. So I have had associated a lot of draconian energy with not able to feel, wanting to conquer, you know what I mean, how sometimes the way humans are trying to understand, and I'm sure that might be.

Somewhere out there too, especially when it comes to how we imagine reptiles to be. And it's harder to connect emotionally with, with a reptile, a friend of mine, just her little dragon. I mean, it was kind of like, uh, how would you call them? Not salamander, but it was, it was a pretty big one that she had in, um, 

Amina: Like a gecko or like, uh, like an iguana or something.

Meriana: Yes, something like that. It recently died. But she, she said she never was able to establish like a two way emotional connection. So the spiritual dragon, put it that way, or mermaid, it's very [00:43:00] different. And I'm sure that you felt like that too. I've been thinking a lot about, uh, dance scenes, about Avatar the movie, that kind of like, that each of us has one, let's put it that way, that we can bond with by the, I mean, they were doing it by the hair, or by the ponytail, which is also very 

Amina: Yeah, it's a good movie.

Meriana: Because it's also actually around the tailbone, where the roots of the, where the nerve endings come out from the spine, and it's also the Tail, I mean, it's up there by the, and then when the branches go up is the top part of the spine. It's supposed to be the other crossing, the, that it takes to cross to go up into the head for the nervous system.

But there is in researching also a lot of some things that showed up that are on some Hindu temples where they present things with the ponytail, like there's some depictions of What [00:44:00] will be like the spirit of, they call it five women, and then there's the spirit of nine women, but I think there is the oversold of a certain amount of Shaktis, and how they were in, there was always one whose ponytail or the hair would kind of make a thing around the hole.

And there is also the aspect of the soul, I think, to wrap around, if that makes sense, and make holes out of, like, if you want to communicate with the spirit of all your five fingers, it can be then, you can turn it into the spirit of the left hand, or the other, or the right hand, for example. You can take it into paths of Tantra versus Advaita and so on, but there is that also the aspect that can wrap itself around or, and it can pull you out of a situation.

And I think it's almost that when the spirit takes the divine spark out of one body and puts in, goes somewhere else. I don't know how to [00:45:00] say it, but I've had so many times that dream of a big wave coming towards the shore and I'm on the shore. Almost like consists from memory from flood when I was, must have been there because it's repeating quite a bit.

And when I was asking that consciousness about it and you, I was saying, don't worry about it. You never get to see the second wave of always pull you out before. anything hits. So it's kind of the ability for spirit also to know when to not, when to not stay in the body if something is going on that the body is dying, for example.

Or if there is, because I'm not saying even that it's really about dying since that is, I think, misunderstood. It's this particular life versus when I listen to a lot of people in the East, they often feel so much more alive in a different way and so much more able to remember and to know all there [00:46:00] is to know, kind of much more directly by knowing their oneness with all beings in a way.

And they're much more able to know then suddenly how everybody feels or what they're thinking about, what they have going on, if they're still in the operation room in the ER, for example, and then suddenly know what everybody there is thinking about, have going on in their life. So you're going to the part that is much more naturally one with all beings from this kind of trance of separation that we experience.

When as an individual in a body, we seem to, I don't even know if we seem to have more limited abilities to be in touch with y'all, or also we've been trained to believe in the limitations extra lots. From what I understand in other cultures means the ability to telepath or to have different psychic abilities is supposedly very much like writing.

I mean, your left hand can write, but if [00:47:00] you have never. trained, it's going to suck at the beginning, so to say. Yeah, 

Amina: that's a good example. Yeah. 

Meriana: And in different societies, those intuitive powers and the powers and the abilities for direct knowing and direct access of information were much more trained, much more regarded as real and regarded as something to pay attention to and to go to school with or part of the education that was being transmitted.

Amina: Yeah, that's true. These abilities can be strengthened and I think our beliefs and, you know, prior expectations about how the world works affects, you know, how it develops over time. And I wanted to ask you about the automatic writing that you talk about. What is your process like with that? I'm really interested in that.

Meriana: It's being, sometimes I prepare questions or I start some, I mean, I've tried the with intention and try it without intention and kind of. Writing the first thing that [00:48:00] comes to mind, which sometimes can go into being less and less of my Mariana conscious self being present and this other consciousness getting to express by trusting kind of a thing and almost is a little warmup period of trusting what comes to mind and just writing it down.

And soon it becomes almost like much more automatic where it's not even me deciding or being so much of, I don't want to even say in control. I'm happy to send you some of those things. Sometimes they come much more like, uh, poetry, but the fact that sometimes it's even using words that I have to Google afterwards, and they happen very often to be the perfect word for it, just I didn't know it.

Or I found that out to be like a way of accessing the subconscious a little bit. 

Amina: Yeah, that's really cool. That's really interesting. I know that a lot of [00:49:00] really great minds from like the surrealist era and, and just for a long time have been using automatic writing as a way to access like subconscious and archetypal information.

So I know that it's a very powerful tool. 

Meriana: And I've been trying also to And I've been very, very hesitant asking for favors for you that way, because I know that in a way it's the gin in your bottle, the, it's the spirit that is assigned to you to watch over you that inclination, but sometimes it's a multi inclinational process.

It's the, they'll still have the spirit guide who is always with them. And there is kind of the relationship with this master spirit or whatever you want to call it. The. I think it's a infinite journey, so if it goes infinitely high in wisdom, for example, there will be always the the fractal above I associate as the representation of you in a way from the fractal above, [00:50:00] which is almost like a personal representative of the divine to you.

If the transpersonal is not so personal, but it makes one personal to you. Which is also a collective, and you can, so you can relate to it as collective, as a collective of many that can be also, you can relate to it as one on one, but it's as long as you know that the one can be also collective, since the Elohim is a collective, in a way.

And also, I'm getting more in touch with some of what we see also as alien beings, I think might be coming from other dimensions and other frequencies of consciousness in a way. 

Amina: That makes sense. I do think so, that interdimensional, you know, aliens or beings can come and visit us through dreams or even in the physical.

Meriana: I've had the two experiences I had that were the strongest about that were, I mean, I woke up after them, but they were more real than, [00:51:00] let's say, I was very awake and very, very aware of what was going on, but it was like in reality, it was made to look like my room, like my bedroom. And I could see that there was a collective of, I would call them now grace, but I don't.

I don't even almost want to put them in a box and how terrified I was in the beginning because I couldn't move anything and how much sometimes it takes almost the The way it was telling me sometimes the quickest way to the best case scenario sometimes goes to the worst case scenario, through getting so scared and so out of options and so desperate that you surrender trying to control and finally ask for help from the divine.

Because often the ego is so, I don't want to call it the ego, but also it sometimes takes kind of really being out of options or in, uh, situations where you're between a rock and a hard place to go, Oh, God helped me, especially that time. I mean, I wouldn't even call it God. So I was calling for [00:52:00] the love and light, love and light.

It was like, what's the highest spiritual principle that is good that I can turn to for help. And I remember chanting going love and light, love and light, love and light. And that voice came saying like, if you want that to work, you have to feel it. So I tried to open my heart to love and to feel the love, which I don't know how I did it in that time, in the middle of so much terror, but it happened and it was like almost like explosion in my heart.

I think that also that's when the spirit within was able to Not come out, but also connect with the higher aspect, establish the thing, but there was like a whole portal of light, like column of light that opened up in the bedroom and kind of sucked me up, which of course you can say the UFO can be seen as something like that when you get sucked up by the light, but what I remember going up to and is As it was ascending in the light while feeling this health, it was [00:53:00] interesting.

So I remember even looking at my body and it was made out of light, but it was becoming less and less. It was almost more and more transparent or something like that. And he was going towards that big light that felt like I was going into God, into the divine, the light of the divine. And once I was in that, that was one out of many sparks, which together we were God and he was so loving, it was so full of love and there was, we would light and love and it was, I could see that each one of them were either.

We were the same, we were of the same light. Some of them were moving a little bit differently, you know what I mean? And we could still pay attention together and exchange, I guess, light codes in the form of pure information. While also, it was so clear that together, in our oneness, we are God. Like, I mean, but that was A very clear [00:54:00] knowing, it was almost when I was trying later to think about, to compare with different things, I mean, A, how many people have actually had that experience as an NDE, and also I was thinking about that being almost like the cherubim parts.

The sparks of the divine that are pure loving curiosity, they're the ones that enter the, you can call it the kingdom. But in that case, the case was like a realm because we didn't have bodies outside of light. And it was almost each of us was like a vantage point of light, like a locus, like genius loci is this kind of brilliancy of light of, you can call it awareness, but there was not a lot of mind there at all.

It was sharing and it was love. And it was togetherness and oneness. And my guess is that when the mind came in, okay, I don't know. I was, it's something kind of started to remember what was that thing with the aliens. And in the moment they started [00:55:00] to like with the thought I was back there and coming from the ceiling this time into the room where they were.

But this time I was feeling so joyful and so empowered. But my ego must have been coming in because the first thought I had was like, Oh, you didn't get me. Which in the next stream, when they came back, they were like, just for you not to get confused. It was very interesting. Of course, they, it was very different because then, but that's what I could see their faces in the big guys.

And when they came again, maybe a month later, it was. I could not, and again, I was back into this whole conditioning that we have from the movies. Oh, now they're going to what? Experiment on me, put me on tables, cut the meal, whatever it is. And from what I understand now, much more, more that sometimes it's also, I mean, they might be our spirit team from whichever side, or it's, it can be also.

It wouldn't happen if the higher self wouldn't allow it, put it that way, or if we haven't prearranged it for [00:56:00] ourselves, in a way, pre incarnation, and that might be very much a theme of possible even, I don't want to make too many theories, but in that sense, it was like, I know that one of them was able to move things in the room, including my upper body, just by moving its finger.

Like, or either it's a finger or something in its head. I know that some people think that some of them hold like a pen, and if they move the pen, then they can do things in the world. Like, it I think in one of them, there was also somebody known who they started shooting at a bunch of aliens when they met them and the alien kind of moved something like a pen or something and cut off the fingers that were holding the gun so he couldn't shoot anymore.

In this human, it's very natural to, I guess, natural or conditioned that if you don't understand something how to, when in doubt, kill before you ask questions or shoot before you ask questions, but I guess I forget his name now, but, uh, he, he afterward tried to speak a lot about it, but in a very fear driven [00:57:00] and how we should be afraid of them and so on, kind of like, which did not feel right, especially that, yeah, Anyway, there was a sense and they communicated with me through a symbol.

They, they were creating some kind of geometry for me to look at that didn't feel voluntary since they were even controlling, something else was controlling even the direction I can look in, but nothing negative happened from that. And then even wondering if there is such thing as information imprints, I'm getting more and more the sense that it's very much about higher knowing or connecting with certain things.

Aspects of universal truth that sometimes also can take a while to mature and germinate, if that makes sense. But I've been getting also a lot of how much it's like a universal family of beings and how to see some of those, because knowing humanity is very much Even just seeing how the [00:58:00] whole team of aliens was introduced in the parliament and was talked about was there was a lot about How can they they harm us and what can they do to?

Yeah, and at least from that dream my sense is if that's what they wanted It's a little bit too easy and how hard it was for humans to switch away from that If something is that much more evolved Trying to protect from it is one thing, trying to go against it and putting all the, so much of the technology to protect or to create weapons against and to use the most brilliant ideas in science to keep them secret in order to militarize is something that.

Yeah, it's been personally bugging me honestly to a degree and yeah, we're mostly protecting from our own human nature projected 

Amina: Yeah, there's a lot of narratives around that and fear and it's about controlling You know the masses with the whole the [00:59:00] whole idea of how they want people to see these types of things and I do think That you know other aliens and beings if they're far more Advanced than us.

We're not, I don't think we're as vulnerable as people think when we're sleeping and traveling, you know, through the dream world and other realms. I think that, you know, at the end of the day, it's all about mindset and protecting your own energy. And I think that that will keep you safe. And even if you have scary or weird dream experiences, it's all a part of this bigger lesson that we're on somehow.

So yeah, I think that you have a really, really good perspective on it all. 

Meriana: And including this thing with non interference that we do have higher aspects. that are very much there as protectors, as guardians. I mean, that's also how dragons have been seen in some cultures, only some cultures, and especially the white dragon in the Chinese culture.

It could be seen as a symbol, symbolic thing [01:00:00] of an oversoul. That's why there are multiple people in its body. They kind of, if we're cells in the body of God, but kind of more like that because I see God much more. I mean, I would relate to it much more as light and love than as a person. I don't know, but the dragon is almost also the aspect of it that can make forms and can make shapes and can make things look separate and can make environments.

Maybe that's why it was misunderstood as this great illusionist. Illusionist, yes, but not like trying to lie and deceive. But knowing how to construct environments to communicate for the soul's maturation, maybe, let's call it maturation and education. It's not that the soul needs to learn, but when in incarnation, I think it comes with so much forgetting and also for a reason so that we can be this individual, not all of those individuals we've ever been or can be at once.

They've [01:01:00] been gaining even more and more respect for the veil of forgetting and for having only some of the picture in order to be able to play the game. 

Amina: Yeah. I mean, it's there for a reason. I think if we had all the information, it would just defeat the purpose. You know, we each have certain cards that were dealt and yeah, I think we can't know everything.

And when we go and. sleep and we have dream experiences or OBEs, NDEs, this kind of altered states, we get little glimpses of it and we can bring it back and it can guide us, but it's still so elusive. You know, the veil kind of quickly covers itself back up because if we have all the answers all at once, I think it would be overwhelming.

We couldn't handle it as a little human brain. 

Meriana: Yeah. It makes, it reminds me of one of my first experiences of astral projection, I guess, when, I was in a workshop retreat, something when I was 19, which I guess in my ways with paying the fees and driving all the way there, I was showing that I was serious and wanting to know more about spirits.

So [01:02:00] that night I remember being ejected from the body, kind of into these lights. It was like almost like a collection of starlight stars, but something, it was a big light. It was not even so about the individual status, but when I started coming back from the light, there was a knowing that I knew everything there is to know.

And the more I was going into the body, I could not hold it. I could not. So there is maybe even something with The mind itself and the concepts we have pre built and belief systems. I don't know, some of it might be also about the body and all the physical processes, but I'm not quite sure how much of that is the mind not able to behold, or maybe even have the words for so much of that knowledge that the soul just knows.

So there is the direct knowing, and there is the understanding. And sometimes from what I understand, even to remember something, is we remember the parts that we can put into words [01:03:00] because of how we're conditioning around language and into communicating through separate units of information kind of words, for example, and sentences and so on, versus Big, for more understanding, some reamps is much more about blocks of information that can be opened into volumes and volumes and volumes, but get into it's more about directly transferring one symbolic block of information block is not even maybe the right word, but it's not so linear.

And when we reason with our left brain, if it could not put it in words or has a very clear merit, the kind of. Speak to something. It's really hard for it to remember and to conceive of it. Almost like some strong psychedelic experiences, like with ayahuasca, it can feel in some realms, it can feel so meaningful and so deep and it's so much there.

But if you try to put it into words, we don't have the language. We don't have the [01:04:00] lingo, so it's hard. Yeah, it's 

Amina: like a different language and same with dreams, you know, but I also believe that even when we start to forget the words for the experience and the lesson, I think, It integrates itself in our subconscious, even if we're not aware of it.

And then as our life progresses, you know, they show up in different symbols and synchronicities that help integrate. 

Meriana: Yeah, but basically what I wanted to say to be reminded listeners that if there is such thing as the law of non intervention, and I'm not saying that. The guardian angels, the spirit guides cannot intervene in certain ways when it really has to, like, there have been situations where I almost had a car accident where suddenly time almost stopped and it went so slow and I suddenly had skills to drive that I really didn't, so whatever that came from saved my life, it was my first year of driving, but also that it really helps when we ask When we ask for help, when we reach out [01:05:00] to the highest, most benevolent principle, the highest love, whatever we want to call it, because I mean, I know that so many people have such a thing around even the word God, given that it's come with so many centuries of certain religious conditioning that I think has not always put it in a light that would be corresponding to the kind of love that I experienced it being, but it helps a lot.

And when we ask for help, it gives them permission to intervene. 

Amina: Yes, definitely. 

Meriana: And by opening the heart too, by opening to love, which is not always possible, like I couldn't do it the second time I became, I was too terrified still. So when I tried just the words, but I couldn't open my heart so quick.

You know what I mean? So I had a different experience, but by also opening the heart to love when asking for help would help a lot. And it's not necessary because I've, I've had experiences with just asking for help. It came straight away that [01:06:00] says, okay, I got held by the almost base of my back by the ground of being itself, like, I don't know how to put it, but then suddenly it was, it gives permission for forces and aspects of us to intervene and be of assistance that maybe otherwise would be held much more by the law of non intervention, unless we ask and open ourselves to receive it.

Amina: Yeah, that makes so much sense. I mean, intention and invitation is really everything. So I really appreciate you bringing that up and for sharing your experiences and opening up to, you know, being so vulnerable. I think it's important that we talk about these things and normalize talking about them. 

Meriana: And I'm personally so curious if anybody else, it's so beautiful to hear your, your dragon experiences because I think there is something about this writing the dragon of spirit, almost a spiritual, and I know they've often put it in the forms of [01:07:00] animals and even maybe there is a reason why it shows up like that, but if other people have experience around it, like with the seal or the, cause it is a flying thing or the white, some people call it the white snake, the way they see it, the wing link.

Wheatling, or how's it called, or fish that kind of can take you in and, or something like that, and be serve as a teleport, as a portal maker. It's almost like creating portals between dimensions that you can go through. I would love to hear from people about it. 

Amina: Definitely. Yeah. I encourage listeners if they resonate or have a similar experience to reach out and talk about it.

It's also the year of the dragon. I've been seeing a lot of like dragon symbolism lately. So that's cool. And do you have like Instagram or Facebook or where can people find you? 

Meriana: My website is psychospiritualwholeness. com. And that's one, that's been one of the things that I've been getting actually is becoming bigger and bigger part of [01:08:00] my work with clients as a psychotherapist, as well as a life coach and psycho spiritual guy, they call it, but it's kind of also co traveler on the road.

I've been very passionate about connecting people with the soul, with the divine aspects within them. I mean, you can call it the higher self as well, as long as you don't imagine it outside yourself. It's the, the most, the deep inner self, in a way. 

Amina: I love 

Meriana: that. And that's been usually, it's almost connecting people with their own source of wisdom, with their own source of pure love that only that can give them an understanding.

And it's so beautiful when that aspect becomes much, much more online. The part of us that is open and connected and compassionate and one with the whole and it can be with everything just as it is. And it's in a way the grand magician. And [01:09:00] sometimes that also takes like, uh, finding and taking the burden from some of the.

Suppressed and repressed and exiled, it's called inner children, the things, our inner child is the magician that can imagine, that can create with its imagination, that can love in a very pure way, and is sometimes with different experiences or examples and traumas and indoctrination sometimes that can be some aspects of our life.

inner divinity can get disowned of that divine child. In a way, how to help people heal that part of themselves, as well as kind of establish much more direct communication with their soul. If you say that God, that the higher selves are collective, and that's kind of much more also than the way the Elohims were collective.

So there is also Some restructuring to do around one's own divinity, but also this is within the law of one, the one [01:10:00] infinite creator. So it's been really exciting now to be able to combine psychotherapy with spiritual work. And I mean, people are welcome to also contact me if they're curious, as well as if there's sometimes struggles can lead as a catalyst to a deeper opening and to a deeper capacity for self love, for self and for others.

Amina: Beautiful. Yes. I think the work you do is very important and I completely support your journey. I'll be sure to include all of your website links and everything in the description so that people can find you easily. 

Meriana: Thank you so much. And I do offer a 15 minute free consultation for people who are curious to know more about how I work or to get a sense if what they're dealing with would be something that I would be a good match for working with, as well as for integration of psychedelic experiences, which is like a different way to access those realms without falling asleep, without working with people around integration from strong [01:11:00] spiritual journeys.

I mean, I really appreciate what you do. Thank you. Creating a place for these ideas to be shared for yourself, being able to allow others to benefit from your wisdom and to invite people that can bring more to that so underestimated and underdeveloped in our society in a way. Organic technology of the soul.

It's the inner technology. 

Amina: Yes, exactly. We're on similar missions and I'm glad that we crossed paths. We'll have to definitely stay in touch and share dreams along the way. I really appreciate you coming on here with, you know, good energy and, and just telling me about all the things you've learned so far.

Meriana: It's the first time I've talked about it publicly. Some of those things and it's, I've decided today to bear it too. Yeah. So I'm glad that you made me feel safe, and I really appreciate it. 

Amina: Yes, I'm glad too. Well, there you go. You heard it here first. And I'm sure it's just the beginning [01:12:00] of talking and sharing about these things.

Thank you. Thank you. That was wonderful.