EP103: Dreaming in Sound and Touch: A Blind Lucid Dreamer’s Story

In this powerful episode, I’m joined by Skyfall,  a blind lucid dreamer and content creator who shares how he taught himself to navigate the dream world through sound, memory, and logic. We explore what dreaming is like without visual imagery, how to stabilize lucidity, false awakenings, technology in dreams, and why awareness matters more than control. Whether you’re new to lucid dreaming or a seasoned oneironaut, this episode will expand how you think about consciousness. We discuss:

🔹 His first lucid dreams and how he learned without sight
 🔹 How blind dreamers "visualize" using memory and touch
 🔹 Technology, logic, and false awakenings in dreams
 🔹 Why dream control and dream awareness are different skills
 🔹 How sleep trackers and wearable tech impact his practice
 🔹 The value of mentorship and community in learning lucid dreaming

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;10
Unknown
It's always fun when you get the early night ones. Like the first hour. Yeah. So you want some of those? It is kind of interesting to think, like, I would be willing to bet that possibly slipped in and out of, like, maybe N1, you know, during N1 because it's kind of it kind of felt like it might have like faded in and out in a couple of moments, but I'm not sure if that was actually be changing out of sleep stages or if it was just something in related to how I was expecting things to happen.

00;00;23;10 - 00;00;45;20
Unknown
But because I'm, I have a pretty deep expectation that that particular dream ended in a false awakening. Because then I have another dream that basically runs like a false awake. And it's basically, I kind of think I might have opened one, one whole dream because it was according to my watch, it was a 23 minute REM period. And I guarantee you that that list that I had wasn't all 23 minutes of it.

00;00;45;20 - 00;01;18;01
Unknown
So I'm pretty sure that the dream afterwards was basically a false awakening. So if it's saying I didn't actually wake up during that time, then I'm pretty sure that that was probably a false awakening. It's kind of cool. So to consider all this. Yeah, that is cool. It does get confusing sometimes because I remember when I was doing this study in the lab at northwestern, I couldn't tell at one point if I was lucid or if I was just waking up.

00;01;18;04 - 00;01;48;20
Unknown
Welcome back to the Dream World podcast and also a collaboration podcast with Skyfall, Blind Dreamer, who is another content creator and lucid dream enthusiast, and also my good friend. So Skyfall and I met just online in the lucid dreaming community. I think specifically maybe on Reddit or honestly, I don't know, YouTube. All the above. And Skyfall is really cool because he's also a lucid dreamer and he has been blind since a young age, so I'll let you take it away.

00;01;48;20 - 00;02;13;23
Unknown
Tell your story. What are your dreams like? What's your experience with lucid dreaming and how does your like waking world and and dream world kind of correlate? Well good morning afternoon evening, middle of the night to anybody who happens to be watching us. As I mean it just that I'm Skyfall blind dreamer. I've been lucid dreaming since October of 2020, which is the worst year in my life thanks to Covid.

00;02;13;25 - 00;02;33;07
Unknown
And I've been blind. I've had a genetic condition that I've had since birth, and I had to sight from a very young age, basically since birth. And then we're just to the point over time where I just have like perception. So I've been living visually impaired my entire life, and it does definitely have an impact on my dreams in terms of just that.

00;02;33;07 - 00;02;57;19
Unknown
They're more auditory and tactile based visuals don't really matter. In fact, I, I don't often notice them much at all. I mean, just like when I'm awake, I can visualize things and imagine things because I had since like when I was younger. And I can see better in dreams than when I'm awake. But it's not really important. Like it doesn't matter at all to me in terms of the actual content that I'm experiencing, doesn't really play much of a role in it.

00;02;57;19 - 00;03;17;22
Unknown
And so it's interesting because I literally see the world in a completely different way. And the average person. Yeah, that's so cool. You know, it's funny because people are always like, oh, but like, how do blind people dream? And I'm like, you know, the same way they experience regular waking life just through sensations and memories and feeling. So I imagine your dreams are probably still very vivid.

00;03;17;27 - 00;03;38;03
Unknown
And you said you can visualize, which I think is cool when you say visualized, you mean like, what is that process like for you? Is it more like tactile than visual? So basically it's really weird. It's interesting. It's like I can repurpose my visual cortex for accessing other sensory data. It's like I can quote unquote visualize like a very vague image of what something might look like.

00;03;38;06 - 00;03;56;03
Unknown
But then while I do that, I then bring up the tactile and I can bring up auditory without doing this at all. I can pick up auditory on command without anything because that's my that's my strongest. But for tactile I can say like imagine, like the outline of something that I experience before and then immediately call up tactile sensations.

00;03;56;03 - 00;04;25;16
Unknown
I'm doing it right now. I'm imagining, for example, the hotel I started in 2022 and I went to the highest conference, the seats on the average commercial airliner I can imagine sitting on the United Airlines flight I took up to DC in March, and immediately, as I imagine sitting there, I can feel I can imagine the texture of the underside of the in-flight entertainment screen where the headphone jack was located, and so I can immediately just pull these things up by visualizing them so I can visualize, sort of like a very vague outline of it.

00;04;25;16 - 00;04;44;00
Unknown
And then associated with that is memories related to an experience and of course tactile and other sensory data as well. So that's that's sort of how my mind works. I actually visualize a lot and I didn't even pay attention or notice it, but I just always do it when I walk around. And it was something I really started tracking consciously until like 2022.

00;04;44;03 - 00;04;59;29
Unknown
But yeah, that's super cool. I've always been so interested in, you know, how your mind works and how such good memory you have and all that. So what were your first lucid dreams like? Like how was your dream recall and how did you begin to realize, like, oh, this is a dream? Well, see, I didn't know what lucid dreaming was.

00;04;59;29 - 00;05;15;15
Unknown
I think the first one I can remember, I was, standing in some assistant park, and I ended up going down a little hallway, and I went through a door, and I was onto the subway platform in New York City, and I realized, oh, I'm a dream. I'm in a dream or something. Something along that line. And I just say, what?

00;05;15;15 - 00;05;29;13
Unknown
To make a subway train appear out of thin air? As you do. And I took it up from Herald Square to Rockefeller Center. And then I kind of like lost awareness. But I knew I was in a dream, and it was one of, I think I only did that like twice the other time. I really remember doing this.

00;05;29;21 - 00;05;44;26
Unknown
This is before I even knew what it was. I was just, sitting in a bed, but it wasn't really my room. I walked over to where there was a computer and I did like the dumbest thing I say, the dumbest thing. But it's something that a lot of beginners do because they don't really think of much else to do in the moment because it's just like, hey, I'm dreaming.

00;05;44;26 - 00;06;02;23
Unknown
Can I wake myself up and something? Yeah, if you think so. And so I did the most nerdy thing a nerd could ever do, and I ran wake up to check on the run dialog on the computer and woke up that way. That's the thing. Technology for me almost always works as it's to really. That's interesting. So you actually.

00;06;02;23 - 00;06;26;28
Unknown
What is that like a joke? Are you actually typed in wake up. And I literally did, got on the desktop on the computer. Windows in desktop, windows are popped up the run dialog type of wake up, press enter. That's cool. That's so funny. And I check that. Yes. Because I expected it to obviously. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Belief plays a big role and a lot of people will say like, oh my, my phone never works in my dream.

00;06;26;28 - 00;06;48;15
Unknown
And for me it's 5050. Sometimes it glitches and sometimes my phone works perfectly in a dream, which is weird. I think one of the reasons technology works as well as it does for me in a lot of dreams, is because I have to memorize how things work in order to use them effectively. And so, like, I'm playing a Star Trek game and it's text based and I know the code in and out because of just how it works.

00;06;48;15 - 00;07;09;02
Unknown
Like I've done messed around with all the systems on there. I memorized all like all the commands, all the responses. You get how it works. I've, you know, basically watch it all, heard it happen so many times. And so if I dream about playing that game, the game mechanics are nearly perfect. There's an occasional like little glitch in the machine in a sense, but the mechanics are nearly perfect.

00;07;09;07 - 00;07;28;14
Unknown
The same with browsing a computer or using a computer, or using my phone, because I've just memorized how it works. And that plays a big role and a lot of consistency in terms of technology. Oh, interesting. So what about other aspects of your waking life? Do you feel like your dreams are pretty consistent with your experiences, or do you have like bizarre, weird dream?

00;07;28;16 - 00;07;44;25
Unknown
I mean, a lot of bizarre, weird dream situations, like, for example, just last week you walk into an elevator and then all the late the braille labels on the buttons just keep changing. That's that happens to me every so often. And just to practice Japanese. Last night I wasn't lucid in this, but I was sitting on a train I think was supposed to be a Shinkansen.

00;07;44;26 - 00;08;03;20
Unknown
Then I was practicing Japanese with somebody just a little bit that I've been trying to learn, and I've had a whole bunch of random stuff happen and dreams, everything from like outer space, cool sci fi to just being in places. I've never been to. Fantasy author. It's just like I had all sorts of weird dreams that are really fun in that sense.

00;08;03;20 - 00;08;20;08
Unknown
But I can get a lot of things, like if I'm dreaming about something that is from waking life, like my house, for example. The layout of my house almost never changes. In fact, it only changes a couple, like in some specific way sometimes, but it's very consistent. And then false awakenings. When I'm lucid, it's pretty consistent. I've had that.

00;08;20;09 - 00;08;37;28
Unknown
One of the issues I had in the beginning was actually trying to change it, because I had issues expecting things to be different, so I had to come up with my way of doing that. But using my iPhone is pretty consistent for the most part, or using my laptop. I was, for example, trying to book an accommodation on an Amtrak train on my phone in a dream last night.

00;08;37;28 - 00;08;55;23
Unknown
And so the weird glitch thing happened in terms of it was changing the train number because I didn't have that memorized or the app I was using, but the actual mechanics of how my phone worked with VoiceOver, that was consistent the entire time. That's interesting. So it's kind of like the things that are solidified in your brain that you know will work well.

00;08;55;23 - 00;09;17;21
Unknown
It's like your confidence in those things plays a big role in its ability to work well in your dream. It's put the confidence in the fact that I have the strongest association for how to work, because I've been using this specific technology for like 12 years and memorizing how it works, and then having that just be ingrained to an instinctual level is where I have this instinctual expectation of this is how it's supposed to work, and if it doesn't, I've got a problem.

00;09;17;26 - 00;09;32;19
Unknown
And then that just translates into my dreams. I know how this thing works. I pick it up. It does exactly what I tell it to do, and when it breaks, I usually know what's going wrong or what the issue is and how to get around it. All that kind of stuff. Yeah. Interesting. So what are your triggers for lucidity?

00;09;32;19 - 00;09;50;25
Unknown
And like when you do get lucid, like what kinds of things do you like to do? They can be the most random things. Sometimes I'll just know it'll be like a little click. I'll just go. I'll be walking down the hallway like two nights ago. I had done up my practice and I was messing around with something, and then I just started walking down a hallway and I was like, hang on, I'm dreaming.

00;09;50;25 - 00;10;03;27
Unknown
And then I was like, you know what? I haven't flown in a while, so let's try to do that. And then I tried to get a face to earth position and landed on the floor, and I was like, you know what? My old standby jumped through the ceiling. And then I did that and then I started flying around, and I got horizontal on the barrels and a couple loops.

00;10;03;27 - 00;10;20;18
Unknown
And so, like, I hadn't done reverse skydiving in a long time, actually flew up and intercepted a sister and had the longest of these kind of like flying dreams I think I've ever had. I got into the plane and it was really fun because there was a pilot in there, and she acted just like you'd expect anyone to react if you boarded their airplane.

00;10;20;18 - 00;10;37;07
Unknown
They were flying at several thousand feet. You just climbed in through the door. This is like, am I dead? And I was like, this is just my lucid dream. Everything's okay. That's fine. And so I had a lot of fun with that. That was the most fun game I've had in the last week. Was that one from a couple days ago.

00;10;37;12 - 00;10;57;15
Unknown
So. So, yeah, they can be bizarre sometimes. They'll be clearly noticed something. Hey, I noticed this weird thing. Hey, this doesn't make any sense. I'm dreaming or it'll just be something. We'll just click like it was more in the old days of me noticing something specific going here that's not right, and then realizing it was a dream. And then as I continued practicing, a lot of times it would just click, hey, this is a dream.

00;10;57;22 - 00;11;13;01
Unknown
It would just click. I wouldn't necessarily notice the specific thing. Like for example, the hallway I was walking in when I got lucid. That wasn't a place I've ever been before. I don't even know what that place was exactly supposed to be, or where I was going, or what I was supposed to be doing there. And I can find dream signs looking back on that like, what exactly is this place?

00;11;13;01 - 00;11;30;17
Unknown
How do we get there and all that? But I just realized I just knew in the moment, hey, I'm dreaming and just continued to do the things I wanted to do, which turned into something pretty fun. Yeah, I think it's cool how after a while when you get used to being lucid, I have that too, where I just kind of know sometimes, like I don't need anything to specifically trigger me to become lucid.

00;11;30;17 - 00;11;55;16
Unknown
I'm just like, I recognize the feeling of being in a dream. And I think the more lucid dreams you have, like, the more you need to get used to that. So I think that's cool too. I'm also curious, like Skyfall, where do you stand in terms of like, understanding the science and the spirituality of dreams? Like, do you think lucid dreams and dreams in general is something that arises internally from within us, or do you think there's an element of something beyond us that we access?

00;11;55;16 - 00;12;12;11
Unknown
I am take the more scientific approach, more logic based, more like everything has an explanation. If you search hard enough, you'll find it in terms of. I think there's a way you can explain how all these things in James where you can find ways to understand them. And I'm not too big into like the spiritual side of things.

00;12;12;11 - 00;12;31;00
Unknown
I prefer more like the I like to rationalize how everything works, and I like to understand it and have a logical development. That's how I approach the dreaming. I can understand that something is out of place, and I usually I can understand that. In fact, in a dream I approach dream control the same way. My perception of what I'm experiencing is ultimately what dictates what I experience.

00;12;31;04 - 00;12;48;00
Unknown
And by changing my perception, I change the experience. I can, oftentimes in my dreams, sort of trace why I dreaming about a specific thing, including some really bizarre examples, like the example that came up in the Flying Dream. One example of that is the Cessna 172. Why did I come across a Cessna once that was supposed to be?

00;12;48;00 - 00;13;02;09
Unknown
Well, I've actually flown in those planes multiple times before, and I thought it would be really fun to actually fly one of them. And so I ended up in one. I've been in those funny times, and it was a kind of small plane that I'd be like, yeah, that'd be kind of fun to get into. And you know why?

00;13;02;09 - 00;13;17;00
Unknown
The pilot said she was flying out of a specific airport, but that's my home airport that I use, and so it's pretty obvious where that one came from. And so I can kind of trace these things to or I can pick out where, like a certain element might be or why that might, might be in my spot and stuff like that.

00;13;17;00 - 00;13;36;25
Unknown
So I kind of take the logical approach. I think that our dreams are reflections of our own minds, and maybe we don't understand exactly everything that goes into that yet, but I think we can. I think that science will reveal to us a pretty good understanding of things. And, you know, we'll just get more questions with deeper things as they go on, because that's typically how scientific discovery works.

00;13;37;00 - 00;13;52;03
Unknown
But I think we will understand a lot more in the future about how dreams and dreaming work, and we'll be able to have with a whole host of new questions. We'll also be able to then explain a lot of things that we didn't know. Yeah, true. I think it's just the beginning, really. And dreams are cool. I think we do.

00;13;52;03 - 00;14;14;10
Unknown
Obviously, we know that we dream about the things in our daily life processing memories, storing things in our brain, coming up with creative solutions like about the things that we're already thinking of and experiencing. And even if we don't realize it, maybe, you know, things that we hear in passing or see in our peripherals, or we don't even realize that we pick up on just walking down the street because we're not conscious of everything.

00;14;14;17 - 00;14;34;24
Unknown
Maybe some people more than others, but I think that can contribute to our dream content as well. So maybe some people don't realize truly how much we're taking in all the time. So I know you like to make content online and, talk about lucid dreaming and that kind of stuff. Is that kind of like what you're into, like teaching people about lucid dreaming or the kind of like, what's your goal within the community?

00;14;34;27 - 00;14;55;07
Unknown
What I goals in the community are really want to teach people about lots of dreaming. I really do enjoy going out there and just talking to random strangers. Anybody about lucid dreaming, I'll I'll ask random people I beat on the street. I'll ask somebody I'm sitting next to on a plane. I'll ask somebody I've run into at an amusement park or at a restaurant, like if I'm sitting near it.

00;14;55;08 - 00;15;10;01
Unknown
Depending on the situation, ask just a lot of people. Have you ever heard of it? Or if anyone is interested, I'll tell them about it. And I'm very much like to help people whenever I can. And so in a situation where I have taken time to try to learn things, I like to be able to pass those on to others.

00;15;10;01 - 00;15;28;15
Unknown
And so being out there to be able to teach other people about lucid dreaming has been something I really enjoyed doing. I feel like I can contribute to the progress of other people and contribute to the community in that way. I'm also really interested in the ongoing discovery of knowledge related to lucid dreaming and researching it, and seeing how I think about how things work.

00;15;28;15 - 00;15;46;14
Unknown
I think it's really cool to kind of think, I think it'd be really fun to be involved with and so that's kind of where where my personal interest is in terms of lucid dreaming and the community as a whole. I'm kind of in the same boat. Like, I love keeping up with the research and getting involved when possible, but I do think it's cool to just normalize talking about dreams.

00;15;46;14 - 00;16;02;17
Unknown
I need to work on my social anxiety and get like you, and just spark up a conversation with strangers about their dreams. I've actually been wanting to, like, make a sign and just go walk through the public park being like, have you ever had a lucid dream? And like making YouTube videos of like, random strangers answering these questions?

00;16;02;17 - 00;16;18;09
Unknown
Or like, do you think dreams have meaning? Which are two questions that I would love to just ask people, like, what's your take on dreams? And have you ever been lucid? And then that just kind of gets people going, like if it's like, oh, I had this weird dream once and I never get to talk about it, or like, oh, I had a lucid dream, and I didn't know that there was all these possibilities.

00;16;18;09 - 00;16;43;21
Unknown
Like, people didn't even know that, like, hey, it's okay to talk about this stuff. So I think it's good to normalize that, you know what? You could make like a little series of that as heard on the street or a scene on the street and do like a little dream questionnaire series and then just do it in the various cities you go to visit it, make like a little series of, hey, I visited this city, let's go out and find a public area and see what do people think or know about lucid dreaming.

00;16;43;25 - 00;17;04;03
Unknown
And you can take it different ways. You can take it like the do you think your dreams have been dude that way? Or have you ever had a lucid dream? Or you could also just gauge the general level of awareness of how do you ever heard of lucid dreaming? Or what do you think it is if you have the last person I asked that question to gave me the default inaccurate response of thinking that it's about controlling your dreams.

00;17;04;03 - 00;17;18;28
Unknown
Yeah, it's a person who was helping me on graduation, had a marshall help me make sure I got where I need to go and graduation. And as graduation ceremonies go, I just graduated college this weekend. There is about 15 minutes where you're actually doing stuff in about two hours, where you're either sitting and waiting or standing and waiting.

00;17;19;04 - 00;17;33;00
Unknown
And so this is during the hour and 45 minutes of us standing and waiting. And I just ended up talking to her about lucid dreaming. And she gave me the answer that most people give me. And that's you said it's about controlling your dreams. And it's the kind of thing that it's. A lot of people don't really know what it is.

00;17;33;00 - 00;17;54;15
Unknown
And when you find someone who actually knows what was dreaming is that's kind of a rarity. And it's really interesting when you do find someone who actually knows what it is. Yeah, I get so excited when somebody is like a seasoned, lucid dreamer. It's fun. But, you know, I also, like you said, I think it's a great idea to just get in the community because coming up with those misconceptions and things, it's a great opportunity to teach people about what lucidity really is.

00;17;54;17 - 00;18;18;19
Unknown
And that's a very common one that I hear a lot is people thinking it's controlling your dreams. And, you know, it's interesting because I was just reading like a book or an article the other day about how when they first started defining these terms and stuff, there were some researchers or practitioners that thought that the criteria should be more than just awareness, because it's such a spectrum, which I think I'm kind of going with the idea that the awareness is the baseline of criteria for lucidity.

00;18;18;19 - 00;18;30;14
Unknown
And we've had streams where we've talked about this before. So I know you kind of know where this is going. Yeah. You know, and then it's like then you have the lucidity where you're fully aware where your body is sleeping and you're aware of what you have to do in the next day. And what you're going to eat for breakfast.

00;18;30;14 - 00;18;51;18
Unknown
And you're fully aware of your waking life while in this lucid dream. And then there's dreams where you know that it's a dream, but you can't really control anything, and you're not really fully conscious of yourself. And then there's all these different levels of lucidity. So like, I don't know, do you think that there should be kind of a hard criteria for it, or do you think we should let it be loose with kind of just like the baseline of awareness?

00;18;51;20 - 00;19;10;19
Unknown
I've always described lucid dreaming, and you probably know where this is going to be because we've had these conversations before. Yeah, but I describe it as a dimmer switch. There is a point where it's off, there's a point where it's on, but within the point where it's on, it can be really bright. It can be really dim. It could be anywhere in the middle.

00;19;10;21 - 00;19;31;06
Unknown
There's all sorts. But one thing I do is I do divorce. The awareness aspect in knowing and being aware that you're dreaming. Be conscious and like the amount of awareness that you can have a dream with the control aspect, because I see those as being separate skills, and one of those is being based on your state perception, like being able to perceive the state that you're in and accurately determine what you are experiencing any given moment.

00;19;31;06 - 00;19;46;26
Unknown
Am I dreaming, am I way? And then how much of that access to waking memory do you have? Okay, I know I'm dreaming and I know I've got this thing going on. Or I know I'm dreaming. And I know I have these specific goals that I want to accomplish, which is kind of where I was connecting. I wasn't thinking about my waking life, by the way.

00;19;47;01 - 00;19;59;14
Unknown
I had this thing that I've I've really enjoyed doing before that's been like my first ever dream goal. It's like I've only done it a couple times. This is a great opportunity. Why not do it again, that kind of thing. Or you have these really, you know, lower awareness. And like I realized I'm going to dream. Don't really do anything with it.

00;19;59;14 - 00;20;17;07
Unknown
Don't really remember to do much with it or like the really super high ones. It's like, you know, it's a dream. You're realizing that you got stuff going on. You know, that you have to wake up. You remember very specific things that you decided you wanted to do the night before, that kind of stuff. And then control is controlling how you perceive the controlling how you perceive the experience that you're having.

00;20;17;13 - 00;20;39;20
Unknown
And I see that in a separate way because you can have really low awareness, lucid dreams with good dream control, really high awareness is achieved with good dream control. And you can have both the opposite way as well. And I kind of see those as being separate things because you're engaging with what kind of separate aspects, separate skills in a way, when you're trying to train how you believe and how you expect things to happen and how you perceive the environment that you're in.

00;20;39;20 - 00;21;02;03
Unknown
And the other is you're training yourself to be able to understand what sort of experience you're having. So I kind of see those separately. Yeah, that makes sense. I think it's good to just kind of not be too rigid with it, and to have different types of dreams and different classifications for yourself. Criteria can be helpful, but sometimes it can also be limiting because every dream can look so different and everybody is different as well.

00;21;02;03 - 00;21;21;16
Unknown
So yeah, I try not to stress about labeling too much. I can totally see that. And of course that's the whole aspect of like pre lucid but not quite lucid. And then also the other thing that a lot of people get into debates over is can you have dream control without being lucid. And I would say unequivocally, yes, absolutely.

00;21;21;16 - 00;21;38;11
Unknown
You can control the environment that you're in the situation with that, without knowing that it's a dream. You can have control over it. I've, the, the probably the most common example I side of me not being lucid and exercising a pretty decent degree of control is the example where I literally had a scene in a dream that didn't go the way I wanted to.

00;21;38;16 - 00;21;58;19
Unknown
I rewound time, repeated it, and made it go the way I wanted it to go with all without knowing that I was dreaming. Yeah, which is funny because that is such a dream. Sign right there like that could never happen. But that has happened to me too, where I'm just like doing these super powers and I feel like it's kind of a pre lucid thing for me sometimes because I'm making lucid decisions.

00;21;58;19 - 00;22;14;11
Unknown
But I think it's waking life and I just wanted the dream to go my way. Or I have maybe I'm flying or I change the scene, but it's not out of lucidity. It's more so out of confidence and or stress, even where I'm just like, no, I want the dream to go this way, even though I don't know that it's a dream.

00;22;14;11 - 00;22;29;28
Unknown
Which is kind of hard to explain. But yeah, some people call it a power dream. I just want this thing to happen a certain way, like I'm escaping from a starship. Like I had a Star Wars Star Trek kind of dream last night where I was like a Star Trek inspired ship with a dark side Star Wars cult on it that was like chasing me.

00;22;29;28 - 00;22;48;26
Unknown
And I'd supposedly started, you know, my life on that ship or whatever. And then I was like, okay, I want to from these guys. And so I just separated. So I just, you know, operated somewhere else and like, okay, mission done. Carry on. Why can't we have this control and waking. Yeah, yeah. If you haven't quite mastered the little things like teleportation yet.

00;22;48;28 - 00;23;16;25
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah I will say is. So, you know, speaking of waking life, what is your general awareness like in waking life? Like, do you feel like it correlates with your dream awareness? I'd say probably it definitely can and does vary depending on the situation, depending on what I'm doing. Some times where I'll be actively focused or hyper aware about specific things, or actually just trying to pay attention and observe everything that I'm experiencing or know doing or noticing and all that stuff.

00;23;16;27 - 00;23;38;16
Unknown
So definitely sometimes where I'm a little bit more, it's a little bit more internal or I'm doing other things. Kind of depends like right now I'm listening to myself talk and I can hear a TV through the wall behind me, kind of feel the the sensations of my chair and the, you know, table. My arm is laying on and all that kind of stuff.

00;23;38;16 - 00;24;01;09
Unknown
So. So yeah, it really can vary. Sometimes I'm more, more aware of what what I'm experiencing that other times. And then, you know, I, you know, sometimes I'll just stop and think about what I'm doing. It can honestly vary from day to day. These last few weeks have been in a pretty stressful with, you know, the last paper, my capstone paper, trying to get that finished and finally getting done with with university and all that.

00;24;01;09 - 00;24;19;12
Unknown
So now that that's kind of over, I've, you know, been a bit more free to think about other things. And yeah, it's been kind of nice. And so it's like it can't it can honestly, I'd say possibly. It really depends. Some of my dreams are just like really busy. They got a lot going on. So a lot of my dreams can be pretty busy and have a lot going on.

00;24;19;19 - 00;24;42;01
Unknown
And sometimes it's easy to get distracted, just like in waking life with, you know, things that go on like that in dreams. And so basically, it's sometimes my dreams, I when I've gotten lucid, I found that in like a lot of the lucid dreams that I've had there, and not all of them. But like in some of them, I can clearly tell there's not a whole lot going on in some of the the dreams that I've actually, you know, got lucid like that whole way from a couple days ago.

00;24;42;05 - 00;25;10;15
Unknown
I was just walking along. There might have been a couple other people in it. I wasn't talking to anybody. There wasn't really anything going on, and I realized that I was in a dream. I've also kind of I did experiments on myself a couple of years ago now. Like, gosh, I need to go back and dig up what exact dates because I logged the dates of the exact times I did these, but I was using my phone to try like a very untargeted form of our audio audio incorporation using Sirius XM.

00;25;10;17 - 00;25;25;19
Unknown
And I had a little bit of fun doing it, and I can tell that some nights when I wouldn't really notice it versus some nights that I would, the times where I wasn't noticing it was like I was in a crowd of people, or I was talking to someone, I was doing other things. So there was there was just other stuff going on.

00;25;25;25 - 00;25;48;16
Unknown
And the times I noticed it were like, oh, I'm having a false like it's nothing else in this room. And then kind of like that, you know what I mean? And so I think it kind of varies. I think that does have a bit of an impact. Yeah, I think that's pretty standard for most people as well. But I have noticed, you know, once people get into a lucid dreaming practice, they naturally start to just be more mindful and aware throughout the day because it's something you kind of have to start to think about.

00;25;48;19 - 00;26;10;08
Unknown
So you mentioned something earlier that made me want to ask you, have you experimented with, like any dream technology wristbands, headbands? I know you said you were tracking your sleep recently. What's that experience? So am I experimenting with any wearable technology for, dreaming? If you had asked me this before last Thursday, I would have said no.

00;26;10;10 - 00;26;33;10
Unknown
Since you're asking me after last Thursday, I'll say yes. I am currently experimenting with Apple Watch and sleep tracking, but I'm really looking forward to more properly testing out the Dream Director app's ability to, By the way, shout out to the, makers of Dream Director because their app is pretty cool. Now that I finally got a phone, an Apple Watch that can support it.

00;26;33;12 - 00;26;54;23
Unknown
I've only come across one accessibility issue with it so far, and that was, you know, related to like one kind of grouping thing where it was found instead of just building where it was supposed to. But it's you have to train it for eight days. And I'm literally in the middle of that training period before I can actually try to experiment with it and see if there, rim detection is is pretty solid.

00;26;54;23 - 00;27;13;05
Unknown
So I'll be interested. Doctor Ken Leslie is the one responsible for that. So shout out to Doctor Tim Leslie, I don't know if you, watch this podcast and it's you happened to this is the blind person you talk to. See. When did you set this? Yeah, I would be honored if they did. Listen, maybe I'll reach out.

00;27;13;05 - 00;27;34;00
Unknown
I think it's cool to hear about new apps and stuff. That. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for listening. Hey. So interesting. How does it track REM? I know that a lot of watches use, like, your heart rate and stuff. Do you know if there's another way? Yeah, I'm not sure exactly how it does it, but I do know that the Apple Watch does have a lot of built ins and sensors.

00;27;34;00 - 00;27;55;18
Unknown
For example, they have, you know, ECG accelerometers at Dynamic Range gyroscope. They have different optical and electrical, heart rate sensors, I believe, as well as, thermometers. They can track a bunch of different things. I'm not sure exactly how their sleep algorithm works. I haven't actually dug into all that specifically, but I know that just like with the Fitbit stuff, they can monitor quite a lot of stuff.

00;27;55;21 - 00;28;14;06
Unknown
Apple doesn't distinguish between anyone into like sleep. It just calls it core sleep. And it has that all that in one category. But it does have a distinction for deep sleep, which is in three and four REM periods, which is kind of cool because we talk about like how REM periods get longer the beginning of the night, like I noticed just over the past couple days.

00;28;14;06 - 00;28;29;14
Unknown
Okay, well, my first one might be like 7 to 10 minutes and then I get them up over 30 minutes, you know, depending on the night. And so it is kind of cool to look at those and go, yeah, this is this is interesting. I can kind of track where this is going. I could see what nights I've had, you know, better sleep than other nights.

00;28;29;14 - 00;28;47;19
Unknown
It's it's kind of fun to play with it just to see how it all works. I don't know all the details behind how their specific algorithm works. I'm definitely interested in how their sleep detection works, but I know they have a lot of sensors built into these things. They're designed for fitness as well, and for all sorts of athletic related activities.

00;28;47;19 - 00;29;06;27
Unknown
So it's designed to be able to detect a wide degree of stuff. So I know they have quite a bit of technology built into these applications, which is amazing. Yeah. That's cool. I've also been experimenting with sleep tracking and stuff. And I found that interesting because I would notice that sometimes I would wake up from a lucid dream and I wasn't necessarily in rem.

00;29;07;03 - 00;29;26;26
Unknown
And I know these things aren't perfect, but, I know there's a lot of new research about lucid dreams being able to happen outside of REM, although most of my lucid dreams do happen in my longer later REM periods like between 6 and 7 a.m., that's when I have like maybe 90% of my lucid dreams. Have you noticed any patterns there with yours?

00;29;26;26 - 00;29;44;05
Unknown
So that's pretty par for the course, I'd say. I do have most of my lucid dreams within the last couple hours of my sleep. That's pretty normal. Like, for example, I had the last one that I recorded from a couple of nights ago was literally the last. I think the last REM period before I woke up. But somewhere right around that area.

00;29;44;08 - 00;29;59;15
Unknown
And so that's that's pretty straightforward. I notice most of the ones that I tend to get tend to be later on when I sleep. It is always really fun when you get the early night with Syd, it's like, I've only been asleep for how long? What time is it? It's always fun when you get the early night ones.

00;29;59;15 - 00;30;20;24
Unknown
Like the first hour. Yeah. So even some of those, it is kind of interesting to think, like, I, I would be willing to bet that possibly slept in and out of like maybe into and won and you know, during that one because it's kind of it kind of felt like it might have like faded in and out in a couple of moments, but I'm not sure if that was actually be changing out of sleep stages or if it was just something related to how I was expecting things to happen.

00;30;20;24 - 00;30;38;25
Unknown
But because I'm, I have a pretty deep expectation that that particular dream ended in a false awakening. Because then I have another dream that basically runs like a false awake. And it's basically I kind of thing. I might have all been one, one whole dream because it was, at least according to my watch, it was a 23 minute REM period.

00;30;38;25 - 00;30;55;06
Unknown
And I guarantee you that that music that I had wasn't all 23 minutes of it. So I'm pretty sure that the dream afterwards was basically false awakening. So if it's saying I didn't actually wake up during that time, then I'm pretty sure that that was probably a false awakening. It's kind of cool. So to consider all this. Yeah, that is cool.

00;30;55;06 - 00;31;11;09
Unknown
It does gets confusing sometimes because I remember when I was doing this study in the lab at northwestern, I couldn't tell at one point if I was lucid or if I was just waking up because I thought, like, you know, it was kind of a false awakening. I was like, oh, I'm in a dream. But then I thought, oh, I must have woken up.

00;31;11;09 - 00;31;32;07
Unknown
But then when I woke up, actually, and they were like, no, you were still like in REM. I was like, oh, really? Like I thought I was awake. So it's kind of like confusing. It's like when that kind of stuff happens. It's it's pretty funny. My, my second ever lucid dream was basically like that. I had it was, it was a whole chain of false awakenings and I didn't really know a bunch about false awakenings at the time.

00;31;32;07 - 00;31;52;02
Unknown
I was just just starting to learn. But considering I had just gone through like several dream periods of me being in my room and just like different scenes switching between them, I should have caught on that. Maybe this isn't what it was after the fact, but I had this lucid. It was really fun kind of thing. And then I, quote unquote woke up, walked around the room was like really late.

00;31;52;03 - 00;32;18;27
Unknown
I was really excited. I was like, I can't wait to share all this. Is that everyone? And then I woke up and it's like, oh, crap. That's when it's, yes. So yeah. So it's always funny when that happens. Yeah. False awakenings can be very frustrating. I've had them, you know, my whole life pretty much. Which I also think is interesting like that you started lucid dreaming, you know, as an adult and you kind of started, you know, just teaching yourself.

00;32;18;29 - 00;32;35;18
Unknown
My experience is so different. As you know, I've been lucid dreaming since I was like a child, so it kind of came naturally to me. I find it interesting how there's kind of like two types of people. But, you know, I want you to kind of give some hope to people that haven't had a lucid dream in their adult life, or they're just kind of starting, like, anybody can learn this, right?

00;32;35;18 - 00;32;57;22
Unknown
Like, what was that like for you starting from zero? Yeah. Well, it was pretty interesting because like, I wasn't I didn't know a lot. And like a lot of people who were starting lucid dreaming, I ended up in a space, let's just say, shall we say, maybe not a specific content source that was known for its veracity. And that's kind of how I started.

00;32;57;22 - 00;33;11;11
Unknown
I started having no clue what I was doing, and what I was kind of looking to hopefully find was a group of people. I was looking for a community that would, you know, help me sort of underst, you know, kind of learn about it. And I was trying to find people I could learn from. Well, I end up in an, in an online community.

00;33;11;16 - 00;33;27;28
Unknown
And it was like the Wild West, I, I didn't know who actually knew what they're talking about. I don't think most people there did at the time. But then I found a particular person, Brandon, and say, you know who you are? Who? I was immediately able to determine that actually, he was one of the only people was able to answer.

00;33;27;28 - 00;33;46;29
Unknown
One of the questions I had was actually Doctor Laboratories book. That first got me on to the realization that, hey, a lot of the stuff I've been hearing wasn't exactly correct. Hey, if someone can't tell me what my all this and, they weren't able to answer these, the question that I was like, you know, I've read this wonderful lucid dreaming.

00;33;47;01 - 00;34;04;13
Unknown
This is how doctor LaBarge, the supposed creator of the technique, will guess. The creator of the technique describes how to do it. This how this person is saying how to do it. Okay. Who's right? And then people could actually answer the question. And that's how I began to learn who knew something about it and who didn't. That was kind of how I started that.

00;34;04;13 - 00;34;26;10
Unknown
I found the guy who had been basically lucid dreaming for eight years, who taught me a lot of stuff, introduced me to his friends, and I basically took off from there was almost like an apprenticeship of sorts. I had the ability to benefit from someone else's experience and knowledge, and I think that's a great way to learn. Just about any skill is to find someone who can teach you a skill, who has been doing it for a long time, has had success, who's experimented with a lot of stuff.

00;34;26;12 - 00;34;51;26
Unknown
You kind of understand a bit about it. Not kind of, but like definitely understands a bit about it and can kind of teach you and help you learn and bounce ideas off of each other and all that kind of stuff, like any good mentor should be able to do. And so I kind of learned almost as an apprentice in that, in that sense of the term where I was learning both from, like reading different things that people had written, and also just actually talking to a couple of specific people.

00;34;51;29 - 00;35;13;25
Unknown
Yeah, that makes sense. There's so much information out there, you know, it's important to find people who know what they're talking about. But even with lucid dreaming and dreams, like there's so many different opinions out there, different terminologies for the same type of thing or technique, you know, different perspectives. And, you know, even people that know what they're talking about, the what works for them might not work for somebody else.

00;35;13;25 - 00;35;30;28
Unknown
So it's really important to kind of just like find your own way and do a lot of research and kind of see what works for each individual person as well. Well, all right, what else should we talk about? Do you have any questions that you want to bring up. Or maybe we can kind of wrap up a little bit or share a dream or something?

00;35;31;00 - 00;35;54;28
Unknown
Well, I was wondering if you've had any, interesting lucid dreams. I have let me pull up my dream journal really quick. I've had like 2 or 3 lucid dreams so far in this month, which is pretty good. They were both kind of basic though. Like my I haven't really been doing much with my lucidity lately, so in one of them, like I was at my old school very common dream sign for me.

00;35;55;02 - 00;36;13;07
Unknown
And like a fight breaks out and that's another lucidity. Trigger for me is like scary or stressful situations. So I'm like, oh my god, like these high school kids are like fighting. So I immediately became lucid and I was like, okay, I don't want to deal with that. So I just like flew away. And I flew on to the rooftop and I couldn't think of what I wanted to do.

00;36;13;07 - 00;36;32;08
Unknown
So I literally just sat there and took deep breaths and like, meditated, which is kind of boring, I guess. But it's kind of I like to share these things with people because you don't always have to do something like extravagant, like you can just observe and take in the dream. And it was so very therapeutic. And then in the other one, I was with my brother, who is not a lucid dreamer.

00;36;32;14 - 00;36;47;09
Unknown
And I was telling him like, hey, you're in my dream. Like, look what I can do. I was like changing my outfits and flying around. And he was kind of skeptical, which represents like his attitude about it in waking life. So he was like, I don't know, I don't really believe you. And I was like, no, really work.

00;36;47;09 - 00;37;02;18
Unknown
We're in a dream. And I know a lot of people say like, oh, don't tell people you're dreaming. But for me, it just depends. Like sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Yeah, just going off of that. Like I said a couple nights ago, in that lucid dream that I had, I just climb into this person's plane out of the air and it's like, yeah, it's just my lucid dream.

00;37;02;18 - 00;37;26;21
Unknown
Nothing to worry about. I like taking that casual press with just telling characters that I'm dreaming, because again, it really comes down to a lot of that perception based dream control and sort of the whole taboo that comes up around it. And what are the circumstances and expectations that people have and all that kind of stuff. And, and I've always had a strong association of my dreams as being safe, as being something that nothing's going to hurt me.

00;37;26;24 - 00;37;51;14
Unknown
Yeah, that makes a big difference. I hate all the fear online that is being spread. Sometimes people saying don't do this in a dream, don't do that. I'm sure you've heard it too. Like it happens a lot. And that just plays a role in how what we expect to happen. And even if you have positive expectations and good thoughts, like sometimes dreams react in weird ways, or the dream characters don't react in a way that is favorable, and then that's just part of the dream.

00;37;51;14 - 00;38;08;11
Unknown
Sometimes it has a mind of its own. I don't know. Yeah, it's a lot of fun when that happens. I also really do love getting some of those ironic dreams sometimes. Like especially ironic in the sense, like, you really should have realized you were dreaming when you were teaching an entire high school class about lucid dreaming and you're not in high school.

00;38;08;13 - 00;38;25;18
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. It's always so frustrating when I wake up and I'm like, how did I not know that was a dream? Like, that is the most weird group of people or most random situation ever. For me, it's just funny. I just take humor. I just make light of those kind of things. I find it funny. I was like, yeah, I all this thing.

00;38;25;18 - 00;38;43;25
Unknown
And, he couldn't realize in that moment that I was in a dream. Okay, chalk it up to. Okay, this is funny. Better luck next time and go for it again. And yeah, I kind of take that approach with those because some of those situations can be really funny. And yeah, especially when you look back on it, the irony is sometimes pretty hilarious.

00;38;43;27 - 00;39;01;22
Unknown
Yeah. And I know there's like a neuroscience explanation for why our logical part of our brain is kind of shut down. So we're not able to like, pick up on seemingly obvious situations. Anyways, I was also curious, do you write your dreams down or do any techniques or like, what's your practice? Like? You're just kind of winging it these days.

00;39;01;22 - 00;39;22;04
Unknown
I know you've been busy with school and all my normal practice. I tend to take a pretty mild approach to how I do lucid dreaming 100% intended. So I do all my dreams in Microsoft Word on my computer. I do it mostly for record keeping rather than record, because if I have to think about my dreams and pay attention to them, I can typically remember them pretty well through the day.

00;39;22;04 - 00;39;37;08
Unknown
It does vary from team to dream day. It really depends. I thought about the lucid dream that I had the whole day. I think I drove that would mid day, so it really depends. Sometimes a drone in the evening, sometimes you drop in the morning, sometimes a journal the mid day. I think that one I journal mid day and ended up writing 507 words.

00;39;37;14 - 00;39;53;24
Unknown
I can tell you exactly when I wrote that, because basically a few pages of dream journals like that one dream I wrote down was 507 words, and it wasn't even, I think probably the longest one of the night is just the best. Remember, it really does vary. Sometimes I like I'll listen if I don't think about it too much in the day, and that's pretty normal.

00;39;54;00 - 00;40;17;19
Unknown
Sometimes I'll journal them earlier, sometimes I turn later, but I'm not really necessarily doing it for recall, so I'm not advising anyone to do what I do in terms of journaling them. I'm doing it more as a matter of record keeping because I can typically remember them decently, at least for a short time. But I'm journaling them in order to actually be able to go back and review them at some point later if I actually choose to, which I will do from time to time, I'll go back and pick one and go look at it and then review a certain day.

00;40;17;26 - 00;40;39;03
Unknown
But it kind of varies. I do record them and then my actual induction practice. While this might prefer approach, and I really like the way Doctor Christina Market does it, her approach I think, is awesome. I do that whole thing I go through for my dreams are multiples of them. Our script, them. I'll imagine how they could have been lucid or if they were lucid, I'll imagine how they could have been better, or maybe what I could have done instead of what I actually did.

00;40;39;03 - 00;40;55;07
Unknown
And I'd still say I don't remember a dream goal, or I wanted to do something I didn't or didn't take full advantage of the situation. Sometimes off script to lucid dreaming, I'll go, okay, I could have done this. And then of course not lucid dreams and I'll go kind of the same way. I could have recognized this specific thing as a dream sign, or this thing that didn't happen.

00;40;55;07 - 00;41;19;18
Unknown
I'll pick out the dream signs. You can make a game out of finding dream signs. It can be pretty interesting. Sometimes you just go, okay, how many things were out of place in this specific dream? Like, for example, I'll go through one of the dreams I had last night, the one that was better. Remember, for some reason, I'm booking an Amtrak ticket that goes directly from Chicago to my home city, which is impossible to do because there are no routes that take that dream sign number one, the train number was changing between 75 and 28, and it's not consistent.

00;41;19;18 - 00;41;39;19
Unknown
Dream sign number two I'm trying to book an upgrade. Well, both on the train and not on the train at the same time. Jinx and number three. We're also trying to book an Amtrak upgrade through the Uber app, Dream Sign number four, and also finding, like booking into someone else's room where there's already four people booked into a room that could barely hold two in sign number five.

00;41;39;25 - 00;41;56;14
Unknown
I think you get the idea. So I can kind of pick these out and go, okay, how could I realize that this is a dream? Okay, well, let me think about this. Let's say I'm in the Uber app and I'm going okay with the train number change from 75 to 28. And I'm trying to book an Amtrak upgrade through an Uber app, and it's supposedly only going to cost me $50 or something that only cost a thousand.

00;41;56;21 - 00;42;16;13
Unknown
Okay, that's a huge dream I should definitely recognize. Hey, this is a dream. Wherever I am standing in that moment, okay? I'm actually dreaming right now. Okay. What is it that I want to do? Let's say I want to go to new Hondas. Okay? I want to go to Japan, and I'll get there by operating. And so I just spin around and I'm standing, let's just say some arbitrary place in Tokyo just randomly doesn't matter.

00;42;16;19 - 00;42;31;20
Unknown
Okay? And then I start walking around, find something I want to do, and then just sort of like repeat that whole kind of thing. So that's kind of a typical mile practice goes and it's kind of fun. Sometimes the dreams can be really interesting to pick things out of and get things from. Yeah that's cool. Yeah, I love that dream.

00;42;31;20 - 00;42;47;29
Unknown
You I was looking through my dream journal as well, and I actually want to share one too. That kind of goes off of some things you were talking about and is actually a dream that you were in. So I searched my journal and I found it. So this is a couple weeks ago. So I was in a cabin with some friends, including you.

00;42;47;29 - 00;43;12;20
Unknown
Skyfall. You were there like some lucid dreaming friends. We're making a pizza and then some, like Kidnapers or like the villain characters comes knocking on the door. They're complaining and they're mad at us because we posted something with local hashtags and we were supposed to go live, but we didn't go live. And then they're mad at us. And so we're nervous and they have guns and they come up to the door and I'm telling everybody like, go hi, like, go to the bedroom.

00;43;12;20 - 00;43;35;13
Unknown
I'll take care of it. I'm trying to call 911 and my phone is glitching. I can't call 911. It's not working. And then I get to the back yard and I realize it's a dream and I'm kind of semi in and out of lucidity. It's like one of those weird in-betweens where I realize it's a dream, but I'm still worried about that scenario and I'm go in and out and then I just fly away and I wake up uneventful, but kind of brings together a lot of the things we talked about today.

00;43;35;13 - 00;43;51;02
Unknown
So good to see you in the dream world and it's really fun. I've dreamt about you that much, but it is kind of cool to hear that other people are redeeming about each other kind of thing. If I dreamed about anyone that I talk to a lot online, not anything recently, but they it sounds like you got lucid.

00;43;51;02 - 00;44;04;19
Unknown
That's almost like a lucid nightmare. This is he got you had a little bit of a night. You're maybe not a full on nightmare, but like a stressed dream or something like that that you got in the part. The analytical part of me is going, like, I can tell you why your phone was glitching. Like, that's the analytical part of me.

00;44;04;25 - 00;44;19;05
Unknown
Like walking around and going like it was glitching because you were, like, afraid of, like the situations you're at are nervous. I'm scared about the situation to read something along those lines. And you're trying to do this thing, you're trying to call the police, and then it's like, it's not going to work. Yeah, it's like fumbling. Yeah, yeah, I can like break that thing.

00;44;19;05 - 00;44;40;10
Unknown
Like, okay, I could probably tell you why that would do it. It makes sense. Yeah. That's the analytical side of me going like, we'll see you. I was like shaky and nervous. So, like, I won't being a representation of a part of me who is also shaky and nervous also. Yeah. Also on the other side of that, it's like you have it, you're trying to do a thing and you're like worrying that something isn't going to work the way it is.

00;44;40;11 - 00;45;09;15
Unknown
And the combination of that and the emotional state and all that just makes it not work the way it's. Yeah, it's interesting because if you juxtapose that on a dream where everything's happy and going fine and things tend to be like work the way they should, and then things get like really crazy. Also, you get things like glitching and things being weird, and all of a sudden you're stuck somewhere or something that's working the way it's like, if I had a dream like that before, where I was trying to use something in the situation and it wasn't working to help.

00;45;09;17 - 00;45;30;19
Unknown
Yeah, that's that's kind of how I look at some of that. Yeah, that makes sense. There's so many different factors contributing to dreams and things in it. We're taking in sensations from the outside world even when we're asleep. So even without realizing it. So I think it's cool and I'm excited to see how science continues to learn more about the function of dreams and what makes up dream content.

00;45;30;19 - 00;45;51;25
Unknown
I think we only have a small picture of the whole small part of the picture, so I'm excited for that. Are you going to be going to the online conference this year at all? Well, I don't know, because half of the what I like to do at this conference, I can't do what I like to do is go network and talk to people in the hospitality suite for like three hours.

00;45;51;28 - 00;46;12;08
Unknown
Yes, people, and bounce ideas off of people and network. That's what I like doing at these kind of things. Yeah, any of that I know. I feel like presentations are cool, but I can just Google what people do and want you to be. And it's the question and answer that. That's the fun part of the presentations to like question, answer and hearing the research.

00;46;12;12 - 00;46;30;12
Unknown
But then after the presentation, going, finding the researcher, if they're one of those kind of people who are open and then talking to them about their ideas for four hours straight, sitting somewhere before you even know who the person is, just talking to them for a long time is fun. I will never forget some of those experiences I had with people like Elliot.

00;46;30;12 - 00;46;47;15
Unknown
Guess who's really amazing? Who I talked to for four hours that first day? Or you know, where I met in the market, for example, I talked to her in the hospitality suite that one day I met Dash there, talk to her several times. Actually, the whole reason I got involved, like getting on the tech for dreaming group in the first place, is because I ran into.

00;46;47;19 - 00;47;02;12
Unknown
So all those people there, that was the whole reason I got involved in that. I met Dash there, and if I hadn't met Dash there, I wouldn't have really gotten into meeting some of those other people. And it's really cool. I feel like the best part of some of these types of conferences or meetings, even the bridge, is also really cool.

00;47;02;18 - 00;47;33;28
Unknown
That was a definitely a highlight for me. But the best part about any of these conferences is the people you meet, the networking opportunities, the chance to exchange ideas and information, to get a chance to kind of know people all about the interpersonal aspect is completely lost when you make something online. And it's what a lot of people have learned because of Covid is education became so impersonal, kind of had a lot of people looking about what did Covid do to the people who were forced to take online classes for a year.

00;47;33;28 - 00;47;56;06
Unknown
They were denied the ability to engage in those kind of social experiences that a lot of people do. And so the kind of that networking that's I've always preferred in school, in-person education to online, like I've never really enjoyed doing online type of courses because you don't have that element of being able to interact with people. You can't go to your professor's office and talk to them for 30 minutes.

00;47;56;06 - 00;48;12;25
Unknown
If you have a problem or you just catch up or you know, there's so many things you just can't do in an online space, which is sad. Yeah, you're so right. And I still encourage people to go to the online, you know, if you want to get involved, but there'll be many more in-person conferences after that. So we'll still make it work.

00;48;12;25 - 00;48;35;25
Unknown
By the way, are they still doing regional conferences or are they not doing those? Yeah, they do regional conferences. I don't know about the East Coast or I haven't heard of any specifically. Maybe the West Coast is better at doing regionals, but I'm on the list for regionals. I haven't heard any of these variants and hearing if there are any regionals that like, especially if there are any regionals that I could possibly attend, I think that would be a lot of fun.

00;48;36;02 - 00;48;53;02
Unknown
That's true. I'm in contact with the one of the regional managers or people, so maybe I'll ask her and I'll let you know. It'd be kind of cool to know if I'm thinking about what I might do this summer or fall, maybe even, I don't know when they host some of these, actually. Yeah, maybe we can host one.

00;48;53;04 - 00;49;08;29
Unknown
That's probably what they're going to say. They're going to be like, well, the host one and I need money. I need I need to find oh yeah, you got to say it's still like a DC regional conference. How about that? Was it like a a DC will combine the southeast and the northeast or honestly DC that would be perfect.

00;49;08;29 - 00;49;27;24
Unknown
Actually they should do that. Oh what a big coincidence that I'm just planning on trying to now, because it has nothing to do with that suggestion. It would be cool. Like objects aside, it would be cool if there was like a regional one to go to somewhere. That would be kind of fun. Okay, yeah, well, I will research that and I will let you know what I discover.

00;49;27;27 - 00;49;50;19
Unknown
Okay. Well, Skyfall, thanks for chatting. It's been fun. Do you have any closing words of advice for lucid dream enthusiasts out there? One thing that comes to mind a lot for me is to don't assume that just because you're not getting the results you want at a specific moment, that you're specifically doing something wrong, because it's a very easy trap to fall into.

00;49;50;19 - 00;50;15;25
Unknown
I'm not doing something correctly. You could perform a practice, do everything correctly. It's still not get loose. And I would even say counted as being successful. Maybe not getting lucid, but at least in doing the practice that you're doing, keeping with your routine, just because you don't get lucid on a particular night, or just because some technique you're trying doesn't work for you on a particular day, or even if that technique just doesn't work for you, it doesn't necessarily mean you're doing it wrong.

00;50;15;25 - 00;50;30;03
Unknown
Now, it could. It could be that, you know, maybe you're you're doing something wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean that just because you don't get lucid that you're doing something wrong. So I think that's an easy trap for people to fall into. Of course, the other one is expecting all of your lucid dreams to be short. It's that's how they start when you begin.

00;50;30;03 - 00;50;48;06
Unknown
So those are two of the big beginner traps I just warned a lot of people against. Yeah, that's good advice. Yeah for sure. It takes some time. Sometimes I tell people not to get frustrated and just fall in love with all your dreams, not just the lucid ones, you know? Open up a general relationship with your dreams and and give it some time.

00;50;48;08 - 00;51;18;28
Unknown
Awesome. Well, Skyfall, thanks for chatting with me. I think that wraps up our episode today. Hopefully it inspires some people and gets the conversation going. And once I get this edited, I will send it over to you. Thank you very much.