EP107: The Gift of the Dream Seer

In this episode, I sit down with Pam Muller: dream coach, content creator, and the voice behind SweetGA Pam on TikTok. Pam is a certified spiritual director and longtime dreamworker who helps people explore the intersection of dreams, spirituality, and emotional healing.

We talk about Pam’s personal journey from a “dark night of the soul” to becoming a dream expert, and how her powerful lucid dream revealed her gift as a dream seer. Pam shares her methods for guiding others in dream interpretation, the importance of active listening, and how dreamwork builds emotional intelligence in both children and adults.

Connect with Pam on TikTok & Instagram at @SweetGAPam, or join her free Mighty Networks community Pam’s Place for dream sharing and resources.

Pam's Links

https://sweetgeorgiapam.com/

https://www.tiktok.com/@sweetgeorgiapam?lang=en

Transcript

Pam Muller
So we all lined up and in my head I'm thinking like, okay, Pam, this is your chance. Your lucid. In a dream, you get one question of this woman, don't mess it up. And I was in a straight panic. I mean, I have I was like, I have not planned one question. What's my question? What? So I'm standing in this line.
It's getting closer and closer and closer to this woman in my head. I'm just like, oh yes, you have one question. Like, figure it out. What are you going to ask? And the person in front of me was, I'm standing in front of this woman who's maybe four foot two. She's so tiny. Step is old, old, wrinkly face.
And I just looked down at her and I said, "what is my gift? What am I supposed to be doing?".......

Amina:
Pam, welcome to the Dream World podcast. I'm excited to have you on this show. And although I do all this promotion for I-s-d and I'm always talking about them and, you know, you're a part of my regional IAC group, which is awesome. I actually found Pam through TikTok. That's how I think I originally first saw your page and then somehow figured out that we were in the same area, which I love.

00;01;30;10 - 00;01;55;28
Unknown
So anyway, welcome to the show. I would love to hear you know your own intro and also like what got you into, you know, dreams and becoming a dream expert. Yeah. So thank you for the introduction. Super excited to connect with you too. I know it's really fun when you find somebody across the internet and then you find out that you're actually regional or you're actually local, and then you can run into them here like pretty exciting.

00;01;55;28 - 00;02;17;10
Unknown
So I feel this thing about you, I mean, so my intro, I guess, is that I'm a dream expert. I am a certified spiritual director. I trained at the Hayden Institute, and I work with people at the intersection of dreams and spirituality. The reason I do is, kind of goes into a little bit of my backstory.

00;02;17;10 - 00;02;52;05
Unknown
It's basically that what I have found is when somebody shares a dream and we get into, like, the juicy good, you know, stuff, then we start to really dig in. Inevitably, once people feel safe sharing a dream, they tend to go, okay, actually, I've never told anybody this, but. And then they share some other encounter that they've had, or a precognitive dream that happened, or a visitation dream that they had or whatever.

00;02;52;10 - 00;03;16;17
Unknown
And it was like these dream conversations naturally lead us to the deepest places. So for me, spiritual direction and doing work go hand-in-hand. And just to clarify, for everybody who's listening, I consider myself spiritually dependent. And so, oftentimes spiritual direction kind of waves people out a little bit because it's either a new term that they've never heard of or it is a term that they're familiar with, but they associate it with a particular faith.

00;03;16;17 - 00;03;37;07
Unknown
And so, that's, that's the most comfortable label that I've found for myself. It's like I really sit with people in those deepest places. So it's the intersection of dreams and spirituality. That's where I'm most comfortable in the world. Yeah. That's perfect. That makes sense. And I think that's a really important role. Just like being this, you know, spiritual mentorship.

00;03;37;07 - 00;04;00;10
Unknown
And I love the disclaimer about how it's just about, you know, finding your own journey. It's not a dogmatic thing. I think that's really cool. And I love like part of when I started my podcast, I didn't really know, you know, I knew that I love talking about dreams, but it's more so I wanted to just have that dialog in that conversation so that people have like, you know, are comfortable talking about dreams and whatever weird things adventures they have during the night.

00;04;00;10 - 00;04;23;12
Unknown
So, yeah, I think it's awesome that you do that. Do you dabble in like, dream interpretation at all? Is that like something you consider like work within dreams? Like do you find interesting? Yeah, definitely dream interpretation for sure. That's where it started for me. I was in my own, like Dark Night of the soul several years ago, and when my life was sort of falling apart in not making sense, dreams.

00;04;23;14 - 00;04;41;17
Unknown
Of course, when you're learning in life, when you're going through the turmoil of dreams, become stranger and stranger, you know, whatever. So they showed up in my life and I was like, well, maybe I could pretend that these things make sense. That's really a fun place to play. And so when I started my interest in dreams, it was a distraction from what was going on in my waking life.

00;04;41;17 - 00;05;11;07
Unknown
And I had no idea that it that they, in fact, of course, are sharing deep wisdom about what's going on in waking life. And so, so yeah, dream interpretation is, is the place I'm very comfortable with. I tend to teach people dream interpretation techniques, more than literally interpreting dreams for people. Because to me, once I discovered that this is what dreams hold for us every night, I was like, why?

00;05;11;09 - 00;05;45;22
Unknown
Why isn't it? Why did we not learn that, you know, in school? Like, why isn't this a natural part of our learning? You know, when we grow up and everybody needs to know this because everybody has access to dreams and they should be given this skill. So, I call myself a dream expert, and I do offer dream interpretation sessions, but generally what I like to turn out on TikTok and in my website and all of the different places, is here's a technique that you can use to apply to your own dreams, because you need to have their own access to their own wisdom, basically.

00;05;45;24 - 00;06;10;13
Unknown
Yeah, I love that you offer them the tools. I think that's awesome. So like if you do have a session or you know, you're talking to someone and you kind of, you know, you have like a very strong intuition about like a possible, you know, metaphor or something in their dream or you're seeing a perspective you know, how do you offer that to somebody without it being like, you know, kind of like without a lot of being like a direct approach there?

00;06;10;15 - 00;06;31;10
Unknown
Yeah. That's a that's such a good question. And I've been doing this for two decades now. So I've had lots and lots of opportunities to figure out what's my favorite language to use for those kinds of things. It depends on the person I'm sitting with, how open they are, and how well-versed they are in the dream space.

00;06;31;10 - 00;07;08;03
Unknown
Right. So there are some people who I have been working with for years. They understand that what comes for me are my own projections, and some of those might overlap with what's going on for them or whatever. And so in those conversations, I can be a lot more relaxed. And, you know, just the basic back and forth of what if it's this or, you know, what's coming up for me is and then I'll share whatever, with a new dream, or I use a lot more language that allows them to understand that they can take whatever they want of what I'm sharing and the rest.

00;07;08;05 - 00;07;39;29
Unknown
These are just we're just playing, right? We're just brainstorming and putting it all on the table. And my ultimate goal every time is to follow the dream or something. So sometimes I have to throw a bunch of ideas out and then see where they tend to gravitate towards. But that's where the training comes in for me. And and the years of experience coming for me is that there's there's a lot of, active listening that I'm doing where I'm looking and listening for clues that a dreamer, you know, where their comfort level is.

00;07;39;29 - 00;08;15;22
Unknown
Right? I can actually share an example with you. About my I've shared this example before, and this is with permission. Every single time. We had a, tragedy a few years ago. My father passed away quite suddenly, and my mother had, this really difficult dream with him in it a few months later, and the first time she brought the dream up to me, she said, we were at dinner one night and she said, so I had a dream about your dad.

00;08;15;22 - 00;08;34;22
Unknown
It was really horrible, and I don't want to tell you about it. I said, okay, so you don't have to tell me about it. Mom, that's I understand. Thank you for telling me you had one and we didn't push it right. And then a few weeks later, again, we were all at a gathering. And on her own, I didn't say anything on her own.

00;08;34;22 - 00;08;55;10
Unknown
She said, okay, I'll tell you about it, but I don't want to hear what you think. So? Yes, ma'am. Got it. I didn't even we didn't even bring it up. But it was like hanging out there for her for weeks, you know, and she was like, all right, I'm ready to tell you, but I'm. That's all. So. And then again, another few weeks passed.

00;08;55;13 - 00;09;18;22
Unknown
We were at another dinner. I don't think it was maybe Thanksgiving or, I don't know, something we get together and she just went over and she said, okay, I think I'm ready to hear what you think. Okay. So you just have to pay attention to where people are and how they're responding. When it comes to working, what they're doing, because it is really it's very material.

00;09;18;22 - 00;09;42;20
Unknown
So yeah, it's such a sweet example. I, I agree, like, you know, all this dream work that I've been doing in podcasting as well, like we I it's really a listening practice like, you know, feeling out the other person like seeing if they're ready, like how much they understand. Because yeah, it's a process sometimes, like we have to take our own time to process our dreams before we can allow other people to give their opinions and their thoughts.

00;09;42;23 - 00;10;11;05
Unknown
So yeah, yeah, it makes total sense, I like that. What's your personal practice like I do write down your dreams. Do you have any rituals that you do? My personal practice, it's evolved over the years. I used to have, like, a much more regular. Like I had a dream journal. I would start on page one, and I would keep it all the way through the end of the final last page, and then go find the next dream journal and, and do that.

00;10;11;08 - 00;10;30;17
Unknown
And then for a little while, I switched over to voice memos on my phone. I'm like, this way I can just speak into the phone. And I've recently partnered with a new app on the market called Dreamy Ghost, and the dreamy ghost app has its own journal. You can have a, you know, you keep your private dream journal in there.

00;10;30;17 - 00;10;57;26
Unknown
And so I use the Dream Ideas app now to keep a record of my dreams. But but really, really, over the years, I've come to be able to let some of them go. And also I've come to be able to. Oh, how do I say, well, you're going to know this with your with your like experience, the lucid space and the hypnagogic, you know, space.

00;10;57;26 - 00;11;22;17
Unknown
And you wake up, I can wake up in the morning, have a dream in mind and lie there and just let it kind of take up space in my mind and wonder about it and work through it. And I kind of, by the time I get out of bed, I've gotten not a good idea of like, everything that it means, but I've gotten kind of a good start on the gist of the message, right?

00;11;22;17 - 00;11;44;00
Unknown
Oh, I can see where this is connected. Okay. This is from that, or this is the these are the pieces of the dream that came together for. So, it's changed over the years. I guess it's my answer. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, that's good. It makes sense. You know, we evolve and we adapt to, like, life changing and new job, new kids moving, you know, all the things that we go through.

00;11;44;00 - 00;12;11;11
Unknown
So yeah, that that's cool. That makes total sense. And yeah, I mean, you know, the other thing too is that dream work is really it's like art appreciation, you know, it's a creative pursuit. And so all of the books, all of the great methodologies that are available and out there, like they're all good tools to use. And so for me, there's not one there's like a million.

00;12;11;11 - 00;12;31;07
Unknown
And I just like to, have them in my toolbox and then just let whichever one applies, you know, come up on any given day, I guess. Yeah, that's awesome for sure, because it's like a lifelong journey that we always come back to or have within us, you know, and just keeping that, you know, dialog with your subconscious.

00;12;31;07 - 00;12;51;09
Unknown
I definitely like to think about my dreams, even if I'm not, like actively recording them or something like, you know, or even if I haven't remembered a dream in a while, like it's always something that's like kind of in me at some point you know, I think that's cool. And, you know, it's true. And the waking dream now is also dreaming for me.

00;12;51;11 - 00;13;13;08
Unknown
So it's just available anytime I want to drop into that mindset of interpretive language, right? Of what is synchronicity here? What is the message here? Or you know, what is the symbolism or the pattern? It's here in the day. So it's just, I feel like now at this stage in my life, I have one foot in the unconscious and one foot in the conscious world all the time.

00;13;13;08 - 00;13;29;28
Unknown
Kind of, if that makes sense. Yeah, I totally relate. Yeah, I love that. I think the more we get into our dream world, we kind of start to build that, like confluences or the, you know, I like I've heard use that I really like it's like that constant stream of connection between the two. So that's cool. I love it.

00;13;29;28 - 00;13;54;25
Unknown
You said something earlier too, that I thought about, about how like, you know, they should dream, work and dream adjacent things should be taught early in life, like, you know, maybe even like elementary school, like this. Imagine this being part of, like, you know, a school curriculum. And it does have to be complicated. But even getting kids used to like talking about their dreams and thinking about their dreams, you see, like a future where that comes in handy.

00;13;54;25 - 00;14;26;08
Unknown
Or like, why do you think there's like some hesitancy on like a big scale to, like, adopt this kind of thing? Well, that is a big question. Yeah, I know it's a big question because I think society I think there's a lot of reasons in our history that dreams have been, dismissed, like we've been taught that not only does it not mean anything, but also we've been taught wrongly, that it's dangerous to go into the realm of the unconscious and do that work.

00;14;26;08 - 00;15;03;24
Unknown
Right. So we it just feels like a wilderness, that inner realm and that dream space feels like a wilderness feels like it's not safe, it's chaotic. And, you know, if you go in bad things, right, or scary things or who knows what's going to happen. So there are a ton of reasons, I think, for that historically. But I used to actually be an elementary school teacher, and he would teach these character education lessons where it was like teach children how to use, you know, proper emotional language for when your feelings get hurt.

00;15;03;24 - 00;15;33;06
Unknown
You use eye statements, you know, and then we would well, try these eye statements so that kids could learn how to manage their emotions better. And I think that for me is for the benefit of dream sharing and dream work, because dreams are, you know, it was when it hit me or, Ernest Hartman, who wrote and talked about how dreams contextualize emotions.

00;15;33;09 - 00;15;56;16
Unknown
And so for me, there's this natural marriage of if I share a dream, there's a lot that we can explore about your feelings inside of the dream. Right. And if I guess that what I'm picturing in my head is like these elementary school kids, right? Like, well, tell us your dreams, you know, but when it's your dream, you're the owner of the emotions.

00;15;56;16 - 00;16;31;12
Unknown
You get to say, if it was scary or exhilarating, you get to say, you know, yeah, we went up in the roller coaster, but, you know, it felt like we were still on the ground, right? So, so being in the director's chair and and being the one who's able to express exactly what you were feeling, I think is maybe a really good place with dream sharing can be used in schools to help children, but also adults don't get to do education.

00;16;31;17 - 00;16;52;06
Unknown
We introduced it in like the 2000. And so I think character education, emotional intelligence, can be taught at any age level. So I think that's where the overlap is for me. Yeah. You're so right. That makes so much sense. I think this is a key thing that can, you know, that can really help society as a whole.

00;16;52;06 - 00;17;08;01
Unknown
And I'm glad we're kind of moving towards that direction of like treating kids with more respect in general, giving them more autonomy, you know, a place to shine in the world. I mean, you know, I think it's important there are kids these days making millions of dollars on YouTube and have their own businesses. And like, kids are shining these days.

00;17;08;01 - 00;17;33;05
Unknown
I think it's really cool. Just like within this new age of technology. So, you know, I think they're ready for, you know, some spiritual guidance as well. I think it does society some good. Yeah. Yeah. And like it's spiritual and it's emotional and it's neurological like it's mental. Right. So I mean you already know this too, but like dreams are a continuation of your thinking mind.

00;17;33;07 - 00;18;03;01
Unknown
And so we're just thinking from the space of the unconscious as opposed to thinking from that waking mental space. And so the learning that can happen is like, oh, this is how my unconscious works is huge. And, yeah, I do think people are ready for it. And I think when you get to be when a child has a nightmare, instead of saying it was just a dream, you know, it's an opportunity or an invitation to say it was a dream and tell me about it.

00;18;03;01 - 00;18;30;25
Unknown
And it was scary. And if you could imagine a different ending, what would you choose? You know, it's a it's, an invitation to have emotionally compassionate and intelligent conversations with anybody. Yeah, exactly. It's a skill that can be learned early. And it practices like coping mechanisms with, like, hard emotions and hard situations because dreams like, simulate, you know, real life, stressful situations or real life things you might go through.

00;18;30;25 - 00;18;48;04
Unknown
And it's like kind of a practice of like, how are we going to react to that? So yeah, I think it's a tool that can be used really early and, you know, benefit. So I think that's super important. And you have a son two. Right. Did you kind of raise him with like talking about dreams at the breakfast table and that kind of thing I did?

00;18;48;04 - 00;19;10;02
Unknown
Yes. I did. He's like, oh, I had a dream last night, mom. Or I can tell him my dreams, you know, and he sometimes will offer stuff up to me as well. So it's been a really fun, a fun way for our relationship to go in for. I love that, yeah. I love being the person in the family where people are like, okay, I had a dream and like, I want to tell you about it.

00;19;10;02 - 00;19;30;16
Unknown
Like, let me go ask her about it. You know, you helped her that they know I love that. Yep yep yep. And I just saw your face do something, too. I think you and I talked about this before. About this is one of my favorite things about dreams, which is that people tend to drop their persona of seeing as they discover that you have an interest in dreams, or that you can tell them what they're doing.

00;19;30;16 - 00;19;51;20
Unknown
Seem like they all just kind of put the, whatever perfectionist face they put on for the day or whoever they think they are in the world. When they find out about dreams, they're like, oh, I got one, you know? Yeah. So people drop deeper into it's more like real and raw space when they're sharing a journey, which is kind of addictive to me.

00;19;51;20 - 00;20;12;10
Unknown
I just love, you know, I love it too, especially as like a dream guidance content creator, like in, you know, out in the world, like even strangers who are like, oh, you like, you talk about dreams or you research dreams. That's so cool. Like, let me tell you about this dream. I almost have, like this little bit of, like, responsibility that I can't necessarily feel because I don't want to be like, oh, yeah, I know you're means I'm the expert, you know?

00;20;12;12 - 00;20;28;19
Unknown
But then it's like, do you have, like an hour for me to sit here and, like, really guide you through this whole process? So it's like I'm kind of in a predicament sometimes. But I do always kind of have this script of like, yeah, I love talking about dreams. Like, you're the expert on your dream, but like, I can help you through it.

00;20;28;22 - 00;20;51;09
Unknown
Yes it is, it is. You're right about the sense of responsibility. That's such a good point. I had that moment in my career where early on it was just, you know, I was I was trying to figure it all out. And, at that point in my it wasn't even a career. It was just Pam likes to hear dreams or she likes to talk about them, or she always will look it up with you.

00;20;51;09 - 00;21;14;19
Unknown
You know, we'll just Google it together. And then and then one night I was at a party, and, you know, kitchen parties are the best place to do dream sharing. Like late at night. People are like, hey, like, I'm in the band. Oh, you got to hear so-and-so's great, you know? And, and this, friend of mine shared his dream and what he shared.

00;21;14;21 - 00;21;35;15
Unknown
I knew exactly who the dream was expressing because he had said some story earlier in the day. And so I immediately recognized that they were that the story he had shared in the dream he was sharing were overlapping. So I knew what the dream was expressing from him, and I knew who it was about. And that person standing right beside me.

00;21;35;17 - 00;21;55;15
Unknown
And I knew that was the moment where I was like, no, no, he doesn't. He's not really asking for help, you know, he doesn't know what he's sharing. And I could see it because of my studies at that point and kind of understanding how the psyche works. And I had to just say, yeah, you're right. That is the craziest one I've ever heard.

00;21;55;22 - 00;22;31;03
Unknown
Yes. I have no idea what that means. Right? I can't imagine, because that wasn't at all what they were there for. You know, it was just an opportunity to share a story. And so there is a great responsibility to hold safe somebody during sharing, you know, and you learn it. It's just like you said, people will share and you have to learn to be sensitive to what it is they're asking, what it is they're exposing, you know, and how to help them, like, keep it safe.

00;22;31;05 - 00;22;48;25
Unknown
Yes. For sure. And I notice on a whole of like spiritual growth as well. Like, sometimes people need their own time to process what they've experienced, you know, and to process the whole situation. And then maybe there later there's a time and place to talk about, like, hey, like, here's some ideas about what that dream could have meant.

00;22;48;27 - 00;23;06;04
Unknown
But, you know, like, you have to consider the other person's perspective. Like that, not just blurted out in front of everyone. So that's a good example. Do you have like, I know you said, you kind of have like a little set script, right, of like, here's how I'm going to like now back, back out of this so that they can come to me if they want.

00;23;06;05 - 00;23;30;07
Unknown
They don't have to like, one of the things that I tend to say sometimes is like, are you interested in that? Do you want some thoughts about that or do you just do the. Yeah. You know, like, do you want to talk about it later or do you want to talk about it now? Like just kind of giving people the invitation of, of what it is that they're interested in, you know, and oftentimes they do want more thoughts.

00;23;30;09 - 00;24;05;02
Unknown
And I will go to generic tips about dreams or I will, you know, like like if it's a recurring dream. Also like here's recurring information about recurring grains. And generally you can do some inquiries like this to to again to go wide like take a wide path around their personal intimate information, you know, and it took me a long time to learn that I could trust myself in that space of like, well, this is kind of how I consider myself a professional now is I've had enough, run.

00;24;05;02 - 00;24;23;25
Unknown
I got enough practice that I recognize that I can trust my own response, the people I can trust. But I'm reading their needs really well, you know, and I know all the different various ways to invite them into session or to just say, hey, I'm happy to exchange emails or whatever, you know, with them. So, yeah, it's like it is for sure.

00;24;23;25 - 00;24;40;29
Unknown
I mean, I think you're doing a great job of it. And like, you know, dream interpretation has never been like my focus. Like, you know, lucid dreaming is my thing, niche within the niche. So I always tell people that to like I try not to even sometimes offer general things, but I'm like, hey, you can look it up.

00;24;40;29 - 00;24;59;19
Unknown
Just know that, like, sometimes general things help and sometimes they don't. And I tell people, like, if you want to learn how to lucid dream and go get lucidly and ask about what the dream means to the dream itself while you're in it, then I can help you. Because like so many ways to like, look at dreams and analyze a dream and you know, I just going to stay in my lane.

00;24;59;21 - 00;25;26;24
Unknown
Yeah. It's so hard, right? Because people come with the expectation, you know, you're going to interpret because there is that learning curve to of you know, we all of us are used to just I'm going to say googling it. But at this point it's like to whenever I go into a dream dictionary like you want your ego wants the immediate answer, your ego is going to want, this equals this, right?

00;25;26;26 - 00;25;59;23
Unknown
And so that's what people are coming for. And the challenge for us is to turn the question around and kind of get a little bit deeper into like, you know what? It's like if some, you know, I'm going off of script. But anyway, the challenge is to turn it around and ask a different question so that you can find out if they're really interested in learning about sleep and dreams, and they want to spend some time learning it, or if they're really just looking for a quick answer, and then I'm and then you don't have it.

00;25;59;23 - 00;26;17;03
Unknown
And then they're going to be like, yeah, exactly. And I don't want to say something whether I'm right or wrong. I don't want them to think that just because I said something and I'm some expert or authority that they think latch on to it, you know, I usually if I have time, like I'll ask clarifying questions like I'll kind of go into dreamwork without fully going into it.

00;26;17;03 - 00;26;30;13
Unknown
I'll be like, you know, oh, really? And then what they say? Or did they notice or what was the environment or how did you feel? You know, I just like ask questions back. And then a lot of times it'll unlock all these other memories. I love when somebody is like, oh, you just made me remember a different part of the dream.

00;26;30;13 - 00;26;47;27
Unknown
And I'm like, yes, that was a win. And then they're like, oh, you know what? Now I have some thoughts about like, what it could mean. And then like eventually they come out and like figure it out. So it's like I try to go in that way. That's it. You're right. Asking more questions like sitting down beside them and being like, tell me more about it for you.

00;26;47;27 - 00;27;07;11
Unknown
Right. Keeping them in the driver's seat. Yeah, exactly. There's so many like ways to approach it. I think it's just like whatever. It feels right. Because it's different if someone's next to you versus somebody you don't even know in your, you know, request messages, you know, so it's yeah, it is different. But you're right about the social media world.

00;27;07;11 - 00;27;31;20
Unknown
Like like, with TikTok, I found that dreams are just a really good engagement tool, topic to discuss, you know, because people want to they want to come across, they want to learn the tips, they want to share their dreams. And it's a really great place to engage with the dreamer community and to find new people that are interested in the dream community.

00;27;31;20 - 00;27;48;20
Unknown
You know, and just be like, right this way. It's the International Association for the Study of Dreams. You know, like there are there is a group of people out here that want to talk about this all the time. Yeah, I love TikTok as well. I feel like everyone there is like more, just nicer. And like everyone wants to just it's more diary style, like more community.

00;27;48;20 - 00;28;08;24
Unknown
So, you know, every social media has their pros and cons. But yeah, I definitely get the most love from TikTok. Yeah, I love that. So is there like a dream that you can share, like one of your favorite dreams? Or maybe something that stands out in this moment that like really, you know, impacted you in some way? Yeah.

00;28;08;24 - 00;28;41;19
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, I've had a few of those, you know, deep, life altering dreams. In fact, I'll tell you about my one was that. Yeah, I may have had, I mean, I could probably count them on one hand if I thought really hard, but I have one that was this really big, big lucid dream. So, this was, probably in 2014, and it was one of those, vacation weeks during the summer where, we're like at the beach for the whole week.

00;28;41;19 - 00;29;23;10
Unknown
So, you know, sleeping changes. I get all my naps in. I'm, like, fully rested and feeling good. And I had this dream where, okay, let's see. My brother and I walk up to this festival. It's like in a, a gravel parking lot, and there's this, like, tent, big set up for this huge festival. And so we go inside and it's the inside of a lunchroom, cafeteria, and we walk in and there's this amazing, like, steel drum band on the cafeteria stage, like, performing, and I couldn't.

00;29;23;10 - 00;29;48;00
Unknown
Okay, so I'm going to tell you that the main drummer was so strikingly handsome that I couldn't look him in the eyes, and he was, like, staring into my soul. Like, every time I looked up on the stage, I was like, It was so he was so stunning. And my friend comes running over and she's like, he put this all together for you, just for you.

00;29;48;03 - 00;30;16;20
Unknown
And I was like, what are you talking about? And I just, I couldn't even look at him. And right about that moment after she said that this hush came over the crowd and people started to whisper, she's here, she's here, she's here. And I was looking around was who is here? And at this point, somehow I became lucid, like I started to realize I was inside of a dream.

00;30;16;22 - 00;30;46;27
Unknown
And I was like, who is here? That. But now I'm lucid and I get to see this dream character. And it was there was this, very old, witchy looking elder woman. She was the wise woman. And everyone had come to see her. So she had just arrived. And you got one question with that's what everybody had been, that they were all together waiting to get this one question.

00;30;46;29 - 00;31;14;09
Unknown
So we all line up and in my head I'm thinking like, okay, Pam, this is your chance. Your lucid in a dream, you get one question of this woman, don't mess it up. And I was in a straight panic. I mean, I because I was like, I have not planned one question. What's my question? What? And so I'm standing in this line, it's getting closer and closer and closer with this woman in my head.

00;31;14;09 - 00;31;38;19
Unknown
I'm just like, don't mess up. You have one question, like, figure it out. What are you going to ask? And the person in front of me was, I'm standing in front of this woman who's maybe four foot two. She's so tiny that this old, old, wrinkly face. And I just looked down at her and I said, what?

00;31;38;21 - 00;32;07;28
Unknown
Like, what is my gift? What am I supposed to be doing? What is my gift? And she said, you are a dream seer. And then she handed me this intricately carved globe made of wood about the size of a softball that had, like, you could see into it. And it was this carved that like this globe fish thing made out of wood.

00;32;07;28 - 00;32;35;22
Unknown
And she handed it to me and I held it. I was like, but this is a dream. I how do I take this with me? And without thinking, I put it to my chest and it sunk into my body. And I woke up. Whoa, that's so cool. That was my one lucid dream and I just sat there like I sat up in bed and I was like, I need a journal.

00;32;35;24 - 00;32;57;07
Unknown
No, this is crazy. I love how you knew how, like, intuitively, like how to take it with you. I do that in dream sometimes too. I'm like, how do I translate this? You know, and I kind of see the gift or whatever. It's like, you know, it's some metaphorical lesson that's imprinted into your, you know, consciousness somehow. And then the lesson translate and yeah, your gift being so dreamy.

00;32;57;14 - 00;33;13;18
Unknown
That's amazing. I love that it was I, I did after I woke up, I was like, okay, did I make that up? Because I meant to dream. So I'm a dream seer. Like, is that the obvious response? I always think that too. It's like, did I just decide this is how my dream was going to be? Right, right, right, right right.

00;33;13;21 - 00;33;36;04
Unknown
That's still very deep. It is. And, you know, I've learned I mean, you just trust it, right? You just trust what you think it is because that's how it works. And I won't forget the feeling of sitting on that porch that morning before the sun came up with my journal, with this, like, overwhelming awe of having somehow become lucid.

00;33;36;04 - 00;34;05;10
Unknown
I don't know how I did it, it was a practice. It just happened. And I was like, oh my God, I'm not waking up yet. So that part is powerful to me as well, because I sometimes feel like, you know, whatever higher power that helps orchestrate the dream, whether it be a part of us or something bigger or whatever, you may think of it as, you know, sometimes they allow us to be present for certain initiatory, ritual, spiritual moments in the dream world, and sometimes we spontaneously become lucid for them.

00;34;05;10 - 00;34;22;25
Unknown
A lot of people have like, you know, kind of describe this type of thing. And even for me, I sometimes even though I get lucid a lot, sometimes I don't try. I just become lucid in an important moment of the dream where it's almost like required attendance, you know, and they gave it to you. So I feel I love that moment that you had to be lucid for.

00;34;22;25 - 00;34;44;27
Unknown
And, you know, the fact that you haven't had many other lucid dreams shows the intentionality of that. Yeah, yeah, it was years and it was years ago. But, every time I see like a carving, like a wood carving or a carved fish, I'm like, oh, there we are. You can feel like that is my soul's identity somehow, you know?

00;34;44;29 - 00;35;02;13
Unknown
It's awesome. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Well, if you ever do become lucid again, you can try to find that thing. And, you know, look at it again. Oh, that's a good idea. Thank you for that. I think I needed that. Yeah, we'll find it in a dream. Lucid or not. You know, you can incubate it yet again.

00;35;02;15 - 00;35;33;22
Unknown
Yeah. I'm totally going to do that now. Yeah. Yeah. It's in there somewhere. Yeah. That's you know, that's the thing to me about all of this and why it's, you know, the interpretation part almost doesn't matter. I mean, it is because it's the end, because everybody, that's how everybody gets into it, I think. But it almost doesn't matter because ultimately, what I've learned and what is true is that there's this other part of me, bigger than me, that is orchestrated, like you were saying, orchestrating the dreams.

00;35;33;25 - 00;36;01;09
Unknown
That is 100% trustworthy. Like I've developed this relationship. Fine. But even if you've not, if you've never looked at your dreams before, dreams are like, right alongside you every night. Even if you don't read them like they're just right there. It's like your constant companion. It's this free source of your, like, the deepest depths of your soul. And I'm like, who doesn't want to know that party involved?

00;36;01;11 - 00;36;19;22
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, it can be like a dark journey for some people to really open this up because dreams won't lie to you, you know? Like, it'll show you the good, bad, the ugly of whatever you got going on. And some people, they're not ready for that, you know, which I understand. But, you know, it's a journey that we all need to do at some point.

00;36;19;22 - 00;36;46;22
Unknown
And dreams can bring those healing gifts, like, even scary, you know, traumatic dreams have, like, that opportunity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The way that I, the way that I like to explain that, I mean, is that they are because you remembered a dream. It's available for you to be consciously aware of. So whatever the issue is, but it's bringing up, it's bringing up kind of the amount that you are able to digest right now.

00;36;46;25 - 00;37;13;18
Unknown
Right. And I learned that just, for me, that dark night of the soul period, it was infertility and trying to conceive our son and I, it was that issue was so big in my life at the time that it was completely unapproachable. I was in complete shock and denial and depression and all the hard things and dreams once I started, like getting curious about them.

00;37;13;18 - 00;37;44;01
Unknown
And that's the other thing, is that when you come up, when you go at something from a place of curiosity, you soften to it, and so you receive it better and you care. So dreams would create these wild stories that felt completely disconnected for me and unrelated to my life. And then I would go in with curiosity, and it would give me this side entry into one of the layers of the problem.

00;37;44;04 - 00;38;07;26
Unknown
You know, it was like, great, we're not going to deal with the whole life altering infertility right now. But if you look at this tangled, not this one little string is loose and you can work on this one little stream and then that's it. And then the next year you'd be like, here's another little stream if you're interested, you know, like this little gentle, like nudging forward even the really scary one.

00;38;07;29 - 00;38;31;19
Unknown
Yeah. Our subconscious is so patient with us, I think, and like gives us little metaphors until we're ready to, like, let go of our beliefs and whatever's holding us back from, like, understanding ourselves. It's like our internal therapist. So yeah. So I always encourage people to start, you know, thinking about your dreams even with curiosity or, you know, you don't have to, you know, be scared or anything like that.

00;38;31;22 - 00;38;50;22
Unknown
I know I love that. So, what do you have going on in terms of, like, anything local or online, like anybody that's listening to this, that is in like the U.S. East Coast region. That's kind of where we're at. So, you know, definitely follow us and and see what we got going on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I'm all over social media.

00;38;50;22 - 00;39;26;04
Unknown
Absolutely. Georgia Patton is my, name on Instagram and TikTok. I'm also on Facebook. So, but I also created a private community that's free for dreamers. And honestly, I use the Mighty Networks platform. It's called Pam's Place, and I have to say, it's my favorite place to put you inspired information. So I add like dream articles from news media outlets, but I come across and I'll add, learning modules in there and three tips and I've got all sorts of stuff in that little space.

00;39;26;04 - 00;39;46;29
Unknown
So I would encourage anybody interested to join hands please. Because again, it's just a free community. But yeah, I, I kind of can't help it. I'm just like you. I can't help content creation and talking about this. So I'm always going to be out there churning out more stuff. So yeah, that's that's where that's what people define.

00;39;47;01 - 00;40;13;24
Unknown
They look for, I guess. I love that we love free resources and a free place to just share and, you know, see what people are talking about. So yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah for sure. Who I just, joined in there, so. Oh, yay. So, Yeah, the thing I like about it, too, is that it's not just like a newsletter from me to somebody, and they're, you know, it's it's this community forum so everybody can connect with each other.

00;40;13;24 - 00;40;31;18
Unknown
Or my favorite thing I have ADHD is that I get these little notifications on my phone every time somebody asks a question or has a comment. And so it's just the quickest way to get in touch with me if you want to, you know, explore your dreams and you have more questions when you go to the place.

00;40;31;20 - 00;40;51;06
Unknown
And now you know, that, I mean, is in there too. So you can go connect to both of us. Exactly. And I'll post the link in there when we publish this. Right. Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you for chatting. And we pretty much hit everything that I wanted to ask you about. But if there's anything else that you want to mention or close off with, you know, I'm happy to hear that, too.

00;40;51;06 - 00;41;12;02
Unknown
You know, I here's what I will say. And you can decide whatever you want to do this, but you are very, very good at effortlessly just throwing in another question and another. You are such an excellent podcaster. I have done shows. I know you've done shows before to, you know, different competitions, you know, and you're just very comfortable in Nashville and it just rolls for you.

00;41;12;02 - 00;41;42;02
Unknown
So you've made it a very enjoyable, easy conversation. Oh thank you. You're so sweet. That honestly means a lot because yeah, even I'm still shy. Like behind all the podcasting, it's hard for me to get out there and put myself out there and talk to people. But you have such good energy. So you made it easy to talk to.