EP110: The Ultimate List of Things to do in a Lucid Dream

In this episode of The Dream World Podcast, I chat with lucid dreamer and dream explorer, Eleanor about flying through the cosmos, meeting historical figures like Carl Sagan and André Breton, and using lucid dreaming as a tool for healing and grief.

Together, we explore:

• How flying through space became her favorite beginner lucid dream activity
• The surreal dream mission to co-write a poem with the spirit of André Breton
• How mirrors, digital clocks, and text can reveal you're dreaming
• Grieving a loved one through dream encounters and healing intentions
• Navigating science vs spirituality in Western vs Indigenous views of dreams
• Dream logic, fictional characters, Pokémon dream triggers, and texting other dreamers
• How lucid dreaming can help us process trauma, practice language, and explore new paradigms of consciousness

We also talk about the community-created “Ultimate List of Things to do in a Lucid Dream”, filled with ideas for healing, adventure, exploration, and experimentation in the dream world. 

🔗 Resources mentioned:

The Ultimate List of Things to do in a Lucid Dream

https://thedreamworldpodcast.com/2023/07/11/the-ultimate-list-of-things-to-do-in-a-lucid-dream/

The "Smart Machines, Lucid Dreams" article https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/60e44197d3987537e2ec1460/64f84f27fafa46dcfe47fb73_2023%20SEPT%20LDE.pdf  (September 2023 Lucid Dream Experience, page 19).

Ryan Hurd's Dream Portal community https://community.dreamstudies.org

Charlie Morley's Lucid Dreamer Faciliator Training https://www.charliemorley.com/lucid-dream-facilitator-training

Transcript

Amina
I'm excited to chat today about lucid dreams and stuff. Did you check out that link that I sent you? 

Eleanor:

Yeah, just before. And I've done a number of those things. I've flown to the moon. I've just done fly in general. That's really fun. I highly recommend it for beginners, just however you. However, your subconscious or unconscious wants to fly.
Just do it because you cannot do it when you're awake. But the laws of gravity do not apply. Yeah, the only limit is is your imagination literally. Yeah. It's cool how like a lot of people fly in different ways. Like some people use, like, Superman powers. Some people use wings or a jetpack. Yeah, I don't I don't use anything.

00;00;45;19 - 00;01;06;27
Unknown
I just spread out my arms like this and I just sort of levitate. And then I keep going. What I've done is, I've left Earth's gravity, and then I've just seen all the stars and planets go past me really fast. So it's it's. I don't know if that's on the list, per se, but something about traveling at light speed could be, something along those lines, because that's how it feels.

00;01;07;05 - 00;01;31;20
Unknown
Yeah. They'll go past the moon, I go past Mars. I go past a lot. The soul of our system. Yeah. I'm gonna, share my screen, but. Yeah. So I made this list, like, a couple years ago with just some lucid dreamer friends, you know, community online. We're always adding to it. Like, if anybody has things they want to add to it or any ideas, it's not on there, you know, let me know or send me an email or whatever.

00;01;31;26 - 00;01;54;09
Unknown
But, you know, I went organizing it over the years and now it's in nine categories. So it's like super powers, mind, body, soul, spiritual dream, characters, creation, dreamscape, feel good stuff, questions and commands and then like a legendary random list of things people have done. Yeah. So it's basically like the ultimate list of things to do in the dream.

00;01;54;12 - 00;02;12;22
Unknown
One idea I had, that I've been wanting to do for a while is meet like historical figures that you can't possibly meet in real life because they've been dead for a long time. Like I often have dreams about Carl Sagan, the astronomer and his family and sometimes it becomes a lucid dream when he's a dream character. And I'm remembering that he's dead.

00;02;12;25 - 00;02;38;14
Unknown
And I'm like, you're not supposed to be alive anymore. So this must be a dream. Because I know because of his, his, his, his spirituality did not allow for or lack thereof. His spirituality was with with science. He didn't believe in an afterlife, so that wouldn't that's that's just not. And I actually heard his daughter say on an interview that she has dreams of her dad, and then she realizes, oh, but you're not alive anymore because she was 14 when he passed.

00;02;38;16 - 00;02;56;28
Unknown
Oh, yeah. It's a really good way to become lucid is by, you know, noticing things like that. And I wonder, like, do you think when we dream of people, you know, historical figures or even loved ones that have passed, how much of it do you think is our projections and makeup on? Yeah, depends on. Sorry, I interrupted.

00;02;57;01 - 00;03;17;27
Unknown
Oh. You're right. Depends on how well you know the person. Like, I know Robert Wagner has talked about when he met like his father, after he passed, he had a way to verify if it was just a projection or if it was his, spirit. And and so he asked his the dream character of his dad to say, to tell him something that he could verify when he woke up.

00;03;18;00 - 00;03;36;18
Unknown
And then also he said that his father appeared younger in the dream, like, more, more lively than he did when he died. I love seeing how dreams are portrayed in like movies and TV shows and even cartoons nowadays. I see them mentioning things about dreams and adventures and yeah, and I think part of that was inspired by that movie inception.

00;03;36;21 - 00;03;57;14
Unknown
It got a bunch of people to realize that lucid dreaming is a thing. There was this guy, Elliot Gish, and he. He said he got into lucid dreaming. I got into it a little before that, but I found out about it on a on a, fan fiction forum. And, about 20 years ago, actually, when I was in high school, someone mentioned it, and I realized that I had one of those.

00;03;57;16 - 00;04;16;02
Unknown
It's something I could relate to. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that it kind of opened up this dialog, become mainstream. And now the next level of it is getting into all the details of lucid dreams, of all the possibilities, of all the things you can use it for and like. Convincing people that like this is something that they're capable of doing.

00;04;16;04 - 00;04;33;16
Unknown
Was it hard for you to learn how to lucid dream? Once I got the hang of it and stopped waking up from excitement, it was, the superpower. It was a little harder because I didn't believe in myself. But once I became it was. It was. It wasn't too difficult to become lucid because I, I really, as Charlie Mallie says, it's it's you.

00;04;33;18 - 00;04;54;06
Unknown
I had a reason to recover lucid. I didn't I wanted to get I wanted to help, help deal with my own nightmares that I was having, and I didn't want to talk to anybody about them. So I sort of that was my motivation at the time. So do you ever do things in your dreams, just like talking to dream characters or maybe trying to, like, kind of explore the dream scene?

00;04;54;06 - 00;05;12;27
Unknown
Yeah, I often explore the, the background and just sometimes I don't even have a goal because I've forgotten my dream plan. But I've I do let the dream continue and see what my unconscious wants me to say without even asking. It's just like, where does where is this going? Now that I know that's a dream? What? I don't try to change it.

00;05;12;27 - 00;05;47;03
Unknown
I just try to like. And I think that's a good approach for life. It's just some things we can't change. And, we just have to let it go on as it is. Yeah. Honestly, you're so right. It is a good metaphor. And, sometimes I just, you know, do that as well. When you do try to do your dream plan, what kind of things you usually plan to do in the dream, if you can remember to, one of the dream plans I was successful with a few months ago was there is this email thread we're having, that some of us from the, dream portal have with Dave Green, the artist, and

00;05;47;03 - 00;06;04;28
Unknown
he is also he was trying to our dream plan was to find this this father of surrealism and André Breton and find the next line of the poem that we're all he's helping us compose in our dreams. And you can put it in the show notes that, like, interview with him. I think that's on Ryan's portal. I'm not sure if it's public.

00;06;05;00 - 00;06;20;24
Unknown
Yeah, I'm in that thread, too. How did I I'll tell you mine after, but because I also got a line of the poem, like I didn't get a line in the poem, I tried to, I found I found Andre, and I explained to him, we want the next line of this poem we're composing with your help. And he would.

00;06;20;25 - 00;06;44;19
Unknown
But he was interested in the iPad I was carrying. He was looking up himself on YouTube, and he was trying to find all these, like, poetry citations because he was interested in the modern technology that wasn't around when he was around. That's so funny. But that's still such a key part of the story because it's so cool. Like for context, you know, for the listeners, we had this like dream plan of trying to find André Breton, who, you know, has transitioned from the Earth since.

00;06;44;19 - 00;07;06;16
Unknown
But he's, you know, this just really cool figure in the surrealism world. And, you know, we're writing this poem together with him and in the dream, he'll like, give us lucid dreamers a line of the poem. So it's still so cool that like, it shows through even your dream, like his personality and just like, funny little quirky challenges of putting together this dream poem.

00;07;06;19 - 00;07;31;23
Unknown
Yeah. And, like, I didn't know who he was. Before the day of Green Goddess got so involved in this stuff. He was the one who introduced me to Andre as a as a figure. So now that he's a possible dream figure, I do think that is that is part even though I didn't know him in real life, obviously we wouldn't have possibly interacted, but I do think that he he was the kind of character that can show part of his personality through lucid dreams.

00;07;31;27 - 00;07;47;05
Unknown
Yeah, definitely. The poem is really cool, actually. Should we read it? Yeah, we have so far. Do you think that's allowed? It's allowed, but it might take up a lot of time. Maybe put a link to it in like a copy of it in the show notes. That's true, that's true. I'll put a copy of it in the show notes.

00;07;47;08 - 00;08;07;11
Unknown
The cool thing about it is how like, even though we independently each got a different line from our own dreams, they kind of have like a cool, poetic cadence to it, and they connect. I'm trying to remember which one. Oh yeah, mine was. And then there were. They can figure out the rest. I remember that line. Yes, because in my dream I got lucid.

00;08;07;11 - 00;08;23;26
Unknown
I was like, I remember like, oh, we have this task of finding him. So I went and like summoned him around the corner and he was there, like, with these glasses, like just how I would imagine. And I was like the poem, you know, what's the next line? And he's like. And then there were. And I was like, there were what?

00;08;23;26 - 00;08;38;13
Unknown
Like, I'm waiting for the next line. And he's like, they can figure out the rest. I'm like, yeah, it's like, I'll go show up in somebody else's dream and tell them the rest of the poem. It's exactly. It's like when you're a kid and you're playing that game telephone and it, it goes through, the message get distorted.

00;08;38;16 - 00;08;56;14
Unknown
Exactly. And it's really cool because the next dreamer's line was the poem is the center, it is the mirror, which I think is kind of deep if you think about. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And speaking of mirrors, in in the ultimate list, you have look at yourself in a mirror and I done that to get lucid. I've noticed the image is distorted.

00;08;56;14 - 00;09;16;07
Unknown
It doesn't look like me. I have, like, too many fingers or my my head is too small or something like that. And I'm like, wait, this? Or the image is, like, constantly changing. It's not consistent or it doesn't. When I do an action, it doesn't match in the mirror. I'm like, wait, this is a dream, right? And I'm like, yeah, it's got to be, yeah, I do that too.

00;09;16;10 - 00;09;37;10
Unknown
For me, sometimes it'll be like, I can change my face up like Picasso, or sometimes I'll be completely different character. Like, yeah, I might have like reptile skin or something. Yeah, exactly. You never know. You know, a lot of people say online, like, don't do that. It's bad to look in the mirror, you know, spreading fear. I don't like when people say, oh, no, no, it's like it's like people say that sleep paralysis has to be scary.

00;09;37;10 - 00;09;54;22
Unknown
No it doesn't. I gave my, Ryan Hertz book on sleep paralysis, the audiobook, to my sister for her birthday last year because she used to struggle a lot with sleep paralysis. And then I know the book says it can. It can lead to an out-of-body experience. And that's that's not something that's something I've been interested in, but I haven't had success with.

00;09;54;26 - 00;10;18;16
Unknown
Yeah. Honestly, that's that's true. There's there's a really big overlap there. And I've gone from sleep paralysis into a lucid dream, like I've gone through the sleep paralysis process, watched my body fall asleep and then ended up into just like a dream. Yeah, that will do. Exactly. Yeah. And there's obviously just like some confusing things about the wording because some people will say, oh, that's an out of body.

00;10;18;16 - 00;10;39;20
Unknown
Oh, that's a lucid dream. You know, I try not to think. Some people think like, well, it's the same thing. I've heard people say different things. So it's like, it's whatever you want to call it, I do. I have heard from Robert Wagner in an email a couple of years back that some people, people in both the lucid dreaming and out of body community, they seem to have a mental like easier time with one or the other.

00;10;39;22 - 00;10;59;00
Unknown
It's rare for them to have a preference for both. And I'm like, I definitely lean towards lucid dreaming. I find that a lot easier. I've not had success with the OBEs because I've tried to initiate them and then I end up falling asleep. Yeah, same. I'm more of a lucid dreamer and I have had OBEs not through dreaming though, so it's different for me.

00;10;59;00 - 00;11;18;19
Unknown
And I have a differentiation, but there's no scientific consensus and that's okay. It has to be maybe a subjective thing. So I think we're like entering this paradigm shift of like needing to label something into strict categories. Yeah, no. Lucid dreaming has been a thing for thousands of years, but the scientific community didn't believe it until like the late 70s, early 80s.

00;11;18;22 - 00;11;37;14
Unknown
That doesn't mean people didn't have them. Exactly. Yeah, people have been having them for centuries of, you know, since ancient Egypt. You know, it's exactly they had they had they had obese until, they talked about the different bodies of, like the soul body and I can't remember their terms, but was like the physical body versus the soul body.

00;11;37;14 - 00;11;58;00
Unknown
Yeah. It's really cool. I think in ancient civilizations like that, they used to value more like the magical, the spiritual, you know, the stern. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, we are kind of adapting as the Western world to balance science and spirituality, which, as you know, is like a huge part of what I try to do overall. Yeah, yeah.

00;11;58;00 - 00;12;20;20
Unknown
And I think and Jada Shaw, who is, Charlie Morley's former spouse and, but there's, there's still like in touch. They're we're still friends. They're still really good friends. And so Jade, she talks about that in her newsletters. She, she says astral projection instead of OBEs. But for my understanding, it's a different another label there.

00;12;20;22 - 00;12;45;08
Unknown
But she talks about how, different cultures, have different, different, judgmental views on what is, what is like scientific versus what is spiritual. And can they be mixed because, indigenous cultures definitely value the spiritual a lot more. Yeah, definitely. And I think we're starting to as well as a society. But, you know, we'll see where it goes.

00;12;45;08 - 00;13;05;26
Unknown
I think lucid dreaming is something that wakens up a lot of people to, you know, these other possibilities. Do you ever, like, try like commanding the dreamscape itself or like talking to the dream as a whole? I do remember, and my dream journal from a few years back, I had I had a, dream plan and I asked for all thought forms disappear.

00;13;06;04 - 00;13;23;25
Unknown
And they did. And there was one dream character left and his name was Bob, and he was like an older like, sagely man some. And he summoned me as someone's grandfather. And I remember us in a hotel, and I was trying to get some information from him. I don't remember the information because it got lost by the time I was recording The dream.

00;13;24;00 - 00;13;53;00
Unknown
But this was back in, I think, 2021. So a number of years, a few years ago. Yeah, that's cool. I, I like doing different things like that to what about like do you think that there's some connection between things we do in the dream world and then things showing up in like our waking life? Yeah, I've looked more into the precognitive dreams, and while I don't have, I don't have the bigger ones that I think some people experience a lot, but I do, I, I do notice that when I dream about something, it shows up in some small form.

00;13;53;00 - 00;14;11;09
Unknown
The next day. So there's precognitive aspects that you have to look for if you're not, like, versed in that, which most of Western society just isn't, or they dismiss it or they say it's impossible. I have a friend who's like, he prides himself on his skepticism. And so I, I've talked to him about lucid dreaming because he knows that scientifically validated.

00;14;11;11 - 00;14;32;15
Unknown
I haven't talked to him about OBEs because he just like shake his head at that and think, I think I think it was silly and I frankly think that's his loss. Yeah. Well, people have their belief systems that they're ingrained in and, you know, it takes a while for them to be set free. But once they have the experience themselves, the the personal subjective is the ultimate shatter of all those limiting beliefs.

00;14;32;18 - 00;14;53;04
Unknown
Yeah. Like, back in like the 60s, people would say lucid dreaming is impossible. Like they there were that of that of that mindset and back if I, if I had been around back then, I'd probably say something like, have you ever tried to have one to prove to yourself whether it's real or not? Exactly. I'm shocked that there's still people that think that it doesn't exist or that it's not real.

00;14;53;04 - 00;15;16;29
Unknown
People still think that even though it's we know it is. It's been proven. Yeah. The evidence has been around for over 45 years almost. I think they did the first experiment, the with Keith Herman and Alan Worsley in the UK about 50 years ago on in April 1975. I'm, I'm good at remembering dates and and and I know Robert Wagner mentions that because he said he had his first and early lucid dream on his when he was a teenager.

00;15;16;29 - 00;15;37;08
Unknown
Them. That's super cool. I think there's so much endless possibilities. How often do you get lucid? Like, do you have a practice or just kind of spontaneous? When I practice more, it happens more, but it's inconsistent. A few times a month, I would say that's not pretty good. I mean, that's more than most people see. Exactly. Like most people, if they don't practice, it's like maybe, once a year at most.

00;15;37;10 - 00;15;56;20
Unknown
I haven't tried to. I know some people, the ones I consider the experts. I'm putting that in quotes because, like, we can all become experts. The one some people have had, like multiple ones a night. I've never gotten to that point. I can remember 2 or 3 dreams a night. But I haven't had multiple lucid dreams.

00;15;56;23 - 00;16;18;28
Unknown
If I have, they've been very short. Not and not worth recording. Yeah, I've had multiple. Sometimes they'll be like a long dream that strings into other dreams. Or I've woken up, gone back to sleep. Lost lucidity, gained lucidity again. Like it's how it's flexible within the dream. I love how it's lucid dreaming. There's so many techniques because you find what works for your lifestyle and like your sleep schedule.

00;16;18;28 - 00;16;36;20
Unknown
You know everybody's different, so it's really about finding what works for you. Exactly. There's so many ways to do it, and you don't have to like there's not like, this method as best this method is, is not so good. It's like it depends on your person. Yeah. Are you going to be in Ashland by any chance for the next conference?

00;16;36;22 - 00;17;00;26
Unknown
I hope so, I know that there's a northeastern ISD conference in, but it's at the same time I'm in London. That's in like Boston or something. Yeah, they do have regionals. I, I hope to be in Ashland because this is the first, first I-s-d Conference I was fully at. I tried to go since 2021. It just never worked out because of work.

00;17;00;28 - 00;17;18;01
Unknown
Yeah. But this is the first year I was able to do it fully, and I feel like I didn't get the full experience just because it was fully online. It was great, but it's like I wanted more. Yeah. Some stuff you can only get from in person. Yeah, 100%. Well, the one after that in 2027 is going to be in Atlanta.

00;17;18;01 - 00;17;36;22
Unknown
I don't know if you're on the East Coast, but that one's close home. So maybe I'll see you around at one of those. But if not like definitely online, like we'll stay in touch and stuff. Sure. What else do you have going on? Like, are you a part of any other dream groups or communities online? Well, I mentioned Charlie Morley's training, which I do recommend if you can.

00;17;36;24 - 00;17;53;23
Unknown
It's it is aimed at therapists. So if you're in the kind of therapist healing type field and you want to teach lucid dreaming to your clients, that is, I highly recommend that the next one of those, I assume will be in 2027, when they have the many worlds of lucid dreaming. Every couple of years I've been to every single one of those.

00;17;53;23 - 00;18;12;22
Unknown
I highly recommend that. Currently I'm at Ryan Hurd's dream portal. It's super fun always to talk to, you know, lucid dreamers that have done all these adventures in the dreamscape. One more thing. And you mentioned on the list you mentioned, like, missing your senses and there, there's a I think the term for that is synesthesia.

00;18;12;22 - 00;18;29;23
Unknown
And that's, it's linked to creativity. If you if you experience that in the waking life, that's another. Yeah. For sure. That one's interesting, too. I haven't tried that one in a dream. I'm going to try it out. Yeah. Me neither. I, I'd really like to do that because it's like that's. I want to get the experience that some people might have when they're awake.

00;18;29;23 - 00;18;45;21
Unknown
And I'm like, oh, color music. That's it just sounds, I mean, you you'd think it was like someone was on drugs or something, but that's normal for something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there anything else on the list that you haven't tried or that you want to try? I really like the idea of playing chess, and it is a dream.

00;18;45;21 - 00;19;02;28
Unknown
I think my dad will appeal that because he's the one who taught me when I was a kid. And I'll mention that to him. And I was one of those as a dream person he could make. But like, if you have play chess with a dream character, you have to like remember all the logic of the game and see if it's like I'm just imagining playing with like, your inner child.

00;19;02;28 - 00;19;21;26
Unknown
And they want to like, throw the pieces when they lose. Yeah, that's funny, but I imagine, like, if you can remember the layout of the board and the rules, you can actually get better at the strategy of the game by for sure. Yeah. Just like you can practice other skills. Exactly. That's awesome. Yeah. Those are some that I'm I definitely haven't done yet either.

00;19;21;29 - 00;19;42;05
Unknown
My current dream plan right now is just to kind of explore the dream and to like, you know, make my body healthier, like, eat healthier. Yeah, I definitely want to work. I do have a, ongoing dream plan to work on healing. I'd like to be able to, work on my weight loss and other, like, health conditions that I have going on.

00;19;42;09 - 00;19;59;25
Unknown
Anything else on the list that you're looking forward to doing or not on the list that we haven't added to it yet? I like the idea of meeting fictional characters. I've become lucid when I realized the graphics are look like a Pokemon game and not like real life. Yeah. That's awesome. I think lucid dreaming is kind of like a game.

00;19;59;25 - 00;20;16;20
Unknown
Sometimes it feels like it's like virtual reality. And like they their studies have shown gamers of at least of certain genres of games tend out more or less to dreams. It might not be the kind of games I play, but it's certain genres and and it's really good for like teenagers who came and they want to use their lucid dreams for like fantasy.

00;20;16;20 - 00;20;32;06
Unknown
As Charlie Morelli says, his early ones were about skateboarding and sex because he was a teenage boy, and that was fantasies. Fair. Yeah, it's funny, you know, everyone can use it for whatever they use it for. But I've played some video games too, and I noticed that, like, I'll dream about the game mechanics and like how it works.

00;20;32;06 - 00;20;49;16
Unknown
And I think all sort of games that you have this avatar and you're making choices on behalf of the avatar, like, yeah, so, so that is kind of like the thought process of lucid dreaming. Like you're in this world and you're making choices. So like strengthening that skill set, I think is what transfers over into having more lucid dreams.

00;20;49;16 - 00;21;05;14
Unknown
Yeah, I would agree with that. When you mentioned speak other languages, what you could do is if you're learning a language, you could practice in the lucid dream. Yep. Can confirm I have done that and I actually wake up better. You know, like my accent is better. I feel like I know more words even. Yeah, I can, I can imagine that.

00;21;05;16 - 00;21;22;03
Unknown
I like the texting, the lizard dreamers of other lucid dreamers. Sometimes I, I, I've had this happen to me. It's either I don't have my phone or like I don't I can't access technology. It keeps failing. So like, it's not that we because like I use my phone all the time in, in real life, but in a lucid dream, it's just not there.

00;21;22;08 - 00;21;38;29
Unknown
Even in regular dreams, I don't notice it's not there. Yeah, it's 5050 for me. This is a big online debate too. Because sometimes I'll have my phone, but it'll be glitchy. Most of the time it's glitchy, it doesn't work. I'm getting frustrated. I try to use that as a cue, like, oh, this is a dream. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

00;21;38;29 - 00;22;08;08
Unknown
But other times I'll have my phone and it'll be working normally. So it really just depends. Yeah. And like sometimes I can read perfectly well and sometimes the words like change as if I'm like dyslexic or something. I'm definitely not dyslexic in real life because I read really quickly and I absorb information quickly. So but the in the and there's a reason for that, I think, I think studies have shown that you can use that as a reality task because, the part of the brain that's more offline dreaming is the part that has to do with processing words.

00;22;08;12 - 00;22;22;06
Unknown
But if someone's dyslexic and they try to use that as a reality task, they're like, oh, it must be. They're probably like, oh, it must just be my dyslexia. I'm not trained. Exactly. That's why it's a really find your own practice kind of thing, because reality checks, a lot of people don't like them or don't use them at all.

00;22;22;08 - 00;22;43;02
Unknown
Yeah. What I do, I wrote an I also wrote an article for the, lucid dreaming experience earlier in 2021 about reality tests. Sometimes they're called state tests. There's different names, but, the one I like to use is look at a digital clock and see if it turns into, like, the numbers either get glitchy or they turn into a time that you can't be read on a digital clock.

00;22;43;02 - 00;23;00;24
Unknown
Like you'll say, it'll say like 30, 34, and they'll be like, there's no 30 hour. Yeah, exactly. I do that to use the time and like small text. It really takes a mindfulness of like looking at it mindfully and not just like glancing at it. You know, you have to really see your environment. Yeah. I that I put that in the article.

00;23;00;24 - 00;23;19;00
Unknown
It's like how to do reality tests. The best. Well, not necessarily the best way, but it's like, don't just do it haphazardly. Because if you just do like not dreaming, not dreaming, and then that's what you'll do in the dream, you'll assume you're not dreaming. Exactly. I rather assume that I am dreaming. I, I yeah, I just did for a while.

00;23;19;00 - 00;23;36;14
Unknown
Always assume that I'm dreaming. Yeah. But, And then I remember we talked about this in, again, Charlie Morley's training because it's like, what if you have a client who's, like, at risk of psychosis, maybe don't teach them the reality test because that could increase their risk. Maybe teach them the other techniques about getting lucid. Yeah, exactly.

00;23;36;14 - 00;23;51;19
Unknown
You don't want someone to go jump off a window trying to see if they're in a dream. Yeah, because it's like, no, you're going to hurt yourself. You should. You should do that if you know you're in a dream. But if you're not sure, don't do that exactly. Even in a dream. Sometimes I have this doubt or I'm not fully lucid.

00;23;51;19 - 00;24;08;09
Unknown
So I'm like, let me not do this just in case something. Yeah, I have to do two reality tests in a row because, sometimes I, I'm not sure with the first one it's like, oh, okay, maybe this is just a glitchy screen and I'm not. And it's the text and it's the screen, the technology, not the fact that I'm dreaming.

00;24;08;16 - 00;24;24;02
Unknown
Exactly. I usually do two reality checks as well. That's a good tip. And I like reality checks, but yeah, like it. You got to do what works for you. Some people have a really hard time distinguishing dream and reality. Lucid dreaming has a lot of healing benefits, but like everything you know, it's a tool that may or may not be used for.

00;24;24;02 - 00;24;42;06
Unknown
For some people, it is an all skill. I had a childhood friend who I was really close to, and unfortunately she passed away last year because of chronic, illness. She was only in like her mid 30s, like she was four days older than me. And so I'd like to use the list to dream, to help heal the grief that I had from her dying young.

00;24;42;11 - 00;25;00;23
Unknown
Yeah. That is hard. I'm sorry for your loss. And I know that, you know it's not on all fixed problems, but dreams can offer us closure and healing connection to the loved ones. So. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it's a good like. Yeah. Do you have any closing advice for, like, people that are hurting and looking to their dreams for answers?

00;25;00;23 - 00;25;21;17
Unknown
It's a good idea to have a dream plan if you want to meet like a deceased loved one and like just maybe see them one last time or multiple last times. If you didn't get a chance to like, say goodbye like I didn't with my friend, because her death was sudden. But that that is again on my list of dream plans is to, like, see her again and say I'm.

00;25;21;17 - 00;25;40;07
Unknown
I'm sorry I couldn't see you again before you passed. And I hope you're feeling better now. Definitely. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. But I definitely do know that she is feeling better now and she already knows your heart. But I think when we invite our loved ones to the dream space, they are always excited to come that there are support team now.

00;25;40;10 - 00;25;58;19
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. They're there. They they're watching you from the other side. But hey you know, hopefully I wish you continue to encourage people to talk about dreams, whether it's your neighbor or your coworkers or whoever you stumble across the street, you know, don't be shy to be like, hey, I had this crazy dream. See what this. Yeah, exactly.

00;25;58;26 - 00;26;18;13
Unknown
All right, well, thanks for chatting. Let's definitely stay in touch, per usual. And, I really loved how this structure of this turned out, so I'll let you know once it's out and I'll post your, your article links to. Thank you. I love talking to you. It's it's been great.

00;26;18;15 - 00;26;27;28
Unknown
To.