EP112: The Art of Dreams: Surrealism, Lucidity & Symbolism

In this episode of The Dream World Podcast, Amina is joined by surrealist artist Megan Emily Ely, who shares how lifelong vivid dreaming shaped her creativity from childhood through her career as a design director in New York and ultimately led her back to her roots as a fine artist deeply inspired by the dream world.

Let's explore the intimate process of translating dreams into physical form, including Megan’s powerful near-death dream experience, recurring symbols, and how dreams act as emotional messengers, creative catalysts, and tools for self-reflection. Megan discusses her relationship with lucid dreaming, sleep paralysis, dream recall practices, and how honoring dreams through art helps preserve their meaning.

✨ Topics Covered:

• Vivid dreaming & creative identity
• Translating dream imagery into art
• Surrealism, symbolism & dream logic
• Lucid dreaming challenges & techniques
• Dreams as emotional and psychological tools
• Sleep paralysis, astral-like states & liminal awareness
• Dream journaling & recall practices
• Art as a way to honor and preserve dreams

🎨  Megan Emily Ely Links:

Website: https://www.meganemilyely.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elyiara_studio
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@elyiara_studio
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/meganemilyely

🎧 Listen & Explore More:
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Transcript

Megan, welcome to the Dreamworld podcast. I love when people like, find me through the internet and they're like, I love your podcast. I want to you know, talk about my dreams and my story and my art. So that's really cool that, you know that you're here. How did you get started with, like, the journey of vivid dreams?

00;00;27;03 - 00;00;52;28
Unknown
So, thank you again for having me on the show. Really excited to be here. And, for me, ever since childhood, I had very vivid dreams, and I just found them very fascinating. And they always felt very important to me. You know, I didn't know exactly why. And I think that they have always influenced my creativity, so pretty much I've always just love recording my dreams.

00;00;53;00 - 00;01;25;18
Unknown
My family also seems to have the same kind of thing because my mom dreams very vividly and one of my brothers as well. So, I guess always wanted to research more about it. And then when I was in high school, I was really focusing on art. And I actually did a project where I painted some elements for my dreams, and then, like, I wrote an essay on it, and that was kind of, I guess, where it really started for me, this whole combination of like, art and dreams and that's awesome.

00;01;25;18 - 00;01;48;01
Unknown
What's your process like of, like, taking something from your dream and like creating it in like waking life? How do you represent something? So, you know, dreamy. It's, you know, it's a challenge, but I love it. So, like, I guess back then, what I started doing was really if I had a scene in my head from my dream, I would really paint the scene.

00;01;48;04 - 00;02;14;25
Unknown
And I actually had some of my high school paintings that I can share, you know, just so you guys could see if you're interested. And pretty much that was a lot of it. And also symbols. So, like, I get a lot of symbols in my dreams and they seem to stand out as being really important. So sometimes now especially, I'll just combine different symbols from dreams or like my imagination and all sorts of inspiration that comes together.

00;02;14;28 - 00;02;38;04
Unknown
And it kind of creates this real world that, captures the feeling of my dreams. I love that I'd love to see one of them if you want to share. Like a dream that went with it or you know, your favorites, I have kind of a crazy story, if you're interested. For a dream. So my most intense dream that I remember, I'm sure I've had a lot, but one of them was when I was in high school.

00;02;38;04 - 00;02;59;06
Unknown
So back when this process was kind of getting started for me, I had this dream that, actually I died in the dream and my body floated out and I could see myself and it was like this euphoric feeling, like I felt euphoria. And it was I just thought it was so crazy because most people with they die in their dreams.

00;02;59;06 - 00;03;23;07
Unknown
They wake up. So it was kind of like I continued and, it was just whole dream. And it was really fascinating. Like, I was able to like, try to contact the people who knew me and, you know, they were kind of like feeling my vibe. And it was it was a very strange thing. And then I remember there was this scene of, like, me floating in the ocean and like, the theater, like theater curtain.

00;03;23;09 - 00;03;43;25
Unknown
And, so one of the paintings I did when I was in high school, so this was like the little cave thing. So this is back from when I was like, yeah. Like, I don't know, teenager. And you can see, like, the cartoons and, like, my body floating up and then this, like, stay of all of, like, the different, theater elements.

00;03;43;25 - 00;04;05;19
Unknown
So, so that's kind of an example of a more literal translation. And, a lot of these elements that stayed with me throughout my life because now, I'll show you this is a more recent painting. It's a print of it that I did. And you can see it still has the same elements. So it's like the theater and the ocean, but I kind of changed it up.

00;04;05;21 - 00;04;27;05
Unknown
So it's been really fun to, explore all these different symbols. That's really cool. Wow. You're really talented. I love those paintings. You're what type of paint or, like, mediums do you use? Well, thank you so much. I currently use oil paint, and I use a water mixed oil paint, which is great because it's less toxic and you can just clean it up with water.

00;04;27;05 - 00;04;47;19
Unknown
So it's easy, but it has like a really nice like you get really smooth finishes that kind of feel more surreal and dreamlike. So I prefer that to acrylic, but I still do some acrylic paintings as well. So it's it's been a fun process, and I want to start doing my sculpture again because I did some sculpture when I was younger, and that was really fun.

00;04;47;19 - 00;05;06;21
Unknown
That's awesome. I love the concept of like, dying in your dreams. I think it's really cool and I know, kind of creepy, but I've also had similar ones where it's like peaceful. I'm like happy and at peace. And I'm most mostly sad for like my family and stuff, but not like for myself. So it's really cool. It's given me that like release of like being scared of dying.

00;05;06;24 - 00;05;28;18
Unknown
Yeah. Me too. I feel like, right now, kind of. My philosophy is almost like, this is a dream that we're living, you know, like one dream and we're going to wake up into this other realm and I kind of feel like that dream world feels like that to me. So, I love dreaming, I love sleeping, it's just, always been such a great kind of escape for me.

00;05;28;18 - 00;05;49;19
Unknown
That's like, I guess I. Healthy escape. Yeah. Same here, I love that. Are you a lucid dreamer at all? Like, how often are you lucid? So that's what I wanted to talk to you about as well. And get your advice, because I don't know if I've ever fully lucid dreamed. Pretty much what will happen is, as soon as I realize it's a dream, I wake myself up and I can't stop doing that.

00;05;49;19 - 00;06;09;10
Unknown
So I was wondering if you have any advice for how to get over that part of it. Yeah, that's so common. I mean, it is still a lucid dream, even if it's a short one. But let me ask you this. Like what's the process like? Like what leads you to realize it's a dream and like, does it just get weaker and fade away, or do you consciously decide like, okay, let me end this and wake up?

00;06;09;12 - 00;06;28;15
Unknown
I think it's I think it's like something will happen in the dream that all of a sudden my brain's like, wait a minute, like, this isn't real. And then that'll wake me up. But, like, it's weird because part of me really wants to lucid dream because it sounds so incredible. But then part of me, I think it likes the, like, fantasy.

00;06;28;15 - 00;06;49;12
Unknown
Like, it's like my brain likes to pretend that I'm in that world and that it's real. So maybe that's why it's like, give me up. But I really want to get to that point where I can stay in the dream and manipulate things. So yeah, for sure. I definitely think you can. It can take some practice, but I think what you have so far is the hard part, which is just getting to that point of realizing like, hey, this must be a dream.

00;06;49;12 - 00;07;11;14
Unknown
You know, this is off. But that's cool. And sometimes, you know, you can still go with the narrative of the dream, even just like observing it without controlling or changing it. So you can still retain that level of just flow with it. But do you have, like, a dream plan of, like, what do you want to do if you if you're able to stay in the dream, like let's say you have that moment and then you don't wake up, like, what do you want to do?

00;07;11;16 - 00;07;28;20
Unknown
I don't have a specific plan, but that's actually really interesting. I don't want to work on that. I definitely want to fly. Because I've had a few dreams where I kind of flew like that one I was talking about, but, I don't fly often in my dreams, so I think that's something, you know, that a lot of people want to do.

00;07;28;22 - 00;07;50;16
Unknown
But I'm not sure what else. I'm going to definitely make a list. Yeah, it's good to have some things, like in the back of your mind. Flying is so fun. It's a classic. There's like different ways people do it. But if you have like 1 or 2 things that, you know, like are your next attempts of what you're going to do, it kind of helps prepare your brain to be like, okay, I'm lucid, I have a plan, so I'm going to stay in the dream.

00;07;50;16 - 00;08;08;10
Unknown
You know, you're preparing yourself for staying in there. And that's a great idea. Yeah, exactly. And some people just kind of get excited and wake up. So I don't know if it's an element of that, but kind of working on just staying calm and like looking around in the dream before you're like, oh my God, I am freaking out because I'm in a dream, you know?

00;08;08;12 - 00;08;28;27
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. Well, I'll definitely try that. I think that could definitely help where it's like I'm getting ready to to do something in that. So how long have you been lucid dreaming? For a long time. Like over 20 years. Because I started this dream when I was a kid, and I'm 30 now, so. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, exactly.

00;08;28;27 - 00;09;00;24
Unknown
So I, you know, I've had a long time to practice and now, you know, it's kind of my thing to teach people and help people do more with their lucid dreams and explore further. So yeah, it's cool. That's amazing. Yeah, I definitely want to get more into that. The only other thing that, well, I've definitely had sleep paralysis unfortunately, many times, which is not fun, but, I also did have an experience where it was like, what I've read is similar to, astral projection, like kind of going into that phase.

00;09;00;26 - 00;09;19;18
Unknown
And that was a really unique experience. But I don't think I fully went there again because I think I was scared. Yeah, I think we definitely put up our own walls. And, you know, beliefs and fears. A lot of people, they get scared and they're like, oh my God, I'm leaving my body. And then they come back, you know, kind of similar thing.

00;09;19;25 - 00;09;40;21
Unknown
Yeah. And yeah, it kind of overlaps. You know what you call these liminal phases of sleep where you're in sleep paralysis or half awake, half asleep. Astral projection, like the terms kind of vary, but it's important to just explore for yourself and like, see what happens. Yeah, I think so too. Because dreams have been, like, such a big part of my creativity.

00;09;40;21 - 00;09;57;21
Unknown
Like, I want to kind of delve and deeper as I can. I definitely do keep a dream journal. Most recently, I do it in my I have a note in my phone because that way if I wake up right away, I can, you know, type it down. But I do like traditional journals, too. Yeah, I do the same.

00;09;57;21 - 00;10;16;14
Unknown
I usually use my phone for convenience, but, you know, sometimes I'll use a paper if I'm like in a different situation. Are your dreams usually like, do you ever paint and make art in your dreams, or is it more so? You see these cool scenes and then you decide to paint them? I don't think I've ever painted in my dream before, which is really interesting.

00;10;16;17 - 00;10;39;00
Unknown
I just see very cool things and that will stand out to me. And that's kind of what I'll paint like. Recently I did a painting called A New Perspective, and it's like this whale in the sky. And I saw that in my dream, and it was so beautiful. And I changed it of that for my art, you know, just because, you know, as an artist, there's certain things you want to do.

00;10;39;02 - 00;10;57;23
Unknown
But yeah, I think it's mostly like that for me, like, kind of just, translating what I see. And to artwork, I love that. How does it feel to, like, honor the dream and, like, give it something physical? Does it, like, change anything about how you interpret or feel about the dream when you like, give it that representation.

00;10;57;26 - 00;11;16;28
Unknown
It it's really a positive feeling, I think, because dreams, you know, are so like you can't really grasp them, you know, and they can disappear so easily. I think it's like it does feel like I'm honoring the dream, to actually get it, like in a physical thing. And I'm really trying to get people to think more about dreams.

00;11;16;28 - 00;11;36;19
Unknown
And, you know, where we dream so much of our life, like, it has to be extremely important. I don't think science really knows quite yet, how important they are, but I'm trying to get more people to think about their dreams than, different realities through my work. You mentioned earlier that, like, your family is also vivid dreamers.

00;11;36;19 - 00;11;53;09
Unknown
What was that like? Like growing up with people that kind of talked about dreams and, you know, did it make you feel like you were crazy? I mean, it was that part was really awesome because, my mom was just there's always that sort of a dreamer and always talking about, like, kind of like prophetic dreams, which I have some as well.

00;11;53;09 - 00;12;11;29
Unknown
And, you know, that would kind of predict things that are going to happen. And, you know, she was just always very interested in it, and she didn't kind of delve into it as deeply as I have. But, having that kind of supportive environment, I think is kind of what pushed me to continue to explore it.

00;12;12;01 - 00;12;34;26
Unknown
And, my oldest brother also loves dreams, and he did a project as well on, Dream Research when he was younger. So it's definitely something in the family. How about you? Are you does your family also have it, or are you, like, the only one? So I'm kind of the one that brought everybody to get interested and start paying attention to their dreams.

00;12;34;28 - 00;12;51;11
Unknown
Like, my mom's not much of a dreamer, you know, she has, like, insomnia. So I've been helping her dream better. But I did find out through that process of, like, being the, you know, dreamy weirdo of the family, that my dad is also a lucid dreamer and my brother was. Maybe there is a genetic aspect to it somewhere in there.

00;12;51;14 - 00;13;13;22
Unknown
But they're both super lucid, and then my other brother is not, so I'm, you know, I don't know, I'm kind of trying to, you know, be ready to dream better. Oh that's awesome. Well, I think it it really helps me. I think psychologically, you know, they say to work through things. And I think the symbol is, like, I love kind of analyzing my dreams afterwards and really trying to figure out, like, what the symbols mean for me.

00;13;13;25 - 00;13;51;02
Unknown
And I do think it helps me work through problems. So it's also been really helpful in like that kind of more, literal sense. Yeah. That's awesome. Do you have like, any examples or stories of like a time that a dream has helped you figure something out or, you know, solve a problem or something? I think I have heard that I can't think of like a specific, but I do think I've had that where I definitely work through problems and, and like, I have a lot of those dreams that are like the teeth falling out, dreams that are really common and stuff like that, that I think those usually when they happen, they just feel

00;13;51;02 - 00;14;13;23
Unknown
different and like there's another one, other ones that I have that are kind of, see more like an omen, almost like, I have some about snakes sometimes. And also cockroaches. So those are like some of my dreams that are kind of these, like negative omens. And I think that's really my brain telling me to pay attention and wake up to some problem in my life.

00;14;13;26 - 00;14;32;03
Unknown
So I think in that way they've helped me to figure out, like, okay, this is a problem I need to take care of. And, you know, going through the symbolism to kind of work on it that way. Like definitely things with like jobs, relationships, and that kind of thing. Yeah. So how do you approach, like, interpreting your dreams?

00;14;32;05 - 00;14;49;26
Unknown
Because I know it's such a personal thing, you know. Do you ever look stuff up or, do you go back in your dream journal? I do both, I do love researching. So I will kind of look up different, you know, from different sources. So I can kind of cross-check. But I also think about, like, what does that symbol mean to me?

00;14;49;26 - 00;15;14;10
Unknown
You know, like, what is my history with that symbol? So it could be something from my childhood or, you know, any age. And that will just be like, okay, that reminds me of something. I start certain time, so I'll usually tie it that way. And also, I think the feeling of the dream is important. I've noticed that certain ways that they feel like you can get a positive or a negative feeling or something really intense.

00;15;14;10 - 00;15;32;06
Unknown
So, yeah, I think you can get like a lot from the mood of the dream. So yeah, definitely the feeling is so important. I tell people that all the time. Like, even if I can't remember details of the dream, I'll just write down how I feel when I woke up or whatever's lingering emotionally from the dream. And sometimes that'll give me a glimpse.

00;15;32;06 - 00;15;55;00
Unknown
I'm like, what's going on in my brain, you know, even if I don't remember the actual narrative. Yeah, exactly. It's I got this thing. I don't know if you ever get this. So lately when I dream, fam, I forget my dreams sometimes, you know, as they go about my day. But then as soon as I go get ready to go to bed at night, I remember the dream from the previous night and and it's so interesting because I never used to do that.

00;15;55;00 - 00;16;11;12
Unknown
But now it's happening all the time. That's awesome. I really love when that happens. It's almost like when we start to enter this like more relaxed state, we kind of open up these memories. For me, it's kind of sometimes randomly throughout the day, I'll see something and then I'll trigger a dream memory and I'm like, oh yeah, my dream.

00;16;11;12 - 00;16;31;12
Unknown
And I like when that happens because I'm like the memories and you just have to unlock it somehow. Yeah, I know my dream would be to have, like, a someday. Like a way we could record our dreams and watch them, you know, just be so amazing. I know that's the big, like goal, but it also brings so many, like, ethical potential disasters.

00;16;31;12 - 00;17;00;02
Unknown
But it sounds cool in theory. I wish I could have that one. Exactly. I'm like dispersed it all and but yeah, it would be really, really interesting just to be able to watch back everything that happens. I wish I would just re-experience. For now, all we can do is try to reenter the same dream. Yeah, exactly. So one question I have for you is, do you feel, like sensations in your dreams, like pain or heat and cold and that kind of thing?

00;17;00;05 - 00;17;21;07
Unknown
I do sometimes it's weird. So I've done this while lucid to kind of experiment where I will literally intentionally try to touch a burning stove or something, and I can feel it, like I feel everything so vividly. All of my senses are, like, fully immersed, you know, I can smell, taste. I'll intentionally really like, hone in on those senses when I'm lucid just to really experience them.

00;17;21;07 - 00;17;39;13
Unknown
And I'm always shocked at how realistic they are. The weird thing about pain and like heat is, it doesn't. It hurts, but it doesn't hurt is really weird. Like, it's like this burning sensation. But it almost feels like there's a threshold where, like, before it, like, is an insane amount of pain. It kind of resets and it's just heating burn.

00;17;39;15 - 00;17;56;26
Unknown
But somehow they feel full on pain. So it really just depends on a dream for me. I can experience that. I remember, like, washing my hands in a dream, and I could feel the water and, like, the warm water. And then one time I had this, like, really bad pain in my head. It was like, horrible.

00;17;56;26 - 00;18;16;06
Unknown
And the dream. And I woke up and I figured I'd be in pain or something and it was gone. So that was really weird to. Yeah, that's cool. I definitely believe that, like, dreams can help us with, like, healing powers. And sometimes I'll do something in a dream and I'll wake up with that feeling still radiating on my physical body.

00;18;16;08 - 00;18;37;25
Unknown
You know, kind of how something what they say they were, you know, fighting in their dreams and they wake up with scars and bruises. I always thought that was really interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. I know when I was little, I guess I used to sleepwalk song and I, like, also talked in my sleep. So like, I think I always had like a lot going on with the dreams, but that I don't think I do that now.

00;18;38;01 - 00;18;56;29
Unknown
At least my husband doesn't stay, so that's good. Yeah, I guess it's more common for kids to sleepwalk. It's still a scary concept because I'm like, that can be so dangerous. What if interest outside? I guess I used to, like, walk to the office near the top of the stairs, and my mom was like, oh my God, but everything's fine.

00;18;56;29 - 00;19;23;20
Unknown
But it was. Yeah, interesting for sure. And then, I was going to talk a little bit about, saw my art influence because, a lot of my influences also have this, like, love, dreams. So, you know, my art is called dreamscape. Surrealist art is how I classify it. And I think that is a good kind of terminology because I want to create these, like, dreamy environments.

00;19;23;23 - 00;19;45;14
Unknown
And then, surrealist art is a big part of my work as well. And I'm a huge fan of like, Salvador Dali work. And, a lot of those artists that have that kind of feeling of just like things melting or like things that don't belong, and it feels very dreamlike. Like M.C. Escher with the staircase then.

00;19;45;16 - 00;20;10;28
Unknown
So it's been it's been great to kind of have these influences, like from my childhood and like, use them in my art going forward as an adult. Like even, fantasy, like Alice in Wonderland has been a big influence for me. And that kind of going down the rabbit hole, definitely feels like dreaming. So I've kind of combines fantasy with, surrealism to kind of create my own look.

00;20;11;00 - 00;20;30;16
Unknown
Yeah. That's awesome. Really cool. And I think, you know, some solid influences for sure. I'm a huge Salvador Dali fan. I'm sure you know how he used to, like, purposely take naps and then we can self up and then immediately, like, you know, sketch or paint what he saw. So it's really cool how he literally brings things over this border of consciousness.

00;20;30;18 - 00;20;56;05
Unknown
Intentionally. So yeah, that's really cool. I love people that use their dreamscapes to create like that, especially if you have the skill to be able to do that, because, I mean, I've seen some cool things in my dreams, but I could never draw them at all. You never know. It's all practice. But, like, seriously? Yeah, I agree, like with Salvador Dali and all of them, I feel like when you're like a surrealist artist, like you're on the same wavelength as others.

00;20;56;05 - 00;21;17;03
Unknown
Like, we use a lot of the same symbols, and we feel a lot of the same things. And I feel like it's all coming from that dream world. So I find that really fascinating. And I think, like, you're, like, part of that world, like, even if you're not, creating are actively creating art. It's kind of like, I feel like you would understand that, like kind of world of different symbols that we're seeing.

00;21;17;05 - 00;21;36;27
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. I think we're all connected in that way. And we're all creative in so many different ways, you know? And when I'm lucid in my dreams, you know, I have unlimited resources to make art and sculptures, and I do. Wow. They draw in the sky or whatever. So then I was, they say. Exactly. So those are some ideas of fun things you can do in your lucid dreams.

00;21;36;27 - 00;21;54;21
Unknown
If you're feeling artsy, say, oh wow, that's so amazing. You should try to like, you should try to recreate them in life or even with like, AI or something. See how like do that. Sometimes I'll use I, sometimes I'll draw. I'm not very good at it, but I'll sketch for fun and just to give my dream some life.

00;21;54;23 - 00;22;17;03
Unknown
Yeah. And then I think that helps you remember your dreams better too. When you like sketch or especially write it down. So I love that. It's really fun. Definitely. It definitely, like, locks it into your brain when you do the physical hand to paper kind of thing. Even if I just tell somebody my dream, I already remember it more, you know, like it's best thing in the morning, at least to get something down.

00;22;17;03 - 00;22;46;13
Unknown
So you can remember, because once you get your day started, the dream starts to fade. Usually. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I've been trying to do it like, right as I wake up or even in the middle of the night. Sometimes I'll, like, wake up and write something down in my phone. Yeah, that's good and that's a good time if you do that, to kind of think about being lucid because you're kind of still half sleepy, you know, so you can kind of, you know, set the intention of like, you know, if I, if I go back to sleep, I'll try to remember that I'm in a dream, you know, especially if I don't know if you

00;22;46;13 - 00;23;15;29
Unknown
have nightmares ever. But that's a big lucidity trigger for me because I'm like, this is so scary and terrible. I hope that I'm dreaming. And then I become lucid. Oh, that's good. I have done that here and there, but luckily not too often. Knock on wood. But I have had my share for sure. But that's interesting too. So for me too, I think my dreams, affect me physically because, I do have a lot of chronic fatigue, and I think it's the heart of it because I dream so vividly and so intense.

00;23;16;01 - 00;23;35;21
Unknown
Like, sometimes I have dreams that are just, like, flying. Like, it's like, so fast, so many interesting, like, intricate things going on. And I love it, though, so, like, I wouldn't trade it, you know, it's like, I don't like waking up tired, but I feel like it's worth it for, the experience. Yeah. For sure. You know, a lot of people have that problem.

00;23;35;21 - 00;23;51;14
Unknown
I get that question a lot. I'm glad that you embrace it and that you love it, because that's that's really good. But a lot of people are like, no, I don't want to dream anymore. Yeah. To help them through setting the intention for restful sleep, because you can still have dreams and feel rested. It just takes practice.

00;23;51;14 - 00;24;10;23
Unknown
I think. Yeah, I think it for me it depends maybe on how active my mind is that particular day or something. Yeah, especially with lucid dreaming. A lot of people are worried about that. But sometimes I wake up even more refreshed when I'm lucid because I just feel like I'm relaxing. It's like a little mental limitation, even though I'm conscious.

00;24;11;00 - 00;24;27;10
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So it depends. You know, everybody's different. You know, you got to explore for yourself and then come on the podcast and let me know how it went. Yeah I definitely well I think that makes sense. Like if you can control the dream then it's more relaxing because it's like obviously when you can't, you know, anything can happen.

00;24;27;10 - 00;24;44;15
Unknown
Like you're kind of at the whim of the dream. So that's interesting to think about. And a very positive way. Yeah, exactly. It really just depends. You know, everybody I've heard both sides of it. Some people are like, oh, I'm exhausted when I control it because I'm doing more mental work and I just want to go with it so I can just observe.

00;24;44;19 - 00;25;01;05
Unknown
But then that's more emotional because sometimes you're like, the dream is taking you in all these different ways. So it's just, you know, it varies. Oh, that's so incredible. A lot of it also depends on our waking life state. You know, if someone's stressed out a lot and they're anxious, I think their sleep life is going to reflect that as well.

00;25;01;05 - 00;25;31;14
Unknown
So yeah, there's a lot of factors. Absolutely. Do you think like if you take melatonin or something or those kind of things, like have they affected your dreams. Yeah. So melatonin is known in high doses to give people nightmares. Like it's a whole thing of melatonin dreams. And some people like it. Some people don't. I like vivid dreams, but it's more effective in small doses, like 2 to 5mg if you're just using it to sleep better and, you know, get sleepier.

00;25;31;16 - 00;25;52;24
Unknown
So a lot of people don't know that and they end up regretting having nightmares that that makes sense. I use it here and there, and I do think my dreams were definitely a bit more vivid, but they're already vivid, so I was just curious. Like it your experience was I've experimented as well with like, other dream enhancing herbs and supplements and things, and there's so many.

00;25;52;24 - 00;26;09;09
Unknown
I have a YouTube video I'm just going through about, oh, I gotta look, look at that. That's, one of my favorites is Blue Lotus. It's like a tea. Some people like it. It's like an ancient Egyptian flower. You know, there's a lot of natural stuff. And then there's the supplement sides. But, yeah, it's it's fun.

00;26;09;09 - 00;26;29;05
Unknown
You know, even things like vitamin B6, which is a pretty basic over-the-counter. A lot of people say it increases their dream record significantly. So I recommend that I'll go to I'm going to try that. And The Blue Lotus sounds great. So do you when you lucid dream, or when you go into a dream, how quickly can you get to like, a lucid state these days?

00;26;29;07 - 00;26;45;17
Unknown
It depends. Like, every dream is different. Sometimes I'll have a long, hour long dream and I'll just become lucid at the end of it. You know, sometimes I'll be more intentional with it, and I'll get lucid right away, and then I'll stay lucid for the whole dream. Sometimes I get lucid and then I go non lucid and I go back and forth.

00;26;45;22 - 00;27;05;29
Unknown
It's such a fluid thing. I would say I get lucid like 3 to 5 times a week at this phase in my life, which is way more than most people even once ask them. I'm like, good for you. Most you know, most people do lucid dreams at often, so that's amazing. I feel like my brother is going to want to talk to you because he is really into lucid dreaming.

00;27;06;00 - 00;27;29;08
Unknown
I think he's been able to do it more than me. So I'm curious, the the, you know, what his experiences have been to? I haven't really talked to him about, a lot of the specifics, but yeah, it's cool. I feel like talking to him or, you know, you just telling people about your dream goals is going to help you really get more lucidity and more recall, because our brain is already thinking about, you know, what to do in the dream space.

00;27;29;10 - 00;27;46;08
Unknown
But yeah, I think, you're already pretty much there. You just need to work on that dream stabilization, as they call it, which is like, let the dream last longer and get grounded into your dream body so you can, you know, do more in the dream. But you're almost there. You got it. All right. I am confident I can do it, but that's awesome.

00;27;46;08 - 00;28;01;12
Unknown
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. Yeah, you're a natural. I mean, anybody who has been vivid dreaming their whole life, you know, like us, you totally got it. It's like a it's like going to the gym. You know, you don't get abs after a week, unfortunately. Right? Do it as we wish. But. Yeah, exactly. It's like a lifelong journey.

00;28;01;12 - 00;28;22;29
Unknown
Honestly. Some people get lucid after like months of trying, some people after a couple days, some people years, you know. But I always tell people, don't get frustrated, you know, all your dreams, like write them all down. Some people get so focused on just being lucid that they a lot. Yeah, I think that's really good advice to give people because it's like it seems it's so, you know, it is so cool.

00;28;22;29 - 00;28;46;18
Unknown
I'm sure, to lucid dream. But it's like even the dreams themselves, they're so fascinating. So do you do a lot of, analyzing your dreams as well? Sometimes. Like the ones that I feel are big and powerful, that have like an emotional, you know, pull on me, I will, you know, like you said, sometimes look stuff up or share with people to get like some perspectives, or ask I which sometimes helpful, sometimes not.

00;28;46;18 - 00;29;02;16
Unknown
You know, you kind of have to have a grain of salt with it, but I just gather data on it just to kind of meditate on it a bit or draw or whatever I got to do to process the dream. But even if I, you know, even if I don't analyze, I try not to go overthink it too much.

00;29;02;16 - 00;29;21;24
Unknown
But I do try to record as much detail as I can on my dream journal. Yeah. Me too. That's awesome. Yeah. I like to look at, like, common symbols, like over the course of like months, for example, like, what am I seeing a lot in terms of people, environments or objects? And then I kind of use those to think about like what that could mean, or like where my head's at, you know.

00;29;21;27 - 00;29;41;14
Unknown
Yeah, I agree. And like if I keep having recurring I recurring dream, I'm like, okay, I really need to pay attention here because that's been happening a lot to me lately. So I'm like, I think I need to delve into that. Yeah. And those are good for lucid dreaming because you can train your brain to be like, next time I see said recurring thing, I will know it's a dream because I always have that in my dream.

00;29;41;14 - 00;30;01;18
Unknown
And then, oh, and for what you want to do this time and maybe change the ending or whatever, you know, oh, that's a good idea. Wait, I'm going to write that down. So yeah, that's a super good tip. That helps a lot. Like recurring dreams are kind of like a nice little hack for lucid dreaming. Okay. And isn't there also like, something about, like, an object that you can,

00;30;01;21 - 00;30;20;16
Unknown
I forget how it works. Like, if you like, if you have, like, a certain object in real life and connecting it to a dream, somehow I forget what the story is. But. So it's kind of like a reality check anchor situation. So let's say you have like a cool rock or something, ideally something that you'll see in your dream often.

00;30;20;16 - 00;30;41;29
Unknown
So if you have something that you see in a dream, you know, kind of like the inception little. Yeah. That's what I was thinking of. Yeah. And so what you do is like during the day when you're conscious in awake, you look at this item and you think about it like, this is my dream symbol. You know, it represents lucidity, trying to be lucid in that moment, you know, lucid living, practice.

00;30;41;29 - 00;31;00;25
Unknown
Like, what would I do if I was in a dream right now? You know, really try to get into that mentality and just do this as, like a habit throughout the day. Like, use it as a reality check. Like, am I dreaming right now? Am I not? Every time I see this thing, you know, every time you have the object in your hand or you see it, you really, really think about if you're in a dream or not, you know, whatever reality you want to make up.

00;31;00;25 - 00;31;20;24
Unknown
And then the idea is that next time you're dreaming, you know, because you get this habit, you'll either see the object in your dream and you'll have that same thought process of like, maybe this is a dream, and then you'll be like, oh, it is a dream. Is. Yeah. So cool. Oh, cool. Man, I can't wait. Yeah. Oh, that's really, really amazing.

00;31;20;27 - 00;31;47;29
Unknown
So are you, partnering or like, looking into more dream research or, anything like that? Yeah, I am there's a couple different, like, organizations and, researchers that I'm working with just to kind of do independent studies. And then I also am working on getting my PhD. I have been like, committed to a program or anything yet, but I do want to do like my own dream research, with like, just like a different organizations.

00;31;47;29 - 00;32;06;09
Unknown
There's not many places in the world that study lucid dreaming, but they are out there. So yeah. That's amazing. Well, I hope that, you can lead the way because it seems like you have so much experience in it. And, you know, I was looking for that as well. I was like, I want to partner with someone or learn more about it.

00;32;06;11 - 00;32;27;08
Unknown
You know, or understand why I dream so vividly. So yeah. Well, there is one big organization that I'm a part of is the IAC, which is International Association for the Study of Dreams. They're super cool. They do like conferences in the States, or online and things like that. So if you or anybody listening, you know, check them out, follow them on Instagram.

00;32;27;08 - 00;32;51;07
Unknown
Their, their next conference is in Oregon. So I'm going to be at that one in June. Oh on these then. Yeah definitely check them out then. And they always post stuff online of just like the latest research studies and you know what's going on. So that's a good way to get all the updates. Ask them. Yeah. Was there anything else that, you know, you had on your mind or questions or anything.

00;32;51;15 - 00;33;13;17
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. And I as far as my art journey goes, you know, just so listeners kind of know a little more like previously, I was in design. That's actually what I went to college for. So I went to college at it and New York City and study design. And then I worked in New York as a design director for many years.

00;33;13;19 - 00;33;38;07
Unknown
And I worked at Estée Lauder. So I was their design director for, like, accessories and packaging. And, I mean, I think just having my dreams help with my creativity. Like, I think that kind of even could spread into that world where it's like a little bit more restrictive. But then once the pandemic hit, I really started focusing on my my art more, and I realized how important the dreams were for me.

00;33;38;07 - 00;33;56;10
Unknown
And and then I remembered like, oh, I did this in high school, but it's like I forgot almost that I had done like I was already doing this, you know? So it's been amazing to kind of rediscover it. Yeah. Connecting with like our teenage sober inner child because we're such that age is really it's such a healing thing.

00;33;56;10 - 00;34;18;29
Unknown
And dreams are so therapeutic in that way. Yeah, absolutely. And, I recently did, an art show in New York. I was at the Clio Art fair, and, another one in New York, the Gracie Square Art show. And I have a couple shows coming up in the city so people can find that on my website. And I also be posting on my Instagram.

00;34;19;01 - 00;34;41;08
Unknown
Cool. Yeah. What's your website and your Instagram? I'll put the link in the notes, but it's good to say it. So yeah. So you can find my website. It's Megan on the Lee ely.com and my Instagram is Ilia Underscore studio. But if you just search my name like and Emily Elliott will come up that's probably easier. Aura is a word that I made up from.

00;34;41;08 - 00;35;02;21
Unknown
My last name is Ellie. And I wanted something that kind of felt like a magical land. And that's really where that came from. So awesome, I love it. Well, I appreciate you coming on and like, sharing about your journey with me. And really just like having the guts to reach out, it really means a lot to me that like, my show is reaching people and people are excited to talk about dreams.

00;35;02;21 - 00;35;12;13
Unknown
You know, it's what I do is just normalize telling me and talking about dreams. Oh, absolutely. Well, I'm so thankful for you and I'm glad we met.

00;35;12;15 - 00;35;12;20
Unknown
You.