EP113: Exploring the Web of Dreams

In this episode, I connect with Wind Horsley, an Intuitive Dream Guide and Dream Work Coach. Wind shares her journey from childhood daydreamer to sacred dream guide. She explains her own framework called the Web of Dreams — a way of understanding dreams as interconnected pathways rather than rigid interpretations. This conversation moves from practical dream recall tips to profound questions about whether this waking life might itself be a dream. 

🌙 About Wind Horsley

Dream guide, sacred dream worker, and facilitator working with the Web of Dreams framework. Based in Canton/Holly Springs area. Offers private sessions and classes.

Email: sacreddreamreadings@yahoo.com
Facebook

📚 Mentioned in This Episode

• The Wisdom of Your Dreams – Jeremy Taylor
• Jeremy Taylor’s Dream Group Method (“If it were my dream…”)
• Jennifer Dumpert – Liminal Dreaming
• The Four Agreements – Don Miguel Ruiz
• The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep

✍️ Practical Dream Tips from This Episode

• Set intention before sleep
• Create a dream altar or nighttime ritual
• Record dreams like a reporter (no interpretation yet)
• Title your dream before analyzing it
• Notice which symbols emotionally “light up”
• Work creatively (sketch, sculpt, scrapbook)
• Allow time before interpreting

Transcript

Working with the sacred dream consciousness, where we begin to realize that this reality is the dream of the world. And like where the dreamer were dreaming into being. This reality, both collective unconscious level and collective conscious level. And so the last few days, I'm sure that you've seen things. I mean, the world's been hard, and I think we're seeing that in real time.

So welcome to the podcast. Wynn, hoarsely. I'm excited to talk to you today. I've seen your content online, and I've seen you around in the in the ISD hallways. So I'm excited to finally connect on the podcast. I know you do a lot of things. You know, you're a dream worker, your sacred dream guide, and, you do energy work and a lot of different things in this field.

00;00;58;27 - 00;01;26;03
Unknown
So how did you get started, with this journey? Have you always been a dreamer? I have, thank you so much for having me on. Let me. That. I was very much the quintessential childhood dreamer. Kind of a day dreamer. When we talk about childhood and things we did to survive our childhood. I very much clicked out into the dream realms and was very much a day.

00;01;26;06 - 00;02;05;07
Unknown
A daydreamer, highly imaginative. So working within those realms was nothing new for me. Growing up, I sort of began a spiritual journey, so to speak. And in that field, things like yoga and meditation and energy work in those things kind of called to me. When I came back specifically to dreaming, I remember I had a reoccurring dream many, many times since.

00;02;05;07 - 00;02;38;15
Unknown
I want to say late teens, early 20s. And I started having it again in my 40s and just became very curious this time about like, really? What does it mean? And two things sort of happened simultaneously. One was I was invited to a dream share group in which they used, formatting by Jeremy Taylor, and it was explained to me who Jeremy Taylor was in kind of his, foundational work for group work.

00;02;38;17 - 00;03;24;17
Unknown
And I was fascinated, went right out and bought, The Wisdom of Your dreams and have read it so many times. I mean, it's literally cleaved into it in two different pieces. The second thing that happened is I am online, as many are these days, and I'm in groups, and I happened to be in a group where people would occasionally post a dream, and they sort of inherently knew that there was some sort of meeting to the dream, but they didn't know how to go about figuring out the meaning, because we're kind of trained to be logic minded walking around in this plane of existence.

00;03;24;19 - 00;03;57;02
Unknown
And when you try to decipher dreams from the logical mind, they sort of don't make sense. And people would ask questions or people would say, well, maybe it means this. And I would kind of think about it. And then I would kind of give things that were coming to me. And almost inevitably, the original poster would hone in on my pose and be like, oh, you have me in tears, or that makes so much sense or something that really kind of encouraged it.

00;03;57;05 - 00;04;28;14
Unknown
So I work with a group called Soul Medicine, and we were doing vision boards, and on my vision board I found a magazine cutout that said dream really Big. And I was putting it on my vision board and my mentor saw it and she was like, oh, it's this. And so I told her, just sort of blurted out that I kept seeing these dreams in these groups, and I would try to kind of decipher the meaning.

00;04;28;14 - 00;04;54;09
Unknown
And I seem to be pretty good at it. And that I recalled back in high school being really good at English and literature and poetry, being able to pull out symbolism in and create meaning in that way. And so a little bit later on, somebody was talking about their dream and she said, oh, I saw wings, ears just perk up.

00;04;54;11 - 00;05;18;07
Unknown
And then she said, what do you think about this dream? And so I sort of just started doing what I do. And the person was like, wow. And then she had a dream and she had me, interpret her dream. And so just started going on a quest of telling everybody, hey, if you have a dream, let me see what I can do with it.

00;05;18;09 - 00;05;53;08
Unknown
And so, working with dreams outside of my own dreams, I kind of started that way. I wanted it to be a collective effort, though, which is why I don't use myself as a dream interpreter, because that feels to me almost intrusive, like, I'm going to tell you what your dream means to you. So when I started out, it sort of ended up being that way, even though I didn't mean it to be that way just because I had to sort of evolve my own being and.

00;05;53;10 - 00;05;59;23
Unknown
I know that one thing.

00;05;59;25 - 00;06;29;20
Unknown
Symbolically can have multiple meanings in those meanings, sometimes can overlay on top of each other. So in terms of like the limitations of my own English language, trying to figure out how to say that, I sort of started out saying, well, on one level it could mean this, and on another level it could mean that. And I don't like the word levels because it gives us a sense of hierarchy where the bottom's kindergarten and the top is graduation, and our brains are wired to go.

00;06;29;20 - 00;06;42;17
Unknown
We want to be on the graduate level. So I'm thinking, how can I describe this without that kind of sort of level or hierarchal sense?

00;06;42;19 - 00;07;15;08
Unknown
And I am part Native American and I do work with, as I said, a group name, Soul Medicine, and we do sweat lodges every week. And so inside of a sweat lodge, I met a figure named Grandmother Spider, and in terms of dreams and how I wanted to work with them, it came to me like this that you, the dreamer, are in the center of a web.

00;07;15;10 - 00;07;44;24
Unknown
And then all these threads coming out that form the web are these pathways of exploration. And so I've created something that I call the Web of Dreams. And this is the way that I work with dreams and for myself and for others is being able to explore all those pathways. And so then makes it sort of fun because we can become like explorers.

00;07;44;26 - 00;08;14;13
Unknown
Exploring all these different pathways, and some of them can be connected to the past and some of them to the present, some of them deep inner work and some as they relate. You know that interrelatedness that webs teach to to those directly around you, or even tying into the collective conscious and the collective unconscious. And that was a term that I learned from Jeremy Taylor's book, because we talk about the collective conscious that we are all so connected to the collective unconscious.

00;08;14;15 - 00;08;44;19
Unknown
And I feel like that's kind of where we're actually trying to get at. So in my own development, I know that you work with lucid dreams, and I know a whole framework of people work with lucid dreams. But for my own journey, I sort of began in the liminal dream space. For some reason, I honed in on that space and it was very important to me.

00;08;44;22 - 00;09;21;26
Unknown
And there's a lady, I believe her name is, Jennifer Dubay, that wrote a book, and I can't think of the name of the book right now, but she also has, liminal dreaming, I think it's called. Yes. And she's on YouTube and in social media, but she kind of was an inspiration in that space. And I worked and played a lot in the liminal dream space and I feel like it's indicated in lucid dreaming also, that that liminal dream space can be a springboard into lucid dreaming.

00;09;21;29 - 00;09;59;16
Unknown
I can spontaneously lucid dream, but I'm not like a master lucid dreamer where I can just make myself become lucid and have mastery or control. But I sort of honed in on that liminal dream space as a springboard to problem solve and to dream seed. And so then here we spin off because in my native background, you know, I work with a specific tribe, but for some reason, I was really drawn to the Toltec tradition when it came to dreaming.

00;09;59;19 - 00;10;25;23
Unknown
And that began with the book The Four Agreements and the very beginning of that book. It talks about the smoky mirror and the dream of the world. And for some reason, that terminology really clicked something in my brain. And so in this day and time, people are referring to things as a hologram or a simulation or, the matrix, things like this.

00;10;25;25 - 00;10;55;04
Unknown
And in my mind, the dream of the world just like really clicked in, in. So I like to reference this reality that we're speaking in right now as the dream of the world. And I began to speak about the Dream Realms, where we sort of travel to as the dreaming. Then I found out later that the dreaming is actually a terminology that was used by the Aboriginals in Australia.

00;10;55;07 - 00;11;27;13
Unknown
And so I can't claim that things that are coming to me or anything new because they're not there. The wisdom is out there, it's been out there. It's just I've sort of, I guess, open myself up through this journey to, receive things in and then sort of almost get that external validation afterwards, which we shouldn't need. But it's always nice and that aspect of it began to blow my mind.

00;11;27;15 - 00;11;40;13
Unknown
That aspect of it sort of went into a philosophical nature where I began to realize that, you know, we're dreaming this reality.

00;11;40;15 - 00;12;07;18
Unknown
People tend to think of dreams only when we fall asleep and we're unconscious. And then, you know, our minds go into a dream state. But I began to really realize that our minds are always in a dream state. And this thing that we call creator or God or goddess or, you know, source universe, you know, universal energy. I was running one day and running can very much be a moving meditation.

00;12;07;25 - 00;12;29;19
Unknown
You know, the first couple of minutes I joke around, you're running and you're like, why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? And then boom, you're in the zone. You're in this meditative state. And I was running one day and all of a sudden this sun image came to me about how there was just this vast nothingness.

00;12;29;21 - 00;12;58;23
Unknown
And then after millennia of vast nothingness, all of a sudden there was a being that just became conscious of itself. And I could connect to that, because in that liminal dream space, in the hypno space, I have managed to wake up so slowly. Before that I was just outside of the dream state and just inside of the waking state where I was just aware of myself.

00;12;58;26 - 00;13;22;24
Unknown
I didn't have a name. I didn't have a physical body. There was, you know, no work in vacuuming the floor and all the things, but I was just soft enough to realize that I existed. And that was the connection that I felt like was being made. It was just like some sort of being that just was aware of its own existence.

00;13;22;26 - 00;13;55;14
Unknown
And then as its awareness grew and its curiosity group was like, well, who am I? I can't see myself. What do I look like? Or what would I be like in from that space? It became creator that began to dream everything into being, and then again mirrored back to ourselves as the dreamers and how we create from that dream space everything into our lives, into being.

00;13;55;16 - 00;14;43;00
Unknown
And that we have that conscious ness about us, that we think we're more conscious than we actually are, and that subconsciousness that sort of always records. It's always recording everything that we see and we hear, and it's taking these experiences in it, setting it into a pattern by which we live our lives, whether we are consciously aware of that pattern or not, and how when we go back and then work with our nighttime dreams and we tap into the dreaming, then we can go into the space of where, just like how potent that space is to really discover ourselves in that subconscious pattern.

00;14;43;00 - 00;15;13;21
Unknown
And the things that we don't actually remember on a conscious level. But it's recorded everything. And then, you know, you get into this really philosophical, mind space. You know, I'm the dream being expressed as the dreamer having a dream. And that just really blew my mind when I began to see the interweaving, of the dream with the world.

00;15;13;21 - 00;15;48;07
Unknown
The dream that we express here on this plane of existence in the playground. That the dreaming is without its limitations of gravity. And, you know, being able to fly and leap a tall building and see a single bound that we perceive that we can't do here. And then what if we could do it here? We just think that we can't because we haven't observed it outside of ourselves, and therefore we believe we can't do it.

00;15;48;07 - 00;16;13;21
Unknown
And it just forms that core belief that it doesn't exist, that it's not possible. What if it is possible? Yeah. Well, I really love that. I took some notes and there's so much to think about. But first of all, thank you so much for, like, just taking me through your journey. I really love how, you know, you kind of found a niche in liminal dreaming, and that's kind of something that really stood out to you.

00;16;13;27 - 00;16;32;06
Unknown
There's so many different niches in dream work. I always say this, and, you know, lucid dreaming is like my thing, but there's like all these other, you know, things you can use dreaming for. And working with that liminal space is a really good way to start for a lot of people. And it does connect, you know, to all the different types of dreams.

00;16;32;13 - 00;16;52;19
Unknown
I also really enjoyed that book, the Jennifer Dumper book, so I'll link that below for listeners. But, that's that's wonderful. Do you have any I know you said you're not so much of a lucid dreamer. But I love to ask people anyway, since that's not your favorite topic, do you have any cool lucid dreams that you, can share or any?

00;16;52;19 - 00;17;16;14
Unknown
It doesn't have to be a lucid dream, really. Maybe like a dream that really stood out to you along the journey? I did have a lucid experience when I was in college, and it was a really trippy experience, and since it was so trippy, it may have maybe, caused a little bit of the block from being able to do it more.

00;17;16;16 - 00;17;37;00
Unknown
That I remember. I was in my college dorm and I was sleeping, and I woke up and I went to the bathroom and I was looking in the mirror. And then I started to melt into the floor. And at the point I'm melting into the floor, I'm like, hey, I'm not really awake. And so that part of the dream goes on.

00;17;37;08 - 00;18;00;05
Unknown
And then I woke up in my bed and I went to go do something else, and something else happened. And that's when I realized, oh, wait, I'm still not awake. And then it startled me to the point where I fell out of my bed and then I remember the carpet started moving and I'm like, I'm still not awake.

00;18;00;05 - 00;18;20;26
Unknown
And at that point it's almost like, the movie inception, where there's just like all those different layers of dreams that you're in and you keep thinking you're waking up and you're just in a different level of the dream. And when I finally woke up, it was like one of those experiences where I'm questioning reality. I don't know if I'm awake or if I'm asleep.

00;18;20;26 - 00;18;54;20
Unknown
And so then that caused a little discord within me, because just the way that dream played out, I was just waking up multiple times in this happened spontaneously. I was not on any substances or any any mind altering anything that just happened to occur spontaneously. And it's never happened to that degree since then. But like I said, I think I freaked out just a little bit in may have put a little bit of a blockage on myself, being able to, to work that way.

00;18;54;22 - 00;19;19;04
Unknown
But that was yeah, that was the most trippy experience I've had with lucid dreaming. There's other dreams that I'll have where I become a little bit lucid within the dream, and I'll be aware that it's a dream, but not enough to where I feel like I have control over anything. Like I could alter the dream or go anywhere I wanted, or that sort of thing.

00;19;19;07 - 00;19;48;01
Unknown
Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, yeah, lucidity is such a broad spectrum that it looks so many different ways. And I've kind of experienced something similar to it's kind of, called a false awakening or a nested false awakening. You know, when you keep, like, waking up and a lot of times that can be lucid, you know, and that can be so frustrating and confusing for people, you know, where they're not sure it creates this like just this realm of like, you know, dreamy reality mix.

00;19;48;01 - 00;20;08;10
Unknown
It's like this weird in-between. So that fits right into, you know, the liminal phase, category of like being awake but also being asleep. And it's just really confusing. I used to have these where I would wake up, still in the dream, though, I thought I was awake and I wasn't lucid. I thought that I just woke up and I would, like, get ready for school and then go to school and be on the bus.

00;20;08;10 - 00;20;32;27
Unknown
And then I'd wake back up again in my bed, and then I would do it like three times, like get ready for school. And then I'm still in my bed. And it was so frustrating because by the time I actually woke up, I felt like I already was like, should have been at school by now. That's interesting that you mentioned that it was on a loop like that because there's that's that's coming to me lately and, you know, the movie Groundhog Day.

00;20;32;27 - 00;20;50;15
Unknown
And it's like at first he doesn't realize he's in that loop. And then he realized that he's reliving the day. And so he's just having fun with these playing, you know, different things all this day. I can be super sweet. In this day. I can be kind of a jerk or whatever, you know what I mean? Because it doesn't matter.

00;20;50;15 - 00;21;09;16
Unknown
Because I'm just going to wake up. Nobody's going to remember anything. I'm going to do it all over again. But at the end, of course, he learns the lesson that he's supposed to learn, and he exits the loop. And that that loop is coming to me a lot lately. With our own patterning within the dream of the world.

00;21;09;16 - 00;21;31;18
Unknown
Like how we're creating that loop to pattern where we think we're doing something and then we find ourselves right back at the beginning to play it out again until we do figure out what we're supposed to figure out, to be able to exit that loop. So that's interesting that you use that as an example. Yeah. That's so cool.

00;21;31;18 - 00;21;49;14
Unknown
Yeah, that's a good movie example. I definitely think that dreams kind of resemble that, you know, especially with recurring dreams and nightmares. A lot of times there will be a lesson there or like something we need to unlock to kind of, you know, move past it or heal from it or come at least to some terms with it.

00;21;49;16 - 00;22;10;16
Unknown
Even though, you know, dreams have lifelong journeys that sometimes don't resolve themselves in one dream, I think that's like part of the lesson, which I find very cool. So when you help people interpret dreams, I love how you talked about, you know, how you found an approach that's not too direct and, you know, finding the right wording.

00;22;10;16 - 00;22;30;25
Unknown
I think that's really important. So I love that you kind of took some time to, you know, just find the right way to help people with that. So do you do, like, dream interpretation as, like, a service or dream coaching or do you just kind of, you know, help people out? For fun? I do both.

00;22;30;25 - 00;22;54;10
Unknown
So I want it to be a business. However, I'm not going to not help someone. So it sort of ends up being what it is. And one of the first things that did come to me were nightmares. So people don't tend to seek someone out if they are having, you know, really fun, fluffy dreams or if they don't remember their dreams.

00;22;54;13 - 00;23;35;15
Unknown
And it's when they kind of have an unsettling, creepy, nightmarish type of dream where they're like, whoa, I need to know what that means. And almost inevitably, as we work through those dreams and they see things from a more symbolic level, then it sort of makes more sense. The fear begins to dissipate. And they sort of know at that point if it's something connected to the within themselves or connected with their relationships or kind of interrelated, there are something I can say and I can't remember.

00;23;35;17 - 00;23;51;29
Unknown
No, it's all good. It'll come back. It always does. But yeah, I totally relate to you on that. Like, I think everybody should be lucid dreaming and learn for free. And, you know, I wish I could just do everything for free, which, you know, to an extent I can like I am in the community teaching people, talking to people about it.

00;23;51;29 - 00;24;07;24
Unknown
Like, you know, I just do it because I love doing it. But, you know, finding that balance with business is hard because you want to, you know, you want to make it a career. You want to make it something sustainable so you can continue doing it. It's such a weird balance. You know, I get it. It is.

00;24;07;24 - 00;24;34;20
Unknown
And I am a teacher by nature. I love to break things down and make it make sense. So I do teach classes. I teach classes in Roswell and Canton and sometimes some Woodstock. Just those are more educational type things. It's your run of the mill. Like you're brand new. How how do we start working with this?

00;24;34;22 - 00;25;06;08
Unknown
And how do we start remembering our dreams? I'll go through, you know, things that can prevent us from remembering dreams, making that connection. I'm showing. The dreams are important by writing them down. And then even then. That's very specific. I love how my chief, puts it. She said, if you try to interpret the dream as you write it down, then you'll inevitably take something out or put something in.

00;25;06;08 - 00;25;32;10
Unknown
And what he was talking about was that interjection of the personality of self or the interjection of ego. So I try to teach, you know, recording the dream exactly as it is. And I, I kind of took some hints from Jeremy Taylor using kind of his strategies as a springboard, by giving it a dream title and then.

00;25;32;12 - 00;26;01;03
Unknown
Looking at what jumps out at you the most, like what symbol jumps out at you the most in doing these little tricks first, and then begin to write the dream down. But trying to remember emotions, colors, things like this. But but as if you're a reporter, like recording your dream, not, trying to interpret it, and then to go back to it with fresh eyes in order to interpret the meanings.

00;26;01;05 - 00;26;46;18
Unknown
So that way you're not twisting something to complete a narrative that's already in your head. So I'll tell you, one of my biggest learning points was a first. It was supposed to be paid. Dream interpretation and I didn't end up getting paid for it. And basically the lady didn't just tell me the dream, but she told me all this background information and essentially what she wanted me to do was agree with the version of the interpretation she'd already come up with to justify some bad decisions that she wanted to make in her life.

00;26;46;21 - 00;27;17;03
Unknown
And so that was a huge learning curve for me, because it taught me to do some educational pieces first. It also taught me, that along with one of my own experiences, taught me what I call the magnetics of, of dream interpretation. So I was in a dream shear circle. And, you know, they teach us to say, if it were my dream, this is how I would look at it.

00;27;17;05 - 00;27;43;23
Unknown
And this guy was brand new, so he forgot that part, but he also was just like, this needs this. And I was taken aback. And immediate was like, this guy doesn't know me. And he does not know what he's talking about. Had an attitude. And then I got home. And at first, you know, you get kind of defensive, like the shoulders go up and you're just like, I can't believe he said that.

00;27;43;23 - 00;28;04;23
Unknown
And that's just so not true. And then I would be in any kind of moving meditation, like vacuuming the floor or doing the dishes in my mind would kind of click into it and I would still be in the space of, nope, that's not true. And then, you know, a week or two later, we come back in. No, that's not true.

00;28;04;25 - 00;28;28;23
Unknown
And then a couple of weeks later, well, maybe it's true. And then a couple of weeks later, it's like, okay, he was probably right. It was like this, this huge push back. So when you look at magnets, you know, they try to put them a certain way. They repel. And then other times, you know, they attract, you hear a dream interpretation, and you have what Jeremy calls that moment and you're like, yes, that's it.

00;28;28;25 - 00;28;56;18
Unknown
And so I like to say that the attraction, that immediate moment, you know, you just know what that meaning is and you know how it fits in and what you need to do to work with it. But that repulsion, because I experienced it on that deep of a level, I can also teach that it's true somewhere in your life, but you're not ready to accept that as truth yet.

00;28;56;20 - 00;29;21;18
Unknown
And over time, maybe that, resistance kind of dissipates until you're ready to work with it. Every dreamer really has their own journey with it. And that's why the wording is so important, you know, because even if the interpretation is correct or, you know, correct is relative, but even if it's something that you know, it's worth considering, the dreamer may not be ready or receptive to it.

00;29;21;18 - 00;29;43;12
Unknown
You know, if, if the interpret it comes off too arrogant or too direct. Because, you know, we have egos and, sometimes we don't like to hear other perspectives. But when, when the interpreter helps the dreamer come to that conclusion on their own just by offering questions or clarifying things and talking to the dreamer about the dream.

00;29;43;14 - 00;30;11;03
Unknown
It's way more powerful. A lot of times when they come to the conclusion, and sometimes it can happen way later, you know, like I usually can't interpret my dreams in the moment that they happen either. So that makes total sense. And I was wondering if you could give like a little summary on Jeremy Taylor for those that maybe don't know him or don't know really what he did, could you kind of give us a little, just a little synopsis about what he did and why was he so important in the field?

00;30;11;05 - 00;30;52;08
Unknown
Sure. So from my understanding, Jeremy Taylor was a Unitarian Universalist minister. Dream work was his life's work. He came up with a foundation for dream share groups, and he did groups from prisons to churches to he taught in seminary schools. Just out in the community, and in these dream share groups, everyone could offer a perspective, but he really wanted it formatted a certain way so that it did not come across like somebody telling you who you are to you and what your dream is to you.

00;30;52;10 - 00;31;33;19
Unknown
So he would ask that if you're offering an interpretation of someone else's dream or, you know, just a deciphering of the symbol, you would say if it's if it were my dream, this is how I would look at it. And that allows for different perspectives. Which is really neat. It's just like if you had a book club and you all read the same chapter, but you get together to discuss it, and when you get together with others to discuss it, you allow for different perspectives that you would have never thought of because you look at the world through your unique lens, through the experiences that you accumulated in your own life.

00;31;33;21 - 00;31;59;28
Unknown
Then you allow for a perspective. If somebody else has completely different experiences, can different completely different emotionality and mindset to offer, and it builds on to something greater. So the dreams were the same way you would allow for those different perspectives to come in, and it would allow for something bigger, more complete pieces coming together for a more complete puzzle, so to speak.

00;32;00;03 - 00;32;21;03
Unknown
I love that, yeah, he definitely was an awesome, you know, guide in the space and set a lot of kind of the tone for the work we do now. So I think that's great. And from my understanding, he was also one of the original Iasb founders. So that's that's wonderful, I love that. So one more question.

00;32;21;03 - 00;32;38;22
Unknown
I wanted to ask you, which we kind of touched on a little bit, is what are some ways that people can learn to interpret their own dreams, like if they don't, have like a dream guide or an expert and they're kind of totally new to this and have no idea how to start. You know, I always tell people like, you have the answers to what your dream means.

00;32;38;22 - 00;33;05;20
Unknown
So what are some tips for like how to look into your own dreams? Well, I'm going to go way back up the track. I like to start, at night in. There's a line of thinking among Tibetan Buddhist. There's a book called The Yoga of Dreams, and it talks about your nighttime practices. So thinking about the nighttime as the beginning of the next day, I have a dream alter.

00;33;05;23 - 00;33;49;25
Unknown
You know, lots of people have spaces where they have, like, maybe a little meditation nook or a dream alter or some kind of practices where they'll do a Yoga Nidra Inc. Jennifer talks about that in her book, too. Something to set the space. Sometimes people journal so that they can get kind of any disruptive things that have been in their lives up until this point, kind of get it out of themselves and put kind of tucked away or put away, or some people will use that as a launching pad to use hold on to in that liminal space as they cross into a dream so that they can ask the questions of like, how

00;33;49;25 - 00;34;20;24
Unknown
does this get resolved? And then you can go on Google and literally Google hundreds of people that have had inspiration to problems or, something that they're trying to invent or, you know, your periodic table, like, how's my favorite? He was trying to perfect the sewing machine, and he had a dream that he was taken hostage by, you know, cannibals.

00;34;20;24 - 00;34;42;21
Unknown
And he was placed in the pot, and they were stabbing at him with these, stabs. And at the top there was a hole, and he woke up and realized to put the eye in the needle of the sewing machine where you could thread the needle, all these different things like that, so you can utilize that space that way to really set the space.

00;34;42;21 - 00;35;16;21
Unknown
And as part of that space, you want to hold the intention of dream recall. And even in that there's certain things that we know inhibit being able to dream and to, recall dreams. So you want to abstain from those things if you want good dream, recall also the way that you wake up is important. If we are sort of waking up by a loud, obnoxious alarm and hit the ground running, then you're less likely to remember a dream because we haven't allowed for that space.

00;35;16;23 - 00;35;37;24
Unknown
So some people, if they have jobs where they need to wake up at a certain time and really start getting up and get going, they'll back their alarm up and they'll set an alarm for maybe 4:00 in the morning to allow themselves to wake up and then fall back asleep, and then they may set their alarm for like six if they need to get up at seven, maybe.

00;35;37;26 - 00;36;11;07
Unknown
And that allows and space to dream and then re wake up and be able to journal and work with the dreams. I like to encourage things on the bedside table. So one thing that Jerry talked about was he and his wife had, the voice recorders, so they didn't have to even touch anything. They could just immediately didn't have to turn the light on anything, just immediately start speaking their dream.

00;36;11;10 - 00;36;53;00
Unknown
That was helpful to them. And I know that we have, you know, voice recordings on our, cell phone devices these days. You could also even do talk to text on something like, Google Docs or Word. You can have pen and journal, and I like to encourage my artists to have sketch pads and things next to them, because sometimes waking up for your, your artist, and being able to sketch out a prominent dream character keeps their focus on that dream.

00;36;53;02 - 00;37;34;23
Unknown
And oftentimes that focus in movement, will actually just spark an unwinding right there, being able to even work with something like sculpture. So there's a lot of creative ways. And even with dream journaling, you can get extremely creative with gluing and making it scrapbook. Different pictures and various shapes and all that sort of thing. You can track moon phases in Schumann residence and you know, star alignments, or you can just have a simple book that you just jot the drawing down.

00;37;34;26 - 00;38;02;24
Unknown
It's really up to the dreamer how creative they want to get with it. I do as I mentioned, encourage recording the dream exactly as the dream happened and going back after that to begin to unwind and decipher meaning. So those are the basic tips that I usually have. And then we can also look at things, from different perspectives as well.

00;38;02;27 - 00;38;37;19
Unknown
So you can look at an initial, interpretation of the dream. And then you can begin to look at it from almost like a shadow work or ancestral healing point of view. Okay. If I have that mindset and look at these symbols, does anything shift or change? If I look at it from, interrelatedness. Like almost a mirroring effect, can I see this outside of myself in my friend group or my, you know, among my coworkers at work?

00;38;37;21 - 00;39;02;14
Unknown
Does that shift anything? So just kind of slowly beginning to broaden out the way that you think about dreams, almost like you're in that dream share circle where you're getting different perspectives, but you're allowing the space to shift your own thinking? I had a dream I was going to do, a dream session with someone, and I had a very interesting dream.

00;39;02;16 - 00;39;28;26
Unknown
And I remember sharing that dream with my mentor right before I went into the dream session. And then when I went into the dream session, it happened right before my eyes. And what that dream told me was that it wasn't my job to interpret. And, you know, I sort of knew this all together, which is why my focus really became like, how can I help people without calling it interpretation and trying to do the style interpretation?

00;39;28;28 - 00;39;56;11
Unknown
But that what my job was was asking certain questions or saying certain things. Made the dreamer make connections for themselves. So I think originally in my mind that I was doing the interpreting, and then I was going to do an integrative counseling with them after to show them how to integrate. And then, this into their own lives.

00;39;56;11 - 00;40;28;26
Unknown
Like, what do they need to do within themselves or within their, work environment or their friend group or their relationships to kind of get the lesson and put action into place to resolve whatever needed to be resolved. And at that point, when I had this dream in that session, it really sunk in my mind that the counseling part didn't matter, because once I gave the symbology, inevitably I'm watching light bulbs go off and I don't even have to say anything after that.

00;40;28;26 - 00;40;58;22
Unknown
Like they know inherently what's happening inside their own lives, inside their own beings. And then once I help it make sense, then they know what to do from there. And that's when I shifted to beginning to work on the front end more collectively. So that the dreamers own interpretation, can be voiced and then I can guide things in.

00;40;58;22 - 00;41;20;10
Unknown
And that's why I like to speak about myself as a dream guide, as I'm just looking at symbology from that very neutral place because I'm not in your life, so I don't have any emotional ties or you know, from that very neutral place, being able to take this information and then guide it into your awareness. And then the dreamer inevitably kind of knows where everything goes after that.

00;41;20;10 - 00;41;43;25
Unknown
They sort of able to travel all of this information and then put it into the slots, plug it in, and was like plugging in an outlet, to make the circuit board more complete, if you will. So I love that, I love that that's a really great analogy. I really appreciate that. And those are some great, great tips for, for dream interpreting and how to, write your own dreams down.

00;41;43;25 - 00;42;05;06
Unknown
There's so many different ways to record dreams. There's really no right or wrong way. It's really a kind of find what works for you kind of thing. So I love that. And where can people find you, like, if they want to connect with you? I know you're online and all the platforms. Yes. Sacred dreams on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.

00;42;05;08 - 00;42;34;01
Unknown
I'm located in canton, Holly Springs area. I do teach classes and do sessions through eclipse over Laswell and Russell and Holistic Lifestyle Center. Make sure to and I'm able to do phone or zoom sessions. So when you find me sleep, my cell phone number will be on the air, so I can just be contacting that wing to set up private sessions.

00;42;34;03 - 00;43;09;14
Unknown
Wonderful. I people really kind of waking up to concepts of consciousness now. And I really loved how Jeremy Taylor talked about the collective unconscious, because I feel like that's not talked about yet. It's there. That's what we're all coming from. We're trying to move from the collective unconscious to the collective conscious. And I love how he talks about, you know, myths and legends and things like this, because you can start to see the collective in those stories.

00;43;09;14 - 00;43;37;06
Unknown
And then from that also see it in our own dreams. And so having a background in both yoga, qigong and kind of meditation, I also try to work with sacred dream consciousness and so some people just find me because they have maybe a creepy dream and they kind of want to know what it's like, or they're having this recurring dream and they can't figure out what's the meaning.

00;43;37;06 - 00;44;05;15
Unknown
So that recurring dream kind of talks about that Groundhog Day loop we were talking about earlier. But also we're getting into, people with very sensitive issues. So they're having nightmares because they had trauma. So I'm moving into beginning to work with those sorts of people. I am, adjusting my own education level to be able to work in those areas.

00;44;05;18 - 00;44;27;29
Unknown
So I'm brand new with that. I'll put full disclaimer there. But I am moving into that direction, but also just just working with this sacred dream consciousness where we begin to realize that this reality is the dream of the world. And like we're the dreamer, were dreaming into being this reality, both collective unconscious level and collective conscious level.

00;44;28;01 - 00;44;54;25
Unknown
And so the last few days, I'm sure that you've seen things. I mean, the world's been hard, and I think we're seeing that in real time. We're seeing, you know, a lot of unconscious wounds that have not been healed. And we're seeing the collective conscious, attempting to shift that. And so we have this dance between kind of this light and dark, this yin and yang, happening.

00;44;54;28 - 00;45;30;12
Unknown
And so those are the types of more philosophical and, powerful things that I also like to try to work with. And some people really like it, and some people are just not here for it yet. So, but that's something I also would like to do more of and teach more of being able to use your dreams for inner transformation, being able to see these reality shifts in that we can sort of ride along the shifts or we can become a master of the shift.

00;45;30;14 - 00;46;04;11
Unknown
And it's very difficult. I can't say I'm a master at all. However, I do well sometimes and I don't do well and sometimes, but being able just to see it from that dreaming point of view, that kind of allows a space. Okay, I'll put it this way. When we have a dream, that's a nighttime dream, and we wake up, we are more willing to look at all of the different pathways of exploration because we're detached from it, meaning it's not real.

00;46;04;11 - 00;46;30;05
Unknown
Reality is our mindset towards that. But when we're in this reality, we are emotionally attached to it and mentally attached to it. The outcomes of certain things. Because we believe that this is the real reality, when if we can look at it all as a dream, we don't shift the way that we experience beings or human beings. So we're going to have our thoughts and feelings about it.

00;46;30;05 - 00;46;56;21
Unknown
And we don't want to become so detached that we're unfeeling and and unsympathetic, but we want to be able to see it as a dream enough to not be sucked in by it so totally that we're really in that wounded hurt spot. Does that make sense? Yeah. Most definitely. I mean, dreams really can provide healing when approached, like, you know, with intention and with patients.

00;46;56;21 - 00;47;15;28
Unknown
So it's very well said and I appreciate the perspective. It's been such a good like episode today. Really a lot to think about. And I really appreciate just all of your love and your wisdom and all the amazing tips you've brought onto the show today. So thank you. Thank you. And I wanted to say something really quickly.

00;47;16;00 - 00;47;32;15
Unknown
I believe it was on Facebook, but it could have been on a different tour. I was just having one of those days because we're human beings and we have long days. And I ran across a video of you. I think that's how I even found you. And you're like, hey, you're a dreamer and you're out there doing dream work.

00;47;32;15 - 00;47;55;03
Unknown
I just want to give you kudos. I can't remember exactly what you said, that you were pumped up and really, you know, giving it out there. And I felt it with every fiber of my being. And I was like, oh, yeah, I love that. I needed that today. And so I just wanted to say, I appreciate you for any type of videos that you make like that, because you never know who you're going to reach in that day.

00;47;55;03 - 00;48;12;26
Unknown
You happen to reach me. So I appreciate you. I mean, oh thank you. That means so much. I actually know exactly which video you're talking about. And if you would of my dream worker friends said the same thing. Like, I really needed that and I needed it too. That's why I made the video. So I'm really glad that you connected with it, because yeah, we need to keep doing what we're doing.

00;48;12;26 - 00;48;28;12
Unknown
It's important work and it's sometimes hard, you know, to find that balance between dream and life and, you know, survival. But yeah, keep doing what you're doing because it really is amazing in all dimensions. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for.