Real Beauty with FD

Real Beauty Featuring Kirsten from Ectopic Pregnancy Support

• francene davidson • Season 7 • Episode 3

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In this deeply personal epsiode, we're joined by Kirsten from Ectopic Pregnancy Support, who shares her journey through loss, resilience and hope. From experiencing an ectopic pregnancy to navigating miscarriage and welcoming a rainbow baby, Kirsten opens up about the realities so many women face, but few talk about. 

Together, we explore grief, healing, and the importance of community when walking the fertility path. This conversation is a reminder that you are not aline - and that even in the hardest moments, there is space for support, understanding and hope. 

Contact me @francenejdavidson

Welcome to Real Beauty with fd a space where beauty goes beyond the surface. Here we explore what beauty really means from the products we can't live without. To the stories that shape who we are From cult favorite skincare to confidence from glowing on the outside, to navigating life on the inside. But this isn't just about makeup bags and routines. We're diving into conversations that don't always get said out loud. Fertility journeys, evolving, friendships, motherhood, identity, and everything in between. Because real beauty is found in resilience, in vulnerability, and in the moments that change us. Think of this as your place to discover. Your little black dress and beauty, and those go-to products, rituals, and mindsets that make you feel like you, while also learning how to truly feel at home in your skin. Each episode I'm sitting down with inspiring people to talk about beauty life and the stories that define them. This is real beauty, unfiltered, honest, and yours. I'm fd and I'm so glad you were here. But before we get into today's episode, I want to start with a weekly reset. Just a few moments from the past week, so something that filled me up. I have been thinking daily about how fortunate I am with the time off I have with my baby. So we are coming up to three and a half months, which is crazy. I feel like I'm in denial about. The time and how quickly it's gone. And also I am already like mourning the fact that I have to go back to work and I'm gonna be away from the baby. So I'm definitely trying to kind. I weigh both of those up, but the fact that I've been able to walk daily with Luna to and from school as well as our beautiful dog, Mia, Jessica, who in the mornings I just must look like a chaotic lady with one arm pulled one way as Mia is trying to chase a squirrel and the other arm trying to kinda hold up the stroller and ensure that I don't fall over with. The baby. So the mornings and after school, to be honest, is a little bit chaotic. Um, but I wouldn't change it for the world. That was one of the things that I set my, kind of, one of the goals for maternity leave was we are gonna have this routine of walking to and from school. And I know I continue to kind of talk about this with my friends and I'm sure, I have no doubt I will mention or not mention it on the pod again. But just having that routine and I guess sense of purpose during the last couple of months has just been so helpful. Um, and I think has continued to. Make me get up in the morning, um, get into a routine extremely quickly because you have no other choice. But also, I just feel so grateful to be able to have those additional conversations with Luna. Um, you know, in the morning I get to hear all of her thoughts on what she's thinking about for the incoming weekend, for the day, things that she's feeling, anxious about, nervous, excited. I feel like I get all the emotions from her. And then after school, because we walk immediately, she hasn't had time to kinda, I guess, take everything in when she's on the bus or. You know, uh, by the time I saw her before, she just opens up so much. Um, to the extent that I'm like, geez, there's so much information for like one day. I'm like, did all of this happen today? Um, but I just, I really appreciate it and I'm so thankful for this time that I know with our schedules, I will never get this consistency again. And I feel for Bri knowing that. I don't think I will be ever in the position with a work schedule to be able to walk her to and from school, but I have just, I. Loved it. It is truly being a highlight for my maternity leave so far. Um, something I'm carrying forward yesterday, um, because I'm obviously crazy and have ridiculous OCD and honestly today I'm looking around the house and I'm like, I have nothing to do in the house. Because yesterday I did everything. I pulled everything out, our cupboards reorganized. Um. You know, kind of went through it throughout anything that was old, damaged, like it's ridiculous over here, but my god, I feel amazing today. Um, so I will be continuing to carry forward, keeping the cupboards organized so they don't get into a crazy state. Um, something that felt a little heavy. So I mentioned about walking to school with Luna and just getting all of her kind of rundown on school, friends, the emotions, activities, like everything. And one of the things that I continue to think about, because clearly I have too much time, so that's one of the things I'm looking forward to going back to work, is I'm not gonna be sitting pondering about, you know, the smallest details, but. Luna co talks constantly about friendships and it's. An area that I will be talking about in the pod from like an adult perspective, but I'm constantly trying to position her to be more equipped than I certainly was at that age, and understand this is a good friend. This is a good way to treat people. This is not a good friend. This is not how we treat people. And instead of. Dwelling in the, okay, this happened, that sucks. Let's continue to talk about it and talk about the same people. It's okay, you recognize that that is not the best behavior when it comes to what you expect from a friend. So I try and turn it around and we try and have more discussions around, okay, what would you do differently and how are you gonna react to this? And. Is there other ways you could have navigated this and you know, would you ever act in this manner to someone else? So I feel like this is a big topic. But one of the things that I do appreciate about Luna compared to myself even now, to be honest, is the way she brushes things off and her logic of, well, that's not being a good friend. That's unacceptable. I'm not gonna accept it. I'm like, girl. I can't even do that, and I'm 37. I still struggle and I still struggle to speak up when, you know, when I personally don't think someone has acted in the behavior I would expect I will just. Deal with it internally and then let it go. But one of the things I appreciate, she said yesterday, so they do this thing at school where if you get certain amount of points, um, you get to pick different prizes or experiences, and one of them is you can take your friend up to. I guess like on the stage during lunch, and you can sit at a private table with them and you're kind of on the stage and it's super cool. So anyway, one of her friends was like, I pick you. Well, it turns out her friend did not pick her. She said that, um, but she actually went with someone else. And, um, Luna naturally was really upset because she was really looking forward to it and. You know, again, a learning is, hey, when you make a commitment to a friend, you follow through on that commitment, and you certainly do not. Cancel to pick someone else that is a no-no. Um, but anyway, so when we were talking through this, she was like, oh mama, don't worry. That same friend came to me and said, you know, the girl she had picked ignored her during lunch. So it made her sad. And I was like, gosh, that sucks. You know? Um, we never want to wish, you know that for someone else. We always wanna wish, you know, Goodwill. But she was like, well, you know what? I said Mama. And I was like, tell me. She said, well. I was like, well then you should have made, you should have committed to the choice that you made and picked me.'cause I would've spoken to you. And I was like, girl, I freaking love that response. Like, go you so. I love that. That was a kinda heavy from some of the conversations we've had, and to me that switched to a positive just on how she acts. So if anything, I should be going to her, um, with advice in the future. Okay, I have for the weekly edit, I have a couple of recommendations. So one is affirming and lifting moisturizer. It is by the beauty brand called In Beauty Project, and I have been using the Extreme Cream. It costs, I think it's less than$50. So in comparison to other. You know, skincare brands in the marketplace. It, I would say it was pretty reasonable. It is amazing. I have been using it for a little over a month now. I was looking for a new skin moisturizer and one that I could use in the morning and in the evening. So I highly recommend it. Um, you can buy it from, I mean, Sephora Ultra, um, all the places. So anyway, that is one of my recommendations. The. Other piece, it wouldn't be me without not recommending a movie. So I watch Nuremberg, and it's on Netflix. It's with Russell Crowe. It's got a great cast. There's way more people, but it is such a incredibly intense. Amazing movie, like you gotta see it. I typically am not drawn to movies about war or to be honest history. So I'm shocked at myself that I watched it, I had, um, a three hour plane journey and it was two and a half hours. And I was like, you know what? Let me just turn this on and we will see how it goes. And I really like Brussel Crow as an actor. It was so good. So add it to your list. Let me know what you think. I am surprised it wasn't up for any awards, to be honest. Like the acting just in itself, like Russell Crowe for sure deserved an Oscar. Enjoy.

kristen

Hello.

francene

It is so good to see you.

kristen

Oh my gosh, it's so good to see you too. I cannot believe you had your baby

francene

know.

kristen

So time

francene

has flown.

kristen

Yes. I was looking back in our messages and then I went and looked on your Instagram and I'm like she never announced that she had her baby.

francene

I know I a hundred percent flew under the radar with this pregnancy. Like I feel like if you looked even at all my pictures on Instagram, I don't think you could tell I was pregnant either.

kristen

No.

francene

And I feel like weirdly, I like, I don't think it was an intent, intentional at the time, but I think subconsciously it, I don't know. I just don't think I was ready to be out because even I was even the same at work, to be honest. Really. Even at six months, like no, I hadn't told people. So then when the bump was out, I felt bad with some of the people who I worked closely with that I was like, I didn't even say anything.

kristen

Aw, I will say it. It's such a strange. Thing to share. Like I just never, when I was pregnant and I was around the time of when I wanted to announce

francene

Yeah.

kristen

Dated it a little while too.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

It's like such a weird thing to bring up because like, how do you just nonchalantly say, oh yeah I'm pregnant and I'm due in a couple months.

francene

I know. No, I know. I hear you. And I like, again, honestly, like my husband was like, you're getting to the point where you're making it awkward for people. But I was like to, to your like, especially like at work, unless it was like a close friend, I'm like, why would I just randomly bring up, Hey, by the way, I'm pregnant. And what's weird is if you had. Looked back at like how I was with like Luna, completely opposite, oh my God. Completely opposite bump pictures everywhere. Constantly holding the bump posting about it. This was just so different. Yeah. Like it's very odd.

kristen

Do you think it had anything to do with how it took you a while?

francene

Yes. A hundred percent. Yeah. And I think the process too, like honestly, I think all of it, which is, it's so sad and I know we'll touch on this more, but it's so sad how like inexperienced, like that kind of robs you of I guess a normal. Way of feeling during pregnancy. And I think I was so scared that if I announced it, something would happen. So I was like, let me just I was like, let me wait until 12 weeks. And then I was like, wow, let me just wait until five months. And then I was like, let me just wait until I don't know the very end. You constantly go with these like milestones. And then I was like let me wait until she's here. And then I was like, I still feel it still feels weird. Doing it.

kristen

Yeah.

francene

I don't really know why. Yeah. And I've had a number of people who like I mainly connected through on like Instagram and they've messaged me being like, Hey, is everything okay? Did you have, when are you due? Did you have the baby? Yeah. And I'm like, oh yeah, shoot, I forgot I did

kristen

well. That was me.

francene

I'm like, oh yeah, it has been, yeah, I did have her.

kristen

I know you posted your family pictures. When you were really pregnant and then I started looking back

francene

Yes.

kristen

At some of your more recent posts. I'm like, there's definitely not a bump there.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

I know what happened.

francene

No, I know. And then even that post, that's when I was like, okay, I need to, because I'd had her when I posted that and I was like, I need to get back into this space. And also and we spoke about this on your podcast, but there's so much, not like power, but just the positiveness on, like being able to create awareness around your own experience and what that means to other people. And again, we will touch on this from like your community and how we met, but. When I posted something recently, and actually I think it was the podcast we did, one of my colleagues who I know, but we're not super close, she reached out to me and she said it meant everything listening to that interview. And then she told me she went through the same things recently. So then I continued to kinda support her through that, if you will. And I was like, Hey call me, text me, whatever you need. And now she's actually going to hopefully go see my doctor. Aw. But again, that was because of a conversation we had and people listen to it and it resonates. And there's so much powerful to that. But I feel I got into my own feelings of not wanting to post on things. I just didn't, I truly didn't know how to navigate that conversation. Yeah. Which is so sad. So sad when it's such a happy time.

kristen

I know. I'm happy for you. What was her due date or what day did she actually,

francene

She was

kristen

come into the world.

francene

She was due at the end of the year. And she came on the 23rd of December. So we were able to get out by Christmas Eve.

kristen

Oh.

francene

So our doctor was like, amazing. We're like, all right, let's get her out. Yeah. Is she right

kristen

there? Is she just

francene

sleeping? She is and she is ma I forgot like newborn and like the noises they make.

kristen

Yeah, I

francene

know all the,

kristen

yeah.

francene

So no, she is sitting, living her best life, being part of this podcast.

kristen

Oh, I, yeah.

francene

But yeah, so everything went well. It was, oh my God. It's just been amazing.

kristen

Yeah. It's everything that you dreamt and hoped.

francene

Yes. And I feel I have especially going through. What we've gone through. My every day, the gratitude I have and even even like I remember with Luna when When you do like the night feeds and you're like, I'm so tired, I'm so exhausted. You like the sleep deprived. You're so emotional. Yeah. And I remember just feeling like frustrated. This time I can't express how like when I'm feeding her at night, I will just sit with her and then I'm like, oh my God, I've been sitting for an hour. I need to go to sleep. Yeah. But I'm just so content'cause I appreciate it so much more.

kristen

Yes. Yes.

francene

I really

kristen

do. I felt the exact same. Yeah. I just, I couldn't really relate to some friends that had. Quote, unquote normal experiences in pregnancy and postpartum and all of that. Because they would just say oh, I hope you're getting your sleep now.'cause you're really not gonna sleep when

francene

Yeah,

kristen

your baby. And

francene

true story,

kristen

I remember loving the sleepless nights

francene

yeah, same.

kristen

The house is so quiet. You're cuddling, you're looking out the window. I just remember enjoying every moment. The good and the bad and the hard and,

francene

yeah.

kristen

Yeah. It's totally different. So

francene

I, I think if there are ways of taking positives from such a horribly negative situation, that's one of them.'cause I will tell you from going through a normal, like pregnancy. I took that for granted. I really did. And I remember complaining and, oh, when will this end? And this time I was like, oh my God. And I don't care if I don't sleep tonight. I do not care. I'm ao okay with this. Yeah. I appreciate every moment. And I think people that have suffered, and this is a general statement, I appreciate, not everyone feels this way, but I really think if you've gone through loss, you appreciate these moments 10 times more.

kristen

A hundred percent.

francene

Yeah, I know we've gone straight in. But

kristen

it's hard. Not you.

francene

I know. I know. But I really appreciate you coming on and, creating space and having this conversation. And hopefully as the listeners can hear, we are very familiar with one another. And we've known each other for a while, albeit virtual one of these days we will meet. I know it. I hope so. I believe it.

kristen

Hope

francene

we will have a reunion person. But I will say, so I met Kristen virtually a number of years ago after I suffered my Epco pregnancy and through her community and support, it truly was a space for me to be like, I'm not alone. There's others out there and there's other kind of conversations that we can have and create awareness that honestly helped, like you are one of the few people that truly helped me through that time. And it really made me want to speak out more about this because I didn't know anyone else that had gone through it. And even when it comes to like loss in general, we don't talk about it enough. And it's just so sad. Just before we get into this, I just really wanted the listeners to know just how much you mean to me and how much you helped me through that. Very difficult time. Aw. But for That's

kristen

the sweet.

francene

It's the truth. Trust me. Even my husband knows all about you. I was like, oh, guess who I'm interviewing today? And he was like, Hey, you guys have had the podcast before. And I was like that was on her. W but I need her to be on my wand. Yeah. So even he knows how much you mean to me. But for our listeners who may be new here, can you please share who you are and how the Epco pregnancy support came to be?

kristen

Yeah. Thank you for all of those kind words by the way. It just, it makes all the vulnerability of what I share that more meaningful to me. But I started my Instagram account back in 2022 when I had my ectopic pregnancy. I just, like you were saying, I felt so alone in my feelings regarding it, and I just felt like I was looking for a space, whether that be through a podcast, through Instagram, through a Facebook group to connect with other women who've gone through it because it is very traumatic. And I felt like I found. Some Facebook groups, but I think they scared me more than helped me because I don't know, I just think it was more of a scary community to be honest. And I found Instagram posts here and there that shared their topic story, but I didn't find an actual account that was dedicated to ectopic pregnancy awareness and support and all of that. So I first started my Instagram as my own online journal, if you will, to just get what I was feeling out there. And at the time, I enrolled myself in online therapy right away. And they had recommended journaling and I thought why don't I just make an Instagram account and I can journal that way and just share everything that I'm experiencing and that quickly. Not grew, but I think my appetite for sharing that content grew because women were reaching out to me. Yeah. Like yourself. And it wasn't really until I started connecting with other women through my Instagram that I thought, man, this is actually really helping people. And helping people just fills my heart.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

And that's what I've been doing since 2022. Just a little bit more background. I ended up having my rainbow baby after my ectopic pregnancy in December of 2023. So the following year of my ectopic, I conceived and had my baby and then come. August of 2025, I had a miscarriage. So I've experienced two losses in the last couple years and those experiences were definitely different, but I've, I'm still grieving my miscarriage loss to this day.

francene

I can only, yeah, imagine. And just for the listeners, you also do have a podcast and I was just catching up on the recent episodes and the fact that you start this community through, some advice on journaling and you didn't just do that privately, you did that so vulnerably, like out there. To help others, not just yourself is amazing and the same, having that episode in August where you spoke about the miscarriage loss oh my gosh. It I, I appreciate you talking about it because again, when I was listening to it, it made me, think back to when I also had like miscarriages too. And it, it's just the uncertainty. And like you talked about how there was a moment you were like, oh my gosh, wait I'm pregnant. And then you immediately get that loss taken away from you and it's that emotional rollercoaster. And then there's a component where you go back for the blood test and you think, but is there a chance? And I'm sure women out there who have gone through it and that process where you have to go back in, you get the blood test to see if the HHCG is rising or if it's lowering. And I think most people, you do hope, what if it does rise? And it, and even though and you're prepared, you're not prepared. Yeah. And it's, the loss is taken away from you, whether it's, early or later is just gut wrenching. And I'm sure, and please if you're comfortable talking through it, but I'm sure it also brought back then the memories of the epco as, as well, EP topic.

kristen

Oh my gosh. Yeah. It brought back so many memories.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

And even like you said when I was first bleeding and I didn't even know I was pregnant.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

I went to my ob found out I was pregnant, and then, five minutes later, she told me that it's most likely going to end in loss. It was like such a whiplash feeling. Yeah. And then I automatically started thinking, oh my gosh, what if this is a topic?

francene

Yeah.

kristen

Yeah. I just, I wasn't even thinking about a normal I say normal. I feel like it's it's such a weird thing to say, like I just went past thinking it was a miscarriage and went straight to ectopic. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Am I gonna have to get methotrexate again?

francene

Yeah. You immediately go

kristen

to

francene

worst case.

kristen

Yes, 100%. And I know that's just where our minds lead, but yeah. Gosh, I totally forgot that I. Recorded that miscarriage podcast. I don't even remember what I said in it, but I do remember starting it and saying, if I don't do this now, I'll probably forget about all of those feelings

francene

Yes.

kristen

In the moment,

francene

which

kristen

yeah, it's bringing me back right now.

francene

Yeah. It was again, very vulnerable and Incredible that you are willing and able to kinda have that raw conversation. Like again, there is sometimes a difference in when you are the one interviewing or asking the questions versus you are there solo talking through that experience. But again, it immediately brought me back as well. And, gosh. It's just, it's so sad. It really is. It's so sad and I know these conversations are never positive, but by having them, you're creating more awareness. And I know there are gonna be people listening to this feeling less alone. And that is the whole purpose. And that's what I continue to think about in my mind. I'm like, it sucks talking about it, but We have to,

kristen

Yeah. Someone else listening will understand what you're saying and they'll feel validated. And like you said, less alone. And I'd also say that, whenever I interview someone and we get done with the interview and they just breathe a sigh of relief and they're like, oh my gosh, that felt so therapeutic.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

I felt that's what I wanted to feel when I finally decided I'm gonna share my miscarriage story too.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

Because I wanted that feeling, and it did help me a lot to go through

francene

step by

kristen

step, the entire story. Yeah. It helps to talk about it not only for others, but for yourself too.

francene

Yes. Yeah. Especially if you're that person. I am a hundred percent that person. I need to talk through it. But I think there's also, and maybe you have it differently, but I think when it comes to like friends you speak about it to a certain extent and to a certain amount of detail. But I don't know, like in the episode, I don't know if that's something that you have gone and discussed, like with your friends to that extent, but I think. For me, it's I need to talk through it in that level of detail to even speaking out loud. It's you're like, gosh, that's how I felt in that moment. And the same with, the pregnancy. I can imagine that when you started sharing it and speaking about it out loud, it then also brings to light just the traumatic ness of that experience.'cause a lot of times we play things down.

kristen

Yes.

francene

But we're like, oh, that was bad. There are other people worse off in the world and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then when you truly look at the facts and the details, you're like, gosh, that's a lot. That's heavy.

kristen

Yeah. I remember thinking that a couple months after my topic, I felt like once I received methotrexate, I was just in fight or flight mode. I was like, Hey, this is what's gonna happen. Yeah. These are the victims I'm gonna have to deal with and this is just how life is gonna be for a little bit. Yeah. I knew it was gonna be hard, but then when I finally took a step back a couple months down the line after I got methotrexate I looked back and I was like, how did I do that?

francene

Yeah.

kristen

How did I just, I don't know. How did I walk into the clinic and sit in that chair, get that medication, knowing what it was gonna do, and knowing how you were gonna feel the next couple months and then, I just threw myself into work and worked to distract myself and really, I just don't know how I picked myself up off the ground.

francene

'Cause you're a strong, great person. But it is amazing when you look back and you think, oh my gosh, did I like deal with that at the time? Or did I just go into autopilot where you're like, I gotta get this done. And then I think it's then later when you truly then deal with it. And I think that's probably what a lot of people will do is you put it out your mind, you're like, I need to get through this. And then it's not until later where you then start truly reflecting and thinking, oh my God. So if you are comfortable, can you talk us through your. Like your experience,'cause I appreciate it's different to mine. And then also as you talk through, having to go into, the doctor's clinic in order to get that medication, like what that medication is and what that means as part of this.

kristen

Yeah. So let's see. My husband and I got married in 2019 and we knew we wanted a family, but wanted to wait a little while. Yeah. We wanted a couple years to

francene

enjoy marriage.

kristen

Yeah. Enjoy marriage and vacation and just have some fun and

francene

yeah.

kristen

The holidays of 2021 rolled around and we thought, okay, I think. I think we're ready to start trying in the new year. So January of 2022. I don't remember when I got off birth control. I think it was a couple months prior, but knowing that we wanted to start trying early in the year. Went off birth control and then when we felt good enough, we wanted to try it. So that was January and like most, we thought it would take a while. Yeah. Because that's what people say. And I also know some couples have success right away. And thankfully we did have success right away and we were completely shocked. So that month I conceived and February 5th. I remember it was a Saturday and our friends were coming over for the night and I just felt a little off and I thought, I'm just gonna go take a test and see what pops up. And sure enough, two, two lines popped up on the test and I was super excited. I told my husband he was super excited. I think he was more nervous just because it happened.

francene

He's wait that quick?

kristen

I know

francene

you're like, oh, take a while. No.

kristen

Yeah. Nope. It's time anyway we conceived right away, and I don't know the specific dates, but I do know that shortly after testing positive, I started to spot and based on research and me speaking with my doctor. I heard that it was normal to spot and if it becomes excessive or changes color That's when you should reach out and go get checked or speak with your doctor to see what the next step is, to be sure everything's okay.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

And it must have been a couple weeks where I continued to bleed and it became a little bit worse. And so my doctor said, okay let's just make sure everything is normal and this pregnancy is viable. So they had me go get my HCGs tested and they were on the lower end. I think I tested positive really early. And that could have also been a sign that something was a little off. I'm not sure. But I. Immediately got my numbers back. They were low two hundreds and went back two days later to see if they doubled. And that double would signify if it was a viable, healthy pregnancy.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

And my numbers didn't double, but they said, it's still early. Maybe your numbers are just taking a little while to double. So I went back another 48 hours later and again, they didn't double and at this point I don't even think they doubled in those four days. So it was just a very slow rise. And I remember getting a call from my doctor mentioning that this probably isn't a viable pregnancy. It could be a miscarriage, but it could also be something called an ectopic pregnancy.

francene

Oh, so they said that straight away? Wow.

kristen

Yeah, they said it straight away. And I think that last day that I had my HCGs, it was a Friday, and I know on Sundays a lot of the labs in my area are closed. When I was on the phone with my doctor, I said is there anything else I can do? What can I get another lab done? I just, I'm always in the mindset of I just need to keep trying. Yeah.

francene

What's next? Yeah.

kristen

I just, I can't, I don't give up or quit easily. Yeah. And she said, yes, you can go get more labs done, but. Please be mindful of your body and pain or discomfort because if you have any pain, you need to go to the hospital.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

Away. And she explained why. And of course after that call I started Googling ectopic pregnancies. And that's when I figured out how serious it was and I am, this is my first time being pregnant. I'd only tried for a month and I am, thrown into this. And now I am, just this statistic. And anyway, I we ended up going to the hospital on Sunday to get labs done since the labs were closed and got those results back. And the numbers increased, but again, didn't double. So then I. The next step my doctor wanted was to get a vaginal ultrasound done to rule out if the pregnancy is in my uterus. And they couldn't find anything. And so they just suspected that

francene

when they did the ultrasound.

kristen

Yeah. They couldn't find anything. So they never even located where my pregnancy was. Which I've always I wish I knew.'cause I also don't like wondering. But, I left that office and I asked one more time for another lab. I said, can I please have one more lab? I just, as we were talking earlier, I just couldn't lose hope. Yeah. I was just hoping magically my HCGs would become, yeah. 1200 and everything would be fine.

francene

But especially knowing their Inc. Like you were seeing that increase in the labs and Right. You're doing the ultrasound and, Yeah.

kristen

Yeah. They were increasing. So I thought, this is fine. It's still

francene

possible. Yeah.

kristen

Yeah. But sure enough, after I requested that last lab and I got those results, the numbers started going down. And at this time, my numbers were probably only five 60, so they were still really low. And so I saw the email come through and then my doctor called me and she goes, so you, I, did you see the results? And I go, yes. She goes, we're gonna need you to go get methotrexate right away. You need to go this afternoon. We need to catch it. Early, if we do it earlier, the better the outcome. So they gave me these really strange directions of an infusion center. That's where I had to get my methotrexate. And I know it's different everywhere. Some women can get methotrexate at their ob gyn office. Some have to go to the hospital. Some cases are infusion centers. And so Jeff and I, my husband, we walked into this random building with, people receiving infusions and gosh, I just felt like my world stopped when I walked into the patient room. And I vividly remember the artwork on the wall and. The questions they asked me and the questions I asked them. And, it was just such a learning curve. Yeah. And they were like, do you want it in your arm or do you want it in your bum? And I was like I didn't even know I was gonna get a choice. I just felt like I didn't get the proper information leading up to that appointment, or even throughout the entire

francene

process.

kristen

Yeah. I just felt like I was looking to the internet for information. Because I wasn't getting properly told.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

And I don't think that's, a knock on my care team. I think it's just a lot of medical professionals don't, just don't know how to. Care.

Yeah.

kristen

For people going through it, I think

francene

it's so matter of fact, right? This is what it is, this is what you need to get, go get it. Versus, wait, what does this mean? Can we talk about this? What will I experience during this appointment? Like it's sometimes I can't think of the term, but it's like the bedside manner kinda,

kristen

yes, it

francene

is.

kristen

It is. Yeah. Yeah. So March 1st is when I received methotrexate. So from February 5th To March 1st. That's, it's a month, but so much changed in a month and I felt like there were so many unknowns that entire month. And, before I started bleeding heavily, I went to, gosh, what's the store name? Oh, it was, bye-bye, baby. They still had a bunch of Bye-bye, baby. Oh, yeah. But I think they're gone now. They, I think

francene

Yeah.

kristen

Yeah. They went bankrupt. But Jeff and I were so excited and, we thought, oh, we're pregnant. We're gonna have a baby this year. We just, we had no thought of loss in our minds because, we were just so excited and we went and ordered nursery furniture and it, I remember them saying, it's on back order, so it'll arrive in several months. And, but anyway, I say all of that because we just were so excited about the entire thing and what our lives were gonna be, and then After we ordered the nursery furniture, I think that week after is when everything started going downhill. And just talking a little bit down the line on that topic of nursery furniture, I remember getting a call in August of that year. Oh, hi. Is this Kirsten? Your nursery furniture arrived at Byebye Baby on 28th Street. We just wanna know when you could pick it up. We're so excited for you. And I am, I'm like still just depressed as ever. Yeah. At this moment. And oh my gosh. I just, that was like one of the worst calls because it was almost like reliving No, I'm sure. Situation.

francene

Yeah. Yeah.

kristen

My husband and I didn't end up picking that furniture up until December. It was just sitting in the warehouse for months.'cause I couldn't get myself to go get it.

francene

Yeah. I don't blame you.

kristen

It's just wild. The details of the experiences that a lot of people don't understand That are really triggering. Like it's, it can be the smallest thing, but the sadness and trauma of it is so deep.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

But yeah. After I received methotrexate, I just, man, those three months were awful. I was so depressed. I was not myself. And I say three months because you have to wait to try to conceive again because the drug is in your system for that long. So because of that, I was experiencing all of those heavy symptoms. Throughout that time, and honestly, I think the way I got through it was just that excitement for trying again. Yeah. And I wanted to try right away. Yeah. Some women aren't ready for that, and I completely understand why, but for me, I wanted to try right away. So once those three months were up, I was like, okay, is where's my period? My period isn't coming and it hasn't come since being pregnant. And so I waited and come August, I called my doctor and I said I still don't have my period. Is this.

francene

Is from the medication, is it, or

kristen

She never really gave me a straight answer. I wanna say yes, because I've always been very regular. But she gave me a medication called Provera to induce my period, and that did work. But I feel like on a

francene

regular cycle. Oh, okay.

kristen

Yeah. I felt like the drug caused my cycles to be irregular. And I know that happens after pregnancy loss in general.

francene

Yeah. But still, you would expect it to, come back. Sooner. And then if you don't have the information, you don't know. You're just expecting, okay, three months. Then my body should be getting back to that kind of normal state. So if you're not seeing that, it's then, okay, why is this happening?

kristen

Exactly. There's so many questions that pop up. Yeah. Throughout the entire experience. So once I finally got my cycle, my husband and I tried for a couple months, but we just felt I don't know, maybe I was ovulating later or we just weren't timing things correctly. So in December I started doing some tests and that was lab work to check my progesterone levels. And those ended up fine. And what that does is you test your progesterone at a certain day of the month. I think it's the 21st day, which is around ovulation time. And that shows you if you ovulated. At the right time or not. And it showed me that I did. And that was checking, and my doctor just said, just be patient. Just be patient and it'll be fine. The

francene

worst thing you wanna hear. Don't worry about it. Don't think about it.

kristen

Yeah. Just relax.

francene

It's all I'm thinking about.

kristen

I know. And again, I just, I, at the time I went and saw a friend out in Canada and she was, she's been trying to get pregnant for years and she at the time was doing IIS

francene

Uhhuh

kristen

and her doctor prescribed her Clomid Uhhuh. And that was the first time I ever heard about that and what it did, and. So I brought that up to my doctor. I said, is this something I can try? Can I try a drug called Clomid or what? Whatever you would recommend. And so she prescribed me Femara, which is very similar drug that helps with ovulation. And so I, I took that, let's see, January, February and March of 2023. And that March I did a pelvic exam around the time of ovulation to visually see that I was ovulating and to measure like my eggs and just to see if everything was healthy to carry a pregnancy. And everything turned out fine. And sure enough, that was the month I conceived my rainbow baby. I don't know if it. Had to do with Femara. I don't know if it had to do with the ultrasound and seeing that everything was fine or, yeah, a mix of both. But I don't know I just always advocate for women to ask the questions. The worst your doctor can say is no for certain tests and things like that. But I do think once you go through a pregnancy loss, it's important to do testing of whatever sorts or whatever your doctor recommends, just to give you some peace of mind.

francene

Yeah, I agree. And also just to, yes, the peace of mind, but ensure is there something else going on? And then at least you have all the information, but even, I think what's so challenging too, is so how you found out about that. Medication was through having the conversation with your friend. So often it's, if we're comfortable enough to disclose to our friends, Hey, I'm struggling to conceive, or whatever the subject is, it's it's then okay, if they've gone through something, they're able to say, okay, why recommend this, and this. But isn't it so sad that like doctors aren't, coming forward and being like, okay, here are the options. And I think for me, it wasn't until I had fully gone to a fertility doctor that the options were laid out versus the ob GYN that I was. Dealing with, I felt like I kept on asking, and it was to your point, just be patient. It will happen, everything's fine. And I think sometimes, especially if I think we're quite similar, it's like you're determined. You want that next step. It can be so soul destroying to just walk away and think, okay, but what else can I do? What else can be done? Because that month after month when you're trying to conceive is also something we don't talk enough. Talk enough about. It is hard.

kristen

It's

francene

It is hard. I remember getting my period and having all the emotions of, I hate that I have my period right now. Like it's, even that feels weirdly like a loss every month. It's It

kristen

does.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

It does. It's. Especially that two week wait from

francene

Yeah.

kristen

Trying and then getting your period. It is like you have so much hope. Yeah. And it's almost like you have so much excitement to test to see if you're pregnant, and then when it's negative, it, there's just such a, again, it's that whiplash feeling.

francene

Yes, it is.

kristen

You go from being excited to the complete opposite. And it's all you can think about for that day or for a couple days, and you don't wanna be social and

francene

Yeah.

kristen

It is just, yeah it's one of those devastating feelings that not enough women talk about and gosh, so many women go through it.

francene

I know. I know. Even, yeah. Even if they haven't had loss, but you were trying unsuccessfully, like I would remember. You would like I would then struggle with, are these period symptoms or is this pregnancy symptoms'cause like my boobs are sore. Yes. I don't feel good, like I'm tired and I would have that rollercoaster of this is it. And the amount of money I wasted on pregnancy tests and I actually got to a point was just gonna, that where I was like, I'm not buying them anymore. And one of the one of the things I observed in, in this pregnancy, and again, full disclosure as I went through IVF.

kristen

Yep.

francene

But when you have that two week window where you're waiting to see if the implantation worked, you then do a pregnancy test or you go into the doctor's office and they do the test. I never took a pregnancy test. I was so in denial of. I never want to take a pregnancy test again.'cause I just found that process to be so triggering that I was like, I'm gonna wait to go. I, it wasn't even like I was impatient. I was like, I will wait for the doctor to tell me. I just can't, I can't pee in a stick. It was, yeah. I'm like, I can't go through that again.

kristen

Yeah, no, I know. I, there have been moments where my husband will not push me to PA stick, but he'll encourage me like, oh, maybe it's the day we find out you should go piano stick. I'm like, but I don't wanna be sad when I see the kids.

francene

Yeah. I'm like, let me just wait for for, to make sure my period fully doesn't come.

kristen

Yeah.

francene

And then we'll think about it. I honestly got to that point where I was like, if I just wait a couple of days, if I'm not, my period will come. And I, that is easier for me to deal with than.

kristen

Yeah.

francene

I don't know. It's,

kristen

yeah. How long did you try to conceive before you started IVF?

francene

We tried for about three and a half years. And that was during, so yeah, I had the, I talk it. I can't say it

kristen

a topic.

Gosh,

francene

it's hard to say. So I had that first and then I think I had a miscarriage before. Okay. Then that happened. Then we waited to your point it's similar. I didn't have the medication, but they said to wait three months and then we had another miscarriage, and then we just kept on trying. I was honestly at a point where I was like, man, I don't think I can do this anymore. So then we went to see someone and. Like one of my friends recommended this doctor, so we were like, let's just go see where our options are. And in hindsight, and again, everyone is different. I wish I'd gone sooner. Yeah. Because every time I went to my OB, GYNI was like, why isn't this happening? What can I do? And then I was like, is it because when that happened to me, my tube ruptured. So I only had one tube and I was like, how do I know what side I'm ovulating? So even just having a fertility doctor, of course I was ovulating more on the side. I didn't have a tube. And I was like, of course my body's doing that to me. Yeah. So you'd have to go check. And sure enough, I was like, yep. Ovulating on the wrong side. Yeah. But even just having that information, I just wish I'd spoken to someone sooner.'cause it's also sometimes like time, depending on, when you want to have kids, when you start trying, like to your point, like me and my husband were married for we'd been together like a long time before we even tried for Luna, like our first And even after her, we waited three and a half years before we started trying. So like in hindsight you're like probably should have tried earlier. And, of course you can say that to yourself, but no I wish I don't,'cause everything works out the way it truly should. So I don't wish to change anything, but I think if we had better education and people to speak to and people like you, like advocating in this space and, I spoke to someone. Earlier who is also on Instagram and it's at explaining IVF. Okay. Who fully breaks everything down. I'm like, gosh, we have such good information now. Yeah. That I wish I'd access to that before, but then I wasn't looking for it, so I don't know. You know what I mean? If you're not looking for it, it doesn't come up. My algorithm comes up with what I am thinking about or doing in my life, so that never came up.

kristen

Yeah. I know. It's hard to play that game of, oh, I wish I did this. I wish I did this sooner.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

It's really hard.

francene

And actually. If it's okay for me to say, like, when I listened to that recent episode you did about your miscarriage loss. One of the things I note it down and I wrote a note to myself. Oh, was you mentioned like the guilt. The guilt of I shouldn't have done this, or I shouldn't have drunk that or eaten this, or blah, blah blah.

kristen

Yeah.

francene

And man, I relate to that so much.'cause every time something had happened or each month I wasn't pregnant, I truly reflected back and was like, maybe it's because I did this. I pushed myself too much here. I worked too much. And it's crazy how much we immediately blame ourselves.

kristen

I

francene

know. Like, why? Why do we do this? And I was listening to you and I was like, gosh, I do the exact same. But it's just so sad that we immediately place, it's like you need something to blame.

kristen

Yeah.

francene

And typically you look to yourself for that and

kristen

Yeah.

francene

Yeah. It's

kristen

100%. And I remember talking to my therapist about that guilt, and she goes, if your friend came to you and said that she was experiencing a miscarriage, would you ask her, what did you eat and drink

francene

right.

kristen

In the last month? Like you would never put that guilt and shame on your friend.

francene

No. Why

kristen

do it yourself or why you do it? Yeah.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

But it's just so easy to do and you always wanna have a reason because that helps. Yes. With your mental It does. And physical. Yeah. And I remember thinking the same with my topic.'cause at the time I was running a lot and I thought me running during that time caused my topic to happen. Yeah. It's just, it's sad that we do that. Yeah.

francene

It's to

kristen

one another or not to one another, but ourselves

francene

to yourselves. Yeah. It's like you're the biggest critic and I remember like the one time we experienced loss and not that me and my husband we certainly do not joke about it, but I remember the night before we had a movie night and I had like sour sweets like candy because I love sour candy. And what's weird is I don't like it now and I now I'm saying out loud, it's probably'cause of this. And I had a bag of it. I was like, why not? And we, you were pregnant and then I had the loss like the following day and I was like, oh man, I shouldn't have eaten that candy. My husband was like, really?

kristen

Yeah,

francene

you think that's gonna do anything?

kristen

Yeah,

francene

but it's just I, I punished myself so much because I was like, I shouldn't have done it. I know it was my fault. And you're like, Jesus, I just had candy.

kristen

It's not

francene

so ridiculous.

kristen

So ridiculous. And, you also have to think too, and I've told myself this too, and my therapist has said this as well, that, there are many women that go on to have pregnant healthy pregnancies and give birth.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

That, and this is all. Not good, there are women that do drugs Yeah. And drink and are abused and they go on. And so us just saying oh, it's totally shouldn't have

francene

run.

kristen

Yeah. It's just, it's silly. It, I know I, I haven't ever done extensive research on a miscarriage, but I think it is the same as an ectopic, but I know at least with an ectopic, there is nothing you can do No. To prove that it's just a natural thing that happens in your body.

francene

Yes.

kristen

And you just have to trust science and it just happens.

francene

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Like one of like one of the. Pieces. I guess that gave me a little bit of comfort on the miscarriage side is this is your body saying this is not good. It is not meant to be. And we are like essentially removing it because this is not it's not viable. Yeah. And that was the main way I could logically under, I guess get through it, is this is not meant to be, like, you can't, you wouldn't want to push for this.

kristen

No.

francene

But it obviously doesn't make it any easier.

kristen

No.

francene

So within your community and space, what are you looking to continue to do in the future? What does that look like for you? Because I feel like you've created such a great environment already.

kristen

Thanks. Thanks. I know I've been vocal recently on Instagram. By sharing that since I had my miscarriage in August, it has been a little bit harder for me to show up and be consistent.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

As you can imagine, like yours and others in the space, a lot of my algorithm is pregnancy announcement. Yeah. And loss. And and those are all amazing things. But I've had to protect myself a little bit from that. And I do think every one of my followers has been very supportive. And I do think that since having my miscarriage, I've i've shared ectopic pregnancy specific content, but I've also shared pregnancy loss. Content because now I'm not just in the ectopic bucket. I'm in a couple. Yeah. And I'm gonna continue to do that. And I think you reaching out to do this podcast together really sparked my excitement for the year because at the end of 2025, I knew my work was gonna slow down in the new year. And I thought, what truly makes me happy? What can I do to impact this community? And I had so much fun when I was recording and publishing episodes Yeah. For my podcast that I wanna get back. I love that

francene

and

kristen

I want to have more guests on, outside of women who've experienced pregnancy loss, but I want guests on that, our fertility doctors and can Talk through what we can do to try to conceive again or talk to a specialist to talk more about the science of pregnancy loss and yeah. So I really wanna get into that.

francene

I love that

kristen

this year. And I actually just today shared that I'm gonna kick it off on February 2nd.

francene

I saw that. Yes.

kristen

I'm

francene

super excited.

kristen

I'm really excited. I have a couple people lined up.

francene

That's cool.

kristen

And I even thought about. Bringing back a couple women like yourself who've gone through pregnancy after loss to talk through that aspect of it.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

'Cause I think that's important as well. And I know I've had women on the podcast that shared their pregnancy loss story and their Rainbow baby success stories. But I think it'd be cool to bring back a couple that can be more detailed about their pregnancy after loss story and

francene

Yeah, I agree.

kristen

Just the happiness of it all, and I think, like we talked about earlier, the appreciation that you have for some of those harder moments

francene

Yeah.

kristen

In pregnancy and newborn life that you really don't. Take for granted because you wanted them so much and you hoped for them so hard.

francene

Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. And if I can also throw out an idea is me, my husbands speak about this a lot, is the I understand from a physical standpoint the male is not experiencing that, but the emotional piece. Yeah. Even just like the male perspective. And like my husband says that quite often, I feel, I've like you in other communities and it's, let's be honest, way more women sharing their stories. There's not as much space for men to do the same. Maybe that could be another, I love that idea perspective, right? Because you have a lot of, yeah. Partners out there who are also looking online to help support Their wives or, partners going through this that it's hard for them to understand.

kristen

Yeah. I love that idea. And I'll probably be reaching back out to you to see if your husband

francene

Oh, I will nominate him. Honestly, he is, he's also a big advocate for speaking out about this and, providing support and advice to, his friends. And I love that about him. So

kristen

Yeah.

francene

I nominate him.

kristen

Yes.

francene

I'm biased.

kristen

Yeah. Your husband sounds amazing and I remember asking my husband, Jeff last year, I said, I would really like you to come on.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

So I can ask you questions from that male perspective and. I, just even three years later, he still wasn't really ready to externally talk about it. Yeah. Men are so quick to make sure we're okay.

francene

Yes.

kristen

After the fact. And they put their own emotions on the back burner and a hundred

francene

percent.

kristen

Yeah. Their grief comes later.

francene

Yes. I think so too. And again, it's, and especially for us, like people like us, like I do, I find this very therapeutic. I love speaking about things'cause I think it allows me to understand a situation better or it gives me I'm able to like, relate to you. And I do feel less alone when I'm speaking about this, but I understand not everyone is like that, but I think men. Let's be honest, they're not truly having those deep discussions with their, male friends when they're out for beer, oh, yeah. And yes, they're talking about, and I'm generalizing, you're talking about sports other things and life in general, but I can't imagine they're deeply discussing this and I think some want that space. Yeah. And some need that support. And to have that relatability with, gosh, it's not just us going through this because there's so much unknown, yes. I didn't even know what this was before I experienced it, and I think you were the same when your doctor mentioned it. You're like, what? What is this?

kristen

Yeah. Even to this day when I tell people that I've had ectopic, they're like, what?

francene

Yes. Same.

kristen

And it's

francene

same

kristen

how in 2026 do people. About this, and I know I talk about this all the time on Instagram, but a topic is just lumped under the category of a miscarriage.

francene

I know.

kristen

And that drives

francene

So different.

kristen

It's so different. Yeah. And I, and sometimes I get backlash when I say they're not equal. But I always make sure to say it doesn't mean the sadness and the grief isn't there.

francene

Yes. Yeah.

kristen

It's just the experiences and journey. There's one that's far more severe and traumatic

francene

and Oh, it's life threatening. Yeah. And I think that's what I, you're right. Like when I was back then, like talking about it with my friends, I could tell from their reaction it was. A miscarriage and you're like no. Like I literally nearly died. Yes, there was emergency surgery. Yes. This is not it's just I don't know, like I know like you don't wanna diminish other experiences, but it's just so traumatic and I think for you and having to get the medication and for me having to get the surgery, it's like you are having to remove. It from your body. And that I struggle to get my head around. I'm like, because it's not viable. You can't, no, it can't continue to grow. There's nothing you can do about this.'Cause if there was, obviously we would, do that. But that is also the difference. You're actively making that decision. You have to remove this, yeah. And there's

kristen

nothing you can do.

francene

No. And even that, to have to get your mind around that. And I'm sure, again, when you went in to get the medication, you're like, I am going in to get this, and it is gonna remove this from my body.

kristen

Yeah.

francene

And this is something that I've wanted for, that's, no,

kristen

it's,

francene

yeah.

kristen

It's heartbreaking.

francene

Yeah. It truly is.

kristen

And I, on that same line, I definitely had, strains on relationships with friends because they just couldn't understand the severity of the situation, and I don't think they supported me in the way that I was hoping.

francene

Yeah.

kristen

You see so many posts now sharing how to support a friend. Yeah. Going through pregnancy loss and, I just always hoped my friends would research a little bit or

francene

Yeah.

kristen

Figure out how to support and, because I know I would do that. Yeah. If my friend told me, but I just had sadness knowing that it wasn't really reciprocated or, I don't know. It's tough when you go through things like this. You learn who your real friends are.

francene

Oh yeah. The 1000010% and the people that continue to check in Even after the fact. And, it's not just that one and done conversation. It's, how are you feeling? And one of, one of my friends, Lynn, she's one of my closest friends, even now, I'm four weeks postpartum. And she will still message me every kind of couple of days. And she's oh my God, it's so uplifted. Like I don't think she appreciates how much it means to me, but she'll be like, girl, you've got this. You've gone through so much and you're amazing. And she brings it back to the journey We have had to get to this point. And I love, honestly, she's been amazing. Even when I went in for my egg retrieval, she came with me'cause my husband was traveling, but

kristen

that's so sweet.

francene

Yes. And it's those people who continue to check in, even though it's uncomfortable asking, how is your journey? How's everything going? And so many people would rather avoid that conversation. And wait for you to bring it up or wait for you to make an announcement and then, they pick back up. But it's those people that are willing to share that uncomfortable, sad discussion.

kristen

Yeah. Yeah. Those are real friends.

francene

Yes.

kristen

The ones that. Go through the hard times with you.

francene

Yes. Holding your hand, like literally side by side. Versus the ones that show up when you have an announcement and they're like, oh my God, congratulations. You're like, where have you been these last three years?

kristen

Yeah. Seriously.

francene

It is so true. Then you're like, now you wanna have coffee?

kristen

Right now, you wanna talk? No. That's funny. That happened to me when I was finally pregnant and I, yeah, it's just I have such a hard time'cause I, my personality is so empathetic and caring and so I am that friend that is always the one checking in. I'm the one reaching out to schedule hangouts, but I feel like it's not really reciprocated on the other end and it can be really exhausting and sad.

francene

Yes. Yeah, this,

kristen

but that's amazing that your friend Lynn is

francene

Oh, yeah. Like she is incredible. But yeah be this another conversation even just on navigating friendships as adults and then mom friendships.

kristen

Yeah. Yeah.

francene

That's a whole other beast.

kristen

It's, it is. I'm happy to come on and do more. We could probably think about all sorts of stuff

francene

to talk. I would love that. Honestly, I would love that.'cause one of the things as I was thinking, okay, now I have free time, if you will and I, she's

kristen

going good.

francene

I know Anna, like I keep on looking over thinking she's gonna wake up any second and it'll be immediate. So I'm like, oh my God, how much time do we have? But yeah, I was thinking about okay, what do I want from this space and from these conversations? And so one of the things I'm doing is. I guess like this will be part of a mini series where it's talking about the, like fertility, like detour. So trying to speak to some people and then do some solo episodes, but then outside of that it's even just navigating like motherhood relationships. And so yes, there's any other topics. I would love to continue talking to you'cause I feel like you were so easy to speak to.

kristen

Good. I, that's how I felt when I interviewed you too.

francene

Zi, this is like easy. I'm like, I wish we lived closer.

kristen

I know. It's just a short plane ride.

francene

True story.

kristen

How far out are you from Houston?

francene

Not that far. We're just in Tomball, so It's

kristen

Okay.

francene

Just outside of the center of Houston.

kristen

Okay.

francene

Why are you coming?

kristen

I'm not coming anytime soon.

francene

You're like, no,

kristen

my husband always wants to go down to Texas.

francene

Wow. You gotta come down. Rodeo season is the best and it's in March. Just maybe not right now as we're about to have a deep freeze, apparently. I know.

kristen

Yeah, we're in a snowstorm right now,

francene

then I can't complain

kristen

because

francene

we're not there yet and we do not get snow. So what we complain about down the south is very different.

kristen

I know. I know. We, I'll have to send you a picture. We have two feet of snow

francene

stop. Oh my God. Please send that picture. Because when it comes to this weekend and we're all complaining about like just frost. Yeah. It can be like, guys, things could be worse.

kristen

It could be way worse. Yeah.

francene

Let's put this into perspective right now.

kristen

Yes. Yes. But yes, I'd be happy to talk to you about. All sorts of topics.

francene

Okay, let me pitch some ideas to you and you can let me know what ones you wanna dip into. But I really appreciate your time and yeah, again, everything you are doing it has just helped me so much and I will always be an advocate for you and your community.

kristen

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I love all of the content you've been sharing and I think the topics that you have on the horizon for your podcast is also really gonna be helpful and beneficial for women. So

francene

yeah, I hope so.

kristen

You,

francene

thanks.