In the third episode of The Glampitect PODcast, we're joined by Morag Sallabanks of Braeview Glamping, which is a glamping site that's currently under construction. She's full of great advice for anyone who wants to set up a glamping site, as she's learned plenty of lessons along the way.
Topics of discussion include:
Glampitect North America is preparing to develop glamping resorts of our own. If you're interested in investing, just fill out this form - it only takes 30 seconds.
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In the third episode of The Glampitect PODcast, we're joined by Morag Sallabanks of Braeview Glamping, which is a glamping site that's currently under construction. She's full of great advice for anyone who wants to set up a glamping site, as she's learned plenty of lessons along the way.
Topics of discussion include:
Glampitect North America is preparing to develop glamping resorts of our own. If you're interested in investing, just fill out this form - it only takes 30 seconds.
Links:
Contact:
Hello, and welcome to the Glampitect podcast. Today I'm joined by Morag Sallabanks, co owner of Braeview glamping. Morag and her husband are in the final stages of setting up their glamping site. It's been a long journey and one that they've learned a lot from. The purpose of today's episode is to exract the lessons they've learned and help anyone thinking of setting up their own side. Topics of discussion include the following what caused take the leap and invest in a glamping site, the best and worst decision she's made throughout the process, and the importance of careful planning before jumping straight into setup. It's an absolute must listen, for anyone thinking of setting up a site or anyone currently in the process. There are loads of lessons to be taken from Morag's experience, and I hope you find it valuable. Hi Morag, how you doing?
Morag Sallabanks:I'm fine. Thanks. How are you?
Nick Purslow:I'm very good, thank you. As usual with our guests, I'd like to get a bit of a backstory about how you got to where you are today. You are in the process of setting up your glamping site, so I'd like you to tell the audience exactly which point of the process you're at, and how far off launching you are.
Morag Sallabanks:Yes, so we got our planning permission for our site on the fourth of June in 2020. And so we had a series of quite stringent conditions we needed to meet having got the actual planning permission. And so that took quite a considerable time and help from other agencies to to get all the information that the council wanted, and to make sure that we met all those conditions before we could start doing any work. So we started working on the site sometime in October, actually physically getting the site ready to put the pods on and get all the utilities in. Unfortunately, we got a bit beaten by the weather just before Christmas, so we didn't manage to get all our utilities in. And it's pretty much rained ever since. So we're currently at the point where the pods are in place, we have the drainage in and the sewage treatment plant in. But we don't actually have electrics running because we can't get the diggers on site to get all their electricity supplies. And so we're just at a really awkward stage now where we really want to be putting the finishing touches on the site and, and getting things moving. But we just, we just have to accept that we have to wait for the weather.
Nick Purslow:Have you sort of got an end date in mind to when you want to launch?
Morag Sallabanks:Oh, it's so difficult. I mean, because we could get a really lovely dry March and you know, if the site was dry in March, we could get everything in and as I say the pods are there, and they're ready to go. But the harsh reality is that we might get a really wet March and April. And that's not going to help us either. So I think we're kind of done with setting targets for when we're going to be open. And we're just going to accept that we'll be open when we'll be open we all we can do is prepare as much of the stuff as we can and get as much done as we can so that when we can get the digger back on the site, we're like, ready, ready to go. As soon as that work's done, but it's just weather dependent. You know, it's frustrating, but it is what it is, we're so close as well, we were so close to get in those trenches done before Christmas, but it just it just didn't happen.
Nick Purslow:Mind you, I suppose with the COVID restrictions, you'd be frustrated as it is if you were about to get up and running anyway.
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah. And there's, there's no doubt that with the best will in the world, COVID has affected, you know, getting going right from the very start. We put our planning application in on the 15th of January. And then of course, you know, everyone at the Council ended up working from home. So the small delays that we had that were maybe three or four or five weeks, that didn't seem so important back then, you know, that has manifested itself into what is now, like quite a huge delay at this end of the of the plan. But the reality is we can't do anything about it. And we just have to try and keep moving forward and doing the best we can with with what we've got really
Nick Purslow:Sounds good. When did you actually first hear of glamping and what made you think that it might be like it might be something you'd like to try as a business investment?
Morag Sallabanks:Well, surprisingly, me and my husband turned it into caravaners, which kind of took us by surprise because that wasn't something that we ever envisaged ourselves doing. We actually spent our honeymoon camping and we went to Silverstone Moto GP in a motorhome and we just got Kinda like that being a week kind of thing I was kind of done with being in a tent, though I'm kind of decided I was past camping. So yeah, so we got a caravan. And we love just like getting away for the weekend. And it was quite good for exploring. We're living in England at the time. So exploring bits of England that I've never been to see in different sites. And there is certain caravan sites that we enjoyed. And other ones that we we didn't, and we found this one, it was only 45 minutes away from our house. But because we were restricted by finishing work on a Friday afternoon, and a lot of sites want you on by eight o'clock, you get a bit restricted to, to where you can get to on a Friday night, and we found a site that we absolutely loved. And we kind of stopped exploring and just started going there to get away at the weekend. And it was great. It's just relaxing and quiet, it was actually an adults only site. So we don't have kids. So that was nice for us, because it was always quiet. And we kind of were like, Ah, you know, really like this is this something, you know, we could think about doing and also used to go with new year, just the two of us just and we get a cabin, our holiday cottage, and at New Year, we'd literally just switch off our phones, and spend four or five days either walking into somewhere to walk or if the weather was rubbish, we just, you know, binge on a box set or download a movie or whatever. And it was just that kind of escapism and, you know, just doing doing your own thing. So we kind of have this site that we really loved. We're like, Oh, we could, you know, maybe we could do something like that. And I think we realised we both had had jobs where I was commuting down the M6 every day, and just wasn't really where I wanted to be. And so yeah, we started having all these crazy ideas about whether, could we do it? Could we, you know, set ourselves up, could it be a possibility? And yeah, so that's kind of where it came from when it came. I suppose it starts with the conversations over a bottle of wine of Do you think we could do this? So that eventually, at some point, you go, Oh, we should maybe try? You should maybe give it a go. So yeah, manifested itself over for a long time, yeah.
Nick Purslow:Was there a particular point or particular bottle of wine where you decided, right, Let's just go
Morag Sallabanks:No, I think we were we were at this site. So with it? the site there that we liked, they had caravan pitches, but they also had put on some glamping pods. And so we went with my in laws for a weekend, we were in the caravan and they took a glamping pod. And then yeah, like they loved it as well, they love being away on this site as well. So I suppose that was kind of a tipping point, but are actual decision? It's difficult to say when it was made, but we didn't really make a decision until we decided to make a planning application. And we did that by we spoke to an architect. And we also spoke to Glampitect, and we had them both come out and look at the site, because it's all very well having these ideas, but you need someone in the know, to tell you whether it could actually be a reality or not. So once we've done that, and the architect and Glampitect said, you know, there was no reason why we shouldn't get planning permission, then that started to become a more serious conversation. But you've also got to make sure it's viable. You've got to, you know, during that process where work out that if, you know, putting all the groundwork and paying for your planning application and all those kind of things you've got to make sure it's because fundamentally, it's your job and it's an income. So it's got to pay its way so you have to go through all that process as well. So yeah, the decision was probably made after we are through the planning process. Once we realised we were probably going to get planning that was like a definite yeah, we're definitely doing this now.
Nick Purslow:Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned the importance of really taking taking a lot of consideration and taking your time and making sure you get everything absolutely right before you start because that's one thing we highly recommend to any of our clients or prospective clients, that it is a business decision at the end of the day and you can't just sort of you can't half arse it really, to put it bluntly, you've got to really step back and look at all the costs and really feasibility studies and stuff like that which can help with that sort of thing. But just yeah, you got a treat as a business investment as well as a passion.
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's a huge investment for us. It meant moving home for us. It's you know, so we've seen sold our house and we now live in a studio flat for the moment, hopefully. So it's been a, you know, it's a big investment and a big upheaval. But, you know, life's about taking some kind of risk and doing also, life's too short, you've got to do what you think is right for you. And we also wanted to make sure that when we chose our site, and the kind of philosophy of our site, that it was respectful to our neighbours, who you know, I mean, when I say neighbours, they're not like right next door, because we're on a farm. So they're, you know, but they're close enough. And it changes things for them, it changes that they're neighbours to a farm to now neighbours to a glampsite. So you've got to be respectful to them, respectful to other people in your community, respectful to other business owners who are maybe in the same business, but I feel like we, we've were quite niche. So we've gone down the niche kind of market, because I feel like, although that kind of closes off a lot of the market, I think, for us being specific is quite, quite important for us to have a specific kind of clientele. So we're exclusively for adults. And we're also no dogs, because again, going back to being respectful to our neighbours, our neighbours are farmers and they have livestock and with the best will in the world, you you don't have 100% control over your guests, you know, pets. So that's, that's kind of driven, that thought of being respectful to our neighbours and our community that the adults only and the new dogs has been driven by that really. And maybe it's something we change in the future. But that's that's kind of how we intend to run the business at the moment. I think it's important to be flexible as well. But that's, that's where we're starting.
Nick Purslow:Well, you said a lot that I really want to get into. So I'll start with, well, it is an interesting point actually about neighbours' reactions to glamping plans, because that's a quite a common thing we see with planning permission objections, some of the neighbours can be a bit tricky. Did you incorporate that attitude of being respectful with your neighbours? Did you incorporate that into your application? Or did you do after?
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah, well, there were conversations with the neighbours beforehand. So and we haven't, you know, we haven't had really any issues, we did have one objection that was in writing. But, you know, we can't please everybody all the time. And we do feel we are doing our best to not make it, you know, uncomfortable for any, any neighbours. And so it is really awkward. And especially a few, especially if you do have people who, I can imagine that it's really difficult if you've got people objecting to your plans. I think, farming wise for people who are doing on a farm, you know, with Brexit and all these things, there's no doubt that agriculture and farming is is changing, and people need to diversify. And one thing that farmers have is the land and access to the countryside. And it's really controversial because I am a walker, and I like to go to the countryside, and I like to walk at the weekend. But I'm also a farmer's daughter. So I never walk in fields where there's cows and calves or I'm quite uncomfortable about walking across people's land, I would never cross walk across the middle of a field, I'd always walk around the edge. But fundamentally, people do in Scotland have the right to roam. So it's, I feel like if you if you give people permission and access to the countryside, but kind of point them in the right direction, then surely there's a compromise, you know, to that kind of thing. So it is difficult, because maybe we will encourage people to walk along the public right of ways that haven't really been used as much recently, but I don't know, we've all just got to try and and do what's best for everyone and be as nice to everybody as we can and hope that you know, we can all get on.
Nick Purslow:So have you ever had found the planning process as a whole? It sounds like you've come out of the objection stage of neighbours and stuff relatively unscathed. How do you find the actual planners themselves and the council
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah. It's so difficult. I think I've worked in the private sctor and the public sector. And they, it's so hard because they aren't comparable. They're not they're different animals. And it doesn't matter how you go, well, the counsellor should be, you know, they should act quicker and they should do this better. And they should be more consistent and more reliable. That's what you expect in a business. And fundamentally, the council isn't a business and it, it doesn't work the same way as a business. And so it's frustrating. I feel like it's a bit of a broken system. You know, it doesn't feel consistent, it sometimes doesn't feel fair. But we have come out of it not too bad. I know that there are people who struggled for years and years and years to get planning, and we haven't, we haven't had that. But I do find it a frustrating system, because I also know people who have set up bigger sites than us who didn't have to meet as many conditions as us. And so, yeah, I don't know, I mean, you have, that's why I would always recommend finding someone, I would never go through planning without a professional to help me do it, because it is an absolute minefield. And you just need people to guide you through it and help you unless, unless you're applying for a really simple site. And you have experience of dealing with a counsel, I would just get someone else to do it. That would be it's just, it's too much of a minefield, it's too frustrating. You get too emotionally involved as much as you try your best really not to. So having so obviously, we had Glampitect. And it was great, because we just didn't need to worry about anything, everything was dealt with in a super timely manner. Everything was dealt with really professionally. I mean, there was stuff going on in the background between Glampitect, and our planners that they were sorting out behind the scenes that like I didn't even know about, because I didn't need to know, because that's what we paid them to do. So yeah, so it was great. I don't love the system. And I would endeavour never to use it again if I possible could!
Nick Purslow:So your comments on the inconsistency of the system are really relevant, because we've got a team of planning experts, basically. And there are certain councils that are effectively no go zones, they just are so strict, whereas others are a little bit more lenient, and you've got a better chance of having a successful application. I was actually at the it was called the Eco hotel investment summit the other day, and it was like a remote summit about sustainable investment. And it was quite heavily glamping related. And there was a an expert speaker from Greece, who basically said that, in Greece, they have a completely standardised system, where it's government led, and everyone in that country has to meet certain requirements for for, for all sorts of really, planning to be considered natural glamping site. And it's a lot more standardised. So that sounds like something that they could maybe do with implementing over here, even though obviously, there are pros and cons to every approach. But yeah, it is completely inconsistent over here and depends a lot because planners are humans as well. So you get some nice ones and some not so nice ones.
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah, it just feels like a really inefficient, outdated system, you know, and the inconsistency must be super frustrating for for guys like yourself, you're dealing across local authorities. But I know we had to do, we had a few conditions that we had to employ other people to meet for us. And lots of people said, Oh, but you're in the only local authority that will ever ask for this, you know, other local authorities don't ask for this. And they they worked across the whole of Scotland. So yeah, it is frustrating. And then fundamentally, these things cost you money every time you have to go and get another report or another expert or another design consultant. You know, it's never Well, it's never less than 100 quid an hour is it? So you know, it's just like you just haemorrhage money every time the council asks for another condition. So and we have quite a tricky site and that we have like a little burn running through our site and we're putting a bridge over the burn and honestly, you just could never imagine the paperwork. I mean, so much paperwork that we've actually had to compromise with the council to not put that footbridge in for the moment and just get try and get the site up and running with four pods even though we have permission for eight because the building of a footbridge, just ridiculous amounts of paperwork and reporting and you know, and yet other local authorities wouldn't have asked for it. So it is frustrating.
Nick Purslow:So we gonna go to talking about your actual site now that the sort of exciting part rather than planning. So it sounds like a lot of the inspiration from your site came from this favourite caravan slash glamping site that you stayed at frequently. So how exactly has that sort of inspired it?
Morag Sallabanks:So because we're on the southeast coast of Scotland, we were to be fair, relatively limited about what kind of glamping accommodation we could have. It was really windy here. So our site's quite nice because it is slightly in a valley, but there's no danger that we were having yurts, or bell tents, or anything that wasn't like really solid and tied down a lot. So pods were kind of the best solution for us. And also, as a business, we want it, we want it to be able to operate 365 days of the year, or, you know, at least 11 months of the year, to make it a more viable business. You know, it's very difficult to make all this investment pay if you can only operate for six or eight months of the year. So that's kind of where the pods came into their own because they have underfloor heating, and they're ensuites. So people don't need to go outside at night to, you know, go and use a shower block or toilet block or whatever that was really important to us because that, well, it's a pretty measurable January day here today. And I'm not even sure I'd want to go and use a shower block during the day, evermind at night, so
Nick Purslow:And you're sort of straight into camping territory there as well, aren't you?
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah,yeah. So yeah, that site was kind of an inspiration for us. But the actual glamping structures, pods kind of chose themselves because they had all the advantages that we wanted to be able to offer people for an all year round kind of experience, really. So even if you if you come in the summer, you might hardly spend any time in your pod, because you might be out and about locally. But if you come in January or February and the weather's rubbish, then you've got superfast broadband and underfloor heating, and you can just have a weekend watching Netflix, if that's what you, you know, if that's what you desire, that's fine.
Nick Purslow:So this sounds like you're taking a, you know, it wasn't a decision you made on a whim. you had to, you know, move house. And it's a big, big risk, really to set up your site. So what are your feeling towards that, is that excitement, is it fear? Is it a bit of both?
Morag Sallabanks:I think I'm past the fear. Now that the pods are here, I mean, frustrating as it is that they're not actually wired up. Now that now that the pods are here, and the site is starting to look kind of how we want it to look, I know we're gonna dig it all up again to put the electric cable in. But I'm excited now. And I just, I'm just frustrated now. So you know, I want to be able to get all the nice images started for the website and the social media. And we kind of can't do that yet. Because you know, we're not we're not quite there yet. So kind of champing at the bit. No, but I mean, there was like, when we were trying to meet all the conditions, so we had our planning permission, but we hadn't met the condition so we can start work. I mean, that was, yeah, that was very, that was like, God, you know, are we actually going to make it this is really, really, it was really tough actually, it was really hard. And me and my husband, we were both working full time as well, as you know, trying to do all this. We were 200 miles away. So I tried to do it from a distance as well. So yeah, it was it was, it was really tough. But you don't set out on one of these things to one of these sort of processes and not think it's going to be a roller coaster. It's always going to be a roller coaster. Because as soon as we heard we've got planning permission, we're like, yes, we've got planning permission. And then we saw the list of conditions. And we're just like, so we went from like super high to super low, you know, in the in the space of a day. But we're excited now and we just, we just need to get there and I just need to final push.
Nick Purslow:Well, yeah, as you said earlier, you know, it's a business at the end of the day, there's no business in history that is a walk in the park to set up, you're going to have stressful times. It's gonna be scary and hard. But, you know, as Callum said, in the first episode, when you get that first booking, it'll be an amazing feeling, especially considering all you've gone through to get there.
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah, definitely. I can't wait for that I can't wait to, you know, to finally to get to that. And actually, we've done it because we want to provide high quality accommodation and give people weekends that they love coming for. We'd love to have people who maybe came from Edinburgh or from Newcastle, and who maybe came three or four weekends a year because they know that it can be here in an hour and they get here and they just know where they're going and, you know, that would be great and actually that's really rewarding to be able to give people that break, get the weekend if that you know and, and see happy faces leaving on Sunday or whenever, say no yeah we've had a great weekend and we'll be back. So that's all that's all you want, really.
Nick Purslow:Yeah, if you're if you're looking for, you know, loyal loyal guests who keep coming back and back I imagine customer service is a big side of of your plans. Are you planning to sort of live near the site and meet your guests as they come or are you going to outsource that to hire someone to sort all that sort of thing out?
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah, no, I am. So I'm, I'm not working now. So because I'm, because this is my job now. So we're gonna live really close to site. And I, a lot of people like to be met when they get somewhere on a Friday night or whatever. But I also realised there's a lot of people who don't want to be met, and they just want to get their key out the key safe and probably not see anyone all weekend and just do their own things. So I think there's a fine, you know, there's a, it's nice to be around, and we've got our like a buffet, which is kind of, it's not really a reception, because you don't need to check in at a reception. But you know, there'll be somebody there and like, so that people can come and ask questions or seek advice on where to walk or you know, where to go and get their chippy tea or whatever they want to know. So it's nice to kind of be available, but actually not not be in people's faces. I think. So yeah. I think that's kind of the the plan to be about, but not to not to be too overly keen.
Nick Purslow:Sounds like a good balance. So earlier, you mentioned that you're not able to get really a nice picture of your site just yet whilst you're waiting for the electrics to be sorted out. But you still are managing to market your site on social media, sort of document the journey. How are you finding that?
Morag Sallabanks:Yeah. All right, so at the moment, we're just trying to keep our social media ticking over. It's kind of again, it's all about balance. We're trying not to infiltrate too many people's or, you know, be too consistent and annoy people, because actually, they can't book yet, because we're not open yet. So we just want to keep reminding people that we are going to be here eventually, soon. And so it's just like a little reminder to people, and then I'm not a huge social media fan. So I'm having to force, I'm not really a sharer. So I'm having to kind of force myself to learn how to use it. But I always know that if I get too busy to do it, or I or I'm really uncomfortable doing it, or I need help with it, then I know that it that Glampitect can help me do that, because I've worked with Demi, when we first set up all our, our Facebook and our Instagram. So I know that when we get closer to being open, and we're ready to launch that I'll probably be back in touch with them and say, you know, Right, so we're ready to launch now I need to increase, you know, followers and, and see how we do that. But it's kind of not the right time for us yet. Because we you know, we've got a little bit of work to do before we get there. So it's more of just keeping it in people's conscience that we're that we're here.
Nick Purslow:Yeah, I know how tricky it can be to sort of turn into a turn into a self publicist for your business. Because, I mean, I'm 21, of course I have social media, but I'm not I don't really share much on it. And you sort of do have to become a bit of a self publicist to get to get your message out. I know I have to do it on LinkedIn, I absolutely hate it. But you'll be seeing me sharing this podcast episode and talking about it in a couple of weeks time. What would you say is the best decision you've made so far in the process?
Morag Sallabanks:The best decision, I think, is not to do the planning ourselves. If we tried to do the planning ourselves, we wouldn't we wouldn't have there. we'd still be trying. Yeah, definitely. And it seems like a big investment, but we wouldn't have planning yet if we hadn't got got Glampitect to do it so. And I was really comfortable working with Calum. I met Calum at the Glamping Show in Stoneleigh in 2019. And he was actually the first person that we met as we walked in the door. And it was quite funny, really, because I kind of assumed that everyone at the glamping show would be kind of Stoneleigh or middle England based and actually it was really good because he was like, Oh no, I'm in Edinburgh. I'm only like 45 minutes away from where your potential site is. So that kind of felt like it was, it was almost kind of meant to be. So yeah, definitely the best decision to get to get Glampitect to do our planning application.
Nick Purslow:And you know what I'm going to ask next. What's the worst decision you've made in the process?
Morag Sallabanks:Oh, yeah. I don't know, I was thinking about this earlier. There are things that I, if I was doing it again, I would do differently, but actually nothing. Nothing very major. And nothing really, that's been a mistake, but just stuff that would have made my life easier if I'd done it a different way. I think what I found really difficult is not being able to sit the electrician, and the builder and the plumber, to sit everyone together and come up with a plan. But the reality of this situation is that you can't do that. So you're, it's really difficult to kind of, I don't want to say project manage because I don't feel like I have project managed it. But to get everyone's input into the same place at the same time is really difficult. And I thought that would be easier than it, then it kind of was. So that's what I found really difficult. But I don't really know how I would change that. Because that just is what it is.
Nick Purslow:So you mentioned those, there are things that you would have done differently? Could you enlighten me on some of those, please?
Unknown:Yes. So, um, I think we, we struggled to get people to phone us back about sewage treatment plants, because it was right in the middle of the first lockdown. And I think in hindsight, we might have tried to get more quotes off different companies, I guess you have to realise that you make you make the decisions at the time because they feel like the best decisions and they feel like you know you. So hindsight is great. And so I feel like we maybe should have investigated a different sewage treatment plant providers, I still think we would have come back to where we were to be fair. But that would have been a bit different. And also, I've learned the difference between 160 mil drainage pipe, and 110 mil drainage pipe and flow and all this kind of stuff. And so it will all work. But maybe we could have been a bit more efficient and how we got it to work.
Nick Purslow:I won't ask you more details about sewage treatment plants, I don't think very good audio! So I guess the last thing I'd asked you is, if someone in the same situation as you were a year or two ago, they're thinking about setting up a glamping site. What would your number one piece of advice be to them?
Morag Sallabanks:Go for it. I just think I really do think if you want to do it and you think you can make it pay then look at all your options, find someone that you can work with to do your planning. And, yeah, just go for it. Life's too short. If that's what you want to do, then crack on and do it.
Nick Purslow:And that marks the end of Episode Three. Thank you for listening. There are plenty of lessons to be taken from Morag's experience and I hope some of them are applicable to your glamping business. If you do want the team of experts help you through the planning process, as Morag highly recommends, you can click the link to our website in the description. We can also help in loads of other ways such as assessing the feasibility of your glamping idea or running your websites and marketing. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch. I look forward to you joining us for Episode Four with Moray Donaldson, Glampitect's resident marketing expert, who's joining me to discuss how you can market your glamping site to make it stand out from the crowd. I'll see you soon.